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Author Topic: New TRAYVON MARTIN - Here We Go Again! Back to Topics
AnotherOne

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 12:29:47 PM



Showing their sympathy for a young man being killed!

More heartbroken sympathy!

I haven't followed the story closely enough to know what I think about the actual death of the young man and who was in the right or the wrong.

But I do know that this type of nonsense has NOTHING to do with his death. It is simply an excuse by lawless thugs to cause mayhem and destruction and to use any excuse to steal. It is an illustration of a breakdown in society and morality. It is the logical result of our out of control liberal influence on society.

It is time to call this what it is - "WRONG"!

Let's see if the progressive libs around here have the decency and honesty to do just that.

Or will they predictably use this as a typical Obama diversion form his disastrous presidency just before the election to rile people up and to divide people and pit one American against another American for political advantage int he election.

Trayvon Martin family attorney to represent slain Missouri teen

Vandalism, looting after vigil for Missouri man

For all I know, there may be reason to be upset with the police - OR with this young man.

I also know that it is NO excuse for riots and stealing.

Or for Obama to use for political points to deflect attention from his gross negligence and incompetence in office.

REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 10:24:29 PM



There was a murder overnight at a rest stop along I94 just outside Minneapolis.

2 young people from Kennewick, WA.

The 23 year old was shot through the head by the 18 year old (a high school senior). no motive is known/has been announced. One report says the 23 year old had struggled with drugs but 'had been doing much better' lately.

The 18 year old then led police on a high speed chase at over 115 mph across the Twin Cities until he crashed his suv.

He got out, brandished a weapon at police at which time the police shot and killed him.

The pictures being shown of the victim show a young white man. They have not been showing pictures yet of the shooter.

If he is white, probably no story.

If he is black, here we go again.

No more details released until tomorrow.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 10:08:11 PM

He was being an absolute jerk and was trying to escalate a situation to become violent. The cops should have done more than they did. I'm not a cop and I don't know what the rules/laws are where this took place but he sure was trying to escalate it.
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 8:48:01 PM

Just another day out on the streets

But this one ends up happy!
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 5:35:33 PM

jdhelm said: "is the shopper (if he paid for the items) being a jerk"

An absolute jerk! They should have shot him just to clean out the gene pool! ;)
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 5:15:17 PM

SE3.5: <<<"I do know that the best way to get a trial by jury is to surrender peacefully and invoke your right to a lawyer.">>>

--Mr. Brown freely opted out of that scenario.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 4:32:33 PM

You be the judge on this video, is the shopper (if he paid for the items) being a jerk or is he "mike Browning" the cop?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 1:58:11 PM

"I do know that the best way to get a trial by jury is to surrender peacefully and invoke your right to a lawyer."

True.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 1:57:34 PM

"He was an attempted murderer and had undoubtedly had MANY chances to change his ways."

Kids who break the law aren't typically equipped to make the changes needed until a few years down the road. Prison is good for some of them....

Anybody who expects a kid to behave like an adult in said situations is ignoring the reality of the situation.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 1:56:41 PM

"What they deserved, at worst, was a trial by jury"

I don't know anything about the incidents in Fly's link. I do know that the best way to get a trial by jury is to surrender peacefully and invoke your right to a lawyer.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 1:50:57 PM



Weaslespit, "What they deserved, at worst, was a trial by jury and a chance to change their ways..."

He was an attempted murderer and had undoubtedly had MANY chances to change his ways.

This was not his first Thug Rodeo!

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 1:47:42 PM

"Why is it these people cant understand that their kid was a criminal and got what they deserved?"

What they deserved, at worst, was a trial by jury and a chance to change their ways...
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2014 12:21:40 PM

Searching for the Next Michael Brown
.
.
.
Why is it these people cant understand that their kid was a criminal and got what they deserved? Are they blind to reality?
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 11:29:59 PM

Thug, short for Thuggee actually originated in a criminal/murderous cult in India. I suppose you liberals would say it's still about color.

Personally, I use thug to describe secret police for various dictators like Castro, Kim, Maduro, Putin, etc.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:23:55 AM

MiddletownMarty said: "Why then do so many use the term exclusively in the context of a black suspect?"

They don't. That's only in your imagination.

Perhaps the lopsided number of incidences of black thuggery over white thuggery clouds your perception of "exclusivity", but that's not the fault of people who are calling thuggery thuggery.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:19:11 AM

"I'm curious. Why in the world was Eric Garner on the street after being arrested 30+ times?"

Possibly because prosecutors were less enthusiastic than the mayor and police chief about cracking down on loosies.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:18:33 AM

"The important thing here is that there are thugs of all ethnicity."

Why then do so many use the term exclusively in the context of a black suspect? (Until someone points out they're doing that, and they temporarily apply the term to white suspects purely for show.)
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2ovrpar
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:03:32 AM

I'm curious. Why in the world was Eric Garner on the street after being arrested 30+ times?
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 7:26:43 AM

EZExit said: "The important thing here is that there are thugs of all ethnicity."

Absolutely. It's not the skin color that causes thuggery and criminality, it's the culture. In America, it's a culture of gang-bangers and entitlement mentality that produces the high number of black criminals. And it's people like Sharpton, Jackson, Holder and Obozo who have promoted that entitlement mentality and who have only made things worse.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 1:45:00 AM

The important thing here is that there are thugs of all ethnicity. Police should treat all thugs accordingly, and should not be viewed as being "racist" just because in any given case the thug's ethnicity differs from that of the cop. Trying to apply equal opportunity incarceration simply will not work, at least until criminality matches ethnicity in kind.

If the officer executes their responsibilities equally based on criminal acts, they should be held in high regard. Creating racism out of thin air is getting to be quite tiresome.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 1:35:44 AM


flyboyUT, "Now I am not sure just how yo wish to look at this but isnt time we stopped saying that its the fault of cops or an unfair DOJ or whatever and start saying that its more thn likely the fault of the people involved who choose to break the law."

It's not just here

"Around the world, wherever people of African descent are found in appreciable numbers, crime rates tend to be high.

Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

The high rates of black violent crime are undeniable, although many persons will, for political purposes, deny the obvious. For those who live in the real world, it is important to find the underlying reasons for this long-lived and world-wide epidemic of violent crime, and discover humane ways of dealing with it."

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 3:30:09 PM

I'll retract my previous comment. I was thinking of the death by hammer incident.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 3:25:48 PM

I dont doubt that the story was posted as an example of racial crime Marty. As originally presented it was. Now that the truth is know it is still an example of racial crime as far as I'm concerned.

What that woman did was wrong and was an attempt to foment race based hatred and could very easily have resulted in someone being unjustly hurt or killed. I don't care what the excuse is - that is wrong regardless of who does it or what phony excuse they have.

Racism is always wrong - IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO DOES IT!!!!!!!!!!!
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 12:57:48 PM

MiddletownMarty said: "If the black against black murder rate manifests a black pathology stemming from the breakdown of the black family, why isn't it also true that the white against white murder rate manifests a white pathology stemming from the breakdown of the white family"

Most whites haven't been trained by birth to blame someone else for their problems. Too many blacks have bought into the lie that they suffer inequities and problems because of slavery and the white man keeping them down. That gives rise to what we're seeing today: the Knockout Game and innocent non-blacks being burned alive for no reason. That lie is being kept fat and happy by liberals who think they're doing blacks a favor by supplying them with never-ending excuses for their violent behavior.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 12:38:20 PM

"This kind of race based crime should be punished severely in my estimation. This person was just trying to foment racial hatred and strife."

If I remember correctly, one of your buds on this board posted that story not too long ago and presented it as an example of what's wrong with black youth of today.



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 12/16/2014 12:47:57 PM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 12:33:33 PM

" But I fail to see the dishonesty alleged by refreshing your memory of a posted link and what it says - you seem to have forgotten it or discounted it because it did not agree with your worldview. "

My memory isn't so faulty that I cannot recall an article I have already read. In fact, I made arguments against a number of points the author made. It's not that I discounted the article; it's that I disagreed with a great deal of it on the basis of facts which the author did not see fit to consider.



"Now I am not sure just how yo wish to look at this but isnt time we stopped saying that its the fault of cops or an unfair DOJ or whatever and start saying that its more thn likely the fault of the people involved who choose to break the law."

I said that cops and an unfair justice system are partly at fault, and that there are other contributing factors. There's a reason behind all behavior, even illegal behavior. Let's look at all the possibilities and not limit the options.


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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 12:20:21 PM

This kind of race based crime should be punished severely in my estimation. This person was just trying to foment racial hatred and strife.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 11:45:59 AM

Marty I do know that person well - that is not a falsehood at all. I am glad you caught the fun. But I fail to see the dishonesty alleged by refreshing your memory of a posted link and what it says - you seem to have forgotten it or discounted it because it did not agree with your worldview.

But if you have provided information ie red flags do me a favor - refresh my memory if you would. Marty this links shows murder victims by race in 2013 There were 5537 white victims and 6261 Black victims.

Marty this table shows murder offender by race in 2013 There were 4396 whites and 5375 blacks listed as murder offenders.

Now I am not sure just how yo wish to look at this but isnt time we stopped saying that its the fault of cops or an unfair DOJ or whatever and start saying that its more thn likely the fault of the people involved who choose to break the law. I could dig up data on many other types of cirme but yo can do it too.

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 11:14:05 AM

"you asking for a link to buttress someone elses arguments is a hilarious joke right - you who cant seem to find "nonbiased" links to your unsupported statements saying that is hilarious."

Translation: There are no data to support the claim.




"But to assist you - this was posted by someone I know well - and it is directly from a linked article of that person ----"

Reposting text from your own linked article as though it had been posted by someone else is dishonest.




"But we might consider why this is happening and why it seems to be increasing."

I have provided a number of relevant contributing factors.. red flags if you will... to help explain this, but you will have nothing to do with them. You'd rather say they are from biased sources because you disagree with what they indicate.





[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 12/16/2014 11:15:35 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 10:53:49 AM

Marty ---- you asking for a link to buttress someone elses arguments is a hilarious joke right - you who cant seem to find "nonbiased" links to your unsupported statements saying that is hilarious.

But to assist you - this was posted by someone I know well - and it is directly from a linked article of that person ----

>>>Today blacks are about 13 percent of the population and continue to be responsible for an inordinate amount of crime. Between 1976 and 2005 blacks com­mitted more than half of all murders in the United States. The black arrest rate for most offenses — including robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes — is still typically two to three times their representation in the population. Blacks as a group are also overrepresented among persons arrested for so-called white-collar crimes such as counterfeiting, fraud and embezzlement. And blaming this decades-long, well-documented trend on racist cops, prosecutors, judges, sentencing guidelines and drug laws doesn’t cut it as a plausible explanation.

“Even allowing for the existence of discrimination in the criminal justice system, the higher rates of crime among black Americans cannot be denied,” wrote James Q. Wilson and Richard Herrnstein in their classic 1985 study, “Crime and Human Nature.” <<<

Now Marty we will leave it as an exercise for the student to look at the concept of a small percentage of a group being responsible for over half the murders and what that really says about the proclivity to violence that small group has. That does not deal at all with the other antisocial activity such as gang activity and so called minor crimes such as theft, robbery, drug dealing/consumption and a host of other things that this small group engages in out of all proportion to the size of the portion of the total population they are.

But we might consider why this is happening and why it seems to be increasing. What policies as a society/govt have we done in say the last 50 or so years that have impacted this concern? What is causing it Marty?

There is no way anyone will convince me that it is a racial thing - its not - its a societal thing.

No race has a proclivity to crime or anything else - its not due to race. It is due to other factors - it behooves us to examine the real causes and try to make real honest changes that will start to rectify this situation - unless of course we like it.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 9:59:21 AM

"MTMarty, 'percentages' give me NO trouble whatsoever."

I'm glad you found my instruction valuable.



"But it is disappointing to see you use them to try to confuse people."

Complex issues are unapproachable to those who believe there must be simple answers for everything.



"The murder rate among blacks is over FOUR TIMES the murder rate among whites."

Is it? Please provide a link to the data supporting that conclusion.


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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 8:38:47 AM



MTMarty, 'percentages' give me NO trouble whatsoever.

But it is disappointing to see you use them to try to confuse people.

MTMarty, "If the black against black murder rate manifests a black pathology stemming from the breakdown of the black family, why isn't it also true that the white against white murder rate manifests a white pathology stemming from the breakdown of the white family?"

Because you either fail to understand or you are purposely dishonest in your claims.

Deal with flyboy's FACTS!

The murder rate among blacks is over FOUR TIMES the murder rate among whites.

How do you account for that, MTMarty?

A murder rate FOUR TIMES as high among blacks as among whites!

And yes, I do decry the murder rate among whites as well. A lot of it can be laid directly at the feet of liberals who have destroyed poor white families and especially black families!@

We will wait for you to edumacate us, MTMarty - after you take a course in math!

SMH



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 12/16/2014 8:40:44 AM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2014 8:33:43 AM

Do percentages give you trouble? Don't be embarrassed; they give lots of people trouble and it's a good sign that you admit it. Just remember that percent means "out of 100". So when I say "84% of white homicide victims are murdered by whites" it means that 84 of every 100 murders committed against white victims are done by white perpetrators.

I fail to grasp why using percentages obfuscates things. We are... or were... discussing "black criminal behavior, which is one manifestation of a black pathology that ultimately stems from the breakdown of the black family"... at least until it more conveniently served someone's agenda to discuss the overall murder rate as opposed to the black on black murder rate as compared to the white on white murder rate.

If the black against black murder rate manifests a black pathology stemming from the breakdown of the black family, why isn't it also true that the white against white murder rate manifests a white pathology stemming from the breakdown of the white family, especially considering that the difference in percentages is within the usual margin of error for such measurements (+-5%)???





[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 12/16/2014 8:36:27 AM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 8:24:13 PM



MTMarty, "84% of white homicide victims are murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims are murdered by blacks. Murder is an equal opportunity crime, for the most part. Yet you choose to select statistics that do not give a true picture of reality."

Nice attempt to obfuscate with percentages.

Maybe you should take a math class.

Then once you take that math class, deal honestly with flyboy's figures of "There is a reason that something like 13% of the population is of that heritage and yet they commit somewhere in excess of 50% of the murders in the US."

SMH

What people won't say when they don't even understand rudimentary math!

Or is it that they DO understand and they use it dishonestly?

Hmmmmmmmm?

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 8:15:04 PM

"What does it take to convince you that there is something drastically not right with that segment of our society?"

I agree there's something drastically wrong. We disagree as to what that is.



"It cant all be that cops are all racist and like to arrest other skinned folks so much more."

It can't?



"There is a reason why so many young black folks are killed by their own friends."

I don't think there is A reason; I think there are A NUMBER of reasons. I've even mentioned a few.



"There is a reason that something like 13% of the population is of that heritage and yet they commit somewhere in excess of 50% of the murders in the US."

84% of white homicide victims are murdered by whites, and 93% of black victims are murdered by blacks. Murder is an equal opportunity crime, for the most part. Yet you choose to select statistics that do not give a true picture of reality.



"Is the justice system perfect - no its not Marty."

Understatement of the era.



"But it alone does not even come close to explaining why the epidemic of lawlessness in that part of society takes place."

Do you really expect respect for a legal system that is itself unfair and partial and rigged against a particular shade of society? How is it you seem not only to understand but also approve of lawless behavior on the part of the Washington protesters? What is it that colors your viewpoint so?


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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 7:14:00 PM

"This is not to say that cultural differences do not enter into the picture, but I remain unconvinced ..." What does it take to convince you that there is something drastically not right with that segment of our society? It cant all be that cops are all racist and like to arrest other skinned folks so much more. There is a reason why so many young black folks are killed by their own friends. There is a reason that something like 13% of the population is of that heritage and yet they commit somewhere in excess of 50% of the murders in the US. Come on Marty - for once look at the real world will you.

Is the justice system perfect - no its not Marty. But it alone does not even come close to explaining why the epidemic of lawlessness in that part of society takes place.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 7:06:33 PM

Simple solution to every problem in the so-called "Black Community": More jobs, less welfare.

Problem is getting them to actually work. We have to "import" 11 million workers from Mexico, Central, and South America yet Black people can't "find" jobs?

How about a new slogan:

Undocumented Americans, doing the work Black people are just too lazy to do...
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 5:52:54 PM

"The black arrest rate for most offenses — including robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes — is still typically two to three times their representation in the population."

Is that because blacks commit more crimes than whites, or because black suspects are pursued with greater vigor and with less regard for the evidence... with full knowledge that most blacks can ill afford legal representation?



" The problem is black criminal behavior, which is one manifestation of a black pathology that ultimately stems from the breakdown of the black family."

White families have suffered a breakdown as well, though not to the degree of black families. If criminal behavior is a manifestation of family breakdown for blacks, why don't we see the same manifestation to a lesser degree for whites?




"“Even allowing for the existence of discrimination in the criminal justice system, the higher rates of crime among black Americans cannot be denied,” wrote James Q. Wilson and Richard Herrnstein in their classic 1985 study, “Crime and Human Nature.”"

Nobody is denying the higher rates of crime among blacks. What is being disputed is the underlying reasons for the higher crime rates. Might the poverty rate (28.1% for blacks versus 15.9% for whites), or the unemployment rate (13.4% for blacks versus 6.7% for whites), or the median annual earnings (74.5% for black men, when compared to 100% for white men; 69.6% for black women, when compared to 80.5% for white women)... I note that 100% for white men is the de-facto standard of measurement.

Consider also the higher rate of incarceration for black men versus white men for the same crime... likely because good legal representation is more available to whites who have higher earnings; or the gap in school achievement scores between blacks and whites; or the disparity of school discipline between blacks and whites.

This is not to say that cultural differences do not enter into the picture, but I remain unconvinced they enter to the degree that Mr. Riley, channeling William Stuntz, suggests.







[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 12/15/2014 5:55:23 PM EST]
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 4:29:58 PM

IammeCA said: "what positive steps can we --meaning all of us - do to start turning this situation around?"

The first (and seemingly impossible) first step is to have an HONEST conversation about it. That's the only way to get to root causes of the problem.

That can't happen when you confront people with the harsh evidence and they respond by calling you a racist. They can't digest the truth. They're afraid that their ideology will be undermined by it...because that's exactly what would happen.

So you end up with what we have now. One side is refusing to believe that their heroes were thugs and criminals, ultimately receiving the frequent result of leading a criminal life. They ignore the tsunami of crimes committed by blacks against whites because that conflicts with their meme...also, since the mainstream media doesn't report it, it must not be happening, right?

These people are living a life of lies and perpetuating these lies with their cries of "Black Lives Matter" and "Hands Up - Don't Shoot". They MUST realize they're living a life of lies in the face of the overwhelming evidence, so there's really not much a rational person can do to crack that nut. We're dealing with irrational people here.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 3:34:23 PM



From the racist rally in New York this weekend, the chant was:

"What do we want?

DEAD cops!

When do we want them?

NOW!"

NYC protesters chant for dead cops

Mayor DiBlasio, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and all you other liberal RACISTS, have blood on your hands!

But MTMarty and the other anti-cop people around here apparently will be sure to support you since to them cops are the epitome of evil.



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 12/15/2014 3:34:57 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 3:07:35 PM

Agreed IammeCA - I posted a similar article about bias. Some is overt and should not be in our society. But there are many instances where our bias is valid and the fact is "bias" is a finely honed survival tool that dates back to long before recorded history.

The real key is to figure out if the bias is real and useful or is real or instinctive and is actually hurting our ability to work together as a society.

I know one thing I did when I was in the position of evaluating applications - I would have a fellow worker make a xerox copy of them and on the copy black out any reference to things like names, age, gender or anything else that was a non merit item. I got some pleasant surprises when I found out who 'made the cut'.
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IammeCA
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 2:56:38 PM

"So what is the real problem and what positive steps can we --meaning all of us - do to start turning this situation around?"

I think one of the most important thing is to admit that it is more complex than a single problem. I think people need to realize that Mr. Stuntz and Al Sharpton can both be right on this issue.

I think that actually both sides are related and feed each other in a kind vicious cycle.

Prejudice in the workplace is real. A study was done sending out resumes with identical qualifications but with black sounding names or white sounding names. (Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal?) The resumes with white sounding names got 50% more call backs than those with black sounding names.

That kind of a barrier can spread a sense of hopelessness and help push people toward inappropriate behavior (gangs, drugs, welfare babies, etc.). This kind of behavior will increase the tendency toward prejudice and the barrier gets stronger.

Both sides need to be dealt with instead of disparaging people who point out or try to deal with the other side of the problem.

Note: My above explanation is a simplification. In truth there are more than just 2 aspects of the problem.

[Edited by: IammeCA at 12/15/2014 2:58:24 PM EST]
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lvskyguy
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 2:42:09 PM

There are shootings/killings all over the Country, among all races. Many do not reach the TV News unless you read Local Newspapers. Los Angeles, for example, has daily, if not hourly shootings as in other cities, large and small towns, and the killings are getting worse by the day – all over the Country. Day or Night, some person is throwing a fit to attack another, whip out a pistol and bang. There are plenty of Officer-involved shootings which do not make the National News. It doesn’t matter anymore if one lives in a decent neighborhood, an affluent neighborhood, or in a poorer neighborhood. There are shootings in the Workplace; home invasions; public places where one would feel ‘safe.’ Many of these Officer-involved shootings do not get the attention as Ferguson or New York. There are also reversal incidents of that in Ferguson which do not receive such National attention. It is a daily thing.

So, what is the answer to curtail this violence in America? What factors cause a person to behave so violently – unemployment, drugs, mentally disturbed, envy, unhappiness, hate, prejudice, and so on. It just seems it’s a case of “this is MY space, do not enter, I can do what I want when I want.” It’s depressing to see all this garbage in what we want to call a civilized society.
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SE3.5
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 2:31:47 PM

More news from Chicago: Three dead, 29 wounded over weekend. No police bullets involved.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 1:16:54 PM

Another attempt to actually discuss the situation - this time from someone who has a different perspective maybe.
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>>>“High rates of black violence in the late twentieth century are a matter of historical fact, not bigoted imagination,” wrote Mr. Stuntz. “The trends reached their peak not in the land of Jim Crow but in the more civilized North, and not in the age of segrega­tion but in the decades that saw the rise of civil rights for African Americans — and of African American control of city governments.” The left wants to blame these outcomes on racial animus and “the system,” but blacks have long been part of running that system. Black crime and incarceration rates spiked in the 1970s and ’80s in cities such as Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Washington under black mayors and black police chiefs. Some of the most violent cities in the United States today are run by blacks.

Black people are not shooting each other at these alarming rates in Chicago and other urban areas because of our gun laws or our drug laws or a criminal justice system that has it in for them. The problem is primarily cultural — self-destructive behaviors and attitudes all too common among the black underclass. The problem is black criminal behavior, which is one manifestation of a black pathology that ultimately stems from the breakdown of the black family. Liberals want to talk about what others should do for blacks instead of what blacks should do for themselves. But if we don’t acknowledge the cultural barriers to black progress, how can we address them? How can you even begin to fix something that almost no one wants to talk about honestly?<<<

First of all we might look at what it means to talk about something honestly. We might start by not calling each other names for bringing the subject up for discussion.

The second thing we might actually consider doing is looking at real world data. Data like this from the same linked article-------

>>>Today blacks are about 13 percent of the population and continue to be responsible for an inordinate amount of crime. Between 1976 and 2005 blacks com­mitted more than half of all murders in the United States. The black arrest rate for most offenses — including robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes — is still typically two to three times their representation in the population. Blacks as a group are also overrepresented among persons arrested for so-called white-collar crimes such as counterfeiting, fraud and embezzlement. And blaming this decades-long, well-documented trend on racist cops, prosecutors, judges, sentencing guidelines and drug laws doesn’t cut it as a plausible explanation.

“Even allowing for the existence of discrimination in the criminal justice system, the higher rates of crime among black Americans cannot be denied,” wrote James Q. Wilson and Richard Herrnstein in their classic 1985 study, “Crime and Human Nature.” “Every study of crime using official data shows blacks to be overrepresented among persons arrested, convicted, and imprisoned for street crimes.” This was true decades before the authors put it to paper, and it remains the case decades later. <<<.
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So what is the real problem and what positive steps can we --meaning all of us - do to start turning this situation around?
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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 12:44:31 PM

MiddletownMarty said: "data very often requires more than a simple minded explanation"

Simple-minded is ignoring some stark and glaring statistics, like the HUGE difference between black-on-white crimes versus white-on-black. Or better yet, black-on-ANY-color versus ANY-color-on-black.

Simple-minded is also ignoring the FACT that the media will only report on the Martin/Brown/Gardner incidents as if blacks were being purposely targeted by non-whites, then trying to cover up all the ugly history of the deceased when the truth eventually comes out. Simple-minded is absorbing and parroting the media's arguments, like virtually all liberals seem to do, all so desperate to cling to their imagined perception of reality.

Simple-minded is throwing out some long explanation based on GIS analysis in hopes that it will cloud the issue, even though it concludes with "The results of GIS show that high density and multi-family development are not necessarily associated with high crime rate, but socioeconomic status is."

Well, DUH! That doesn't nullify ANYTHING about what has been illustrated by the huge imbalance of blacks involved in crimes now, does it? It does indicate a "socioeconomic" problem, which we ALL should be able to recognize. The "socio" aspect is the degeneration of black culture, caused primarily by the disintegration of the family unit, caused primarily by liberal policies like welfare, entitlements and abortion. The "economic" aspect is another liberal effect, clearly demonstrated by the degradation seen in black communities in this country since Obozo's policies have been in place. Can you say "record high unemployment?" Beyond that, look at Detroit for an example of how liberal policies "benefit" black communities, or how the subprime lending crisis knocked EVERYBODY down a peg, especially the poor.

As for being a crybaby and running to the mods, should I have reported this accusation, posted 10/23 3:50pm EST by MiddletownMarty in this thread, accusing me of being racist? "If you walk like a racist and talk like a racist and act like a racist, don't be surprised if folks conclude the obvious."

I didn't and I won't, but if the mods consider responding to MiddletownMarty's whining, maybe they ought to consider what a hypocrite he's proven himself to be!
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 12:41:06 PM

"Could MTMarty be a liberal?"

I just have the common sense to close the windows when foul odors offend my olfactory senses. Not everything can be broken down into liberal versus conservative. To think they do is really quite childish and immature.









[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 12/15/2014 12:43:55 PM EST]
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 12:25:25 PM



MTMarty, "What jeskibuff posts is of absolutely no interest to me"

No surprise there at all.

Could MTMarty be a liberal?

;-)

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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 12:00:29 PM

Data doesn't lie, but data very often requires more than a simple minded explanation. There are other issues than race involved with such a complex concept as crime rate... population density, structural density, socioeconomic position, unemployment duration, and racial isolation just to name a few. Again, the explanation for the data is not at all as simple as some here would prefer it (or maybe need it) to be.



"What do you want to bet that MTMarty will refuse to watch jeskibuff's video?"

What jeskibuff posts is of absolutely no interest to me unless I am attacked personally. If I perceive such an attack, I will report it to the mods and ask them to do their jobs.



The Real Picture of Land-Use Density and Crime: A GIS Application

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 12/15/2014 12:03:29 PM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 11:49:29 AM



What do you want to bet that MTMarty will refuse to watch jeskibuff's video?

Or that MTMarty will refuse to consider any of the facts in that video?

Or that MTMarty will change his mind about the lies that have been told about what happened in Ferguson?

Or that MTMarty will probably now report also me to the mods for a "personal attack" [yet another LIE] for even mentioning his name and asking him to consider facts?

SMH

Some people can't even have a rational conversation. And when someone tries to have a rational conversation with them, they dishonestly run to the mods.

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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 11:40:55 AM

Second personal attack noted and reported.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2014 11:26:51 AM

jeskibuff- interesting video. I have mentioned similar things and have been castigated for it and called a racist. Yet the data doesn't lie. Yes there is an epidemic crime wave. But it is not white on black type crime.

We could look into the causes of this but if one even tries to bring up the subject the local progressives absolutely flip out.

I wonder why it is taboo to even try to talk about why the problem exists?
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