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Author Topic: If Obama had a city, it would be just like Detroit Back to Topics
Hemond

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Providence

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2013 4:19:03 PM

What was once the leading powerhouse city of America and the world is now reduced to the equivalent of Dresden or Hiroshima at the end of WW2.

The reality of contemporary Detroit is the logical endpoint of liberal/progressive policy. All the productive business and citizens chased out by taxes, and over-regulation. The city coffers and taxpaying residents sucked dry by municipal unions. The city educational system warehousing just long enough 'till a new crop of welfare mothers can breed. A dependancy class voting lockstep the party line-thereby ensuring a never ending cycle of despair.

Look at the wasteland ruin of Detroit and behold the future of America. Detroit is the first. It won't be the last.

REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 9:30:22 AM

"I guarantee that this concept was not stolen from any of your friends from the left!"

I'm just trying to figure out which movie he quoted from... 'Trading Places'?

This is why I am neither Left nor Right. Each side has good ideas, neither side has all of the right ideas nor knows how/when to implement them.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2013 12:30:42 PM

"They want someone else to bail them out you know,...".

Well, they could ask Trey Radel for some help in sales but I believe he has a deal and represents the Tea Party!

(But now that he is out of the Tea Closet, he may be open to a few new offers?)





[Edited by: Passer at 12/8/2013 12:30:28 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2013 3:42:55 PM

Weasel: <<<"What's this, a GOP'er stumping in Detroit?"

Some good ideas, wonder where he stole those from ;) >>>

--Yes, the old conservative argument that making an area attractive to business, business relocating there to save money, creating jobs, increasing tax flow, and additional revenue flow into the local economy, etc. I guarantee that this concept was not stolen from any of your friends from the left!

Don't worry though, Detroit will categorically reject any message such as this, and push for some manna from Washington. They want someone else to bail them out you know, they don't want any part of being part of the solution... ObamaCash© is king!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2013 3:34:31 PM

What's this, a GOP'er stumping in Detroit?

Some good ideas, wonder where he stole those from ;)
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 3:14:02 PM

"No, not Republicans. The Tea Party. There still is a difference..."

Some people have a hard time viewing the world in anything other than black-and-white (i.e. you must either hate Obama or idolize him)...
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 11:24:56 AM

"...he claimed that Republicans were "the party of Destruction, and tearing down".

No, not Republicans. The Tea Party. There still is a difference, but I will grant you, jeskibuff that the difference is shrinking every day. Soon it will be moot. Congratulations.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 9:59:55 AM

"Well, there was a time in America when you could trust your public officials. You could trust them to do what was expected of them, to follow the law including their own rules, and when you could expect them to act in the best interests of their political entity."

When?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 9:59:23 AM

LOL - let's go back to this quote one more time;

"It's unfortunate for you that each time you try one of these lame attempts at ridicule, you only lose more credibility."

And then review jeski's most recent post;

"Next time please DO come up with a response with a little substance. I can find absolutely NOTHING of worth in that last post of yours. All you're desperately trying to do is turn the tables around, but that didn't work out too well, did it?"

"Do you need a little bouncing red ball in order to keep up with the conversation?"

It would be funny if it weren't so sad... So much vitriol and anger.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 7:57:02 AM

>>How is that possible?<<

Well, there was a time in America when you could trust your public officials. You could trust them to do what was expected of them, to follow the law including their own rules, and when you could expect them to act in the best interests of their political entity.

It seems that trust was misplaced. Violated.

Hemond, you are right that the retirees who paid in their share should not get short-shafted now. Detroit should be forced to cover pensions first, including contributions to cover current workers when they retire.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 7:56:48 AM

Weaslespit,
Next time please DO come up with a response with a little substance. I can find absolutely NOTHING of worth in that last post of yours. All you're desperately trying to do is turn the tables around, but that didn't work out too well, did it?

You still have the umpteen failures of your hero Obozo staring you in the face, with nothing left for you to do except to try to change the subject. Pointing out some of the many instances of liberal failure is NOT mere ridicule...it is placing blame on those deserving blame.

My response was right on target to Passer's allegation...he claimed that Republicans were "the party of Destruction, and tearing down". I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of that statement. Do you need a little bouncing red ball in order to keep up with the conversation?
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 7:45:33 AM

In the ultimate double cross, Detroit unionized workers are having their pensions cut dramatically. Link here.


Whatever your opinion of municipal workers, the fact is they put in 35 or 40 years on the job to earn their pension. They dutifully put in their 8% or so over many decades to fund their pension as per contract. Then along comes the Democratic leadership to steal their pensions. Where is the money? Where was it invested?

The unions dutifully voted lockstep the Democratic party line in exchange for contract concessions. Now in old age they are left as bankrupt as Detroit. Plus no Social Security. You see the city exempts itself from having to pay SS for unionized workers. How is that possible?

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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2013 2:09:54 AM

WS, Don't get into a Tpeeing contest with a TPer as that is their only strength. When an anarchist drinks so much tea he has to TP somewhere. Ever notice that it is easier for them to shut down the government than to shut down their own mouths slandering others? Leave them alone and they will, like Trey Radel "Crack" up themselves. Trey is just a premature symbol of their future: and that "future" and all that they try to destroy will backfire and they, too, like Radel will go up in smoke. Let them snort that their fleece is as white as snow, maybe it is, until they sneeze. Then as Trey found out, the weasel dust starts flying.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 9:07:12 AM

"It's YOUR folly to suggest that I read your Nov 11 post immediately then took 18 days to think up a response. You know the old adage about ASSuming something, don't you??"

Looks like satire is lost on yet another... Yes jeski, I 'actually' thought you took 18 days to come up with that. <smh>

"But...I thoroughly understand you being irritated by my constantly having to correct you"

Lol, read your post again - you really think that I am the one who sounds irritated? ROTFLOL!!!

I love these hard core Tea Partiers... Too bad you didn't decide to respond to what was posted regarding the actual topic of discussion and instead tried to ridicule me ;)

"It's unfortunate for you that each time you try one of these lame attempts at ridicule, you only lose more credibility."

Speaking of lame attempts at ridicule, hello pot;

"OF WHAT???

The "glorious" liberal utopia of Detroit??? Excuse me while I upchuck!

Who was the party who ruined the economy with the subprime lending fiasco??

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who ruled Detroit for 50 years and left it in shambles?

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who pushed through a thoroughly faulty bill which is now making healthcare more expensive and less effective?

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who spent TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars on failed initiatives like Solyndra, Fisker, Abound, etc???

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who left Americans high and dry in Benghazi?

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who is the party pushing gun control on America while hundreds of people die every year in the gun-controlled liberal utopia of Chicago, demonstrating without a doubt that their plans not only are ineffective, but have exactly the opposite effect intended??

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

If all these (and too many more) are what you call "positive", no wonder you think that anything else is negative. If you look down and see your butt cheeks instead of your kneecaps, you should get an inkling that something's wrong!"

If you had any credibility left before you posted these rants, I guess you would accuse yourself now of not having any? ;)
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 7:46:15 AM

Passer said: >I can see the utter jealously burning in the Tea Party's artificial hearts.

They are a party of Destruction, and tearing down. They haven't proposed one positive thing in their existence except "leave me alone".<

Utter jealously???

OF WHAT???

The "glorious" liberal utopia of Detroit??? Excuse me while I upchuck!

Who was the party who ruined the economy with the subprime lending fiasco??

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who ruled Detroit for 50 years and left it in shambles?

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who pushed through a thoroughly faulty bill which is now making healthcare more expensive and less effective?

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who spent TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars on failed initiatives like Solyndra, Fisker, Abound, etc???

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who was the party who left Americans high and dry in Benghazi?

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

Who is the party pushing gun control on America while hundreds of people die every year in the gun-controlled liberal utopia of Chicago, demonstrating without a doubt that their plans not only are ineffective, but have exactly the opposite effect intended??

D-U-M-B-O-C-R-A-T-S!!!

If all these (and too many more) are what you call "positive", no wonder you think that anything else is negative. If you look down and see your butt cheeks instead of your kneecaps, you should get an inkling that something's wrong!
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 7:34:29 AM

Weaslespit said: "It took you that much time to come up with that? Yikes..."

It's YOUR folly to suggest that I read your Nov 11 post immediately then took 18 days to think up a response. You know the old adage about ASSuming something, don't you??

I've mentioned before how I don't spend a lot of time on this site and if a topic gets some recent posts in it, I'll go back to my most recent post in it and try to catch up with the conversation since then.

But...I thoroughly understand you being irritated by my constantly having to correct you. No one likes to constantly be told that they're wrong, especially when they were SO SURE they were right! It's unfortunate for you that each time you try one of these lame attempts at ridicule, you only lose more credibility.
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 5:33:38 AM

Like CHICAGO iLLONOIS, OAKLAND CALIFORNIA, CAMDEN, NJ, CLEVELAND, OHIO, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA well you get the idea.......
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 11:26:47 AM

"weas, don't look up......."

How about those Flyers! Looking up, eh? Nice wins over Gonzaga and Cal, heartbreaking loss to Baylor...
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 9:22:42 AM

weas, don't look up.......
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 9:11:50 AM

"Huh? - what is that guy even talking about?"

LOL! Not surprised that bit of satire went over your head 75...
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 8:00:49 AM

Huh? - what is that guy even talking about?

↓ ↓ ↓
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2013 3:04:11 PM

"Or more likely, they're just running out of things to burn down."

I can see the utter jealously burning in the Tea Party's artificial hearts.

They are a party of Destruction, and tearing down. They haven't proposed one positive thing in their existence except "leave me alone".

It is with the Tea Party's Crackodile Tears they look at Detroit and say "they're just running out of things to burn down" while at the same time they are secretly eating their artificial hearts out. Their concern for Detroit would be like Nero's concern would be if a prominent Christian's home burned down...

Just imagine an Anarchist's "concern" for a city's bankruptcy and destruction. If they were not hypocrites and were a bit truthful they would moan that their only regret was that they didn't do it themselves.

However, there is hope. With Gerrymandering they might get their chance (at least in some red states).






[Edited by: Passer at 12/1/2013 3:10:22 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2013 1:06:43 PM

"Or more likely, they're just running out of things to burn down."

It took you that much time to come up with that? Yikes...

Given the state of the City, there is more fodder than ever prime for burning - you show yet again you know nothing of which you speak ;)
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2013 7:17:08 PM

Weaselspit said: "So then the Liberal agenda is in good standing seeing as how arson on Devil's Night is down dramatically based on the data you provided."

Or more likely, they're just running out of things to burn down.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2013 3:53:25 PM

If 0bama had a city, he would probably bail them out.

Oh, yeah........$24.2M federal grant to hire 150 Detroit firefighters a 'godsend'

"After losing out on millions in federal grants for years, the Fire Department turned to the Detroit Public Safety Foundation, a nonprofit foundation founded in 2011 to boost Detroit’s waning public safety resources."

"Govan said the nonprofit dedicated two grant writers to look for any grant “we could possibly get.”
The grant will fund new firefighters’ salaries and benefits for two years."

"The latest grant is a “godsend,” said Executive Fire Commissioner Don Austin, who credited the foundation with securing the grants that will boost staffing."

I beg to differ with Mr. Austin. It's a "TAXPAYER-send".
So now we have a city that can't pay for its own services, so it hires a private foundation to write grant applications (i.e. beg for money from the benevolent and beneficent Federal Government) and when money is granted it's sighs of relief and high-fives all around the Detroit roundtable.

Lovely.

And in two years? Another grant? Another taxpayer gift? Layoff the recently hired firefighters?
How about raise taxes (yeah, I said it) on the residents of Detroit so that the city can pay its own bills?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2013 4:29:25 PM

"Detroit's population is almost 75% liberals, and has the distinction of being the most liberal city in America. I think that this speaks well for itself."

So then the Liberal agenda is in good standing seeing as how arson on Devil's Night is down dramatically based on the data you provided.

Liberals are preventing Conservatives from buring Detroit down... Well-said! LOL

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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2013 2:03:54 PM

Detroit's population is almost 75% liberals, and has the distinction of being the most liberal city in America. I think that this speaks well for itself.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2013 1:00:46 PM

"... pushed the IRS into harassing his political enemies"

There is NO evidence (outside of "religious" hypocrites practicing their usual False Witness lies) of Obama "pushing" the IRS into harassing his political enemies. There was IRS laziness where they would use a political word be it in the Conservative or Liberal vocabulary and use a program to further identify whether such political organizations qualified for the tricky definition and law as to whether they were truly "exempt".

If you have evidence that Obama "pushed" the IRS into "harassing his political enemies" please link it here or apologize

(so that when you ask for Forgiveness on Sunday Your Lord will at least know that you are sincere!).

I thought not.






[Edited by: Passer at 11/11/2013 1:04:15 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2013 9:38:14 AM

"What do you do if you're a liberal, living in a self-imposed blight? Enjoy a fine tradition with such activities as arson of course!"

Did you really just try to connect a political ideology with arson?

Yikes... The Tea Partiers would be proud.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2013 2:23:31 AM

The Fed has not stopped QE2 "the printing of money". The Sovereign Debt dept's of the credit agencies have not lowered or even put on warning the US credit rating again. That is the FACT. Hemond's hatred will not and does not change that fact.



I realize the Tea Party creates their own facts as they are in a political bubble based primarily on hatred rather then reason. But anybody with any type of education knows how wrong they are and that one of the biggest problems of the Tea Party is that they think their opinions constitute facts. They just can't tell the difference. Hemond is wrong but one just can't argue with someone's personal hatred of their political opponent. If Obama said 2 + 2 = 4 the Tea Party would spend money and time trying to say he was wrong.

[Edited by: Passer at 11/11/2013 2:24:44 AM EST]
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2013 3:28:05 PM

:::::It was the shutdown of the government the last time that had Moody's lower the credit rating. ::::::


False.


A credit rating bureau rates the ability to pay. The US is bankrupt and unable to pay without printing worthless paper money. That is the reason the credit was downgraded. Nothing to do with shutdown.

As long as the party in power continues to print worthless paper, the credit rating will continue plummeting.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2013 2:41:43 PM

What do you do if you're a liberal, living in a self-imposed blight? Enjoy a fine tradition with such activities as arson of course!
Rash of east-side Detroit fires mars an otherwise quiet Angels' Night, officials say
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 18, 2013 8:55:33 AM

"Obviously your rabid hatred of Obama is so deep that it will excuse you from bearing false witness against him. Hatred, not politics, does that!"

Exactly!
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2013 10:51:09 PM

"Have you bothered to account for all the things that Obozo has done to his city" of America?"

(don't have time to reply to all the falsehoods at once)"... lowered the credit rating"

It was the shutdown of the government the last time that had Moody's lower the credit rating. The American People have blamed the GOP in general and the Tea Party in particular for shutting down the government -- of course facts aren't high on the anti-Education Tea Party list of admirable qualities any more than it is to a mob, so they won't believe that they are wrong in any way and can't make mistakes but to mislead other less intelligent people jestibuff with "Obama lowered the credit rating" is ignorance at its height.

Obviously your rabid hatred of Obama is so deep that it will excuse you from bearing false witness against him. Hatred, not politics, does that!











[Edited by: Passer at 10/17/2013 10:53:52 PM EST]
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2013 8:25:48 PM

Passer said: >Obama has a city, it's called America.

If the Tea Party had a city they'd blow it up trying to "fix" it.<

Have you bothered to account for all the things that Obozo has done to his "city" of America?

- doubled the national debt
- lowered the credit rating
- stagnated the economy
- lowered the value of the dollar
- wasted billions on failed green energy initiatives
- wasted trillions on failed stimulus plans
- spent more money and energy on keeping veterans and Americans out of memorials and parks than he did on defending just 4 Americans in Benghazi
- pushed the IRS into harassing his political enemies
- abused his powers by using NSA to spy on Americans
- pushed through the mindless boondoggle known as ObozoCare
- lost credibility with foreign powers
- I'm sure there are many others that I left out of that list...it's going to need to be computerized pretty soon to keep track of all of Obozo's failures

But, in other words...don't you have it a little mixed up as to who's "blowing up" the nation??
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2013 11:12:45 AM

How 'bout them Tigers last night.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2013 12:31:10 AM

Obama has a city, it's called America.

If the Tea Party had a city they'd blow it up trying to "fix" it.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2013 9:07:17 AM

Yeah, Tigers won it in '84 and Dodgers in '88, so that makes us about equal...

LOL!
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2013 8:31:55 AM

Weaslespit said: "Wow. Let it go kid."

Translation: "Okay, you got me! I've got nowhere left to run."
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2013 8:30:57 AM

El_Gato_Negro said: "I would think that any body who keeps calling somebody a coward when they know that the person can not see them is the real coward."

Well, that's typical liberal thinking now, isn't it?

Does Obozo have to know that I call him an idiot in order to make him an idiot? NO! If I call him an idiot and he can't hear me, it doesn't mean that he's NOT an idiot, does it? His actions have pretty much proven that he is.

Is it necessary for BabeTruth to read my words to understand his cowardice? No...he posts in a political forum then wets his pants and runs to the moderators when he can't muster a response to a question when he's cornered. That pretty much sealed the deal, didn't it?

I don't know for sure whether or not he can read my posts and it doesn't really matter, because it really doesn't change the underlying facts. And he probably can read YOUR words, Et_Gato_Negro, so it's not unrealistic to expect that he hasn't a clue as to what's being talked about. Plus, I'm sure you libs probably PM each other, trying to come up with some kind of strategy to respond to the conservatives' posts. So, fire up those messages and work on that brainstorming, 'cause you're falling WAY behind!
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nraacct
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 10:21:53 PM

US sending bankrupt Detroit $300 million. Think 'stimulus,' not 'bailout.'

Remember the key words in the article: Just don’t call it a bailout.

[Edited by: nraacct at 9/28/2013 10:26:21 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 8:58:12 PM

"Dashing your premise into little pieces wouldn't have been necessary if you hadn't repeatedly demanded credit for something you weren't responsible for."

Wow. Let it go kid.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 8:55:56 PM

"OK, but when was the last time the Tigers won a series?"

1984. Point?
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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 12:21:28 PM

<<No...just further evidence that he proved himself a coward. He not only chose not to answer the question, he put himself in a position where he could post something and pretend that I saw it and was incapable of formulating a response to it.>>

I would think that any body who keeps calling somebody a coward when they know that the person can not see them is the real coward.

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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 8:24:00 AM

EZExit said: "a bulldozer would be appropriate."

Wow. It took about a decade to go from GHWB's "1000 points of light" to Obozo's "1000 bulldozer operators", which is about what it would take to eliminate the wreckage in Detroit, caused by liberal mismanagement.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2013 8:17:54 AM

Weaslespit said: "Gosh, I didn't realize I was supposed to check your whiteboard every time I posted something. Is it really that hard to give somebody credit for helping out?"

Dashing your premise into little pieces wouldn't have been necessary if you hadn't repeatedly demanded credit for something you weren't responsible for. I have no problem giving anyone (liberal or conservative) credit for something helpful or informative, especially when it's done under the radar. The philanthropists who deserve the most praise are the ones who are nearly invisible; not those who sometimes shower millions of dollars publicly in hopes of being lauded with praise. They demonstrate that they do so mainly to feed their own ego rather than to really help out a cause.

Just look at I75at7AM's response. He quietly posted a message to my whiteboard...there was no mention of it (out of him) in this thread. By posting to my whiteboard, he upped the chances for me to see it (with the e-mail notification). He never crowed about "educating" me, although he's the one who resolved the mystery. HE deserves the pat on the back, if anyone does!

But...thanks for TRYING to help. Next time just do it out of the goodness of your heart instead of wanting some kind of recognition for it.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2013 11:47:50 PM

Division champs? OK, but when was the last time the Tigers won a series?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2013 11:34:40 PM

"So much so, that from the pictures I saw, a bulldozer would be appropriate."

Yes, there are areas where this is required. The City is working on it.

See;

"An additional $100 million would go to blight efforts, including $25 million for commercial demolitions from combined federal, state and foundation money."

Link

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 9/27/2013 11:37:14 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2013 11:34:06 PM

"How 'bout them Tigers!"

3-straight Division Champs!!!
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2013 10:50:02 PM

I understand Obama just sent them $100 million to hold them over...
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 10:46:07 AM

In looking at Tim's link, good Lord has Detroit been decimated! It looks exactly like a city annihilated following a war. So much so, that from the pictures I saw, a bulldozer would be appropriate.
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