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Author Topic: Zero Tolerance = Zero common sense - It's time to homeschool Back to Topics
HotRod10

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Wyoming

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 10:36:19 AM

The government schools have gone crazy. If it's not a kid getting strip-searched and "evaluated" for 5 hours for twirling a pencil, it's 2nd grade math problems an engineer can't figure out.

At least once a week, I see something that makes me say "Thank God my kids are homeschooled".

Have you considered homeschooling? If so, why haven't done it?

Won't even consider it? Why not?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 2:41:52 PM

"The adoption of CC by the states means accepting and agreeing to meet the standards as shown by the test scores."

And there were already standardized tests in place historically. more have simply been added, so much more that we are at the point now where curriculum is based on the tests, rather than the standards.

"As it is further implemented and the tests, including the college entrance exams, become fully aligned with the recommended reading material, it will become impossible to pass the tests without the recommended material being taught.

You're on your own on that one, I can't dispel fears based on paranoia, conjecture and innuendo...

"Still living in the fantasy, I see."

You said it yourself (regarding standards not determining curriculum);

"Without the mandate to prove the standards have been met, it's nothing more than a guide to what kids should learn. Those have been around decades and local schools could use them at will."

Standards have been around forever, as has curriculum being decided on by the local School Districts. So please, pick one argument and stick with it...

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 10/24/2014 2:43:50 PM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 2:33:28 PM

"CC, on its own (with no mandated testing, another program botched by the politicians) would be fine as it wouldn't have any bearing on curriculum."

It's all part of it. The adoption of CC by the states means accepting and agreeing to meet the standards as shown by the test scores. Without the mandate to prove the standards have been met, it's nothing more than a guide to what kids should learn. Those have been around decades and local schools could use them at will.

"Please, tell me how kids would be indoctrinated such that they would want to expand government control through literacy standards?"

Literacy standards, the "critical content" requirements, and the "sample texts" are the starting point. As it is further implemented and the tests, including the college entrance exams, become fully aligned with the recommended reading material, it will become impossible to pass the tests without the recommended material being taught.

"This should be interesting folks, grab some popcorn!"

Just don't choke on it.

"Standards do not determine curriculum."

Still living in the fantasy, I see.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 1:21:56 PM

"So, why are you holding out hope for a nationalized education system run by teachers..."

Why would you make that assumption? I know it isn't going to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that it is what 'needs' to happen...

"...rather than support getting the government out of education and returning to local control of education?"

Again - my being against NCLB and RTTT is exactly that.

"...and what have they pushed us towards? Common Core."

Wrong. CC is an add-on that was promoted in RTTT. CC, on its own (with no mandated testing, another program botched by the politicians) would be fine as it wouldn't have any bearing on curriculum.

"You can't have local control of the curriculum or anything else under a nationalized system."

Which only shows what you don't understand. You absolutely can have local control of curriculum under a nationally accepted standard. Standards do not determine curriculum.

"but that won't change the reality and you end up supporting what will destroy education and turn schools into indoctrination centers that work for a government bent on expanding its control."

Which CC has zero influence on. But that would be reality too... Please, tell me how kids would be indoctrinated such that they would want to expand government control through literacy standards? This should be interesting folks, grab some popcorn!
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 12:26:03 PM

"When have I ever said this was plausible? I have maintained that this is what needs to happen - I never said it would be easy."

So, why are you holding out hope for a nationalized education system run by teachers, which isn't going to happen, rather than support getting the government out of education and returning to local control of education?

"I don't disagree, we are on the wrong path given what NCLB and RTTT have pushed us towards."

...and what have they pushed us towards? Common Core. You say you oppose everything that CC is, yet still support it. Standards without testing are not standards, they are guidelines. Curriculum not aligned with the standards and testing results in failure to meet the standards as measured by the tests.

You can't have local control of the curriculum or anything else under a nationalized system. It just won't work that way. You can live in some fantasy where it could work, but that won't change the reality and you end up supporting what will destroy education and turn schools into indoctrination centers that work for a government bent on expanding its control.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have."
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 10:35:46 AM

"Common Core now has less support from teachers than from the general population, because they're the ones that are seeing the effects first. I just hope the understanding spreads before it's too late to undo the damage."

Which is entirely due to the additional standardized testing required. As I have already posted... See below.

"Good luck with that! The federal government relinquishing control over something? When has that ever happened? Or were you under some delusion that an educator could be put in charge of the US Dept. of Ed.? Is that working at the state level? Politicians and bureaucrats is all you'll find in the state offices. Even those who are former educators become politicians; it's the nature of public office."

When have I ever said this was plausible? I have maintained that this is what needs to happen - I never said it would be easy.

"Not yet, but that is the end result of nationalizing the education system. More and more teachers are starting to recognize it; eventually you will too."

I don't disagree, we are on the wrong path given what NCLB and RTTT have pushed us towards. I have said this over and over. The Teacher's Unions have been saying the same. I just made that comment?
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 10:27:38 AM

Support for Common Core is plummeting, especially among teachers.

"...a significant loss of support over the last year — especially among teachers, whose approval rating dropped from 76 percent in 2013 to only 46 percent in 2014. Overall support for the Core dropped from 65 percent last year to 53 percent in 2014..."

Common Core now has less support from teachers than from the general population, because they're the ones that are seeing the effects first. I just hope the understanding spreads before it's too late to undo the damage.

"...educators, and not politicians, need to make policy for Federal education standards..."

Good luck with that! The federal government relinquishing control over something? When has that ever happened? Or were you under some delusion that an educator could be put in charge of the US Dept. of Ed.? Is that working at the state level? Politicians and bureaucrats is all you'll find in the state offices. Even those who are former educators become politicians; it's the nature of public office.

"It DOESN'T mean that the government is deciding all curriculum,"

Not yet, but that is the end result of nationalizing the education system. More and more teachers are starting to recognize it; eventually you will too.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2014 9:16:00 AM

"That's like saying there's a problem with the engine in your car, so you want to remove the engine and then it'll be fine."

Um, no...

"Like it was before the government got involved."

Yes - which is why educators, and not politicians, need to make policy for Federal education standards...

""How to implement standards through curriculum is still dependent on the local authority (School Board and Superintendent)"?"

That is still the case today. You simply misread what was posted;

"Then the curriculum would be based solely at the discretion of the local school districts."

See that word "solely"? It means that they still retain control of curriculum but that there is influence from outside that might limit their options.

It DOESN'T mean that the government is deciding all curriculum, as you seem to believe.

Nice try ;)



[Edited by: Weaslespit at 10/24/2014 9:16:33 AM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 23, 2014 5:42:44 PM

"CC on its own, however, would be fine if its standardized testing were removed."

Yeah, good luck with that. That's like saying there's a problem with the engine in your car, so you want to remove the engine and then it'll be fine.

"Then the curriculum would be based solely at the discretion of the local school districts."

Like it was before the government got involved. Like it is in private schools. Similar to how homeschooling works.

Btw, what happened to your position yesterday, that "How to implement standards through curriculum is still dependent on the local authority (School Board and Superintendent)"?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 23, 2014 8:54:55 AM

"There is no local control of the curriculum anymore, there is only teaching to the test.There is no local control of the curriculum anymore, there is only teaching to the test."

I partially agree with that. We are indeed teaching to the tests, and have been, ever since NCLB was implemented (prior to CC).

CC on its own, however, would be fine if its standardized testing were removed. Then the curriculum would be based solely at the discretion of the local school districts. This is what the teachers, as well as the Teachers Union, want.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2014 1:59:33 PM

"And we agree hotrod that NCLB and RTTT are disasters."

Common Core is just the next step from NCLB, which became the threat used to coerce the acceptance of CC - accept CC or you'll have to meet the requirements of NCLB. RTTT provided the bribe to the states.

"Nationalization of the education system would be fine if the standards developed were developed by educators, rather than politicians and lawyers."

It might be better run by educators, but it's an impossible dream. A nationalized education system will be administrated by the national government, no way around it. Even a system that is not nationalized, but funded in any substantial percentage by the feds, has to fall in line with the mandates of the feds. That's the teeth in NCLB and CC. The feds say "jump" and the state education departments ask "how high" because they can't, or won't, risk losing the federal funding.

"How to implement standards through curriculum is still dependent on the local authority"

Come back to reality, Weaslespit. There is no local control of the curriculum anymore, there is only teaching to the test. The standards and tests dictate the curriculum, otherwise the teacher and the school are labeled failures because they didn't teach the kids what was needed to pass the tests.

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2014 10:44:42 AM

And we agree hotrod that NCLB and RTTT are disasters. Nationalization of the education system would be fine if the standards developed were developed by educators, rather than politicians and lawyers.

How to implement standards through curriculum is still dependent on the local authority (School Board and Superintendent) who are indeed controlled by the community.

Teacher's Unions are a far cry from the UAW, to which your comments more accurately reflect. Teachers Unions have openly fought against NCLB, etc...
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2014 10:19:58 AM

Thanks for linking to that story, Weaslespit.

As I said before, I have nothing but respect for the good, caring teachers. They are doing their best to cope with a system that increasingly doesn't allow them to do their job. My heart goes out to people like the one the story talks about, and I wish I could offer her some hope that it will get better. Sad to say, but as Common Core gets more fully implemented, it will only get worse.

I'm sure I got your hackles up with that last line, but take a look at where all these changes are coming from that are so frustrating the good teachers out there. Do you not see that all the things that are driving this woman (and many other good teachers) toward quitting are the result of nationalizing the education system? Where do you think all of the new requirements of how to teach, what to teach, and all the new testing requirements are coming from? Is it from the local school boards or parents? No, it's being dictated by the requirements of Common Core, which most of the states adopted because of the bribes and coercion from the feds.

This is the result I have been trying to warn about. More and more good teachers are starting to realize they have been kept in the dark and misled by their union leadership that cares more about their own power than whether their members are able to do their jobs well. The union leadership never was interested in improving education. The goal of any labor union is to improve the working conditions and job security of its members. The quality of the outcome is at best a secondary consideration, and more often is sacrificed to meet the goals of the union. In the case of the teacher's union, they have sacrificed not only the quality of the educational system, but in the process, the working conditions of the teachers who care about the children they are supposed to be educating.

From what I've read, there are those teachers who love the new system because they have everything provided for them and they don't have to plan or think about what they're going to teach, and those who hate it because it doesn't allow them the flexibility to teach effectively. The woman in the story is obviously in the latter group, and she has my sympathy.

Correcting the problem begins with identifying the source of the problem, and it's not people like me. The problem is that education has been taken over by the government and is no longer responsive to the local community. Good teachers who care about the students being educated, rather than indoctrinated, are being pushed down or being pushed out by a system that seeks to grow its power.


[Edited by: HotRod10 at 10/22/2014 10:21:57 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2014 8:25:09 AM

"There are amazing teachers, young and old, veterans and rookies, who are starting to eye the exit door. These teachers feel overworked, underpaid, undervalued, deflated, and emotionally and physically exhausted."

People like hotrod who think that Teachers are nothing special and that anybody can do what they do are indeed a big reason why good teachers are quitting.

They truly believe that they are helping but are only making the situation worse, which is in lockstep with our ignorant politicians.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 5:20:41 PM

"And who is the one that asserts gender identity?"

The person wishing to use the facilities, of course, but we trust everyone to be honest, right?
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 4:47:24 PM

"Um, what system is in place now that is stopping 'any' sexual predators (regardless of how they are dressed) from entering women's facilities?"

If there were nothing in place, there would be nothing to change, and you've been arguing for nothing. Obviously, in most places in the US there are still laws in place that make it illegal for biological males to use women's facilities.

"8 (1) CONSISTENT AND UNIFORM ASSERTION OF THE PERSON’S
9 GENDER IDENTITY; OR
10 (2) ANY OTHER EVIDENCE THAT THE GENDER IDENTITY IS
11 SINCERELY HELD AS PART OF THE PERSON’S CORE IDENTITY."

How consistent does the assertion have to be? What evidence is used to determine a "sincerely held" identity? Just because some politician wrote it and got it passed, doesn't make it a good law.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 4:18:17 PM

"8 (1) CONSISTENT AND UNIFORM ASSERTION OF THE PERSON’S
9 GENDER IDENTITY; OR
10 (2) ANY OTHER EVIDENCE THAT THE GENDER IDENTITY IS
11 SINCERELY HELD AS PART OF THE PERSON’S CORE IDENTITY."

And who is the one that asserts gender identity?
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 3:34:37 PM

Or California's education law, where the definition is in Section 210.7 of the Education Code: <<“Gender” means sex, and includes a person's gender identity and gender expression. “Gender expression” means a person's gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person's assigned sex at birth.>>
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 3:24:13 PM

OK, when they write a law about these things, they don't just say, hey, if a dude goes in the ladies' room, that's cool.

They define what it means to be transgender. And then the law applies only to people who meet the definition.

E.g., Maryland's bathroom bill.

"(E) “GENDER IDENTITY” MEANS THE
5 GENDER–RELATED IDENTITY, APPEARANCE, EXPRESSION, OR BEHAVIOR OF A
6 PERSON, REGARDLESS OF THE PERSON’S ASSIGNED SEX AT BIRTH, WHICH MAY
7 BE DEMONSTRATED BY:
8 (1) CONSISTENT AND UNIFORM ASSERTION OF THE PERSON’S
9 GENDER IDENTITY; OR
10 (2) ANY OTHER EVIDENCE THAT THE GENDER IDENTITY IS
11 SINCERELY HELD AS PART OF THE PERSON’S CORE IDENTITY."

[Edited by: sgm4law at 10/21/2014 3:24:23 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 3:01:45 PM

"I know, your argument was we should only let legitimate transgender biological males use women's facilities, but not the sexual predators masquerading as transgendered."

Um, what system is in place now that is stopping 'any' sexual predators (regardless of how they are dressed) from entering women's facilities?

Another strawman.

"If a complaint is made by a user of the facilities, the operator of said facility would ask the person to leave."

How long does it take you to use the restroom? I dunno about you, but by the time anybody came to tell me I needed to leave, I would most likely already be long gone anyway...

"If the person refuses, the police would be called to escort the person out."

What - 30 minutes later? An hour later? If that be the case, the person in there most likely is mentally ill and not 'really' there to just use the facility. Oh, like a sexual predator...

Huh. Strange how that is already an issue that you don't seem to care about.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 2:53:28 PM

"OTOH, if you can't discriminate based on biology, a guy can walk into the local municipal gym, go into the women's locker room, and when questioned say that he identifies as a woman. If the law says they cannot discriminate based on biological gender, then there is no legal basis to restrict his access to the women's locker room."

Oh come on hotrod...nobody would want to do that. I mean, we have no perverts in our society that would figure out that if they declare all facilities open to whomever wants to use them (see Houston's issue) there would be no males take advantage of that, would they?

Obviously this guy is just a transgender individual expressing his rights as a female trapped in a male's body.

Obviously this guy was born with a vagina on the inside.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 2:36:49 PM

"If they can't tell, the "law", or custom, cannot be "enforced"."

If no one knows, then the the whole argument is moot. There's no reason to change the law. If a biological male can pass for a woman, and no one knows otherwise, then there's no complaints and life goes on.

OTOH, if you can't discriminate based on biology, a guy can walk into the local municipal gym, go into the women's locker room, and when questioned say that he identifies as a woman. If the law says they cannot discriminate based on biological gender, then there is no legal basis to restrict his access to the women's locker room.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 1:51:35 PM

<<If a complaint is made by a user of the facilities, the operator of said facility would ask the person to leave.>>

First step is that someone has to be able to tell that the person using the facilities is equipped with the wrong equipment. If they can't tell, the "law", or custom, cannot be "enforced".
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 1:38:14 PM

"Considering that isn't the argument,"

I know, your argument was we should only let legitimate transgender biological males use women's facilities, but not the sexual predators masquerading as transgendered. That would be a fine solution if you can tell me how to make a legal distinction between the two, without discriminating. So far, you have ignored that gaping hole in your argument.

Until you can adequately explain how to legally bar sexual predators masquerading as transgenders from women's facilities while allowing "real" transgenders to use those facilities, you are arguing for legally allowing sexual predators to use women's facilities.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 1:25:57 PM

"Who is enforcing such a ridiculous law?"

If a complaint is made by a user of the facilities, the operator of said facility would ask the person to leave. If the person refuses, the police would be called to escort the person out. I'm surprised someone with "4law" in their name would not understand the basic principles of it.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 1:18:35 PM

"That's still as stupid as it was the first time you made the argument."

Considering that isn't the argument, I agree, it is stupid...

Nice strawman though.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 1:07:08 PM

<<I was saying we don't allow, by law, biological males to use women's facilities around here.>>

Who is enforcing such a ridiculous law?
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 12:50:47 PM

"Only if you ignore reality and pretend attacks from sexual predators in female restrooms will only occur once transgendered rules are applied..."

As long as sexual predators are going to assault women anyway, we should make it easier for them by granting them legal access to women's facilities? That's still as stupid as it was the first time you made the argument.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2014 9:51:25 AM

"Talk about non-sequitur..."

Only if you ignore reality and pretend attacks from sexual predators in female restrooms will only occur once transgendered rules are applied...

SMH
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 9:23:46 AM

"Tell that to the thousands attacked throughout the world every day..."

Talk about non-sequitur...
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 12:54:07 AM

"Tell that to the women in that shelter in Toronto."

Tell that to the thousands attacked throughout the world every day...

"So, because people violate the law, the law should change. That's a great idea. Besides, I'd like to see your evidence. I haven't seen anyone caught around here."

One has nothing to do with the other - that is called a non sequitur.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 9:45:47 PM

"It doesn't make it any less safe."

Tell that to the women in that shelter in Toronto.

"You don't have to, they do it already anyway..."

So, because people violate the law, the law should change. That's a great idea. Besides, I'd like to see your evidence. I haven't seen anyone caught around here.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 10/19/2014 9:50:40 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 12:10:32 PM

"I was saying we don't allow, by law, biological males to use women's facilities around here."

You don't have to, they do it already anyway...

"unless you are trying to suggest that allowing sexual predators access to women's facilities would somehow make it safer for the women."

It doesn't make it any less safe. Tough to grasp, I know.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 18, 2014 11:53:05 PM

"So with the 'known' predators taking advantage of women in the women's restroom, we aren't doing anything to protect them already?"

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I was saying we don't allow, by law, biological males to use women's facilities around here. So, you have it completely backwards, unless you are trying to suggest that allowing sexual predators access to women's facilities would somehow make it safer for the women.

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 4:42:07 PM

"I had to wonder if she tried to make something of it who would be in the wrong?"

Apparently you were lucky you weren't taken advantage of...
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 4:34:25 PM

This reminds me of the time I got surprised by a woman in a mans bathroom.
I had to wizz really bad, walked from front to rear of this large store, stepped in side of the men's room and there was a woman in front of the first stall facing the urinals. She was waiting on her kid while the hubby was near the bathroom but slightly down the aisle outside of the bathroom. I didn't think there were urinals in the women's bathroom but I stepped out side to check the signage. Yep I was in the right place, by now I am ready to pee my pants. I step back in and start peeing; she is standing there watching me. trying to think do I give it a couple extra shakes to insult her or what? As I finished peeing I turned towards her as she was still watching I decided to call her a pervert. She quickly turned around and said sorry. I think she was trying to piss her hubby off for not taking the boy to the bathroom. Sure the women's bathroom was empty, the store was almost empty. I had to wonder if she tried to make something of it who would be in the wrong?

[Edited by: streetrider at 10/17/2014 4:36:46 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 4:28:04 PM

"We don't."

So with the 'known' predators taking advantage of women in the women's restroom, we aren't doing anything to protect them already?

Interesting that you are OK with your Wife and your Daughter being placed in harm's way...

"That's news to me."

I would venture to guess that in Wyoming there aren't many large venues with long lines at the women's facility and short-to-no-lines for the men's facilities (sports, concerts, etc)...

It is a pretty regular occurrence - more regular than a predatory attack, anyway.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 4:14:09 PM

<That's news to me. I haven't heard of that happening around here, maybe where you live, but not here. Anyway, women using men's facilities wouldn't carry the same risks.>

It happens where there is a line at the women's for a single stall bathroom and no one in the men's. Makes no difference that the label on the door says "men" if there is only room for one person.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 4:10:46 PM

"How do you do it now?"

We don't. Biological males are currently not allowed in women's facilities. The incident I linked to happened in Canada, where what you suggest has already been implemented.

"Shoot, women use the men's restroom now as it is!"

That's news to me. I haven't heard of that happening around here, maybe where you live, but not here. Anyway, women using men's facilities wouldn't carry the same risks.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 2:46:21 PM

"And again, how do you make the distinction? If you open up women's facilities to transgendered people, how do keep out the men who dress as women to access those facilities and prey on the women?"

How do you do it now?

Shoot, women use the men's restroom now as it is!
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 2:20:45 PM

"And again, one need not be transgendered to dress as a woman."

And again, how do you make the distinction? If you open up women's facilities to transgendered people, how do keep out the men who dress as women to access those facilities and prey on the women?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 1:18:22 PM

"Yes, dressing as a woman makes it easier for a sexual predator to access areas where women are vulnerable, as was the case with the shelter incident that I linked to."

And again, one need not be transgendered to dress as a woman. Keep making my point.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 11:00:48 AM

It wasn't smug at all. I told you below that is the reason I posted the link and yet you still picked apart the link I posted. It was stats collected by and gathered by the community that is claiming they are persecuted. Why not ask the KKK how they feel about blacks?
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 10:53:40 AM

"You missed the point completely as to why I even posted it."

So smug, as always. I didn't miss your point. You read the posts I made with an eye to the self-reported data, and ignored objective statistics included in the same reports. Wow.
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 10:26:21 AM

.
< "the 'gay' community saying they are persecuted too..." >

. Nobody can tell somebody has succumbed to HOMOSEXUALITY ADDICTION unless they say or do something to make it obvious... or sue because they didn't get Special Homosexuality Addition Special Rights...
.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 10:25:08 AM

"Easier? You don't even have to declare to be transgendered to do the things you are now alluding to."

Yes, dressing as a woman makes it easier for a sexual predator to access areas where women are vulnerable, as was the case with the shelter incident that I linked to.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 10:09:27 AM

"AFSNCO's study, which actually says that whites "believe they experience more racism than African Americans" despite the population wide statistics that show their suffering seems little correlated with economic outcomes. Did you even bother to read that article?"

Exactly...and you posted a link to a study done by the gay community saying they are persecuted too...so what is the difference? You missed the point completely as to why I even posted it. (Which BTW was below...did you even bother to read my post?) Which proves my point...if you ask the target group specific questions to get specific answers guess what? You will get the answers you want to prove what your study was set out to prove!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 9:57:37 AM

"So, if they're going to do it anyway, we should make it easier for them?"

Easier? You don't even have to declare to be transgendered to do the things you are now alluding to.

Good grief.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2014 5:16:26 PM

Just read the whole thing.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2014 5:11:19 PM

AFSNCO's study, which actually says that whites "believe they experience more racism than African Americans" despite the population wide statistics that show their suffering seems little correlated with economic outcomes. Did you even bother to read that article?

a quote: <<There’s a saying that “the new racism is to deny that racism exists.” If that is the case, it may explain a study conducted by researchers from Tufts University’s School of Arts and Sciences and Harvard Business School. Their findings claim that self-described white Americans believe they have “replaced blacks” as the primary victims of racial discrimination in contemporary America.>>

[Edited by: sgm4law at 10/16/2014 5:14:09 PM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2014 4:32:28 PM

"Bingo. So why try blame the starting of a fire on something when it was there already?

Sexual predators are already out and doing what they do, regardless of the laws..."

So, if they're going to do it anyway, we should make it easier for them? Well, that makes a lot of sense. While we're at it, let's just do away with restraining orders and allow domestic abusers to freely walk into the homes of their victims.
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