Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    3:39 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: US politics > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Zero Tolerance = Zero common sense - It's time to homeschool Back to Topics
HotRod10

Champion Author
Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Apr 8, 2014 10:36:19 AM

The government schools have gone crazy. If it's not a kid getting strip-searched and "evaluated" for 5 hours for twirling a pencil, it's 2nd grade math problems an engineer can't figure out.

At least once a week, I see something that makes me say "Thank God my kids are homeschooled".

Have you considered homeschooling? If so, why haven't done it?

Won't even consider it? Why not?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:4,228
Points:53,665
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Sep 16, 2014 3:18:24 PM

.
. 75% of American adults are totally unqualified to be teachers... but that won't stop them... remember when Jay Leno used to interview them in the streets?
.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 16, 2014 2:40:24 PM

"I would say my wife and I know our kids better than anyone else....Only someone incredibly arrogant would think otherwise."

One with experience educating hundreds of kids could call that thinking 'naïve' if you attempt to apply that to every parent. Most kids at the Elementary level indeed are good, well-behaved and try their best. Few either have physical/mental disabilities that are discovered and treated through various forms (therapy, medication, special instruction etc) or have home issues that causes them to act - their parents see one kid who can 'do no wrong and is a perfect angel', the school sees the real behavior of the child....

In many cases you are correct - in some the parents can't see the forest for the trees. Yours is a special case in that your arrogance makes you think any adult is as equipped to teach their child as somebody who spends 6 years studying to become a professional. Simply amazing, but then again there is a lot of distrust of the government out in those sparsely populated Western states which clouds the judgment. People are fiercely independent (to a fault) and don't like to be told what is good for them - even if the person who is doing the telling is right.

"I'm sure the Danes have taught their children well how to be good little subjects..."

What is it exactly that you think you know suddenly about Denmark that would make you post such an inane comment as that? Let me guess - shooting form the hip again? What a shame, you probably didn't even bother to read the link.

"Deride me if you will, but the one speaking out of ignorance is you."

Coming from a conspiracy theorist, I'll take that as a compliment. ;)
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 16, 2014 10:56:04 AM

"Please. You are speaking with your tin foil hat on now... I know the courses that were taken and they do not teach 'indoctrination'. "

I suppose it's all a matter of perspective. Since your viewpoint obviously aligns with what's being taught, you don't see a problem with it. Some of us are not so blind to the truth. Some of us have read and understood the history of other societies who went down this path, saw how it turned out for them, and don't want that to happen here. Deride me if you will, but the one speaking out of ignorance is you.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 16, 2014 10:46:44 AM

"As long as people think teachers are no-better equipped to teach kids than their parents, things won't get better."

If children under the influence and control of the state is "better", I hope it it gets worse. Ultimately, the responsibility for a child's education should rest with the parents. Thankfully, there are still a few states like mine where (at least currently) it is written into the state constitution that parents have the ultimate authority over their child's education.

"Kids are 'very' adept at snow-balling their parents. You seem to underestimate their abilities."

They're at least as good at snow-balling their teachers. I would say my wife and I know our kids better than anyone else. Even if they went to school somewhere and spent a couple hours with each of 4 teachers in a class with twenty-some other students, I believe I would still know them better by far than any of those teachers. Only someone incredibly arrogant would think otherwise.

"It doesn't have to be that way. Denmark has proven it..."

I'm sure the Danes have taught their children well how to be good little subjects...
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 16, 2014 9:20:25 AM

"I don't claim to know it all but I know Islam is not a country. My kid came home from school with an assignment to do a report of the country of Islam."

Correct - Islam is a religion. The Islamic State (ISIS) thinks that they are a country...

As MM said, I would get clarification from the teacher.
Profile Pic
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

Posts:21,540
Points:318,355
Joined:Jul 2008
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 8:02:30 PM

"My kid came home from school with an assignment to do a report of the country of Islam."

Did you contact the teacher to inquire about it?

Profile Pic
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:8,059
Points:1,181,215
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 6:06:30 PM

I don't claim to know it all but I know Islam is not a country. My kid came home from school with an assignment to do a report of the country of Islam.
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:4,228
Points:53,665
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 5:12:01 PM

.
< "liberal idealogy" >

. That's code for telling the truth... instead of psychotic religious lies...
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 5:07:08 PM

"Correct. Every child is an individual, and no one knows them better than the parents who raise them."

SMH - like I said;

'You are a 'perfect' example of parents who come in with that 'know-it-all' attitude. Thanks for that.'

Kids are 'very' adept at snow-balling their parents. You seem to underestimate their abilities.

"Btw, I've seen the curriculum for undergrad degree in education (which is more than most teachers have); it's not very impressive, and generally so engulfed in liberal ideology, it mostly indoctrinates teachers in how to indoctrinate kids into being good subjects for an all-powerful government."

Please. You are speaking with your tin foil hat on now... I know the courses that were taken and they do not teach 'indoctrination'. You are not only showing your naivety but your ignorance as well as your bias. You exemplify 'exactly' what is wrong in this country with regards to the attitude towards public education.

"Those who hold the purse-strings will dictate the course. It's always been that way, and it always will be."

It doesn't have to be that way. Denmark has proven it... See the link provided. As long as people think teachers are no-better equipped to teach kids than their parents, things won't get better.

Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:31:30 PM

"It means letting the professionals dictate the course of education, not politicians"

It will never work that way. Those who hold the purse-strings will dictate the course. It's always been that way, and it always will be. Homeschool and private school parents recognize the only way to have control over their children's education is to pay for it themselves. If you're happy just "going with the flow" and letting "professionals" and politicians dictate your child's future, go right ahead. I'm not that naive.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 1:22:33 PM

"So lesse - spending 4 years (Undergrad), plus an additional 2 (Master's)learning 'how' to teach doesn't make teachers more capable of educating children?"

Correct. Every child is an individual, and no one knows them better than the parents who raise them. There's nobody kids want to please more than their parents, and nobody more concerned about children's success than their parents. The results speak for themselves; homeschooled kids get a better education than public school kids.

Btw, I've seen the curriculum for undergrad degree in education (which is more than most teachers have); it's not very impressive, and generally so engulfed in liberal ideology, it mostly indoctrinates teachers in how to indoctrinate kids into being good subjects for an all-powerful government.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:27:38 AM

"I can't let your absurd assumption that parents are not at least as capable of educating their children as a "professional" pass."

So lesse - spending 4 years (Undergrad), plus an additional 2 (Master's)learning 'how' to teach doesn't make teachers more capable of educating children? Wow. Just wow.... You are a 'perfect' example of parents who come in with that 'know-it-all' attitude. Thanks for that.

"By continuing to advocate for CC..."

I think it needs refined, not dumped. Unfortunately, this aspect of education is the least of our systemic worries. NCLB, for one, needs to be repealed immediately.

The solution to our education system's woes lie in the example provided in my previous link. It means letting the professionals dictate the course of education, not politicians (or even 'know-it-all parents'). This is a 30-year solution.

"I wasn't talking about teachers. The teachers are the pawns in this power game."

At least we agree there. Unfortunately for you, many teachers echo what I have been trying to get through to you...

"I understood you are or were involved in the public school system. In what capacity then?"

In no capacity. I do have several family members and friends who are teachers, however.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 15, 2014 10:16:52 AM

Agenda 21 Simplified – The Standardization of Common Core

"The UN believes it essential that education be standardized across the world in order to get everyone on board with Agenda 21 (sustainable development). Truthfully, they won't have to convince anyone since the social sciences have mastered the arts of manipulating human behavior and made tremendous progress in learning how to indoctrinate people into a certain worldview."

"This is where the document UN Conventions on the Rights of the Child comes into play. Liberals love this because they believe that it guarantees the rights of everyone to have a good education; however, it does way more than that. It puts all of the rights concerning education into the hands of the child and the government, parents no longer have a say. A free, state provided education is now a fundamental human right for young children and parents can be held criminally liable for failing to provide it in some parts of the world.This is significant when you consider the next part of the Dakar Framework:

'We hereby collectively commit ourselves to the attainment
of the following goals:
(i) expanding and improving comprehensive early childhood
care and education, especially for the most vulnerable
and disadvantaged children;
(ii) ensuring that by 2015 all children, particularly girls,
children in difficult circumstances and those belonging
to ethnic minorities, have access to and complete, free
and compulsory primary education of good quality;'"

At the bottom there are links to Parts 1 and 2 of the series, showing how eradication of private property rights and gun control, respectively, are also constituent parts of the UN Agenda 21.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 12, 2014 12:49:47 PM

"Obama's Race to the Top is the next failed initiative to follow NCLB."

Race to the Top (or Bottom, to be accurate), was the bribe by which Common Core got into the schools, nothing more.

"Who let the government get in the way? Us - the voting public."

Correct. By continuing to advocate for CC, you are perpetuating the problem and helping to make it worse. Can you not see the end result of CC is the government in complete control of the educational system?

"I can't be politically correct around parents who think they know better than a trained professional."

I can't let your absurd assumption that parents are not at least as capable of educating their children as a "professional" pass. Especially when all the evidence points to homeschooled children getting a substantially better education than what they receive in the public schools, whether or not their parents are "professionals". If you can provide evidence that "trained professionals" do a better job than parents, then let's see it. Until then, your statement is an assumption shown to be false by the evidence.

"Count yourself as part of the group above that don't know what they are talking about. Teachers aren't in their jobs for power."

I wasn't talking about teachers. The teachers are the pawns in this power game.

"I am not a teacher"

I understood you are or were involved in the public school system. In what capacity then?

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 9/12/2014 12:50:55 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 12, 2014 10:12:02 AM

"I'm talking about the public school system in the U.S., which used to be the envy of the world until the government got substantially involved."

Who let the government get in the way? Us - the voting public. Too many people think that teachers aren't worth what they are paid and have no real understanding of what makes a successful school system... Obama's Race to the Top is the next failed initiative to follow NCLB.

This is who we should be modeling our schoold system after.

"As someone who is part of the system, I can see why you like that; it gives you more power."

Count yourself as part of the group above that don't know what they are talking about. Teachers aren't in their jobs for power. Out of all of the things you have posted, that might be one of the most inane.

And no, I am not a teacher - I can't be politically correct around parents who think they know better than a trained professional.

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 9/12/2014 10:14:30 AM EST]
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 12, 2014 1:16:39 AM

Me: "We will complete the transformation begun decades ago of turning our public schools into government indoctrination centers."

Weaslespit: "Decades ago? Centuries ago, if not millennia... It is human nature to write history from the POV of the victors. What does that have to do with math?"

I'm talking about the public school system in the U.S., which used to be the envy of the world until the government got substantially involved.

All areas of education have suffered due to either incompetence or a purposeful dumbing-down of our children.

Now we have American history that leaves out key information and the motivations of the founding fathers because it doesn't fit the anti-Christian world view and political narrative of the socialists writing the curriculum.

Math education under Common Core is designed to confuse kids and convince them that math is too hard to do on their own. It is set up so that most parents will be unable to help their children and the kids will have to rely completely on their teachers and be dependent on the system.

As someone who is part of the system, I can see why you like that; it gives you more power. The rest of us prefer to raise our own children rather than surrendering them to the tutelage and control of the state.

Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 1:16:07 PM

"The "new" methods of learning math are not "unknown" to me. I know them, understand them, have even employed some of them, but they are shortcuts and simplifications I don't believe should be taught to students who have not mastered basic mathematics."

Since when is 'carrying a one' mastering the basics of mathematics? Your opinion only...
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 1:14:12 PM

"But you don't think CC by it's very nature is a government intrusion..."

Outside of the mandated testing, I think it is one of the few things they may have gotten right...

"If you believe that, you have fallen for a lie."

I can only speak for the elementary aspects of CC, and can tell you that you are the one who has fallen for the political BS if you disagree with anything in CC at that level.

I don't know enough about CC at higher grade levels to fully attest to it without relying on second hand information as you have.

"We will complete the transformation begun decades ago of turning our public schools into government indoctrination centers."

Decades ago? Centuries ago, if not millennia... It is human nature to write history from the POV of the victors. What does that have to do with math?
Profile Pic
teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:18,907
Points:817,405
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 12:05:51 PM

Certainly the ZERO common sense part:
DC teacher has sixth-graders compare George Bush to Adolf Hitler

Just a guess here, but I'd bet money the teacher is a raving liberal.

[Edited by: teacher_tim at 9/11/2014 12:06:35 PM EST]
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 11:47:51 AM

"That is just fear of the unknown speaking..."

The "new" methods of learning math are not "unknown" to me. I know them, understand them, have even employed some of them, but they are shortcuts and simplifications I don't believe should be taught to students who have not mastered basic mathematics.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 11:41:13 AM

"so I do agree that the government can and has been too intrusive overall with regards to education."

But you don't think CC by it's very nature is a government intrusion? If you believe that, you have fallen for a lie. I know, the proponents say "It's just standards, having high standards is a good thing.", but it's not just standards. In order to meet the standards (and get the funding), the curriculum and the content have to "align" with the standards. When the standards are national in scope, they are by necessity dictated by the "federal" government. Common Core, when fully implemented, will put the "federal" government in control of what children learn in "public" school. We will complete the transformation begun decades ago of turning our public schools into government indoctrination centers. Call it paranoia if you want, but it's the logical and inevitable outcome.

Btw, I put federal in quotes because the U.S. has not been governed by real Federalism for several decades. Our government schools have done their job so well, most people don't even realize that.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 11:02:56 AM

"Yeah, I'm really struggling...I guess I'll just have to muddle through with my rudimentary math skills and my poor understanding of the the "concepts of math"."

The point you are missing is that you are using a method which works for you - good. Your criticism of another method, however, are based on misunderstanding and fed by mistrust of the government (the second part is very understandable).

"I've seen many of those "other" methods, and I understand them perfectly. As someone who does math in my head regularly, I find them to be either a waste of time or completely obvious once the fundamentals are mastered. Why would I want to teach them or have them taught to my children?"

Again - all math does at that age is help to develop critical thinking. If later in life as they progress deeper into high levels of math they might find different methods to solve problems. You are not seeing the forest for the trees - we are not going to have a population of people who have to get out a piece of paper and complete problems as was demonstrated by the teacher whom you think took an exorbitant amount of time to solve a simple problem. That is just fear of the unknown speaking...

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 9/11/2014 11:06:14 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 11:01:23 AM

"I'll agree with you there. If NCLB was such an utter failure, why would you embrace something that is the same concept taken to the next level?"

Because unlike NCLB, CC has its merits - but as I pointed out, it is not without valid criticism from those in the education sector - there is far too much standardized testing so that the government can 'grade' teachers. That is not their job, so I do agree that the government can and has been too intrusive overall with regards to education.

This testing causes teachers to have to teach to the tests, rather than educate, which is a disservice.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:52:16 AM

"your indoctrination in one method hampers your ability to see any others"

I've seen many of those "other" methods, and I understand them perfectly. As someone who does math in my head regularly, I find them to be either a waste of time or completely obvious once the fundamentals are mastered. Why would I want to teach them or have them taught to my children?



[Edited by: HotRod10 at 9/11/2014 10:52:50 AM EST]
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:44:21 AM

"Hence your struggles with other concepts of math"

Yeah, I'm really struggling...I guess I'll just have to muddle through with my rudimentary math skills and my poor understanding of the the "concepts of math". How will I ever survive? How will I ever get a job that requires math? I guess I'll just have to stick with engineering. Good thing becoming a Professional Engineer didn't require any understanding of math.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:36:21 AM

"National standards = national curriculum = national indoctrination = national enslavement."

"= paranoia."

Yeah, it would be absolutely crazy to think that what has happened multiple times in history would happen again.

"I haven't seen much favorable come out of the No Child Left Behind Act... That has been an utter disaster."

I'll agree with you there. If NCLB was such an utter failure, why would you embrace something that is the same concept taken to the next level?
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:32:50 AM

"One way or another, if you're adding numbers where the sum is more than 10, you have to "carry". There's no getting around it."

Hence your struggles with other concepts of math - your indoctrination in one method hampers your ability to see any others ;)
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:31:51 AM

"Baker and his wife arrived at Rochester during normal school hours to settle a dispute in regards to their daughter's class schedule. Rochester superintendent Robert Shaner, himself a U.S. Marine Corps veteran, has since issued an apology to Baker and his family.

Shaner said that there is no district policy banning those in uniform, and believes the incident occurred because of staff's misunderstanding of current policy."

Interesting - I know this school very well. In my time in the District, there was no policy restricting uniforms as was indicated at the end of the article.

I dunno if that warrants termination, johnny, but certainly an apology to the family and immediate clarification for all staffers in RHS.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:30:54 AM

"Nobody who wants to be able to do math in their head (outside of memorizing the most basic of arithmetic) 'carries the one'. Sorry."

One way or another, if you're adding numbers where the sum is more than 10, you have to "carry". There's no getting around it. You can break it up, put the components in boxes, expand the problem to the point of absurdity, but eventually you still have to get the numbers in the correct value "place".

Btw, I do complex math in my head all the time, and it frequently involves "carrying" values.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:27:50 AM

"Probably none of it would even make an impact on you Weaslespit, considering your favorable view of the government as a benevolent master"

I haven't seen much favorable come out of the No Child Left Behind Act... That has been an utter disaster.

"National standards = national curriculum = national indoctrination = national enslavement."

= paranoia.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 11, 2014 10:13:23 AM

"The 'only' problem with Common Core is the amount of standardized testing that is associated with it. Other than that, it simply tightens learning standards for all subjects - which is a good thing."

Oh, where to begin...the absolutely horrific results always associated with nationalizing "education"; the massive amount of personal information being collected on the children and their families; or the the dismal failure the "public" school system has become as government involvement has increased and "education" has become more centralized?

Probably none of it would even make an impact on you Weaslespit, considering your favorable view of the government as a benevolent master, rather than a greedy tyrant that must be kept in check. If you think centralizing the education of our children will result in anything other than the socialist system of the old Soviet Union, you are incredibly naive.

National standards = national curriculum = national indoctrination = national enslavement.
Profile Pic
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:8,059
Points:1,181,215
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 8:54:36 PM

I'm not sure if this is a zero tolerance issue or just a case of runaway political correctness.

In Rochester Hills Michigan a United States Army Lt. Colonel was refused admission to his daughters school because his uniform my offend some of the students at the school.

>>>"They told him some kids might not understand and might be offended. So they gave him a choice, told him he could phone in to the office or go home and change his clothes," said Ferhadson.

Baker was told of the same policy by four individual staff members at the school.<<<<
Army officer denied entry to his daughter's high school for wearing his uniform

If I was in charge of this school someone would wondering if they qualified for unemployment benefits.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 10, 2014 3:45:31 PM

"Some, like the one in the video, are just a complete waste of time for those with a mastery of the fundamentals and confusing to someone who doesn't."

A lack of understanding doesn't mean something is 'stupid', although that is the normal human reaction based on emotion. Nobody who wants to be able to do math in their head (outside of memorizing the most basic of arithmetic) 'carries the one'. Sorry.

The 'only' problem with Common Core is the amount of standardized testing that is associated with it. Other than that, it simply tightens learning standards for all subjects - which is a good thing.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 5:28:37 PM

"There is more than one way to solve a problem - bottom line. There is no 'wrong' way."

There are a myriad of ways to solve math problems, and none of them are technically wrong. Some, like the one in the video, are just a complete waste of time for those with a mastery of the fundamentals and confusing to someone who doesn't. The only reason to teach them is to make the kids feel stupid or put parents out of the educational process, or both.

"Are you not going to take responsibility for what you post? You could have called the link anything you want, yet you chose the most inflammatory title available."

I just used the title the story already had, which is what I typically do. Argue the "nearly a minute" claim if you like; I was just pointing out it was the author's claim, not mine.

"Explaining a skill is easier when shown on a simple problem..."

Not as easy as just solving it.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 9/5/2014 5:30:26 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 3:07:00 PM

"Actually, she starts explaining how to go about solving the problem about 25 seconds in, and actually starts writing about 45 seconds in."

Writing the problem down and explaining that she is going to use base 10 doesn't equate to 'solving the problem'

Nice try ;)

I'll give you the 45 sec mark - meaning MAXIMUM time is 35 seconds, including the end of the video. Barely half of what you claim.

"Even the 30 seconds she takes to manipulate the problem is an interminable amount of time for something that everyone, including 2nd graders, should know instantaneously; my 4 year old does."

Again, as she is going through the problem she is explaining how to do it. She it not being timed as if in a race. And again, demonstrations are easiest on simple problems...

"Btw, the headline wasn't mine, it was the title of the story."

Like I said, sensational theatrics, nothing more. Are you not going to take responsibility for what you post? You could have called the link anything you want, yet you chose the most inflammatory title available. Pretty telling, if you ask me.

There is more than one way to solve a problem - bottom line. There is no 'wrong' way.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 3:02:12 PM

"Then why don't we ever see a video of it being used for those "larger problems"?"

Because the video would have to be that much longer. Explaining a skill is easier when shown on a simple problem...
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 2:02:03 PM

"Further, the method can be used to solve much larger problems..."

Then why don't we ever see a video of it being used for those "larger problems"? Because it's just as conflated for bigger problems as for the simple ones. It's going to confuse 95% of students and slow them down. The other 5% would have figured it out for themselves and would have understood it better by doing so.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 1:50:51 PM

"Just for those paying attention, the maximum she could have taken per the video was ~30 seconds, since it is a 1:20 video and she doesn't actually start to 'solve' the problem until nearly 50 seconds in."

Actually, she starts explaining how to go about solving the problem about 25 seconds in, and actually starts writing about 45 seconds in. She finally gets done explaining it at 1:18, so including the explanation, it takes about 53 seconds. Even the 30 seconds she takes to manipulate the problem is an interminable amount of time for something that everyone, including 2nd graders, should know instantaneously; my 4 year old does.

Btw, the headline wasn't mine, it was the title of the story.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 9/5/2014 1:54:47 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 1:15:24 PM

"Video: Common Core Teacher Takes Nearly a Minute to Solve 9+6=15"

Just a bit of a misleading headline.

Just for those paying attention, the maximum she could have taken per the video was ~30 seconds, since it is a 1:20 video and she doesn't actually start to 'solve' the problem until nearly 50 seconds in. So your math skills apparently could do with some help ;)

Additionally, she takes time to explain how she is solving it, so no, it doesn't take anywhere near 1 minute as you have implied. Nice bit of sensationalism there, though.

Further, the method can be used to solve much larger problems than simple arithmetic problems that we as adults have memorized...
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Sep 5, 2014 11:53:19 AM

Video: Common Core Teacher Takes Nearly a Minute to Solve 9+6=15

With education like this, they'll have society dumbed-down enough for the socialist takeover in no time.
Profile Pic
Grizdad
Champion Author Montana

Posts:7,947
Points:1,157,270
Joined:Oct 2010
Message Posted: Sep 3, 2014 7:39:40 AM

Sounds like a good idea.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 12:45:59 PM

"I can't produce any evidence to support it. You only have my word."

It isn't your word that I would be concerned about.
Profile Pic
djvang
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:33,039
Points:4,772,040
Joined:May 2001
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 4:51:55 PM

Zero tolerance policies aren't in place because they make students or teachers safer. These policies are in place because the administration believes they insulate the administration from being sued for their actions. They think if they rely on judgement on each individual case, they open themselves more to suits. It's all about lawsuits.

[Edited by: djvang at 8/27/2014 4:52:21 PM EST]
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 4:46:04 PM

"I would hardly call that a 'fact'."

Well, obviously since the information was relayed to me personally, I can't produce any evidence to support it. You only have my word.

In the strictest sense, you are correct, schools are not allowed to expel a student because the parents won't put them on drugs. They can, however, expel them for "behavior issues" that the parent is unwilling to have them "treated" for. So if the kid is being "disruptive" and the parent won't put them on drugs, they can be expelled. How disruptive do they have to be? That's at the discretion of the the teacher and school administration, so the school can, in effect, expel a child because the parent won't put them on drugs. They just don't say it that way.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 11:54:52 AM

"Obviously not, but the fact remains that in order for those children to stay in public school, they would have had to be on drugs."

I would hardly call that a 'fact'. Show mw what the school said, then we can talk.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:19:43 AM

"perhaps you weren't given both sides of the story."

Obviously not, but the fact remains that in order for those children to stay in public school, they would have had to be on drugs. They are now taught at home, drug free, and doing far better academically than they were in public school.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:12:10 AM

"Maybe it doesn't happen where you live, Weaslespit, but I've got friends who homeschool because they were given an ultimatum that their kids needed "treatment" or they couldn't come back to class."

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and suggest that perhaps you weren't given both sides of the story.
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:40:30 PM

Maybe it doesn't happen where you live, Weaslespit, but I've got friends who homeschool because they were given an ultimatum that their kids needed "treatment" or they couldn't come back to class.

It turned out the kids were restless because they were bored and under-challenged by the pace of learning. When you have "no child is left behind", the pace is set by the slowest kid in the class. The rest of the kids (especially the boys) get antsy and act out. It's compounded by the lack of opportunity for physical activity (recess) that allows them to burn of their pent-up energy.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,604
Points:527,185
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:02:46 PM

"...but most places they (teachers) can push the the admin. into requiring that a child be tested and put on a drug if the Dr. recommends, before allowing them in their classroom."

Absolutely false. You are showing your ignorance now on the subject...
Profile Pic
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,494
Points:59,155
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 11:53:48 AM

"Teachers cannot prescribe drugs, FYI, nor can they even recommend that a child seek medical counsel."

They cannot prescribe, but most places they can push the the admin. into requiring that a child be tested and put on a drug if the Dr. recommends, before allowing them in their classroom.
Post a reply Back to Topics