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Author Topic: UAW bites the dust in Chattanooga Back to Topics
Panama19

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Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2014 1:38:15 AM

.
"The 712-626 vote released late Friday stunned many labor experts who expected a UAW win because Volkswagen tacitly endorsed the union and even allowed organizers into the Chattanooga factory to make sales pitches.

Organizing a Southern plant is so crucial to the union that UAW President Bob King told workers in a speech that the union has no long-term future without it"

Workers at Tennessee Volkswagen factory reject United Auto Workers union


[Edited by: Panama19 at 2/15/2014 1:38:25 AM EST]
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:15:34 PM

"When something apparently illogical happens, it usually means that you have overlooked a trail of money somewhere."

Or it could mean you are applying different logic than the people at VW. They come from Europe, where there is a tradition of stable workplaces with unions, and the union/mgmt relationship is less confrontational than here.

A good thing about European unions is that they tend to follow more of a craft union model, where the union negotiates a floor wage, and individual employees can be recognized for superior performance by the employer with higher wages.

[Edited by: sgm4law at 4/18/2014 3:16:40 PM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:11:39 PM

It's very interesting, and perhaps unique, that management is also for the union and is also unhappy that the employees don't want one. When something apparently illogical happens, it usually means that you have overlooked a trail of money somewhere. So the question is, what's in it for VW management?

I can come up with two possibilities right off the top of my head. Doesn't the Bozocare law exempt health care plans for union workers from the rules of what has to be covered? Could it be that management wants the union so that they can have a health care plan that doesn't cost them as much as Bozocare would? I know the employer mandate got postponed this year, but it's still coming. My other thought is that I wonder if there is some sort sweetheart deal being offered under the table to VW for fleet cars for government contingent upon the unions getting a foothold in the south. That wouldn't surprise me either. The bottom line is that there is something in this for VW management and I'm sure that it has to be monetary somehow.


mudtoe
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:48:29 PM

This story might not be over.
When is an election not an election?
When is the result of the vote not accepted?
The answer is when union and the company both still want the unionization to take place.

Labor Fascism in Chattanooga

"Amazingly, the UAW and the automaker both refuse to take the workers' "no" for an answer. The two sides are acting in unison to overturn the democratically expressed will of the workers."

"Nullifying an election by fiat with the collusion of corporate management and organized labor is something we would expect to see in a nation dominated by fascism, a dangerous foreign ideology..."
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 9:34:27 AM

That's all they CAN do. There is a two-year moratorium on a union re-vote otherwise. I seriously doubt it will be successful.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 9:23:49 AM

"After employees at a Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, Tenn. narrowly voted against joining the United Auto Workers a couple weeks ago, union officials vowed the fight wasn't over: Outside groups had muddled the results with "threats and intimidation," they said, and the election shouldn't stand. On Friday, they lodged a formal objection with the National Labor Relations Board, asking it to hold the whole thing over again.

It's one of the most important union battles of this young century, given how much the UAW has staked on organizing Volkswagen for its strategy to take back the South, which has lured dozens of foreign automakers over the years by promising freedom from pesky labor unions. And it's one the UAW should have won: In an extremely rare circumstance, Volkswagen actually supported organization as a means to create the kind of collaborative management structure that exists in the rest of its factories. It even jointly filed the objection with the UAW."


The UAW AND Volkswagen file JOINTLY to appeal vote based on Corker's Interference...
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 12:22:42 AM

JFK also ran as a strident anti-communist, inventing a false accusation of a "missile gap" to use against Nixon. He was NOT a fan of MLK - he and his brother had the FBI bug him everywhere he went. Today's Democratic party is NOT the Democratic party of your father. One of Reagan's greatest quips was "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Party left me."

When it comes to desegregating education, it was Ike who sent Federal troops into Little Rock. First time the US Gov't. did such a thing.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2014 11:42:05 AM

Jay - and you don't think Kennedy wouldn't have been run off the convention floor on a rail from the DNC? Are you kidding me? Kennedy escalated the Viet Nam conflict AND lowered the highest marginal tax rates (from 90% down to I think 70%). Libs today would have had a conniption for reducing taxes by 20% for the "richest" Americans.

OTOH, Ike was very moderate, and presided over a unique time in US history when we had pretty low crime, general increases in prosperity among ALL social classes, and a common enemy for us all to rally around (Communists). I think Ike would have been more like Ronald Reagan or Bush I if he would have been around later.
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jayrad1957
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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2014 10:31:13 AM

Eisenhower would have been run out of today's gop.
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Service66
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2014 10:30:12 AM


JFK would be run out of today's Dem Party.

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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 3:58:37 PM

Democrat- Truman

Republican- Eisenhower
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 3:57:28 PM

"OK, so then the question becomes "who is the quintessential Republican and Democrat?"

Suggestion box is open..."


Republican = Ike

Democrat = JFK
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 3:23:09 PM

Fire Departments are volunteer where I live. I choose to contribute to them each year and occasionally take over brownies or a casserole.

Union Members Indicted for Burning Down Quaker Church

Maybe they can unionize their fellow felons.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 3:11:00 PM

"My house hasn't burned down in many decades. What is the benefit of a fire department NOW? Where is the return on all that considerable tax money they use?"

That is about as dumb of a comparison as they come.

[Edited by: AFSNCO at 2/20/2014 3:11:16 PM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 3:06:55 PM

ica: "My house hasn't burned down in many decades. What is the benefit of a fire department NOW? Where is the return on all that considerable tax money they use? "


What's the benefit of having two fire departments and paying for both? Government has taken over the functions once performed exclusively by unions. Unions now only exist to line the pockets of those in charge of the unions and the politicians whom those union bosses donate their members' dues to.


The private sector seems to have adjusted quite well over the past decades as unions have been removed from the equation, and Scott Walker has demonstrated that government works much more efficiently without government sector unions.



mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/20/2014 3:09:41 PM EST]
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IammeCA
Veteran Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 1:51:45 PM

"You haven't needed a union for those things in many decades. What is the benefit of a union NOW? Where is the return on the considerable dues they charge?"

My house hasn't burned down in many decades. What is the benefit of a fire department NOW? Where is the return on all that considerable tax money they use?
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 1:42:04 PM

RN: "But yet Walker exempted police and fire unions from his union busting...So i guess conservatives have selective hate for unions... "


Actually, that was merely a tactical decision, not a strategic one. The wisdom of that decision was shown in Ohio, which didn't exempt these unions in their constitutional amendment similar to Wisconsin. It failed in Ohio because the fire and police unions scared enough people that voting yes would mean the end of their fire and police protection.

I fully expect, now that the benefits of eviscerating the public sector unions in Wisconsin have been wonderfully demonstrated to the taxpayers that it saved all kinds of money and no government services were hurt, that Scott Walker will get around to the fire and police unions, assuming of course that he doesn't become the next President of the United States first, in which case it will be up to his successor to do it.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/20/2014 1:43:48 PM EST]
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 1:31:19 PM

OK, so then the question becomes "who is the quintessential Republican and Democrat?"

Suggestion box is open...
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 1:26:43 PM

"So now Walker is "conservatives", implying ALL conservatives?!"


That's the same standard being applied in the NAACP thread, (one guy representing all) so I guess that should apply here, no?

*ROTFL*
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 1:23:17 PM

So now Walker is "conservatives", implying ALL conservatives?!

Incidently, I belong to an "association"as we are not a union. They do collectively bargain [badly] for the teachers' contract in our county and you don't have to join. I joined for the liability insurance. It is needed just as badly by teachers as doctors. I've seldom voted for the candidates supported by the Association.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 1:05:58 PM

"I'd rather ask Scott Walker. He showed the voters what government unions are really good for, as in lining their pockets with the taxpayers' money."


But yet Walker exempted police and fire unions from his union busting...So i guess conservatives have selective hate for unions...
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 12:39:30 PM

RN: "Maybe you should ask the police and firefighters??? "


I'd rather ask Scott Walker. He showed the voters what government unions are really good for, as in lining their pockets with the taxpayers' money.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/20/2014 12:39:43 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 12:29:00 PM

Police unions ae great if you are a cop.
They are terrible if you are the one calling the cops to come help you.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 8:41:54 AM

Hmm..cutting off their Noses to spite their own faces:

"Volkswagen's top labor representative threatened on Wednesday to try to block further investments by the German carmaker in the southern United States if its workers there are not unionized.

Workers at VW's factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee, last Friday voted against representation by the United Auto Workers union (UAW), rejecting efforts by VW representatives to set up a German-style works council at the plant.

German workers enjoy considerable influence over company decisions under the legally enshrined "co-determination" principle which is anathema to many politicians in the U.S. who see organized labor as a threat to profits and job growth.

Chattanooga is VW's only factory in the U.S. and one of the company's few in the world without a works council.

"I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the south again," said Bernd Osterloh, head of VW's works council.

"If co-determination isn't guaranteed in the first place, we as workers will hardly be able to vote in favor" of potentially building another plant in the U.S. south, Osterloh, who is also on VW's supervisory board, said.

The 20-member panel - evenly split between labor and management - has to approve any decision on closing plants or building new ones."



"The conservatives stirred up massive, anti-union sentiments," Osterloh said. "It's possible that the conclusion will be drawn that this interference amounted to unfair labor praxis."
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 8:28:04 AM

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, a conservative, announced on Sunday that he recently had the "fortune of being hired by a great company", Chrysler, where all workers must be UAW members.

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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 8:05:26 AM

I see some here are willing to support sweat shops around the world before supporting American workers.

Well its your right when money leaves our shores where dose it go.

It goes to support all those socialist and communist governments that are always touted in these threads.

So who is patriotic and who is not, vote with your purchases?
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 7:47:37 AM

"You haven't needed a union for those things in many decades. What is the benefit of a union NOW? Where is the return on the considerable dues they charge? "


Maybe you should ask the police and firefighters???
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 11:21:57 PM

"vacation pay, sick days, retirement, 40 hour workweek and many other things"

You haven't needed a union for those things in many decades. What is the benefit of a union NOW? Where is the return on the considerable dues they charge? The union came in and make a pitch at my wife's employer. The company said you can join a union and pay their dues but you won't get any more than you would without a union. The workers decided against the union. The company spent money to have someone who was formerly employed by a union explain what the benefits and drawbacks would be. However, the president of the company said they wouldn't spend that money again, next time. If the workers decide to unionize, that's fine. Any additional costs will be absorbed through reduced employee numbers. After four rounds of layoffs and rehires, they knew the score. Nothing a union can or will do to help THAT situation.

Now maybe if Obama actually DID something, instead of making up numbers of jobs "saved or created" from thin, hot air...
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 11:12:51 PM

That's why Canadians come here in droves; to be entertained by our insanity. Of course, it IS difficult to upstage the crack-addicted mayor there...
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herbiepopnecker
Champion Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 10:46:05 PM

You people are mad as hatters.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 10:42:30 PM

KansasGun: <<<"Anything and everything I can do to bring ruin to any union I'm 100% proactive, refusing to purchase anything made by a union since 2006...if we can't find a product we need that isn't union made we simply do without or gladly purchase non-American made in doing so.">>>

--I never thought of doing this, but I think I will immediately adopt this conscious objection of strong arm tactics by our unions. Just as I refrain from giving any money to my destitute crack addicted sister (it's hard, but it's the best for her), I can also refrain from giving my money to power addicted and manipulative union shops for their own good as well. Time to look at possibly buying a VW! I don't want VW to find themselves in the same boat as the people in Detroit after they killed off their industry...
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 10:26:17 PM


jayrad1957, "How many cons here are willing to give up the benefits afforded to them due to efforts of labor years ago?"

That was then, this is now.

Unions = Mob.


[Edited by: Panama19 at 2/19/2014 10:27:56 PM EST]
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 8:44:08 PM

It is sad that people can say they love this country, but have so much hatred for fellow Americans...

SMH!!!
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 8:32:54 PM

Norm, I find it amazing how cons can kick their fellow Americans under the bus because of their hatred of unions. How many cons here are willing to give up the benefits afforded to them due to efforts of labor years ago? Not many, I'd wager.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 8:15:02 PM

"Do I buy things just because they're made by Americans? Sometimes that is a deciding factor. I feel that I do more good by patronizing local establishments. "


Amen Brother, so do I...
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 8:13:56 PM

"Anything and everything I can do to bring ruin to any union I'm 100% proactive, refusing to purchase anything made by a union since 2006...if we can't find a product we need that isn't union made we simply do without or gladly purchase non-American made in doing so."


Interesting how people who reaped the rewards from Union sacrifice and labor, you know, vacation pay, sick days, retirement, 40 hour workweek and many other things that Unions stuck and sacrificed for that are now written into our Labor Laws, will now kick Unions in the backsides and turn on them...

That's kinda like spitting in your parent's faces simply because you have a different point of view...

And these are the same folks who pontificate about what's wrong with everybody else...

*facepalm*
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 5:48:02 PM

TT: "They can be forgiven for wondering which side the union is on." "


I think the vote shows that most of them believe that the unions isn't on their side, and they are right. All the union is interested in is a piece of the fruits of their labor.


mudtoe
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 3:34:54 PM

"Bob King, the head of the UAW, thinks they are guilty of false consciousness. If only they weren’t so viciously misled by outside agitators, such as Tennessee senator Bob Corker, the former mayor of Chattanooga who helped to woo VW to the city in the first place. He rightly said that the UAW is in a “death spiral” and, more controversially, that the automaker would make a rapid decision to invest further in the plant if the UAW lost the vote.

King alleges that Corker’s comments violated “the spirit” of labor law, which is nonsense. The senator doesn’t work for VW, and he has the First Amendment right to say whatever he wants. If Corker is guilty of dirty pool, what about President Barack Obama, who told a group of Democratic lawmakers that no one opposed the UAW organizing the Chattanooga plant except people “more concerned about German shareholders than American workers”? That’s not inflammatory?

The only law that will satisfy King is one that forbids anyone from saying a discouraging word about his union, which was found alone in a room in 2009 with two nearly dead car companies. After the UAW did so much to chase automaking out of Detroit with unsustainable labor costs and ridiculous work rules, it is no wonder that workforces haven’t welcomed it into the South, where right-to-work states have become alluring destinations for foreign car companies.

For the longest time, the business model of the UAW has been to take its members’ dues and funnel them to friendly Democratic politicians. Unless it breaks into the South, the union knows it’s all but doomed. It may feel this institutional imperative keenly, but workers in good manufacturing jobs who owe nothing to this self-serving dinosaur from the 20th century don’t. They can be forgiven for wondering which side the union is on."
link to source
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:54:22 PM

Wal-Mart employs more Americans thanthe UAW represents.

[Edited by: teacher_tim at 2/19/2014 2:54:38 PM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:48:51 PM

cliff: "How anti-American can the GOPers get?"


Correction: Anti-Democrat



mudtoe
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:43:48 PM

"So, cons would rather support Chinese labor subsidized by the Chinese government over fellow Americans. Sad."

How anti-American can the GOPers get?

He must have a load of Walmart stock.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:42:09 PM

Hey, Kerry was just saying in Jakarta that we need to help the global economy and stop being so selfish; do you disagree with him, jayrad?

Do I buy things just because they're made by Americans? Sometimes that is a deciding factor. I feel that I do more good by patronizing local establishments.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:41:24 PM

jrad: "I'd reply, but I am speechless. "


Excellent!



mudtoe
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:39:40 PM

I'd reply, but I am speechless.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:31:47 PM

jrad: "So, cons would rather support Chinese labor subsidized by the Chinese government over fellow Americans."


The Chinese aren't trying to constantly put their hand in my pocket to help themselves to the fruits of my labor. The "fellow Americans" who are union members and voting democrat and giving democrats some of their dues money are doing precisely that. Therefore I have a vested interest in doing what I can to make them fail.


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/19/2014 2:33:57 PM EST]
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 2:23:02 PM

So, cons would rather support Chinese labor subsidized by the Chinese government over fellow Americans. Sad.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 1:41:32 PM

kg: "Anything and everything I can do to bring ruin to any union I'm 100% proactive, refusing to purchase anything made by a union since 2006...if we can't find a product we need that isn't union made we simply do without or gladly purchase non-American made in doing so. "


Agreed. I also do everything possible not to buy anything that was made in a union shop, as I have no desire to make a donation to the democrat party. I'll cheerfully buy foreign goods rather than union made goods.


mudtoe
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KansasGunman
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 1:33:50 PM

Anything and everything I can do to bring ruin to any union I'm 100% proactive, refusing to purchase anything made by a union since 2006...if we can't find a product we need that isn't union made we simply do without or gladly purchase non-American made in doing so.



[Edited by: KansasGunman at 2/19/2014 1:35:04 PM EST]
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nraacct
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 12:08:45 PM

VW workers may block southern U.S. deals if no unions: labor chief

I also have a sinking feeling that the Federal government will try to get involved as well.

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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 11:17:44 AM

The workers made the decision that they did not want the union. It was pretty simple. The vote was close but it didn't go in favor of the UAW. The people down here in the South have seen what the unions do to a car plant. The workers understand that the union really protects the jobs of the poor workers by making it harder for the employers to terminate them while stifling the upward mobility of those that want success. Most importantly, the employees have seen what has happened to other UAW controlled plants. GM Doraville and Ford Hapeville are just two recent examples. One is a group of empty buildings and the other has been bulldozed. Those highly paid UAW employees that were able to find jobs are now asking, "Do you want fries with that…" While the union fat cats didn't give back anything.

Forming a union when you have safety concerns or are working huge amount of hours off the books are one thing. But if you are just trying to shake the company down, it won't work. VW pays a decent wage for the area and treats its employees pretty well. The UAW lost.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 7:58:24 AM

...and they were trying to do for the South what they did for Detriot.
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