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eldiablopoco

Champion Author
Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 10:03:20 PM

Are people downplaying the fact that government workers are committing treason?
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 3:52:02 PM

I appologize. It seem that you were looking for someone to be accused of the crime and that was not the intent. The topic is suppose to bring about how information is being leaked out of government offices un-filterd by government workers in a manner that causes unrest. The climate suggest that the monitors are downplaying that fact and the people ignore that fact because the current climate has thrusted us all into keeping a close eye on the politicians.

The blurp in the AP tapping was the fact that government workers were leaking classified documents to the AP. [L=http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/14/text deleted pertaining to leaked classified documents[/L]
Wikileaks was a huge leakage of classified information. However, the spin is that the people doing these acts are "whistle-blowers". They have been deemed "whistle-blowers" as a means of not vilifying them and abstaining them for their actions in the eyes of the people. And our Congress is the "ring master" in this "circus", acting just as astonished as the crowd when the "lion" lashes out at the "lion tamer" as if they didn't know what was to come. With all of the different committees, it is hard to believe that they had no idea of what was happening in Benghazi, at the IRS, and with the AP. Congress is selling us a future election because they failed to sell us the past one.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 2:52:26 PM

Im not trolling i just wanted to know what you were talking about. Re read your original post. There were no specifics on what you wanted to start a topic about. Nothing describing about the crime or the people involved just un-named government workers are commiting treason. The OP couldnt have been more vague.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 12:10:52 PM

now i understand... you were never specified which government workers you were talking about.

Is this what trolling looks like? You want specifics in an ongoing investigation of something the government would probably not release until they have solid evidence. Yet, for a fact we know that the DOJ has been plagued with finding individuals who have been relinquishing sensitive information that was not intended for public view. an example

This is the same type of trolling trying to link Obama to the DOJ trying tapping the AP. Apparently, Obama gave an explicit directive to the DOJ to do so? Can anyone provide us with that communication? Wait, with the IRS targeting of Conservative groups for additional tax exemption scrutiny? Does anyone have any direct communication from Obama linking the President to this scandal?
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 10:05:50 AM

eld, get back to us with that list of those that have committed treason. Btw "Unnamed" is not considered a person.

101, "letting illegal aliens go unpunished". Btw you forgot the deadbeat employers that hired them. But by mentioning deadbeat employers you might offend many con party contributors.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 10:43:58 PM

You mean by letting ILLEGAL aliens go unpunished?
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 2:37:03 PM

AHHH ok....

now i understand... you were never specified which government workers you were talking about.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 2:15:04 PM

You still haven't said what government workers are committing treason?

Isn't that the reason the DOJ was listening in on AP phone calls. To catch government workers releasing classified information to the media.

WikiLeaks

[Edited by: eldiablopoco at 5/19/2013 2:19:18 PM EST]
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 12:00:03 PM

Vague charges by vague people.
Vague ~ unclear, uncertain and not well defined. What is not so vague is the desperation of the losers in the last election.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 11:29:33 AM

You still haven't said what government workers are committing treason?
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 7:48:38 AM

Why don't you like the definition provided by the Constitution?

First, the Constitution was not a well written and/or distributed document. Here is an example:

As passed by the Congress:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

These two sentences have different meanings and application. Thus, it leads to a second problem. People's interpretation of what is meant by the Constitution as it affects their individual plight.

Because of the room for interpretation, you will continue to see Democrats push a bill and Republicans hate it, then Republicans push a similar bill and the Democrats hate it (note, this application can be applied in its alternate form with the Republicans initializing the Bill). If people accepted the meaning of the word as it was defined then things would proceed better. A kid once thought to be a dunce asked his parent to go out side and ride his bike. He said, "Mom can I go outside and ride my bike." The mom responded, "No, you are on punishment for riding your bike in the street." A few minutes later, the mom found the kid outside riding a bike. The mom angered by what she saw yelled to the boy, "Didn't I say that you could not ride your bike." The boy responded, "Yes, you told me I couldn't ride my bike. This is your bike."
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 12:06:30 AM

"It's not my definition. It is one provided by the dictionary."

Why don't you like the definition provided by the Constitution?
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 12:01:10 AM

I guess that means it is our definition. Maybe if we start applying the laws as we define them according to the meanings of the words se wouldn't have these problems
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 11:59:40 PM

Eldiablo, fortunately your definition of treason would never stand up in court. What part of the constitutional definition of treason is wrong in your eyes?

It's not my definition. It is one provided by the dictionary.
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 11:23:59 PM

Eldiablo, fortunately your definition of treason would never stand up in court. What part of the constitutional definition of treason is wrong in your eyes?

[Edited by: jayrad1957 at 5/18/2013 11:25:22 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 10:13:29 PM

Oh you mean like what Jane Fonda and her fellow anti war people did during the late 60's to early 70's?

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 5/18/2013 10:14:14 PM EST]
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 9:34:31 PM

AS flyboy stated.........





what workers doing what specific actions that might qualify for this accusation?
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 8:41:08 PM

Treason by definition is stated as:

trea┬Ěson tree-zuhn] noun
1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.

2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.

3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

Aid and comfort as explained is:

To render assistance or counsel. Any act that deliberately strengthens or tends to strengthen enemies of the United States, or that weakens or tends to weaken the power of the United States to resist and attack such enemies is characterized as aid and comfort.

Article 3, section 3, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution specifies that the giving of aid and comfort to the enemy is an element in the crime of Treason. Aid and comfort may consist of substantial assistance or the mere attempt to provide some support; actual help or the success of the enterprise is not relevant.

Therefore, I the relinquishing of "top secret information" to the media would be merely supporting to weaken the ability of the U.S. to protect its civilians from outside threats. An example of this would be what tools the U.S. is actively utilizing to combat the war on terrorism or how the U.S. defends its embassies.

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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 3:08:05 PM

I've never understood why republicans like to throw around treason like its a catch all crime for any government worker. As Jayrad showed treason has a very high bar set for proof and is a response for a very specific crime. It also has a very harsh penalty.

There are lots of laws on the books and lots of different laws people can be tried under. Yet somehow it always comes directly to treason do not pass GO do not get a lawyer, and bypasses the numerous other laws that would be much more appropriate for a crime of this nature.

If you have some specific evidence that this is a treasonous crime as defined by the constitution i would like to hear it. Otherwise simmer down cowboy.
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 2:54:20 PM

Was Dick Cheney working there/
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worryfree
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: May 18, 2013 1:12:26 AM

Maybe the AP leakers committed treason.
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 11:05:31 PM

Article 3 Section 3 of the Constitution defines treason as the following:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

Explain to me how government workers are committing treason.

[Edited by: jayrad1957 at 5/17/2013 11:05:55 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 10:49:51 PM

little debil - what workers doing what specific actions that might qualify for this accusation?
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 10:42:41 PM

What needs to happen is a liberal application of rope.
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