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Author Topic: Has society failed or which part of it should be said to have failed Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 8:10:20 PM

I didn't write the article but I do agree that any part of society that accepts this is a failure in itself.
.
>>>As if more evidence were needed about the tragedy of black education, Rachel Jeantel, a witness for the prosecution in the George Zimmerman murder trial, put a face on it for the nation to see. Some of that evidence unfolded when Zimmerman's defense attorney asked 19-year-old Jeantel to read a letter that she allegedly had written to Trayvon Martin's mother. She responded that she doesn't read cursive, and that's in addition to her poor grammar, syntax and communication skills.
Jeantel is a senior at Miami Norland Senior High School. How in the world did she manage to become a 12th-grader without being able to read cursive writing? That's a skill one would expect from a fourth-grader. Jeantel is by no means an exception at her school. Here are a few achievement scores from her school: Thirty-nine percent of the students score basic for reading, and 38 percent score below basic. In math, 37 percent score basic, and 50 percent score below basic. Below basic is the score when a student is unable to demonstrate even partial mastery of knowledge and skills fundamental for proficient work at his grade level. Basic indicates only partial mastery.

Few Americans, particularly black Americans, have any idea of the true magnitude of the black education tragedy. The education establishment might claim that it's not their fault. They're not responsible for the devastation caused by female-headed families, drugs, violence and the culture of dependency. But they are totally responsible for committing gross educational fraud. It's educators who graduated Jeantel from elementary and middle school and continued to pass her along in high school. It's educators who will, in June 2014, confer upon her a high-school diploma.

It's not just Florida's schools. According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, nationally most black 12th-graders test either basic or below basic in reading, writing, math and science. Drs. Abigail and Stephan Thernstrom wrote in their 2004 book, "No Excuses: Closing the Racial Gap in Learning," "Blacks nearing the end of their high school education perform a little worse than white eighth-graders in both reading and U.S. history, and a lot worse in math and geography." Little has changed since the book's publication.<<<

But this is the most damming part of the whole article --
.
>>>The educational system and black family structure and culture have combined to make increasing numbers of young black people virtually useless in the increasingly high-tech world of the 21st century. Too many people believe that pouring more money into schools will help. That's whistlin' "Dixie." Whether a student is black or white, poor or rich, there are some minimum requirements that must be met in order to do well in school. Someone must make the student do his homework, see to it that he gets a good night's sleep, fix a breakfast, make sure he gets to school on time and make sure he respects and obeys his teachers. Here are my questions: Which one of those requirements can be achieved through a higher school budget? Which can be achieved by politicians? If those minimal requirements aren't met, whatever else is done is mostly for naught.<<<

I don't wish this to be a racial argument as I don't see it that way. What I do see is a group or subculture or segment of our society that is accepting this as normal. This sentence to me sums up the real problem - "Whether a student is black or white, poor or rich, there are some minimum requirements that must be met in order to do well in school."

Why is the school system allowing students (regardless of group or other nonmerit factors) to be advanced through the system.

When I went to school - if you didn't perform at an acceptable level and pass the tests - you didn't go to the next grade. It is not fair to any child to let them advance in school without mastering the minimums needed to function at the next level.


[Edited by: flyboyUT at 7/10/2013 8:11:40 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2013 3:06:45 PM

If the common people can not afford what the super-rich have required; then perhaps some of these exorbitant salaries of the power-junkies should be cut back so the rank and file workers can be paid more.

Also,

Automation -should- allow humans to work less and enjoy life more. So far that has not happened. It only allows the richest to utilize machines to cut more jobs and get richer.

With all these work-saving advances and increases in productivity we should be down to a 30-hour full time work week by now. (with full pay and benefits).

Instead the powerful have taken all the spoils for themselves by increasing their own wealth 600% as the rest are struggling to get by.

And the astonishing thing is that many of these powerful-and-greedy call themselves Christians.

I would call them CINOs.
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Sep 25, 2013 10:06:31 AM

Some are complacent into thinking Socialism delivered by the Democrats is the answer or first step in the "right direction".

Our so-called transformation is failing miserably because Democrats are NEVER the answer (nor are the current "McCain" Republicans for that matter)

Why some of you insist that $900/mo Obamacare is an isolated occurrence have their heads in the sand. That is the new price for the American family and our economy won't be able to handle the "taxing" effects of this financial burden.

The money has to come from somewhere and it will be from the unsuspecting retail sector in lost sales which turns in layoffs and store closings.

Yeah, Democrats are too dumb to understand this. Who cares they say! We get votes for this!

Roman empire death watch part II ...
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 25, 2013 9:42:22 AM

Well, you are getting into some heavy semantics there, NN.

So did the Roman empire 'fail' or did it simply 'change' into non-existence?
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NothingNew
Rookie Author Rockford

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 11:02:33 PM

Societies do not fail They change. People fail when they are unable, or unwilling to change with the society that they profess to be part of. This is part of human nature, the aversion to change. It makes us uncomfortable, leaving us in a strange new works. Alone and naked, like a bad dream.

Economic systems can fall apart. Military power can collapse. Alliances can shift, becoming ephemeral.

These are a few of the changes that society undergoes on a regular basis. People who fail to keep up may make excuses about a "failed society", but that is because they cannot admit that the failure is really theirs.

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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 4:17:12 PM

If you think NAFTA and CAFTA were bad wait til you get a hold of the TPP!
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 4:14:49 PM

EZExit

I think we agree the government is the enabler destroying society. We should all be concerned NAFT, CAFTA.

WHY should we be concerned? Lower paying jobs and less employment opportunities means all who have, and are doing well, will have to pay more taxes for those that make less.

Don't ever kid your self into thinking it will ever take less to run our country.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2013 3:36:58 PM

Greed from the top is our biggest problem. The super-rich power-junkies have been whittling away at the middle class by forcing us all into a race to the bottom to compete with the most desperate workers in foreign slums. This leaves less time for quality parenting. Poor parenting means disciplinary issues disrupt teaching.

The super-rich have become quite adept at extracting wealth from labor. They have figured out how to down-size jobs while maximizing productivity. This allows them to make more money per worker. They don't care about the workers. They only use them to get more money. The more unemployed and underemployed there are the more desperate job-seekers become. And the less they will work for.

Super wealth is too often the result of seeing how much productivity can be gotten out of the fewest number of man-hours. OK if your only goal is to make money for a few people and you simply don't care about others. A company used to be a team of people working together to provide a product or service valuable to society. This arrangement is good for all involved. Now a big corporation is a more of a vehicle to make the executives and investors rich by screwing the workers and the customers.

The difference is the same as the difference between the win/win philosophy and win/lose. Win/win is where the goal is to make a deal where everyone benefits mutually. This is how civilization has advanced to where we are today. We worked together and combined our efforts to = greater than the sum of our parts. Together we could do things that could not be done by individuals working alone. Win/lose is the idea that in order to get something you have to take it from somebody else by trickery or by taking advantage of another's misfortune. This is how a society is destroyed from within. If you support what our big corporations are doing then you support the demise of civliization, the failure of our society and the American way!
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 1:13:01 PM

Bottom line, society is indeed failing, as our government plays the role as the "enabler".
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2013 6:59:02 AM

good article, fly, good one.
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DaMiamiTwinz
Rookie Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2013 4:36:55 PM

To graduate from high school is an honor. No child should receive a diploma when it is not earn. That piece of paper says " I can read, write, spell and speak in a complete sentence.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2013 6:04:06 PM

The drugs crime and cultural issues are all symptoms of the increased pressure to make ends meet which results in poor parenting.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2013 5:59:45 PM

BTW, just a quick google search completely blows SS's usual anti-success rhetoric out of the water. Drugs, crime, and cultural issues lead the way for the reasons for single parent homes...not greed and too much time spent trying to earn a dollar.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2013 5:56:07 PM

"I would just like to add, if I may, that the reason for so many single parent families is the greed of the rich and powerful."

So the rich and powerful make women and men, out of wedlock, make children that they cannot support and then make me support them through my tax dollars?
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2013 5:51:16 PM

This is a very astute post:

streetrider: "The real response would be longer than the original post.

Our society has failed as it unravelled with tight bonded communities.

One parent families, women leaving the house for the work world.
Lack of respect for each other as well as each others property.

Teachers that have not only to teach but parent the child.
Our ways have not kept up with the changing society.
There is a good article I read several years ago called broken windows.
It portrays how a community neighborhood deteriorates. Much of what the article outlines is what is happened to our society in general.

As far as raising the intellectual level of kids from academically challenged parents. The schools would have to give special help and or adult education to parents willing to participate. If the parents don't know much don't expect the kids will be on equal level with parent who sit and teach children. "

--I would just like to add, if I may, that the reason for so many single parent families is the greed of the rich and powerful. It is harder to get by in today's economy; so most families are two-earner or single parent. This economic pressure simply leaves less time for parenting. The rich and powerful systematically extract wealth from the middle and poor. Just as Walmart constantly increases their efficiency at making products cheaper and reducing labor costs the rich and powerful constantly increase their efficiency at doing this extraction of wealth from the rest of us.

The struggle amidst the increased difficulty to make ends meet represents increased stress on families. The result is that parenting suffers.

Greed is causing our society to go slowly but surely downhill.

No big surprise, as the few get fantastically rich the rest suffer.

In other news, top end yacht sales are up. But tax receipts from them are down because mostly they are registered in foreign nations to avoid any monetary show of patriotism.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2013 11:54:07 PM

>>Nick you need to check your link. For 2011 the last year the link has information Missouri placed right at or just above the national average for reading.<<

Missouri scored lower than the national average for whites and lower for blacks. But there's a 25 point difference in the scores for whites and blacks, and because Missouri has a higher percentage of whites and a lower percentage of blacks than the national average, it skews their overall average higher. But using apples-to-apples and oranges-to-oranges comparisons, both Missouri and Utah trail the pack.
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johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2013 8:23:08 PM

Nick you need to check your link. For 2011 the last year the link has information Missouri placed right at or just above the national average for reading. I don’t see what this has to do with getting a free pass because I don’t know what free pass you’re talking about. We don’t get any special bonus points for being from Missouri or any other state.

What I object to is giving people (fill in the blank with your description) bonus points because society feels sorry for them. It takes away from people have worked hard to earn that possession.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2013 7:42:25 PM

You are programed to respect or not respect long be for you are able to receive grades promotions etc.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2013 11:49:52 AM

>>That’s the way you improve, not by lowering the standard.<<

No one's lowering any standards, johnny. Like I said, they're raising the standards, but it has to be done realistically. People come from different environments, different backgrounds, different financial situations, and all that needs to be taken into consideration. Look at the NAEP State Comparisons and select Grade 4, Mathematics, Race/Ethnicity - White and Black, and 2011. The national average score for Blacks is 224 while that of Whites is 249, a difference of 25. But the score for Blacks has increased by 32 points since 1992 while Whites have seen an increase of 22 points. So, the gap is closing and everyone's scores have improved. That is the goal.

Keep in mind that there are also huge differences between the states. Heck, even just among Whites there's a 23 point difference between the lowest and highest states. But I don't see you or anyone else carping about that, only race.

 
>>Blacks and other minorities are just as capable as white males.<<

And people from Missouri and Utah are just as capable as those from Massachusetts, Maryland, and New Jersey. Yet year after year in both reading and math Whites from your states score below the national average, and Blacks score below the national average. Why are we giving you guys a free pass?
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2013 1:27:59 AM

>>>>>The most damaging thing you can do to a society is to give people something for nothing and then tell them that it's their right to receive it. <<<<<<<

That goes for grades, high dollar shoes, jobs, a roof, promotions, money, even food. If you give someone something they don’t respect it and have no respect for those that have earned it. Then when they see someone with something they don’t have but worked for they want that too. They think it’s their right to have that too so they take it or find someone to get it for them.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2013 12:51:43 AM

The most damaging thing you can do to a society is to give people something for nothing and then tell them that it's their right to receive it.


mudtoe
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2013 12:37:17 AM

The real response would be longer than the original post.

Our society has failed as it unravelled with tight bonded communities.

One parent families, women leaving the house for the work world.
Lack of respect for each other as well as each others property.

Teachers that have not only to teach but parent the child.
Our ways have not kept up with the changing society.
There is a good article I read several years ago called broken windows.
It portrays how a community neighborhood deteriorates. Much of what the article outlines is what is happened to our society in general.

As far as raising the intellectual level of kids from academically challenged parents. The schools would have to give special help and or adult education to parents willing to participate. If the parents don't know much don't expect the kids will be on equal level with parent who sit and teach children.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2013 12:28:22 AM

Nick I have failed at many things in my life some of the time I said OK and went on. On the things I considered important I looked at what I did wrong and tried to improve. That’s the way you improve, not by lowering the standard. Blacks and other minorities are just as capable as white males. But they have to be the ones who decide what is important and improve themselves. If you give them a free pass you are teaching them to fail. I have seen the result. We have give a mechanical aptitude test and the company I work for gives bonus points to minorities on it and in other parts of the application process. I run a shop and I don’t care what your skin color is when you work for me. If you can’t read the tech manual or follow the trouble shooting tree I will have you work with a good mechanic. If you don’t improve this field is not for you and I will get rid of you. I maintain 120 vehicles with a total of thirteen mechanics on three shifts. I don’t have the extra mechanic capacity to absorb a mechanic that can’t or won’t do his job.

Kids have to learn that if you don’t meet the standard you need to improve.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 17, 2013 11:53:53 PM

>>I am also saying that having lower standards for one group of children because of skin tone is wrong.<<

flyboy, here is what you don't understand. Certain groups of children are starting off with lower test scores. You can't magically say, "We're going to have these kids increase their test scores by 30% in one year and if they don't we're going to call your schools 'failing schools'". If group A (and I'm just making up these numbers) averages 90, group B averages 85, group C averages 80, and group D averages 75, you can't expect groups C and D to magically catch up to groups A and B in one year. You can't say, "Next year I want all groups to average 92" - it's just not going to happen. It has to happen gradually, with the lower groups increasing their scores more than the higher groups and closing the gap.

The end goal is that ALL kids from EVERY group will meet certain minimum standards, but it won't magically happen overnight, and it certainly won't happen if you set unrealistic goals, then punish those who don't meet those unrealistic goals.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2013 11:00:06 AM

gocat - I hear you - I used to help teach a science class at a local high school.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2013 10:56:53 AM

If you are truly concerned about education become a volunteer in your local school system. I did and I loved it. As a shift worker I had lots of spare time on my hands during the week. I spent about 5 years in a special ed class. It was a challenge that had many rewards. The teacher and I realized I could get a little more enthusiasm from the kids by just showing up. I also worked with 6th graders for a few years. One of these students later graduated from West Point. I was given many awards for my service. I was also put up for a state award. But none of the awards compared to the self satisfaction I got helping a child that needed a little extra help.
I say stop complaining and get involved.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2013 9:57:47 AM

Thank you Steve for your response.
Clear & sadly true.

Family.....
It has become a convoluted word.
You had 2 parents, up to 4 grand parents & a few siblings. ( Aunts & crazy uncles too but they vary )
Parenting is not easy.
I use to hound my son to do his homework & get better grades. Tried to make him understand the question or problem. Not just giving him the answer when he got stuck.
I look at him now Proud of what he has become....because I cared & brought him up to know how to survive & get things done.
You need some sort of Stabile home life or you as a person look to fill the void. You either find someone that helps you or pulls you down to their level. Knowing right from wrong depends on which way you go.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2013 10:59:46 AM

Twitter mob threatens to kill Zimmerman, see the big stars who tweeted - has society failed? It appears these people failed.
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ZennieWA
Sophomore Author Washington

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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2013 10:51:18 AM

<<I am also saying that having lower standards for one group of children because of skin tone is wrong. Both thoughts are similar - an education system that is failing to do the job.>>

I agree, I went to a college that operated on a bell curve, there was a certain football player who just couldn't cut it and the professor actually asked me to "tone down" my scores to be more in line with the rest of the class. I responded that instead of asking me to drop to their level why not ask them to rise to mine, I lost my scholarship that year.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2013 10:30:48 AM

Nick if you dont understand what I am trying to get at then I feel sorry that I have not make it clear enough.

I am saying that schools that promote or graduate students (regardless of skin tone) who do not meet the standards are wrong and are doing our society and children a disservice.

I am also saying that having lower standards for one group of children because of skin tone is wrong. Both thoughts are similar - an education system that is failing to do the job.

Now is there anything else you don't understand or that I might make clearer for you.

This isnt about race - its about not requiring all people to be judged by the same standards. Its about allowing people to be unjustly promoted when they dont deserve it and to allow educational systems to facilitate this inequality of education.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2013 11:31:13 PM

>>I don't wish this to be a racial argument as I don't see it that way.<<

Followed by...

>>Why are liberals still the flat out racists by having different standards for people based on race.<<

Congratulations, you've now made it a racial argument (and, of course, thrown in your usual stupid liberal-bashing generalization).

>>Someone tell me how this makes sense????????<<

I see absolutely no point in trying to explain it to you, as you've already made up your mind based on nothing more than that idiotic townhall.com article you linked to.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2013 6:28:37 PM

This is wrong on so many levels its hard to understand why a liberal would even propose such a thing
\.
>>>

The Alabama Federation of Republican Women (AFRW) strongly opposes "race-based standards for student achievement" pushed by the Alabama Department of Education, as reported in The Tuscaloosa News on Sunday, June 30. Minority students will be held to a lower standard, and would be tracked at a lower standard throughout their academic career from K-12.

According to this article by Jamon Smith, "Beginning this fall, Alabama public schools will be under a new state-created academic accountability system that sets different goals for students in math and reading based on their race, economic status, ability to speak English and disabilities." Alabama's Plan 2020 "sets a different standard for students in each of several subgroups -- American Indian, Asian/Pacific islander, black, English language learners, Hispanic, multirace, poverty, special education and white."

The "race-based" standards are part of Common Core, adopted by the state board of education in November 2010.<<<

What in the world ever happened to we are supposed to be equal and we are supposed to look at people based on achievements and who they are? Why are liberals still the flat out racists by having different standards for people based on race.

That is wrong on so many levels its hard to believe that it still happens. What is so discouraging is that so many libs will say its ok and blame the cons for saying we should all be equal..... Someone tell me how this makes sense????????
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 11:30:02 PM

The NTSB has now sent out an apology...

Is there not any government agency anymore that isn't a joke?
NTSB Press Release
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 10:17:35 PM

Here is an example of a news organization, KTVU news in Oakland, reporting news that was obviously false. Another sign of poor education in this country. Enjoy..

Asiana Pilots names from KTVU News
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 8:29:01 PM

In 2000 my wife moved herself and kids out of the city because of the schools. In the city schools the kids don’t major in academics they major in assault. The schools are not safe for the kids or the teachers and it isn’t a lack of money. Since 2000 the city schools have lost their accreditation. So have some of the north county schools. No under a state law these kids who think throwing bricks through city bus windows on the way home is an after school activity are being brought into our schools. It will result in a 45 minuet bus did each way for the bused kids. As we saw with past student transfer programs it will result in the schools these kids are brought to declining. We moved into the area to get away from the violence and now it is being brought to us. In the end if I am right you will see the schools scores start to drop and people with the ability will start to leave and take their money with them. It won’t fix the problem in the city schools because as the schools loses kids it will lose state money and don’t forget the cost of transportation. In the end it will destroy a good school district.

You can take the kid out of the ghetto but you can’t take the ghetto out of the kid.

[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 7/12/2013 8:31:44 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 7:07:35 PM

Johnny - dont you know its the fault of all them vets who didnt stay home....
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 6:42:00 PM

I’m waiting for someone to blame Bush and the war in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 12, 2013 3:14:36 PM

Surprising nobody has blamed Obama for this yet.
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 11:20:55 PM

It was painful to watch witness Jeantel. She was completely incomprehensible. The judge and court reporter and attorneys kept asking her to repeat clearly and loudly. She was incapable of forming a basic sentence. She was incapable of speech.

I'm going to take a guess that she is unable to read, write, or add 2+2. She is 19 years old and still has a year of high school. If the administrators social graduate her, she'll be 20. I've never heard of a 20 yo in high school.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 8:46:33 PM

I think the part of the society that has failed is the family. When my grandfather died my mom was the oldest of five and she was only seven. This was just before WWII started and there was no food stamps no SSI and no help for her except family and her own hard work. She was a public school teacher and sold head stones delivered in her car. This was in a small town in Minnesota that was so small it didn’t get a real traffic light until sometime after 1995.

She had a three bedroom house. The three boys shared one room and the two girls and my grandmother shared one room. Granma let that “single mother” move in and she used the third bedroom with her daughter. The “single mother” and my grandmother both worked together to make ends meet and they did without a lot. Back then being a single mother was not acceptable and it was shocking that grandma would let her live with her. During the war grandfather’s brother the doctor would give grandma his old tires when he got new ones. Being a doctor he could get new tiers when most people couldn’t. That was all the help she would take and only because she needed the tires to get to the next town to teach and to deliver the headstones. That and at the end of the summer the local grocery store would let her run a tab until school started. She would pay the store back with her first paycheck. The oldest boy was the only boy that got new clothes on a regular basses. The others usually got had me downs.

Today’s kids think not having the newest smart phone and latest fashions is child abuse. As each of the boys got old enough they all spent the summers working one of the local farms just outside of town. They kept some of the money but most of the money they earned helped out during the lean months of the summer. All three of them decided they didn’t want to work on farms and two of them joined the Navy. One retired and one was a Seal, he was KIA in Viet Nam. After two years on the farm the last one went to work as a caddy on a golf cores rather than on the farm. He worked his way up to banquets manager and did very well. Today’s kids expect everything handed to them and physical labor is torture in their minds.

She taught her kids right from wrong, or as I call it morality and she didn’t tolerate any BS. The tanning of rear ends was not unheard of and church on Sunday was not optional. Today the UN is trying to make forcing your own kids to go to your church a form of child abuse. Grandma told the kids it was her way or the highway. Given the fact that there was no option in the way of government help the kids didn’t like the idea of the highway and towed the line. Remember this was before the government started to tell parents how to raise a kid and the idea of spare the rod spoil the child was a mantra for raising kids. If one of the parents in the neighborhood caught any kid getting out of line they were afraid to go home because they did something wrong and embarrassed mom. This was true not only for my mom and he brothers and sisters this was the way it was in the whole town. In fact you were lucky if you were sent home and not dragged home.

The real problem in this country is we don’t teach right from wrong and the government tell us what we should teach and how we should raise our kids. The government hands our kids condoms without adequately explaining the consequences and then subsidizes the result. The government tells the kids every kind of fringe behavior is normal but condemns traditional values.

The loss of respect for the family and respect for authority is destroying the nation. You can see the disrespect for parents in popular culture. How many shows aimed and youth show parents as idiots that kids need to get past to have a good time? Even Disney has sexed up young teens, sometimes even preteens. Look at kids programming and you don’t have to ask why babies are having babies. In the early eighties I had one girl in my high school get pregnant in four years. She disappeared. My 16 year old son has at least seven pregnant girls in just his class.

We need to get the government out of the parent child relationship and let parents be responsible for their kids. Smacking your misbehaving kid on the butt is not child abuse it’s called discipline.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 12:52:38 PM

EZExit, I'm assuming that children of welfare families do poorly in school when compared to children of families which earn too much to qualify for welfare. Do you thinl this is an incorrect assumption? If so, can you show me why?

"Someone must make the student do his homework, see to it that he gets a good night's sleep, fix a breakfast, make sure he gets to school on time and make sure he respects and obeys his teachers."
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 12:49:09 PM

I never claimed that witness DID come from a welfare family. That's not the point. It is merely the item which initiated a conversation about the effectiveness of education in our nation.

Anybody who thinks it is a good idea to keep giving free money to people who have nothing better to do than to churn out more kids needs to answer my question:

"We gave them money for a place to live, food to eat and nothing to do. So they churned out lots of children and taught them to expect these things. WHAT did we EXPECT to happen?"

Or how about this one:

What else do we expect this to lead us to as far as long range prospects besides a majority stupid nonproductive nation that votes for more hand-outs???
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EZExit
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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 12:41:08 PM

Steve, what makes you think that the girl in question is a welfare recipient? Furthermore, where would that have any bearing on the performance of the school to offer a quality education to all?
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 12:36:08 PM

Time for my conservative side to come forth again.

If students are not passing the tests to get to the next grade our answer has been to make the tests easier. That's how you gradually make society dumber and dumber.

I agree with the sentiment here. If they don't cut it they should get left behind or shunted into a special education school for dummies / family problems / behavioral issues.

My dad used to say: "Do you want to be a ditch digger your whole life?" "Then do your homework and get better grades!"

Anything less than straight A's was met with a frown and the question: "What happened here?" (pointing to a B)

***

I think it stems from the welfare mindset.

I've said it many times.

We have to end welfare / redistribution.

Set up poor houses instead. Take away child tax credits. Offer only 3 hots and a cot with a requirement to do chores / cleaning / cooking / day care / laundry / grounds work / skill training / skill sharing / painting, etc. Try to set up light mfg, thrift shops, repair, refurbishment, etc to help fund the places so the govt budget burden is minimized. Tell them: 'If you think this is bad we can make life worse for you. Your choice.'

Disrupters would be thrown out and/or sent to prison / work camps. 'Here is a broom / shovel. This end of it is where you hold it. That end goes down. Get busy. If you think this is bad we can make life worse for you. Your choice.'

This will cost a lot less for tax payers than free checks and motivate the unskilled to better themselves and stop having so many children. Look at it this way. We gave them money for a place to live, food to eat and nothing to do. So they churned out lots of children and taught them to expect these things. What did we expect?

Yes, poor houses instead of free checks is tough love. But it is showing the needy that we care about them without getting them hooked on freebies and making them so comfortable on the dole that they pass it from one generation to the next.

Otherwise the long range prospects lead us to a majority stupid nonproductive nation that votes for more hand-outs.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2013 10:43:33 AM

Worry - I really want to leave ethnic background out of the discussion - as much as it is possible to do so.

What I am trying to do is to condemn the educational system that advances kids through the grades and 'graduates' them from high school and they are actually close to functionally illiterate.

I had young people start work for me and they were supposed to be college grads. The first day on the job they proved they had no concept of mathematics or the field of study they said they had an education in. The last ten or so years I worked we ended up firing more than half of new hires - because they just were not prepared educationally to do the work. That is sad.

While the educational system has a large amount of blame I also blame the splinter culture these kids came from. In this case it had nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with booze, drugs and party time behavior.
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worryfree
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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 9:13:27 PM

Minneapolis is doing so hot educating blacks either... But you have to look to the parent(s) for a big part of the problem (and solution)..
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EZExit
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Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 9:08:06 PM

In all fairness, I am not familiar with the Florida state education system, nor the student that testified. It is indeed a tragedy if the Florida public school system allows people such as her to fall through the cracks. On the other hand, many of today's children simply don't care to apply themselves to an education, they turn to peers, drugs, alcohol, and partying for their mind stimulation. I do not know which scenario would apply in her case.

My guess would be the former, if the schools just went through the moves and passed the child along, and collect the federal money for the effort. If I was in Florida, I would demand some sort of investigation into this so that this could be corrected immediately and not leave our youth for dead.

[Edited by: EZExit at 7/10/2013 9:08:42 PM EST]
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