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Author Topic: Anyone believe our freedoms and rights are being eroded? Back to Topics
mexicomaria

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Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 1:55:00 PM

Right vs Freedom

The Constitution of a Democratic Country gives its Citizens certain rights and duties. If those rights and duties are upheld in righteous manner then the country can be said to be providing Freedom to its people. They are two different kinds of terms but related to similar items.

Thought it time to talk about the rights and freedoms of USA...as I feel they are under attack by big govt.
REPLIES (newest first) Topic is locked
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Don
Moderator
Message Posted: Sep 13, 2013 1:32:50 PM

Hello airfresh,

If a topic has not been active for two or more months, please do note post in it.

Thanks!

-Don
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daylily2009
Champion Author Fayetteville

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Message Posted: Sep 13, 2013 12:02:15 PM

yes
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HEDGEHOGS
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Sep 13, 2013 10:53:29 AM

Yes
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Sep 13, 2013 10:07:53 AM

Anyone believe our freedoms and rights are being eroded? Duh?
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FluffyDogAttack
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 8:45:49 PM

According to the best information we have, our rights were spontaneously eroded in reaction to a Youtube video. So, as we all know, that makes it okay.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 7:37:21 PM

When people talk about the slippery slope this is what they are talking about. When the Patriot Act was created what is happening now was not supposed to happen. But somewhere along the line things changed without we the people knowing.
*-
Author of Patriot Act says NSA phone records collection 'never the intent' of law
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The idea started out well intentioned but was twisted into something it was not supposed to do.

Just a little twist on an old joke.

Two ants looking at an ellaphant with the words “Constitution of the United States” written on it. One ant says to the other how are we going to eat that thing. The other ant responds “one bite at a time, one bite at a time.”


[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 6/7/2013 7:39:42 PM EST]
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 7:31:09 PM

This is just grates me....it is just my personal thingy. Why allow a terrorist to question his victims during his trial...in which he serves as his own defense. It seems like shooting the victims twice. The US army psychiatrist was about to be deployed to Afghanistan and allegedly shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", as he opened fire at a military base Fort Hood, in Texas, killing 13 people and wounding 28.

Why is this not a military trial?
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MYF111
Sophomore Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 7:21:26 PM

ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPS ABSOLUTLY. TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT THE VERY DISAPOINTING
OBAMA?
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 7:18:56 PM

>>>>But there are those on the house intelligence committee that are claiming that it has stopped other plots.<<<

There is the real problem. If they tell us about the plots that were stopped we lose a valuable tool in the fight to protect us. But without that evidence to justify the actions of the NSA we have to take their word for it. As I said earlier I don’t trust the government any more And I won’t until we see some real punishments handed out for the abuses I mentioned earlier. .


[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 6/7/2013 7:20:49 PM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 7:17:16 PM

I don’t disapprove of the collection of the data in general. National security is very important. The problem is that over last year and enhanced over the last few months I have lost my faith that we can trust our government to work within the law and act in a manner that is not an abuse of power for political gain.

The DOJ used a very week argument to convince a judge that a news reporter was a “criminal coconspirator” so that they could gain access to his phone records and E-mails. Before that we found that the government used a similar tactic to access the phone records of a broad range of phone records for one of the biggest news agencies. Before that we found out that the government was using the IRS to single out a specific political ideology for unfair treatment. Before that government records of gun owners was released to the press for publication. Before that IRS records were leaked to the political opponent of the group that was required to supply the information.

If I had any faith that the rules and law would be followed I would say I have nothing to hide. But now I have to ask who will get this information and what will they do with it. Will it be leaked to a group that I am opposed to? Will I end up on another government list because I called the local Tea-Party headquarters?

The system is run by faceless people we don’t even know the job title for much less a name to go with the unknown job, people who are not elected, and if the IRS scandal is any indication people who don’t have to answer questions or face real consequence when they are caught. Resigning a few weeks before you planned to leave is not punishment. It’s running for cover when the stuff hits the fan. I don’t call a paid suspension a punishment, I call it a vacation.



[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 6/7/2013 7:19:45 PM EST]
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 6:56:15 PM

But there are those on the house intelligence committee that are claiming that it has stopped other plots.
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 6:54:31 PM

Good question Mike....Didn't stop Boston...

Does metadata not scare you if we don't stop Boston, or Fort Hood, or two resin mailings? Especially since Obama said, "the war on terror is over".

So we sacrifice the privacy of every single person in USA to not catch any of the above terrorist.

It bothers me a lot that Fort Hood was not called terrorism, that must be because "the war on terror is over". No soldier shot there can get the purple heart or health care for life based on it was an act of violence and not terrorism(an act of war).
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 6:34:45 PM

Here is the bigger question....



Did it work? Did is stop terrorist plots?


If they did, was it worth the cost?
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 6:33:30 PM

Another scary day with the Obama Adm. Now we find out thatThe NSA and FBI appear to be casting an even wider net under a clandestine program code-named "PRISM" that came to light in a story posted late Thursday by The Washington Post. "In statements, Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft and Yahoo said they only provide the government with user data required under the law. (Google runs YouTube and Microsoft owns Skype.) AOL and Paltalk didn't immediately respond to inquiries from The Associated Press."

Ahhhh, I call this such a "transparent" President.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jun 7, 2013 10:59:41 AM

mexicomaria: "Next question....do you believe the Patriot Act trumped personal privacy of American Citizens in the name of protecting us from terrorists? "

--Absolutely.
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 12:46:07 PM

"Corruptisima republica plurimae leges." Tacitus (The more corrupt a republic, the more laws.)


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences." C.S. Lewis

[Edited by: airfresh at 6/6/2013 12:46:44 PM EST]
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 12:18:07 PM

SemiSteve, "But they couldn't think of any part of that government which they could eliminate."

Oh, but there ARE! We could start with the Department of Education, The commerce Department, and now the corrupt IRS!

Apparently the excuse for the IRS is that they just don't have enough money to do the audits correctly, they say! I guess so much money is going to their $1500 hotel rooms at their meetings, their Gilligans Island and Star Trek videos, not to mention their line dancing and other millions wasted at "conferences"!
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 12:08:59 PM

I believe that we are giving up our rights one piece at a time.

We have all seen the eminent domain abuse where land owners are losing their property not for roads dams or even a school. We see people having their property taken in a forced sale to a shopping center development. The right to keep land that has been in the family for generations taken so the community can generate tax money off a mall.

We see the first amendment twisted when a group of high school students can’t voluntarily pray before a game.

We see the fourth amendment trashed when the government grants accesses to ALL of the phone records for a national carrier.

The constitution never was intended to give agencies like the IRS, EPA, OSHA and other acronymic agencies more power than our elected officials.

We see the Interstate Commerce Claws being used not to regulate commerce but to force participation in commerce.

We see the first amendment ignored when an eleven year old boy is suspended not for making a threat but because he uttered the word “gun”

We see our government refusing to carry out its mandated to protect the country by allowing the continued flood of illegal aliens into the country. Not only does the government allow it, they encourage it by giving the illegal aliens access to programs that are paid for with tax dollars. Taxes that the illegal aliens didn’t pay.

If you ask the people who are doing this they will say it’s OK because it all done for the greater good. The question I have is what greater good are they talking about and who gave them the right to decide what the greater good is.
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 11:20:23 AM

CNN on Verizon....

Next question....do you believe the Patriot Act trumped personal privacy of American Citizens in the name of protecting us from terrorists?
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 7:35:53 AM

Our federal government is relentlessly expanding. More and more of our population are receiving entitlements and cannot support themselves. The ability of the state to monitor our lives through technology is destroying our liberty. Some refuse to believe we would ever abandon our constitution but we are doing it willingly.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 6:55:51 AM

so - - - is the lack of posting from the extreme libs on here reason to belive they too agree with this topic?
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 6:19:14 AM

First a correction The United States is Republic not a democracy and yes I don't believe our rights are being destroyed on the road to dictatorship, I know our rights are being destroyed on the road to a dictatorship.
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mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jun 6, 2013 4:57:06 AM

Report: Feds getting phone records of all Verizon customers

6-6-13

Yes.When I see a continuing array of articles in the news from both liberal and conservative sources that are similar to the news article referenced above, I feel that our freedoms and rights are being eroded. The Patriot Act was not intended to scrutinize everyone, and we see this administration attempting to do just that.
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 6:22:27 PM

"Men may always be too cautious to commit alarming and glaring iniquities; but they, as well as systems, are liable to be corrupted by slow degrees."

The Founders' Constitution
Volume 1, Chapter 13, Document 23
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/v1ch13s23.html
The University of Chicago Press

Storing, Herbert J., ed. The Complete Anti-Federalist. 7 vols. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1981.
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Sounds right....sneak up on us slowly and tell us the loss of rights is for the greater good of all. All of a sudden we find, we lost our basic rights and wonder where in the world did they go.

( for example...take freedom of speech for the press)
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 4:40:29 PM

It is only natural as a part of expanding population and technology that new laws are created to keep up with the times and the increased density of more people in a fixed-sized nation.

Those who are prone to hate the government will call this an erosion of rights and freedoms.

Small government proponents are firmly in control in Louisiana. They looked at abolishing corporate and personal State income taxes. They have the power to do that. They could make their government smaller to reflect the loss of revenue.

But they couldn't think of any part of that government which they could eliminate.

Apparently they found that their government was already as small as it could be!

For an article discussing the story go here:

Turns Out Government Is Already Small Enough!

Imagine that.

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 6/5/2013 4:41:06 PM EST]
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florida1541
Veteran Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 3:42:54 PM

I agree with fly
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florida1541
Veteran Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 3:41:04 PM

great
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 3:40:42 PM

Yes I firmly believe that our rights as free people are being usurped by the govts. That includes federal, state and local!

It is becoming more apparent every day that the people presently elected have only one goal - to stay in power and grease the skids for their successor to stay in power.

A long time ago I was told or read that freedom is not free. 48 years ago I volunteered to serve my country to preserve those freedoms we all enjoy. 75, 96 and 150 years ago relatives did the same thing.

In order to enjoy rights and freedoms they must be balanced by the people accepting and faithfully executing duties and responsibilities.

TANSTAAFL. The more the govt does for us the less people think they need to do for themselves and the more they become slaves to the govt largesse.

Freedom is not free - it must be earned and paid for. Some of us have paid the ultimate price that others retain their freedoms. If you want to exercise the rights of a citizen you must accept and deal with the responsibilities of a citizen. Stand on your own two feet and take responsibility for your own actions is a start and end for it. We need to stop demanding that the govt take care of us. Its not their job!
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florida1541
Veteran Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 3:40:40 PM

gteat post
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 2:37:35 PM

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. 1

[1] This text should be immediately recognized and requires no reference. This footnote is only here in the event someone believes the author wrote it. :)
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jun 5, 2013 2:10:09 PM

I get the impression we are being pushed as to how much of this eroding of our rights we will accept.
Its becoming clear that with each subsequent election the electorate demonstrates that they just don't care anymore about our rights and freedoms and are willing to let the erosion continue to the next level.
To what extent the government will continue its overreach is still unclear.
As long as the people with designs on dismantling the Constitution continue to win elections there will be no end to it.
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