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Author Topic: Fracking doesn't pose health risks. Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Utah

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Message Posted: May 1, 2013 4:15:24 PM



Haven't seen one single case where fracking has caused a health risk. But the luddite libs are still against it.
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>>>While New York Governor Andrew Cuomo vacillates on whether to allow fracking in New York State, a coterie of publicity savvy activists posing as public health experts are spearheading a disingenuous crusade to prevent the exploitation of the vast quantities of natural gas trapped in shale thousands of feet beneath New York’s Southern Tier. The leaders of this movement, millionaires with estates in natural gas-rich areas, have thus far successfully manipulated public opinion and the media by linking fracking to water and air pollution.

But fracking doesn’t pollute water or air. No documented instances of adverse health effects have been linked to fracking, nor have any occurrences of groundwater contamination been confirmed from the more than 1 million wells that have been hydraulically fractured over the past 50 years. Former EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson said as much last year when she was queried on this subject, and her former boss, President Obama, supports hydraulic fracturing.<<<

Yet these people continue to lie and harm others - for purely political reasons. And few if any liberals will call them out on it.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 12:31:13 AM

I had an issue with a chemical order not too long ago.
Multiple 1000 liter containers of 98% super concentrated sulfuric acid, 33% hydrochloric acid, 38% hydrogen peroxide, saturated sodium hydroxide solution and some other real nasty stuff that will take your skin off faster than you can wash the chemical off.

Now do you think that shipment went to an oil company, a food company or a mad scientist?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 11:50:41 PM

"If you heard me saying I hate fracking but I never said that what else do you believe that isn't so?"

Actions speak louder than words. You hate fracking.

So how about all those sick children you were talking about earlier?
Where are they?

"trade secret"

Hermond already explaned the trade secret chemical thing a few months ago and you commented on it. Are you suffering from short term memory loss?
I cant make a household cleaner with hydrazine and label the hydrazine as a "trade secret" and sell it.

"You’d want to know if they’re putting an herb or a poison down an oil well near your house,”
(from the article)

This is hilarious and displays the true stupidity of the envirowack job movement.
This herb poison they speak of is also used in industrial scale food processing all the time, multiple times a day. I bet you are wondering why is a herbicide used in the dairy industry?????
Its widely used in dairy processing as an acidic cleaner and sanitizer. It is used on any surface that comes in contact with milk or cheese products. Its mandated by the government that a cleaner like it be used.
I don't believe the meat packing industry uses it.
If you consume dairy products you have already eaten or drank small amounts of this herbicide. I work with it every day and I have not died yet, I have even had it splashed on me it gave me a mild chemical burn and had a dry patch of skin the next day. I would not want it in my eyes for sure. Trust me, if there were enough of this herbicide in your water to hurt you, you will know it. This herbicide maybe color less but it is not odorless and has a very distinct taste. If you come in contact with more than a trace amount it you will know it.
You people are fear filled, fanatical ignoramuses and you sicken me.
You should really get a life.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 5:12:11 PM

"We already have posted the chemical list numerous time."

There are proprietary chemical mixes as well, we don't know what is in them.
"A district judge in Wyoming has shot down a group of environmentalists who tried to gather information about the long-term effects of fracking, ruling that they do not have the right to know what ingredients are used in hydraulic fracturing fluids."
Fracking chemicals to stay 'trade secrets'
"You have to wonder why any environmental agency would allow a toxic chemical formula like Zetaflow to be injected into the ground, knowing that backflow and impoundment lagoons of fracking fluid result in chemicals wafting through the air, potentially exposing anyone who comes near. And you would not want to take a risk that this could leak into your ground water, permanently contaminating a water source for future generations.
Unfortunately, we not only allow such a risk, but we exempt such chemicals from the Safe Drinking Water Act, the Clean Air Act and other environmental laws. By handcuffing the EPA legal apparatus from regulating the gas drilling industry, we have given that industry the exclusive right to extract gas using whatever proprietary chemicals they deem appropriate."
The Big Secret? Fracking Fluids
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 4:41:16 PM

If you heard me saying I hate fracking but I never said that what else do you believe that isn't so?

Expressing a legitimate concern for the safety of living near complex and secretive chemical operations with the potential to pollute drinking water is just that.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 3:25:43 PM

"Fracking companies should be required to disclose the chemicals used in fracking fluid so the public can determine the risk to drinking water and inhillation hazard for people living in close proximity to wells."

We already have posted the chemical list numerous time.

"There are unexplained illnesses and deaths among poor children living near fracking wells."

Where are these wells and who are these children?

"Which is systemic. The rich won't live there. Property values plummet when fracking moves in. Then the only ones who will live there are poor."

People I know who have had their wells fracked are not poor and would never do anything that would make their land less valuable.
These people are actually kind of rich. They have a lot more money, land and vehicles than I do.

"It would be a huge issue if you tried to set up a well in a rich neighborhood."

Its already happened in texas.

Why do you hate fracking so much?
The only way it will effect you in Florida is cheaper energy.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 1:31:03 PM

Fracking companies should be required to disclose the chemicals used in fracking fluid so the public can determine the risk to drinking water and inhillation hazard for people living in close proximity to wells.

There are unexplained illnesses and deaths among poor children living near fracking wells.

Which is systemic. The rich won't live there. Property values plummet when fracking moves in. Then the only ones who will live there are poor.

It would be a huge issue if you tried to set up a well in a rich neighborhood.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2014 12:43:59 PM

You better get frackin - large scale govt supported solar a dud it seems.
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>>>The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System in the Mojave Desert, lauded by U.S. Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz at its opening last February, is having problems matching the initial boasts of how much electricity it would produce.

Given a $1.6 billion federal loan guarantee, the plant only produced 254,263 megawatt-hours (MWh) of electricity from last January through August, and in the following four months, only 189,156 MWh. As reported by Greentechmedia, original estimates asserted that there would be over 1 million MWh produced yearly, but based on how much was produced in the first eight months of 2014, only 600,000 MWh would be produced. <<<
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So the taxpayers are stuck with a 1.6 BILLION loan guarantee and they are asking for "extensions on repaying their loans. The Wall Street Journal reported that the owners were reportedly waiting for a cash grant from the U.S. Treasury that was worth 30 percent of the cost of Ivanpah. That grant was made possible because of an Obama stimulus provision: the 1603 program."

Now lets get this straight - they are using a lot of natural gas to operate a solar generating plant that the taxpayers get stuck with paying for adn they want more grants from the govt. Why doesnt this make sense???? After all the govt doesnt subsidize the private companies to frack for oil and gas do they. The taxpayers dont pay BIGEVILOIL to produce energy for us do they? In fact if my feeble memory is right dont the oil folks pya large amounts of taxes?

Lets review rapidly here now - BIGEVILOIL provides us cheap energy at their own expense and pay whopping taxes in the process. The so called 'green energy' companies demand govt loans and guarantees and grants and tax breaks and so on ------ then they cant provide the energy they promised - OK got it - we obviously need more 'green' energy ------NOT!
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 1, 2014 2:59:16 PM

Fracking saved Americans $248 billion last year
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>>>Hydraulic fracturing saved Americans almost $250 billion last year, according to a report issued by the oil and gas industry Thursday as part of a move to ratchet up the fight against looming regulations meant to restrict "fracking."

The study, commissioned by the American Petroleum Institute (API), compared historical fuel price and production data against a scenario without the advanced drilling technology. Researchers concluded that without horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, international crude oil prices would have been $12 to $40 higher per barrel.

The resulting savings totaled $248 billion in 2013 and as much as $624 billion between 2008 and last year, according to the study, drafted by ICF International, a research and consulting firm.

“For the first time in generations, surging domestic production is driving our energy security and providing a crucial buffer against disruptions in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East,” said Kyle Isakower, the API’s vice president for regulatory and economic policy. <<<

Now there are some who will not be happy with the source of the information. OK I understand that - but can you comment on the truth of the data/information.
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btc1
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 2:22:25 PM

fly, I was referring to comment about the "saving a minnow" concerning the water in Kern Valley.

Now, I apologize for the misspelling of your expertise.
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wbacon
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 2:14:15 PM

ac-302 and in compliance for their paymasters OPEC
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2014 1:49:16 PM

Again, if there were REAL concerns about hydraulic fracturing of formations, then those should rightly have been raise 50 years ago or more. Since the envirokooks and other foolish liberals (as opposed to intelligent ones) are only protesting now, it is obvious that this is about putting fossil fuels off limits. It's not about protecting groundwater or health. It's about making oil more expensive, not less, so that people are FORCED into uneconomical "green" energy schemes (read as "Ponzi Schemes").
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HotRod10
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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 10:02:54 PM

"You can't grow vegetables, keep farm animals alive, make soup, wash the baby, or sustain basic life with any number of barrels of oil, either."

Actually, you can. Ever heard of a desalinization plant? With oil providing the power, we can purify and transport all the water we need to do all those things. Fresh water is also a renewable resource. Billions of gallons fall from the sky every day.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 4:14:31 PM

"sylvanist" = tree hugger
???
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 4:13:23 PM

"But what in the world does managing a forest have to do with fracking."

I wonder that too, but I didn't touch that remark because of the pure insanity factor.

"But it is more likely that if a grundle of treehugging ecologists infest a forest they will likely trash it, scare off the very wildlife you seem to like and will more than likely burn it down through sheer stupidity."

Past performance usually a pretty good predictor of future results.

"more than likely burn it down"

Just wait until they decree that it is better for the forest to be burned to the ground than harvested for the benefit of the 1%.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 3:43:43 PM

btc said - "fly, as a forester and a "sylvanist" you have no problem cutting trees, right? Why? Because you can re-seed to replace them. Can you do that with the last of a species? "

First of all what the heck is a "sylvanist"? I have never heard of the term. A Forester has no trouble cutting down trees that is true. But btc that is only a small part of the job. The real job of a Forester is to manage land to meet the objectives of the owners. Most often the land is forested land hence using a "Forester" to manage "forested land".

It all depends on what the species is your talking about btc. If we are talking about the last individuals of the species of mosquito that are carriers of infectious diseases - I would personally spray the last pond of them.

But what in the world does managing a forest have to do with fracking. If there is oil or gas under the forest it is very possible to recover the fuel and not cause significant disruption to the forest or its inhabitants.

But it is more likely that if a grundle of treehugging ecologists infest a forest they will likely trash it, scare off the very wildlife you seem to like and will more than likely burn it down through sheer stupidity.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:40:27 PM

"Really you have a collection devise for that? And then are able to transfer that water to a static separation tank with proper filtration?"

Ever hear of a fuel cell?

My answer is as absurd as the original comment, since we know that in the U.S. we will never have unlimited oil and no water.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:31:30 PM

Oilpan, "With unlimited oil I would burn the oil in such a manor that would allow me to collect the water formed from combustion for all that." Really you have a collection devise for that? And then are able to transfer that water to a static separation tank with proper filtration? I set one up back in 1990. It cost me in excess of $25,000 then. That does not include the replacement of the filters when needed and disposal of any pollutants collected from that process. And the lab testing to know that the water is pure. But, go ahead. Good to know you are concerned enough to do that.



[Edited by: btc1 at 10/19/2014 2:34:02 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:01:06 PM

"You can't grow vegetables, keep farm animals alive, make soup, wash the baby, or sustain basic life with any number of barrels of oil, either."

With unlimited oil I would burn the oil in such a manor that would allow me to collect the water formed from combustion for all that.

Plus last time I checked gas is nearly $3 a gallon, water is more like 0.3 cents per gallon. So its pretty obvious which one we have a lot of and which one is going to run out.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 1:44:21 PM

fly, as a forester and a "sylvanist" you have no problem cutting trees, right? Why? Because you can re-seed to replace them. Can you do that with the last of a species?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 1:40:00 PM

"You cant power your car, pave a road, fly a plane, oil a machine, make petro chemicals, transport goods with any number of barrels of water."

You can't grow vegetables, keep farm animals alive, make soup, wash the baby, or sustain basic life with any number of barrels of oil, either.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2014 2:29:59 AM

Evidence That This Topic is Misnamed
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2014 12:14:11 AM

"Of the nearly 40,000 oil and gas wells drilled since 2011"

There's your problem. That was 2011.
Our 200% annual rain fall was this past September as in the September that ended 13 days ago.
It was really dry here too in 2011, so dry to my north east up towards Amarillo it was so dry jack rabbits died of thirst.
The ones that didn't die of thirst a few years ago were endanger of drowning last month. That entire area was lit up with a flash flood warning at least once.

“At the height of California oil production in 1985, oil companies in Kern County pumped 1.1 billion barrels of water underground to extract 256 million barrels of oil—a ratio of roughly four and a half barrels of water for every barrel of oil,” according to Miller. “In 2008, Kern producers injected nearly 1.3 billion barrels of water to extract 162 million barrels of oil—a ratio of nearly eight barrels of water for every barrel of oil produced.”
“At the height of California oil production in 1985, oil companies in Kern County pumped 1.1 billion barrels of water underground to extract 256 million barrels of oil—a ratio of roughly four and a half barrels of water for every barrel of oil,” according to Miller. “In 2008, Kern producers injected nearly 1.3 billion barrels of water to extract 162 million barrels of oil—a ratio of nearly eight barrels of water for every barrel of oil produced."

So you think that if that water wasn't used in 1985 or 2008 for oil extraction some one would have taken the water and saved it and still have it today?
In reality if that water wasn't used it would have flowed down the river and out to sea and any water sucked out of a well has been replaced.

8 or 10 barrels of water for one barrel of oil still sounds like a good deal to me. I am glad you shared that, I thought oil extraction might have required a higher oil to water ratio.
You cant power your car, pave a road, fly a plane, oil a machine, make petro chemicals, transport goods with any number of barrels of water.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 10/13/2014 12:14:56 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 11:25:07 PM

Rumble - I used to live in Kern County California. How much water is taht compared to what else is available? Does it matter? Is Kern adn other valley type counties getting the water they are supposed to be getting from the systems that are supposed to move water from the Delta to the central valley? Why not - because of a minnow? What is more important water for people or dumping water into the ocean for a minnow. Gotta have priorities I guess.

Rumble your trying to come up with simplistic answers to discuss very complex questions. It aint gonna work.

How are you doing at that Sudbury place by the way?

Say didnt someone once say that extracting the oil sand stuff you folks want to ship south in the Keystone pipeline uses a bit of water also?



[Edited by: flyboyUT at 10/12/2014 11:26:19 PM EST]
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 9:23:10 PM

“At the height of California oil production in 1985, oil companies in Kern County pumped 1.1 billion barrels of water underground to extract 256 million barrels of oil—a ratio of roughly four and a half barrels of water for every barrel of oil,” according to Miller. “In 2008, Kern producers injected nearly 1.3 billion barrels of water to extract 162 million barrels of oil—a ratio of nearly eight barrels of water for every barrel of oil produced.”
How fracking is exacerbating drought across America
"Because it trades water for oil and methane, fracking is burning our future.
There’s no other way to put it."

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 10/12/2014 9:25:54 PM EST]
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 9:10:25 PM

"Nowhere is the nexus of fracking and water starker than in the Eagle Ford Shale in south Texas, which produces over 1.2 million barrels of oil and 6 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day. The Eagle Ford suffers from the biggest water challenges out of any shale play in the United States. It has the highest water consumption out of any other shale formation in the country right now. Over 90% of the water used in the affected counties comes from groundwater, as opposed to surface water, contributing to the depletion of aquifers."
Fracking poses water threat in drought-stricken states

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 10/12/2014 9:11:10 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 9:04:47 PM

Rumble - from your linked article on the problems in Pennsylvania - "In another twist, Range Resources was also recently slapped with the largest-ever fine against a Marcellus Shale driller in history — $4.15 million — for violations at the Yeager site. Those violations, so bad that the site has been forced to close, were mostly of leaks from its wastewater impoundments, which is the same thing Kiskadden alleged caused his own water well to be contaminated. Indeed, the biggest concern about fracking and its possibility to contaminate water is not from the drilling or fracking process itself, but from the faulty disposal of the massive amount of contaminated wastewater it produces. "

What that is saying is that the problem at that site is not from fracking but from the well drilling and the impoundment of wastewater from the drilling operation. In other words its contamination from surface sources not from the fracking process where water is injected deep underground. Therefore dont blame fracking for this problems please as its not specific to the fracking of wells.
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Yes Rumble we know that water is being used there. The question still is --- is it significant - does it matter? How much water compared to what? Canada uses many many metric tons of water for the cooling of buildings in the summer or for other industrial processes doesnt it. Is this significant? do the local people who live there regulate to some extent on what water is used for what. If you wished to dig up the info I bet you would find that more water is used for golf courses and lawns by far in those areas than water used to frack wells. What are our priorities?

Rumble as long as you still have this mess dont worry about someone elses minor problem.....
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 8:49:04 PM

"America's oil and gas rush is depleting water supplies in the driest and most drought-prone areas of the country, from Texas to California, new research has found.
Of the nearly 40,000 oil and gas wells drilled since 2011, three-quarters were located in areas where water is scarce, and 55% were in areas experiencing drought, the report by the Ceres investor network found."
Fracking is depleting water supplies in America's driest areas, report shows
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 8:43:59 PM

"A Pennsylvania official has admitted that he may have used faulty information to determine that fracking waste was not poisoning the drinking water supply at a man’s property in Washington County, according to a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette report."
Pa. Official Admits Errors In Investigation Of Whether Fracking Waste Spoiled Drinking Water
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 8:31:32 PM

btc I am saying what I did to try and put the risk into perspective.

Yes the risk really is pretty minimal. And if you would be honest and really compare the risks brought about by fracking as opposed to the "normal" risks that you and everyone else deals with every day you may see what I'm trying to say.

You yourself said you used to play with tobacco in the curing process didnt you. Do you mind thinking on the relative danger from that exposure to addictive toxins compared to the danger you might face from a fracked well in your county. How about the danger from toxic mine wastes from coal operations and the dangers from the burning of coal as opposed to fracking. Kentucky is noted for its coal operations and tobacco culture. Yet do yo worry about those dangers?Rumble I believe that wasting water at any time is foolish but I also dont think fracking as a tool is all that wasteful of water. One should say fracking uses water as compared to what. Do we 'waste' fresh water by using it for other industrial processes including transporting our wastes from home to disposal site.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 8:18:12 PM

" It is terminal stupidity to exacerbate drought by using water faster than aquifers naturally replenish, and that includes water used for fracking in areas of water shortage."

Say that fracking is banned in drought areas (which we know you would love) it wont stop fracking.
Then they just truck water in from further away. Making the process more expensive, less efficient and creating more evil CO2 in the process.

Drought stricken parts of eastern newmexico and west texas saw 200% of their anuual rain fall with in the month of September alone thanks to a more active west cost tropical storm season. By more active I mean closer to what we believe to be a normal level of activity.
So, what drought?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 7:37:39 PM

"You make it sound as if every fresh water river that reaches the sea is some kind of drinking water tragedy."

It is hard to have intelligent discourse with people so dismissive.
I said no such silly thing and you darn well know it. However, if one takes 2 gallons, say, of water out of an aquifer to contaminate with poison and flush into the rock formations, or use for industry, or any other use, in the time it refills by 1 gallon, it is not a renewable resource by any definition, and won't be until it can replenish at least as fast as we can use it. It is terminal stupidity to exacerbate drought by using water faster than aquifers naturally replenish, and that includes water used for fracking in areas of water shortage.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 10/12/2014 7:39:56 PM EST]
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 7:26:42 PM

fly has taken to the art of minimization. No matter what is pointed out as dangerous about fracking, it is nothing to take seriously.

Nothing to see here. Move along...Don't look over there!
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 6:57:15 PM

"Is anyone discussing the earthquake risk presented by fracking?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E3A-D8mAb4

Hopefully it does, an earth quake in the fracked shale bed will further shatter the shale releasing more gas, it would be like free fracking.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 10/12/2014 7:02:42 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 6:31:50 PM

Good question SGM. The information I have seen is that if there is any relationship it is tenuous at best and the only earthquakes that might be or may have been associated with fracking are so minor that they are almost imperceptible to us without instruments. As far as will fracking lead to a large quake - personally I dont think its anything to be worried about.

We have been fracking for 60 some odd years or so and nothing has been shown yet regarding quakes being a result or a problem tied to the process.

The other thing - the destructive quakes are all a result of earth movement much much deeper than the deepest well. Something like water wells range up to about 400 feet is considered really deep with most being 200 feet or less. The average fracked well is probably less than 10-12,000 feet deep
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And earthquakes are usually measured in miles deep - aka orders of magnitude deeper than wells.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 6:02:36 PM

Is anyone discussing the earthquake risk presented by fracking?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 12:09:56 PM

"Ninety-eight percent of the water on MY PLANET RARTH is in the oceans, unusable for drinking because it is salt water. About 2 percent of the planet's water is fresh, but 1.6 percent of the planet's water is locked up in the polar ice caps and glaciers.
Water can be considered a renewable material if carefully controlled usage, treatment, and release are followed. If not, it becomes a non-renewable resource at a partucular location.
For example, groundwater, if removed from an aquifer at a rate greater than its very slow natural recharge, is considered non-renewable.
Check out The USGS Water Sciences School".

You make it sound as if every fresh water river that reaches the sea is some kind of drinking water tragedy.

That's why I said "the earth is covered by 70% water and fresh water is a renewable resource, at least in most places in north America."

Is Canada one of those places where fresh water is non renewable?
Even then, why do you care what the southern U.S. does with their water?

I am sure more fresh water flows into the sea every second through rivers than what the frackers all over this country can use in a day.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 11:05:59 AM

Gly, whu do you not understand what I actualy said? Do you seriously believe we can keep injecting poisons into the earth forever without it coming back to haunt us? If so, I would likr to see the science. Isn't blind belief like the argument we used to hear that the people who smoked for decades were proof that smoking was safe? Or maybe you believe it is safe?
I have discussed fracking without the dangerous chemicals before. I have pointed out that off-shore fracking is done successfully with a far less toxic mix. We have alternatives available.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 12, 2014 10:49:12 AM

Rumble - you have made no attempt to discuss the issues I raised to you - why?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 11:44:22 PM

"Last time I checked the earth is covered by 70% water and fresh water is a renewable resource, at least in most places in north America."

"What planet are you on?"
Ninety-eight percent of the water on MY PLANET RARTH is in the oceans, unusable for drinking because it is salt water. About 2 percent of the planet's water is fresh, but 1.6 percent of the planet's water is locked up in the polar ice caps and glaciers.
Water can be considered a renewable material if carefully controlled usage, treatment, and release are followed. If not, it becomes a non-renewable resource at a partucular location.
For example, groundwater, if removed from an aquifer at a rate greater than its very slow natural recharge, is considered non-renewable.
Check out The USGS Water Sciences School.


[Edited by: rumbleseat at 10/11/2014 11:48:00 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 11:25:04 PM

"how much water is used for other industrial processes"

All industrial scale food operations I have seen use between 500 to 1500 gallons per minute, every minute, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week some where around 350 days a year or more.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 10/11/2014 11:26:17 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 11:22:02 PM

" billions of gallons of good water that is spent and gone."

What planet are you on?
Last time I checked the earth is covered by 70% water and fresh water is a renewable resource, at least in most places in north America.

"chemicals, such as fornaldehyde, mercury, and ethylene glycol, per well, forever, that will NEVER migrate? Are we really expected to bekieve we can continue to waste billions of gallons of valuable freash eater without consequences to agriculture and our supply of drinking water?"

Why does some one in Canada care what people in texas do to oil and gas wells?
You must really be afraid of fracking.

I know what chemicals they use around new mexico and texas and I have a lot worse stuff under my sink.
Washing your car in your yard pollutes the environment more than fracking.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 10:11:39 PM

Rumble - yes all those chemicals are or could be dangerous. Yes water is used.

Now to have some fun - how many dangerous chemicals are we exposed to each adn every day compared to the exposure from fracking? Should we be worried about the other sources or fracking?

Yes it does use water - how much water is used for that vs how much is used for other industrial processes as in the metals area or electronics or even in just flushing human waste using drinking quality water.

Yes Mercury is toxic - how much is generated during the industrial processes in Canada? Put the danger in relation to common events. Are you more worried about your drinking water being contaminated with fracking fluids or fecal coliform. Which happens more often?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 7:48:37 PM

To believe there is no danger in fracking, one has to ignore the deadly chemical stew injected into the earth. Are we really expected to bekieve we can continue to inject housands of gallons of chemicals, such as fornaldehyde, mercury, and ethylene glycol, per well, forever, that will NEVER migrate? Are we really expected to bekieve we can continue to waste billions of gallons of valuable freash eater without consequences to agriculture and our supply of drinking water?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 7:16:13 PM

What the heck btc since you started it I thought it was fine. Dont you like it when you are hoist on your own petard?

But I still say that based on only a little cursory research your author is even flakier than mine......

Hundreds of thousands of wells fracked and no major problems have arisen yet. Seems to say to most folks that it just might be a safe tool to use.

Now have some operators done bad things - probably yes they have but so have many other folks done dumb things. Because a few farmers had an accidental spill of fertilizer do you demand that all farmers stop fertilizing their crops?

Why btc I bet you that there have even been incidents of hydrocarbons being spilled at gas stations too - horrors we need to shut down all gas stations that are not operated by the EPA or something.

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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 6:20:36 PM

So, fly, it is okay for you to disqualify an author here in this topic that I present, but, that is not acceptable in the other topic?!!!

Okay I get it. Good for you bad for me...

At least my author is well versed on the subject, where yours only wrote ghost stories!

[Edited by: btc1 at 10/11/2014 6:22:26 PM EST]
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 5:47:46 PM

The writer of the article on CO2 fracking is the son of the former governor of Massachusetts.

Francis W. Sargent, the moderate Republican, defender of the environment and solver of fiscal crises who served as Governor of Massachusetts from 1969 to 1975, died in October 1998 in Dover, Mass. He was 83.

Mr. Sargent moved up from lieutenant governor when Gov. John Volpe was made Transportation Secretary in the Nixon Administration and was elected in 1970 over the Mayor of Boston, Kevin White, to a full term.

Mr. Sargent was also known for his delicately middle-of-the-road approach to Boston's busing strife and helped gain passage of a no-fault car insurance law. He backed public housing, environmental protections and a statute challenging the Vietnam War on legal grounds.

Mr. Sargent was born in Massachusetts, attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, (which led to a favorite motto of his: ''Don't ask me, I didn't go to Harvard.'') and went on to serve in a variety of state and Federal jobs involving fish, game, and other natural resources.

I think he would be proud of his son.
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 5:32:54 PM

A case for CO2 oil recovery

The big problem with water fracking is not aquifer contamination, but rather the billions of gallons of good water that is spent and gone.

The smart way to recover oil is by the use of CO2.
Read the story of a Massachusetts oil man in Texas. One oil well.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 10:31:10 AM

Just for fun btc I looked at some of the other stuff this guy has written ---
.
.
Extremist Climate Deniers Claim Historic Climate March Was An Attack On Their Way of Life

Lazy Republicans Need To Learn the Culture and Value of Work

Proof That Republicans Are Creating Poverty: America Is Number One In Low Wage Jobs

With Nothing To Run On Republicans Blow Religious Dog Whistles

The Koch Brothers, ALEC and the GOP Are Trying To Win The Election By Destroying Democracy

Republican Sequester Prevented Health Agencies From Stopping Ebola Spread

Right-Wing Justice Scalia is Crusading to Establish Religion by Constitutional Fiat

Always Evil Walmart Increases Profits While Cutting Employee Benefits

.
.
Do you see some kind of pattern there in the titles of the stuff he writes?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 10:20:54 AM

btc do you think it is just a bit possible that your author of the hit piece you linked is a tad biased.

Its funny - if there really was a problem I would expect the California state treehuggers would be going completely bonkers.

Until we get more information I will continue to say that fracking is not a major problem.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2014 10:10:42 AM

Report Confirms Fracking is Poisoning California’s Dwindling Aquifers

"In July, California state regulators, Department of Gas and Geothermal Resources (DOGGR), shut down eleven fracking wastewater injection wells over concerns that what precious water the severely drought-stricken state has left is being contaminated with toxins and carcinogens; particularly in highly productive agricultural areas. According to its due diligence, the agency the oil industry and Republicans hate above all others, the Environment Protection Agency (EPA), promptly ordered a report within 60 days to determine if the oil industry did indeed poison what little water California has left and what extent, if any, the damage might have on the agriculture industry and drinking water supply.

This past week, with little to no mention in the conservative media, the California State water Resources Board issued a report to the EPA confirming that yes, at least nine of the eleven fracking sites were deliberately dumping poisoned waste water directly into central California aquifers."
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