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Author Topic: Should there be a 'internet sales tax'? Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Utah

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Message Posted: May 7, 2013 3:25:16 PM

On Monday, the Senate approved a bill that would enable states to collect sales tax on merchandise bought on the internet, "under current law, states can only collect from companies that are physically located within their borders."
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I feel that the government should leave the internet alone. This is only a ploy by those who push for ever more taxes to get more and more. They are aided and abetted by those few large corporations who want the playing field tilted ever more towards them.

When and if some other state does anything to help a business in a different state then maybe they should be paid for that help. Right now if I buy slippers from LLBean in Maine Utah taxpayers don't pay for their police and fire and transportation system. Why should we pay sales tax to them?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 5:08:53 PM

gocat I disagree - the small business is often their own worst enemy. They charge a higher price for the same product and provide poorer service on the products than I can buy over the 'net. Why should I get in my truck, drive 20+ miles, pay for fuel (that is taxed too) and then get a higher price and poorer service. Its much easier to sit on the 'puter and order what I want and have it delivered to my door for less than the hassle of buying at a brick and mortar store and have to pay taxes on top of it all.

Why should we force people to pay tax for the honor of doing business with someone else. The purpose of sales tax is to raise money for the local govt or state govt. They did nothing to earn that money. For the local business they provide the infrastructure and police and fire protections etc. What benefits does a business in Hong Kong derive from local taxes on their products they mail to folks here?

I prefer to do business locally. But when I get better products and service in less time by ordering over the 'net why should I then pay a tax that is supposed to be used locally? Doesn't make sense to me - unless its a new form of protectionism and just an excuse to tax folks more.

My state has state owned and run liquor stores. 20 miles away I can buy the same product for more than a third less. Is it any wonder why so many folks drive that 20 miles? The state taxes the living bejesus out of the product then charges sales tax on top of that. I will take steps to avoid paying taxes I don't have to at every opportunity I have.

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 5/19/2013 5:12:03 PM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 19, 2013 4:39:12 PM

I was recently looking for some items for my home - large items. I checked an on-line store, and a brick and mortar store. Even with CA's high taxes, the B&M in this case was about the same price, and they offered service. So I went with the real store. But I don't like going to a conventional store and getting soaked.

Example of that - I was looking for a watch strap (watch band) for a watch of mine. It is 25mm (about 1") between lugs. That's a pretty wide strap. Anyway, the little mom & pop jeweller wanted like $40 for that. WAY too expensive, the watch was only a ~$100 -$120 piece. Found the strap on line (through Amazon) for like $8 with shipping. IMHO, I'd have been stupid to go with mom & pop's place. The price was WAY too expensive, and theirs was of no better quality. I, for one, appreciate the on-line shopping experience. Without it, you'd be limited to your local area, in general.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 4:48:33 PM

PopcornPirate, you are confusing the issue by comparing distributors and retailers.
If the purchaser is not the end user, he is buying wholesale, and has tax numbers for his business. When he files his returns, he would do so exactly the same as he would with goods purchased from his local distributor of goods.
If he doesn't have a tax number, then he is deemed to be the end user.
Again, it isn't complicated. Recording the tax number for an internet sale, or phone sale, or over-the-counter sale, all the same process.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 11:12:05 AM

Fly, "who should we have helped" apparently the founding fathers decided not to spend American tax dollars on a war across the the Atlantic. I doubt if the founding fathers would think too much of subsidizing the the world's defenses today.

The only one being hurt by the internet free sales tax are small businesses but that does not seem to matter to some. Internet businesses are here to stay it is time for them to follow the same rules as local small businesses. If the internet business is located in Texas let the sales tax go to Texas. This ain't rocket science.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 10:21:23 AM

Speaking of keeping customers, I'm always amazed at how little managers and owners do to attract and keep customers.

We bend over backwards to attract/keep good customers as the customers, repeat customers and referrals often add up to big bucks long term, or over a lifetime.

When you lose 1 customer you often lose their family, friends, neighbors, co-workers etc.

Since we have a large family and thousands of customers, when we stop buying and/or badmouth a business it often costs them a fortune.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 9:55:22 AM

You would need to get a NY Tax ID number. NY would get the taxfrom you as that is where the customer is located. The tax would only be due if the customer was the end purchaser of the widget and wasn't buying it to be used as part of a larger product to be resold, and for which sales tax would be collected. If your widget customer is using widgets in a product he is manufacturing, HE would need the Tax ID number and would owe the tax in whatever state HIS customer is located.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 9:51:45 AM

I think i mentioned before that I was looking for bike tires. I couldn't find them here in LaLa land (obsolete sizes), so I had to buy on line. It was from a company in Buffalo, NY, if memory serves. Amazon and e-Bay are good things, IMHO. They're helping to keep the brick and mortar stores a bit more honest, too.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 9:39:47 AM

So.. Hypothetically.
I have a customer in New York that I sell a box of widgets ( I am the Widget Rep for Wigits-R-US )but sell under the name Widget World based out of Virginia.
I am buying the Widgets from Widget-R-US in Kansas. The Widgets are shipping direct to my customer in New York. I never see or touch the widgets & do not have a presents in New York or NY Tax ID#.
My company ( Widget World ) is less than $1 million in sales but Widgets-R-US has sales over $1 million.
My questions?
Who pays the actual sales tax?
Which state gets paid the sales tax.
If I do not have a NY Tax ID#...How does it get paid?

Can someone answer my questions?
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 17, 2013 8:49:24 AM

I try to shop locally for items and am even willing to spend a bit more to do so. However I'm brutal when it comes to bad service. I have loudly expressed EXACTLY why I'm leaving a restaurant and not returning when a manager fails to rectify a situation properly. I worked as a retail and sales manager for over a decade before I became a teacher, so I know what is possible and not possible when it comes to fixing something a waiter or sales clerk screwed up. Had dinner at P.F. Chang's last week and the waiter brought me out a salmon entree with my wife's dinner and explained that another waiter had mistakenly picked up and served my sea bass to a customer who had ordered the salmon. He said, "I didn't want you sitting without a meal while your wife ate her dinner, so we're giving you this dinner and the dinner you ordered will be ready in 15 minutes. I overheard the diner at the table across the aisle being offered the same free dinner, only with my entree. THAT is how you fix a mistake AND keep a customer.
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: May 15, 2013 6:47:21 PM

I mostly quit shoping in town years ago, lousy service, and items being out of stock, got to be a pain. They say it is to level the playing field, why don't they be honest, and admit it's just a excuse to milk more money out of consumers? If they honestly think, it will bring more people into brick and mortar stores, they might be in for a shock. I know I won't stop buying on line.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 15, 2013 6:37:08 PM

mj: "I'm amazed how businesses complain about the bad economy, yet they do things to drive away customers."


You did exactly the right thing: you voted with your feet and went somewhere else.


mudtoe
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 15, 2013 4:38:52 PM

I hear you Mark - yet the people pushing for ever more taxes just don't care what the unintended consequences will be. Their objective is to get more tax money coming to the coffers of BIG EVIL GOVERNMENT regardless of what else happens. They just don't care what else happens as long as more taxes are paid.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 15, 2013 8:08:53 AM

Had another bad brick and mortar experience the other day.

I tried to spend $180 at a local store, however when I went to checkout, the clerk said I couldn't get the discount without signing up for the store's discount card.

I put all my items back, then bought identical and similar items at Walmart and online for a savings of about $50.

I'm amazed how businesses complain about the bad economy, yet they do things to drive away customers.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 11, 2013 7:36:00 PM

Gocat - who should we have helped - the Royalists who helped us or the revolutionaries who didn't help us?

AC I agree with you. Very few of those who continually demand more - ever more - from someone else's pocket have a sense of requirements vs needs vs wants vs pure luxuries.
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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: May 11, 2013 7:35:51 PM

SemiSteve, >>It is just greedy for executives to be paid 500 times the average worker pay in their organizations. 100X should be the max. <<
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No Steve. You are once again way off base. Executive pay for private corporations are determined usually by the board of directors, who are elected by the shareholders of the corporation. You and those that think like you, have absolutely no say in the matter unless you are a shareholder.

May I suggest you buy some stock in a corporation and, should you disagree with their executive compensation or any other policy, write a stockholder proposal to the board offering your solution to what may or not be 'fair. '
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 11, 2013 7:19:36 PM

SemiSteve said: "But when the needs of our government are considered one understands there must be revenue. That is the wise view."

--But what are "needs" and what are "wants", and what are "nice to haves"? I think this is where our government, and to a large extent, our citizenry, have been very UNWISE. That has been a problem for the last 40 or so years. We overspend, well beyond our ability to collect revenue. That's not good.

Now, as to your 100X minimum wage for corporate execs, do you propose that extends to everyone? Would that include both public shareholder owned businesses, or would you also include privately owned businesses and sole proprietorships?

And as to that 4 weeks of vacation, how so? That' is a privilege I EARNED through longevity with my former company. Why should workers necessarily get an entire month off with pay? Why shouldn't they earn it? I agree that 2 weeks plus your 10 paid holidays plus a few more is a little skimpy (though it does add up to 4 weeks off). But what of it? If a company doesn't have a vacation policy you want, and you're not willing to live with it, or negotiate another week or two, then don't work there.

My relatives in Europe have this - everyone gets 5 weeks automatic off with DOUBLE pay. However, this isn't necessarily to be "generous". It's actually a form of company paid government social welfare program. They make people take off so long so that they need more workers. It increases the number of people needed by roughly 8%.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 10:50:17 AM

green, I do not believe the founding fathers considered "common safety" to mean subsidizing the world's defense. France was America's #1 ally during the American revolution. When France needed American support during their revolution we did not get involved.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 10:25:42 AM

If the internet sales tax goes through it won't be but a day or two before the businesses in the high tax blue states start complaining that they are still at an unfair disadvantage because they have to pay state taxes and pay in state labor rates, and will start pushing for some sort of surtax on internet purchases.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 5/10/2013 10:29:09 AM EST]
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 9:41:33 AM

In a way I'd like to see an internet tax just to get the brick and mortars to stop blaming others for their poor performance due to poor - selection, quantities, restocking, seasonal stocking, service, hours/days of operation and ultra-high mark-up.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 9:33:36 AM

Only if you want less competition, higher prices and fewer choices.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 8:15:44 AM

Yet another brick and mortar issue recently. I called several auto parts stores about an auto part last week.

Only 1 "supposedly" had the part in stock, so I sent an employee on a 60 mile round trip only to find the part wasn't in stock.

The auto parts store manager says they can get the part the next day, so we ordered the part. The next day I called and they said the part was out of stock at their supplier, so it would take 5 business days to get the part.

I ended up ordering the part online.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 8:07:31 AM

"In my industry, brick and mortars traditionally laid people away making 40% markup on everything -- until the internet came along and sold it for 20%. Businesses whined (because the golden goose was gone). Now it is more like 10% as time has progressed."

The other day I needed 2 proprietary cables. Had I bought them at a local brick and mortar I'd be looking at 1-1/2 hours of wasted/lost travel time, risk of accidents, risk of vehicle damage and over $60 dollars between purchase price, 8% sales tax, gas and vehicle wear/tear etc.

I bought 6 cables online for $20 shipped to my door. Six cables with shipping were less than the price of 1 cable at a brick and mortar.
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 2:42:53 AM

I do hate the thought of a VAT because Washington would up it to painful levels "well we havent raised it in a long time, you arent paying enough"

Rumble, yes, the Canadian thing is a small issue but I see more in my industry competing against me.

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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 11:50:13 PM

Hey Steve,
This is going to be a long reply. Read all the way through, you might be surprised. ;-)

“I also agree that there should be virtually no government dole.”

Agreed.

”Those who cannot support themselves should be offered three hots and a cot at a 'poor house' with no privacy. That should sufficiently motivate them to go out and find work.”

Or how about term limits on their benefits? Say, no more than five years. That would allow for re-training if laid off from a defunct job classification.

“But there must be work at reasonable pay for them to find.”

Agreed.

“So the minimum wage should be raised and tied to inflation. And there should be a minimum percentage of average worker pay vs executive pay for large corporations. It is just greedy for executives to be paid 500 times the average worker pay in their organizations. 100X should be the max.”

Sounds reasonable.

“And we should tax the rich and the big corporations heavily and use the money to pay down the debt and create more government projects; which will require many workers.”

This we may diverge on some. I believe in the flat income tax with no allowances. Of course I also think the Federal Government should ONLY be allowed to tax the STATES based on land mass and population and international trade. This isn’t perfect, but what is?

“We should be developing more alternative energy projects, have R&D on it, and build our smart grid to conserve power.”

The Government or private citizens/corporations?

“We need to combat global warming. A lot of jobs can be created to address that. Much as we took on the goal to get to the moon, we should take on the goal to reduce carbon output.”

The United States has reduced it’s global carbon footprint drastically since I was a little kid. The problem is the other parts of the world that is still using Mother Earth as their private cesspool.

“We need to end the drug war and the tremendous waste of money and lives. Illegal drugs create the black market and drug lords, makes smuggling profitable. All drugs should be legal and regulated so we control who gets them, not drug dealers. Abusers should be treated at rehab centers which will be much cheaper than prisons for profit.”

I agree that the drug war is being waged from the wrong angle.

“We should build more lanes for many roads and better bridges.”

Agreed, there are areas of major congestion. However, many of these locations are due to lack of land to expand the infrastructure. Eminent Domain can really hurt the little guy. I believe we should have a Mag-Lev train system running coast to coast along the I-10, I-40 and I-90 corridors.

“Every worker in America should be guaranteed 4 weeks paid vacation and paid sick leave.”

The military gets this and I sure do miss it. So, REALLY AGREED!

“The health care industry needs to be results-oriented instead of profit-based. Big insurance needs to be cut down to size. (or eliminated from the health care world) That is a total rip-off.”

Something needs to be done to limit the expenses charged. Insurance seems to be at the bottom of a lot of it.

“Big pharma has grown far too large and powerful. Much of that should be taken over by the government.”

I don’t know about the government taking over the pharmaceuticals’ arena. But! (Write this down, you might not see me say it again) I *agree* with Obama on the limiting/reduction of pharmaceutical patents. Twenty years is waaaay too long for an exclusive patent on life saving drugs. Seven as Obama wanted is a little too short; ten years would be, IMHO, the perfect length of time for the company to recoup its R&D and make some profit.

“There are so many people looking for good jobs and so much work to be done.”

True

“There should be a tax on every Wall street transaction; which would generate tons of revenue and curtail dangerous micro-trading.”

Haven’t thought about this, so no comment.

“Imported products should be allowed only if the source nations adhere to American regulations and worker safety standards or taxed heavily.”

If the company is U.S. based then OSHA and the Department of Labor should have jurisdiction over the foreign operations.

“Big American corporations should be given tax breaks for creating American jobs”

Agreed

“and double or triple taxed for creating overseas jobs.”

Might chase some companies off.

“And that's just for starters. Let's sit and have a beer sometime and I'll tell you some really radical ideas.”

I don’t drink beer, sorry. I do drink some mean hard stuff though. Would like to take you out to a range and show ya ‘black guns’ aren’t evil. ;-) Btw, guns and alkyhol don’t mix at my house.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 9:36:21 PM

I also agree that there should be virtually no government dole. Those who cannot support themselves should be offered three hots and a cot at a 'poor house' with no privacy. That should sufficiently motivate them to go out and find work. But there must be work at reasonable pay for them to find. So the minimum wage should be raised and tied to inflation. And there should be a minimum percentage of average worker pay vs executive pay for large corporations. It is just greedy for executives to be paid 500 times the average worker pay in their organizations. 100X should be the max.

And we should tax the rich and the big corporations heavily and use the money to pay down the debt and create more government projects; which will require many workers. We should be developing more alternative energy projects, have R&D on it, and build our smart grid to conserve power.

We need to combat global warming. A lot of jobs can be created to address that. Much as we took on the goal to get to the moon, we should take on the goal to reduce carbon output.

We need to end the drug war and the tremendous waste of money and lives. Illegal drugs create the black market and drug lords, makes smuggling profitable. All drugs should be legal and regulated so we control who gets them, not drug dealers. Abusers should be treated at rehab centers which will be much cheaper than prisons for profit.

We should build more lanes for many roads and better bridges. Every worker in America should be guaranteed 4 weeks paid vacation and paid sick leave.

The health care industry needs to be results-oriented instead of profit-based. Big insurance needs to be cut down to size. (or eliminated from the health care world) That is a total rip-off. Big pharma has grown far too large and powerful. Much of that should be taken over by the government.

There are so many people looking for good jobs and so much work to be done.

There should be a tax on every Wall street transaction; which would generate tons of revenue and curtail dangerous micro-trading.

Imported products should be allowed only if the source nations adhere to American regulations and worker safety standards or taxed heavily. Big American corporations should be given tax breaks for creating American jobs and double or triple taxed for creating overseas jobs.

And that's just for starters. Let's sit and have a beer sometime and I'll tell you some really radical ideas.

And by all means: Every internet sale should generate tax revenue! Otherwise State budgets are going belly-up, workers and services are being slashed, jobs are being lost, government dependency is increasing and so is the homeless population.
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 8:51:13 PM

"Taking care of the needy and helping people improve their lot in life is all part of 'promoting the general welfare.' That's in the Constitution"

Yes, the general welfare is in the Constitution and if you used the synonyms 'common safety' for 'general welfare' it would mean something completely different wouldn't it?

I don't believe it was written into the Constitution to mean 'welfare' as we know it today.

In the early days of the United States, the colonies imported the British Poor Laws
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 8:23:48 PM

e-jeepin - don't even think of a VAT. That would really let the fox in the henhouse. Congress (both state and national) would constantly be upping it just a little...
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 7:15:42 PM

AC-302: "SemiSteve complained (and with some reason) "Well the government can't run on no revenue." and also "Something has got to give."

--Well, the US government used to fund itself only in import duties for, oh, probably the first 100 years + of it's existance. It seems to me what has to give is the number of services governments provide. Government isn't our mommy and our nanny. It is there to adjudicate disputes and keep the peace. IT isn't and shouldn't be there, for example to hand out free telephones or cell phones. It also shouldn't be there to hand out free housing and free food to non-citizens (or more correctly, I mean ILLEGAL ALIENS). "

Import duties were isolationist. That was enough when we had no standing army, no air force, no NASA, no NOAA, no pollution or worker safety regulations, no assistance for the poor, little law enforcement, little fire protection, minimal public education, no FBI, no CIA, no NSA, no FCC, no SEC, and we didn't appoint ourselves the police of the world.

Taking care of the needy and helping people improve their lot in life is all part of 'promoting the general welfare.' That's in the Constitution. But there is nothing in there about us being xenophobic.

Government's role has expanded to meet the demands of our evolving civilization, over-population and a truer realization of the vision of our founders.

It has to be paid for. And that means revenue.

I have no problem with internet sales but there MUST be taxes collected!

If people are only thinking of themselves of course they don't want to pay a tax. That's the selfish view.

But when the needs of our government are considered one understands there must be revenue. That is the wise view.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 6:52:22 PM

"Canadian sellers are primarily purchasing from U.S. based warehouses and shipping to U.S. address."

Then there is absolutely no problem in implementing the proper sales tax at the point of shipping just like US shipping from a US-based entity is there?
There are far more large US sellers shipping to Canadians, such as LLBean, JC Whitney, etc, than there are large Canadian sellers shipping to Americans.
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 11:22:39 AM

Mark makes some really good points.

In my industry, brick and mortars traditionally laid people away making 40% markup on everything -- until the internet came along and sold it for 20%. Businesses whined (because the golden goose was gone). Now it is more like 10% as time has progressed.

I am planning to evolve into brick and mortar and my business plan will still operate on a 10% final margin. Amazon collects 12% from me now, I will apply that to overhead when I evolve into a storefront. old school brick and mortars either learned how to evolve on lower margins or went out of business.

I don't care if sales tax is implemented as long as its fair and across the board. However, a bunch of former trial lawyer Senators wont be able to do it as they have no clue how retail works. If we could get all States to drop sales tax in favor of say a 6% VAT -- that would work. The Feds could have 1% while the States get the rest. Total revenue would be higher. Resellers like myself write one check to the IRS.

However, you will never get all 50 States to buy into this -- so a mute point.

Rumble : Canadian sellers are primarily purchasing from U.S. based warehouses and shipping to U.S. address. Many also have dual entities on each side of the border (no duties).

What the Senate dummies are proposing is to give Canadian companies a license to annihilate the rest of us. They don't know this yet because they are clueless to the total scope of internet retail and its competitive nature.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 11:01:45 AM

Our sales taxes of 8% plus just add insult to injury as you're paying tax on the ultra-high mark-up.

The brick and mortar tax (high markup), plus poor - selection, quantities, restocking, seasonal stocking and service in addition to the cost of travel, wasted time etc are why many shop online.Not only do we have to buy more and more online due to the above mentioned issues, but we often have to buy directly from manufacturers cutting out many middlemen in the process.

Many businesses we deal with say "We can order it" which is quite annoying. If we wanted to order something we wouldn't waste our time driving to a brick and mortar to place an order.

Many brick and mortars don't really stock much, or have sufficient quantities, so you have to call them in advance, then wait for them to ship orders from warehouses, other brick and mortars or suppliers.
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randog
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 10:56:47 AM

Are they also proposing to tax the free shipping, since it saves on trips to the store and thus, the cost of gas, which is taxed at a higher rate than sales tax?
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 10:52:10 AM

Fly, tax has not been a factor in my decision to "N O T" buy merchandise in many decades. Again my concern is the unfair edge given to internet business. Taxes have been around forever so I don't buy into your "harming business" argument. Your problem is that "You" are against any tax unless it funds a govt project you support. I think we can all make that argument.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 10:38:28 AM

gocat - maybe its a sign that the local taxes are so high that they are harming business and should be reduced.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 10:25:44 AM

Like it or not internet businesses were getting an unfair edge on local businesses. If paying a sales tax puts too heavy of a burden on me I probably should go without.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 10:14:37 AM

SemiSteve complained (and with some reason) "Well the government can't run on no revenue." and also "Something has got to give."

--Well, the US government used to fund itself only in import duties for, oh, probably the first 100 years + of it's existance. It seems to me what has to give is the number of services governments provide. Government isn't our mommy and our nanny. It is there to adjudicate disputes and keep the peace. IT isn't and shouldn't be there, for example to hand out free telephones or cell phones. It also shouldn't be there to hand out free housing and free food to non-citizens (or more correctly, I mean ILLEGAL ALIENS).
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 2:25:04 AM

"Guess what, there are Canadian sellers who do very well selling to American ship-to addresses! (and wont pay tax to U.S. States)."

And why isn't US Customs collecting tax on taxable items coming from Canada through the mail? Canadian customs collects tax on taxable items coming from the US (or anybody else) through the mail. We don't pay the taxes on taxable items, we don't get the package, it is handled by a contracted brokerage firm right at the post office.
Non-taxable items have certificates, and are subject to inspection to ensure the sender has filled them out accurately.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 5/9/2013 2:27:35 AM EST]
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 2:06:10 AM

Here is the reverse way to look at this. I have to offer "we pay your sales tax" to buyers in my home State. If I didn't, they buy from my competitor out of State, I earn zero. So I pay the tax and make something vs. nothing.

My State demands sales tax collected at garage sales! Every time a car changes owners -- sales tax! How many times should the State collect a tax on the same item resold over and over?

The internet tax will be a quarterly nightmare for me -- Downloading dozens of State forms and writing checks to States!

Guess what, there are Canadian sellers who do very well selling to American ship-to addresses! (and wont pay tax to U.S. States).

While I am filling out forms, outsiders will be outselling me.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 10:11:37 PM

Ok herbie - you can have your 50% tax - but it only applies to Canucks.
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herbiepopnecker
Champion Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 9:30:06 PM

Put a flat 50% federal tax o Internet sales. Then the states don't have to worry about it.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 8:07:44 PM

Rumble said - "Did your state (or municipality) not build the road on which the truck travels to deliver the goods you think you should be able to evade tax on? Does your state (or municipality) not provide the police, fire, or ambulance that answers the 911 calls you may, unfortunately, have to make someday?"

Well as others have said the roads are primarily paid for by fuel taxes so that argument is moot.

Then the rest is paid for by local property taxes which are high enough now. Ambulance is a private company who is only supported by what they charge customers.

I say again the state did nothing to merit being paid sales tax for something that is purchased out of state.

Right now more and more stuff is available from overseas via the internet. This will grow if they tax the sellers here.

Instead of raising taxes maybe its high time they start looking at reducing taxes. As Mudtoe said - its time govt goes on a diet.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 7:43:30 PM

I don’t think that any one should get a free pass when it comes to paying their fare share. The tax should be collected in either the state the company is based in or in the state where the costumer lives. Another option is that the two states split the tax.

No matter how it is done the tax needs to be paid. Otherwise it gives the internet business an unfair advantage and hurts state revenues.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 7:29:18 PM

Well the government can't run on no revenue.

States used to get sales tax revenue. If sales go more to the internet then States are trying to operate on less revenue as they constantly increase their populations. That ain't gonna work.

Something has got to give.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 6:54:24 PM

rs: "If the argument is that your state should be able to provide full services while needed income is CUT because somebody doesn't feel like paying local taxes, it doesn't wash."


I would be ecstatic if my state provided fewer services and collected less in taxes. The more government is starved of money the better IMHO, because it is already too big, too intrusive, and a great deal of the money they already receive is wasted. Time for government to go on a starvation diet.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 5/8/2013 6:55:05 PM EST]
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 6:49:09 PM

If I heard right, won't it cost online stores extra, a lot in some cases, to collect the tax? How will the government level the playing field for them?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 6:37:57 PM

If the argument is that your state should be able to provide full services while needed income is CUT because somebody doesn't feel like paying local taxes, it doesn't wash.
The law has been passed, you want to buy a tv, whether you buy it locally, or on-line from another state, you are going to pay your fair share of taxes.
And for those that worry about mom-and-pop stores, they are protected by the clause that says stores with under a certain limit of out-of-state sales don't have to collect out-of-state taxes.
Large internet retailers like LLBean and Amazon will be collecting taxes, and rightfully so.
There is absolutely no logical reason to allow people to evade tax by purchasing large items on-line, the only reasons are personal and selfish IMHO.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 5/8/2013 6:40:29 PM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 6:26:52 PM

rs: "Did your state (or municipality) not build the road on which the truck travels to deliver the goods you think you should be able to evade tax on?"


If the truck owner buys fuel in the state it does business in, then he or she is paying for their share of the road maintenance. Likewise if the online retailer pays said trucking company to deliver packages to a state where they don't collect sales taxes, they are still paying for their fair share of the road maintenance because some of the money they pay the trucking company goes to buy fuel.


mudtoe
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 5:58:02 PM

"My state did nothing to earn that tax"

Did your state (or municipality) not build the road on which the truck travels to deliver the goods you think you should be able to evade tax on? Does your state (or municipality) not provide the police, fire, or ambulance that answers the 911 calls you may, unfortunately, have to make someday?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 4:29:33 PM

Tim - don't feel bad - when I came home from the service I had a motorcycle that had a Japanese license on it. I wanted to get a Minnesota plate on it. They demanded that I pay sales tax on it based on the 'new price' in that state. I bought it wholesale in Japan. The price I paid for it was near what they wanted to tax me almost it felt like. I refused and said I would just keep the Japanese plate and my Japanese drivers license. They tried to say that they were no good. I asked them if they wanted to tell the Japanese consulate that. I never did license that bike in that state.

I feel the same about the proposed internet sales tax. My state did nothing to earn that tax so as far as I see they can go jump in the lake.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 4:28:01 PM

Im just going to paste what i typed in the other thread about this a couple weeks ago.........



As much as i hate to have another tax i can kind of understand the reasoning behind it. The original reason for the lack of an internet tax was to help foster the internet economy until it was strong enough to stand on its own. I think we all agree a sales tax isn't going to kill internet sales anytime soon. Now there are some protections in the bill for smaller retailers. Retailers that do less than $1 million in business a year are exempt.

HOWEVER...

The reason Amazon is behind the internet sales tax is for selfish reasons. While smaller business are immune to the tax medium business.... direct competitors are not.

Now part of the argument against the internet sales tax is that while state sales tax is easy to calculate local county by county sales taxes are a pain. For a small or medium sized company, it can become expensive and complicated to calculate taxes which can literally vary from county to county, even city to city.

Amazon likes this because it may end up driving competitors out of business. Amazon has the infrastructure and money in place already to cope with state and local sales taxes.

So, in conclusion, the internet sales tax will be a double edged sword. Small companies wont be affected. Medium will have to adapt, and large companies will laugh at us as they rake in even more money.


[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 5/8/2013 4:30:11 PM EST]
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