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Author Topic: Thats it folks - Al Gore is all wet - we in for the ice age Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 1:19:22 PM

Shades of 1970 - here we go again.
.
.
>>>Better start investing in some warm clothes because German scientists are predicting that the Earth will cool over the next century.

German scientists found that two naturally occurring cycles will combine to lower global temperatures during the 21st century, eventually dropping to levels corresponding with the “little ice age” of 1870.

“Due to the de Vries cycle, the global temperature will drop until 2100 to a value corresponding to the ‘little ice age’ of 1870,” write German scientists Horst-Joachim Luedecke and Carl-Otto Weiss of the European Institute for Climate and Energy.

Researchers used historical temperature data and data from cave stalagmites to show a 200-year solar cycle, called the de Vries cycle.<<<

So we need to drill for more energy to keep us warm. Will anyone ever admit that trying to predict global weather patterns is futile.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 12:30:55 PM

"We must exterminate the beaver to save the planet."

I do my part, I always shoot beavers on site.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 10:30:20 AM

>>"Beavers are contributing to climate change, adding an estimated 800 million kg of methane to the atmosphere every year, scientists have found."<<

We must exterminate the beaver to save the planet.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:52:40 AM

A1 - you might be interested to know that the worlds largest single source for biologic methane gas just happens to be termite toots.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:40:40 AM

"Is that why GM decided to kill Pontiac?"

Finally, justice...better late than never.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:28:05 AM

"You may have heard of the chief of the Ottawa tribe that ordered the genocide. His name was Pontiac."

Is that why GM decided to kill Pontiac? <<rimshot>>

[Edited by: SE3.5 at 12/17/2014 9:29:02 AM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2014 9:18:29 AM



Oh this is RICH!

ROTFL

And just remember, methane is 23 TIMES as potent a 'greenhouse gas' as carbon dioxide!!

Climate change: Beavers boost emissions with 800 million kg of methane every year

"Beavers are contributing to climate change, adding an estimated 800 million kg of methane to the atmosphere every year, scientists have found."

ROTFL

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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2014 1:16:48 PM

::::::I see nobody else thinks earthworms and honeybees should be eliminate from north America.:::::


It doesn't matter what humans think. Anyone who worships Mother Gaia , which includes all environmentalists by definition, must abide by her game plan. Those who interfere with nature will lose.

The wholesale importation of alien species is a losing proposition. Ask any homeowner in Florida whose house is smoothered in Kudzu. Or ask Florida officials whose waterways are full of Burmese pythons.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2014 11:43:09 AM

SemiSteve - "I see nobody else thinks earthworms and honeybees should be eliminate from north America."

Yes, mankind often makes great improvements to what nature provides.

SemiSteve - "Humans (advanced animals themselves) have great audacity to decide what nature intended."

Which is an excellent description of the CAGW movement.

[Edited by: ldheinz at 12/14/2014 11:44:54 AM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2014 9:49:21 AM



SemiSteve, "I see nobody else thinks earthworms and honeybees should be eliminate from north America."

Nor should humans be eliminated like some of you Malthusians wish.

"Humans (advanced animals themselves) have great audacity to decide what nature intended."

And liberal socialist Malthusians have the GREATEST audacity to decide what nature intended and they want to kill NINETY PERCENT of humans because only THEY know what nature wants.

The silliness of liberals is beyond silly.



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 12/14/2014 9:50:18 AM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2014 8:40:01 AM

I see nobody else thinks earthworms and honeybees should be eliminate from north America.

Humans (advanced animals themselves) have great audacity to decide what nature intended.

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 12/14/2014 8:42:05 AM EST]
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2014 7:36:48 AM

"Honey bees did not originate in Europe, research has determined they originated in Africa and migrated to Europe."

As did humans.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2014 11:51:07 AM

Honey bees did not originate in Europe, research has determined they originated in Africa and migrated to Europe.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2014 10:11:31 AM

WES03 I dont think he really loves them a whole lot. The first problem is ti takes so doggone many to fill the frying pan and then they really dont taste all that good. They are OK if your really really hungry - but surely you can find something better.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2014 7:35:51 AM

SemiS probably loves European starlings also.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 4:38:58 PM



EZExit, "I had read about that. That few if any earthworms infested Minnesota."

Actually we have a lot of earthworms in Minnesota.

Since we have such a biological diversity from open prairies to northern coniferous forests, there is a lot of difference.

In the open areas and also the hardwood areas, we have a lot of earthworms.

I could not believe it when I first heard maybe 20 years ago that earthworms were not native here.

And that the DNR was trying to come up with ways to prevent earthworms being transported to northern forests.

So apparently SemiSteve loves non-native species that HE approves of.

Like illegal aliens!

ROTFL

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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 12:52:38 PM

ldheinz - "an entire Native American tribe was surrounded and starved to death by its enemies. The name of the tribe? The Illinois."

A minor addition - You may have heard of the chief of the Ottawa tribe that ordered the genocide. His name was Pontiac.
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 11:12:21 AM

SemiSteve - "Monsanto is an invasive species which was not in North America either. "

Wrong. Monsanto is native to North America. It was founded here and belongs here.

[Edited by: ldheinz at 12/12/2014 11:12:39 AM EST]
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 10:10:02 AM

QUOTE SemiSteve ::::Our economy would be impacted negatively if earthworms and honeybees were lost. And our food availability would be greatly diminished.
::::


How ever did North America get along for millions of years without earthworms and European honeybees. They were artficially introduced during the last 200 years. Mother Gaia knows best, that's why she didn't place them here. They belong in their natural habitat - Europe.

Its never wise to fool Mother. Don't fight Gaia, she doesn't want worms here. If Monsanto could figure out a way to kill these creatures, it would be environmentally prudent. In harmony with nature.

Worship Gaia - kill worms and bees.


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Hemond
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 10:01:49 AM

Here in Minnesota there is actually action to prevent earthworm transport to northern forests where they supposedly harm the native species.


I had read about that. That few if any earthworms infested Minnesota.

Most environmental nitwits don't realize that these critters, the very symbol of ecology action, are invasive pests. Monsanto would do Mother Gaia a great service by inventing an insecticide to kill these invaders.

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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 9:57:50 AM

"It would be better for the environment if MOnsanto could invent a toxin to kill these invasive pests. " [earthworms]

Just exactly how is unclear. Care to explain?

What 'damage' is caused by earthworms?

They are beneficial to healthy soil.

And fishermen can use them as bait.

Producing earthworms for bait is a big industry.

Our economy would be impacted negatively if earthworms and honeybees were lost. And our food availability would be greatly diminished.

Does anyone else here advocate for the elimination of earthworms or honeybees?

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 12/12/2014 9:59:34 AM EST]
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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 9:07:02 AM

ldheinz said: "an entire Native American tribe was surrounded and starved to death by its enemies. The name of the tribe? The Illinois."

Reminds me of the Torture Tree in Western New York. Those Senecas make our current Islamists look like Mother Teresa:

"The two were taken to a large oak tree, today called the Torture Tree and stripped naked. They were then whipped until their backs were covered with welts and bruises. Next the nails were pulled from each finger and toe. They cut off their right ears, then their noses, then their tongues. Their right eyes were gouged from their sockets, and left hanging. They mutilated their genitals until they were attached to their bodies by only foot long strands of flesh. In spite of these inhuman and revolting tortures, the design was to keep the victims alive and conscious as long as possible.

The final acts of cruelty came when the two men had their abdomens cut open and their intestines cut from the stomach. The severed end was fastened to the tree and the men were driven around the tree, their intestines being pulled out as they went. Their hearts were ripped from their chests and, and they were finally beheaded. Boyd's head was placed on a spear and used to lead a dance around the tree."
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 8:22:16 AM

Earthworms and honey bees are both invasive to North America.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2014 8:09:41 AM

Monsanto is an invasive species which was not in North America either.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:47:47 PM



SemiSteve, " the quality of the 'soil' in those fields (which is reduced to sand with some artificial chemicals in it "

You show how much you know about farming.

SMH

You cannot 'reduce dirt to sand' no matter what you do to it.

SMH

And Hemond, you are absolutely right on!

And once again SemiSteve 'the Farmer' shows how little he knows about farming.

SMH

Here in Minnesota there is actually action to prevent earthworm transport to northern forests where they supposedly harm the native species.
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Hemond
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:25:06 PM

QUOTE SemiSteve ::::Healthy soil contains earthworms and microbes, none of which are found in the dead zones of Monsanto killing fields.::::


Earthworms are an invasive species. They are aliens to N. America. THey are European imports. They do not belong here. Mother Gaia never intended for earthworms to be part of the local environment.

They work against the natural ecology of N. America. It would be better for the environment if MOnsanto could invent a toxin to kill these invasive pests.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 8:31:13 PM



wbacon, "Where is algore? #wheresalgore"

Speaking to an auditorium only half full at the UN Climate Summit in Peru!
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 8:25:17 PM



ldheinz, "So don't assume that North America was a peaceful, idyllic place before the Europeans arrived."

Exactly.

The liberal mantra is that before white man came to America, this was a Garden of Eden where peace reigned.

In truth, it was a constant battleground of warring tribes.

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wbacon
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 6:00:18 PM

Where is algore? #wheresalgore
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 5:49:31 PM

flyboyUT - "Before the white folks came to North America there were estimates of around 15 million folks here at the time. They were in a constant state of warfare with their neighbors to the point that in many Indian languages the word for stranger and enemy is the same word. Is that what you wish to go back to Steve? I dont! "

In north central Illinois there is a wonderful place along the Illinois River called Starved Rock State Park. It has beautiful hiking trails, impressive rock features, and all sorts of entertaining things to do. (It's only a few miles from I-80 if you're headed cross-country.) The park's name comes from a large rock that rises steeply from the terrain, where an entire Native American tribe was surrounded and starved to death by its enemies. The name of the tribe? The Illinois. When I explain that, it's almost universal that people assume that US troops (or at least European) were responsible. But that's not the case. The intentional genocide was by another tribe as an act of vengeance. So don't assume that North America was a peaceful, idyllic place before the Europeans arrived.

The world is a much more peaceful place now than it was centuries ago.
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I75at7AM
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 5:26:28 PM

>>>I'd love to hear the explanation as to what caused the glaciers to retreat 12,000 years ago--the end of the last ice age.<<<

Maybe the first caveman/Neanderthal with a bent for productive enterprise was born........the rest, as they say, is history!
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 5:20:09 PM

Steve you have been reading way too much of that treehugger propaganda these days. What you need to do is to actually go out and do some farming.

The primary reason that more pollutants are getting into the gulf is not from GMO technology - its from the stupid rules the treehuggers that mandated ethanol in fuel and caused farmers to expand the acreage of corn to huge levels. That is only one source of the pollutants. As others have said GMO is a tool that can be used to solve some problems. Its a tool Steve not some kind of evil thing.

Before the white folks came to North America there were estimates of around 15 million folks here at the time. They were in a constant state of warfare with their neighbors to the point that in many Indian languages the word for stranger and enemy is the same word. Is that what you wish to go back to Steve? I dont!

Neither do I wish to go back to a population level of my childhood and the technology of that time period. I like what we have now. The air is cleaner and the water is cleaner and there is more and better food for more people to eat and the medical skills and tools are far superior. Life is much better now than the 1940's and I chose what we have now.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 4:43:55 PM



SemiSteve, "But the problem with that is when that point is reached many are forced to go without, due to distribution / affordability issues."

Which is exactly what you want!

You want us to get down to 300 million people in the WORLD!

With all the fertilizer of your Stalinesque purged bodies rotting, the earth will never be more fertile and so many fields will produce BUMPER crops we can have MORE thank 6 billion people.

ROTFL

When are you going to be the FIRST in line to step off this earthly plane to help your fellow human beings?

Or is it that you just don't care about others?

Hmmmmmmmmmm?



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 12/11/2014 4:45:28 PM EST]
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 4:28:34 PM

SemiSteve - "But the problem with that is when that point is reached many are forced to go without, due to distribution / affordability issues."

That's just supposition. When people have less, they reproduce less. So far, the only times we've had to go without have been because of drought or war, not overpopulation, so we don't have any examples of what you are describing. And since it hasn't happened, it's not on any sane person's priority list.

SemiSteve - "If we just took control over our own destiny "

But what you are suggesting is that we should all give up all control over our own destiny to a few autocrats who will decide everything for us without our having any say in things. IOW, tyranny.

SemiSteve - "and limited births to affect a desirable population level "

And who decides what that level is? You? Pol Pot? And how are those births to be limited? How much totalitarian government will be required to ensure that people don't do what every organism in existence HAS to do to avoid extinction?

SemiSteve - "there would be ample resources for virtually everyone; and pollution would be much easier to deal with."

But according to you, those resources would be restricted to only those people that are in positions of power in your new society. And you'd have many fewer scientists to solve problems, so you'd actually have more problems, not less.

Again, your arguments have been fully countered by Julian Simon, who showed that there are NEVER any shortages of natural resources that we can't work around. The more people we have, the more people are working on finding more of the resources and/or alternatives for them. So there already ARE "ample resources for virtually everyone", without the need for a totalitarian dictatorship that murders 90% of the population in the name of humanity, like you advise.

SemiSteve - "Things such as the dead zone off the mouth of the Mississippi River caused by run-off from over chemicalized fields"

But with the latest GMO varieties of plants, you don't even NEED herbicides at all, as no light reaches the ground for weeds to grow. Have you actually looked at a cornfield lately? The plants are immense, and they're only 6 inches apart, so it's impossible to enter the cornfield at all. Humans can't fit between the plants. Soybeans are the same way; the fields are so dense it looks like mounds of lichens from a distance. And the plants are now being changed to get their nitrogen directly from the air so they don't need fertilizer either. See? We just need more people to do the research and development, and we can support vastly more people than we have now! Won't it be wonderful?!
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 12:08:58 PM

idh: " Most people believe that population stops increasing when resources diminish, which is what we observe in the real world."

But the problem with that is when that point is reached many are forced to go without, due to distribution / affordability issues.

If we just took control over our own destiny and limited births to affect a desirable population level there would be ample resources for virtually everyone; and pollution would be much easier to deal with.

fly, before you go touting the wonders of technology being able to produce more corn per acre, there needs to be a discussion of the repercussions of that technology. Things such as the dead zone off the mouth of the Mississippi River caused by run-off from over chemicalized fields, the GMO questions, the quality of the 'soil' in those fields (which is reduced to sand with some artificial chemicals in it - a far cry from healthy soil nurtured by no-till farming and crop rotation). Healthy soil contains earthworms and microbes, none of which are found in the dead zones of Monsanto killing fields.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:53:30 AM



WES03, "I'd love to hear the explanation as to what caused the glaciers to retreat 12,000 years ago--the end of the last ice age."

We KNOW it is due to capitalism~!

How do we know?

The liberals told us so.

And liberals are SOOOOOO much better and brighter and smarter than any of the rest of us.

If you don't believe it, just ask a liberal.

SMH

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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:32:42 AM

Steve this is kind of interesting - "The belief that a finite world can support an infinite number of humans is preposterous." As an absolute statement it is true. There must exist somewhere a number of people that the earth can no longer support. However we have not found that number yet.

The "learned ones" have been saying that the population is unsuprotable for hundreds and hundreds of years now. I remember gong to speeches/lectures by Paul Erlich. I thought he was nuts then adn I think the new Erlich's are nuts now.

Yes given no changes in technology at all there is a finite number of folks who can live well. But technology - as someone pointed out - fueled by the dollars generated by capitalist greedy evil people seem to be continously raising the number of folks living well.

If we froze technology at say the 1785 point in time our country could not support 100 million much less 300 million plus provide food, fuel adn a good life to many of the rest of the world.

But Steve your painting a static picture of a constantly evolving world. Maybe one of the best examples I can think of is US oil production. How many times have the doomsday sayers whined about 'peak oil'. Yet we find and use more - to make life better for ever more people.

Heck Steve look at another minor thing that represents the whole picture. What is the yield of corn per acre now as compared to say 1785... Is there a difference and what caused it?
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:24:40 AM

Quoted by SemiSteve - "The thing that causes climate change is capitalism!""

That's actually very correct, but not in the way you believe. The climate change movement dates to the fall of the Soviet Union. When leftists around the world saw their power waning, they invented the entirely fraudulent "global warming" scare to attempt to regain some of that power. It worked for a while, but it is finally being revealed as the fraud that it is. It was ALWAYS just a way for leftists to gain political power, and the quoted statement is simply an admission of that. The CAGW movement is just an attack on the morality of Capitalism.

SemiSteve - "The real cause is failure to deal with over-population."

So more of your Malthusian nonsense again? How many times does it have to be proven false for you to catch on?

SemiSteve - "The belief that a finite world can support an infinite number of humans is preposterous."

Which is why nobody but you and your compatriots ever says it. Most people believe that population stops increasing when resources diminish, which is what we observe in the real world. But when an idea might lead to you taking power that you do not deserve, you don't really care if it's true, right?

SemiSteve - We would not be having this discussion if we had capped the world population a long time ago. "

Well, people like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and others have tried, but people don't typically like being exterminated, and tend to resist.

SemiSteve - But that would require humans to be able to coordinate. And we are far too barbaric to do that."

You mean that people need to give you the power to kill them. That is the leftist ideal, after all, right?
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:21:30 AM

"The real cause is failure to deal with over-population."

Are you going to lead the way to solving that problem? Yeah, I didn't think so.

What about the people who are so spoiled and over-indulgent they consume resources that could support 20 or 30 people?

The tale of two houses
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 11:09:26 AM

"I'd love to hear the explanation as to what caused the glaciers to retreat 12,000 years ago--the end of the last ice age."

It was those evil capitalists in their caves and huts, don't you know!

A couple of questions that will clarify the issue:

Who brought the world SAFE nuclear power, communists or capitalists?

Who created the technology that made solar panels and wind turbines possible, communists or capitalists?

Who is creating and implementing the technologies that make burning coal cleaner, turning coal into clean-burning gas, and turning already-clean natural gas into even cleaner liquid fuels, communists or capitalists?
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 4:06:31 AM

"We are dancing all around the issue. The thing that causes climate change is capitalism!"

I'd love to hear the explanation as to what caused the glaciers to retreat 12,000 years ago--the end of the last ice age.
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AnotherOne
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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 2:11:55 AM



SemiSteve, "The real cause is failure to deal with over-population.

The belief that a finite world can support an infinite number of humans is preposterous."

Once again what is PREPOSTEROUS is your false contention.

It seems that SemiSteve is once again allying himself with the violent socialists who say that they want to get rid of OVER 90% of the world's population!

Why are you so violent, SemiSteve?

Will YOU volunteer to be part of the 90% who are MURDERED so that the rest of us can live in peace and prosperity and abundance?

If you are not willing to kill yourself, WHY aren't you? Why are you so selfish?

SMH

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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 2:08:38 AM



SemiSteve, ""We are dancing all around the issue. The thing that causes climate change is capitalism!""

Ahhh yes, your fellow socialists and communists are starting to come out in the open about why they have been pushing "global warming/climate change".

They pushed the wonders of communism and the evils of capitalism for 8 decades.

Then Communism IMPLODED and it was exposed to the world as the EVIL empire and system that it really was.

And socialists and Communists went back under the rocks from which they crawled out.

But they wanted desperately to continue to push their evil agendas.

So in the early '90s, after the collapse of Communism, they came up with the LIE of global warming to further their agenda.

Now that global warming has been exposed as a LIE also, they are desperate and now they are coming out and saying what they have wanted all along ... the destruction of capitalism.

Why do you support something so evil, SemiSteve?

SMH

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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 11:30:52 PM

Heard a tidbit from the Climate Summit in Lima.

Didn't get who spoke but the quote was: (essentially)

"We are dancing all around the issue. The thing that causes climate change is capitalism!"

I thought about that for a while and decided it is a poignant point.

But that still falls short.

The real cause is failure to deal with over-population.

The belief that a finite world can support an infinite number of humans is preposterous.

We would not be having this discussion if we had capped the world population a long time ago.

But that would require humans to be able to coordinate.

And we are far too barbaric to do that.

Just look at this forum.

We can't even exchange views without insults, personal attacks, bickering, etc.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 9:13:09 PM



flyboy, Remember back when Reagan said EXACTLY that?

That a lot of the 'pollution' came from trees themselves.

And the libs did their usual arrogant thing.

They guffawed loudly and long and over and over used it to say that Reagan was stupid.

There were some of us who at the time said that "pollutants" do come from certain trees. And we were held up to ridicule by the know it all liberals.

Ummmmmmm....

It was true then.

And it is true today.

And libs today are still too arrogant to realize how truly STUPID they are! Libs must be the "Americans" that Gruber was talking about.



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 12/10/2014 9:13:40 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 7:09:07 PM

Anybody here ever hear of the "Great Smokey Mountains" They are back east - just ask that country singer Dolly something or other. The reason they got that name - long before the place was settled by white folks by the way - was the naturally occurring smog from the turpines and other phytoactive chemicals exuded by all the trees on the hills.

The EPA is going completely around the bend IMO.

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 12/10/2014 7:09:36 PM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 6:19:04 PM

Cut down all the trees to save the environment? That sounds like the EPA, alright.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 5:49:04 PM

New Ozone Rules have Enormous Costs, Few Benefits

From the article:

"Even Jackson Hole and Teton County, Wyoming could be out of compliance, mostly due to emissions from pine trees."

So Jackson Hole may be required to cut down nearby forests because of those pesky, polluting trees.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 12:30:47 AM

"even Jay Leno could do a better job."

Agreed.
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ColoradoPapa
Champion Author Colorado

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2014 9:29:44 PM

He does better as a talk show host. I'll vote for that instead of him as a leader of a country.

Hell, even Jay Leno could do a better job.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2014 7:57:20 PM

Obama has an agenda and will use every trick and lie to achieve it.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2014 8:21:24 PM

"Obama's China Deal Backfires."

China Blocks Carbon Review Sought by U.S. at UN Talks
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