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Author Topic: Why the ObamaCare Crash is so Embarrassing for Liberals Back to Topics
teacher_tim

Champion Author
Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 25, 2013 12:54:36 PM

A belief in science and technology is as central to liberalism as spiritual faith is on the right. That’s not to say that there aren’t lots of religious liberals, but just that the devotion to “progress” is the central aim of the political movement for more than a century.

How crushing, then, that the most liberal president of all time would oversee the most notable technological failure by the federal government, perhaps ever. The disastrous launch of the Web site and telephone banks for President Obama’s new health-insurance entitlement program is laughable at best, terrifying at worst and no matter what, astonishingly incompetent.

Obama, whose campaigns were praised endlessly for tech savvy and who revels in being the first high-tech president, has overseen a massive tech botch. This understandably infuriates liberals who plumped for their president and his law on the grounds that government was up to the task and that Obama could deliver a brighter, sleeker, faster and more affordable future for health care. As it turned out, he couldn’t even oversee a Web launch.
********************
We are still at the point where it would be far cheaper and easier to simply provide direct subsidies, via tax credits, to the relatively narrow demographic band of those folks who want insurance but can’t afford it because of pre-existing conditions. The demolition of the current system is underway but of all the alternatives to the president’s plan on offer, a bigger, more centralized plan would hardly be the frontrunner.

It becomes increasingly clear that Team Obama returned to ramming speed and proceeded with launch even when the boys from IT said that they were heading for disaster. One assumes that it was anger at Republican efforts to retard the law that drove the president’s men to jump forward. The fact that the White House so blithely addressed the possibility of delaying the individual mandate suggests that the launch was more politics than practicality.

Obama is, as usual, in reaction mode, talking about a “tech surge” and the like. But the damage done to his program and the Democratic claim that government is a credible custodian of more Americans’ health insurance is already obvious. And it’s going to get worse."

The only question that remains is "How much worse, and for how long" before it's "fixed" or scrapped?
link to source
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 11:44:11 AM

We're up to daily altering the laws to suit. I honestly won't be surprised if they push the deadline past the first of January, and mandate the insurance companies to retroactively institute their respective policies.
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 5:57:05 AM

It was supposed to work perfectly! all of theses smart guys from the slicon valley who support obama
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 24, 2013 1:17:15 AM

So isn't this Medicaid asset seizure really a death tax on low income people?
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 11:16:28 PM

mini: "The catch (it is a big one): The Medicaid Estate Recovery Act has not been updated, and there seems to be nobody who knows if it will be. "


I was reading about that the other day. There are going to be a whole lot of peoples' heirs that are going to be in for one hell of a surprise when the state confiscates the assets, perhaps decades after the decedent last utilized Medicaid health services.


mudtoe
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 10:14:29 PM

urban_dweller said: "Btc's cheerleader pompoms are looking very frayed and faded."

Not to worry. btc1 is confident that Obozo has a plan that will work!
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 6:48:02 PM

"Sounds like ObamaCare is "spreading the wealth" from low income earners after their death and giving it to the treasury!"

Not just the dead, but the living. If you're 55 or older, own a home and sell it, you're subject to asset seizure under Medicaid rules. Some have wrongly stated that that is only for LTC patients. Nope. Anyone on Medicaid is subject to asset seizure. So, under Obamacare (ACA), if you make less than $16K/yr, you're NOT allowed to participate in the exchanges and their discounts, and you're forced into Medicaid (ACA has removed the asset qualification rule).

BUT the asset seizure provision is STILL left in place!

I'm sure many low-income earners would rather pay $50/mo. for the cheapest plan available if it meant not being subject to asset seizure provisions under Medicaid rules.

The easiest fix it seems, would be to let the under-employed (<$16K /yr.) who own a home and have a modest savings, to simply be allowed access into the exchanges.

Under the ACA rules now, they are barred from the exchanges and are being forced into Medicaid--and are subject to asset seizure by the government. I would hope this gets fixed.

-----------------------------

Also, in my post below, a revision: "$650-900/yr." I meant per month.

[Edited by: ministorage at 12/23/2013 6:57:19 PM EST]
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 6:22:33 PM

gocatgo, "The Obamacare crash is far less embarrassing than the 40 votes to defund it."

So voting to defund a "train wreck" program is more embarrassing than insisiting on continuing to push a program that pushes more people off of their insurance (that they liked) than people that sign up for insurance?
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 6:19:51 PM

Sounds like ObamaCare is "spreading the wealth" from low income earners after their death and giving it to the treasury!
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 6:09:14 PM

ejeepin "Medicaid recipients are just now finding out that they already surrendered all personal property and assets to the govt."

Even liberals are wondering what's up with the asset provisions set up under Medicaid Estate Recovery Act

Under the new ObamaCare rules, those over 55, who made less than $16,000/yr. for whatever reason, unemployed, but ready and willing to find a new job (or may be injured or ill) are not allowed in the exchanges if their incomes fall below ~$16,000/yr., and have three options--go on Medicaid under the new ACA asset waiver, pay the $650-900/yr. private premiums, or pay the $90 penalty and go without insurance.

ACA drops the $2400 asset ceiling for Medicaid and allows the unemployed/under-employed making <$16,000/yr. income into Medicaid (which is now their only real option). Most would swallow their pride and take Medicaid, even if they're thinking it'll be temporary till they get back on their feet.

The catch (it is a big one): The Medicaid Estate Recovery Act has not been updated, and there seems to be nobody who knows if it will be.

So, something that was set up for the indigent, is now being forced onto people because of their income alone, the indigent assets portion is waived, to get them into the Medicaid program (again, they do NOT qualify for the exchanges if their income is $16,000 or less), so they're virtually forced into Medicaid.

And then, the kicker is exactly what you said--provisions in the law as written--and unchanged--allows the government to seize your assets, not just upon death, but even if you sell your home--the government gets first lien status.

In the link above, some liberals are very concerned. While some apologists use disparaging remarks such as "teabagger scare story", etc., clearly, now this is hitting home for some liberals--they're not as trusting of their government as one would think. It seems most around here just assume all is well. But unless the Medicaid people and the ACA get this hammered-out and get the Medicaid Estate Recovery Act amended, the new class of forced-Medicaid recipients will be subject to having their assets seized, either after their death, or upon the sale of property.

IOW, if this doesn't get fixed, it looks like Medicaid for some will be self-insurance financed, government loan. Medicaid was designed for the indigent, and has provisions in it to seize personal assets in exchange for picking up the tab. It looks like we're looking at a new class of government forced indigents through this health care law.

If I were a thinking liberal over 55 making less than $16,000, and had some assets, such as a home and a small or large savings--being embarrassed about ObamaCare would be my least concern. Government seizure of my assets would the bigger concern. It's a travesty the ACA does not allow anyone under $16k /yr. income to participate in the exchanges.

[Edited by: ministorage at 12/23/2013 6:18:01 PM EST]
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 8:38:39 AM



"The Obamacare crash is far less embarrassing than the 40 votes to defund it."

LOL, only to political geeks like us; the general public is becoming increasingly disillusioned with it and wondering if the 40 votes might not have been on the right track.

37.8 approve - 53% disapprove = RCP avg through 12/19
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 23, 2013 12:51:56 AM

They don't have any idea how to repair this so they are attempting to put out a prairie fire with a wisk broom.

Major glitch in their "pathway to single payer" -- They couldn't even manage the building of the path!

Medicaid recipients are just now finding out that they already surrendered all personal property and assets to the govt.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 12:29:06 PM

Another question, 280,000 Kentuckians have lost their health care insurance (you know, those people that wanted to keep it, but couldn't). That is 6.4% of Kentucky's population, If 2.2% is "highly popular", almost three times that number of people that are now uninsured, does this make it "highly failed", times 3?

I can see how ObamaCare© is not embarrassing for liberals, their comprehension of the big picture doesn't exist.

[Edited by: EZExit at 12/22/2013 12:30:47 PM EST]
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urban_dweller
Champion Author Orlando

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 12:22:52 PM

Btc's cheerleader pompoms are looking very frayed and faded.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 12:16:45 PM

Btc: <<<"Well it is working in Kentucky - kynect is highly popular!">>>

--3/4 of them signed up for entitlements! 96,968 of 4.38 million Kentuckians, or 2.2% of the population, has signed up. If 2.2% of the population is "highly popular", what does this say about the 65% of Kentuckians that don't approve of ObamaCare©?

Kentucky exchange isn’t a smoldering wreck, but Kentuckians still hate Obamacare
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 11:32:19 AM

gocat: "The Obamacare crash is far less embarrassing than the 40 votes to defund it."


Just ask the people who believed Obozo when he said if they liked their policy and doctor they could keep them, and who now are uninsured because their policy was cancelled and they can't afford a Bozo policy that costs twice as much and comes with a new feature called the five digit deductible.


mudtoe
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 11:29:42 AM



gocatgo, "The Obamacare crash is far less embarrassing than the 40 votes to defund it."

What is even MORE embarrassing is the 60 Democrat votes to pass ObamaCare with NOT ONE REPUBLICAN.

Democrats TOTALLY own the ObamaCare disaster.

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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 11:19:13 AM

The Obamacare crash is far less embarrassing than the 40 votes to defund it.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 7:10:04 AM

btc1 said: "Well it is working in Kentucky - kynect is highly popular!"

Isn't that what you liberals were saying about ObozoCare when the website first came online in October? Your excuse for its failure was that SOOOOOO MANY people were clamoring to get "affordable" health care that the system just couldn't handle the load. So, if that had been true, now that the website is "supposedly" functioning better now, Obozo should be coming out with the figures of the BILLIONS of people enrolled in ObozoCare now, shouldn't he? Yeah, I know the population of the U.S. is around 320 million, but Obozo probably gets a lot of his information from Nancy Pelosi. Oh...that's a good one for maryanneusa's "stupid quotes" thread, isn't it?? I'm on my way there now..
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 7:01:20 AM

airfresh said: Take a look at the pic

So...

...what's the problem here? Both are equally bad for Americans! I think those bags are labelled appropriately!
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urban_dweller
Champion Author Orlando

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 4:49:54 AM

Btc's MSLSD link says 96,968 ppl have signed up and that 40% of them are under 35 years of age, soooo thats roughly 39,000 ppl, right Btc?

Then at the bottom of that article, it's finally mentioned that 75% of the new enrollees (72,285) are signing up for Medicaid!!!!

So explain it to us, Btc, how are all those young ppl going to support the older folks in Kentucky, if they're on the dole, too?bwaaahaaaahaaa

Rotflol

Smh

USA, 1776-2012, RIP
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 4:23:45 AM

Maybe we really needed a big marxist power grab like obama TO FINALLY WAKE UP ENOUGH PEOPLE THAT WE NEED TO RETURN TO THE LIMITS OF THE US CONSTITUTION
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2013 2:58:30 AM

Well it is working in Kentucky - kynect is highly popular!
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 11:11:37 AM

Here's an embarrassing development. There was a pretty large heroin bust here locally very close to where I live. No I wasn't involved. ;)

Take a look at the pic

[Edited by: airfresh at 12/21/2013 11:12:36 AM EST]
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 8:10:52 AM

I saw on the news last night, nearly 2 million people signed a petition to support Phil Robertson in just 2 days, where only 300,000 signed up for obamacare in 3 months.

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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 7:24:42 AM

Liberals on this board wanted desperately to blame the failed roll-out of ObozoCare on the fact that so many red states didn't set up their own exchanges, so placed extra burden on the Federal Healthcare.gov disaster of a website.

Now it appears that even those who did set up their own exchanges are having troubles and are wanting to abandon that effort.

ObozoCare is just simply REEKING, isn't it?

[Edited by: jeskibuff at 12/21/2013 7:24:42 AM EST]
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2013 7:15:47 AM

"I don't think Steve has ever kept it secret that he thinks that Obamacare is a compromise solution that, while it is not as good as true universal coverage, is better than doing nothing about the healthcare system...."

That is the typical liberal mentality, "Do something!" It doesn't matter if it makes things worse, the actions of doing something is enough, results do not matter!

By the way, if the government ran "universal healthcare" like they are running ObamaCare, a lot more peoples lives (like those currently losing their health insurance) will be lost.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2013 3:45:25 PM

Obama Lifts Health Mandate for Those With Canceled Plans

“This latest rule change could cause significant instability in the marketplace and lead to further confusion and disruption for consumers,” Karen Ignagni, the president of America’s Health Insurance Plans, the industry’s Washington-based lobbying group, said in an e-mail from a spokesman. "
"President Barack Obama has been issuing a flurry of last-minute policy changes to give people more time to sign up for his signature domestic policy initiative following a botched rollout of key programs, delays of others and political backlash over the cost and effects of the law. "

This article mentions that this is a policy... but isn't it really a law? Why is congress not getting involved in making all these changes...???
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2013 8:39:36 AM

Stevie would you prefer a single payer to what we have now?
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2013 8:18:34 AM

I have to post this from SUV's thread about the Jay Lenno sho comment that Leno made:

Leno led with a new twist on an old theme:

•Former President George W. Bush is on the show tonight. We're very excited about that. As you know, his nickname is 43 because he was the 43rd president. President Obama is nicknamed 44 because that's how many people have signed up for Obamacare.
thanks SUV
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2013 1:04:31 AM


AnotherOne, "And then they will become dangerous"

And THEN???

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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 9:53:29 PM

... "there are indeed numerous times you have indicated that the government knows best for all of our needs and desires... "

--Um how should I put this? One word comes to mind.

No.

I have never said that. What you get is a total exagerration of what I have said. I have said that I would like government run health care. That is a far cry from (and I quote) "all of our needs and desires".

It never ceases to amaze me what some of you guys read into what I post.

Numerous times?

Don't make me laugh.

I have never said your exagerration ONCE!

Seriously, man.

Get real.

I say one thing you read another.

You get an F for comprehension.

F for Ficticious!
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2013 3:40:35 PM


If the Democrats and libs think it is bad for them now, they better hang on.

This is going to be one bumpy ride.

Second wave of health plan cancellations looms - ONE HUNDRED MILLION

Watch for Obama and the Dems to sink even lower.

And then they will become dangerous.

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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 6:50:30 PM

Steve: <<<"--Totally bogus. I have never said such a thing.">>>

--Technically, I have never seen you write that "exactly" word for word, but there are indeed numerous times you have indicated that the government knows best for all of our needs and desires... May of us would disagree.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 6:07:20 PM

"I don't think Steve has ever kept it secret that he thinks that Obamacare is a compromise solution that, while it is not as good as true universal coverage, is better than doing nothing about the healthcare system."

ministorage: "Steve has been very upfront that in his vision for an idyllic world, he would want it completely controlled by a (fictictious) uncorrupted, beneficent central government."

--Totally bogus. I have never said such a thing.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2013 11:39:57 AM

I75, Expecting another poster to read over 300 pages before making a response is not what I call 'being real.' But you are entitled to your own version of 'being real.' I just doubt you'll get many people at all to read that much material before making a reply.

"You vilify H.R. 2300 and claim it will raise taxes, blah blah, but in reality it allows people to purchase health insurance with pre-tax dollars and also pay for health expenses not covered by insurance with pre-tax HSA dollars. Both of these market-based reforms will lead to real efficiency and a lowering of costs, and that is what can save our health care system. Lowering costs. "

--Nope. Didn't say it would raise taxes. I'm wondering, actually just whose post you were responding to. What part of this is where I said it would raise taxes: "It appears that the plan in HR 2300 would reduce taxes on individuals..."?

No. What I said is that it spends federal money and doesn't put it back. It is a debt-raiser. (From a Republican, of all sources, amazingly enough. Imagine that.)

If I understand the bill correctly from the summaries I read it cuts taxes which cuts revenue but it doesn't creat any new revenue stream or cut spending to match. Amazing that Republicans who claim to be all about the debt (now that Obama is in office but not during Bush as we all recall) are actually putting bills like this forward. But I guess it is easy for the bill to live in a dream world since everybody knows it is DOA anyway.

***

jeskibuff: "SemiSteve said: "I-75 you have linked hundreds of pages of reading in your post. Do you really expect anyone to read all of that in order to respond?"

Well, looky there! Isn't that the same "let's just pass it...why bother to read it?" mentality that got us into this mess in the first place?"

--Hardly. Big difference is that in this case it is the Republicans who want to see this unread thing passed. I saw enough of it to know it is nothing but another exercise in the futile 'repeal Obamacare' train of DOA bills.

These Tea Party unrealists are only placating themselves with such wastes of time as yet another bill to repeal Obamacare.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 11:51:57 AM

jd, remember when they called us all liars that this was going to happen. That the government is incapable of efficiently running anything? That there were rules in the law that were going to cost people their insurance and prices were going to rise? It is because our sources did read the law...seems the Democrats did not. They just voted for it because they were told to!
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 11:41:11 AM

some dems are still so drunk on koolaid, they don't know about the problems yet on obamacare
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 11:01:38 AM

A1...they all need to make sure they are marching lock-in-step. Of course slowly they are losing support of some Democrats that are up for re-election and have tied their political careers to ObamaCare based on lies from the White House.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 11:00:17 AM

"I don't think it's as much a lie as it is a totally clueless assessment of the disaster we've just seen unfold."

You have gotten that exactly right. For some reason the Democrat/liberals around here think that doing the wrong thing just to do something is the right thing. It shows how far from reality they fall. That they will do anything for that almighty vote regardless of what harm it brings to the people of this country.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 7:48:31 AM

sgm4law said: "Obamacare is a compromise solution that, while it is not as good as true universal coverage, is better than doing nothing about the healthcare system."

...to which AnotherOne said: "Well, we have sure seem what a lie that is in the last few days, haven't we?"

I don't think it's as much a lie as it is a totally clueless assessment of the disaster we've just seen unfold.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 4:04:15 AM

Remember this is all a Republican plot to discredit Obama, because he is the first black president, whit the help of the all powerful Fox News Network.
But remember Fox is only an issue when the libs need a scapegoat because no one listens to it.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 1:16:16 AM


CNN'S TAPPER: NO DEMS WILL TALK TO US AFTER OBAMACARE NUMBERS

"On CNN’s The Lead, host Jake Tapper said that Democrats had refused to come on the program to discuss the abysmal Obamacare enrollment numbers released on Wednesday afternoon."

This is absolutely hilarious to watch the panic and desperation that Obama and the Dems are in.

Could not have happened to nicer people.

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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2013 1:14:10 AM

REID TO KEEP QUIET UNTIL RECEIVING WH ORDERS

"On Wednesday, after the Obama administration released the abysmal enrollment numbers for the health insurance exchanges, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced that he would issue no comment until he had spoken with President Obama."

ROTFL

The arrogant Dems are getting it handed to them big time.

Now if we could just get Reid to keep quiet. PERIOD!

[Edited by: AnotherOne at 11/16/2013 1:16:19 AM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 8:49:48 PM


johnnyg "What brain dead moron wrote this disaste"

And now it comes out that the two people in the White House who were most responsible for this disaster of a bill have refused to testify before Congress.

I hope that Congress subpoenas them and drags them up to testify.

And if they refuse, maybe they can think about it in a 6' x 8' private room.

OBAMACARE ARCHITECT REFUSES TO TESTIFY

It is sickening that Obama and his acolytes think they are above the law.

Maybe the full force of the law needs to be thrown at ALL of them.

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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 8:11:41 PM

If this law was so great, why is Obama having to change it?
He pushed the employer mandate back. He wants to change the date that older policies will become unacceptable. There is a push to change the medical device tax. He wants to change the way unions are treated under the law. People are having their premiums skyrocket or losing their insurance altogether. Others are losing their jobs or ending up with only part time work.

In order to get it passed deals had to be made with unions and in some cases deals were even attempted with entire states. The entire nation had to be lied to by the President himself. Maybe if they had read it before they voted for it these things wouldn’t be such a surprise. Maybe they did know but didnt think it mattered.

What brain dead moron wrote this disaster and what mental midgets voted for it? The answer to that would be only the democrats and the President.

What part of it did they get right?
The whole law should be embarrassing to the Democratic Party and President. Instead they are proud of this monster and will never admit they got it wrong. They will just keep trying to blame Republicans who predicted this. Well I do blame the Republicans for not digging in and stopping this because they were afraid of what the pole might say.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 6:16:03 PM

Obama is promising to veto the bill from the house, you know, the Upton bill, the one that states, "If you like your insurance, you can keep it. Period." Apparently Obama himself won't even listen to his own lies anymore.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 5:47:54 PM


"Obamacare is better than doing nothing about the healthcare system."

Well, we have sure seem what a lie that is in the last few days, haven't we?

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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 5:03:44 PM

And here I thought someone would challenge me about him being a sissy. ;)
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 4:54:50 PM

ministorage said: >The only two words I ever what to hear him say is - 'I resign'" That sissy couldn't be dragged out of the oral office kicking and screaming.<

I've got news for you...Slick Willie's been out for decades now.

...or did you mean the OVAL office? ;)

It's so easy to get these corrupt Dumbocratic presidents all mixed up, isn't it?

[Edited by: jeskibuff at 11/15/2013 4:55:52 PM EST]
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2013 4:36:18 PM

"I don't think Steve has ever kept it secret that he thinks that Obamacare is a compromise solution that, while it is not as good as true universal coverage, is better than doing nothing about the healthcare system."

Steve has been very upfront that in his vision for an idyllic world, he would want it completely controlled by a (fictictious) uncorrupted, beneficent central government.

(And I think most conservatives would actually agree that this train wreck foisted upon Americans is a what liberals consider a "compromise." Rolling my eyes.)

[Edited by: ministorage at 11/15/2013 4:37:51 PM EST]
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