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Author Topic: Food stamp fraud rampant Back to Topics
COB644

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New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 4:24:59 PM

Americans receiving food stamps were caught selling and bartering their benefits online for art, housing and cash, according to a new federal report that investigates fraud in the nation’s largest nutrition support program.

Complicating the situation is the fact states around the country are having trouble tracking and prosecuting the crimes because their enforcement budgets have been slashed despite the rapidly-rising number of food stamp recipients, according to the Government Accountability Office report.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 12:24:40 PM

Why on earth would unions weigh in on this at all? Is it that "ma & pa" stores aren't unionized?
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 11:50:42 AM

QUOTE ::::: I have experienced 1st hand areas where there are "food" deserts in Chicago...::::


Quote :::ironically labor groups try to discourage some businesses from moving back in...


Disagree completely.

I've personally watched 3 supermarkets in my neighborhood driven out of existence by ghetto slime. I personally witnessed the destruction and theft heaped on those markets. Markets, banks and other businesses are happy to serve low income areas. Money is money. But when the costs of ongoing daily destruction wipes out the profits, these businesses have no choice but to vamoose. I've seen it.

A shame.

No one is trying to discourage business from opening up in the ghetto. They want to. There is money to be made. But not with the costs of dealing with the thugs, destruction, violence, and theft.

This is the reason for food deserts. The low lifes who live there created the desert.

[Edited by: Hemond at 9/10/2014 11:56:27 AM EST]
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 11:37:15 AM

::::::The ONLY fresh fruit or vegetable that cost as much as potato chips was grapes ($3.99 per pound).::::;


I get grapes all the time when they are $2.99 or even $1.99 per pound. When they are $3.99, I don't buy them. Nothing says you have to pay top dollar. Instead, select whatever else is on sale. There is always plenty of top produce offered at great prices.

Cost is not even a factor with healthy eating. Its cheap to eat quality fresh food.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 11:34:06 AM

Hemmond and SE3.5, I agree with you on the points made..

However, I have experienced 1st hand areas where there are "food" deserts in Chicago... Our church goes and feed homeless once a month, where we take food and prepare it for men (women go to another location for women). As men will sometimes do... we forgot to bring drinks to go along with it so I was tasked with finding local business in an area I would not normally shop in... It was packed, but NO healthy options... I believe I was the only person that purchased food without a snap card... This is an issue the city is trying to resolve but it's not always easy... ironically labor groups try to discourage some businesses from moving back in...It's sad....



It's bizarre that even in Florida..., there are food deserts.


[Edited by: reb4 at 9/10/2014 11:37:15 AM EST]
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 9:12:25 AM

"They're fat because healthy food choices cost more."

That is a common myth. I do all the grocery shopping in my household. Yesterday at my grocery store apples were $1.29 per pound. Potato chips $3.99 per pound. The ONLY fresh fruit or vegetable that cost as much as potato chips was grapes ($3.99 per pound).
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 9:08:07 AM

""""""They're fat because healthy food choices cost more."""""


Hardly. They are fat because healthy food choices require more work. I make up deluxe gourmet meals daily from whatever is on sale and looks good in the market.


Its alot less work to open a bag of Dorritos, a frozen microwave pizza , a box of Fig Newtons and a 2 l bottle of Coke.

For a couple of dollars you can make a homemade pizza which is far healthier than the microwave version. But it requires effort.

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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 7:43:45 AM

"Starving? Have you noticed the girth of the typical SNAP recipient. I wouldn't use the term starving. If anything a little starving would be a health benefit."

They're fat because healthy food choices cost more.
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 7:38:12 AM

QUOTE ::::"The TEA crowd would take food from the mouths of needy starving babies if they thought it would reduce their taxes."::::



Starving? Have you noticed the girth of the typical SNAP recipient. I wouldn't use the term starving. If anything a little starving would be a health benefit.



[Edited by: Hemond at 9/10/2014 7:39:52 AM EST]
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 9:33:27 AM

Bigots don't understand the difference between classification and exaggeration.

What the ? do you mean here?

Do you know the difference between the Helping hand & the Hand Out?
I think not.
The helping hand is something that you give freely to someone that deserves & needs it.
The Hand out ends up forcing you by the government to give to everyone. Some that do not deserve it.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 12:08:55 AM

That was a very uncool accusation, Steve. I would have thought better of you than to make such a foolhardy statement. Do you REALLY believe the TEA party wants to starve children? REALLY? These same people you accuse of also being religious cuckoos? I thought they and their churches are the ones setting up food banks and petitioning the government to "block grant" them money to provide direct social services. Bad accusation, my friend. Very bad.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 11:01:11 AM

SE3.5: "I would expect a comment like that to come from the pen of a troll rather than a serious poster."

It did come from the pen of a troll... Er, keyboard...?

Either that, or it came from a local OFA chapter office...

[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 9/8/2014 11:01:47 AM EST]
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 10:48:22 AM

"The TEA crowd would take food from the mouths of needy starving babies if they thought it would reduce their taxes."

I would expect a comment like that to come from the pen of a troll rather than a serious poster.

Color me disappointed.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 10:31:03 AM

SemiSteve: That statement was idiotic.

But then again, most of the things you say are...

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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 9:23:38 AM

The TEA crowd would take food from the mouths of needy starving babies if they thought it would reduce their taxes.
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RAB2010
All-Star Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Sep 7, 2014 10:00:59 AM

This is a surprise?
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2014 3:40:48 PM

"But we have made a permanent underclass of those who ARE able bodied, but just choose to be lazy and live off the public dole."

That may or may not be true. Nevertheless, to make SNAP assistance harder for all persons to get punishes those least able to fend for themselves. If user fraud exists to a particular degree, then =submit data= that demonstrates it exists to that degree and devise a way to address the abuse other than cutting the SNAP program across the board.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2014 1:59:20 PM

Doubt anything you want, but I told you what I thought in a serious fashion. Choose to believe it, or not.

I'm not opposed to offering a helping hand to the truly needy who TEMPORARILY need a helping hand. And it's only moral to take care of those who are TRULY not able bodied. I grant you that. But we have made a permanent underclass of those who ARE able bodied, but just choose to be lazy and live off the public dole. I have ZERO sympathy for them. (Please refer to the writings of our poster MarkJames for some very good examples from his OWN world - people he knows personally)

And I have tried to talk to you in a serious fashion, I even thanked you for ceding the point that the fraud exists. There are many on the far left that even refuse to acknowledge "user" fraud by food stamp recipients, I take it for fear that it will mean program reductions. But we still need to discover and root out that corruption, fraud, waste and abuse. It is the only way to preserve the program and get the aid to those who really do need it. Government cuts are coming. They can't NOT occur as interest on our national debt will overpower our ability to pay for things. Cuts are coming. Better they should occur right away and in a controlled fashion that won't hurt the honest. I'm not worried one whit about the dishonest.

So snipe all you want. To me, it simply shows that you have no defense and no valid argument on the point. I'll leave it to other fair-minded authors here to make their own decisions on the arguments presented.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 1:07:59 PM

"And you sure as "shineola" did try to walk it back by saying, in essence, that the fraud didn't exist because there isn't accurate data. And you further asserted that the anecdotal evidence wasn't accurate."

I didn't say fraud didn't exist. I said that anecdotal evidence cannot be used to extrapolate to a national level the degree to which user fraud occurs. If fraud exists approaching the level you predicted, then supply evidence. You admitted in your first post that such data isn't and can't be included, and then simply injected your own unsubstantiated guess. Why you insist on arguing about guesses is beyond me.




"I'd like to discuss it with you in an adult fashion..."

That you'd stoop to sniping like that is evidence that you have no interest in discussing the matter.



"I'd like to save the program..."

You'll forgive me if I seriously doubt that.



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 9/5/2014 1:12:00 PM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 12:22:19 PM

Marty objected, saying: "I didn't try to walk back anything. You claimed rampant user foodstamp fraud.."--And you sure as "shineola" did try to walk it back by saying, in essence, that the fraud didn't exist because there isn't accurate data. And you further asserted that the anecdotal evidence wasn't accurate.

Again, if you care about the topic, I'd like to discuss it with you in an adult fashion. But when you first say, yeah, we know it happens, then say.. but..but no it's not happening, anecdotal evidence doesn't count, then that doesn't help us advance the cause of saving this program by cutting waste. I'd like to save the program, and make sure that the truly needy get the aid. But the waste needs to be removed. Ignoring the problem doesn't solve the problem.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 3:54:55 PM

"--however, he tried to walk that one back as well, even though I was trying to open a positive dialogue with him on the point."

I didn't try to walk back anything. You claimed rampant user foodstamp fraud approaching 50% and I challenged the claim because there is no data to support it. You never did supply any data that could be used to demonstrate any level of user fraud nationally. If you have the data, then post a link to it. If you don't, then it's time to stop making yourself look foolish and petty.





"The rest of this discussion has been about USERS misusing food stamps. Why don't you go back and re-read, then get back to us on that? How about it, buddy?"

And right after you admitted that such data doesn't exist, you ventured a guess about the rate of user fraud. Sadly, you don't even perceive the silliness of such an unsubstantiated claim.





[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 9/4/2014 3:57:19 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 3:27:32 PM

"Liberals do not understand the difference between A Helping Hand & a Hand Out. They are not the same."

Quit blasting such nonsense. Turn your stereotypes down.

Bigots don't understand the difference between classification and exaggeration.

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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 10:35:34 AM

Before we banned them from our store we used to have several regulars at one store that would purchase things with their EBT cards, then give the food products to friends/relatives that attempted to return them for store credit to buy non food items - cigarettes, beer, scratch-offs, prepaid cell phone minutes, prepaid credit cards etc.

Their partners in crime would get real nasty when we wouldn't give them credit, so we banned them as well.

.

.IMO if you can afford to buy cigarettes, beer and/or scratch-offs a daily basis you shouldn't qualify for foodstamps.



[Edited by: MarkJames at 9/4/2014 10:36:02 AM EST]
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 9:41:12 AM

""They've been living like this for 3 generations. ""
Poor stupid perpetuating more poor.

Liberals do not understand the difference between A Helping Hand & a Hand Out. They are not the same.

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MarkJames
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 8:53:51 AM

<<Mark, some members have been wondering if all the stories you tell are true.....but that last example is way too strange to be fiction!>>

.

.The household I mentioned was living without heat and hot water for months since they sold the kerosene paid for by HEAP and Emergency HEAP grants to pay for non necessities.

They'd sell/trade food stamp benefits to buy or barter for several gallons of kerosene at a time.

Often the people they were bartering with were other trailer park residents selling their benefits - food, kerosene, heating oil, propane etc.

When they owned a mobile home they received a new mobile home furnace paid or by the taxpayers ($3,000 installed) which they sold to another trailer park resident for $400 when they were desperate for cash.

I felt sorry for their 5 kids and had dozens of used Miller mobile home furnaces, so I offered to "loan" them a mobile home furnace.

When one of my techs showed up to install the furnace, they failed to tell me that they had also sold their oil tank and fuel lines.

Before they lost their mobile home to repossession, they sold the mobile home furnace and oil tank I "loaned" them.

I gave them their mobile home free and clear, then they used it as collateral for a high interest loan which they used to buy a jacked up 4X4 truck, rims, tires and other modifications.

They sold it, blew the money and couldn't afford their loan payment and lot rent.

They've been living like this for 3 generations.

[Edited by: MarkJames at 9/4/2014 8:54:14 AM EST]
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 7:16:53 AM

.
< "As part of its increased focus on enforcement, the U.S.D.A. last year sent letters to Craigslist, eBay, Facebook and Twitter asking for help policing food stamp trafficking." " >

. You don't send letters, you send officers out to BUST the criminals... that also creates JOBS for officers... a double win...
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:49:22 AM

Oh, and Steve, even your friend Marty said: "Yeah I got it. Food stamp fraud on the part of individuals is rampant but you can't and don't have any data (other than anecdotal data) to quantify it. It's one of those things that you just know is true."

--however, he tried to walk that one back as well, even though I was trying to open a positive dialogue with him on the point.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:46:28 AM

SemiSteve - did you follow this discussion from the beginning? The point is that the link that shows supposedly low levels of fraud in foodstamps is only addressing fraud from providers of food stamps - stores. The rest of this discussion has been about USERS misusing food stamps. Why don't you go back and re-read, then get back to us on that? How about it, buddy?
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 2:59:07 PM

From Marty's link: "In FY 2012, over 100 analysts and investigators reviewed over 15,000 stores and conducted nearly 4,500 undercover investigations. Close to 1,400 stores were permanently disqualified for trafficking and nearly 700 stores were sanctioned for other violations such as the sale of ineligible items."

AC-302: " I hate to say it, but there are some on the left that won't even acknowledge that there might be a potential for a problem."

Like who? Got any quotes to back that up?
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 10:40:59 AM

And my point to some of the far lefties here is that the anecdotal evidence is just too strong not to be believed. MarkJames merely provides another such story from his own extended family. There are too many such stories out there for them all to be lies. The program is obviously not functioning as intended, and could be cut back significantly. Beer and cigs aren't "necessities".
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KansasGunman
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 8:44:13 AM

"They blew much of the $300 on cigarettes, beer, a new smart phone, 2 $45 prepaid phone cards and one $35 prepaid phone card."

.....

As the saying goes: "sometimes you just can't fix stupid"

Which also applies to lazy...unfortunately Society continues putting up with it and pays out seemi8ngly without question.

My fix starts with mandatory permanent sterilization if you wish to be in the Welfare System or Food Stamp Program.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 8:33:58 AM

Mark, some members have been wondering if all the stories you tell are true.....but that last example is way too strange to be fiction!
 ↓ ↓ ↓
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 7:33:59 AM

One of my cousins and their family was being evicted September 1st, so they pre-sold $900 of food-stamp benefits for $300 since they were desperate.

They blew much of the $300 on cigarettes, beer, a new smart phone, 2 $45 prepaid phone cards and one $35 prepaid phone card.

Now they have no food or cash benefits on their EBT card, so they're hitting up several food banks and food/goods distribution points.

Luckily DSS put them up in a motel with free breakfast, snacks and coffee, plus school started, so their kids get breakfast and lunch 5 days per week.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 12:52:22 PM

AC and sgm,
I agree; ALL government "benefits" programs need to be more closely monitored. Everything from Dept. of Ag subsidies going to people who live in Georgetown [DC] to millions to figure out why water puts out fires, not to mention fat lesbians.

I can't help but think that the most bang for the buck would be MedicAid/Care, military spending for "weapons systems", SNAP retailers and "disabled" workers who aren't.

As I've said before, the only way to get people OFF the dole is to make it increasingly uncomfortable to be there. Stop all CoLA's now and then reduce the amount paid out by 5% each year. In twenty years, there is no benefit to an individual. The same thing applies to adding children to existing programs. You get paid for whatever children you currently have or are pregnant with, plus one "ooops". Any additions to that number will NOT result in additional benefits. Any exceptions must be reviewed by a real person in the recipient's home.
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 12:36:44 PM

Took my bud grocery shopping yesterday. He's able bodied yet refuses to get a job. He gets $200 in food stamps. He spent $100 yesterday and will cash in the balance at 50% in order to get cigarettes.
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 12:26:00 PM

sgm said: "Interesting that conservatives get so worked up over food stamp fraud, where the perpetrators are a mix of poor people and grocery retailers, compared to how little you hear them whine about medicare/medicaid fraud, where the perpetrators are almost solely well-to-do providers. Wonder if there's any connection, hmm."

--sgm - I've said this very same thing here on these boards - that Medicare/Medicaid fraud is also rampant and needs to be eliminated and vigorously prosecuted.

I've seen estimates of medicare/medicaid fraud that suggest figures even higher than that, in addition to the REAL cost of administering the program to be one dollar in every three spent. You are absolutely right, that this is another program that needs to be monitored and apparently can be cut back significantly. Here are some great opportunities for our government to shrink it's spending.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 8:54:23 AM

Fly: "Maybe both areas (medical fraud and food stamp fraud) just emphasizes that the govt shouldn't be involved in these things at all. It just proves once more that the govt is overstepping its bounds and getting involved in areas that were never intended for it."

Ding Ding Ding Ding !!!! We have the winning post right there!
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 6:25:24 PM

Marty try this on for size -----

"But once more, here people are talking about food stamp (for lack of a better name) fraud."

Now if that isnt clear enough for you I dont know what is.

Either you have lost the desire to understand plain English or you just wish to derail a topic and continue interminable arguments. But maybe its really both. Whatever --- enjoy your day.Hey I know what it really is. Someone rattled your liberal foundations when they said - " Maybe both areas (medical fraud and food stamp fraud) just emphasizes that the govt shouldn't be involved in these things at all. It just proves once more that the govt is overstepping its bounds and getting involved in areas that were never intended for it."

Yep that has to be it. Instead of attempting to discuss the issues identified in the topic- you know fraud specifically food stamps - you got all upset that someone would even think that maybe the government is not supposed to be the source of largesse that liberals desire it to be.

Maybe it bothers you that people actually think that a bloated overarching govt filled with waste and fraud is not a good thing and that the govt should mind its own business.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 5:09:45 PM

"If you wish to start a topic on criminal behavior in the medical area by all means have at it. But here, in this topic, I was under the understanding that the subject was fraud and theft in the food stamp area." --Flyboy 4:20 PM

"No SGM I dont really differentiate between fraud types." --Flyboy 5:01 PM

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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 5:01:13 PM

No SGM I dont really differentiate between fraud types. Its all about the same to me - theft by deception.

So I guess in my case your point is moot.

But once more, here people are talking about food stamp (for lack of a better name) fraud.

Maybe both areas (medical fraud and food stamp fraud) just emphasizes that the govt shouldn't be involved in these things at all. It just proves once more that the govt is overstepping its bounds and getting involved in areas that were never intended for it.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 4:39:50 PM

<<SGM and Marty - why are you trying to deflect the question? If you wish to start a topic on criminal behavior in the medical area by all means have at it. But here, in this topic, I was under the understanding that the subject was fraud and theft in the food stamp area.>>

My point was that sources of fraud that bother conservative are the usual suspects: the poor, the dirty sneaky poor. Why there is never any consternation over the rich thieves--who are always the "best people", Donald Trump would be sure to point out--who steal much larger amounts of money with impunity? And of course, on the rare occasions when those people get caught, it's lighter sentencing in nicer prisons. Jean Val Jean would understand.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 4:20:29 PM

SGM and Marty - why are you trying to deflect the question? If you wish to start a topic on criminal behavior in the medical area by all means have at it. But here, in this topic, I was under the understanding that the subject was fraud and theft in the food stamp area.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 2:10:14 PM

"So will you also criticize The Atlantic for making an uninformed guess? Or is that OK since you "like" what they have to say?"

I criticized your post because I happened to read it. Shall I actively seek out all articles on the topic and criticize those that make uninformed guesses just so you won't feel lonely?




"Interesting that conservatives get so worked up over food stamp fraud, where the perpetrators are a mix of poor people and grocery retailers, compared to how little you hear them whine about medicare/medicaid fraud, where the perpetrators are almost solely well-to-do providers. Wonder if there's any connection, hmm."

Now there's someone who understands looking higher up the income chain.



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 9/1/2014 2:10:39 PM EST]
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 1:39:26 PM

"Although the sheer size of the program means that more than $3 billion is lost to trafficking, fraud and overpayments each year, the rate is less than other government programs, according to federal audits. The Government Accountability Office has estimated that Medicare and Medicaid lose nearly 10 percent to fraud."

Interesting that conservatives get so worked up over food stamp fraud, where the perpetrators are a mix of poor people and grocery retailers, compared to how little you hear them whine about medicare/medicaid fraud, where the perpetrators are almost solely well-to-do providers. Wonder if there's any connection, hmm.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 1:27:23 PM

Marty - I did a little digging this morning:

From the NYT website, article posted: 12/19/2013

(This is only a clip from it. Some of the article parrots the USDA website's fraud claims)

"Officially, the amount of money lost to underground trafficking is estimated to be 1.3 percent annually. That is down from more than 4 percent in the 1990s when paper coupons had not yet been replaced by electronic benefit cards, called E.B.T.'s, in the program that is formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP.
Include erroneous payments to recipients because of errors on the part of the government or outright lying on applications, and the overall loss to the food stamp program is about 4.07 percent, according to the Department of Agriculture."

"Although the sheer size of the program means that more than $3 billion is lost to trafficking, fraud and overpayments each year, the rate is less than other government programs, according to federal audits. The Government Accountability Office has estimated that Medicare and Medicaid lose nearly 10 percent to fraud."

"The digital age has helped investigators track fraud, but it has also opened up new ways to sell food stamps.
“Anybody got food stamps for sell? Lol really tho. I’ll buy them off you EVERY month starting now lol I’ll give you at least $100 every time,” wrote someone who uses the Twitter name @TroubleManHam.
A reporter’s call to a number on Craigslist brought an offer for a shopping trip with a man in the Atlanta area who was willing to pay $100 to use $200 worth of food stamps. He even suggested the stores: Costco and Kroger. As part of its increased focus on enforcement, the U.S.D.A. last year sent letters to Craigslist, eBay, Facebook and Twitter asking for help policing food stamp trafficking."

--And here's a comment on the article left by someone:

"Siobhan New York Verified

"I happen to think this is small potatoes, and they should spend a lot more time going after the banisters.

"But I also have a good friend who grew up poor, and still has family that is. She's worked very hard to educate herself and get a good job. She's a social liberal / Democrat--but she also says the amount of fraud and abuse of the type described in this article is enormous, and she has very little sympathy for it. She also says most people don't have a clue how rampant it is."

Now, in all fairness, here's another one from The Atlantic.

"The majority of food-stamp fraud appears to be generated by supermarkets “trafficking” in the food stamps. Beneficiaries intentionally ripping off the taxpayers account for perhaps 1 percent of payments."

--And again, they are a shill for the left on this one. Their "guess" is 1%, but they have NO proof of any kind, either. So will you also criticize The Atlantic for making an uninformed guess? Or is that OK since you "like" what they have to say?

There's also an article posted on huffington post 5/24/12 on food stamp fraud. Read it, or not. But it would appear the "official" fraud rate on food stamp USERS (not businesses) is listed at 4.07, revised down from 4.7%, near as I can figure from the articles. But again, the rate of INDIVIDUALS trafficking food stamps is apparently GREATLY underreported. Is it's 3 times the official rate, that's still 12% of the program. And if it's 10X - that would be almost 40%. The problem is that it's hard to catch individual fraud (people selling their stamps/cards/ card values to another individual for cash money. I'll look for some additional articles. Why not you, too, and let's compare notes here?
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 3:39:38 PM

.
< AC302: "However, I thing grocers and other providers ought to report the names/numbers of people it suspects are committing fraud." >

. LOL! THOSE are the biggest abusers! Around here supermarkets and other stores are getting busted for buying $$Millions in food stamps for 50c on the dollar (going rate in most places) and turning them in... gov't finds out when they have more food stamps reimbursement than they ever bought in retail value food supplies...

. Do a search for "supermarket food stamp fraud" and get a million pages of news reports...

+ Supermarket CHAIN $18Million Food Stamp Fraud +
.


[Edited by: BuzzLOL at 8/31/2014 3:45:51 PM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 2:50:14 PM

"Your response is typical of the liberal Dem left. "

Gee, all I asked was for data to support your wild claim of rampant user food stamp fraud. It's not my fault you can't support your own claim.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 1:56:32 PM

Well, Marty. It's a free country. Feel free to continue to stick your head in the sand about a problem that is both costly and corrupt. Your response is typical of the liberal Dem left. Acknowledge the problem to a degree, then walk it back and claim no such problem exists. Obama did the same thing in his book "Audacity of Hope". And I get why you would do this. As I said, by admitting fraud, that's admitting to at least that degree that 1) the program is a FAILURE; 2) the program needs reform and 3) that the program could be CUT by the amount of money equivalent to the fraud $. Liberals, such as yourself, don't want to open that can of worms. And it's obvious. Because if they do, they'll "cheese off" the poor who are receiving these handouts. And if they fracture those votes, then the Democrats can't win elections in most places, especially on the national scene. It's not about the good of the individual, it's about the good of your party. I get it. If it were about the good of the individual, you'd be all over fixing the problem, and even getting the illegal aliens off of foodstamps (leaving more for deserving citizens).

As to higher income, explain for everyone here EXACTLY what you mean. You claim that "rich" people are benefiting from the foodstamp programs? Great. Explain how. Or is this one of your "wealth envy" rants - blaming anyone who is rich for all the ills of society?

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 9:26:34 PM

"The anecdotal evidence is WAY too strong."

Anecdotal evidence is insufficient to substantiate the claim that user fraud is "rampant" and it's insufficient to substantiate your claim that the rate of user fraud approaches 50%.



"Well, earlier you agreed it was a problem."

No, I didn't. I acknowledged that you claimed a problem exists. If it exists to an appreciable degree, then you should be able to supply evidence on a national scale.




"There sure is a way to extrapolate. It's called "sampling". Pollsters do it all the time."

Earlier you said "But the corruption figures you quote cannot and do not include individuals selling or bartering food stamps." Make up your mind.

I'd like to see the raw data from the sampling you did to substantiate your claim that user fraud approaches 50%.




"There are people who are beyond the income requirements for food stamps, who are illegally collecting."

Those aren't the people I have in mind. Look even higher up on the income chain and think outside the box labeled "food stamps."

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 8/30/2014 9:27:36 PM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 8:13:45 PM

Marty claimed: "No. I'm saying that you don't know that rampant user fraud exists anywhere except in your imagination."

--The anecdotal evidence is WAY too strong. People even selling foodstamps (or EBT credit) on craigslist. That's pretty telling. IMHO, this problem needs to be studied and investigated. Think about that for a sec. The amount that is being abused could either be redistributed, or it could by wittled away, leaving real "meat" in the program to serve the people who need it, as intended.

Marty then whined: "I wouldn't be so silly as to venture a guess about the extent of an imaginary problem, not having anything on which to base it."

--Well, earlier you agreed it was a problem. So is it a problem, or isn't it? Or are you now contradicting yourself?

Marty further went on and said: " If I were to look all day for user fraud and document all the times I might see it happening, there is no way to extrapolate that on a national level."

--There sure is a way to extrapolate. It's called "sampling". Pollsters do it all the time. They could take a pretty good guess based on taking a hard look at a select group of people's habits, then multiply by the number of recipients. That would be an accurate estimate. Pollsters, statisticians and actuaries use these methods all the time to figure out the "average" of whatever they're trying to measure.

And Marty further went on: "If you're intent on looking for fraud, look higher up the income chain."

--And I don't disagree with that statement either. There are people who are beyond the income requirements for food stamps, who are illegally collecting. I don't believe that there are folks 'getting rich' off of food stamp fraud in any organized way, not as individuals. Now, again, are supermarkets behaving dishonestly? Sure, that was the point of that article - provider fraud. And that needs to be stamped out, as well. No argument from me at all - you are absolutely right. But we also need to work on the other end -user fraud. And I agree that we need to VIGOROUSLY investigate both suppliers and users to prevent fraudulent use of the people's money. By all means, anyone caught using the foodstamps illegally should not only be kicked off the program, but should also be obliged to pay every penny of it back. And the program should include random sampling of purchases/card use.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 3:10:41 PM

Marty sez - "I wouldn't be so silly as to venture a guess about the extent of an imaginary problem, not having anything on which to base it."

So does this also mean you will stop spouting off on gun ownership adn cntrol since you know so little about it? <rimshot>
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