Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    8:00 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: US politics > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Obama Care® is not freedom. Its anti American. Back to Topics
theTower

Champion Author
Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 8:59:38 AM

Liberal entitlement-state dream is crumbling

"Here's what else I don't want: As a 60-something, relatively healthy person, I don't want lactation and maternity services, abortion services, speech therapy, mammograms, fertility treatments or Viagra. I don't want it. So why should I have to tear up my existing health-care plan, and then buy a plan with far more expensive premiums and deductibles, and with services I don't need or want?Why? Because Team Obama says I have to. And that's not much of a reason. It's not freedom.Fortunately, NBC News pulled the plug this past week on President Barack Obama's promise that "if you like your own plan, you can keep it." Ditto for keeping your own doctor. The plug was pulled because NBC learned that Team Obama knew—for three years—that stiff new regulations would prevent the Grandfathering of existing health-care plans. And not just a few plans. But plans that could affect as many as 15 million individuals.
The day after that bombshell hit, the president tried to blame insurers rather than regulatory overkill for this Obama Care® shortfall. Yet both the public and the mainstream media were having none of it. In what may turn out to be a landmark moment, Americans and the media at large have turned against the president and Obama Care®.
(Incidentally, equally punitive regulations will hit more than 90 million employer-sponsored health plans next year. It's the same problem as the individual plan. Grandfathering won't work. Moreover, replacing these plans with much more expensive products will constitute a major tax hike on the entire economy. This point shouldn't be lost as Americans worry about being kicked from their plans. Obama Care® is not only anti-freedom but anti-growth."

So when the employer mandate kicks in and millions upon millions of people are either kicked off of their plans or forced to pay more and it starts to affect more mainstream Americans and pounds on the fragile economy, will the people unite and stop this debacle before its too late?
Or will they continue to sit back and say:
"Well its not my insurance that's been affected, nor any of my friends and family so I am going to just sit on my hands and do nothing"
If you wait until Obama Care® comes for you, it will be too late.
The bums that created this mess must be voted out. Obama is out in 2016 by default. Congress must be purged in 2014 and 2016 of the Obama Care® architects and this Obama Care® must be eradicated before we wind up with an American version of the NHS..
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 6, 2013 11:22:30 AM

"And thank you theTower for stating what I was about to. Only the elite already have immediate access to 'the best.'"

I was talking about laws already on the books, not specifically health care.

[Edited by: theTower at 11/6/2013 11:25:51 AM EST]
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 6, 2013 11:15:08 AM

ss: "Your two statements are mutually exclusive. If (a) is true then (b) can not be true. And if (b) is true then (a) was not true."


You really need a lesson in either science or reading comprehension. (a) and (b) were at different points in time. Doh!!


mudtoe
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 6, 2013 10:29:36 AM

mudtoe: (a) "Net result: Before single payer most people had access to the best health care on the planet."

--That is abosultely false. How could most people have the best? Sounds like this version of 'the best' seems to include most doctors. How could most doctors be the best? What definition of 'the best' is being used in this statement??? It is disingenuous to take 80% of something and call it 'the best'...

(b) "After single payer: only the wealthy have access to the best health care on the planet."

--This is such an abasurd statement. Because guess what. That is true already.

Are not the same doctors from the same US schools with the same training in which most of them were just called 'the best' [in (a)] going to be administering health care within the new system? Then how is it possible for them to be accessible for most people before the law change but then these same (what? 80% of them?) doctors are now only serving the elite?

Your two statements are mutually exclusive. If (a) is true then (b) can not be true. And if (b) is true then (a) was not true.

I submit that (a) was not true. Most can not be the best. And (b) is misleading because, as theTower says of "When those in charge of government are granted special privileges and exemptions from the laws that they create for the rest of society": "Thats already occurring."

And thank you theTower for stating what I was about to. Only the elite already have immediate access to 'the best.' And those in charge of the government (the super-rich power-junkies) have that access because they have unlimited money. When their lives are at stake suddenly that money becomes no object at all. They are going to make sure they use the best if their checkbooks have anything to do with it.

We average people can't do that. We have to go with whatever our insurance policy allows. And if you think Obamacare is going to introduce a bunch of less qualified doctors for holders of new policies then I challenge you to show something to back that unsupported accusation up.
Profile Pic
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:74,207
Points:3,080,645
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Nov 6, 2013 9:26:27 AM

I'm for "single payer" as long as the person paying is the person receiving the medical care !! All others please step away from the trough.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 6, 2013 9:19:50 AM

"When those in charge of government are granted special privileges and exemptions from the laws that they create for the rest of society"

Thats already occurring.
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 4:00:18 PM

Tower: "The wealthy elitist liberals who wish to impose single payer would exempt themselves from its horrible care. Single payer health care is an ultimate expression of "Do as I say Not as I Do" liberalism mentality."



You can bet that if the left succeeds and Obamacare does destroy the insurance companies, that Congress and the Executive Branch, and probably the Supreme Court Justices too so that they aren't tempted to strike down the law, will have special perks and/or exemptions so that they don't have to wait in line or have to be told to take a pain pill.

This is exactly how the old Soviet Union was run. Those in the Central Committee and Presidium had access to special food, special housing, special healthcare, special everything, paid for by the state, which made a mockery of their claim that their salary wasn't any different that a factory worker's. They basically lived like landed gentry, and those at the very top like royalty, in all but name. It's ironic, and quite predictable, that once they had absolute power they started living exactly like those they claimed to despise, and whom they overthrew. I guess they didn't really despise those they overthrew, but rather the emotion was jealousy and envy.

When those in charge of government are granted special privileges and exemptions from the laws that they create for the rest of society, it won't be long before the relationship between the government and the people changes from government existing to serve the people to people existing to serve the government.

mudtoe


[Edited by: mudtoe at 11/5/2013 4:06:45 PM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 2:35:33 PM

The wealthy elitist liberals who wish to impose single payer would exempt themselves from its horrible care.
Single payer health care is an ultimate expression of "Do as I say Not as I Do" liberalism mentality.
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 1:52:56 PM

SS: "Single Payer IS the ultimate equitable solution."

How it works: Look to Britain and Canada for the kind of healthcare you will receive if you are poor or middle income, and hope you don't die before it's your turn. If you are wealthy you go pay cash for immediate treatment by the best doctors and private hospitals on the planet.

Net result: Before single payer most people had access to the best health care on the planet. After single payer: only the wealthy have access to the best health care on the planet.


If a conservative had proposed a system where it was setup such that only the wealthy had access to the best care, they would have been tarred and feathered by the left.


mudtoe

Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 1:24:07 PM

The thing that so many want to ignore is that we as a nation are not a very healthy people. We are overweight, out-of-shape and we over-eat non-nutritious foods. Our infants die at childbirth and we don't live as long as those in other industrialized nations.

Health care is paid for by insurance. Just like home-owners insurance, the more claims there are, the higher the rates. Just ask anybody in Florida after the hurricanes of '04.

If we, as a nation, did things which resulted in fewer of us getting predictable diseases such as diabetes, lung cancer and heart disease there would be fewer health insurance claims and the rates would be lower.

The thing that elludes too many is that it is better to take care of yourself than it is to rely on health insurance. It should be for the unforeseen. Not a reason to let yourself go.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 12:38:21 PM

"Cut the insurance racket outta the pic."

And put the mismanagement and rationing of government in charge?
Thats more anti-freedom and anti-American than Obama Care®
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 11:34:03 AM

Single Payer IS the ultimate equitable solution.

Libs want universal government run health care.

Cons want profit-oriented doctors.

So that's it.

Cut the insurance racket outta the pic.

98% of medicare expenses go to actual health care.

The for-profit insurance racket made a deal so they only have to spend 80% while keeping the rest of themselves and their rich-beyond-belief executives. And THAT only after being forced by law to spend THAT much on actual health care. Back in the lawless free-for-all days they kept even MORE for themselves. Explains why one of the highest paid executives is CEO of an insurance company.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 11:26:16 AM

"force Democrats to abandon single-payer."

While that would be nice to believe unfortunately Democrats haven't abandoned single payer.
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 8:32:53 AM

"The answer to high health care costs is to get government out of health care, and get insurance companies out of paying for regular doctor visits.
With today's super-high deductibles, essentially nothing small is covered anyway, the consumer pays for it all, we simply need to cut out the bureaucracy that has carved a fat slice out of the middle of the healthcare industry."

--That would be the corporate bureaucracy brought to you by big greedy insert-themselves-into-every-transaction-with-their-hand-out insurance companies; which, unlike the Republican Party, WERE strong enough to force Democrats to abandon single-payer.
Profile Pic
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:74,207
Points:3,080,645
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 8:13:23 AM

Semi: "Brought to you by the same people who could only denigrate but could never seem to come up with a better idea to fix overly expensive and unobtainable for those who really need it health care."

Exactly. High health care costs, and the resultant high health insurance costs, are caused mainly by government regulations, rules, and malpractice insurance premiums *which are resultant of out-of-scale jury awards).
Brought to you by intrusive liberal do-gooder people.

The answer to high health care costs is to get government out of health care, and get insurance companies out of paying for regular doctor visits.
With today's super-high deductibles, essentially nothing small is covered anyway, the consumer pays for it all, we simply need to cut out the bureaucracy that has carved a fat slice out of the middle of the healthcare industry.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 11/5/2013 8:13:30 AM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 7:59:29 AM

Rationalize it all you want.
Bottom line is millions were lied to and are losing their insurance courtesy of Obama Care.
Claiming that Obama Care will be better for everyone ignores the simple fact that we are all different and are capable of deciding what's best for ourselves.
And when grandfathering won't accept millions more who are on group plans and those people begin to lose their coverage and are forced to the exchanges will the amount of people matter to obobbleheads then?
How many people does a lie have to affect before they become relevant?
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 7:34:39 AM

"The plug was pulled because NBC learned that Team Obama knew—for three years—that stiff new regulations would prevent the Grandfathering of existing health-care plans. And not just a few plans. But plans that could affect as many as 15 million individuals."

--15 million. In a nation of 310 million. Why, that is almost five percent! (but not quite)

And how many are now going to be getting access to health care who were unable to get it before?

Over double that number?

Can we say good trade-off?

But wait. Don't shake your head yet.

A lot of those who claim they want to keep their plan got their plan AFTER Obamacare came into law! How can they keep something they DIDN'T HAVE???
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 7:23:28 AM

"the best doctors"

" no co-pays, the most thorough exams I have ever experienced, same day appointments if required, and 24/7 phone access to my doctor. "

--We don't want much, do we?

Does anybody see a problem with trying to deliver heath care to an entire nation using 'the best doctors?' If everybody gets 'the best' then who gets 'the rest?' And if only 'the best' are to be utilized then how do 'the rest' get any work?

Obviously, such a concept as expecting 'the best' for everyone is unrealistic. Bizarre Obama-hater dream-world stuff.

Brought to you by the same people who could only denigrate but could never seem to come up with a better idea to fix overly expensive and unobtainable for those who really need it health care. Guess none of them were locked out and sentenced to death by pre-existing conditions...
Profile Pic
SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:19,558
Points:449,385
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 7:12:01 AM

"Single-payer will be the eventual result in the United States."

--Oh darn.

Well? If we must we must.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 6:54:14 AM

"The bottom line is -- is that we are making the insurance market better for everybody and that's right thing to do," POTUS Obama.

Oh the arrogance.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 4, 2013 1:17:45 AM

You also can't keep your doctor.

Why is it that Obama Care supporters insist that government making and limiting choices for you is a better way to live?

[Edited by: theTower at 11/4/2013 1:20:42 AM EST]
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 4, 2013 1:12:51 AM

panama: "mudtoe, medical tourism is already growing rapidly - punishing doctors that practice capitalism will make the industry boom."


My neighbor is an anesthesiologist and I've heard that he's looking into that kind of stuff.


mudtoe
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 4, 2013 12:42:16 AM

"The best doctors will be cash only"

That's really going to lower the quality of care for the majority. Another casualty of Obama Care.
I suppose that wasn't a promise made by Obama though.
Americans may all have access to insurance, but we still won't have access to the best care.
You can bet the people who forced Obama Care on us I'm sure will still have their access to the finest care our tax money can buy for them though.
Why else would they exempt themselves from the law.
Yet people go right on supporting them and Obama Care.
Profile Pic
Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

Posts:30,766
Points:3,177,035
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 11:56:52 PM


mudtoe, medical tourism is already growing rapidly - punishing doctors that practice capitalism will make the industry boom.

Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 11:19:58 PM

panama: "The alternative that is already taking place here is concierge service in which one pays one's doctor a retainer and receives thorough medical care for whatever Medicare pays."


Yes, all of these sorts of market driven things will start happening until government does something to try to punish doctors who participate in capitalism instead of socialism. At that point the best treatment for stuff like cancer, heart disease, knees, etc., will end up overseas and out of reach of government's grubby socialist paws.


mudtoe
Profile Pic
Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

Posts:30,766
Points:3,177,035
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 11:16:57 PM


mudtoe, "The best doctors will be cash only doctors who will cater to the wealthy, even if that means they have to do it from someplace like the Caribbean. The not the best doctors will see Obamacare and Medicare/Medicaid patients on the assembly line where each patient gets about 5 minutes with the doctor"

The alternative that is already taking place here is concierge service in which one pays one's doctor a retainer and receives thorough medical care for whatever Medicare pays. Mine has no co-pays, the most thorough exams I have ever experienced, same day appointments if required, and 24/7 phone access to my doctor.

The advantages of the free market system!

Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 11:01:09 PM

tower: "Another thing to consider is if enough people become dependent on government for their insurance, the doctors may not have a choice but to see Obama Care® patients if they want any kind of an income.
It will be the only game in town."


True. The best doctors will be cash only doctors who will cater to the wealthy, even if that means they have to do it from someplace like the Caribbean. The not the best doctors will see Obamacare and Medicare/Medicaid patients on the assembly line where each patient gets about 5 minutes with the doctor. The number of people entering medical school will drop because the job prospects aren't so good anymore. Net result: If you are wealthy and willing to pay cash you will still have access to the best healthcare on the planet. If you aren't wealthy, then get in line and hope you don't die before it's your turn.


mudtoe
Profile Pic
therder
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:3,706
Points:2,241,995
Joined:Feb 2007
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 5:56:50 PM

Mudtoe:>>That's no surprise, although I'll bet she got a whole bunch of phone calls from her democrat buddies telling her to shut her mouth, as this isn't the right time to say it. My thought is that the coercion will eventually be done at the federal level rather than the state level, because if it's done at the state level, doctors will just start leaving that state in droves. I'm thinking that once enough doctors drop Medicare/Medicaid patients and don't start accepting Obamacare patients, the feds will try to compel them, either through attaching strings to the student loans that nearly all doctors have to take out in order to get through medical school, or via the FDA by denying doctors who don't obey the authority to prescribe drugs, which is regulated at the federal level.<<

The ultimate objective may be similar to what France has now. Every medical practitioner there is basically a government contractor. Single-payer will be the eventual result in the United States. I think that has been the ultimate goal from the start.
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 4:55:22 PM

"the feds will try to compel them,"

Another thing to consider is if enough people become dependent on government for their insurance, the doctors may not have a choice but to see Obama Care® patients if they want any kind of an income.
It will be the only game in town.
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 11:49:52 AM

Daurel: "But here is Kathleen Murphy, Democrat running for the House of Delegates against Barbara Comstock, telling a forum in Great Falls that she believes it should law to force doctors to accept Medicare and Medicaid patients. "


That's no surprise, although I'll bet she got a whole bunch of phone calls from her democrat buddies telling her to shut her mouth, as this isn't the right time to say it. My thought is that the coercion will eventually be done at the federal level rather than the state level, because if it's done at the state level, doctors will just start leaving that state in droves. I'm thinking that once enough doctors drop Medicare/Medicaid patients and don't start accepting Obamacare patients, the feds will try to compel them, either through attaching strings to the student loans that nearly all doctors have to take out in order to get through medical school, or via the FDA by denying doctors who don't obey the authority to prescribe drugs, which is regulated at the federal level.


mudtoe
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 10:22:53 AM

"*****Sorry I cant figure out how to get past my anti virus blocker to post the short link"

Need to use tinyurl
Making over a billion long URLs usable! Serving billions of redirects per month.
Profile Pic
Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

Posts:341
Points:37,310
Joined:Jul 2011
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 9:56:40 AM

Virginia Democrat Calls For Forcing Doctors To Accept Medicare And Medicaid Patients

You would think that when your party is burying a hole that is getting harder and harder to get out of, you wouldn't want to that hole get deeper faster. But here is Kathleen Murphy, Democrat running for the House of Delegates against Barbara Comstock, telling a forum in Great Falls that she believes it should law to force doctors to accept Medicare and Medicaid patients. Forced by government decree, mind you. A birdie sent me thi
*****http://masonconservative.typepad.com/the_mason_conservative/2013/11/text deleted
*****Sorry I cant figure out how to get past my anti virus blocker to post the short link

[Edited by: Daurel at 11/3/2013 9:58:26 AM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 7:23:30 AM

"instead of demanding more government intervention and involvement, smart citizens will demand just the opposite"

Will there be enough though.
If the smart citizen is demanding a reversal, what will the dumb citizen be demanding?
Profile Pic
mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:8,089
Points:1,584,375
Joined:Feb 2010
Message Posted: Nov 3, 2013 4:20:46 AM

"The bums that created this mess must be voted out. Obama is out in 2016 by default. Congress must be purged in 2014 and 2016 of the Obama Care® architects and this Obama Care® must be eradicated before we wind up with an American version of the NHS.. "

I pledge to do my part to vote them out. No problem.
Profile Pic
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:74,207
Points:3,080,645
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 11:46:26 PM

Great topic, Tower. And judging by the liberal rancor here I'd say you have struck a nerve. If I were keeping score, and I am, it was 11-0 before this post.

Treating citizens as if they are wards of the state is truly unamerican.
But some people just don't care.

If it is the ultimate goal of federalizing (socializing) the entire medical industry, the fundamental transformation of this nation will not go according to plan.
When the health insurance industry collapses (Cloward and Piven strategy), instead of demanding more government intervention and involvement, smart citizens will demand just the opposite.

GET GOVERNMENT OUT OF MY HEALTH CARE!!!!!
Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 11:14:36 PM

mm: "But what if you don’t get a tax refund????"


Good question. My understanding is that the law says that the IRS can't go after your bank account or confiscate your property to pay the fine. However, there is a loophole. Let's say your penalty for not buying health insurance is $2,500, you get no refund, and you pay all your income tax except for the $2,500 penalty, or so you think. All the IRS has to do is "deem" that the first $2,500 of your withholding for the year (or first $2,500 of estimated payments you made if you you don't get a paycheck and have tax withheld) was used to pay the no health insurance fine and that the last $2,500 that you still owe is really the last $2,500 of your income tax and not the health care penalty. Therefore they can confiscate that $2,500 from your bank account or by putting a lien on your property. Easy as pie.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 11/2/2013 11:18:40 PM EST]
Profile Pic
mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

Posts:27,369
Points:1,889,320
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 10:11:19 PM

You can not bleed a turnip.

As it stands now, the individuals who don’t obtain health coverage in a given year (and are not exempt from the mandate) are subject to a fine of $95 for an individual or 1% of family income, whichever is greater. In 2015, the penalty increases to $325 per adult, or 2% of family income, whichever is greater.

How exactly will the penalty be assessed? If you don’t have sufficient health coverage by the deadline, the “IRS will hold back the amount of the fee from any future tax refunds,” according to HealthCare.gov, the government’s marketplace website.

But what if you don’t get a tax refund????

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do you see the nightmare.....? THis is going to be a nightmare...They will have to hire an army to go get the folks who do not pay a penalty because they have no tax return. WHO planned this?
Profile Pic
e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:4,800
Points:140,690
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 9:06:44 PM

Even Pelosi can't weasel out of this

Obama can postpone, massage, change, exempt, etc all he wants...

... the new mandated plans were handed down starting in July and the dumbocrats can't put that genie back in the bottle!

They will cheer when the site works -- FINALLY we succeeded they will proclaim!

Now people will know the actual price and the revolt against liberals kicks into high gear.

These elitist dopes legislated their own demise -- who woulda thunk?
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 7:46:27 PM

"The rest CHOOSE not to buy it. "

Now you will have to pay a fine.
However I suspect we haven't even seen the start of fine waivers that will emerge.
Profile Pic
therder
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:3,706
Points:2,241,995
Joined:Feb 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 5:56:47 PM

40 million people don't have insurance now. Only a small fraction don't have it because of some pre-existing condition. The rest CHOOSE not to buy it. The CBO estimates 30 million will continue to be uninsured even with Obamacare. So when they get sick, they will go to the emergency room. Don't forget at least 11 million illegals that will also continue to go to the emergency room.
So let's review:
1.ObamaCare will be good for America.
2.You can keep your family doctor.
3.Premiums will be lowered by $2500.
4.You can keep your current healthcare plan.
5.Just shop around, for that healthcare I claimed you wouldn't lose.
6.No one making less than $250,000 will see their taxes raised one dime.

Those 6 lies speak for themselves don't you think?

[Edited by: therder at 11/2/2013 5:58:51 PM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 5:49:55 PM

"Every scum bag Democrat who voted for this back-door communism scheme shall be humiliated at the polls."

While that would be nice, and helpful to our country, its not going to happen. Especially in districts with lifers like Nancy Pelosi.
Voters in those kinds of districts are whats hurting the country the most
Profile Pic
e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:4,800
Points:140,690
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 2:58:25 PM

Every scum bag Democrat who voted for this back-door communism scheme shall be humiliated at the polls.

This is almost certain as people vote according to pocketbook pain. The individual plan owners are being heard loud and clear right now so guess what happens before the election in 2014? The employer pain kicks in and multiplies the outrage 10 fold!

Democrats can't unwind the damage they created, it is law, and they are trapped under the weight of the law. GOOD!

All Demoncrat promises for the next decade will fall on deaf ears of the public -- unless you are the 20% liberal population that wants a communist based society

(move elsewhere)

Profile Pic
mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:14,051
Points:1,914,385
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 12:35:27 PM

One of it's main purposes is the socialist mantra, wealth redistribution, on several levels. On one level it's a wealth redistribution from the young to the old because the young are forced to buy a level of insurance most don't want or don't need, and to pay a premium for that level insurance all out of proportion to the risk involved that that they will need medical care. On another level it's a wealth transfer from the wealthy to the less wealthy as they have to pay the full premium, part of the price of which is used to pay for the subsides less wealthy people are getting. Lastly, it's wealth redistribution from those who are working to those who aren't as great numbers of those who are signing up are signing up for Medicaid, which is entirely paid for by someone else. This is socialism on a level never seen before in this country.

Ironically, the ones who are ending up with the best medical coverage are the people who don't work. Think about it. If you are middle class and earn about $90,000 a year, which isn't a lot if you live on either coast, you have to pay the full cost of your insurance. For a family this can now be $10,000 a year or more, even for the lower end required plans. Those lower cost plans come with deductibles of $5,000 - $10,000 a year and another $5,000 or so out of pocket after that. With expenses like that, on top of what you are already paying in premiums, you probably have to forego routine medical care and wellness stuff, and only go to the doctor or emergency room if you absolutely have no choice. You no longer have a choice because you can't afford anything better. Now compare that to someone doesn't work and who signed up for Medicaid. They can go to the doctor or emergency room if they have a hangnail and pay nothing! My oh my how things have changed! If you work, you are forced to accept second rate health insurance, but if you don't work, you get the premium plan.

Obama was right when he said he was out to transform society. This is one campaign promise he actually kept!


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 11/2/2013 12:39:34 PM EST]
Profile Pic
theTower
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:15,623
Points:596,715
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 12:17:41 PM

Delaying the employer mandate was calculated
Profile Pic
AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

Posts:31,560
Points:3,488,120
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Nov 2, 2013 11:15:40 AM

I agree. ObamaCare has destroyed a lot of health care plans, affordable ones, that worked for a whole lot of people. I predict that ObamaCare will ultimately INCREASE the number of people without health insurance, as the plans that worked, but don't meet the "bronze standard" will be cancelled. ObamaCare has taken choice in the free market away.
Post a reply Back to Topics