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Author Topic: Thats it folks - Al Gore is all wet - we in for the ice age Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 1:19:22 PM

Shades of 1970 - here we go again.
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>>>Better start investing in some warm clothes because German scientists are predicting that the Earth will cool over the next century.

German scientists found that two naturally occurring cycles will combine to lower global temperatures during the 21st century, eventually dropping to levels corresponding with the “little ice age” of 1870.

“Due to the de Vries cycle, the global temperature will drop until 2100 to a value corresponding to the ‘little ice age’ of 1870,” write German scientists Horst-Joachim Luedecke and Carl-Otto Weiss of the European Institute for Climate and Energy.

Researchers used historical temperature data and data from cave stalagmites to show a 200-year solar cycle, called the de Vries cycle.<<<

So we need to drill for more energy to keep us warm. Will anyone ever admit that trying to predict global weather patterns is futile.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 9:24:11 AM

So, oilpan4, what is your explanation for the warming of ocean currents in the North Atlantic,

"The seabirds' plight "is a huge concern ... not just in the North Atlantic but also globally," Vigfusdottir said. The cold waters of the North Atlantic are a major driving force for the Earth's weather and among the most productive fisheries in the world, so the birds' problems could indicate trouble for the region's major industry and the global food supply."

Warming oceans and earlier thaws are driving away the seabirds' prey; unleashing deadly, unseasonal storms; and knocking tight breeding schedules off-kilter. Mounting carbon dioxide absorption and melting glaciers are acidifying and diluting the aquatic balance, jeopardizing marine life and the creatures that depend on it for food."

Got a good explanation for that?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 2:00:59 PM

"We have nothing to do with the withering populations of seabird. We do not pollute with Carbon monoxide and PCB's do we"?

Carbon Monoxide has a half life of 5 hours in air, not going to worry about that.

PCBs were banned in 1979 after the US made roughly 1/3 of all PCBs ever created.
Who wants to hear a really funny story about PCBs? Here it goes.
Actually lobbyist (from guess who) convinced democrat controlled congress to make PCBs mandatory safety equipment in electronics and it got signed into law by none other than the great LBJ in 1966.

So, got any more epic fails created by liberals you wish to complain about?

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 8/31/2014 2:06:40 PM EST]
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 10:31:33 AM

From my earlier link about the Puffins in Iceland;

"The suspected culprits are many. But the leading candidates are the array of profound changes under way in the world's oceans—their climate, their chemistry, their food webs, their loads of pollutants.

Warming oceans and earlier thaws are driving away the seabirds' prey; unleashing deadly, unseasonal storms; and knocking tight breeding schedules off-kilter. Mounting carbon dioxide absorption and melting glaciers are acidifying and diluting the aquatic balance, jeopardizing marine life and the creatures that depend on it for food."

"Winds and currents funneling pollution northward from Europe, North America, and China bring more bad news for seabirds preying high on the food web. Mercury is ubiquitous—and rising fast in some areas. Brominated flame retardants, perfluorinated coatings, pesticides, plasticizers, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), and more are contaminating a variety of species and locations. And masses of chemical-laced microplastics could be released by melting ice sheets.

Seabirds "are critical for detecting changes that are happening even more rapidly than we suspected," said Jennifer Provencher, a doctoral student at Carleton University in Ottawa who examines colonies in Arctic Canada. "We are getting basically a year-to-year-to-year update of the health of the oceans and the health of the environment through these seabird studies."

It's likely all these threats are adding up, sounding a warning across the north, she said."

Pollution and warmer waters have nothing to do with man's effect on climate do they? Nahh.....can't be. We have nothing to do with the withering populations of seabird. We do not pollute with Carbon monoxide and PCB's do we? We have not caused the warming of the oceans have we?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 2:43:05 AM

"second-longest US hurricane drought ever recorded".

Problem with hurricane drought is regular drought too.

When a good hurricane plows into Virginia you can bet on seeing up to a foot of rain in a few days. They pretty much stop a drought dead.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 9:43:52 PM

bct1 - "on record" Here's a flash, the earth is 4.5 billion years old.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 3:49:02 PM

btc - thats the same people who moved the weather station into the asphalt parking lot or next to the AC exhaust duct to make it easier to find them right?

By the way be sure to tell us when you have reduced your use of energy by 80% or so in your efforts to save the earth.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 2:04:02 PM

"Both agencies said nine of the 10th warmest years on record have happened in the 21st century. The hottest year was 2010, according to NOAA."

Hmmm....

Weather is not evidence of climate change until it mounts up as evidence, I75.

"Those longer trends show the world has seen "fairly dramatic warming" since the 1960s with "a smaller rate of warming over the last decade or so," said Thomas Karl, director of NOAA's National Climatic Data Center. In the past 50 years, the world annual temperature has increased by nearly 1.4 degrees (0.8 degrees Celsius), according to NOAA data."

[Edited by: btc1 at 8/30/2014 2:06:53 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 12:30:08 AM

Early freeze in Maine.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 8:51:52 PM

I keep watching the news about global warming and wonder what these scientists would do if they had to go before a professor with the data they have now. I see the conversation going something like this.

Student; I have a theory and a computer model that supports it.
Professor; What's your theory?
Student; Well, I think that as Co2 is increased the surface temperature will also increase.
Professor: Isn't Co2 a trace gas. Just how much is there in the atmosphere?
Student: About 4 parts per billion.
Professor: How much is man made?
Student: about half or 2 parts per billion.
Professor; That doesn't seem like much. Let me see you data. Ok is this all of it.
Student; Well no some of it doesn't work with the expected results.
Professor; Did you use the same methodology in colleting all of your data?
Student; No right here we changed the way we monitored and collected the data.
Professor; You do know that Co2 is doesn't account for all of the warming in your data sets, right.
Student; Yes that's why we had to add in a feedback loop.
Professor; What do you think will happen if the Co2 levels keep going up. Tell me all of the results.
Student: Well we will have an increase in planetary suffice temperatures. In fact the temperatures we are seeing have never been seen by man before. This will result in an increase in the number of tornados and hurricanes and both will become stronger. We will see the polar ice caps at both poles melt and a large increase in sea levels as a result. We will also see more droughts and forest fires. Both the droughts and forest fires will also be more severer.
Professor; Well it sounds good let me see all of your research and supporting data.

The next week the teacher and student get together to talk about the theory.
Professor; I looked at your data and compared it to some other data sets and have a few questions. Your historical data has a few problems. The little ice age is missing from your chart. The med-evil warm period is also missing. In fact the mid-evil warm period was warmer than it is now. Can you explain that.
Student; I didn't think it was important. (and to himself, I had hoped you wouldn't notice.)
Professor: I also noticed that right here where Co2 and temperatures both go up you changed the way you measured the temperature. Did you continue to collect data the old way and compare it to the new method to insure the two data sets were compatible?
Student: I didn't think it was necessary because the new method of data collection is so much more accurate. I have complete confidence in my historical proxy data up to the point where I changed the data collection method.
Professor: You say you have "complete confidence" in the historical proxy day but you have adjusted the historical data collected by people in the past several time, and always in the same direction. Why don't you have confidence in the hard data by people in the past?
Student: Well the models were not working as we expected so we had to look for a way to make them work and the easiest way was to adjust some of the numbers and I don't think those particular records are as accurate as we once thought.
Professor: I'm glad you mentioned that the models were not matching what you predicted. They seemed to look good right up to this point here, but then the prediction and the real world seem to split. In fact the real world is about to fall right off the bottom of your range of confidence in your model. In fact it looks like there has been little or no warming for a about half the time since you made your prediction.
Student: I think you misunderstood me when I said global warming I meant climate change.
Professor: Ok lest talk about change. There has been a reduction in sea ice in the northern hemisphere but the southern hemisphere has more than made up for the loss in the north. I guess that would explain the lack of sudden sea level rise. How do you explain that there has been no increase in the number of tornados or hurricanes or their strength, in fact we seem to be in a drought for both. As long as I have mentioned drought we are not seeing any more drought, flooding or fires. Can you explain that?
Student; Can I get back to you on that, but right now I think it has something to do with the way heat moves around in the ocean.
Professor: The trend that took the real world out of your predicted range stated about 15 years ago. How long do you think it will be before the predictions get back on line with the real world? At what point do you say the models or your theory are wrong?
Student; Well to answerer your second question first I thought 20 years but now I think it will take at least 30 years before we can say we did something wrong. But we are confident that after this little anomaly the models and the real world will come back in line.
Professor: How long will it take before we start to see the two coming back in line, how many years?
Student: It could be up to 30 years.
Professor: I'll be dead by then you may be too.
Professor: In the original proposal for your theory you said that natural variability was no longer the driving force for global temperatures but now you are saying that the oceans are what is stopping the projected increase in temperatures. Wouldn't that be a form of natural variability?
Student: We may have overestimated the effects of Co2 and under estimated the strength of the natural forces that affect the temperature.
Professor; Give the poor accuracy of you models and the lame excuses you have given why should I and the school support this theory?
Student: Well if we can sell it to enough politicians we could be in line for some huge research grants from the federal government. The school could get money and if we play our card right we could get speaking gigs that pay better than being a teacher in a collage or as a weather man on T.V.
Professor: I want my name on this paper and if any one argues with us we will destroy their reputations, compare them to the Nazis, threaten them with law suits and charges of crimes against the planet. If that doesn't work we can always say they are paid shills for the big oil companies. everyone hates them and anyone connected to them. Just remember every weather event is caused by this global warming, I mean climate change. We are going to be rich and famous. This is great work.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 5:48:07 PM

Now didnt all the AGW proponents all say we were going to have more and stronger storms?
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>>>Its been almost nine years since the last major hurricane struck the US Mainland. That's 3,230 days.

Remember, we are talking MAJOR hurricanes, of Category 3 strength or higher. The last major hurricane was Hurricane Wilma which hit Florida on October 24, 2005. This is unprecedented in the hurricane record since 1900. Its a full 2 1/2 years ahead of the second-longest US hurricane drought ever recorded.<<<

Temps are dropping, no hurricanes that are large/strong ones, Maine getting frost already - when will the AGW folks give it up and look at reality?????
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 11:07:05 PM

We are killing them off? That conclusions is not based in reality btc.



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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 9:57:54 PM

Puffins are really cool looking birds. I like Puffins. It is a shame we are killing them off.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 5:14:21 PM

tower: "It makes sense that they would "massage" the data. The models can't be wrong can they. "


Isn't it amazing how deceitful the left is willing to be in order to hoodwink people? And these are the people we are supposed to turn over control of our lives and wallets to?


mudtoe
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 4:35:47 PM

It makes sense that they would "massage" the data. The models can't be wrong can they.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 2:53:14 PM

'Massaged' is such a warmer fuzzier notion than 'manipulated', being massaged makes you feel good about what is happening to you while being manipulated implies you won't like it when you find out.....
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 1:29:06 PM

So with the BOM in Austrailia caught red handed, it's probably safe to assume temp data is being manipulated all over.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 7:59:15 AM

Problems not just with NASA/NOAA. BOM down under taking heat for altering the past
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 5:29:30 AM

Evidence of new, present-day glaciation beginning in the Scottish Highlands
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 5:29:17 AM

Ewps - my previous post was a redundancy; substitution of the Atlantic for the Pacific is the last of the 38 egg-scuses for explaining the missing heat in the atmosphere.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 11:09:54 PM

mudtoe: "Apparently what the warmers are trying to say now is that solar activity, or the lack thereof, can mask global warming, but high solar activity has no effect on raising temperatures during hot years; those warm years numbers were all man made."

Yes. The #1 climate change force on this planet is only acknowledged when it fits their argument (or more correctly - as an excuse for why their argument has failed).

-------------------

This just in - Ridiculous excuse #39: Missing heat at bottom of Atlantic, not Pacific as previously thought.

[Edited by: ministorage at 8/22/2014 11:14:13 PM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 8:56:04 PM

mini: " But unless solar activity picks up, I'm guessing the second half of the Farmer's Almanac predictions will be a bust."


Correct. Apparently what the warmers are trying to say now is that solar activity, or the lack thereof, can mask global warming, but high solar activity has no effect on raising temperatures during hot years; those warm years numbers were all man made.


mudtoe
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 7:38:36 PM

Comment from the mini article:

"It doesn't square, but you can program a model to say anything you like. The net feedbacks are negative anyway, including the primary greenhouse gas water vapor, which all models falsely assume to be a positive feedback. Same with clouds. The models are little more than expensive computer games."

That person must be an engineer.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 2:06:32 PM

Updated list of excuses for the 18 year 'pause' in global warming

An updated list of at least... 38 excuses for the 18 year 'pause' in global warming, including recent scientific papers, media quotes, blogs, and related debunkings

If you can't explain the 'pause', you can't explain the cause...
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 5:40:33 AM

" they were telling us that we were going into an ice age because pollution was blocking out the sun, the "cure" was exactly the same: turn control of your life and your wallet over to government."

You have to know your audience. Doesn't take much thought to bobble head right along with whatever government tells you is best for you.


[Edited by: theTower at 8/22/2014 5:40:49 AM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 12:19:31 AM

oilpan: "They must be the luckiest political party on earth."


Yea, they were so lucky that in the 70s when they were telling us that we were going into an ice age because pollution was blocking out the sun, the "cure" was exactly the same: turn control of your life and your wallet over to government. How lucky could they be that the cure to everything which threatens the world just happens to fit perfectly with their political agenda? Wow, simply amazing!


mudtoe
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 10:22:37 PM

It sucks to be an alarmist this year
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 12:05:12 PM

""Now what are the odds that everybody of a particular political persuasion would just happen to believe in the same scientific theory, if there weren't a political agenda at the root of it all?""

What are the odds that every enviro/political agenda they have ever wanted just happens to the the solution for this problem that they discovered?

They must be the luckiest political party on earth.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 9:25:31 AM

‘The study shows an unexpected link between solar activity and climate change,’

Unexpected? What moron doesn't expect solar output to affect Earth's temperature? Oh yeah, the hardcore AGW believers who think it's all about humans and what we do, and nothing else matters.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 9:06:09 AM

I will go way out on a limb and predict that it will be cold next winter and then hot next summer. And I blame the sun for all of that. And the Earth's annoying angle of inclination.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 5:29:40 AM

"FARMER'S ALMANAC PREDICTS A SUPER COLD WINTER"

It also predicts a hotter summer.

"Not scientific but seemingly more accurate than most meteorologists."

The secret formula supposedly takes into account sunspots, as well as meteorological weather patterns, both of which are based on measured scientific observation of cycles.

"And way MORE accurate than the global warming lemmings."

With its prediction of a hot summer 2015, it plays right into the latest 'climate change' variation, which makes the claim that global warming brings 'climate extremes,' although summer extreme temps have been declining - not increasing, as the CO2-centric global warming models have continued projecting (and getting wrong). Hopefully next summer will be hot. Warmth is a good thing. But unless solar activity picks up, I'm guessing the second half of the Farmer's Almanac predictions will be a bust.

[Edited by: ministorage at 8/21/2014 5:39:15 AM EST]
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 5:19:45 AM

‘unexpected link between solar activity and climate change’ found in Greenland ice

Lund University have published a reconstruction of solar activity vs snow accumulation in Greenland, which indicates a strong correlation between solar minima and a colder climate.

‘The study shows an unexpected link between solar activity and climate change,’ Dr Muscheler said in a press release.

‘It shows both that changes in solar activity are nothing new and that solar activity influences the climate, especially on a regional level. ‘Understanding these processes helps us to better forecast the climate in certain regions.’

Read more, link above
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 5:03:25 AM

"Now what are the odds that everybody of a particular political persuasion would just happen to believe in the same scientific theory, if there weren't a political agenda at the root of it all?"

Until one of them needs to get elected or re-elected in a conservative leaning state or a state directly affected by the so called solutions. Then they come out against it, at least around election time. The act begins about how they will stand up to the EPA, blah blah blah.
Its all lies. Should they win, they will fall back to their core ideology and embrace the leftwing AGW hysteria once more. The people that put them in won't be able to do a thing about it. To many bobble heads.
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 5:02:55 AM

­


[Edited by: theTower at 8/21/2014 5:04:53 AM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 11:16:15 PM

Both are good indicators. The other glaring indicator is that every single person on the left without a single exception to my knowledge professes a belief in AGW. Now what are the odds that everybody of a particular political persuasion would just happen to believe in the same scientific theory, if there weren't a political agenda at the root of it all? I've said a number of times that if you could pluck a political leader out of history from an era that had no idea about the scientific method or meteorology, say Julius Ceaser for example, and let them read about AGW and who is on which side of the issue and what those on each side support in the way of government's role in society, they would know right away that it's a scam being used for political purposes without having to know a single thing about science. It's that obvious.





mudtoe
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 6:47:17 PM



Not scientific but seemingly more accurate than most meteorologists.

And way MORE accurate than the global warming lemmings.

FARMER'S ALMANAC PREDICTS A SUPER COLD WINTER

"Published Wednesday, the New Hampshire-based almanac predicts a "super-cold" winter in the eastern two-thirds of the country. The west will remain a little bit warmer than normal.

"Colder is just almost too familiar a term," Editor Janice Stillman said. "Think of it as a refriger-nation."

More bad news for those who can't stand snow: Most of the Northeast is expected to get more snowfall than normal, though it will be below normal in New England."

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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 1:12:28 PM

ministorage - "When I first realized climate science was the antithesis of the scientific method, that's when I stopped believing. "

For me it was the "settled science" line. Alarm bells went off in my head. Science, by definition, is never settled.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 9:16:41 AM

Current NASA Worldview satellite photo...

No Northwest Passage This Year
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 6:31:03 AM

"Chapter 1 page 2, they were pushing AGW."

So very sad. When I first realized climate science was the antithesis of the scientific method, that's when I stopped believing.

If climate scientists were engineers, buildings and bridges would be collapsing all over the world. Why AGW is collapsing, and why it will continue to collapse.

[Edited by: ministorage at 8/20/2014 6:31:55 AM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2014 3:02:22 PM

Funny story.
I was looking at an intro to physics book (ISBN 978-0-07-351220-4) and guess what.
Chapter 1 page 2, they were pushing AGW. Then by page 5 they were talking about the scientific method.
Guess if they went over scientific method first then people might ask too many questions....
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2014 2:33:59 AM

QUOTE ::::;Is Algore in Scotland?

Every place he goes to tout manmade global warming experiences some of the coldest weather in history!

So much for summer: Snow set to blast Scotland as forecasters warn of 'coldest August spell in a century' ::::::


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


In less than 2 weeks we close out August. As of yet not a single hot day for the summer of 2014. Not one. This is unprecedented as far as I can recall. Hottest day was 88, once, one day. There is clearly no global warming going on. What with the easy summer here and now the ice age in Scotland.

I'm uneasy though. Since the summer is uncannily cool, will the winter be brutally cold? Are we on the cusp of global cooling?





[Edited by: Hemond at 8/19/2014 2:34:52 AM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2014 12:52:46 AM



Is Algore in Scotland?

Every place he goes to tout manmade global warming experiences some of the coldest weather in history!

ROTFL

So much for summer: Snow set to blast Scotland as forecasters warn of 'coldest August spell in a century'

"Bitter Arctic winds could plunge parts of Britain into the coldest spell of August weather for almost a century.
Thermometers are set to plummet as a stubborn band of low pressure drags air in from the north - with two weeks of wet, windy and cold weather on the horizon.
There is even a chance of snow and sleet over the mountains of Scotland as it dips to near freezing overnight.
Government figures show the last time it was this cold in August was in 1919 when the mercury rose no higher than 8.9C for four days in Yorkshire and Cumbria."

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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 5:04:45 PM

Noted climate scientist S. Fred Singer writes a very tidy summation:

Climate Science Does Not Support IPCC Conclusions

Singer addresses Global Average Surface Temperature (GAST), Sea Level Rise (SLR), Climate Sensitivity (CS). Regarding SLR, Singer concludes:
"In my opinion, there is nothing we can do about this natural rise, which will continue until the next Ice Age -- when sea level will drop as ice accumulates in the Polar Regions and on glaciers. Meanwhile, we should follow the Dutch example: relax and build dikes."
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 10:47:47 PM

Nice link that Helmond - It kind of puts things in perspective doesnt it.

Reminds me of when your ship is sinking and your drowning dont bother to dry your hands....
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 10:41:25 PM

QUOTE :::::btc: " It is our contribution that makes the difference. "::::


The fallacy of this statement has been pointed out on this board how many times now? Human contribution to the greenhouse gas effect is insignificant. - So vanishingly small as to be nearly unmeasurable.

Link here

[Edited by: Hemond at 8/12/2014 10:42:05 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 3:08:06 PM

WES03,

True, but also convinced human activity is contributing.

We are part of the ecosystem, thus what we do affects it.
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WES03
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 2:51:17 PM

SemiS - Which is a total straw man argument because nobody here has tried to say that global warming does NOT occur naturally.

Thus you would agree that it could be happening naturally today?
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 2:51:13 PM

btc: " It is our contribution that makes the difference. "


So by that logic if it's getting warmer naturally, that's no problem for the world, but if any of that warming is man made, or should I be honest and say capitalism made, then that specific tenth of a degree or whatever it might be, is the particular tenth of degree that will melt the glaciers, strand the polar bears on little chunks of ice, cause massive hurricanes for George Bush to be able to steer, and cause the homicide rate to go up in Chicago.


mudtoe
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btc1
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 2:09:56 PM

But, the natural warming of the climate has been sped up by the advent of madmade sources of greenhouse gases. It is our contribution that makes the difference.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 10:58:12 AM

WES03: "But it does prove that global warming can occur naturally. "

Which is a total straw man argument because nobody here has tried to say that global warming does NOT occur naturally.
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WES03
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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 9:43:46 AM

SemiS - --Which in no way proves that current warming is not.

But it does prove that global warming can occur naturally.
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