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Author Topic: Being poor is a choice. Back to Topics
oilpan4

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Virginia

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 10:43:51 AM

After years of denial I have come to the conclusion that being poor is a largely a personal choice, mainly due to lack of motivation to do anything.
I am done with lazy people who happen to be poor.

Latest case in point; while visiting my parents in Maine our town was cutting back trees encroaching on the paved road surface. Seeing this I informed people we know who own wood stoves, who have little or no fire wood (already stoped by for a visit) and who have trouble heating their homes every winter that a very large supply of free hard wood is on side of the road free for the taking. The town leaves it there, you can see rotted remnants of last time they cut along the road about 5 to 10 years ago.
There are absolutely no excuses for this one other than people being lazy.
Its all no more than 15 feet off the edge of the paved road, not like you have to go way back into the woods to get it.
Its young wood, every thing I have seen is small enough in diameter to go in a wood stove with out being split. The town was also nice enough to cut it short enough so that you don't need to recut 70% or 80% of it to fit length wise in most wood stoves.
Its no more than a 10 mile round trip for any of them, much less for most. None of them are employed, plus it was friday morning so its not like they have to go to work or find a job, they had the whole weekend and this past week. They all own at least one operational legal to drive pickup truck that is usually their daily driver. Most of them are my age or younger and are in no way disabled.
All that free wood is still just sitting there.
Several of them drive by the wood or that road almost daily.

Long story short, no one bothered to touch the wood and this coming winter they will all be whining on facebook, begging for money when they run out of home heating oil and have gathered no fire wood for their wood stoves.

I may go gather it up with my dads pickup, list it on CL and sell it my self. Just out of spite. Then brag about how much I sold it for on FB.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 12:55:36 PM

"There is just no fixing lazy and/or stupid. Pay day lenders are living proof that there is a sucker born every minute."

Many of our poor regions have somewhat of a pawn shop, welfare and disability economy - lots of deep discount grocery stores, buy here pay here car dealers, rent-to-own furniture/appliance/electronics businesses, pawn shops, buy/sell/trade shops, taxi services, low income slumlords, DSS/Section 8 slumlords, repossession agents, eviction specialists etc.

Some grocery stores in these regions have more foodstamp and WIC customer revenue than revenue from paying customers.

We have mostly HEAP and Emergency HEAP revenue from in these regions - over 80 percent in some regions.

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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 11:57:47 AM

mj: "Much of our service based economy thrives as undisciplined savers/spenders purchase goods/services they shouldn't, don't need, or can't afford - often with money they haven't earned, or haven't made yet."


There is just no fixing lazy and/or stupid. Pay day lenders are living proof that there is a sucker born every minute.


mudtoe
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 11:55:08 AM

The major things you have no choices in are birth, death and taxes (even many health issues and accidents are avoidable), most other things are choices.It often takes many poor people literally thousands, or tens of thousands of poor decisions to become, or remain poor.

Non action - choosing not to do the things necessary to improve your financial situation is a very bad choice, perhaps the worst of all bad choices.

That said, due to all the unmotivated, undisciplined people in the country there's more work and opportunity for the rest of us.

Much of our service based economy thrives as undisciplined savers/spenders purchase goods/services they shouldn't, don't need, or can't afford - often with money they haven't earned, or haven't made yet.

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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 11:24:09 AM

"MJames - reading you story makes me snicker. I think the last thing I bought in a convenience store was a sixpac of beer while we were on vacation over ten years ago.

I don't like to buy anything in those stores - the cost is just too high."

Two of our stores are actually cost competitive with many grocery stores due to the amount of competition, however we have excellent volume and higher margins on refrigerated water/beverages, ice, propane, ice-cream, prepared foods etc.

Further North there's not much competition, yet a robust seasonal resident and tourist trade, so our margins are much higher.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 11:09:56 AM

"Being lazy is always a choice. Being poor less so."

Agreed.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 10:34:31 AM

MJames - reading you story makes me snicker. I think the last thing I bought in a convenience store was a sixpac of beer while we were on vacation over ten years ago.

I don't like to buy anything in those stores - the cost is just too high.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 9:52:31 AM

"Being lazy is always a choice. Being poor less so "

Laziness favoring the poor is a lot like luck favoring the prepared.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 9:48:52 AM

This morning one of our convenience store customers was complaining about our prices for cookies (only 20% mark-up), then she buys 3 packs of cigarettes - $30 and $65 worth of scratch-off tickets.

She won $20, so she bought $20 worth of additional scratch-off tickets, then had two $5 winners, so she bought $10 more and played until she was broke.

We know her landlord who says she's currently being evicted for non payment of rent.

If I had to make a guesstimate, I'd say she spends more that double her rent monthly on on lottery tickets, scratch-off tickets, cigarettes, cookies, donuts, chips, coffee etc.

Yes, poverty is a choice for many...

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 7:47:11 PM

Fair enough Mike - you give all my liver to Mark and I will be glad to eat all your beans.....
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worryfree
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 7:16:32 PM

Being lazy is always a choice. Being poor less so
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 6:31:40 PM

Noseatbelt, Its funny you brought up farming. As a kid I spent two summers with my grandmother in rural Minnesota. She hooked me up with a job on a berry farm a friend of hers owned.

Without knowing it that was where I learned some of the most valuable lessons in my life. I learned what hard work was. I learned the value of the money I had to work hard to earn. I learned the importance of doing a good job when you are doing something. Because I was always on time and did work hard I was the youngest person they had running one of their tractors. That meant I didn’t have to traipse through the mud moving irrigation pipe. I also learned that when a storm hits you don’t sit and cry about it. You pull whatever you have left together and start over.
.
Four years later the army just reinforce these traits in me.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 6:01:24 PM

Going to change the subject - castigate me later....

I have been watching the news coverage of the storms in Oklahoma. My heart goes out to these people. Life can change almost instantly.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 6:00:27 PM

Fair enough Fly... just like to this day i cannot look at green beans without gagging.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:52:07 PM

I like organic liver and onions. My wife makes it with milk, butter and bacon.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:48:13 PM

NSB and WiMike - I have tried it fixed many ways. For some reason it brings out the gag reflex - don't ask me why.

As I said I have eaten a whole lot of things that most folks would wrinkle up their nose at but I just cant go liver.

I will gladly give it all to those who enjoy it....
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:45:14 PM

The majority of our poor relatives live in a region where the out of wedlock birth rates are around 60%, the High School graduation rate is around 60% plus they have the highest poverty rate and highest property tax rates in the state.
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:43:27 PM

That might be what she did, all I know is she could make liver taste good.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:28:45 PM

sgm, you are right, and for some segments of the population the percentage is even higher. These young women face an uphill battle trying to make a life for themselves and provide for young children at the same time.
I don't know where they get their advice from, but anyone who told them it is "okay" to go ahead and have babies before becoming a self-sufficient adult did them a terrible disservice.

I don't want to deflect this topic, but when young women find themselves pregnant they have a choice to make. I don't want to proclaim abortion as a realistic choice, but it is. The other choices are giving the baby up for adoption, or raising it to the best of your ability. Going through the trials and pain and expense of a pregnancy is not easy, just to give the baby up. Getting on various forms of public assistance and expecting society (the taxpayers) to shoulder the burden of financially providing for that baby is selfish and shortsighted. Getting married to the "father" would be the best outcome if they make it work. And one of them has a job.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:21:15 PM

Have you tried brining it for 20-30 min in some salt and sugar water?
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 4:13:01 PM

flyboy, several years ago, I farmed for an older couple, and they were always inviting me to eat with them. They loved liver, but the thing was, she had a way of cooking liver, that did away with the liver smell, and taste. I had eat with them several times, before I figured out I had been served liver, and didn't know it. I still can't stand liver, but I do wish I had asked her the secrete before she died.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 3:44:50 PM

MJames - I have put a whole lot of different things "in the pot" but I never could deal with liver. I have never been that hungry that I could force myself to eat liver in any way shape or form. I would rather eat hide soup or hoof stew.

Don't know why I just cant deal with it but there it is.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 3:24:34 PM

"Experience shows us that it is unwise to go about having children outside of marriage. The outcomes are not good. So it doesn't matter whether a person stumbled into that lifestyle via youthful indiscretion or noodled through to that conclusion, that marriage should not even exist, after years of "academic" contemplation, the wrong result is still the wrong result."

And tragically for us as a nation, over 40% of children are born to single moms each and every year. Terrible.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 3:07:29 PM

Some enterprising, motivated young buck with a 1ton chevy and 2 axle trailer swooped in and grabbed all the wood.
Seeing it all loaded on the truck and trailer like that makes me think he could get up to $200 for each truck-trailer load.
I'm sure he got at least 2 truck-trailer loads.
All I know is he was done by lunch time.
Not a bad for half a days work.

Guy with the 1ton and trailer, not poor...
Why? Because he bought a 1ton chevy and trailer, took care of it (both are far from new) and got off his but and brought to market a useful and indemand product or service.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 5/20/2013 3:12:55 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 2:24:33 PM

Experience shows us that it is unwise to go about having children outside of marriage. The outcomes are not good. So it doesn't matter whether a person stumbled into that lifestyle via youthful indiscretion or noodled through to that conclusion, that marriage should not even exist, after years of "academic" contemplation, the wrong result is still the wrong result.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 2:13:55 PM

"The proggies I mentioned decry the very existence of marriage."

Some do, sure.

"...but their lifestyles certainly fall along the philosophy of eschewing marriage altogether."

Just because a "proggie" decries the existance of marriage doesn't mean that they condone having children in a poor financial condition.

Check.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 2:03:17 PM

Actually, weasle, it takes a little bit of synthesis to see how the topics are related, and they certainly are.

The proggies I mentioned decry the very existence of marriage. The poor people who started having babies too soon in life might not have made such a public pronouncement, but their lifestyles certainly fall along the philosophy of eschewing marriage altogether.

Check.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 1:53:23 PM

"Of course, recently we have heard, during Gay Marriage debates, some proggies decry the very existence of marriage as somehow unnecessary and detrimental to the human condition. Such morons should be laughed, or if need be shouted, off their little soapboxes because they don't know what they are talking about."

You have managed to take a good point and ruin it by going so-far off topic.

Yes, it is far better economically to delay having children until you are in a position to do so financially. This should be looked at no differently than buying a car, etc.

Unfortunately you mixed in Gay Marraige debate items which have an entirely different conext and meaning than that which you just assigned (ridiculed).
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 1:42:51 PM

Venison has been my primary source of red meat most of my life. We've always had trouble giving it away to poor relatives as they prefer easy-to-prepare processed foods.

If it's not pre-prepared or can't be popped into a microwave or oven, they're generally not interested.They'll accept venison stew if we've prepared it for them.

Many hit up several different food banks and food distribution points for handouts, yet don't accept, or throw out steak, liver, pork, turkey and other things that require freezing, thawing, prep, cooking and clean-up.

They've thrown out many of the vegetables and fish we've given them as well, so we don't offer anymore.

They're pretty fussy about brands as well. Much of the food products they handout at the food banks and food distribution points are off brands which they don't eat, only eat a little, or throw out.

Much of the packaging is damaged, soon to be expired, or recently expired, so they'll toss it in the trash.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 12:54:44 PM

The phenomenon of youths starting families (in a strict sense, actually "having babies" is much more descriptive) too early in life as a predictor of future poverty is well-documented.
Here is a rundown:
Hysteria Over The "Risk" Of Being Poor
NYC Teen Pregnancy Ads Should Focus on Why Marriage Matters
Family Fact of the Week: Marriage Is the Greatest Weapon Against Child Poverty
Marriage: America’s Best Antidote to Child Poverty
Robert Rector on Poverty in American on Washington Journal
Poverty and Inequality rundown
Welfare and Welfare Spending

I could not find the exact study I was looking for, but the gist of it was how high the percentages were of people (women) who had children young would end up in poverty at some time in their lives. Delaying having children until being married and being age 25 moved those percentages down into low single-digits.

Of course, recently we have heard, during Gay Marriage debates, some proggies decry the very existence of marriage as somehow unnecessary and detrimental to the human condition. Such morons should be laughed, or if need be shouted, off their little soapboxes because they don't know what they are talking about.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 5/20/2013 1:00:08 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 12:49:19 PM

MJames - its obvious that they were not really hungry. There was a time in my earlier life when I was eating so much cottontail and Squirrel and other wild stuff that I thought a hot dog was a real treat.

The wild stuff was free for the trapping - the hot dog I had to pay for. I chose to use the limited dollars I had to pay off debt and ongoing bills.

We do need to help those who need help - but no one likes a freeloader.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 12:43:43 PM

This past winter one of our relatives said they were running low on food. They said they were starving.

Since I had 7 deer and tons of fish in my freezers, I offered them fish and venison, yet they turned down my offer.

I'm always amazed how many beggars are choosers.

No truly hungry person would turn down so much valuable protein.

The same poor relative turned down our offer of baby clothing, cribs, walkers, car seats, strollers, toys etc. Apparently our used stuff wasn't good enough for their kids.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 12:14:41 PM

"The guy ended up getting up and leaving. If he couldn't get free split wood, he wanted nothing. The laziness of some folks."

This is true of many folks, regardless of their income...
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 12:07:33 PM

I personally attempted to help a cousin's daughter get ahead in life.

I bought her a car, paid for her maintenance, insurance, repairs, registration and inspection, gave her a laptop, iPad and cell phone, paid for her internet service, got her a CNA job and private duty jobs, plus paid for her to attend a local community college to become a nurse.

She was doing really well, but started dating an unemployed, unemployable pothead loser, got pregnant, quit working her CNA job, dropped out of college and sold the car, laptop, iPad and other things I gave her.

Currently she's on welfare living in a slumlord rental expecting kid number 2. Father (sperm donor) number 2 is currently in jail for failure to pay child support, theft and assault on a female.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 11:26:08 AM

"Speaking of personal choices, the greatest poor personal choices most of our poor relatives have made was having multiple kids when they were young, single and/or unemployed/under-employed."

I wonder if there is any way to verify that because that is my observation as well. My son is about to get engaged but I told him that he needs to finish school first and then move on...and probably finish his Masters before deciding to have kids. Once the kids come it gets more and more difficult to finish school because "life" gets in the way.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 11:00:52 AM

We've had many of our single employees with kids quit due to daycare/transportation costs, hassles and timing.

Many can't work various hours, shifts, overtime, on-call, on-the-road hours due to transportation, daycare costs, availability and timing as well.

Many poor single females we know have never entered the labor market, or haven't returned to the labor market post pregnancy.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 10:52:07 AM

mj: "Speaking of personal choices, the greatest poor personal choices most of our poor relatives have made was having multiple kids when they were young, single and/or unemployed/under-employed. "


Yup, that's a killer as far as one's economic future is concerned, especially for very young women who are often left with a child to care for on their own after the father blows town. I know several women who started out their adult life (some weren't even an adult yet when they had their first child) that way and all but one are still poor to this day, decades later. Of the ones who are still poor about half of them have been on and off public assistance of one kind or another most of their lives.

mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 5/20/2013 10:53:32 AM EST]
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 10:27:59 AM

Speaking of personal choices, the greatest poor personal choices most of our poor relatives have made was having multiple kids when they were young, single and/or unemployed/under-employed.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 10:23:56 AM

I once had some trees taken down. It was a line of about 20 trees that were a wind-break back when the house used to be a farmer's field. The trees were diseased, mostly, and ended up having to be cut down. 3 of them fell during rainstorms on their own. Too dangerous to keep around. Anyway, we cut the wood up and listed it on CL. Some folks came by and got free logs. They had to split it themselves, but hey, it was free. I had split some of the wood (about 1/2 cord or so). One guy wanted to take all that wood and started piling it up. I had to tell him, no, that was my own splittings for my own fireplace. The logs (everything East of some point) were free for the takings. The guy ended up getting up and leaving. If he couldn't get free split wood, he wanted nothing. The laziness of some folks. We did have a few people who did take the logs and split them themselves. Two folks were using wood to heat their houses, and they benefitted tremendously.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 10:10:46 AM

"MJames- I heated my house with wood alone for more than 15 years. I had other heat sources (propane or electricity) but chose to go out and get firewood. Before that I lived in a home for a short time where the ONLY source of fuel for heating , cooking and water heating was firewood."

The home I grew up in had 2 wood burning stoves in it. My dad and I would go out on and cut so much firewood during the summer that we had a system and could fill up a pick up truck and have it split in about an hour. We would cut firewood on a Saturday morning and spend the afternoon on a lake or river fishing.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 10:09:23 AM

"For these people being poor is the result of life style choices."

Are there those to whom this applies? Of course, but to use it politically to cast a negative light is short-sighted and self-serving.

This opinion when used politically can ONLY be used to paint a majority of people in a certain segment with too broad of a brush stroke.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 9:28:03 AM

"MJ: Many job seekers have no transportation....
Around here, many companies that are building or moving make sure they are on a public transportation route, making their jobs available to people who don't drive or don't own cars."

Many regions are serviced by transit, however transit doesn't run the hours, days and shifts many start/finish work, plus many live in areas not serviced by transit.

We've had quite a few transit runs that were eliminated due to poor ridership numbers and/or budget cuts.

Many employers cull out workers without personal transportation an/or advertise must have reliable transportation.

Many jobs require use of a personal vehicles to drive to and between jobs as well.

Several of our relatives have been fired from jobs as transit, or taxi services have run late numerous times.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 9:21:00 AM

"MJ: single pane windows and n insulation in upstate New York?"

Yes, much of our housing stock is very old (1800s to Early 1900s) which hasn't been upgraded in decades.

Last week alone I serviced 2 1930s oil fired Thatcher Boilers and 2 Coal to oil burner conversion Octopus Gravity Furnaces.

Two of the homes were large 1800s homes totally uninsulated with high ceilings, tall single pane windows, fuse boxes, knob and tube wiring, 1950s kitchens/baths.

Our property taxes are so high in some regions ($40 to $50 plus per $1,000 assessed value) that many can't afford to make improvements to their home, plus have to apply for numerous welfare benefits to survive.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:50:12 AM

Oilpan: >>What do you want me to do, pick it up, cut it, stack for them?<<

Maybe they want the government to hire union workers to gather and deliver and split and stack the wood, and then feel good that they helped "create jobs"

MJ: single pane windows and n insulation in upstate New York? As the saying goes, ignorance can be cured with education but you can't fix stupid!

MJ: Many job seekers have no transportation....
Around here, many companies that are building or moving make sure they are on a public transportation route, making their jobs available to people who don't drive or don't own cars.

Being poor is a choice. Also, being poor is a mindset, a self-imposed cultural constraint.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:37:52 AM

"The first part of the problem is we can’t find qualified people. The first thing we do with any applicant is a background check. By law we can’t hire people who have committed certain criminal offenses. We require either a trade school or at least two years in the field. First when we tell the applicants that we run 24/7 365 and they will start out on 2nd or 3rd with midweek days off and that we also work all Holidays we end up with a lot of applicants who don’t call back. The second problem is over 50% of the people we interview can’t pass the pre-employment drug screen."

We have the same problems. In many local regions much of the population is unemployable as they can't pass background checks, drug testing, DMV checks, aptitude tests, physical fitness assessments, probationary periods etc.

Many job seekers have no transportation, no driver's license and they're unwilling to work various hours, second/third shift, overtime, weekends, holidays, out-of-town, on the road etc.

New hire washout is very high in many occupations as well. Many of our new hires at our warehouses quit the first hours, day, days or week.

Many leave for lunch and never come back.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:29:29 AM

When I see someone that's unsuccessful at numerous things they've attempted, Lack Of Discipline is generally the number one reason they fail.

Besides lacking discipline, most unsuccessful people are quitters that don't handle failure well. Most will quit after getting knocked down once or twice.

Most unsuccessful people also argue for their limitations - so they get to live with them.

Yet another trait of unsuccessful people is that they favor immediate and short term rewards vs long term rewards. The famous Marshmallow Experiment is a good example.Most of my successes are due to my budgeting/spending/saving/investment discipline, plus long term rewards have always been more important to me than immediate satisfaction.

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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:13:37 AM

Speaking of heating sources, in some regions well over 50% of our heating fuel customers - heating oil, kerosene and propane are HEAP and Emergency HEAP customers.

When they raised the income qualification limits and increased grants many that were paying for heating fuels applied for HEAP.

Since they have a safety net which pays for much of their heating fuel, many aren't motivated enough to cut, split, transport, handle and burn wood, nor make efficiency improvements to their homes, heat and hot water systems.

Much of our customer base has grossly oversized, grossly inefficient heating systems, no zoning, single pane windows, zero/little insulation etc.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 10:12:33 PM

I have to agree that for some being poor is a choice, or should I say the result of bad choices. The company I work for is looking for people. We start them out at about $21.00 an hour and they will top out at about $22.50 one year later. That comes out to about $46,000 We are having such a hard time finding people we start ours out at 90% union scale and in one year we top them out.

The first part of the problem is we can’t find qualified people. The first thing we do with any applicant is a background check. By law we can’t hire people who have committed certain criminal offenses. We require either a trade school or at least two years in the field. First when we tell the applicants that we run 24/7 365 and they will start out on 2nd or 3rd with midweek days off and that we also work all Holidays we end up with a lot of applicants who don’t call back. The second problem is over 50% of the people we interview can’t pass the pre-employment drug screen. We are in a safety sensitive field. Even the pro marijuana people would probably object to the people who work for me being high. The equipment we have is specked specifically for us and we have very aggressive preventative maintenance program, so we run the new employees through a familiarization course. The course lasts six weeks. Of the typical six to eight people that enter the course we lose one or two because they decide they don’t like the work or can’t make it to work on time on a regular basses. I personally have friends in the field that I have tried to get to come to work for us who are making considerably less than what we pay. Some won’t put down the pot and others won’t work nights or on weekends for a few years until they can move to a better shift.

In the ten years I have been in management I have had to fire three people. Two for attendance and one for being drunk on the job.

For these people being poor is the result of life style choices.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 9:49:52 PM

"undisciplined when it comes to budgeting, spending, saving and investing.-----They've pi$$ed away all the cash we've given them, blown all the money/assets they've inherited, blown every opportunity (we've served them on silver platters) and sold or destroyed anything of value we've given them - homes, vehicles, tools, computers, furniture, appliances etc".

Same thing going on here.
I understand and we could do a whole nother post on this subject.

I think the liberals and democrats (in this situation) just ignore this behavior and even seem to encourage or at least enable it.

If these people are allowed to spend their money on "cigarettes, beer, liquor, weed, take-out, delivery, soda, candy, snacks, energy shots/drinks, pre-paid cell phones/minutes, upper tier cable/broadband, gaming consoles, games, LCD/LED televisions, rent-to-own furniture/appliances/electronics, tattoos, tanning, lottery tickets, scratch-off tickets, casino gambling, OTB, taxis, pets, pet food - to much waste to list".
And can always depend on other peoples money to survive when they need food, heating oil or pay the power bill then they will never change their ways.

MarkJames nailed it.

Looks like the liberals have jumped ship on this one.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 8:30:09 PM

MJames- I heated my house with wood alone for more than 15 years. I had other heat sources (propane or electricity) but chose to go out and get firewood. Before that I lived in a home for a short time where the ONLY source of fuel for heating , cooking and water heating was firewood.

I used to help my neighbors who were not as able to get wood to have enough to heat with. The fact that people will not even pick up 'free' wood to heat with and demand govt help is an abomination. If they are capable of getting their won wood and demand the gubbiment help them - I say let them enjoy the cold.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Points:45,820
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: May 19, 2013 6:18:34 PM

Speaking of wood, it's difficult to give wood away unless it's cut to length, split and delivered. No I'm not kidding.

I've run into this issue so many times that I have my trees delivered to a customer that sells/delivers firewood.
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