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Author Topic: Zero Tolerance = Zero common sense - It's time to homeschool Back to Topics
HotRod10

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Wyoming

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 10:36:19 AM

The government schools have gone crazy. If it's not a kid getting strip-searched and "evaluated" for 5 hours for twirling a pencil, it's 2nd grade math problems an engineer can't figure out.

At least once a week, I see something that makes me say "Thank God my kids are homeschooled".

Have you considered homeschooling? If so, why haven't done it?

Won't even consider it? Why not?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 5:26:55 PM

Keep avoiding the issue, Weaslespit. It just makes it more obvious you're just a space heater.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 3:29:29 PM

"Well, somebody's out of their depth, but it's not me."

Might wanna double-check your surroundings, I look far out to you simply because of your perspective but I am actually on shore.

;)
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 3:14:01 PM

"...you keep wading deeper and deeper"

Well, somebody's out of their depth, but it's not me.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 2:31:39 PM

"Falling back on that old line because you nothing to counter the facts, huh Weaslespit?"

Nope, just using your own words against you as you keep wading deeper and deeper...
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 1:30:44 PM

Falling back on that old line because you nothing to counter the facts, huh Weaslespit? Btw, nice picture.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 12:50:36 PM

Keep it up!

Watching Hotrod get desperate and post something completely nuts is so much fun.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 12:42:25 PM

"#hyperbole #strawman #deflection"

Schoolchildren being shot to death at school (in so-called gun free zones) is not hyperbole, it has actually happened.

As far as it being a strawman, didn't you say "You are more likely to be caught in a fire than a public shooting - so I guess you better carry a fire extinguisher instead of a hand gun". It would only be a strawman if you weren't arguing the opposite position - that gun free zones are fine and don't make schools more dangerous.

A deflection? As I said before, safety is one of the reasons we homeschool, and we aren't the only ones. I understand your desire to ignore this now that you're losing the argument because the evidence doesn't support your position. Just concede the point and we can move on.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 11:16:46 AM

Looks like this still applies;

Watching Hotrod get desperate and post something completely nuts is so much fun.

"I still don't find the murder of schoolchildren to be amusing. It would be one thing if it was all theoretical, but since a number of children have been killed in their schools in recent years, I take the subject very seriously. Granted, it's a small number, but still...how many does it take before you take it seriously?"

#hyperbole #strawman #deflection

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 1/20/2015 11:17:06 AM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 10:20:12 AM

"Looks like this still applies;"

If you say so. I still don't find the murder of schoolchildren to be amusing. It would be one thing if it was all theoretical, but since a number of children have been killed in their schools in recent years, I take the subject very seriously. Granted, it's a small number, but still...how many does it take before you take it seriously?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 9:40:03 AM

Looks like this still applies;

"Watching Hotrod get desperate and post something completely nuts is so much fun."
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 7:31:00 PM

Interesting you find putting the lives of children in danger to be so amusing, Weaslespit.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 11:29:55 AM

Watching Hotrod get desperate and post something completely nuts is so much fun.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 10:50:53 AM

"Gotta love people who think hyperbole is a rational form of debate..."

I figured someone who would advocate more regulation that decreases public safety might be just backwards enough to go along with cars without brakes. After all, you were the one that called being prepared "absurdity". Being prepared to protect oneself seems perfectly logical to me. OTOH, making laws that restrict law-abiding citizens from being able to protect themselves seems to be the absurd position to take.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 8:45:02 AM

"Well, if we're going to take that approach, cars don't need brakes either. Car crashes are going to happen, after all. Why bother trying to prevent them?"

Gotta love people who think hyperbole is a rational form of debate...
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 5:08:55 PM

"Now you are finally getting to the crux of the true absurdity in trying to 'prepare' for the myriad of possible tragedies that can occur throughout ones life..."

Well, if we're going to take that approach, cars don't need brakes either. Car crashes are going to happen, after all. Why bother trying to prevent them?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 11:13:20 AM

"That's still not a valid or relevant comparison."

Of course not, it doesn't fit your narrative... Pfft.

"Also, you are far more likely to die in a car crash than either one, so maybe you should stop driving..."

Now you are finally getting to the crux of the true absurdity in trying to 'prepare' for the myriad of possible tragedies that can occur throughout ones life...

Thanks for making my point ;)
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 10:31:59 AM

"And how many are killed on private property where guns are allowed, in comparison?"

That's still not a valid or relevant comparison. You can't the compare public and private arenas unless you adjust for the number of people and time spent in those arenas. Again, the only comparison of that type that has any validity is the comparison of cities with strict gun-control and those without. That comparison doesn't look good for the gun-control advocates either. The only real valid comparison is the one the author made - mass public shootings in gun-free zones versus public places without those restrictions.

Although, if you can find the stats on mass killings in homes where the homeowners had guns versus where the homeowners were unarmed, I suspect the numbers there would also lean in favor of the armed homeowners.

"You are more likely to be caught in a fire than a public shooting - so I guess you better carry a fire extinguisher instead of a hand gun... ;)"

Public building already allow, actually require, fire extinguishers to be readily available. Also, you are far more likely to die in a car crash than either one, so maybe you should stop driving. If that's your philosophy, you should probably avoid hospitals as well - more people die there than anywhere else. Perhaps you should just quit being absurd and deal with the issue, which is that mass public shootings are mostly preventable simply by eliminating unarmed victim zones, AKA gun-free zones.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 5:47:16 PM

"...the fantasy of disarming the law abiding population will in some way stop crime is not childlike, its pure lunacy."

Which nobody is trying to do, so... definitely a fantasy!

“With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

And how many are killed on private property where guns are allowed, in comparison?

You are more likely to be caught in a fire than a public shooting - so I guess you better carry a fire extinguisher instead of a hand gun... ;)
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 2:26:27 PM

"Not that guns have anything to do with education,"

Not directly related to education, but definitely a pertinent issue for those with children in a public or private school. Among the many reasons that we homeschool our children is the lack of security imposed by "gun free school zones" that leave everyone in the public schools in the position of being unable to defend themselves or anyone else. As the saying goes, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Consider this little tidbit from National Review: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 2:02:10 PM

Obama's snub to France is a minor issue. He and his sycophants had to lie to get Obamacare passed. A program that is and will continue to be unaffordable. The nation and states cant afford free college but he is pushing it. We have second amendment but Obama has constantly pushed to restrict it. Obama wants what comes to an open boarder. Our laws kind of go against that. While some of these things my be desirable they are not feasible.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 1:50:43 PM

>>"If all of us good guys were packing heat, it would be a much safer world."

Seems like a child-like view of reality...<<

Not that guns have anything to do with education, the fantasy of disarming the law abiding population will in some way stop crime is not childlike, its pure lunacy.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 1:42:41 PM

"Not that my caring a gun has anything to do with my education and success in life, or how I achieved it. Why did you even bring that up?"

For some reason you went on bit of a rant against those who are college educated as if you have a chip on you shoulder for some reason. I am simply pointing out that your own story is not all roses either as you might have just painted it. Simply some perspective.

I am happy you experienced so much of the world, that is a very limited opportunity, regardless of ones education. I take it every chance I get as well.

"We just don't want the progressives destroying it."

Like the right's outrage over not sending a higher-level delegate to France? That kind of stuff where Obama is 'destroying America'?

Nay, that is being done from within by the refusal of our politicians to actually govern and compromise to reach a solution that is acceptable for all parties. Instead, it is a constant war - one side trying to dominate the other and when the balance of power shifts, they party in power spends their energy simply undoing what was done previously.

WE are the ones destroying America, by voting in so many extremists into office.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 1:34:30 PM

"If all of us good guys were packing heat, it would be a much safer world."

Seems like a child-like view of reality...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 1:31:57 PM

>>Yet you work in constant peril, so much so that you feel the need to carry to protect yourself...<<

I work near the Edward Jones main office, an arena and other major attractions. Unfortunately this is also the edge of were that crime is concentrated. I live in a fairly safe part of town. The infamous sandwich shooter was killed less than a mile from my office. St. Louis is strange, you will have half million dollar houses two blocks from an area that needs a bulldozer. We had six murders in the city last night alone. Not that my caring a gun has anything to do with my education and success in life, or how I achieved it. Why did you even bring that up?

>>Agreed - despite what so many on the far right might say these days...<<
Just about everyone on the right seem to think America is great. We just don't want the progressives destroying it.

[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 1/15/2015 1:32:20 PM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 11:26:53 AM

"Yet you work in constant peril, so much so that you feel the need to carry to protect yourself..."

We live in a dangerous world, made worse by disarming law-abiding citizens. If all of us good guys were packing heat, it would be a much safer world.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 11:14:34 AM

"Wow. Just, wow."

'Cause you read an opinion piece on the internet... LOL!

"Bonjour"!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2015 11:12:23 AM

"The real neat part is that on top of all of this I also make more than they do and have good job security."

Yet you work in constant peril, so much so that you feel the need to carry to protect yourself...

"No school can teach these things."

Certainly. And that is not what is expected - at least by myself.

"Most of all I learned just how great America really is."

Agreed - despite what so many on the far right might say these days...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 11:43:34 PM

Many of the people I graduated high school with now have four year or more college degrees. I have 8 years in the army as an aircraft mechanic and one year in a trade school. Some of my friends want to talk to me about Europe like they know all about it, but have never been there. All they know is what they were taught in school and have heard second hand. They don't know what a steak dinner in Italy is really like or what you will pay for one. I went to the commissary and bought stakes, potatoes and corn on the cob for my girlfriend, her mom and grandma. I brought my Webber Grill over and set it up in the back yard. As I started to season the stakes mom wanted to know how many people were coming over. Just one of the stakes I had was what they would use to feed a family. When you order a stake in a good restaurant you get one that is about 1/4 inch thick. You pay what we would pay for a one inch think on here. In my girlfriend house about 30% of their income went to pay for energy. They are paying about $8 a gallon for gas. They dont understand that in Italy a family member ending up in a nursing home is a family disgrace. I brought that home with me. They want to talk to me about the Middle East. I have been there too. Again all they know is what they have heard second hand. I was there in the early 1990s.

I leaned to snow sky in the Alps. I leaned to scuba dive from a Navy Seal. I rode my motor cycle all over northern Italy. I have been to Venice, Pisa, and the Island of Murano. The glass blower there are incredible. Art doesn't even start to cover it. It's like watching magic unfold before your eyes. I have been shopping in Dea Baker and Incirlik Turkey. Closer to home I have been to Cancun Mexico many times. Before the drug wars I used to leave the tourist area and go shoping in the real Mexico part of Cancun.

Most of these are life experiences that none of my college educated friends have. The real neat part is that on top of all of this I also make more than they do and have good job security. I also have leaned to what is important in life and what is not. Most of all I learned just how great America really is.


No school can teach these things. In quite a few when they do they teach a politically correct version of things that isn't quite accurate.



[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 1/14/2015 11:51:00 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 10:45:35 PM

K-12 Education settles for Empty Curriculum

Wow. Just, wow.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 2:33:23 PM

"The Constitution does NOT give you a free pass on discrimination,"

By a strict reading of what it actually says, discrimination is not forbidden by the Constitution.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 2:27:11 PM

"discriminating based on his misunderstanding of his religion."

Now you're the arbiter of the tenets of the Christian faith, too. The extent of your arrogance continues to astound.

"He has the freedom to choose whatever livelihood he wishes, after all."

...so long as it doesn't involve providing products or services to the public. That shouldn't limit his choices much. <<sarc>>

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 1/14/2015 2:30:24 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 1:43:12 PM

"I thought we live in the United States, where the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion."

You have the freedom to practice your religion as long as it doesn't infringe on the freedom of others. The Constitution does NOT give you a free pass on discrimination, unfortunately for the baker and those who think similarly...

"...he didn't know he wasn't free to conduct his business according to his faith."

Some people need to learn things the hard way I guess.

"Darn inconvenient to live by what one believes."

Then perhaps he should look into a different livelihood if he can't reconcile being an entrepreneur and not discriminating based on his misunderstanding of his religion. This is America - he has the freedom to choose whatever livelihood he wishes, after all.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 1:37:40 PM

"They sued to advance their gay agenda and for NO other reason."

If by 'gay agenda' you mean equal rights, then you are 100% correct. They were illegally discriminated against and won their case. Bottom-line.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 1:10:57 PM

They sued to advance their gay agenda and for NO other reason.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 1:04:09 PM

"Or the baker could have just obeyed the law and not discriminated based on his 'convictions'."

So people should lay aside their religious beliefs because they have now been deemed to violate the law? I thought we live in the United States, where the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. Apparently not anymore.

Btw, he didn't believe he violated the law at the time. It was not until a judge ruled that his shop is considered a "public accommodation" that what he did became illegal. Although, based on his comments it's clear he would have responded the same way. The other option would have been to quit making wedding cakes altogether, before the incident, but again, he didn't know he wasn't free to conduct his business according to his faith.

"Cutting off his nose to spite his face. HIS choice..."

Darn inconvenient to live by what one believes. If he was only like all those people out there with no morals, or at least not any he's willing to live by, life would be so much easier for him.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 1/14/2015 1:09:35 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 11:32:17 AM

"...and he has ceased making wedding cakes completely."

Cutting off his nose to spite his face. HIS choice...

"He has stated repeatedly that he would close his shop rather than violate his convictions."

See above.

"Oh, so they were trying to help him"

They wanted t make a purchase as is done millions of times a day with no issues; nothing more, nothing less.

"...they could have respected his convictions and just gone to someone who wanted their business, instead of dragging him into court, getting him slapped with fines, threatened with jail time, costing him countless hours and thousands of dollars to defend himself."

Or the baker could have just obeyed the law and not discriminated based on his 'convictions'.

"It's not like his Christian beliefs were a secret; it is the "Masterpiece Cakeshop", after all."

I hope you are not trying to imply that there is something inherently religious about the name of his bakery...
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 10:41:42 AM

Principal: Let Children Protect Themselves With Cans

"According to the Associated Press, an Alabama middle school principal has come up with the brilliant plan of letting children throw canned goods in the event of a violent intruder as a means of self-defense."

"The whole canned weaponry concept raises a number of questions...For instance, school officials say the cans will be stored in a classroom. But will they be in a locked can safe? Will the cans include some sort of locking lid guard safety device?

If our goal is to empower students, shouldn’t they be allowed to open carry a can of peaches? Or will there be a permit requiring some sort of background check? Will some areas of the school still be “can-free zones,” such as for example the bathrooms (primarily because taking food into a public restroom is just gross)?

What about reasonable restrictions on certain types of cans? It’s only common-sense to restrict the length of cans, as well as the diameter of a can’s “barrel.” Obviously, there should also be restrictions on capacity. Nobody needs two dozen peaches to take down an armed shooter. Six should be enough to get the job done."
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2015 10:06:29 AM

"The reality is that they tried to give him business, until he discriminated against them."

Oh, so they were trying to help him? If that was the intent, they could have respected his convictions and just gone to someone who wanted their business, instead of dragging him into court, getting him slapped with fines, threatened with jail time, costing him countless hours and thousands of dollars to defend himself. I doubt very much this couple had any intent to buy a cake from the shop. It's not like his Christian beliefs were a secret; it is the "Masterpiece Cakeshop", after all.

"Um, he is still very much in business."

For now. There is still a court ruling hanging over his head and he has ceased making wedding cakes completely. He has stated repeatedly that he would close his shop rather than violate his convictions.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 8:20:43 PM

"I used the term because it's accurate."

And not at all demeaning. Pfftttt!

"How else would you describe those who would go to court to try and force someone to bake them a cake"

Civil rights leaders.

"Homosexuals who go out of their way to put someone out of business for having a religious objection to their lifestyle, are militant."

The reality is that they tried to give him business, until he discriminated against them.

"I think they are being spiteful, and I dislike their actions, but I don't dislike them as people. I'm sure they have their reasons for being intolerant of other people's views and religious convictions, but it doesn't change the what they've done."

More projecting...

"I hope those who have destroyed the livelihood of the baker in CO because of his faith will understand how hurtful their actions were."

Um, he is still very much in business.

"As I said before, discrimination based on behavior is not only legal, it is foundational to the law. "

Except the law explicitly indicates sexuality cannot be used to discriminate.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 4:29:32 PM

"Someday I hope you will also understand the difference between disagreeing with somebody (as is your right) and discriminating against somebody because you disagree with them."

As I said before, discrimination based on behavior is not only legal, it is foundational to the law. However, I have not personally, nor espoused, discrimination against homosexuals. I only espoused freedom of association and the freedom for an individual to conduct their business as they see fit. All people should be held as equal under the law, but the law should not extend to dictating who someone must do business with.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 4:07:08 PM

"You don't accuse somebody of being 'militant' if you like them."

I used the term because it's accurate. How else would you describe those who would go to court to try and force someone to bake them a cake, when they could have very easily found someone else who would have been happy to do it for them? Homosexuals who go out of their way to put someone out of business for having a religious objection to their lifestyle, are militant. I think they are being spiteful, and I dislike their actions, but I don't dislike them as people. I'm sure they have their reasons for being intolerant of other people's views and religious convictions, but it doesn't change the what they've done.

"Hopefully someday you will understand how your words are truly hurtful."

Why should anyone be hurt by me expressing what I believe, unless they know it to be true and don't want to hear it?

I hope those who have destroyed the livelihood of the baker in CO because of his faith will understand how hurtful their actions were. There's a saying that used to be very popular involving branches and rocks...

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 2:40:09 PM

"Matters of faith, morality and conscience can never be proven; they are matters of personal conviction. An individual's personal convictions and religious beliefs used to be respected in this country, without having to justify them."

Huh, yet when it comes to sexuality, something that can't (or has yet) to be proven with regards to it being innate, doesn't have to be respected and must be constantly justified.

How incredibly hypocritical.. Thanks for that.

"Someday I hope you will understand the difference between disagreeing and disliking."

You don't accuse somebody of being 'militant' if you like them. Hopefully someday you will understand how your words are truly hurtful.

"So anyone who doesn't agree with your views lack a conscience?"

Someday I hope you will also understand the difference between disagreeing with somebody (as is your right) and discriminating against somebody because you disagree with them.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 2:26:54 PM

"And it has yet to be proven how selling a cake for a party in any way legitimizes same sex marriage on the part of the baker."

Matters of faith, morality and conscience can never be proven; they are matters of personal conviction. An individual's personal convictions and religious beliefs used to be respected in this country, without having to justify them. Now people have to "prove" that their beliefs are legitimate before they are allowed to live by them.

"Yet then you want us to believe this;"

Someday I hope you will understand the difference between disagreeing and disliking. The distinction between stating a viewpoint and demeaning someone also appears to have escaped your grasp.

"Too bad those who do discriminate don't actually have a conscience..."

Interesting viewpoint. So anyone who doesn't agree with your views lack a conscience? How big of a truck do you need to carry around that ego, Weaslespit?

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 1/12/2015 2:31:03 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 1:57:34 PM

"When this person went into business, he was free to refuse business he did not want to take."

As long as it wasn't based on discrimination, which clearly this one was.

You say this;

"...militant homosexuals are using the law to force people to violate their conscience..."

Yet then you want us to believe this;

"I don't dislike homosexuals and I haven't demeaned anyone."

Um, OK....

"For someone who believes something is sinful, legitimizing it violates their conscience."

And it has yet to be proven how selling a cake for a party in any way legitimizes same sex marriage on the part of the baker. Ridiculous excuse to legitimize discrimination. Too bad those who do discriminate don't actually have a conscience...
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 1:16:23 PM

"Moving the goalposts now from 'legitimizing sin' to just affecting somebody's conscience?"

For someone who believes something is sinful, legitimizing it violates their conscience.
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 1:11:30 PM

"Discrimination is discrimination..."

... and sin is sin. Again, it comes back to whether homosexuality is an innate characteristic or not. You say it is, and therefore discrimination against homosexuals is wrong; I say it isn't and they therefore do not deserve special privileges because of their chosen lifestyle. Because of this fundamental difference in views, I don't see us ever agreeing on subjects like this.

"If your conscience is threatened, you might want to rethink the industry you are in altogether."

Until recently, people had the right to decide who they contracted to do work for, and homosexuality wasn't considered the same as race. Only in the last couple years have sexual orientation and gender identity been added to the protected groups. The ruling in the case of the baker in CO is the first time I know of where that type of business was considered a "public accommodation". There's your moving goalposts. When this person went into business, he was free to refuse business he did not want to take. I suspect in the future we'll see businesses use other excuses for rejecting the business that they object to on moral grounds, so militant homosexuals are using the law to force people to violate their conscience, lie, or go out of business. To quote you, Weaslespit, "What a shame."
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 11:40:05 AM

"It depends on the person's views and religious convictions."

Actually, it doesn't. Discrimination is discrimination...

"Who made you the arbiter of what violates someone else's conscience?"

Moving the goalposts now from 'legitimizing sin' to just affecting somebody's conscience?

If your conscience is threatened, you might want to rethink the industry you are in altogether.
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 11:36:25 AM

"What a shame."

Well, some of us have standards of what is right and wrong, apparently you don't. That's what I consider a shame.

"Baking a cake for a party is hardly participating in a ceremony legitimizing sin."

It depends on the person's views and religious convictions. Who made you the arbiter of what violates someone else's conscience?

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 1/12/2015 11:40:26 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 10:35:24 AM

"I would try my best to convince them of the truth..."

I figured as much. What a shame.

"I would not participate in the ceremony legitimizing sin."

Baking a cake for a party is hardly participating in a ceremony legitimizing sin.

Wow, just wow...
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2015 8:59:53 PM

"6th grade was detailed sex-ed in my school district decades ago. 5th grade was general knowledge and awareness."

General knowledge of anatomy and biology is all that ever needs to be taught in school. The "when" should be discussed at home, and the "how" doesn't need to be taught; it is best discovered on the honeymoon, although almost everyone nowadays is well aware of how it's done well before that. Be that as it may, there's still no reason to take time away from reading, writing, and math. If something beyond the basics is going to be taught, there are many more useful subjects, like critical thinking and economics that should fill that valuable time.
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2015 8:44:47 PM

" It usually takes a life-changing event to move a person to re-evaluate their core beliefs. Like one of your own children coming out of the closet, for example..."

That might change some people's beliefs, but it would not change mine. I love my children regardless of what they do, even if it is outside of God's plan for them. I have followed a sinful path many times myself, and reaped the consequences. If one of my children "came out", I would try my best to convince them of the truth, but they are free to make their own choices and their own mistakes. When we realize our errors and turn away from our disobedience, God forgives and restores, and as He is my example, I would endeavor to do the same.

"And I don't recall the 10 Commandments indicating anything about homosexuality."

The whole of God's will is not detailed in the 10 Commandments. The Bible as a whole is very clear on the issue.

"I would make a wager that those whom you are in fact belittling wouldn't agree with your opinion..."

I cannot be responsible for how someone else reacts to what I say. I merely pointed out that those who engage in homosexual behavior are disobedient to God. Those don't believe that or don't care that they are sinning, will be able to simply ignore it. Only those who know that it's the truth would be hurt hearing it. No one likes to be reminded that they are doing wrong, but unless we face our sin, we can never be free of it.

"But if you were a Baker you wouldn't serve them."

I must live according to what I believe, or I would be a hypocrite. I would not participate in the ceremony legitimizing sin. It has nothing to do with what I feel about the people involved. I try to follow God's example and "speak the truth in love". People need to know that God has a better way, I will do my best to convince them of that. If some are offended, that is their choice, but I will not let it stop me from speaking the truth.

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