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Author Topic: Zero Tolerance = Zero common sense - It's time to homeschool Back to Topics
HotRod10
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Wyoming

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 10:36:19 AM

The government schools have gone crazy. If it's not a kid getting strip-searched and "evaluated" for 5 hours for twirling a pencil, it's 2nd grade math problems an engineer can't figure out.

At least once a week, I see something that makes me say "Thank God my kids are homeschooled".

Have you considered homeschooling? If so, why haven't done it?

Won't even consider it? Why not?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2015 12:56:58 AM

"You get what you pay for, in teaching as in everything else."

Except that many of the teachers leaving the public school system are going to lower paying jobs in private schools. Private schools pay less, but apparently treat the teachers better.

"I have had one 1% COLA pay increase in seven years now."

Many private-sector workers have seen their pay cut in the last few years. Even some state governments (like our neighbor, Colorado) have furloughed many of their employees several days a month, effectively cutting their pay by 10% to 20%.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2015 7:24:56 PM

>>"I would think you are doubling down on yours. You are the one who said that no one has ever been killed by a crossword puzzle."

Um, I pointed out yours with said comment... Knifes, guns, etc have nothing to do with the story.<<

I was pointing out that there is zero tolerance for the students but teachers get a pass when they do something they should know is wrong.
teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2015 5:53:04 PM

I have had one 1% COLA pay increase in seven years now. Do you realize how much getting no pay raise affects my retirement down the road? I do. Teachers are leaving my school system in greatly increasing numbers and the system is having trouble filling vacant positions in science and math. You get what you pay for, in teaching as in everything else.

Next time you need surgery, look for the lowest paid doctor you can find. Hope you have a good outcome there.

[Edited by: teacher_tim at 3/4/2015 5:53:31 PM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2015 5:39:17 PM

"Wow, you really are buying into your own crap."

Better than buying into yours...

Shall I make the same assumption that you did about waving the white flag on the other issues? (It is "waving" not "waiving", btw. <<insert public school joke here>>)

Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2015 9:10:44 PM

"How is it "teacher-hating" to balk at the idea of teachers chasing the almighty paycheck? I think your comment was the one insulting to public school teachers - saying that they'd leave the public school system for money."

You are right of course. How silly of me to think that professional educators should be so charitable so as to donate whatever is necessary out of their pockets such that the District can maintain all of its programs by accepting cuts and pay freezes without question while the rest of the population looks to increase their take-home pay. They should meekly take what they are given and be happy for it. You are right, I insulted them, not you...

Wow, you really are buying into your own crap.

"Besides, my state has statewide salary tables for teachers. I doubt if any other states have teacher salaries set at the district level"

Because a homeschooler is apparently so knowledgeable about what they don't know <s> . More evidence proving my above assertion. You just stuck your foot in your mouth with that one, your ignorance is on clear display. What an embarrassing (incorrect) assumption to post for all to see.

"Ok, since you insist on making an a$$ out of yourself, here goes:"

You apparently haven't been looking in the mirror lately, kiddo.

SMH
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2015 6:31:27 PM

"Just more teacher-hating,"

How is it "teacher-hating" to balk at the idea of teachers chasing the almighty paycheck? I think your comment was the one insulting to public school teachers - saying that they'd leave the public school system for money.

Besides, my state has statewide salary tables for teachers. I doubt if any other states have teacher salaries set at the district level, so your argument that lower test scores would would lead to losing teachers due to pay cuts is bogus, anyway.

"Like I said... Waiving the white flag."

Ok, since you insist on making an a$$ out of yourself, here goes:

"Decreased funding for the districts mean budget cuts - this typically means increased class sizes, no specials (art/gym/music), etc."

If the district can only find important programs to cut, they're not looking very hard. Public schools get more than twice as much per student as tuition at a typical Catholic school. It's only the involvement of the feds that created this problem to begin with - no Dept. of Ed., no problem.

"Sure, tell your kids not to let cops 'bully' them because they don't think they were driving drunk (not saying your kids would, it is just an example)."

You're comparing opting out of a test to breaking the law? Did you pull a muscle with that stretch?

"You don't enact change through quitting, you work within the process"

Tell that to our founding fathers. When the system becomes so large and so corrupt that it can no longer be changed from within, it must be removed and replaced.

Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2015 3:10:21 PM

"No, I just didn't see any arguments worthy of a response or requiring a rebuttal."

Like I said... Waiving the white flag.

""negatively influencing a teacher's pay will also cause a loss of good talent", by saying ROTFLMAO."

Just more teacher-hating, despite your saying the opposite. <shrug>
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2015 1:04:32 AM

"I'll take that as your waiving the white flag on the 'opting out' issue..."

No, I just didn't see any arguments worthy of a response or requiring a rebuttal. Your responses utterly fail on their own, with no help from me. My original arguments stand; I saw no reason to repeat them.

Since you seem insistent, I will respond to your statement, "negatively influencing a teacher's pay will also cause a loss of good talent", by saying ROTFLMAO.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 3/3/2015 1:09:07 AM EST]
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2015 12:56:30 PM

"For someone who yells "Strawman" at every opportunity (even when the term doesn't apply), you create quite a few of your own."

Interesting that was the only response you commented on. I'll take that as your waiving the white flag on the 'opting out' issue...
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2015 12:40:43 PM

"Sure, tell your kids not to let cops 'bully' them because they don't think they were driving drunk"

For someone who yells "Strawman" at every opportunity (even when the term doesn't apply), you create quite a few of your own.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2015 12:15:23 PM

"Not a ramification to the student."

In what world do you live in? Decreased funding for the districts mean budget cuts - this typically means increased class sizes, no specials (art/gym/music), etc.

Arbitrarily negatively influencing a teacher's pay will also cause a loss of good talent, thus further diminishing the quality of a kid's education.

Hello? I had to explain this?

Yikes.

"I think it's a great life lesson. Learning to say no to things that are not required, learning to read the "fine print", and not allowing yourself to be bullied by those who try to exert authority over you that they don't actually have, are all important life lessons."

Sure, tell your kids not to let cops 'bully' them because they don't think they were driving drunk (not saying your kids would, it is just an example). You don't enact change through quitting, you work within the process - something most of our politicians, as well as their constituents, seem to be forgetting.

"You were all for students in Colorado walking out to protest the school district's treatment of teachers."

And yet another strawman.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2015 9:39:59 AM

"1)...This can affect funding allocation to both the district as well as performance-based raises for the teacher."

Not a ramification to the student.

"2)...Opting out tells kids that if you don't like something, you can simply 'opt out' of it or 'quit'...Not a good life lesson to teach kids."

I think it's a great life lesson. Learning to say no to things that are not required, learning to read the "fine print", and not allowing yourself to be bullied by those who try to exert authority over you that they don't actually have, are all important life lessons.

"3) It is not well understood what affect this has on the student's records yet."

According to the district, the students may not be able to graduate. We'll see if that stands. Almost 900 students have already been opted out, and many more plan to walk out of the tests.

You were all for students in Colorado walking out to protest the school district's treatment of teachers. Why the change of heart when it comes to students exercising their rights now? Oh wait, in Colorado the students were following the direction of the teachers' union, and this time they are defying the will of the teachers' union.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2015 10:34:18 AM

"You're the one that minimized the incident..."

So yo don't understand what a strawman is either. Noted.

"Ok, enlighten me; what are the ramifications to the student of opting out?"

1) Opting out means the school district receives a 0 for that student, needlessly hurting the school district's score as well as the score used to asses the effectiveness of the teacher. This can affect funding allocation to both the district as well as performance-based raises for the teacher.

2) Opting out tells kids that if you don't like something, you can simply 'opt out' of it or 'quit'. Don't like math? Opt out. Don't like paying taxes? Opt out. Not a good life lesson to teach kids.

3) It is not well understood what affect this has on the student's records yet. some say the student receives a zero, others say the ramifications depend on the individual school district.

Bottom-line - what is the benefit, given all of these unintended negatives? Parents satisfying their political ideology? Seems rather selfish.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2015 10:17:39 AM

"I would think you are doubling down on yours. You are the one who said that no one has ever been killed by a crossword puzzle."

Um, I pointed out yours with said comment... Knifes, guns, etc have nothing to do with the story.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 9:49:25 PM

>>LOL - so you are doubling-down on your strawman?<<


I would think you are doubling down on yours. You are the one who said that no one has ever been killed by a crossword puzzle. I just pointed out that no one had ever been killed by a spent shell casing or a knife that unknowingly left in a car.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 6:22:10 PM

"And yet another strawman."

You're the one that minimized the incident, saying "Nobody was ever killed by a crossword puzzle", making the standard for what's worthy of opposition whether or not it kills someone. If the it is a strawman argument, it was your strawman, Weaslespit.

"You clearly have no idea either of the ramification of 'opting out'..."

Ok, enlighten me; what are the ramifications to the student of opting out?

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 2/28/2015 6:23:47 PM EST]
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 2:29:56 PM

"Once again, your low opinion of students and parents is on full display. Gotta protect the stupid kids and their stupid parents from their own stupidity, eh Weaslespit? Typical "Big Brother knows best" mentality; I expected as much."

I have zero opinions of students, as they are students. Parents, yes, there are many that I have low opinions of given their lack of involvement with their kids, or worse, using their kids as tools out of a lack of understanding.

You clearly have no idea either of the ramification of 'opting out'...

"So, if it doesn't kill anyone directly or immediately, it's not a danger? A curious attitude."

And yet another strawman.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 1:11:33 PM

"Unfortunately for the 8th Grader, she likely has no idea of the negative ramifications of 'opting out', as I would suspect her parents don't."

Once again, your low opinion of students and parents is on full display. Gotta protect the stupid kids and their stupid parents from their own stupidity, eh Weaslespit? Typical "Big Brother knows best" mentality; I expected as much.

"Strawman. Nobody was ever killed by a crossword puzzle, regardless of the content."

So, if it doesn't kill anyone directly or immediately, it's not a danger? A curious attitude.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 10:15:39 AM

""...Silva started handing out the opt-out forms on Thursday. It didn’t take long for school officials to intervene.

“They started pulling the fliers out from the kids’ hands,” Silva told KRQE-TV."

Unfortunately for the 8th Grader, she likely has no idea of the negative ramifications of 'opting out', as I would suspect her parents don't.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 10:14:13 AM

"Compassion? Always."

Lol, define it however you need to fit your narrative.

"I harbor no anger or hatred towards the institution, that would be pointless and illogical, as much as having blind love for the institution. I also hold no ill will against any of the people involved in the public education system, most of them are good-hearted people trying to do right by the students. It's sad to see so many of them frustrated in their attempts to do good by a system that has been taken over by a Marxist government bureaucracy only interested indoctrinating its future subjects."

I 100% agree (until you went off the deep end again on your 'indoctrination of future subjects'), unfortunately your links and subsequent comments don't bear-out this opinion...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2015 10:10:43 AM

"No one has ever been killed by a knife that was unknowingly left in a car either. No one has ever been killed by a spent shell cassing but students have been susspended for that to."

LOL - so you are doubling-down on your strawman?
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2015 3:58:40 PM

Eighth-Grader Informs Classmates of State Standardize Test ‘Opt-Out’ - gets suspended.

"...Silva started handing out the opt-out forms on Thursday. It didn’t take long for school officials to intervene.

“They started pulling the fliers out from the kids’ hands,” Silva told KRQE-TV.

The eight-grader was then taken to the principal’s office, where she reportedly waited for nearly an hour and a half when she should have been in class. But the student didn’t actually break any rules — the opt-out form is even available on the school district’s website."
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2015 10:26:34 AM

Students Bow to Sun God in Public School Yoga Program

"District officials insist they have removed any religious materials from the program, which still includes things like assorted "praying hands" positions. A lower court found that the students were also required to do things like bow to the Hindu sun god Surya.

The court ruled that yoga is religious. It also ruled that the school district's yoga practices are identical to religious yoga practices.

Then it ruled that the district could go ahead with the program anyway."

HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2015 1:42:58 AM

"I'm certain you see this as the only possibility, since it fits your narrative."

That's what the student said happened, and so far no one has claimed otherwise. You're arguing under an assumption that no one involved has proffered. So who is it that's ignoring the reality in favor of their own speculative narrative?

"Have you not read your posts? Your constant raging on public education?"

I don't have to read my posts, I know what I wrote, and unlike you, I'm not guessing as to my state of mind when I wrote them. Yes, I think the public education system in this country is rotting, and I'm attempting to show just how bad the decay has become. I harbor no anger or hatred towards the institution, that would be pointless and illogical, as much as having blind love for the institution. I also hold no ill will against any of the people involved in the public education system, most of them are good-hearted people trying to do right by the students. It's sad to see so many of them frustrated in their attempts to do good by a system that has been taken over by a Marxist government bureaucracy only interested indoctrinating its future subjects.

I would say that I don't understand why you think I'm angry, but I do understand. You get angry at what I write, so you think I must be angry. The education of the next generation is important to me; the future of the country depends on it. Anger? Rage? Hatred? No on all counts. Compassion? Always. The most compassionate thing is to show people the truth, even if it hurts. Pity? Yes, for those who refuse to see the truth.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 10:22:37 PM

>>"Students have been suspended or expelled because school staff found a knife in the students car, a work knife left in the care by the students father, not in the classroom but in a car on the parking lot."

Strawman. Nobody was ever killed by a crossword puzzle, regardless of the content.<<

No one has ever been killed by a knife that was unknowingly left in a car either. No one has ever been killed by a spent shell cassing but students have been susspended for that to.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:36:19 PM

"You say that like the puzzle just wandered into the classroom on its own."

I have already been quite clear as to what I think happened...

"The teacher made copies of it and gave them to the students. There's no way around it - it was "intentionally brought into the classroom setting.""

I'm certain you see this as the only possibility, since it fits your narrative.

"I'm not outraged. If I got outraged every time something like this happened, I'd be in a constant state of rage."

Have you not read your posts? Your constant raging on public education?

SMH
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:34:08 PM

"Students have been suspended or expelled because school staff found a knife in the students car, a work knife left in the care by the students father, not in the classroom but in a car on the parking lot."

Strawman. Nobody was ever killed by a crossword puzzle, regardless of the content.

"Students have been suspended for drawing pictures of guns or playing at killing terrorists and throwing imaginary hand grenades."

And it is entirely possible that the person responsible will also receive some type of disciplinary action.

"For teens and even preteen students there is "zero tolerance"."

If that were the case, according to your definition these teens should be expelled for any infraction, not merely suspended...
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 8:50:33 PM

""This opinion is based on conjecture, since you assume it was intentionally brought into the classroom setting.""

It may or may not have been brought into the classroom intentionally. It was brought into the school intentionally, something that should never have been done at all. Students have been suspended or expelled because school staff found a knife in the students car, a work knife left in the care by the students father, not in the classroom but in a car on the parking lot. Students have been suspended for having air soft guns before school, not on school property. Students have been suspended for drawing pictures of guns or playing at killing terrorists and throwing imaginary hand grenades. For teens and even preteen students there is "zero tolerance". For the adults on the other hand the is much tolerance and acceptance, unless they promote a Christian view of morality, then it's called a constitutional violation.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 1:35:50 PM

"...you assume it was intentionally brought into the classroom setting."

You say that like the puzzle just wandered into the classroom on its own. It wasn't just carelessly left lying around, either. The teacher made copies of it and gave them to the students. There's no way around it - it was "intentionally brought into the classroom setting."

"The rest of your post is more manufactured outrage"

I'm not outraged. If I got outraged every time something like this happened, I'd be in a constant state of rage. I just want to encourage parents to make a conscious and informed decision about where they are placing their children.

I also try inform them that they do have a choice in their child's education, that they don't need to be an "education professional" or a professional of any kind to provide a stellar education at home, and that there are benefits to home education that go far beyond our current definition of education. To quote again from the article I linked to on Sunday:

"All of that, in turn, is still less crucial than the fact that education fundamentally is the pursuit and development of knowledge, and you just cannot separate factual knowledge from moral knowledge. The two are wrapped up in each other. No matter what anyone says, whoever teaches your child about the facts of existence will also be giving her answers to the deeper questions like why she exists and what it means to exist."

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 2/24/2015 1:36:15 PM EST]
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 10:24:49 AM

"This is someone who is responsible for shaping young minds who demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what is appropriate to expose 8th graders to and showed incredibly poor judgment in bringing those materials into the classroom without authorization."

This opinion is based on conjecture, since you assume it was intentionally brought into the classroom setting.

The rest of your post is more manufactured outrage - par for the course I'm afraid.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:54:02 AM

"I don't think anybody deserves to be fired in this case,"

This is someone who is responsible for shaping young minds who demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what is appropriate to expose 8th graders to and showed incredibly poor judgment in bringing those materials into the classroom without authorization. You would give the teacher a pass because this is the first time they got caught?

As a parent who cares deeply about raising my children unencumbered by the crippling effects of addiction to pornography (including "soft porn", like 50 Shades of Grey), I would not trust my children to this person, nor to a school administration that would let them off so lightly.

Of course, I don't have to worry about what someone who I barely know will expose my children to or teach them, and Weaslespit is obviously OK with children being exposed to the sleazy and perverse. For others who read this I would just ask, do you know who's raising your kids?
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 8:57:45 AM

"Weasle; would you be as forgiving if this was a word search that included racist terms or words like lynching, certain food associated with minorities, KKK, aryan nation ect. is that somehow different?"

Nope, no different at all.

"Should people only be fired for what offends you but not for what doesn't offend you?"

Cleary not. I don't think anybody deserves to be fired in this case, as long as it wasn't a 'repeat offender'...
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2015 9:56:57 PM

Attention Small Government Conservatives: You Should All Be Homeschool Advocates

"Plato said that education is the acquisition of virtue. We, on the other hand, like to pretend that education can be one thing and virtue can be acquired entirely separate from it. Not a surprising delusion, considering it comes from the same society that complains about “bias in the media” as if there ever has been or ever could be an unbiased media. Whoever disseminates information will do it through their own partisan lens, and whoever provides education will provide it in the context of their own moral understanding of things. This is the case, it always has been the case, and it always will be the case. Period."

"Homeschooling isn’t a magic pill. There’s nothing magical about it. It’s a deliberate and, from what I’ve been told, sometimes painful process. But if we ever reached the point in our nation where even 25 or 30 percent of our kids are educated in the home by their parents, and oriented to life by adults who love them rather than their peers who most definitely don’t love them and teachers who might care about them but who have 300 other students to worry about, then we might see some real progress."

johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 4:10:47 PM

>>There are no children around my office either, generally no even in the building, but the puzzle in question would not be acceptable here either.<<

In my work place children are not only not around they are strictly prohibited from being in the shop. The work force in the shop is 99.9% male. The only time we get any females in the shop is when the officer workers bring some paperwork into the area or an occasional vendor. We still do not allow any sexually oriented material. No old Play Boys, no calendars with topless girls, no bikini calendars and sexy pictures of wives or girlfriends in tool boxes. We do not allow any sexual, racist or political jokes in E-mails sent to or from company E-mail addresses.

Violation of any of these policies has always resulted in discipline. The main reason is concern that someone will file a harassment or discrimination charge. All it takes one complaint.

Weasle; would you be as forgiving if this was a word search that included racist terms or words like lynching, certain food associated with minorities, KKK, aryan nation ect. is that somehow different? It would have just been an accident and poor judgment. Should people only be fired for what offends you but not for what doesn't offend you?


[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 2/19/2015 4:14:19 PM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 2:27:01 PM

ADHD Definitely Doesn’t Exist, But If It Did I Would Have It

"I think most of us can look at that list [of ADHD symptoms] and viscerally recognize it as a load of unholy bull crap. There are many reasons to view ADHD as a fraud, but let’s start with the fact that at the very beginning, before you take one step into the issue, it already makes no sense. Impulsive? Impatient? These are personality traits, not medical conditions.

Daydream? Talk a lot? Interrupt? These are behaviors, not symptoms of a disease. And not just any behaviors or any personality traits, but exceedingly normal ones for children. Probably the most normal ones you could possibly name.

Now you might say, well yes, they’re normal, but some kids, like, talk A LOT, and daydream A LOT, and interrupt A LOT.

To that I’d respond: yeah, still pretty normal.

Have you met kids recently? If not, I’d like to introduce you sometime. I’ve never encountered one who doesn’t act this way, and I’ve encountered plenty of kids. I have two of my own, plus I grew up with six siblings, I went to public school, my mom runs a daycare, and I have nine nieces and nephews under the age of 10. I’m around kids all the time. Come to Thanksgiving at the Walsh household this year — it’s madness. Daydreaming, fidgeting, running, interrupting all over the place. And that’s just me. Wait until all the kids show up."

"ADHD is not a matter of psychology or neurology, but of institutions. Schools can’t deal with kids who act this way, parents don’t want to deal with them, daycares aren’t equipped to deal with them, and society at large has no patience for any of it — so, we call it a disease and start passing out the prescription strength speed.

Does any Actual Illness work this way? If you go to the doctor complaining about bronchitis, will he ask you if the bronchitis is “creating problems at work on an ongoing basis”? No, because that doesn’t matter. Bronchitis is bronchitis is bronchitis. But ADHD is only ADHD in very specific circumstances. Public school, by the way, is a very specific (and temporary) circumstance. A child’s inability to succeed in that environment might be troubling for his parents, but it is not itself proof or indication of a mental defect. Why don’t we ever stop to consider that the defect lies in the institution that cannot function unless millions of its students are hopped up on drugs?"

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 2/19/2015 2:29:25 PM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 1:42:58 PM

"Strange, I never considered a crossword puzzle as porn."

You're the one who was arguing that it doesn't matter whether the material is inappropriate for children as long as it stays in the teacher's lounge. Where do you draw the line? How sleazy does it have to be before it's unprofessional for someone who is shaping the lives of young children?

As insightful as this rabbit trail has been, it's still a rabbit trail. The word search did not stay in the "adults only" sectors of the school. Regardless of where it originated, a teacher made copies and handed it out to students in a classroom. That is not an accident; it is a purposeful act that reveals a lack of morals and a complete lack of judgment on the part of the teacher. The weak response on the part of the administration indicates that either the behavior of the teacher is acceptable (but getting caught requires the appearance of outrage), or the administration is unable to do anything substantial.
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 1:00:29 PM

"I bet you get uncomfortable even saying words like "bondage"..."

No, not really, but I always chuckle when I see "Bridge Erection" on a cost estimate.

"And it appears you can't take a joke. I am sure most of your co-workers understand that, hence you are not included in them."

It has nothing to do with me. Everyone in my office is expected to act in a professional manner. Unlike federal employees, we have a code of conduct that we are expected to follow, or we can expect to be fired.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 11:21:50 AM

"So, for teachers it's ok to have porn on school grounds, as long as it's not in the classroom...now I really want to send my kids to public school."

Strange, I never considered a crossword puzzle as porn. My, you are conservative!

What kind of movies are available that feature 'pornographic' crossword puzzles, I wonder?

"There are no children around my office either, generally no even in the building, but the puzzle in question would not be acceptable here either."

And it appears you can't take a joke. I am sure most of your co-workers understand that, hence you are not included in them. I bet you get uncomfortable even saying words like "bondage"... Typical attitude of ultra-conservative people where the very mention of anything sexual makes them squeamish, much less the pornographic sight of an unsightly ankle or *gasp!* calf at work and/or a belly button at the pool/gym!
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 10:21:03 AM

"And they are not present in the 'Teacher's Lounge', etc..."

So, for teachers it's ok to have porn on school grounds, as long as it's not in the classroom...now I really want to send my kids to public school.

There are no children around my office either, generally no even in the building, but the puzzle in question would not be acceptable here either. Apparently even some government agencies (granted it's state government, not federal) have higher standards than you would expect of public schools.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2015 4:49:23 PM

"Projecting again, I see."

Yet another example that you do not understand the term 'projecting'.

"As usual, you completely missed the point, or purposefully ignored it."

Now, this is projecting!

"...but having sexually explicit printed materials will get you fired from any job where children may be present..."

And they are not present in the 'Teacher's Lounge', etc... But I know, OMG, the 'S'-word! You are only supposed to say the 'S'-word behind closed doors under the sheets with your spouse (of the opposite sex)!

SMH
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2015 2:23:05 PM

"Yet in most work places such jokes are still made, just with a smaller audience."

Off color jokes may be told, and may even be tolerated, but having sexually explicit printed materials will get you fired from any job where children may be present and most other places as well. Apparently, not federal government employees, though. It seems public schools are close enough to being part of the federal government now, so the same standards are starting to be applied.
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2015 2:12:50 PM

"Yes, make sure that the cycle of hate against homosexuals stays strong"

Projecting again, I see.
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2015 2:11:01 PM

"Or do you think they are insulated somehow; from a drunk driver, for example?"

They are prepared for drunk drivers at least as well as any public school student. I've taught my oldest to drive cautiously and defensively, which he does. He's also better prepared than most to not be a drunk driver, since he doesn't drink like many of his peers.

As usual, you completely missed the point, or purposefully ignored it. Children are raised; they are not thrust into the adult world as babies. If they are raised properly, they will be able to navigate a world fraught with a dangers of all sorts. If they are raised poorly, they will enter the world of adulthood unable to see the dangers, or worse yet, already entangled in them. Who's raising your kids? Do you even know?

The question I ask of myself constantly is whether my wife and I are adequately preparing our children for the world they will face. I trust in our commitment, abilities and resolve to do that over anyone else. No school teacher cares as much for my children as I do, nor bears the responsibility for the type of adults they will become.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2015 1:08:59 PM

"To you it's deplorable"

To anybody with a shred of common sense, it is deplorable. Thanks for identifying your lacking...

"When my children are mature, I only have to trust them and their ability to make good decisions."

You do realize that even if they make 'all' of the right decisions, you still trust everybody else around them to do the same, right? Or do you think they are insulated somehow; from a drunk driver, for example?

"Until they are mature, it is my responsibility as a parent to protect them and at the same time teach them who to trust and who not to."

Yes, make sure that the cycle of hate against homosexuals stays strong ;) Gotta love indoctrination....
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2015 1:05:10 PM

"The company I work for prohibits any sexually oriented material"

Yet in most work places such jokes are still made, just with a smaller audience.

"If it is not brought to the school it cannot be mistakenly distributed."

Agreed - and I'm sure that will be a point of emphasis for the staff not just of the offending school, but the entire District.

"Teacher Buys Student "Fifty Shades of Grey" for Reading Class"

Another clear example of somebody making a mistake.... But, let's look at the parent's reaction;

"Ladson says when classes resume on Monday, she plans to protest outside the school with other parents"

Because she hasn't taught her son what is appropriate reading material? Her son is a 'victim'? Please...

"The school has also enacted a policy that officials must now approve any purchase intended for students, she says."

And now, because of this one mistake, most teachers probably won't bother with more red tape (or previously OK purchases will now be rejected due to an overly cautious review). Sad that one kid can ruin it for the rest...
johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2015 6:03:16 PM

>>>If that was the case, why was the puzzle immediately taken back from the students when it was recognized? OR was it indeed simply that - a mistake?

Too many paranoid people 'round these parts... Here is something more plausible - somebody was playing a joke amongst the staff and it went awry. But I know, you can't turn that kind of reasoning into political fodder for the talking heads to disseminate ad nauseam to be parroted on the internet.<<<

The company I work for prohibits any sexually oriented material. Even the Rams Cheerleader calendars have been questioned by some. The point is this kind of material has no place in a school. If it is not brought to the school it cannot be mistakenly distributed.
johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2015 5:34:09 PM

"When a teacher provides a copy 50 shades of grey for a 14 year old it's called a mistake"

Link?

Teacher Buys Student "Fifty Shades of Grey" for Reading Class

HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2015 5:24:30 PM

"No good parent doesn't give their children the best opportunities to succeed in life."

Ahh, but the definition of success varies. I suspect, actually I know, what I consider success is different than what you would consider success, which is different than what their school teacher considers success. Whose definition do you want your children to live by?

"Withholding critical documentation is deplorable."

To you it's deplorable, but then you aren't the girl's parent and you don't know anything about the situation. Once again your arrogance is on display.
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2015 5:11:19 PM

"when you let your children out free into the world, you have to trust EVERYBODY."

When my children are mature, I only have to trust them and their ability to make good decisions.

Young children are not "out free" in the world for the very reason that they have not matured. Until they are mature, it is my responsibility as a parent to protect them and at the same time teach them who to trust and who not to. Young children are by nature impressionable and vulnerable to harm. They must be nurtured and must mature before being on their own in the world of adults. Trusting in your children's ability to make good decisions as adults is a lot easier to do when you know how they were raised and what they've been taught.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2015 4:44:27 PM

"My assertion has everything to do with the subject..."

It doesn't, but whatever...

"but it's a fairly popular opinion"

Not nearly as popular as the book(s)... especially amongst women.

"The bigger problem here is that no one other than the teacher really knows what's going on in the classroom."

Here's the thing - when you let your children out free into the world, you have to trust EVERYBODY. OMG!!! ;)

Given what I have seen from a 'minority' of parents who fancy themselves educators, I certainly don't trust their character. No good parent doesn't give their children the best opportunities to succeed in life. Withholding critical documentation is deplorable.
HotRod10
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2015 4:39:16 PM

"I was responding to your assertion that "50" promotes abuse of women - which has nothing to do with the subject"

My assertion has everything to do with the subject, which was giving inappropriate materials to children. Yes, whether "50" promotes abuse is a matter of opinion, but it's a fairly popular opinion. Regardless, it is still inappropriate for children and should not be promoted to them. Apart from the content of the book, a word search with sexually explicit words is inappropriate anyway.

The bigger problem here is that no one other than the teacher really knows what's going on in the classroom. If one of the students hadn't posted the word search, would anyone outside the classroom have ever known? You have to trust the teacher. I know my kids' teacher very well; how well do you know your child's public school teachers? Have you spent enough time with them to know if they are people of good character? If your child goes to school, nearly half their waking hours are spent under the supervision of a school teacher, more than you spend with them.

"...starting to wonder about your ability to think critically."

Funny, I was wondering the same about you, Weaslespit.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 2/17/2015 4:42:15 PM EST]
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