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Author Topic: Hamas targets Israeli Nuclear Reactor With Rockets Back to Topics
mudtoe

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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2014 2:48:29 PM

Well this isn't good. Apparently Hamas is deliberately trying to cause a nuclear disaster by targeting Israel's nuclear reactor. So far the rockets have either missed or been intercepted by Iron Dome.

I think this represents a significant escalation, and will likely result in a significant response by Israel. Time to check out the oil futures again......


Hamas: We attempted to hit the nuclear reactor in Dimona



mudtoe
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 10:44:40 AM



That wasn't very nice to call yourself a "Braying Donkey".

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 10:40:20 AM

"Left out a word in the last post ...

"Once again you are apparently INCAPABLE of following a logical thought, aren't you?""

Don't worry, we filled it in for you automatically as we read your post ;)
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 4:29:03 PM



Left out a word in the last post ...

"Once again you are apparently INCAPABLE of following a logical thought, aren't you?"

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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 4:21:22 PM



Weaslespit, "So because you say that they don't believe in land ownership, that makes what was done to them right?"

Once again you are apparently of following a logical thought, aren't you?

So you just make false stuff up out of whole cloth.

Typical of a liberal.



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 9/9/2014 4:22:03 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 4:05:30 PM

"Ask Indians why they say that no one can own the land and then behave otherwise."

So because you say that they don't believe in land ownership, that makes what was done to them right?

"Their problem, not mine."

Typical.

"Ask Indians why they constantly fought at killed each other when according to liberals like you they lived in a peaceful utopia until the evil white man came."

Is there a point here relative to the topic? Or is this just another diversion? Again, which region of the world 'doesn't' have this in their history?

"You were the one who bogusly inserted Indians into this topic.

And now you want to run from it."

No, actually I have corrected your diversions away from the point that was made that you continue to run from. Here, I'll make it again for ya;

FYI - how well did the Native Americans react to our ancestors throwing them off of their lands and putting them on 'reservations'? Yet we criticize Palestinians for reacting while now sympathizing with the Native Americans because of what was done in our own history? Here is a hint - one can't be OK while the other was wrong. Too bad history is doomed to repeat itself when the lessons it teaches aren't learned.


[Edited by: Weaslespit at 9/9/2014 4:05:58 PM EST]
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 3:58:09 PM



Weaslespit, "Weird, then why did the European settlers have to 'buy' Manhattan with trinkets? Your story is already falling apart..."

Not my story.

Ask Indians why they say that no one can own the land and then behave otherwise.

Their problem, not mine.

Ask Indians why they constantly fought at killed each other when according to liberals like you they lived in a peaceful utopia until the evil white man came.

Their problem, not mine. And YOUR problem, not mine!

SMH

You were the one who bogusly inserted Indians into this topic.

And now you want to run from it.

Typical.

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 2:46:26 PM

"Good post AC ---- I see the weasle is playing games in this topic too."

How so? I agree with AC - Hamas is doing 'nothing' to help the Palestinian people. Nothing. In fact, they are making it worse.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 2:39:05 PM

"There were 2 valid points that you totally ignore because they do not support your dishonest points."

LOL - let's take a look, shall we? I'm your huckleberry...

"How could we 'take the land from them' when they claim they never could own the land?"

Weird, then why did the European settlers have to 'buy' Manhattan with trinkets? Your story is already falling apart... but let's continue anyway.

"And you totally ignore the fact that Indian tribes/nations CONSTANTLY fought with each other and killed each other and took territory away from each other."

Which region of the world throughout history hasn't had this happen? Name one. Besides, I thought it wasn't their territory to lose/take, based on your previous comment? Pointless...

FYI - how well did the Native Americans react to our ancestors throwing them off of their lands and putting them on 'reservations'? Yet we criticize Palestinians for reacting while now sympathizing with the Native Americans because of what was done in our own history? Here is a hint - one can't be OK while the other was wrong. Too bad history is doomed to repeat itself when the lessons it teaches aren't learned.

Like I said, the only explanation for that post was being intentionally obtuse to avoid the facts.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 2:16:54 PM



"Palestinian" muslim Arabs do not want a Palestinian state.

They want the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews. Period.

They did not protest when Jordan ruled the West Bank, Syria ruled the Golan Heights and Egypt ruled Gaza. They were perfectly content then.

Now Egypt says it will establish a "Palestinian State" in an area of the Sinai 5x the size of Gaza.

And the Palestinian leadership says "NO".

Egypt's Sisi Offered Abbas Creation of Palestinian State in Sinai Peninsula

"Egyptian President General Abdel Fatah al-Sisi has offered Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas the chance to create a Palestinian state in the Sinai Peninsula, according to local Israeli media.

The offer to the Palestinian President which, reports say Abbas has denied, would have seen 1,600 square kilometres of the Sinai Peninsula given to the Palestinian Authority, creating a Palestinian state five times the size of Gaza.

According to IDF Radio, the offer would see Abbas relinquish demands that Israel return to the 1967 borders.

In the new and enlarged Gaza, the territory would be demilitarised and Palestinian refugees, many who were unable to return to their towns after the creation of Israel, would have been able to settle there.

As part of the proposal, Palestinian cities in the occupied West Bank would have been autonomous and continued to be under Palestinian Authority control.

Sisi allegedly said to Abbas in the meeting: "You are now 80 years old, if you don't accept this proposal, your successor will.""

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btc1
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 12:36:37 PM

Has Hamas attacked any other country? This is nothing more than a Civil War.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 12:26:35 PM



Weaslespit, "Intentionally obtuse - that is the only explanation for this comment..."

Are you a liberal, Weaslespit?

Because that is a typical liberal response.

Never deal with facts or respond to valid points. There were 2 valid points that you totally ignore because they do not support your dishonest points.

Instead, you simply go to the name-calling immediately.

Typical.

What is the explanation for YOUR comment?


[Edited by: AnotherOne at 9/9/2014 12:29:10 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 12:16:26 PM

Good post AC ---- I see the weasle is playing games in this topic too.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 12:11:23 PM

"How could we 'take the land from them' when they claim they never could own the land?

And you totally ignore the fact that Indian tribes/nations CONSTANTLY fought with each other and killed each other and took territory away from each other."

Intentionally obtuse - that is the only explanation for this comment...
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2014 12:09:10 PM

Speaking of which, someone just sent this video to a good friend of mine

A rap song that pretty much sums it upI thought two points were particularly cutting. First, Hamas used over 80,000 metric tons of concrete to build tunnels, rather than using it to build apartments and dwellings for the people of Gaza. The second point I thought was very cutting was that Israel uses weapons to protect its citizens. Hamas uses IT'S CITIZENS to protect it's weapons! And how many billions of dollars has it spent on rockets, rocket launchers, shells and mortars that could and should have been spent on caring for the people of Gaza?

The video also includes a link to Hamas' charter. Hamas has no interest in peace with Israel. And I hate to say it, but the good people of Gaza, if they are sick of war, need to oust Hamas. The Gazans overwhelmingly voted to put into power a terrorist organization. Unless they wish to continue to reap the fruit of terror (harsh retaliation for their violence), then they need to stop the violence, period.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 12:17:19 PM



Weaslespit, "Seems to me that your comparison would be better served had you used Native Americans as your subject, since America was created with the land taken from them."

How could we 'take the land from them' when they claim they never could own the land?

And you totally ignore the fact that Indian tribes/nations CONSTANTLY fought with each other and killed each other and took territory away from each other.

But that doesn't fit the dishonest picture that liberals always try to paint.

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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 12:15:32 PM

Weasel said: "There was no 'Louisiana Purchase' made for the amount of land that they were granted after WWII, much less what they have taken since."

--Not in one fell swoop. Look up a group called the jewish national fund. As I understand it, JNF literally BOUGHT land and held it's title for centuries. I've read this in a number of places, including a book written by a Christian woman.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 12:01:48 PM

"And how incredibly ignorant YOU are, to not see the obvious truths that are right at the end of your nose."

Nice retort. Very deep... <s>
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2014 12:00:55 PM

"You claim "displacement", but the fact remains, the land was purchased."

There was no 'Louisiana Purchase' made for the amount of land that they were granted after WWII, much less what they have taken since.

"But they're not building "willy nilly" on land that isn't theirs."

That is 'exactly' what they are doing.

"Well let me ask this - to Jewish people have sovereignty here in America? Do Palestinian people have sovereignty?"

Seems to me that your comparison would be better served had you used Native Americans as your subject, since America was created with the land taken from them. How did they react to this action, btw? Did they all go peacefully into the night? How well did we treat them, or were they the victims of subjugation?
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2014 1:48:51 PM

No sovereignty? Hmmmm.. Well let me ask this - to Jewish people have sovereignty here in America? Do Palestinian people have sovereignty?

There are Palestinians, lots of them, who are passport carrying citizens of Israel. Other than being excused from military service (religious exemption, as Muslims aren't supposed to make war unless it's to protect Islam), Arab/Muslim citizens of Israel have all the rights that Jewish and Christian Israelis have. I'm not entirely sure what your "beef" is here? Are they subjugated, too? Just like the Puerto Ricans?

You claim "displacement", but the fact remains, the land was purchased. Israel remunerates folks for land. Now, I can't say whether land cut off by the security fence is all bought and paid for. I'll cede that point, as I don't know. But they're not building "willy nilly" on land that isn't theirs. That's for sure.

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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 7:43:43 PM

Weaslespit said: "How incredibly intolerant (not to mention ignorant) of you. Par for the course.."

And how incredibly ignorant YOU are, to not see the obvious truths that are right at the end of your nose.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 3:42:09 PM

"In a nutshell, ignorance of what it would lead to."

That is an unintended consequence perhaps, but not why they were voted into power.

"--And how was the land "taken"? Jewish folks moved there over the years and bought land. In fact, by the time of the 1948 UN mandate, the Jewish folks were the majority people, and outright owned some 98% of the land area of what would become Israel's final borders, or so I'm to understand."

These maps attract attention because they graphically tell a story of dispossession. They point to an important reality: that as Israel has expanded in what was historic Palestine, the majority of the indigenous people of that land - the Palestinians - have either been driven off their land, or, where they remain, have no sovereignty and few rights.

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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 11:52:17 AM

Penngas - I already read that Huff&Puff post article that you posted. I had read another one, too, that detailed it a bit further than yours that are a series of angry responses, rather than an objective report. As I understand it, just like Greater Cairo has extended out to the pyramids, Greater Jerusalem is extending out to Bethlehem. They may well have the right to build on that land as an extension of Jerusalem. But perhaps we'll simply have to agreeably agree to disagree on the matter.
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 11:36:15 AM

weasel said: "Show me where any people who have had their land taken by a foreign entity and given to create another have been absolutely peaceful...#perspective."

--And how was the land "taken"? Jewish folks moved there over the years and bought land. In fact, by the time of the 1948 UN mandate, the Jewish folks were the majority people, and outright owned some 98% of the land area of what would become Israel's final borders, or so I'm to understand. Further than that, when Israel was formed, the Palestinians were asked not to leave, to stay and be their neighbors. Some said yes, some said no. Those who left in the war of independence, well, they left and got their just desserts, IMHO. Treason is considered "not cool", there or here for that matter.
#persepctive; #truthaboutisrael

weasel further asked: "Why do you think Hamas was voted into power?"

--Honestly, I realize that Hamas acts as a socialist organization, with hospitals, schools and charitable sites dispensing food and water. I get it. They basically bought votes. And now that they've established their dictatorship, they won't let go of it. Why did the Gazans vote Hamas in? In a nutshell, ignorance of what it would lead to.

weasel further went on to say: "I'll never understand Israel apologist who blindly defend any and all actions that they take. Even Israeli's disagree with their government's foreign policy..."

--And I'll never understand the Palestinian apologists to CLAIM to decry the Palestinians' violence, but then immediately blame Israel 100% for all of it. Some of these fools think Israel should disarm tomorrow, but the Palestinians shouldn't have to. Here, now, let's reason something out together. Let's say tomorrow that both the PA and Hamas in Gaza would lay their arms down tomorrow and renounce terrorism and violence for good. What do you think would happen? Peace would break out, and no more Palestinians would ever die in an Israeli raid, nor would there be bombs dropped and helicopter gunships would stay on the tarmac.

But let's look at the flip-side. What if Israel were to lay it's arms down tomorrow and say: "Europe is right, we should never, ever retaliate against the Palestinians ever again, and we're going to lay down our arms as a gesture of good faith." What do you think would happen? The Palestinians would attack and there'd be a bloodbath as the Palestinians and other Arabs would come in to kill Israel and the Jews (and possibly the Christians and Druze living there as well!).

I do think Israel can be heavy handed at times. That said, I think that often their approaches are justified, as the Palestinians cannot or will not stop the terror. By the way, if the Palestinians ever did negotiate a real peace, their leaders would be killed almost right away. Why so? Because the members of the Arab league, and in particular, Iran and Syria, with tacit support of Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, want to keep the Palestinians "oppressed" so they can use them to "needle" Israel.

Speaking of which, I wonder if the terror from ISIL gets to Western Europe, if the EU will change it's tune about Israel vs. Palestinian terrorism? Probably not. Anti-semitism is utterly rampant and rife in Europe, and has been for the better part of 2 millenia.

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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 10:56:34 AM

"I deny your false claim of what I said."

Like I said - denial. New tactic from you... Much easier than facing reality though.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 10:55:46 AM

"The Israeli/Palestinian conflict has little to do with land. That's just an excuse."

And therein lies the problem that keeps you from understanding the whole situation.

"Muslims would just focus their hatred on another group. That's the way they operate."

How incredibly intolerant (not to mention ignorant) of you. Par for the course...

"Israel needs to stop trying to be the nice guy."

And therein lies another problem that keeps you from understanding the whole situation.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 8:20:35 AM



EXExit, I think that Netanyahu 'quote' was actually something Golda Meir said years ago.

I just goes to prove that things have not changed with the muslims/Arabs/Palestinians in hundreds of years.

And if Israel was not there, they would be causing problems over something else.

You are probably right on the mark, EZExit, when you say that ISIS [or whatever latest name the muslims use] would take over and have a base and resources for MORE terrorism.

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EZExit
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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 3:14:49 AM

Jeski: <<<"If all Jews vacated Israel, leaving the entire area to the Palestinians, there STILL would be no peace. Muslims would just focus their hatred on another group. That's the way they operate.">>>

--If that hypothetical occurred, ISIS would quickly take over Gaza as well as Israel, while Hamas would be assimilated into ISIS itself. I suppose that is one way to get rid of Hamas altogether...

As Netanyahu so poignantly stated, until Gaza residents love their families more than they hate Israelis, peace does not stand a chance.
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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 9:48:44 PM

Weaslespit said: "Israel's foreign policy sucks..."

And therein lies the problem that keeps you from understanding the whole situation.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict has little to do with land. That's just an excuse. If all Jews vacated Israel, leaving the entire area to the Palestinians, there STILL would be no peace. Muslims would just focus their hatred on another group. That's the way they operate.

The main problem is Islam and "Exhibit A" is all the conflicts around the world involving Muslims. Even in close to 100% Muslim lands, there is war & murder, Afghanistan being the prime example.

Israel has been WAY too kind. They've tried being the "nice guy" too many times, only to be spit in the face. They've provided medical treatment for Palestinians. They provided aid & electricity. They gave working greenhouses to Gaza, only to see them destroyed.

What Israel SHOULD do is to section off the northern end of Gaza...a buffer zone between Israel and the rest of Gaza. They build housing and infrastructure there...provide for businesses to prosper but still maintain tight control over what goes in and out of the area. Then they offer this area to Palestinians who aren't interested in warring with Israel and who want peace. The tight control ensures that no armaments get inside, to prevent the hateful Muslims from slaughtering those who choose to live in peace.

As for the rest of Gaza, Israel needs to lay down some rules. For every single rocket fired in Israel's direction, Israel takes another acre of land away from them (raze it with bulldozers) and eventually annex it to the peaceful region.

Israel needs to stop trying to be the nice guy. It just doesn't work too well when dealing with barbarians.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 5:20:11 PM



Weaslespit, "Denial now?"

No.

I deny NOTHING of what I said. I stand behind every word.

I deny YOUR TWISTING of what I said.

You claim I said something which I did not say.

I deny your false claim of what I said.

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PennGas
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 4:37:45 PM

"As I understand this, the land is part of the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. And every treaty in existence shows that the Israelis have the right to build on land to extend the Jewish quarter for new residents. So, I'm afraid you are wrong...yet again."

The land is in the occupied West Bank not Jerusalem. As far as Israel having the right to build on the land, apparently that is not the case according to the U.N., France, Norway, U.K., USA, Japan, Turkey and the EU just to name a few.

If you don't believe me, here is a direct article with the statements from those countries...
Illegal Land Grab
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 3:38:25 PM

"I did nothing of the sort."

Denial now? Usually the Tea Partiers double-down when it comes to ridiculous (if not insulting) comparisons like the one you made.

Interesting shift in tactics.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 1:03:45 PM



Weaslespit, "Got it - so you did indeed compare the 'plight' of the Right in the US with that of the Palestinians.

What a shame."

I did nothing of the sort.

You have enough trouble with the words out of YOUR mouth. Please do not try to put your words into my mouth!

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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 1:01:49 PM

"And I am just giving people a practical illustration of what your definition means."

Got it - so you did indeed compare the 'plight' of the Right in the US with that of the Palestinians.

What a shame.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:16:05 PM



Weaslespit, you are the one who gave your definition of "subjugate".

And I am just giving people a practical illustration of what your definition means.

It is hardly a 'slam' when it is just a statement of fact.

Unless the FACTS 'slam" Obama!

Which they DO all the time!

ROTFL

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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:13:13 PM

"So according to your definition, Obama is SUBJUGATING you and all the rest of us.

THANK YOU for clearing that up!"

Pray tell, how is this generic Obama slam relevant? Or did you just seriously try to compare the 'plight' of the Right in the US with that of the Palestinians?

SMH

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 9/4/2014 12:14:15 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:11:43 PM

"Weaslespit, "Hamas is the one who has subjugated Gaza, not Israel.""

I didn't say that, so please do not attribute that quote to me.

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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:11:00 PM



"Hamas is the one who has subjugated Gaza, not Israel."

Weaslespit, "Why do you think Hamas was voted into power?"

Because the PA and Fatah were not violent enough.

Simple enough for you, Weaslespit?



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 9/4/2014 12:13:40 PM EST]
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:09:26 PM



"Are the Palestinians "subjugated" by either having to give huge amounts of tribute or are they under forced labor to Israel?"

Weaslespit, "Your definition of "subjugate" is far too narrow - I can see why you are struggling to grasp the concept;"

So according to your definition, Obama is SUBJUGATING you and all the rest of us.

THANK YOU for clearing that up!

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 11:54:27 AM

"Show me where the Palestinians have been absolutely peaceful and non-aggressive, and then maybe I'll believe you."

Show me where any people who have had their land taken by a foreign entity and given to create another have been absolutely peaceful...

#perspective.

"Hamas is the one who has subjugated Gaza, not Israel."

Why do you think Hamas was voted into power?

" However, when Hamas fighters forbid a family to leave their home, after they set up a mortar on the roof, or a rocket launcher in their garage, or place explosives for "safekeeping" in the basement, and Israel attacks it, whose fault is it that the family gets hurt or killed?"

Any and all posters have condemned that Hamas tactic. All. Is this a deflection from the clear mistakes that Isreal made during their offensive where Hamas was NOT using human shields? 'Cause THAT is what I was referring to...

"OH, and as to your claims of "subjugation", what say you about Puerto Rico? Have we in America "subjugated" the Puerto Rican people? After all, we have subordinated them, right? Or what about the nice folks of the Virgin Islands, or American Samoa for that matter? By your definition, they are "subjects" and have been "subjugated", or did I not understand you definition?"

Strange, I wasn't aware that we have imposed such strict travel restrictions on them, amongst man, many other tactics.

I'll never understand Israel apologist who blindly defend any and all actions that they take. Even Israeli's disagree with their government's foreign policy...

I'll also never understand why seeing both sides makes me a Palestinian apologist who hates Israel and supports Hamas. It doesn't matter how many times this fallacy is refuted, it keeps cropping-up in these responses.
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 10:34:54 AM

Again, you decry "subjugation"? Then by all means, urge your Hamas brethren to abandon violence for peaceful negotiation. Have them lay down their arms, their mortars and their rockets. Don't let them give Israel any reason to attack them. Show me where the Palestinians have been absolutely peaceful and non-aggressive, and then maybe I'll believe you.

But again, I think you have it somewhat wrong. Hamas is the one who has subjugated Gaza, not Israel. It's not Israel that is beheading and assassinating average Gaza residents. Sure, there's some collateral damage, and I mourn and decry that as well. However, when Hamas fighters forbid a family to leave their home, after they set up a mortar on the roof, or a rocket launcher in their garage, or place explosives for "safekeeping" in the basement, and Israel attacks it, whose fault is it that the family gets hurt or killed? Israel needs to protect itself, and at this point enough was enough.

Or if Israel needs to destroy a Hamas terror tunnel, and there's a house on the other end of it, and it gets damaged or someone gets hurt, whose fault is that? Is it Israel's or Hamas'?

OH, and as to your claims of "subjugation", what say you about Puerto Rico? Have we in America "subjugated" the Puerto Rican people? After all, we have subordinated them, right? Or what about the nice folks of the Virgin Islands, or American Samoa for that matter? By your definition, they are "subjects" and have been "subjugated", or did I not understand you definition?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 8:51:58 AM

"But the Gaza Palestinians shoot rockets at Israel, and all you can do is decry "subjugation! Subjugation!", and claim Israel is being somehow racist, hateful and unfair for trying to put down that violence?"

Not at all - I fully supported Israel's initial action to go into Gaza (although not some of their heavy-handed, indiscriminate attacks which ensued) and eliminate the network of tunnels and destroy rocket caches...

Are you not reading everything that I am posting? I have stated this numerous times.

The subjugation is the next level that must be attacked, rather than just the symptoms created by the subjugation (rocket attacks).

"Then why don't you urge them to stop the shelling and rockets?"

I have - repeatedly. I have, on more than one occasion, indicated that this MUST be the FIRST step.

"Why don't you strongly urge them to use all that concrete to build buildings and roads, rather than building tunnels to attack Israel?"

See above.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 4, 2014 12:41:10 AM

Let's talk about what you claim is a "land grab", Penngas. The amount of land is in the neighborhood of 980 acres - or roughly 1.5 square miles. As I understand this, the land is part of the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem. And every treaty in existence shows that the Israelis have the right to build on land to extend the Jewish quarter for new residents. So, I'm afraid you are wrong...yet again.

OK, weasel, let me get this straight. Some, probably Jewish kooks chant "death to Arabs", and you take that to mean ALL Israelis hate the Palestinians. But the Gaza Palestinians shoot rockets at Israel, and all you can do is decry "subjugation! Subjugation!", and claim Israel is being somehow racist, hateful and unfair for trying to put down that violence?

Well, I see where your impartiality lies...thank you for laying that bare for all of us here.

Penngas and weasel - you want peace? You want the Palestinians to be treated what you would call fairly? Then why don't you urge them to stop the shelling and rockets? Why don't you strongly urge them to use all that concrete to build buildings and roads, rather than building tunnels to attack Israel? No matter what you say about how bad Israel is, that doesn't change the fact that Hamas is the provacateur in this case. Or are you going to accuse Israel of building the tunnels to BLAME Hamas. I wouldn't put it past some Arabs and their supporters to do so.

[Edited by: AC-302 at 9/4/2014 12:43:35 AM EST]
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PennGas
Champion Author Ontario

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 5:30:02 PM

So once again Israel gives the middle finger to the world with their latest land grab. They have proved once again they have absolutely no interest in peace. They also appear once again to have no regard for international law. I think it is about time economic sanctions are brought down on Israel to get the point across that violating international law will not be tolerated.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 8:44:16 AM

Weaslespit: "I am not surprised you don't see the hatred from the Israeli's..."

Probably because none of us have Liberal-coloured blinders riveted to our skulls, nor are any of us Jew-haters...

Not to mention the fact that since we're not libs, we look at things rationally and logically.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 8:39:08 AM

"Are the Palestinians "subjugated" by either having to give huge amounts of tribute or are they under forced labor to Israel?"

Your definition of "subjugate" is far too narrow - I can see why you are struggling to grasp the concept;

'sub·ju·gate' - make someone or something subordinate to.

"--No, what I see is a "people" who are bent on hatred and violence - and let me be perfectly plain - that would be the Palestinians hatred of both Jews AND Israel. Israel is perfectly justified to protect itself from a PROVEN violent people who WILL NOT CONTROL NOR POLICE THEMSELVES."

I am not surprised you don't see the hatred from the Israeli's...

"And no, I learned the Cincinnati joke from a guy who hailed from Toledo. His point was that people in Cincinnati are very polite, to a fault. And I somewhat get that. Gosh, when someone from that area wants you to repeat what you just said, they look at you and say "Please?" (or sometimes "Again, please?")"

LOL - that is because people from Toledo (much less Detroit) are far more, um, shall we say - 'direct'. ;)

"I'm not sure I'd believe that Jewish/Arab wedding bit."

Feel free to Google it, don't take my word for it. The wedding date was 8/18/14 in Israel - note that the crowd was chanting "Death to the Arabs"... Further evidence to my previous point.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2014 8:25:40 AM

Like I said, Israel's foreign policy sucks...
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 7:59:11 PM

Weasel said: "No, but the ones who do so willingly are in danger of being executed by Hamas, unfortunately."

--That wasn't the question. Are the Palestinians "subjugated" by either having to give huge amounts of tribute or are they under forced labor to Israel? Also, No. So, therefore, the word "subjugated" is not an appropriate word. And I do agree that Hamas will execute anyone who doesn't support them. They're as bad as Saddam Hussein as far as that goes. By the way, it is something of an open secret that the PA are also the ones who give Israel targeting information on Hamas. The PA has it's operatives, and many folks in West Bank have family in Gaza. The West Bank folks will sometimes report what their family says, and so the PA can reckon info, that is generated into targeting data.

weasel said: "So then you do see aspects the subjugation and are simply justifying it?"

--No, what I see is a "people" who are bent on hatred and violence - and let me be perfectly plain - that would be the Palestinians hatred of both Jews AND Israel. Israel is perfectly justified to protect itself from a PROVEN violent people who WILL NOT CONTROL NOR POLICE THEMSELVES.

And no, I learned the Cincinnati joke from a guy who hailed from Toledo. His point was that people in Cincinnati are very polite, to a fault. And I somewhat get that. Gosh, when someone from that area wants you to repeat what you just said, they look at you and say "Please?" (or sometimes "Again, please?")

I'm not sure I'd believe that Jewish/Arab wedding bit. Typically the happy "mixed" couple (i say "mixed", though if you didn't know beforehand who was what, you'd never guess, typically. The Jews and Arabs don't look very different from each other) marries in Cyprus or Greece, then carries their marriage cert/license back to Israel for it to be recognized.

Oh, and I've known PLENTY of Indians and Pakistanis, and even a few Afghanis (used to work with a guy who, if he were back there, would have been classified as a Pashtun. He told me that was a division of the people that was imposed on them from outsiders. Nobody ever thought of themselves as that.)

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 6:57:16 PM

"--Again, are the Palestinians working for the Israelis against their will?"

No, but the ones who do so willingly are in danger of being executed by Hamas, unfortunately.

"Could the palestinians IMPROVE their lives, if they would renounce terrorism?"

That would depend on Israel's response... I would hope so. That being said, those who have gone against Hamas - see above.

"Taking down fences and checkpoints happens AFTER the Palestinians stop the violence."

So then you do see aspects the subjugation and are simply justifying it?

And we wonder why there is no end to this.

"It is an interesting (and humorous) perspective on the lives of Palestinians who are Israeli citizens. (and despite what you might believe, there are plenty of "Arab Israelis", with full and total voting and representational rights."

Let's not paint too pretty a picture of Israeli's, given the crowd that showed-up to protest a Jewish/Arab wedding recently.

"Cincinnati is an interesting town. Here's a joke about Cincinnati - How many people does it take to screw in a light bulb in Cincinnati? Only one, but they kindly request you don't use the word "screw"."

I know a few - never heard that joke before, much less in reference to Cincinnati. Is that one of those where you 'insert town here' jokes?

"So exactly how many Palestinians do you know? I know a number, and have worked closely with some. Had a program engineer who was from there. And have even managed to meet Druze folks here in LaLa land. And I've worked and been friends with a bunch of folks from the region (Egyptians, Palestinians, Syrians, a number of folks from Lebanon, Iraqis and Iranians, as well as having known a number of folks from Saudi Arabia in my life.) How you?"

About the same, including Pakistani, with the exception of Iraqi.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 6:49:58 PM

"AC - now you have gone and done it - you have hurt the weasle's feelings.

Anyone want to make any bets on if he will go sulk in the corner or will he whine and moan ever louder? Quick someone call the odds makers in 'Vegas for the line..."

Gee whiz fly, you sound like the one with hurt feelings ;)
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 3:36:39 PM

AC - now you have gone and done it - you have hurt the weasle's feelings.

Anyone want to make any bets on if he will go sulk in the corner or will he whine and moan ever louder? Quick someone call the odds makers in 'Vegas for the line...
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