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Author Topic: Zero Tolerance = Zero common sense - It's time to homeschool Back to Topics
HotRod10
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Wyoming

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 10:36:19 AM

The government schools have gone crazy. If it's not a kid getting strip-searched and "evaluated" for 5 hours for twirling a pencil, it's 2nd grade math problems an engineer can't figure out.

At least once a week, I see something that makes me say "Thank God my kids are homeschooled".

Have you considered homeschooling? If so, why haven't done it?

Won't even consider it? Why not?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2015 2:58:37 PM

"The feds leave it to the locals to try and deal with all the problems created by the policies they mandate from D.C., and take the heat from the parents."

True.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2015 2:48:14 PM

"They don't have the time nor the inclination to call 'all' of the shots,"

Just the important ones. The feds leave it to the locals to try and deal with all the problems created by the policies they mandate from D.C., and take the heat from the parents.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2015 11:07:53 AM

"Well, when it's a big enough chunk, like it is now, that ensures they call all the shots."

They don't have the time nor the inclination to call 'all' of the shots, but they will push their agenda, ie Common Core w/ mandatory testing tied to it (RTTT, NCLB).
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2015 11:37:14 PM

"The biggest authority federal and state governments have over the school boards is funding"

Well, when it's a big enough chunk, like it is now, that ensures they call all the shots.

"I don't see it as being Marxists. I will simply agree to disagree with you there."

It's not the goal of everyone involved for sure; only a small number of people, even within the system, realize what's happening. By the time most people wake up to the truth, it will likely be too late. I hope not, but I'm not going to count on it. You will see it sooner or later; how long you keep the blinders on is up to you.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2015 3:36:30 PM

"However, with the states and feds usurping more and more of the authority over the schools, local school boards have very little say anymore."

This is true only to a certain extent. The biggest authority federal and state governments have over the school boards is funding (ie implementing CC as well as the ridiculous testing to receive federal funding)...

CC has good merits and School Boards could have implemented it if they wanted to. Tying it to federal dollars and then forcing 100% of it onto schools is why there is so much push-back against it.

The part I disagree with you on is the end goal - I don't see it as being Marxists. I will simply agree to disagree with you there.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2015 3:06:13 PM

"The system is and always has been accountable to the parents - and every other tax payer since the School Board positions are elected."

When school boards actually had authority over the schools, that was true. However, with the states and feds usurping more and more of the authority over the schools, local school boards have very little say anymore. For the "public schools" to return to being truly public in nature, government influence, state and federal, as well as the influence of the teachers unions, must end. Return control of the curriculum, testing, discipline, and personnel to the local school boards, and the schools will recover. Continue to nationalize the school system, and it will complete the transformation into nothing more than an indoctrination system for Marxism.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2015 12:43:12 PM

"...but you defend a system that makes those overreaches possible and nonpunishable by taking the oversight out of the hands of the parents whose children are in those schools and even the community that they are supposed to serve."

The system is and always has been accountable to the parents - and every other tax payer since the School Board positions are elected.

It is the Board's responsibility to provide oversight and dole out punishment as necessary for overreaches by Administrators.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2015 10:26:27 AM

"I have agreed with many of the overreaching policies of individual administrators and/or school districts that you have provided links for."

...but you defend a system that makes those overreaches possible and nonpunishable by taking the oversight out of the hands of the parents whose children are in those schools and even the community that they are supposed to serve.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2015 8:06:15 AM

"So what you're saying is 'don't get used to it'..."

It all depends on the content posted - I have agreed with many of the overreaching policies of individual administrators and/or school districts that you have provided links for.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2015 3:09:50 PM

"Thought I'd change it up..."

So what you're saying is 'don't get used to it'...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2015 1:50:27 PM

"You're trying to get rid of me by giving a heart attack, aren't you? ;)"

Thought I'd change it up, catch you off guard ;)
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2015 10:37:46 AM

"I agree."

You're trying to get rid of me by giving a heart attack, aren't you? ;)
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2015 10:35:53 AM

"There should be no penalty at all for "imitation" drugs, just like there shouldn't be penalties for "imitation" weapons like pop tarts, plastic butter knives, and their fingers."

I agree.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2015 10:18:13 AM

"Which is why I indicated a failure of our society in general. We seem to vastly over-penalize in this area."

There should be no penalty at all for "imitation" drugs, just like there shouldn't be penalties for "imitation" weapons like pop tarts, plastic butter knives, and their fingers.



[Edited by: HotRod10 at 3/23/2015 10:18:39 AM EST]
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:42:17 PM

"Happens to Tea Party rallies all the time."

I agree, they are rather offensive ;)

"Well, your intellect is dizzying, or at least circular..."

I must admit, it does run circles around yours which could certainly make you dizzy...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:37:33 PM

"The school suspension was not, because under the state school system's drug policy, possessing "imitation" drugs warrants suspension."

"...but the school system's policy would not necessarily change even if pot was legalized for adults."

Which is why I indicated a failure of our society in general. We seem to vastly over-penalize in this area.

"I agree with you on marijuana laws"

Well, will wonders never cease... ;)
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:30:16 PM

"Exactly why it would be a perfect subversive tactic to be used against a group who was a member of the opposition - plant something offense and then say 'Look! Something offensive!!'."

Happens to Tea Party rallies all the time.

"You can admit you just had your mind blown... ;)"

Well, your intellect is dizzying, or at least circular...

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 3/20/2015 2:32:45 PM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:29:12 PM

"This highlights a failure in our society in general regarding marijuana"

No, the charges were dropped when it was discovered that the leaf was not marijuana. The school suspension was not, because under the state school system's drug policy, possessing "imitation" drugs warrants suspension.

I agree with you on marijuana laws, but the school system's policy would not necessarily change even if pot was legalized for adults.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:20:08 PM

"The group sponsoring the protest is responsible for what happens at their protest. If the banner didn't reflect their values, it's the organizers responsibility to ask them to remove it. That's how it works for everyone else."

Exactly why it would be a perfect subversive tactic to be used against a group who was a member of the opposition - plant something offense and then say 'Look! Something offensive!!'.

You can admit you just had your mind blown... ;)
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:15:37 PM

"Isn't that nice! A high school senior who thinks that saying the Pledge of Allegiance in a foreign language is "the right thing to do"."

During National Foreign Language week? Why wouldn't it be?

If somebody were to feign offense to this idea, one would think it would be an Arab extremist since people would be pledging allegiance to the US in their native tongue.

Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 2:13:23 PM

"6th Grader Suspended for a Year for Bringing Maple Leaf to School"

This highlights a failure in our society in general regarding marijuana - best evidenced by the fact that it is 'still' classified as a schedule 1 drug.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 1:56:58 PM

Arabic version of Pledge of Allegiance at Pine Bush High School ignites furor

"An effort to celebrate national Foreign Language Week by reading the Pledge of Allegiance in Arabic Wednesday has polarized Pine Bush High School into angry factions."

"Andrew Zink, president of the student assembly and senior class president, ordinarily reads the morning announcements. When he was asked to allow the reading to take place in Arabic, he agreed, but added in a telephone interview later, 'I knew exactly what would happen.'

'I knew many wouldn't support it,' he said.

Nevertheless, Zink said he'd do it again, 'Because it's the right thing to do.' "

Isn't that nice! A high school senior who thinks that saying the Pledge of Allegiance in a foreign language is "the right thing to do".
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 11:42:35 AM

6th Grader Suspended for a Year for Bringing Maple Leaf to School

"Earlier this school year, a sixth-grader in the gifted-and-talented program at Bedford Middle School in Bedford, Virginia was suspended for one year after an assistant principal found something that looked like a marijuana leaf in his backpack."

"The student, the 11-year-old son of two schoolteachers, had to enroll in the district’s alternative education program and be homeschooled. He was evaluated by a psychiatrist for substance abuse problems, and charged with marijuana possession in juvenile court. In the months since September, he’s become withdrawn, depressed, and he suffers from panic attacks. He is worried his life is over, according to his mother, and that he will never get into college."

"The only problem? The “leaf” found in the student’s backpack wasn’t what authorities thought it was — it tested negative for marijuana three separate times."

"While the juvenile court dropped its case against the student after the tests turned up negative, the school system, in a community located midway between Roanoke and Lynchburg, has been far less forgiving. That’s because stringent anti-drug policies in school districts in Virginia and elsewhere consider “imitation” drugs to be identical to real ones for disciplinary purposes."

I have to agree with the writer's conclusion: "I guess the one good thing about this whole ordeal is that the “drug user” student had to be homeschooled. More time spent away from these empty-headed school administrators the better."
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 11:23:32 AM

"OK, finally, reality."

The reality is the banner was displayed, uncontested, at their protest, and since most of the people at the protest probably weren't actual members of WJN, their excuse that it wasn't one of their members doesn't mean much. Not that they can support that claim, anyway, since it doesn't appear the protestors carrying the banner have been identified.

The group sponsoring the protest is responsible for what happens at their protest. If the banner didn't reflect their values, it's the organizers responsibility to ask them to remove it. That's how it works for everyone else.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 9:56:38 AM

"Sure, Wisconsin Jobs Now denies the banner belonged to any of their members..."

OK, finally, reality.

Thanks for acknowledging it. Now go find something else to fabricate some more outrage... <s>
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 9:40:31 AM

"So you really are going to 'connect the dots' here?"

Why not. The NEA is giving money to Wisconsin Jobs Now. Do you really want to defend those whackos?

Wisconsin Jobs Now: An Ugly Arm of the Largest Teachers Union

"In a break from their “raise the minimum wage” mantra, WJN has now taken it upon themselves to promote their social agenda concerning police officers. What do they want you to know via Twitter and Facebook?: The police are racists, animals, and killers."

"Those of us who have lived in WI over the past 5 years are not strangers to protests, special interest groups, or despicable behavior; what makes this story so juicy is the fact that it is being funded by educators all over the country who probably have no idea or interest in what is really happening."

"Do they know that WJN focuses on creating hatred toward the very people that keep students safe?"

Sure, Wisconsin Jobs Now denies the banner belonged to any of their members, but no one seemed to object to it at the protest, and it is consistent with their anti-police rhetoric.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 3/20/2015 9:44:03 AM EST]
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 20, 2015 8:53:30 AM

"Nation’s Largest Teachers Union Funded This ‘ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS’ Sign"

So you really are going to 'connect the dots' here?

SMH

Talk about brainwashed.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2015 1:49:51 PM

Nation’s Largest Teachers Union Funded This ‘ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS’ Sign

"A militant Wisconsin group funded heavily by the National Education Association — America’s largest teachers union — unfurled a banner declaring “ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS” at an anti-police protest last week."
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 18, 2015 6:30:39 PM

Common Core Out the Door According to Arizona House

"Arizona is about to join the ranks of states to wise up to the harmful brainwashing program known as Common Core. Last week, the Arizona House of Representatives passed HB2190 by a 34-23 vote. The measure establishes a program to repeal and replace Common Core Standards and to return control of education over to state and local governments and school districts."

"Not receiving as much attention as HB2190 is HB 2246 protects parents’ right to opt their kids out of state testing. This bill also passed the Arizona House and both bills are on the way to the Senate."
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 3:37:40 PM

"Disrupting the test for the other students seems to be a factor you are ignoring;"

If it's an issue, then the district's policies should reflect it, but they don't:

"But the district has no policy that would allow school officials to detain a child under such circumstances, she said.

Bobinski [district spokesman] agreed. “We do not hold children if parents come to pick them up,” she wrote."

Another case of school officials making up unwritten rules as they go, with no regard for the actual guardian of the child.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 12:52:10 PM

"I wouldn't call that catering to parents, or even being answerable to the parent...until someone called the police and forced them to comply."

Disrupting the test for the other students seems to be a factor you are ignoring;

"The school did not want to release the child initially because when her mother arrived students had been testing for 20 minutes and were in the middle of writing essays, said Shari Bobinski, a district spokesman. The principal explained her concern to the mother, she added."
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 11:44:27 AM

"Coming from a homeschooler who 'also' has an abundance of current experience with the public school system?"

How many kids do you currently have in public school?

"demands that her child be followed by a staff member assigned to him to ensure all of the surfaces he touches are free from peanut residue because her child has a peanut allergy?"

Link please.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 11:32:20 AM

"You think the problem with the public schools is they are TOO beholden to the parents?"

When one parent demands that a entire school (which is already peanut-free) also demands that her child be followed by a staff member assigned to him to ensure all of the surfaces he touches are free from peanut residue because her child has a peanut allergy? Darn right there are public schools too beholden to parents whims.

"Thanks; I needed a good laugh this morning. Oh, wait, you're probably serious about that...ok, that's just sad."

Only if you view it as an absolute, which you seem to like to do for most subjects. Each School District varies on a scale of 'beholdeness'. But that is far too complicated for your narrative where all schools don't listen or respect the parents one iota.

"First of all, that's not even close to being true. Public schools don't even listen to parents anymore, much less "cater" to them."

Coming from a homeschooler who 'also' has an abundance of current experience with the public school system? There goes some more of your ever-dwindling credibility. Sad.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 11:09:03 AM

Police called when school refuses to release child to parent.

I wouldn't call that catering to parents, or even being answerable to the parent...until someone called the police and forced them to comply.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 3/10/2015 11:09:34 AM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 10:20:51 AM

"Public schools unfortunately have to cater to parents,"

You think the problem with the public schools is they are TOO beholden to the parents? Thanks; I needed a good laugh this morning. Oh, wait, you're probably serious about that...ok, that's just sad.

First of all, that's not even close to being true. Public schools don't even listen to parents anymore, much less "cater" to them. Second, the schools SHOULD cater to those who are ultimately responsible for the children (I mean the parents, btw).
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 10, 2015 9:41:47 AM

"Exactly. Private schools function so well because they are answerable to the people they serve - the parents."

Public schools unfortunately have to cater to parents, rather than simply be answerable to them.

"There are a lot of steps from where you are to the reality of the situation. Plus, I don't think you're willing to accept what's actually happening, even if I went to all the trouble to lay it out for you."

Projecting again?
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 5:43:43 PM

"They are 'treated' better since they can't be 'treated' by the community at all through voting down funding, etc."

Exactly. Private schools function so well because they are answerable to the people they serve - the parents.

"Clearly you have a lot more work to do here."

Obviously, but I'm not sure I have the time. There are a lot of steps from where you are to the reality of the situation. Plus, I don't think you're willing to accept what's actually happening, even if I went to all the trouble to lay it out for you.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 1:13:15 PM

"If any public school teachers have had their pay cut because students opted out of a test, I'd be very surprised."

Me too, since this inane metric is just being adopted....

"Maybe you should explore a little further why private school are "treated" better than public schools by the community"

They are 'treated' better since they can't be 'treated' by the community at all through voting down funding, etc.

"You might just discover the root of the problem."

Clearly you have a lot more work to do here.

SMH
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 11:36:04 AM

"Yup - I must be posting 'crap', according to hotrod."

If any public school teachers have had their pay cut because students opted out of a test, I'd be very surprised. If any have taken a pay cut because of the students' test scores, it would be a rare occurrence, but in line with how things work in the real world.

"Nay, it isn't the treatment of the teacher by the school, it is the treatment of the school by the community."

Maybe you should explore a little further why private schools are "treated" better than public schools by the community (more specifically, by the parents). You might just discover the root of the problem.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 10:24:27 AM

"I have had one 1% COLA pay increase in seven years now. Do you realize how much getting no pay raise affects my retirement down the road? I do. Teachers are leaving my school system in greatly increasing numbers and the system is having trouble filling vacant positions in science and math. You get what you pay for, in teaching as in everything else."

Yup - I must be posting 'crap', according to hotrod.

SMH
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 10:21:49 AM

"I was pointing out that there is zero tolerance for the students but teachers get a pass when they do something they should know is wrong."

Your analogy was clear, which is why I pointed out for you that it was a strawman. There are other things that are 'wrong' that you could have used as an example, such as cursing at a teacher - but of course that wouldn't carry with it the punishment you are seeking...

SMH
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 10:19:52 AM

"Private schools pay less, but apparently treat the teachers better"

Nay, it isn't the treatment of the teacher by the school, it is the treatment of the school by the community.

BIG difference.

"Many private-sector workers have seen their pay cut in the last few years."

Not in recent years.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2015 10:55:38 AM

6-Year-Old Suspended for Pointing Finger at Classmate and Saying, “Bang, You’re Dead".

"According to his behavior report, an administrator spoke with him about what being dead means and about not confusing “make-believe” or things in games with reality. And he received a one-day suspension for threats against peers."

I think the administrator is the one who needs to be taught about not confusing make-believe and reality.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 3/8/2015 11:00:31 AM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 11:39:48 PM

"At least if I home school I know my kids teacher won't be a drug dealer."

Classic mistake of someone who was trusted by virtue of his position and title. It's a dangerous thing to trust your kids to someone because of the position that they hold rather than by knowing them on a personal level. Even the title of "Reverend" is no guarantee that a person is trustworthy.

"the teacher shot the teen in the back of the head."

...but incredibly the teen survived.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 6, 2015 1:51:09 PM

At least if I home school I know my kids teacher won't be a drug dealer.

In this case a teacher, Reverend, and antigun activist lured one of his students turned drug dealer to a gas station with the promise of drugs and sex. When his student and drug runner showed up the teacher shot the teen in the back of the head. This highly respected teacher was hiding gang tattoos under his clothes.

He had also organized gun buyback programs and was ran antiviolence programs.

Teacher shoots student.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2015 12:56:58 AM

"You get what you pay for, in teaching as in everything else."

Except that many of the teachers leaving the public school system are going to lower paying jobs in private schools. Private schools pay less, but apparently treat the teachers better.

"I have had one 1% COLA pay increase in seven years now."

Many private-sector workers have seen their pay cut in the last few years. Even some state governments (like our neighbor, Colorado) have furloughed many of their employees several days a month, effectively cutting their pay by 10% to 20%.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2015 7:24:56 PM

>>"I would think you are doubling down on yours. You are the one who said that no one has ever been killed by a crossword puzzle."

Um, I pointed out yours with said comment... Knifes, guns, etc have nothing to do with the story.<<

I was pointing out that there is zero tolerance for the students but teachers get a pass when they do something they should know is wrong.
teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2015 5:53:04 PM

I have had one 1% COLA pay increase in seven years now. Do you realize how much getting no pay raise affects my retirement down the road? I do. Teachers are leaving my school system in greatly increasing numbers and the system is having trouble filling vacant positions in science and math. You get what you pay for, in teaching as in everything else.

Next time you need surgery, look for the lowest paid doctor you can find. Hope you have a good outcome there.

[Edited by: teacher_tim at 3/4/2015 5:53:31 PM EST]
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2015 5:39:17 PM

"Wow, you really are buying into your own crap."

Better than buying into yours...

Shall I make the same assumption that you did about waving the white flag on the other issues? (It is "waving" not "waiving", btw. <<insert public school joke here>>)

Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2015 9:10:44 PM

"How is it "teacher-hating" to balk at the idea of teachers chasing the almighty paycheck? I think your comment was the one insulting to public school teachers - saying that they'd leave the public school system for money."

You are right of course. How silly of me to think that professional educators should be so charitable so as to donate whatever is necessary out of their pockets such that the District can maintain all of its programs by accepting cuts and pay freezes without question while the rest of the population looks to increase their take-home pay. They should meekly take what they are given and be happy for it. You are right, I insulted them, not you...

Wow, you really are buying into your own crap.

"Besides, my state has statewide salary tables for teachers. I doubt if any other states have teacher salaries set at the district level"

Because a homeschooler is apparently so knowledgeable about what they don't know <s> . More evidence proving my above assertion. You just stuck your foot in your mouth with that one, your ignorance is on clear display. What an embarrassing (incorrect) assumption to post for all to see.

"Ok, since you insist on making an a$$ out of yourself, here goes:"

You apparently haven't been looking in the mirror lately, kiddo.

SMH
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,968
Points:66,915
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Mar 3, 2015 6:31:27 PM

"Just more teacher-hating,"

How is it "teacher-hating" to balk at the idea of teachers chasing the almighty paycheck? I think your comment was the one insulting to public school teachers - saying that they'd leave the public school system for money.

Besides, my state has statewide salary tables for teachers. I doubt if any other states have teacher salaries set at the district level, so your argument that lower test scores would would lead to losing teachers due to pay cuts is bogus, anyway.

"Like I said... Waiving the white flag."

Ok, since you insist on making an a$$ out of yourself, here goes:

"Decreased funding for the districts mean budget cuts - this typically means increased class sizes, no specials (art/gym/music), etc."

If the district can only find important programs to cut, they're not looking very hard. Public schools get more than twice as much per student as tuition at a typical Catholic school. It's only the involvement of the feds that created this problem to begin with - no Dept. of Ed., no problem.

"Sure, tell your kids not to let cops 'bully' them because they don't think they were driving drunk (not saying your kids would, it is just an example)."

You're comparing opting out of a test to breaking the law? Did you pull a muscle with that stretch?

"You don't enact change through quitting, you work within the process"

Tell that to our founding fathers. When the system becomes so large and so corrupt that it can no longer be changed from within, it must be removed and replaced.

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