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Author Topic: Fracking doesn't pose health risks. Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Message Posted: May 1, 2013 4:15:24 PM



Haven't seen one single case where fracking has caused a health risk. But the luddite libs are still against it.
.
>>>While New York Governor Andrew Cuomo vacillates on whether to allow fracking in New York State, a coterie of publicity savvy activists posing as public health experts are spearheading a disingenuous crusade to prevent the exploitation of the vast quantities of natural gas trapped in shale thousands of feet beneath New York’s Southern Tier. The leaders of this movement, millionaires with estates in natural gas-rich areas, have thus far successfully manipulated public opinion and the media by linking fracking to water and air pollution.

But fracking doesn’t pollute water or air. No documented instances of adverse health effects have been linked to fracking, nor have any occurrences of groundwater contamination been confirmed from the more than 1 million wells that have been hydraulically fractured over the past 50 years. Former EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson said as much last year when she was queried on this subject, and her former boss, President Obama, supports hydraulic fracturing.<<<

Yet these people continue to lie and harm others - for purely political reasons. And few if any liberals will call them out on it.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2014 2:16:10 AM

"if we get enough gas we can buy more bagels. HUMMMMMMMMM"

But enough gas may not be the key to open the lox...
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 1:21:55 PM

OMG somebody quick hide the bagels.... Well lets think on this a bit - if we get enough gas we can buy more bagels. HUMMMMMMMMM
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2014 12:59:30 PM

At least you have a sense of humor A1. That will be both of our's salvation.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2014 5:41:43 PM



Passer-

ROTFL
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2014 5:37:19 PM

"Fracking will stop as soon as every hole that can be fracked gets fracked."

LOL

People better guard the holes in their doughnuts or before you know it, those holes will be fracked by the dough nut$...
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2014 12:18:53 AM

"But they have no right to sell the next generation's souls no matter how "great" a price they got for their own pieces of black gold."

Hahaha, Whatever.
Fracking will stop as soon as every hole that can be fracked gets fracked.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2014 6:02:54 PM

Steve we have been fracking for a long time. There have been literally a million or more wells fracked.

This body of experience has proven - or should have proven to you and other antifrackers - that it is a process that has been and can be done safely to the benefit of all of us.

Can accidents happen - yes. Can people make mistakes - yes. Can someone take unnecessary or against policy/law/rules chances - yes. But you dont say the entire thing is bad and should be stopped because of aberrations in an otherwise good safety record.

Using your ideology we would never again use cars - or they would resemble tanks with big bumpers to protect folks and no speed over five mph would be allowed.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2014 4:30:41 PM

I'm just glad we stopped the next ice age on earth in time, aren't you? How much did the whole alar on apples thing cost before it was discovered to be a sham. "Don't let a good crisis go to waste" and create one if there isn't a good one handy.

I realize that this is a futile post as we all died some years ago from the hole in the ozone layer.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2014 4:21:37 PM

The comments about fracking going on for 60 years...

True, but not at the volume being done today. And not so close to residential water supplies.

The comment about well, not many have died from fracking.

It's like the old dangerous intersection. Everybody knows it's dangerous but there have not been that many deaths yet so it is not addressed.

And then somebody important/popular/heart-tugging gets killed there. Next thing ya know the whole place is being torn up and redone.

The thing about fracking being dangerous is sort of like climate change. If we wait until it is clear that this is a stupid idea by that time the damage is already done. Ground water tainted, property values plummet and everybody has to leave an area because we destroyed it. But at least there weren't very many deaths until that happened...

Oh, great. Nice to know.

The folks who lost everything will be so comforted by this knowledge.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2014 3:06:16 AM

"But Mexicomaria brings up a very valid point - we are obsessing about minutia that may kill us and not paying any attention to hazards of orders of magnitude higher concern."

OK. But this topic is read by teenagers who may be more invested in the future than the almighty influence of current profits for which many good people have sold their soul. This topic is labeled

"Fracking DOESN'T...!"


Not even an argument is entertained or permitted, the usual Right Wing "My Way or I'll Shut Your Government Down" tactic!

Those who believe that nonsense have their heads in the [tar]sand and their souls already sold to their highest black gold bidder.

But they have no right to sell the next generation's souls no matter how "great" a price they got for their own pieces of black gold.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 7:01:58 PM

And the fact is 50 years ago this topic would be called, "Tobacco Smoking Doesn't Pose Health Riskes".

Agreed. People who were around then should remember calls for proof that smoking was harmful. The scary thing is, many people still believe it isn't so bad because other things are bad, a theme eerily echoed in this thread.
Smoking isn't that bad.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 12/2/2014 7:06:49 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 5:38:37 PM

Passer I dont believe you really know much of what your spouting off about. My grandfather who was in France in WW I told us that the guys in the trenches used to call cigarettes "coffin nails". Why you may ask - because among those who had the sense to pound sand they knew that smoking was harmful. People knew that it was harmful - but then as today they choose to smoke. Again why you may ask - because nicotine is a very addictive drug and very hard to stop and stay off of.

But Mexicomaria brings up a very valid point - we are obsessing about minutia that may kill us and not paying any attention to hazards of orders of magnitude higher concern.

The sad sorry facts are that we have been fracking wells for a long time adn we have fracked on the order of a million wells and the instances of environmental problems from fracking are almost nonexistent.
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oilpan4
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 1:20:56 PM

"PEOPLE WHO DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!"

Then the liberals are doomed.
Nice knowing ya.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:49:09 PM

"I say there is staggering evidence for the cigarette being nothing but a killer...no plus, just a killer."

True, very true. And the fact is 50 years ago this topic would be called, "Tobacco Smoking Doesn't Pose Health Riskes". And I bet so many would "prove" it by quoting the Congressional TESTIMONY of the heads of the Tobacco companies who were under oath at the Congressional Hearings at the time!

PEOPLE WHO DON'T LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT!
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 11:17:52 PM

I know precisely what chemicals are used in fracking.
You and passer are still trying to figure it out, so much for "not having your head in the sand".
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 11:01:03 PM

Isn't it just like me to walk right in in the middle of a conversation and throw in a monkey wrench? Some things are just major pet peeves to me.........this is one.

When it comes to health we spend so much time arguing about minutiae....while being killed by a bulldozer.

Let's look at the top killers of Americans in 2012.

Here are the top 15 killers:

1. Diseases of heart
2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases (such as chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and asthma)
4. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
5. Accidents (any injuries that are unintentional)
6. Alzheimer’s disease
7. Diabetes mellitus
8. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease)
9. Influenza and pneumonia
10. Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11. Septicemia
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease
14. Parkinson’s disease
15. Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids

Care to guess how many of these diseases are caused or directly linked to smoking? Or Obesity. But do politically correct folks ever say, heh, that cigarette will kill you and those who surround you, or that pie will kill you, because you weigh 300lbs.

2nd hand smoke kills others....second hand eating rarely kills others....so here I will just go on about smoking. You quit or you die young, that is it. My mother died of lung cancer, smoker. My sister has a cancer from smoking. My father died of cancer, smoker. Second hand smoke can't have done me any favors.

I say there is staggering evidence for the cigarette being nothing but a killer...no plus, just a killer.

Now, fracking may some day prove to be not healthy but folks if you smoke you are dying RIGHT now, and it is absolutely proven smoking is a killer. So I like to worry about the proven......the deadly killer.
NOtice murder or homicidal moved off the list in 2012........so worry about guns...while cigarettes kill you and probably those you love.

Too bad you asked this question when a health care worker was in the house.

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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 10:01:08 PM

Passer: "But as to its "health risks" the jury is still out, and all the Right's axe grinding about this has achieved is left them with bloody hands which may make it difficult if not impossible for them ever to remove their head from deep within the [tar]sand!"

Heh heh heh. Good one.

And so right on.

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 12/1/2014 10:01:35 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 4:51:29 PM

"Someone needs to learn the difference between fracking and tar sands."

To the anti frack, anti tar sand liberals both recovery activities are one and the same.

Hopefully the liberals are in full freak out mode with my recent revelations. The only promise I make is everything I say is absolutely true, because I find fact often stranger, more disgusting and far more horrifying than fiction.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 2:39:23 PM

"oilpan4 you talk of a herbicide used to clean a food processing plant. Why would anyone ever use a chemical developed and used to kill weeds to clean a food processing machine?"

Leave it to a con to ask the correct question.

This "fast burn herbicide" has many uses it is a cheap to produce is a fairly strong highly reactive organic acid that has found use in the agriculture, oil and food industry (maybe elsewhere too).
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 10:39:31 AM



Passer, "Fracking has definitely helped this country by the huge economic gains it is definitely responsible for......make it difficult if not impossible for them ever to remove their head from deep within the [tar]sand!

Someone needs to learn the difference between fracking and tar sands.

SMH

Or just learn period.

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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 10:33:29 AM



Passer, "That rant sounds a bit ironic (and rings hollow) since it was by someone who was banned for violating the rules here by personally insulting, forgive the expression, "another one"."

A totally false statement.

But since you seem to know so much, give us the details behind your [false] statement.

SMH

Just another example of liberal [false] 'name calling'.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 10:09:28 AM

oilpan4 you talk of a herbicide used to clean a food processing plant. Why would anyone ever use a chemical developed and used to kill weeds to clean a food processing machine?
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 2:38:08 AM

"And that is what liberals do ALL the time.

When they lose an argument [which they do all the time], they simply go to name-calling.

It is their modus operandi in every instance."

That rant sounds a bit ironic (and rings hollow) since it was by someone who was banned for violating the rules here by personally insulting, forgive the expression, "another one".

Fracking has definitely helped this country by the huge economic gains it is definitely responsible for. But as to its "health risks" the jury is still out, and all the Right's axe grinding about this has achieved is left them with bloody hands which may make it difficult if not impossible for them ever to remove their head from deep within the [tar]sand!
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2014 12:29:51 AM

From the article: The big Secret? Fracking fluids

" Clinton Marshall, arrived complaining of nausea and headaches. Marshall had spilled “fracturing fluid” on his clothes and boots and the smell apparently was overpowering and sufficiently strong that they evacuated the emergency room. Cathy Behr, without protection, had meanwhile spent just ten minutes tending to Mr. Marshall.

A few days after this ER visit, Behr appeared jaundiced and began vomiting fluid and having difficulty breathing. Behr’s husband took her back to the emergency room where she was diagnosed with multiple organ failure, including liver failure, respiratory distress and erratic blood counts. She was admitted to the ICU with the presumptive diagnosis of poisoning from an unknown chemical."

Please.....
The food industry uses way worse chemicals than that to clean and sterilize surfaces that come in contact with food you eat and beverages you drink.
By the food industry I don't mean McDonalds or your local grocery store. I am talking about the large scale industrialized food processors where the bulk of the food you eat originates.

I have gotten food and drink contaminated with these sanitizes a few times over the years, not having any idea what it was. Have you ever had a food or drink product that had a funny smell to it? It defiantly wasn't spoiled, it tasted or smelled kind of like soap, but different, it may have have had an almost metallic taste and smell to it.
Well I know what that chemical is now. For years it was just a few isolated incidents. Once or twice where I got milk, some frozen foods or a soda that just tasted weird and had a funny smell to it. Well the first time I came in contact with a container of that herbicide/sanitizer you are anti frackers are so obsessed with I instantly recognized the smell with out even having to think about it.

I understand the inner workings of how the industrialized food industry works now. You have miles of stainless steel pipe with thousands of valves. A lot of these valves are double acting, you can have milk, water, cheese curds, soda, gravy, cream, salt water, flowing on one side of the valve and on the other side of that valve you will have what the industry calls CIP solution (CIP means Clean In Place) separated by a single rubber O-ring. Well some times these valves leak, some times an accident happens where a little CIP gets unknowingly gets squirted into a vat of food, or some times all the CIP solution doesn't drain out of a vat before the next batch starts. All of these plants are controlled by computers. The computers usually aren't the culprit poisoning your food that is usually human error or mechanical failure.
And voilà you have herbicide in your babies food.
(not even the oil companies are that evil)

So stop worrying about a fracking site several states away and worry more about those chemicals you are so terrified of being introduced to your food. Because I guarantee you are ingesting these chemicals, they are just coming from somewhere you would never expect.

Don't think buying organic will save you. The "organic" food processors and makers have to abide by the same sanitation standards as everyone else, by law.

Yeah I waited till after thanksgiving to post this for a reason. Hope you had a good one.



[Edited by: oilpan4 at 11/30/2014 12:33:07 AM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 2:01:19 PM

"Someday you may learn about class and self control"

We will all be killed by man made global warming before that happens. Which translates to never.

"You also "think" all who fear climate change are also "fanatical ignoramuses" like anyone who dares disagree with you?"

Any one who doesn't fear climate change is an idiot. It nearly caused the human race to go extinct during the last ice age.

Passer, there are 3 people in this world. Those that make things happen, those that watch what happen and those who sit around dazed and confused wondering what happened.
You are clearly in the 3rd category.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 1:54:46 PM

"If they were not afraid to tell what chemicals they are injecting into the ground they would not keep them such a secret."

Since I have visited fracking sites and took down all the DOT hazard lables off the bulk chemical containers I know what they use, at least around the west texas eastern new mexico area.
Its nothing worse than what comes out of the ground and I guarantee you have worse things under your sink.
The fracking companies are not trying to keep some uber toxic secret super chemical secret, because very toxic very reactive chemicals are usually very expensive and difficult to ship and store. I believe they are keeping some inconspicuous common compound that you would never guess would be used in fracking secret.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 12:33:27 PM



Passer, "is that name calling is not Science!"

That is so true, Passer.

And that is what liberals do ALL the time.

When they lose an argument [which they do all the time], they simply go to name-calling.

It is their modus operandi in every instance.

Shameless liberals believe in science except when they don't. Then they MANUFACTURE their own facts and their own 'science' and commence with the name-calling.

SMH



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 11/29/2014 12:34:21 PM EST]
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 12:24:50 PM

"You people are fear filled, fanatical ignoramuses"

Like the Tea Party(?) but unlike them, respect and don't fear Science.

You also "think" all who fear climate change are also "fanatical ignoramuses" like anyone who dares disagree with you?

What the fracking industry and especially you, don't understand is that name calling is not Science!

That you haven't learned that little fact shows what all fair people understand about you. Someday you may learn about class and self control, until then you do your position more harm than good.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 11:31:40 AM

If they were not afraid to tell what chemicals they are injecting into the ground they would not keep them such a secret.

And making up fancy names is not giving the chemical formula.

So just saying 'we use frack-a-hol350' is not posting what is in the water.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 12:31:13 AM

I had an issue with a chemical order not too long ago.
Multiple 1000 liter containers of 98% super concentrated sulfuric acid, 33% hydrochloric acid, 38% hydrogen peroxide, saturated sodium hydroxide solution and some other real nasty stuff that will take your skin off faster than you can wash the chemical off.

Now do you think that shipment went to an oil company, a food company or a mad scientist?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 11:50:41 PM

"If you heard me saying I hate fracking but I never said that what else do you believe that isn't so?"

Actions speak louder than words. You hate fracking.

So how about all those sick children you were talking about earlier?
Where are they?

"trade secret"

Hermond already explaned the trade secret chemical thing a few months ago and you commented on it. Are you suffering from short term memory loss?
I cant make a household cleaner with hydrazine and label the hydrazine as a "trade secret" and sell it.

"You’d want to know if they’re putting an herb or a poison down an oil well near your house,”
(from the article)

This is hilarious and displays the true stupidity of the envirowack job movement.
This herb poison they speak of is also used in industrial scale food processing all the time, multiple times a day. I bet you are wondering why is a herbicide used in the dairy industry?????
Its widely used in dairy processing as an acidic cleaner and sanitizer. It is used on any surface that comes in contact with milk or cheese products. Its mandated by the government that a cleaner like it be used.
I don't believe the meat packing industry uses it.
If you consume dairy products you have already eaten or drank small amounts of this herbicide. I work with it every day and I have not died yet, I have even had it splashed on me it gave me a mild chemical burn and had a dry patch of skin the next day. I would not want it in my eyes for sure. Trust me, if there were enough of this herbicide in your water to hurt you, you will know it. This herbicide maybe color less but it is not odorless and has a very distinct taste. If you come in contact with more than a trace amount it you will know it.
You people are fear filled, fanatical ignoramuses and you sicken me.
You should really get a life.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 5:12:11 PM

"We already have posted the chemical list numerous time."

There are proprietary chemical mixes as well, we don't know what is in them.
"A district judge in Wyoming has shot down a group of environmentalists who tried to gather information about the long-term effects of fracking, ruling that they do not have the right to know what ingredients are used in hydraulic fracturing fluids."
Fracking chemicals to stay 'trade secrets'
"You have to wonder why any environmental agency would allow a toxic chemical formula like Zetaflow to be injected into the ground, knowing that backflow and impoundment lagoons of fracking fluid result in chemicals wafting through the air, potentially exposing anyone who comes near. And you would not want to take a risk that this could leak into your ground water, permanently contaminating a water source for future generations.
Unfortunately, we not only allow such a risk, but we exempt such chemicals from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws. By handcuffing the EPA legal apparatus from regulating the gas drilling industry, we have given that industry the exclusive right to extract gas using whatever proprietary chemicals they deem appropriate."
The Big Secret? Fracking Fluids
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 4:41:16 PM

If you heard me saying I hate fracking but I never said that what else do you believe that isn't so?

Expressing a legitimate concern for the safety of living near complex and secretive chemical operations with the potential to pollute drinking water is just that.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 3:25:43 PM

"Fracking companies should be required to disclose the chemicals used in fracking fluid so the public can determine the risk to drinking water and inhillation hazard for people living in close proximity to wells."

We already have posted the chemical list numerous time.

"There are unexplained illnesses and deaths among poor children living near fracking wells."

Where are these wells and who are these children?

"Which is systemic. The rich won't live there. Property values plummet when fracking moves in. Then the only ones who will live there are poor."

People I know who have had their wells fracked are not poor and would never do anything that would make their land less valuable.
These people are actually kind of rich. They have a lot more money, land and vehicles than I do.

"It would be a huge issue if you tried to set up a well in a rich neighborhood."

Its already happened in texas.

Why do you hate fracking so much?
The only way it will effect you in Florida is cheaper energy.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 1:31:03 PM

Fracking companies should be required to disclose the chemicals used in fracking fluid so the public can determine the risk to drinking water and inhillation hazard for people living in close proximity to wells.

There are unexplained illnesses and deaths among poor children living near fracking wells.

Which is systemic. The rich won't live there. Property values plummet when fracking moves in. Then the only ones who will live there are poor.

It would be a huge issue if you tried to set up a well in a rich neighborhood.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2014 12:43:59 PM

You better get frackin - large scale govt supported solar a dud it seems.
.
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>>>The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System in the Mojave Desert, lauded by U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz at its opening last February, is having problems matching the initial boasts of how much electricity it would produce.

Given a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee, the plant only produced 254,263 megawatt-hours (MWh) of electricity from last January through August, and in the following four months, only 189,156 MWh. As reported by Greentechmedia, original estimates asserted that there would be over 1 million MWh produced yearly, but based on how much was produced in the first eight months of 2014, only 600,000 MWh would be produced. <<<
.
.
So the taxpayers are stuck with a 1.6 BILLION loan guarantee and they are asking for "extensions on repaying their loans. The Wall Street Journal reported that the owners were reportedly waiting for a cash grant from the U.S. Treasury that was worth 30 percent of the cost of Ivanpah. That grant was made possible because of an Obama stimulus provision: the 1603 program."

Now lets get this straight - they are using a lot of natural gas to operate a solar generating plant that the taxpayers get stuck with paying for adn they want more grants from the govt. Why doesnt this make sense???? After all the govt doesnt subsidize the private companies to frack for oil and gas do they. The taxpayers dont pay BIGEVILOIL to produce energy for us do they? In fact if my feeble memory is right dont the oil folks pya large amounts of taxes?

Lets review rapidly here now - BIGEVILOIL provides us cheap energy at their own expense and pay whopping taxes in the process. The so called 'green energy' companies demand govt loans and guarantees and grants and tax breaks and so on ------ then they cant provide the energy they promised - OK got it - we obviously need more 'green' energy ------NOT!
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 1, 2014 2:59:16 PM

Fracking saved Americans $248 billion last year
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>>>Hydraulic fracturing saved Americans almost $250 billion last year, according to a report issued by the oil and gas industry Thursday as part of a move to ratchet up the fight against looming regulations meant to restrict "fracking."

The study, commissioned by the American Petroleum Institute (API), compared historical fuel price and production data against a scenario without the advanced drilling technology. Researchers concluded that without horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, international crude oil prices would have been $12 to $40 higher per barrel.

The resulting savings totaled $248 billion in 2013 and as much as $624 billion between 2008 and last year, according to the study, drafted by ICF International, a research and consulting firm.

“For the first time in generations, surging domestic production is driving our energy security and providing a crucial buffer against disruptions in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East,” said Kyle Isakower, the API’s vice president for regulatory and economic policy. <<<

Now there are some who will not be happy with the source of the information. OK I understand that - but can you comment on the truth of the data/information.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 2:22:25 PM

fly, I was referring to comment about the "saving a minnow" concerning the water in Kern Valley.

Now, I apologize for the misspelling of your expertise.
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 2:14:15 PM

ac-302 and in compliance for their paymasters OPEC
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 1:49:16 PM

Again, if there were REAL concerns about hydraulic fracturing of formations, then those should rightly have been raise 50 years ago or more. Since the envirokooks and other foolish liberals (as opposed to intelligent ones) are only protesting now, it is obvious that this is about putting fossil fuels off limits. It's not about protecting groundwater or health. It's about making oil more expensive, not less, so that people are FORCED into uneconomical "green" energy schemes (read as "Ponzi Schemes").
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 10:02:54 PM

"You can't grow vegetables, keep farm animals alive, make soup, wash the baby, or sustain basic life with any number of barrels of oil, either."

Actually, you can. Ever heard of a desalinization plant? With oil providing the power, we can purify and transport all the water we need to do all those things. Fresh water is also a renewable resource. Billions of gallons fall from the sky every day.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 4:14:31 PM

"sylvanist" = tree hugger
???
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 4:13:23 PM

"But what in the world does managing a forest have to do with fracking."

I wonder that too, but I didn't touch that remark because of the pure insanity factor.

"But it is more likely that if a grundle of treehugging ecologists infest a forest they will likely trash it, scare off the very wildlife you seem to like and will more than likely burn it down through sheer stupidity."

Past performance usually a pretty good predictor of future results.

"more than likely burn it down"

Just wait until they decree that it is better for the forest to be burned to the ground than harvested for the benefit of the 1%.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 3:43:43 PM

btc said - "fly, as a forester and a "sylvanist" you have no problem cutting trees, right? Why? Because you can re-seed to replace them. Can you do that with the last of a species? "

First of all what the heck is a "sylvanist"? I have never heard of the term. A Forester has no trouble cutting down trees that is true. But btc that is only a small part of the job. The real job of a Forester is to manage land to meet the objectives of the owners. Most often the land is forested land hence using a "Forester" to manage "forested land".

It all depends on what the species is your talking about btc. If we are talking about the last individuals of the species of mosquito that are carriers of infectious diseases - I would personally spray the last pond of them.

But what in the world does managing a forest have to do with fracking. If there is oil or gas under the forest it is very possible to recover the fuel and not cause significant disruption to the forest or its inhabitants.

But it is more likely that if a grundle of treehugging ecologists infest a forest they will likely trash it, scare off the very wildlife you seem to like and will more than likely burn it down through sheer stupidity.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:40:27 PM

"Really you have a collection devise for that? And then are able to transfer that water to a static separation tank with proper filtration?"

Ever hear of a fuel cell?

My answer is as absurd as the original comment, since we know that in the U.S. we will never have unlimited oil and no water.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:31:30 PM

Oilpan, "With unlimited oil I would burn the oil in such a manor that would allow me to collect the water formed from combustion for all that." Really you have a collection devise for that? And then are able to transfer that water to a static separation tank with proper filtration? I set one up back in 1990. It cost me in excess of $25,000 then. That does not include the replacement of the filters when needed and disposal of any pollutants collected from that process. And the lab testing to know that the water is pure. But, go ahead. Good to know you are concerned enough to do that.



[Edited by: btc1 at 10/19/2014 2:34:02 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:01:06 PM

"You can't grow vegetables, keep farm animals alive, make soup, wash the baby, or sustain basic life with any number of barrels of oil, either."

With unlimited oil I would burn the oil in such a manor that would allow me to collect the water formed from combustion for all that.

Plus last time I checked gas is nearly $3 a gallon, water is more like 0.3 cents per gallon. So its pretty obvious which one we have a lot of and which one is going to run out.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 1:44:21 PM

fly, as a forester and a "sylvanist" you have no problem cutting trees, right? Why? Because you can re-seed to replace them. Can you do that with the last of a species?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 1:40:00 PM

"You cant power your car, pave a road, fly a plane, oil a machine, make petro chemicals, transport goods with any number of barrels of water."

You can't grow vegetables, keep farm animals alive, make soup, wash the baby, or sustain basic life with any number of barrels of oil, either.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:29:59 AM

Evidence That This Topic is Misnamed
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2014 12:14:11 AM

"Of the nearly 40,000 oil and gas wells drilled since 2011"

There's your problem. That was 2011.
Our 200% annual rain fall was this past September as in the September that ended 13 days ago.
It was really dry here too in 2011, so dry to my north east up towards Amarillo it was so dry jack rabbits died of thirst.
The ones that didn't die of thirst a few years ago were endanger of drowning last month. That entire area was lit up with a flash flood warning at least once.

“At the height of California oil production in 1985, oil companies in Kern County pumped 1.1 billion barrels of water underground to extract 256 million barrels of oil—a ratio of roughly four and a half barrels of water for every barrel of oil,” according to Miller. “In 2008, Kern producers injected nearly 1.3 billion barrels of water to extract 162 million barrels of oil—a ratio of nearly eight barrels of water for every barrel of oil produced.”
“At the height of California oil production in 1985, oil companies in Kern County pumped 1.1 billion barrels of water underground to extract 256 million barrels of oil—a ratio of roughly four and a half barrels of water for every barrel of oil,” according to Miller. “In 2008, Kern producers injected nearly 1.3 billion barrels of water to extract 162 million barrels of oil—a ratio of nearly eight barrels of water for every barrel of oil produced."

So you think that if that water wasn't used in 1985 or 2008 for oil extraction some one would have taken the water and saved it and still have it today?
In reality if that water wasn't used it would have flowed down the river and out to sea and any water sucked out of a well has been replaced.

8 or 10 barrels of water for one barrel of oil still sounds like a good deal to me. I am glad you shared that, I thought oil extraction might have required a higher oil to water ratio.
You cant power your car, pave a road, fly a plane, oil a machine, make petro chemicals, transport goods with any number of barrels of water.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 10/13/2014 12:14:56 AM EST]
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