Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    5:46 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: US politics > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Why Do People Move? (You May Be Surprised To Learn The Actual Reasons) Back to Topics
SemiSteve

Champion Author
Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Jun 10, 2014 3:07:01 PM

Is it for lower taxes? Too many regulations?

That's what many conservatives would have us think.

Fortunately we know better than to let conservatives do the thinking.

According to the US Census Bureau there are many reasons people move. Other reasons besides 'high taxes' or 'government raising taxes' or 'moving to a place of lower taxes', or 'moving because of too many regulations' to a 'place of fewer regulations' are cited.

As a matter of fact, taxes and regulations were not even mentioned, even as a minor reason! (myth busted)

So if you have been believing that raising taxes on the rich or creating better regulations to ensure a safe and clean community will cause a mass exodus of the rich, their money and the 'jobs they create' (ha ha), fear not. Those reasons and that effect are complete hogwash. Nothing but more...

Conservative Myths.

US Census Statistics

I draw your attention to Table 23: Reason For Move. The categories listed are:

Total 37,540 (numbers in thousands)

1. Wanted new or better home / apartment. 5800
2. Other family reason. 4409
3. To establish own home. 4211
4. Wanted cheaper housing. 4067
5. Other housing reason. 3275
6. New job or job transfer. 2928
7. Change in marital status. 2756
8. Closer to work / easier commute. 1590
9. Better neighborhood / less crime. 1530
10. Attend college. 1031

Migration Data

Anyone care to postulate on the REAL reason conservatives don't want taxes raised for the rich?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 19, 2014 9:01:28 AM

When most homeowners I know relocate "willingly" there are generally numerous contributing factors, each of these factors with X degree of importance.

One factor with a high degree of importance may cause them to move, or pass on many regions while it may take several factors with lower degrees of importance to cause relocation.

For example, I currently have a dozen customers shopping for homes and/or building lots and acreage outside their regions.

Their primary concerns within the regions they're interested in are favorable zoning laws, regulations and property taxes.
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 11:40:21 AM

While people may have stated that they liked retiring in a State with low taxes that does not mean it is the primary reason they moved there.
Profile Pic
AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

Posts:31,633
Points:3,506,895
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 3:10:54 PM

SemiSteve foolishly and smugly posted: "130 may have moved because their employer moved because of a chance that a regulation might be changed.
Therefore, taxes or regulations are not very common reasons that people move."

--That is a foolish statement and conclusion. I know PLENTY of retirees who moved to states that had zero or low taxes to escape higher tax states. It also happens that many of the lower tax states are in the Sunbelt. But taxes, despite your protestations to the contrary, are definitely a factor in people moving to lower tax states from higher tax ones. Your OWN state of FL is a prime example. Or do you not understand that? Guess what? People don't like paying high taxes when they're not the ones getting service for that tax money. And neither to folks like to pay taxes for lazy unemployment bums to live long term off of the dole.
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,242
Points:1,954,860
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 5:47:03 PM

Was there a choice in the survey about getting away from rioting and looting?


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 8/15/2014 5:49:57 PM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 4:43:42 PM

You're the only one with a denial problem semisteve
But you know that.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:28,811
Points:1,598,275
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 12:31:20 PM

Steve people are trying to say to you that the results of your survey are questionable. People are trying to explain why the survey may be in error. People are using real world experience to show why they feel the survey you allude to may be in error.

Your response is to try to denigrate any answer that doesnt agree with your ideas.

If you dont want discussion then dont post the topics. But I recommend that you at least try to understand the responses you have gotten.

You take a very complex question such as why did a large group of individuals do something and try to reduce a extremely complex question to a series of less than one line choices - it will produce flukey results.
Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 12:18:21 PM

<<I look at a place like many of the cities in Arizona and the cities back east, like Detroit - why are things happening. There is no one single reason and all too many people are demanding "the reason". But when one tries to add up all the reasons for population shifts the common denominator seems to be over taxation and over regulation.>>

Regulation drove many businesses, large employers, developers, middle class, upper middle class and wealthy out of many urban areas.

This exodus caused a massive decline in tax revenue, so tax rates were increased to compensate for delinquent taxes, vacant/abandoned/condemned structures, falling property values, declining new construction, increasing poverty and unemployment - too much to list.

This is a vicious never-ending cycle. The good areas keep getting better and the bad areas keep getting worse.
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 11:39:00 AM

OK, then, folks.

Here we have a rather entertaining display of:

-disputes of the survey results

-disputes of surveys in general

-personal anecdotes

-statements of how people respond to surveys

-off-topic attempts to hijack the topic

And NONE of it offers any substantial evidence to substantiate these claims. Nor has any evidence to contradict the OP presented data been offered.

Is it that people just don't want to believe this; so they are coming up with every contrived explanation to the contrary they can think of?

Perhaps this serves as a rather profound example of how people react when data is presented which suggests that something they really want to believe is not really so.

Denial.

Then, I presume we will have to go through anger (well we've already seen a bit of that as well), bargaining, depression and finally acceptance.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:28,811
Points:1,598,275
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 11:32:27 AM

Mark the effects you just mentioned are exactly what I'm trying to get at. No one will come flat out and tell a survey taker things like that. The only way to find out is to look at the subtle changes that take place over time and try to see what has changed in the area in terms of living conditions and is the change in population type or numbers a response or the cause of or in combination a means to respond to the changes in living conditions.

I look at a place like many of the cities in Arizona and the cities back east, like Detroit - why are things happening. There is no one single reason and all too many people are demanding "the reason". But when one tries to add up all the reasons for population shifts the common denominator seems to be over taxation and over regulation.

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 8/15/2014 11:34:16 AM EST]
Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 11:22:23 AM

I've purchased many properties in the high tax regions - mostly 4 plus unit multi-family homes since myself and my tenants are less affected by the high tax rates.

The high tax rates have driven down housing prices substantially, so I've scored many bargains as well.

It wouldn't make much sense to buy a single family, or even a 2 family home in these regions since there aren't enough units and working tenants per unit to split the tax burden of say $40 to $50 per $1,000 of assessed value annually.

High tax rates also make renting much more attractive than owning.
Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 11:07:41 AM

<<HOw many people move from low tax areas to high tax areas?>>

In a few high tax regions where I own properties and do business population numbers haven't changed much.

What's changed dramatically is the incomes of residents as many are unemployed, under-employed, unemployable, on disability, on welfare etc.

Much of the middle class, upper middle class and wealthy have moved while low income residents have remained behind and many more low income residents have moved in.Many couples moved out while single mothers remained behind and more single mothers have moved in.

Many low income residents are less affected by taxes since they rent apartments in multi-unit buildings and many receive many subsidies.

Slumlords moved in as well due all the desperate renters and relatively cheap housing created by the exodus of the upper classes.
Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 10:54:27 AM

The only surveys I take are surveys to get discounts and/or free stuff.

I find them annoying and time consuming, so I breeze through them as fast as possible without thinking about my answers.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:28,811
Points:1,598,275
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 10:50:47 AM

People dont respond to surveys......

Well if we get one in the mail it is immediately ground up along with the other junk mail. If we get a phone survey they are told in an icy voice "our phone is on the do not call list - do not call means what it says" At that point the phone call is terminated.

To say that people move for only one are two reasons is a fallacy. To expect people to tell a stranger why they moved is a joke.

If you really want to know why folks move or dont move look at what is happening in terms of demographics in an area and see what has changed. Why do you think people move from high tax areas to low tax areas? HOw many people move from low tax areas to high tax areas? Taxes are only one factor in a long list of what motivates folks to move. Climate is a large factor if your retired and living in a northern state. Regulation both kinds and amounts plus taxes and availability of good employees are large factors if your a business that is looking to expand or is looking to get out from under onerous regulations.

Look at the states that are gaining population and jobs and incomes and look at those where jobs, incomes, companies etc are static or shrinking. What are the differences.

Dont bother asking people personal questions that they will refuse to answer or give false answers to. Look at reality not fluff and smoke.
Profile Pic
AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:19,938
Points:1,886,560
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 10:03:30 AM

Mark, exactly. A survey sent in the mail is going to get minimally accurate data. People hate them in the first place and so when they get them they just mark the first few things they see that apply.
Profile Pic
Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

Posts:2,140
Points:20,025
Joined:Jun 2014
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 9:38:42 AM

theTower: "la la la la la fingers in ears"

Or head firmly inserted in...

Never mind.

Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 9:36:15 AM

To get a somewhat accurate assessment of the true reasons my relatives, friends, customers, tenants and employees move generally takes a substantial amount of person to person communications.

It's not something that could be done in a survey.

It also takes a fair amount of research and/or BS detection since so many aren't truthful.
Profile Pic
WES03
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:7,248
Points:1,854,850
Joined:Feb 2009
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 9:03:39 AM

...and everybody left Detroit.
Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 8:30:18 AM

<<Factors we considered:

• High property taxes: If you own property, you can't avoid these taxes. No matter how high or how low your income, you will pay taxes based on the value of your home. Since retirees generally don't have a lot of income, this is our No. 1 negative consideration.>>

We have many senior customers in the high tax regions that can't afford to maintain, repair or upgrade their homes due to the high property taxes alone.More and more apply for numerous welfare benefits to survive, plus eat less, turn down thermostats, curb unnecessary spending etc.

Profile Pic
MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,767
Points:47,060
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 8:23:13 AM

Yesterday I rented 2 duplexes to 2 couples that moved due to:

1) School Systems
2) Property Taxes
3) Other Urban Issues - crime, blight, poverty, drugs, thugs, sex offenders, slumlords, noise, pollution, parking issues, poor streets/maintenance, population density, rules/regulations etc.

Moves due to school systems are very common this time of year. People want their kids to start the new school year in one of our desirable suburban, village or rural school systems.

Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 5:14:53 AM

semisteve: "taxes or regulations are not very common reasons that people move"

"We have simply presented them in the order of property taxes paid as a percentage of home value. That is our No. 1 consideration here, but not our only one. Look at the facts and the pluses and minuses we have provided for each – and rank them based on your own situation. For example, if you are going to receive a large pension and are very concerned about how it will be taxed, stay away from states that will tax it."

Now, unless you want to say that retirees aren't people semisteve, I would say that they are very concerned about taxes when they are considering a move.
You seem to have ignored this the first time I posted it. Not surprising.
la la la la la fingers in ears



[Edited by: theTower at 8/15/2014 5:18:37 AM EST]
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 10:02:46 PM

" a chance that a regulation might be changed."

I would say there is a very good chance MD will pass more fanatical gun restrictions in the future.
Beretta would already be shut down if they didn't lobby hard against the full version of that law.
They just chose not to have to fight that battle again.
Profile Pic
greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

Posts:1,289
Points:431,340
Joined:Oct 2011
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 9:42:19 PM

Hmmm, let's look at a different scenario for the census numbers:

My current situation for example.

My wife just secured a better job, but it is ~30 miles away.
The house we currently live in is a rental in a declining neighborhood and the owner is not interested in upkeep or repairs. The rent is above the surrounding homes.

Now, my wife and I plan to move so our reasons if asked would be: 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, from the list. However, we live in Florida due to lower taxes (no State income taxes) and relaxed regulations on other items (such as firearms, automobile restrictions and types of pets). So, if I were asked the reasons for moving, then yes the top reasons given would be my answer. If someone (the census) were to ask why wouldn't I move to say California then the #1 & #2 reasons would be taxes and restrictive regulations. When my wife and I used to move frequently for new jobs some of the deciding factors were #1 cost of living (including taxes, utilities, & food) and #2 restrictive State governmental intrusion.

The way a question is presented can affect the answer just as much, if not more, than the actual reasons behind the answer.
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 7:39:35 PM

5.8 million people moved to get into a better home.

130 may have moved because their employer moved because of a chance that a regulation might be changed.

Therefore, taxes or regulations are not very common reasons that people move.
Profile Pic
AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:19,938
Points:1,886,560
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 6:58:39 PM

"This topic was created to discuss why people move"

Hmm...really?

"Anyone care to postulate on the REAL reason conservatives don't want taxes raised for the rich?"

[Edited by: AFSNCO at 8/14/2014 6:59:51 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

Posts:2,140
Points:20,025
Joined:Jun 2014
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 6:31:29 PM

theTower: "You are here to tell us of the bubble you view your world through."

And, the problem is, there is a remarkably high number of people who live life with the same ignorant world view.

And they vote. Quite often without having a single clue what they're voting for...

Howard Stern Exposes Obama Supporters 2012

Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 6:26:53 PM

"Try as you might you have thus far been unable to present any evidence that any significant numbers of people move because of taxes or regulations."

Beretta was only around 130 jobs, but it represented millions of dollars of tax revenue to the state.
What would you consider a significant number?

"You have presented opinions and off-topic distractions attempting to hijack the thread."

I am asking you, our resident English major to use your own words type out a one or 2 paragraph explanation how one certain regulation effected one manufacture. The OP was on regulation, I am asking about a regulation that clearly caused a gun manufacture and importer to leave. I want to understand the rationality behind it and how it makes since.

The way I see it there is no logical reasoning to explain this regulation. It was another liberal creation born out of fear, ignorance and fanaticism and you know it. That's why you wont risk answering.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 6:02:49 PM

"Try as you might you have thus far been unable to present any evidence that any significant numbers of people move because of taxes or regulations"

Evidence has been presented.
You choose to ignore it.
Just like you always do when your ridiculous topics get the epic posting beat down they so richly deserve.
You aren't here to learn anything despite what you profess to the contrary.
You are here to tell us of the bubble you view your world through.

[Edited by: theTower at 8/14/2014 6:06:06 PM EST]
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 5:58:33 PM

There was no embarrassment.

This topic was created to discuss why people move. Not why companies move or regulating gun manufacturers. Try as you might you have thus far been unable to present any evidence that any significant numbers of people move because of taxes or regulations.

I have presented supporting data. You have presented opinions and off-topic distractions attempting to hijack the thread.

It may be possible that some companies move for taxes or regulations but if their workers also move they do so for work. If you would like to begin a topic on why companies move and offer supporting evidence you are free to do so.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 2:33:02 PM

"I contend that it is your opinion that:

- anti-gun legislation is liberal
- being liberal makes it 'stupid'"

I agree, moving on...

Explain it to us.

Lets say that shutting down Beretta was a perfectly rational action...
Can you please explain the rational and logic behind the thought process?
Because it seems like we missed it.

Or do you not want to embarrass your self again?

Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 12:28:46 PM

Here's what is opinion.

"Trust me, trying to pass a law that would shut down one of the largest gun manufactures in the country, cutting millions of dollars in tax revenue qualifies. [as 'Liberal stupidity infecting government.]"

I contend that it is your opinion that:

- anti-gun legislation is liberal
- being liberal makes it 'stupid'

Your opinion is yours; is not fact; and may not be shared by others.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 11:46:49 AM

Forget my opinion and explain it to us.

Lets say that shutting down Beretta was a perfectly rational action...
Can you please explain the rational and logic behind the thought process?
Because it seems like we missed it.

Or do you not want to embarrass your self again?
Profile Pic
Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

Posts:2,140
Points:20,025
Joined:Jun 2014
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 10:40:52 AM

theTower: "You just won't accept the truth."

He never does.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 10:37:36 AM

"Oil ya know you are trying to pass your opinion off as fact"

No he isn't
You just won't accept the truth.
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 14, 2014 10:32:45 AM

Oil ya know you are trying to pass your opinion off as fact.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 10:45:03 PM

"Not one single mention of 'Liberal stupidity infecting government.'"

Trust me, trying to pass a law that would shut down one of the largest gun manufactures in the country, cutting millions of dollars in tax revenue qualifies. Not only does it harm the state economy but Beretta supplies law enforcement and military, making it a matter of national security.
I would say that is a prime example of liberal stupidity infecting government.

Ultimately they got what they wanted, Beretta will no longer be making guns with in MDs boarder.

Lets say that shutting down Beretta a perfectly rational action...
Can you please explain the rational and logic behind the thought process?
Because it seems like we missed it.
Profile Pic
Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

Posts:2,140
Points:20,025
Joined:Jun 2014
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 9:28:46 PM

AFSNCO, it's not nice to interrupt SemiSteve when he's knocking the stuffing out of another straw man...

Profile Pic
AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:19,938
Points:1,886,560
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 6:11:44 PM

The survey is made by a person who decided what questions to ask. How simple is that for an answer? Again, they probably were not looking for something as specific as "taxes" but taxes play a role in a lot of different things. BTW, you are the one that automatically jumped to the conclusion that people did not move based on taxes. I just pointed out that they did not ask that on their survey. If you do not ask for blue as a response to the color of the sky you will not get blue as an answer, will you?
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 5:55:44 PM

And what percentage of people retire in a different State than the one they spent their entire life in, away from everybody they know, to live in a State where they don't know anybody, just to have lower taxes?

Is THAT the question you wanted on the survey?

btw, you still have yet to show any evidence that the survey questions were not the result of some specific information about why people move rather than something they just made up, AFSNCO.

***

Good point, Tower.
Profile Pic
AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:19,938
Points:1,886,560
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 3:49:10 PM

BTW, this study is talking about anyone moving. If people move locally of course it will not be for taxes. I moved within the same city I live in so my taxes never changed. So if you asked me why I moved I would tell you because I wanted a better house. If you move locally or to cut down on your commute time taxes never played a role in their reason for moving.

However, ask people who are leaving the workforce (retirement) why they move to a different city and/or state and you will probably get a different set of answers.
Profile Pic
AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:19,938
Points:1,886,560
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 3:46:35 PM

"Now I know a lot of people here want to believe that taxes and regulations are going to / already do cause people to move; so it only seemed natural to post information which conflicts with that common and apparently incorrect view."

Not really. People are going to follow jobs that move because of taxes and legislation. Look at #6 on that list....
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 3:22:05 PM

Tough legislation and liberal stupidity infecting government are not the same thing
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 2:57:44 PM

oilpan: "Seriously do you live under a rock? "

Could be better than existing under a block...

Home under a rock

Hey I checked out your link to the article about why Beretta moved. Not one single mention of 'Liberal stupidity infecting government.' Only that: "While proposed gun laws that would have closed most of Beretta's operations failed to pass the state's legislature last year, the company is worried that even tougher legislation could be successfully pushed through in the future, said spokesman Jeff Reh." (from your link)

Excuse me but I don't think liberals have any particular patent on tough legislation. Just ask anyone seeking an abortion in MS.

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 8/13/2014 3:01:09 PM EST]
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 2:44:13 PM

AFSNCO: "what leftwing rag did you read that came to that conclusion from that survey in the first place? "

Did I SAY I read a piece in a 'leftwing rag' which prompted me to pen this topic?

I don't even recall why I wrote this topic. It may have been from reading the newspaper, but I read so many it is hard to recall which, or even if it really was in a paper. What difference does it make? I didn't even quote an article. Instead I took all the information for this topic from the US Census Bureau website.

Here is an article about moving which gives the major reasons and references the Census Bureau.

USA Today

Now I know a lot of people here want to believe that taxes and regulations are going to / already do cause people to move; so it only seemed natural to post information which conflicts with that common and apparently incorrect view.

After all. We come here to learn, right? Well, at least I do. Can't speak for others. Some obviously have different motivations. But for those who are interested in learning I began this topic to inform.
Profile Pic
AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:19,938
Points:1,886,560
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 2:13:55 PM

"So, was there some part of 'an additional option to write-in reasons that did not fit into any of the predetermined choices' that you feel was unclear, AFSNCO?"

Steve, how much do you know about surveys and people filling them out? First off, people hate them. Second, most do not take them serious. So because of that people are just going to fill in a circle and move on. If you do not ask the question you will not get the response. It was not a survey on whether taxes played a role in moving but only you would find that as a reason to try to play it off as it was. So my question to you is what leftwing rag did you read that came to that conclusion from that survey in the first place?
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 1:27:14 PM

ME:"Same reason Toyota left cali and the gun manufactures left CO and MD.
Liberal stupidity infecting government."

"Did they SAY that is why they left?

Do you have some evidence of this"?

Seriously do you live under a rock?
Clearly you have a computer so how is it you have no clue to whats going on?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/22/news/companies/beretta-guns-move/index.html

"While proposed gun laws that would have closed most of Beretta's operations failed to pass the state's legislature last year, the company is worried that even tougher legislation could be successfully pushed through in the future, said spokesman Jeff Reh."

After that they would have to be completely stupid to stay in MD. Only thing you can bet on from anti gun liberals is more stupidity and insanity.

MagPul leaves CO. This will be the last time I ever use the huffington post as a source

"Magpul threatened last year to leave in response to new state laws that ban ammunition magazines that hold more than 15 rounds"

NBCLA

"For years, we’ve seen businesses flee California’s high taxes and strict regulations for more business-friendly states like Texas. This mass exodus should have sent a message to our state leaders that something needs to change"

Like I said, the only thing you can bet on is these states will keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

"Or is it simply your conclusion".

Really, what other conclusion can be drawn?

What kind of lunacy had you convinced your self was the cause?

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 8/13/2014 1:37:08 PM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 1:22:27 PM

Future liberal politician.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,818
Points:334,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 12:59:34 PM

"Obama messed everything up so people are moving"

What exactly is the link between Obama and states like CA, MD and CO passing feel good laws out of fear and ignorance?
If there is some mechanism where Obama is controlling the function of these states instead of the states own government we would really like to know more about it.

"family-related"

To me that could mean they didn't want to live in the ghetto or send their kids to a school that only prepares you for prison life.

"employment-related"

There is a very strong relationship between legislation and employment rates. Ask Toyota, Beretta, MagPul, yohohama tire.
(yoko is spending what will eventually amount to up to 5 billion dollars building the most modern tire plant in north america from the ground up in a very red non unionized state)

"housing-related"

Again people want better housing. In most of MD $100k will get you a crack house in the ghetto.

I am moving to texas next year because they have figured out how to steal jobs and business away from other states who have had their governments infected by liberalism.
I am going there because job opportunities are better and because housing is cheaper.
Am I worried the liberal states will learn from their mistakes and change their ways, stealing jobs back? HA, no that will be the day.
The liberal states have shown in times like this they will continue to do the exact same thing that got them into their current mess. They will stick to that policy, maybe make a bigger version of it and will just expect a different result.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:28,811
Points:1,598,275
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 12:36:19 PM

The patriotism of prosperity
.
.
>>> A few weeks ago, it was quite revealing -- but not surprising -- to hear Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew imply that corporate America should willingly pay the highest corporate-tax rates in the world as part of its "patriotic" duty. This kind of discourse demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of capitalism, which is an important component of American exceptionalism.

In our system, people do not go into business, in many cases risking everything they have and more, in order to support the government. They obviously take those kinds of risks to make money. Instead of chastising American businesses for making financially prudent overseas investments, a wise and understanding government would be creating a domestic environment that is conducive to investment, innovation and growth, reducing the appeal of foreign explorations. A fair tax structure and a reduction in unnecessary regulations would go a long way toward establishing this environment. <<<

There are consequences for actions. If the govt on a local level makes it more expensive to live there over time people move out. Likewise at the state of country level.
.
.
TANSTAAFL people.
.
.


[Edited by: flyboyUT at 8/13/2014 12:36:49 PM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,769
Points:636,000
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 12:28:33 PM

"Did they SAY that is why they left?"

The gun manuafacturers did.
Isn't it obvious why they would move?
Liberal stupidity infecting government
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 12:17:44 PM

"Same reason Toyota left cali and the gun manufactures left CO and MD.
Liberal stupidity infecting government."

Did they SAY that is why they left?

Do you have some evidence of this?

Or is it simply your conclusion.
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,836
Points:458,125
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Aug 13, 2014 9:21:56 AM

Thanks for finding that Mark.

And as we can see, no actual survey questions are shown. Only the description of them.

So, was there some part of 'an additional option to write-in reasons that did not fit into any of the predetermined choices' that you feel was unclear, AFSNCO?

And the 18 common reasons. Do you contend they were plucked from thin air by liberals? Or could it be they were the result of previous phone surveys or all write-in surveys? That information is not readily available either. But I suspect it is a safe assumption to believe there was some kind of unbiased process there. Unless you are contending they contracted this work out to huffpo.
Post a reply Back to Topics