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Author Topic: Why people are skeptical of police-Man shoots himself in chest while arms handcuffed behind his back Back to Topics
RNorm

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:34:36 PM

"Victor White III, the New Iberia man who State Police said shot and killed himself in March while in custody in the backseat of a sheriff's car, was shot in the chest, according to a report from the Iberia Parish Coroner's Office.

The Iberia Parish Coroner's Office has released only the first page of the autopsy report, which contradicts statements initially made by State Police who said White shot himself in the back while handcuffed in the back of a sheriff's unit.

According to the autopsy, the bullet entered White's chest, then perforated his left lung and heart before exiting his armpit area and lacerating his upper arm.

The report rules White's death a suicide.

State Police issued a release in March that said deputies were called to investigate a fight in the 300 block of Lewis Street and found White was allegedly in possession of narcotics. Deputies handcuffed White and took him to the Sheriff's Office for processing, but said White refused to exit the car when they arrived. State Police also said in their initial report that while the deputy was requesting assistance, White produced a handgun and shot himself once in the back."



*Facepalm*
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 11:36:55 AM

Looky here folks, ROTFLNorm disagrees with the coroner's findings, so I guess that means the case closed and everything is solved...

LOL, thankfully, the REAL world doesn't work that way.

And the wheels of justice will continue to slowly move forward, regardless of what the ROTFLNorm "thinks."

There ya go! I fixed it fer ya!

But youse jus' keep beatin' on that drum an' bein' wrong agin, K?

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 11:25:50 AM

"But, hey, we should take the word of people who weren't there, weren't witnesses, and don't have access to any of the evidence, nor the autopsy results."


Looky here folks, the Pilgrim agrees with the coroner's findings, so I guess that means the case closed and everything is solved...

LOL, thankfully, the REAL world doesn't work that way and the family's expert (another well-known and respected pathologist) will do his own autopsy and review and give his own conclusions.

And the wheels of justice will continue to slowly move forward, regardless of what the Pilgrim thinks.

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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 11:22:32 AM

Coroner rules Victor White death suicide

Updated article. One detail, johnnyg1200, I used to live in Louisiana, and unlike most states, when there is a police shooting or charges of corruption or wrong-doing, the police/sheriff's departments do NOT investigate themselves, like they do, in say, Colorado.

The investigation is carried out by the State Police. As it has been in this case.

One theory is that it wasn't a suicide, but that the suspect mishandled the gun and accidentally shot himself.

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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 11:10:30 AM

ROTFLNorm wants to criticize the Coronor's experience, however, once again, it shows that ROTFLNorm didn't read the article at the link I posted below, I quote:

"Dr. Maranda Kles, a forensic expert with the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, reviewed the autopsy and coroner's statement. She explained the bullet entered on the right lateral, or side part, of the chest and exited on the left."

There's more in the article. I'm not SemiSteve, so I won't plagiarize the entire article...

So, apparently, the coroner sent the information to a third party, to have it checked.

At a respected University. And she agreed with the coroner's report.

But, hey, we should take the word of people who weren't there, weren't witnesses, and don't have access to any of the evidence, nor the autopsy results.

Like ROTFLNorm, who is now an expert in the case because he read one biased article on the internet...

Um, ok...

SMH

LOL

*ROTFL*


[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/29/2014 11:11:56 AM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 2:33:40 AM

>>And if the expert retained by the family (who seems to have more experience than the Iberia coroner) reaches a different conclusion, will you still say the family and others are in "denial?<<

That's why I said if. If the two experts conflict I would need more information before agree with the police or agree with the family. Every time someone get shot by police or an armed civilian we hear about what a wonderful person the one who was shot was. He could have been involved in an armed robbery and the family comes out screaming that he just made a mistake and didn't dissever to die. We hear about how he was turning his life around. I don't take anything at face value. I want to hear the evidence. I just got burned in this thread because I took chest to mean center mass. Well that was a slight, but important misrepresentation. I took your OP at face value and got burned.
The press likes to play up things to sensationalize them. We saw that clearly in the Zimmerman case and before that we saw it with a DA and the press with the Duke lacrosse teem. The officer in the St. Louis shooting was convicted by the press and the opportunistic parasites before an investigation was even started.

If and again I say if the dead mans finger prints are found on the gun that killed him, the magazine if it was an semi auto and the unspent shells in the magazine it would be strong evidence that the gun was the dead mans. If the original autopsy is correct and the gun was against his side when fired that would also support the officer's story. If the description of the bullets path is correct then the bullet traveled from the lower side of the chest across the body from side to side and up. For that to happen either the dead man was lying on his side or the officer shot him from beneath and up. Not the way I would want to shoot someone if I was trying to kill someone. If these things are confirmed in the second autopsy then what evidence is there to support the family's claim that the officer shot the individual? There is also the question of why would the offer shoot someone sitting in a police car when he was handcuffed. I won't say it can't or hasn't happened but the officer would have to know how that would look. An officer would have to have an IQ of a radish to do that. But it could be.


As I said I will wait until all the evidence is presented before making a conclusion. But when things are presented in the way this was I start to ask why. The in the chest may be technical correct but is presented in a manner to imply something that is not. Right now all we have is a grieving family's word that it had to be an execution and nothing to back that up. Unlike some I am willing to wait for the second autopsy and the rest of the evidence to be presented. Like I said we had two incidents here. One cost an officer his life and the other cost the suspect his.

If you do a quick search you can fine a number of cases were suspects shoot themselves while in the back of police cars and or handcuffed.
Durham N.C. Jan 2014 Jonesboro A.R. Aug 20102 Huston T.X. Dec 2012

Then you have it go the other way too. Officers have been killed by handcuffed suspects. Texas Sept 2006 Two officers died on May 28 1986 St. Louis Aug 2000

Being handcuffed has not stopped people from escaping, steeling police cars, shooting officers or themselves. Until an investigation is completed we wont know what did or did not happen. But people have killed themselves in the back of police cars before and it will happen again.


[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 8/29/2014 2:37:47 AM EST]
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 10:33:30 PM

"Now if the new pathologist comes to the same conclusion will the family accept the new results or continue the same course of denial?"


Is it "denial" just because you don't accept an "expert" opinion?

Well, just because an "expert" renders an opinion that you don't agree with, doesn't mean you're stupid or not seeking justice. Indeed, there are experts that render opinions on BOTH sides of an issue. Its really boils down to who is able to present their side/facts better.

And if the expert retained by the family (who seems to have more experience than the Iberia coroner) reaches a different conclusion, will you still say the family and others are in "denial?
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 9:47:54 PM


>>>"Victor White III's attorney and family are stepping up their efforts to get national attention on their case. Not only are they asking the U.S. Justice Department to investigate, they say a high profile forensic pathologist has agreed to review the autopsy done in Iberia Parish.<<<

Now if the new pathologist comes to the same conclusion will the family accept the new results or continue the same course of denial? Just because he didn't have a criminal record that we know of doesn't mean he was not in possession of a gun and drugs.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 9:36:03 PM

Instead of my kid can beat up your kid it's become my lawyer can beat up your lawyer or my expert can beat up your expert.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 9:23:28 PM

No problem. When news sources use deceptive language, it's easy to be fooled.

I've come to the point where I take everything with a grain of salt, and look at different sources for different information, and then form my own opinion based on all of the information available.

It seems, in the US, that liberal news outlets don't even try to hide their bias and agenda anymore...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 9:18:25 PM

Thanks for the link. Like most people when I saw the word "chest" I was thinking the sternum area. In medical speak I guess chest can mean any part of the front half of the body covered by the rib cage. In the case with the kid who was shot in the back of the head the theory was the cop missed the gun and the kid was trying to ditch it before he was caught with it. The theory is he was trying to push it between the seat and the seat back. Once he was out of the car and booked it would have been harder to tie the gun to him.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 9:06:42 PM

johnnyg1200, go back towards the bottom of the thread third post in. The coroner specifically explains how the man shot himself. No, he didn't shoot himself in the "chest", he shot himself in the side. The coroner also has the support of an independent forensic scientist. Let me know if you need me to repost the link...

[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/28/2014 9:07:12 PM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 8:54:18 PM

First off let me say I am not familiar with this case, but from what I have read in the OP I would say there is good grounds for a prosecution. As for the frisked by two trained officers who missed a weapon. I has happened. We had a St. Louis officer who was killed by a handcuffed suspect with a weapon the officer missed during the pat down. We also had a handcuffed suspect in the back of the police car who was shot in the back of the head. From the start people were screaming that cop shot him until they found powder burns on the suspects hand and cloths and non on the officer. Even with all the forensic evidence pointing to the kid accidently killing himself there those who still refused to believe. The parents even went so far as to try to sue the officer for wrongful death because he missed the gun.

Back to the case at hand. If the forensics say the bullet entered from the front I think it should be sent to trial.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 8:50:56 PM

When did I ever say your posts were "insulting" me? Moaning and "winning"?

No, in reality, you just continue to make yourself look foolish and uneducated.

No surprise there though.

*ROTFL*
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 8:40:14 PM

LOL, what's sad is how the Pilgrim keeps moaning and winning about how my posts are insulting him, but yet he keeps on reading then every day; rather than simply put me on ignore, like any normal and rational person would do.

That is just dumb; pathetic, actually.

No surprise there tho.

*ROTFL*
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 7:29:26 PM

teacher_tim, I think your idea of culture is a good one. You know what I think is better?

Education. Critical thinking. Skepticism.

ROTFLNorm is a perfect example of today's liberal. Easily duped, easily outraged, and totally incurious when it comes to actual facts and circumstances.

Just go into apoplectic knee-jerk mode, mock anything and everything they don't agree with, and refuse to actually think for themselves.

And, heaven forbid they wait until all the facts are in, they just insist on believing what they want to believe...

It's sad, isn't it?

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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 12:32:29 PM

Sorry that last was a long post, but couldn't resist inserting a little culture here, lol.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 12:31:17 PM

Keeping an open mind about this one; I've seen things hidden in the most disgusting places when working with incarcerated youth.

"They said no word to the landlord. They drank his ale instead.

But they gagged his daughter, and bound her, to the foot of her narrow bed.

Two of them knelt at her casement, with muskets at their side!

There was death at every window;

And hell at one dark window;

For Bess could see, through her casement, the road that he would ride. They had tied her up to attention, with many a sniggering jest.

They had bound a musket beside her, with the muzzle beneath her breast!

“Now, keep good watch!” and they kissed her. She heard the doomed man say—

Look for me by moonlight;

Watch for me by moonlight;

I’ll come to thee by moonlight, though hell should bar the way! She twisted her hands behind her; but all the knots held good!

She writhed her hands till her fingers were wet with sweat or blood!

They stretched and strained in the darkness, and the hours crawled by like years

Till, now, on the stroke of midnight,

Cold, on the stroke of midnight,

The tip of one finger touched it! The trigger at least was hers! The tip of one finger touched it. She strove no more for the rest.

Up, she stood up to attention, with the muzzle beneath her breast.

She would not risk their hearing; she would not strive again;

For the road lay bare in the moonlight;

Blank and bare in the moonlight;

And the blood of her veins, in the moonlight, throbbed to her love’s refrain. Tlot-tlot; tlot-tlot! Had they heard it? The horsehoofs ringing clear;

Tlot-tlot; tlot-tlot, in the distance? Were they deaf that they did not hear?

Down the ribbon of moonlight, over the brow of the hill,

The highwayman came riding—

Riding—riding—

The red coats looked to their priming! She stood up, straight and still. Tlot-tlot, in the frosty silence! Tlot-tlot, in the echoing night!

Nearer he came and nearer. Her face was like a light.

Her eyes grew wide for a moment; she drew one last deep breath,

Then her finger moved in the moonlight,

Her musket shattered the moonlight,

Shattered her breast in the moonlight and warned him—with her death."link to The Highwayman
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 12:17:49 PM

Victor White III family getting private autopsy:

"Victor White III's attorney and family are stepping up their efforts to get national attention on their case. Not only are they asking the U.S. Justice Department to investigate, they say a high profile forensic pathologist has agreed to review the autopsy done in Iberia Parish.

White is the man who was handcuffed in the custody of the Iberia Parish Sheriff's Department when the coroner says he shot himself back in March. The coroner ruled his death a suicide and says the bullet entered his chest on the right side.

White's family says justice has not been served and they will do whatever it takes to move forward with the case.

"He was energetic, full of life. My son was working and preparing to get an apartment and get a car," says Victor White, Sr., the victim's father.

The family continues to reject the coroner's autopsy report, saying their loved one wouldn't have killed himself, and now, they're getting a second opinion. That second opinion is going to come from New York forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden. The family's attorney, Carol Powel Lexing, says they chose Baden because of his track record.

"He did the autopsies for JFK and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He's been involved in a lot of different high profile cases as we saw last week in the Ferguson case," says Powell-Lexing.

Baden did Michael Brown's autopsy in Missouri. Brown was killed by a police officer there which has led to riots in the town.

Powell-Lexing says she and the family do not agree with the information in White's autopsy report and will continue to fight.



"How does a man who's handcuffed behind his back reach and shoot himself in the front of the chest? This report is ludicrous, we are outraged about it. We don't accept it, we rebuke it, we reject it, we denounce it," Powell-Lexing says. " I don't know why the coroner would even think anybody in their right mind would believe this. Mr. White was not Houdini, nor was he David Copperfield."
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 11:37:03 AM

The Pilgrim, grinding himself back into his cesspool.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 10:22:44 AM

Deflect, accuse, ridicule.

But, once again, ROTFLNome is WRONG!

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 5:48:57 PM

"Just. Can't. Admit. You. Were. Wrong."


LOL, oh the Irony of you saying that when you almost never admit you're wrong...

*ROTFL*
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 5:12:22 PM

Just. Can't. Admit. You. Were. Wrong.

Again.

Can you?



[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/27/2014 5:13:17 PM EST]
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 3:43:09 PM

"I suppose, I will be mercilessly flamed, ridiculed, insulted, and of course, ROTFLNorm will guffaw all over himself at me"


LOL, don't flatter yourself Mr. Pilgrim.

For it seems that if I respond to you, then I'm insulting you (your words), so why bother, just so we all can see you moan and whine about how i'm insulting and ridiculing you all over again...

Bleh...no thanks.

*ROTFL*
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 3:27:57 PM

Hidden in the same place as The Pilgrim's tiny brain?
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:58:17 PM

Oh. Where did he hide the gun?

I dunno?

Really, no way to know...

[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/27/2014 12:59:18 PM EST]
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:53:51 PM

I suppose, I will be mercilessly flamed, ridiculed, insulted, and of course, ROTFLNorm will guffaw all over himself at me, but, but, just out of curiosity, and some odd strange sense of needing to know as much about the case as possible before blowing off and foaming at the mouth, I thought I would google the case and see "the rest of the story."

Seems, the coroner is standing by his ruling of "suicide" and has an explanation for how he "shot himself in the chest while his arms handcuffed behind his back."

Darn. And everyone thought this was so simple...

Victor White suicide ruling leads to public scrutiny

"During the investigation the coroner determined his fatal gunshot wound was to his chest. After officially ruling the death a suicide, Coroner Carl Ditch released a statement defending his office’s ruling.

“Although the decedent was handcuffed at the time with his hands to his back, due to his body habitus (type), the pathologist and investigators agree that he would have been able to manipulate the weapon to the point where the contact wound was found,” the statement said.

Dr. Maranda Kles, a forensic expert with the University of Louisiana at Lafayette, reviewed the autopsy and coroner’s statement. She explained the bullet entered on the right lateral, or side part, of the chest and exited on the left."

Yeah, yeah, I know, go ahead, launch into apoplectic knee-jerking, but sorry, I hate to bear the bad news, but:

It looks like ROTFLNorm is wrong again...

When ALL of the facts are discussed.

SMH

*ROTFL*
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:40:20 PM

"Harry Houdini would have trouble shooting himself in the right side of the chest using his left hand with his hands cuffed behind his back."


LOL, I don't even think the great Houdini could even do that.

He was handcuffed behind his back, but pulled a gun out of thin air and then shot himself in the chest/back (doesn't really matter which one)!

And to think some people say this kind of crap with a straight face??
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Daruma
Rookie Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:00:18 AM

Seriously... like saying you were beaten when all the videos before and after encounter show you were just fine. Pffft. Amazing what some will do to hide the truth. The truth always comes out, even if it's slow.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:42:59 AM

Why do they even try to create wild excuses for the shooting of this man? It is all going to come out to prove them wrong eventually, anyway. Do they honestly think they can get away with it?

Police need to wear body cameras, for sure.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:40:19 AM

I read what I could find on this story. I'm Sorry. I do not buy the 2 cops version of what happened.
1) According to the autopsy, the bullet entered White's chest, then perforated his left lung and heart before exiting his armpit area and lacerating his upper arm.

Harry Houdini would have trouble shooting himself in the right side of the chest using his left hand with his hands cuffed behind his back.

2) This suspect was frisked by 2 well trained cops & they did not find any gun.....So where did the gun that he supposedly shot himself come from...the 4th dimension or The Gun Fairy?
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