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Author Topic: Should the United States Get Rid of the Electoral College? Back to Topics
mexicomaria

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Message Posted: Sep 3, 2013 2:44:38 PM

In 1876, 1888, and 2000 (in 1824 no candidate won a majority of electoral votes and the House selected John Quincy Adams, who had come in second in the popular vote), the electoral College has decided an election.

Pros and Cons to the Electoral College.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2013 12:26:54 AM

btc1 - why are you thinking this topic is only for conservatives. If you have something meaningful to contribute, contribute it (and in fairness, your comments after complaining about conservatives was meaningful and useful).

If we split all of the states proportionally in the electoral college, then that would approximate the popular vote more closely than with the present system. The problem with "popular vote" is that we would have to change the constitution to allow for it again. That's not to say that it can't be done, nor that it isn't the FAIREST system (everyone gets a vote that counts). It just may not be the easiest system to implement.
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2013 11:55:08 PM

" I still think the President should be by popular vote. It may have worked at the beginning of our country but now it should be the popular vote."

I agree with the above, but feel that there should be other structural changes as well. One would be to allow for the recall of representatives and senators as is the case at the state level. A second would be to have a level of government between that of the individual states and the federal government (the POTUS and VP should not be the only two officials whose legal scope of responsibility extend beyond one state or Congressional district.

A third would be a mechanism for direct voting by the public on some issues, bypassing or over-riding Congress.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2013 8:11:41 PM

I see this is a topic now for conservatives. I still think the President should be by popular vote. It may have worked at the beginning of our country but now it should be the popular vote.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2013 7:58:41 PM

AC-302. This has been a long standing argument, for many years it was cook county / chicago, I still like the idea of winner not getting all... for a state...
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2013 11:47:49 PM

"Should the United States Get Rid of the Electoral College?"

Depends. Is it in the SEC or the ACC?
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2013 8:10:23 PM

Reb - I beleive that the point I was trying to make is that the populations of the 6 counties in and around Chicago (Cook,Lake,Will,Grundy,DuPage and Kane) basically equal or outnumber the rest of the state. It ends up that, generally speaking, what Chicago wants, Chicago gets. Chicago just by itself is a bit less than 3 million. The whole state is, what? 12 Mil? That's about 25%. And that's clout.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2013 5:23:47 PM

The electoral college is outdated.
Elections should be decided by the popular vote.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2013 3:08:14 PM

Interesting view on a "slight" tweak... to the concept..

Here is an interesting proposal, have congress elect a president... (Intersting thought...)...



[Edited by: reb4 at 10/8/2013 3:10:44 PM EST]
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2013 8:46:46 PM

as for CHicago, Actually Illinois is going much more "blue" but the City has definitely dragged it that way...

I like the concept of districts...
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2013 10:03:41 PM

Look at Illinois? Chicagoland is king, and the rest of the state can "go to the devil" for all the Chicago Democrat machine cares.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2013 9:59:27 AM

It is just sad that a city like Philadelphia speaks for the rest of the state...period. Talk about having your vote not counted? That is what the electoral college does.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2013 2:40:09 PM

AFSNCO said: "I think we are both on the same page. You would have to group some of the smaller districts together based on population. But my point is that if you have the entire city of Philadelphia vote Democrat and then the rest of the state votes Republican...all those Republican "electoral college" votes are nullified if the city votes outnumber the rural vote. "

--Your absolutely right in that with only a discussion of the fine points, we are in VERY close agreement and near total harmony. And again, I think the districts are split based on the US congressional districts. Sometimes rural areas and city ones are split, but sometimes combined. It would just depend on populations and how the lines were drawn..
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2013 9:46:14 AM

AC, it is different in each state on how they decide their who their electors are and how it is broken down. It is a winner-takes-all kind of thing except in a few states...it was 2 or 3 if I recall but would have to look it up.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2013 9:42:23 AM

I think we are both on the same page. You would have to group some of the smaller districts together based on population. But my point is that if you have the entire city of Philadelphia vote Democrat and then the rest of the state votes Republican...all those Republican "electoral college" votes are nullified if the city votes outnumber the rural vote.

Basically we have gotten to a point where the cities are deciding the presidential elections because their votes will nullify all the rural votes. Democrats want to talk about disenfranchising a vote but that is exactly what is happening with the electoral college system. In California where the northern part is mainly conservative they never stand a chance of having their electoral college votes even count....or worse yet, going against what they believe in. It is true in PA and NY as well. Philadelphia tends to be liberal and Pittsburgh and western PA tend to be more conservative. New York, same thing...

I think with the increasing migration of people to suburbs and rural living it is time to look at the electoral college process again.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 20, 2013 1:21:44 AM

AFSNCO - I think that the way the EC works is that there is a rep or "seat" for every US Congressional district. I'm saying the delegates ought to be split proportionally to the vote. That's slightly different than district by district, though substantively the results should be the same.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2013 12:29:54 PM

Candidates would only campaign in the big states, depriving the rest the country of their views on the issues.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2013 11:06:28 AM

It doesn't except mine would be broken down to voting districts like we have for the House of Representatives. I just took it further.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2013 12:20:46 AM

AFSNCO - how does that vary from what I suggested?
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RangerBob58
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2013 7:44:48 PM

I think it works fine.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2013 2:17:49 PM

Maybe they should reconfigure the electoral college where a candidate doesn't get all the votes from a state but only for each district they win.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2013 8:09:28 AM

If we got rid of the Electoral College, laws would favor the large population areas. Politicians would not care what less populated areasa wanted.

Theoretically, a politician could promise (and deliver) special benefits for the coasts where most of the people live (in return for votes) that middle America would not get.

How would THAT be fair?

It would be similar to getting rid of the Senate (each state has equal representation) and only having the House of Representatives.

[Edited by: nstrdnvstr at 9/18/2013 8:10:56 AM EST]
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2013 6:30:45 AM

"Wonder if the elector college has a football team?"

With our education system in the shape its in, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there were kids who believe that.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 17, 2013 11:56:12 PM

With my idea of splitting the states proportionally, you'd be right - every vote would count - even the Reps here in in the Land of Fruits and Nuts would have at least some voice. Also, if we did that, we wouldn't be scrapping the electoral college. It would be somewhat easier to implement than direct elections. However, IMHO, the fraud-free direct election of Pres/VP should be something we strive for.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 17, 2013 11:46:22 AM

Wonder if the elector college has a football team?
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 16, 2013 2:09:17 PM

We need to not let the cities decide our presidency in the future.
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Primetime57
Champion Author Long Island

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Message Posted: Sep 16, 2013 11:03:32 AM

I say keep the EC unless a better idea is found.
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Sep 16, 2013 11:01:00 AM

I also like AC's idea Reb4.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Sep 16, 2013 9:49:43 AM

outdated & UN-nessassary
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 10:47:35 PM

yes
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citizen1
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 9:47:46 PM

It should be kept but I would support my state switching to the Nevada system.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 15, 2013 9:33:39 PM

Wonder what would happen if ac-302's concept was considered... wow, that would be an interesting concept..
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Sep 13, 2013 10:01:38 AM

Nope. Maybe we could annex California though.
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jayrad1957
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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2013 1:21:39 PM

"If people, say, conservatives in California, see the states in the east getting "called" for the liberal democrat candidate, they might feel that voting will be in vain."

The exact opposite has happened. I believe the 2004 election was called for Bush before the polls closed here in California. I remember reading voting went down the last hour or so polls were open for that reason.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2013 1:10:14 PM

One dynamic that could sway me to ending the Electoral College is indeed the phenomenon that street and reb4 just mentioned. If people, say, conservatives in California, see the states in the east getting "called" for the liberal democrat candidate, they might feel that voting will be in vain. (Of course, nothing could be further from the truth and people should vote for their state, county, and local candidates and issues always.)
But if a million California Conservatives skipped voting because they know that their vote for a conservative Republican (if there is one....) is "wasted" or futile, that would be entirely a different case if the Electoral College no longer existed. All votes would be equal. A vote in Utah for a Republican would have the same value as a vote in California for the same Republican. All the liberals in Utah and Idaho and all the conservatives in California and New York would have more impetus to vote.

Of course, then the battle nationwide would be about the sanctity of the voting process, and making sure than only properly qualified and registered people actually cast ballots, and cast a ballot only once and in one place.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 9, 2013 9:47:00 AM

Know quite a few people that don't bother voting because they believe the vote won't make a difference..

I on the other hand will not even vote for people I don't support even if there is no one running against them... One Republican county board person ran un-opposed and I voted for Mickey Mouse as a write in..
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streetrider
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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2013 8:45:37 PM

reb4
I can relate to the frustration, many years ago my wife and I was leaving our local voting place, we got in our truck turned on the radio and herd our state had already been decided, the polls were a solid 1/2 hour away from closing. This was before the computerized voting.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 8, 2013 7:40:28 PM

I think it would be something to consider. One thing that is frustrating is to hear that the state you are in is "decided". It would be great to have people not think their vote won't count if their state is not a "key" state.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2013 12:53:52 AM

One problem I see with the electoral college is that there are many states, most, in fact, where it's "winner take all" in terms of the state's electoral votes. What I mean by this is that Let's say California has about 55 votes. Out here, if "party A" wins by only 10,000 votes over "party B", then party A gets all 55 votes, and party B gets "the shaft". I would like to see the electoral college be split between the parties proporationally. That is to say, that Party A might get 28 votes, but party B got the other 27 in my example. That would BETTER approximate the actual turnout on a nationwide scale.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2013 12:25:36 AM

Ok
jayrad 1957

This could be a slippery slope? why? please explain?
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 12:25:24 PM

National Popular Vote Pact

Interesting material here.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 12:07:47 PM

"This could be a slippery slope."

What does that "slippery slope" look like to you Jay? What are your concerns?
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Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 12:00:52 PM

"Thank you Zim for the compliment....would I was the same as streetrider."

And by same difference, I of course meant on the same side of the political aisle.

Clearly you are one of a kind, :)

[Edited by: Zimcity at 9/5/2013 12:01:12 PM EST]
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 11:19:01 AM

"Further more are you saying the constitution has never been modified?"

Really?

No one has answered my question, what part of the Constitution does one find obsolete other than the EC that needs to be gotten rid of? This could be a slippery slope.
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 10:59:34 AM

zim....."'"mexicomaria: "I said this years ago, the electoral college is obsolete especially with modern day technology in communications."'

Actually that was streetrider, but same difference."

Thank you Zim for the compliment....would I was the same as streetrider.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 10:31:14 AM

jayrad1957

"I said this years ago, the electoral college is obsolete especially with modern day technology in communications."

"What other parts of the Constitution should we get rid of because some may think they are obsolete?"

Really you don't think news media and communication changed from the horse and buggy days.

Politicians still ride cross country on horse back door to door to get known.When the constitution was drawn up compared to today, the literacy rate of folks that could read and write (stayed the same)?

It will be done in the future because the people will demand it.

Further more are you saying the constitution has never been modified?

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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 10:11:08 AM

jayrad1957: "mini, it almost sounds as if you are suggesting because Democratic Party bigwigs are in favor of junking the EC, all Democrats will be in favor of doing so.

Newp.

jayrad1957: "If more GOP/Tea Party/Independent bigwigs were on board, would you be as well?

Those identifying themselves as Tea Party and Independents are not the Big Whigs; they are the antithesis of the establishment in the Republican Party. But I'm ambivalent about the EC, and have not formed an opinion.

I do find it interesting that since Levin's book came out, all of a sudden from the party that has championed the Constitution as a living, breathing document, now I'm reading comments questioning those from the other side who have suggested we make some changes to it. My bigger concern is that some on both sides of the aisle have been guilty of not adhering to what's already in it.

Don't miss your station stop."

Whut eva dude. ;-P

[Edited by: ministorage at 9/5/2013 10:14:31 AM EST]
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 10:03:31 AM

"Actually that was streetrider, but same difference."

Mea Culpa, mis amigos.

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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 9:52:29 AM

"Are you sure you're on the right train, conductor?"

mini, it almost sounds as if you are suggesting because Democratic Party bigwigs are in favor of junking the EC, all Democrats will be in favor of doing so. If more GOP/Tea Party/Independent bigwigs were on board, would you be as well?

Don't miss your station stop.
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 9:28:32 AM

"So, if a Democrat suggested Taco's idea--and said it is because it's an obsolete system and that some voters are being discriminated or ill-represented--I wonder if you would have still posed that question to Taco?"

mini, yes.
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Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2013 9:24:33 AM

"I think we need to keep the electoral college but make a change....give one vote to every congressional district..that way whoever takes the presidential vote in each district gets that electoral vote. Then give the final two to the person who gets the most votes in the state. If you look at a state like Illinois..Chicago is so one-sided democratic that their votes alone negate the rest of the states votes. If each district had their own vote to give then each district would become more important.

Thoughts?"

While initially I thought this might be a better system, it would almost create a mirror of the House, so every President elected would likely be from the same party as the majority in the House. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing.

Also, since Congressional Districts are apportioned to have a balance of each state's population, I don't think your Chicago example holds any water. In fact the IL delegation has 12 Dems and 6 Reps. It looks to me like 11 of Illinois' Reps come from Metro Chicago districts.



[Edited by: Zimcity at 9/5/2013 9:25:37 AM EST]
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