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Author Topic: Awww, Geeze! Will the Senator from KY make up his mind?!!! Back to Topics
btc1

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 1:10:13 PM

Filibustering Senator Rand Paul now says this about drone use.

"During an interview with Neil Cavuto on Fox Business Network Monday night, Paul attempted to make a distinction between the American “sitting in a café” example he has often cited and the “imminent threat” faced by Boston bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Friday night. “I’ve never argued against any technology being used when you have an imminent threat, an active crime going on,” Paul said. Though his next example offered up a disturbingly low bar for the predator drone option. “If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash,” he said, “I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”

Fine tuning a confused opinion.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 6:39:35 AM

For those of you that do not know, Paul was defending himself by saying he used the exact same words in his filibuster. Maybe he did but no in the same sentence. Probably about 10 difference sentences.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 12:22:16 AM

mini, it does go straight toward the partisan politics on this board and this subject is the easiest one to see it in. I started reading it and I was just laughing...I cannot believe that some have taken his words literally...come on, I am pretty sure some of you are smarter than that.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 11:38:02 PM

ministorage: ""I must say not all Democrats were deriding him. I must give props to sgm4law, who was one of a few brave Dems who stood with me on this at that time back in March. There were a couple others, but I don't remember. (I'm talking about solidly standing against the NDAA and Drone strikes against Americans clause.)"

sgm4law: "Good thing you stuck that in at the end. This policy is the worst thing about both Bush and Obama Administrations, and I'm glad you remember my stance."

That was not something I would forget. It was not lost on me by a long shot.

I was very surprised at how many Democrats were absolutely silent when President Obama re-upped the Patriot Act, after years of being very vocal and crying foul at President Bush for signing it. Many had assumed Obama was going to do away with it, but hardly a whimper was made when he signed it after taking office.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 11:32:07 PM

AFS: "The libs are taking his words literally like he really just wants to shoot anyone that commits a crime....and the right (mini) is defending comments by bringing other topics in (although people did bring Hannity into it also). This is a pretty good thread to read to see partisan at its best."

Of course, I was not defending Dr. Paul by bringing in comments from another thread. The Hannity piece was brought up by btc1 in another thread, and was a total non sequitur. I hadn't addressed his absurd comments, and so I took the opportunity to kill two birds in the same post (I shouldn't have, rather I should have gone over to the other thread--but that's why it was an aside at the bottom of that post). I also watched others run with it, with amusement.

As for the blatant partisans, I would agree, they are very easy to pick out in the crowd. Ayup. This topic is partisan as it gets.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 12:46:03 PM

>"This policy is the worst thing about both Bush and Obama Administrations, and I'm glad you remember my stance."

Two different issues between the administrations. During Bush, the potential for abuse was there. During Obama, the plan for abuse was uncovered. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm just making it clear as to the situation. I'm glad that people can see the potential for loss of freedom with this program. Why can't the same people see the potential for loss of freedom with proposed anti-gun legislation or a threat of Executive Order for the same?
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 12:32:24 PM

"I must say not all Democrats were deriding him. I must give props to sgm4law, who was one of a few brave Dems who stood with me on this at that time back in March. There were a couple others, but I don't remember. (I'm talking about solidly standing against the NDAA and Drone strikes against Americans clause.)"

Good thing you stuck that in at the end. This policy is the worst thing about both Bush and Obama Administrations, and I'm glad you remember my stance.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 11:09:20 AM

"The libs are taking his words literally like he really just wants to shoot anyone that commits a crime...."


LOL, the link I posted was comments from Paul's own supporters who were taken aback by his words.

And the Hannity nonsense...well that's another example of conservatives "thinking things through" when they show they don't know what they're talking about. Hannity is a idiot who is a champion of the right...but hey, I didn't bring him up, but if the shoe fits..

*ROTFL*
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 10:27:53 AM

I am just going to say that both sides in this thread are pretty funny to read. Honestly neither side sees the stupidity of both their arguments and this is one of the funniest threads to read yet. Blindness is extremely apparent here....

The libs are taking his words literally like he really just wants to shoot anyone that commits a crime....and the right (mini) is defending comments by bringing other topics in (although people did bring Hannity into it also). This is a pretty good thread to read to see partisan at its best.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 10:20:56 AM

btc1: "mini, if for some reason you have to think you are "winning!", well you just keep up with that mantra, Charlie. Especially, if it makes you feel better!"

Thanks; this stuff isn't about winning. I try to do what is right.

I think it's pretty clear who is the one here who is willing to get a win at any cost. 2014 is your chance to show me you've turned a new leaf.

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 7:47:56 AM

"Solid reasoning is not an exclusive commodity of talk show hosts and others on the national stage. Anyone with the ability to think things through can process given information and come up with the same conclusions that Hannity does."


And I guess the reason that Hannity never kept his own pledge to be waterboarded for charity (because he was going to prove it wasn't torture) is that he thought it through and realized that it was in fact torture that he would not subject himself to...or perhaps he was a lying coward who can't keep his own word and has faulty reasoning when he attempts to "think things through"?

Indeed, when some conservatives "think things through" they make utter fools of themselves.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 7:41:52 AM

btc1 said: "I do not watch Hannity, either. I listen to him at work on the radio in the afternoons. I find it very interesting that the stuff he puts out is parroted here, daily. However no one here claims to listen to him!"

Solid reasoning is not an exclusive commodity of talk show hosts and others on the national stage. Anyone with the ability to think things through can process given information and come up with the same conclusions that Hannity does.

Your problem is that you liberals can't seem to reason on your own, so must get your talking points from sources like Obozo, HuffingtonPost, Salon, DemocraticUnderground and the now defunct Air America. Just because YOU can't think for yourself, don't assume that others are in the same boat!

[Edited by: jeskibuff at 4/24/2013 7:43:24 AM EST]
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gassprite
Champion Author Toms River

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 7:00:03 AM

>>She.

Ayn Rand was not a libertarian. Neither is Rand Paul. That's kind of my point. In Ayn Rand's case you had a mentally ill but very intelligent and charismatic person who came up with a sick pseudo philosophy. In Rand Paul's case, you have an ardent sycophant.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 6:46:35 AM

mini, if for some reason you have to think you are "winning!", well you just keep up with that mantra, Charlie.

Especially, if it makes you feel better!

[Edited by: btc1 at 4/24/2013 6:47:55 AM EST]
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 1:01:22 AM

"Gee, I don't know... what was it that Dr. Paul was filibustering against, that somebody else was for? "


It sounds like Rand was against using drones on American citizens before he was for it:

"“I am stunned by Rand's statement. Unmanned killers in our skys O.K.??? Really?” one poster wrote on a message board in the Daily Paul, a website for fans of both Rand Paul and his father Ron, the former Texas congressman and presidential candidate.

“The guy is simultaneously capable of great good and evil it seems. Scares me. What are our alternatives? I don't know but, I am looking,” the poster wrote.

On his official Facebook page, fans issued similar criticism.

“If someone robs a liquor store, they get due process. Who decides who is guilty? The drone navigator?” one poster asked.

“Which is it Senator Paul?! Where do you stand?! This sickens me! I was just beginning to believe in you, too!” another chimed in."



*Facepalm* some of Rand's own supporters are scratching their heads...
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 10:46:05 PM

Yeah, btc, I am really diggin' this one, because it is bringing out a LOT of hypocrisy. And not where you and some Dems are expecting. It's another backfire.

Dr. Paul was filibustering Brennan's nomination vote, but he was using Obama's NDAA and Holder's Department's insistance (and wording) which said they CAN do just that. Dr. Paul wouldn't vote for Brennan until he got a promise from the Obama Admin that they wouldn't!

It's really sad watching ignorant Democrats who forgot this inconvenient fact (or who simply don't even know) now flipping and coming out against the very things I've been against all along. But when Dr. Paul was filibustering against it they were calling him names and deriding him for it. I remember it was a weird time with people on both sides coming together.

I must say not all Democrats were deriding him. I must give props to sgm4law, who was one of a few brave Dems who stood with me on this at that time back in March. There were a couple others, but I don't remember. (I'm talking about solidly standing against the NDAA and Drone strikes against Americans clause.)

IMHO
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 10:11:10 PM

mini, you do have to admit, that, a lot of the topics I start create a lot of discussion.

Isn't that really the purpose here. To create discussion, no matter where it leads....really.
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jayrad1957
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 9:34:58 PM

"Ayn Rand Paul is quite the libertarian, isn't he.

She.
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gassprite
Champion Author Toms River

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 9:27:49 PM

Ayn Rand Paul is quite the libertarian, isn't he. If someone steals $50, it is reason enough, in Paul's small brain, to call out the drones and blast the thief to kingdom come. What a complete lunatic Paul is.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 9:05:57 PM

<<I find it very interesting that the stuff he puts out is parroted here, daily.>>

There are two parallel echo chambers out there. There is the right wing one and the left wing one. One person on either side puts something out there, and it gets picked up and cycled through the chamber until everyone on that side is repeating it. Then it ends up here. Sometimes it gets here on Gasbuddies sooner than it makes it through the whole media cycle, too.

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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 9:04:13 PM

"WTH does Obama have to do with any of this topic?"

Gee, I don't know... what was it that Dr. Paul was filibustering against, that somebody else was for?

"Absolutely nothing."

You may want to think that through, Jay

"As Norm said, ODS running rampant."

Optical Data Storage?

[Edited by: ministorage at 4/23/2013 9:06:10 PM EST]
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 9:01:11 PM

“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash,” he said, “I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”

Wait, what? Now we have the vigilante death penalty for robbery? Wow! No wonder he doesn't care how such "justice" is administered...
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jayrad1957
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 7:58:59 PM

"WTH does Obama have to do with any of this topic?"

Absolutely nothing. As Norm said, ODS running rampant.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 7:56:26 PM

AFS, Paul had always made the "no imminent threat" distinction in his query about the drone program.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 6:54:57 PM

"WTH does Obama have to do with any of this topic?"


ODS my friend; ODS!
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 6:27:23 PM

Are you now getting an idea of which American citizens Obama would use the drones to kill?

Think Boston Marathon.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 6:25:51 PM

WTH does Obama have to do with any of this topic?
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 6:22:16 PM

"How many times, have we heard obama say something, then try to back track it a few days later?'

He misspoke...that is how a Republican feels. You need to understand these liberals better.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:31:45 PM

noseatbelt: "How many times, have we heard obama say something, then try to back track it a few days later?"

I lost count.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:30:00 PM

btc1: "Are you serious!!? I have to be in top form to run against the ruthless Mitch McConnell!!"

For anyone to make as many slip ups on threads like this, when you have the opportunity to edit and correct what you've said, I have to ask (myself) if you are really serious. (I get that you're telling me that you are.)

"Nothing is off the table for him! Why should it be for his opponent?!!"

IOW, there is no low you wouldn't stoop?

btc1: "Get over your self-serving indignation, my friend. You are as transparent as your buddy, Paul."

How am I being self-serving? I'm recognizing you for who you are and what you're doing. You're the one who called him a racist in 2010 and started a another thread to demonize him. You are one to call somebody else self-serving and transparent.

I do like this better than the Ashley Judd scenario. Good luck with that. Too bad it's just a pipe dream.

[Edited by: ministorage at 4/23/2013 5:31:44 PM EST]
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Cliffisher
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:25:59 PM

"“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash,” he said, “I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”"

Ready for a Rand Paul backpedel.

Every concealed gun carrying NRA member that walks out of a liquor with $50 is an open target?

What if he walks out with a bottle of Capt. Morgan and $48 bucks.

Still open target?
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noseatbelt
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:20:35 PM

Off the cuff, without thinking it thru, would you vote for someone who did? evidently, a lot of people did, obama got re elected. How many times, have we heard obama say something, then try to back track it a few days later?
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:17:09 PM

"Yeah, it was poorly worded, but what's even worse is that there ARE people who would approve of drones or police killing people over $50."

One would think that a Doctor-turned-politician would be more precise in his use of language.



"Heck, in texas, they sent a man to jail for 16 years for stealing a $1 snickers candy bar and were proud that they got the conviction too:"

What's really surprising is that Mr. Payne didn't fall victim to the death penalty because of his sweet-tooth.

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 4/23/2013 5:18:11 PM EST]
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:16:42 PM

mini, "and the more obvious it is Mike Crowe for US Senate was never even a real consideration)."

Are you serious!!? I have to be in top form to run against the ruthless Mitch McConnell!! Nothing is off the table for him! Why should it be for his opponent?!! Get over your self-serving indignation, my friend. You are as transparent as your buddy, Paul.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 5:12:24 PM

"I doubt it would be far from what he thinks."

Yeah, I know. He's got a R after his name. Your objectivity concerning Dr. Paul is down at gutter level.

The closer we get to 2014, the nastier you're going to get (and the more obvious it is Mike Crowe for US Senate was never even a real consideration).

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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:54:16 PM

The judgement made, by Paul of guilt before innocence is a violation of our Constitution. He just threw it out the window. Now do you really think someone who has come this far in his "unannounced" run for President but, likes being part of the discussion would make such a statement "off-the-cuff" without thinking it through? Would you vote for someone who did? There is no pressure on him at this time as he "contemplates the run for President", except the pressure he has placed on himself to get as much airtime as possible for free, before he makes the announcement. And he has the example of his father's multiple runs for that office, for experience in dealing with such questions.

Now, really, poorly worded? I doubt it would be far from what he thinks. He is most certainly not a political ingenue.

[Edited by: btc1 at 4/23/2013 4:55:44 PM EST]
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:44:57 PM

"Still, I don't like the way Dr. Paul worded it, but as many times as these gentlemen and ladies are interviewed, they will slip up. I don't approve of drones killing robbers over 50 bucks (and I can't imagine he really does, either)."


Yeah, it was poorly worded, but what's even worse is that there ARE people who would approve of drones or police killing people over $50. Heck, in texas, they sent a man to jail for 16 years for stealing a $1 snickers candy bar and were proud that they got the conviction too:

"Jack Skeen, district attorney in Tyler, was quoted by the Tyler Morning Telegraph as saying the punishment fit Kenneth Payne III's background as a habitual offender. Payne, 29, had 10 prior convictions and was on parole for felony theft when he stole a Snickers bar from a convenience store, Skeen said."The message from this case is that regardless of the value of the item stolen, a habitual criminal reaches a point where a jury and a prosecutor say enough is enough," Skeen told the newspaper."



You know I don't make this stuff up....
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:35:22 PM

paul is a opportunist, political opinion or not. probably, like 99.9% of all politicians, but I don't remember ever seeing you say that about obama, reid, pelosi, biden, or any of the other democrats that are just as guilty of it as Rand paul.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:32:19 PM


"So now we're just killing people on assumptions of their having committed a crime?"

If he's got a gun running out of a liquor store I'll assume he's committing a crime. If he's shooting it, I'll assume he's going to harm me. If he's got a gun and running out of the liquor store and not shooting it, I'll assume there's a likelihood he could harm me.

Still, I don't like the way Dr. Paul worded it, but as many times as these gentlemen and ladies are interviewed, they will slip up. I don't approve of drones killing robbers over 50 bucks (and I can't imagine he really does, either).

On these threads, we have time to edit what we say. They're on the spot. I wouldn't want to be a politician. I can't imagine btc1 would really want to go through that. It takes a special kind of person, and i know I'm not that type.

IMHO
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:22:49 PM

"“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash,” he said, “I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”"


So now we're just killing people on assumptions of their having committed a crime?

That lowered bar and slippery slope have combined to almost reach the depths of no return...

SMH
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:22:06 PM

"Paul is just an opportunist, political opinion or not."

I would take it you are the one being opportunistic right now.

This thread is clearly for one reason -- to demonize Rand Paul. You've done that from the very beginning, before you knew anything about him. And you didn't care how low you had to go to demonize him.

I see nothing has changed. I would expect nothing less from an old, admitted political hack like yourself.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 4:19:38 PM

btc1, it would be dishonest to imply I have parroted anything he's said.

I also don't recall anyone who does watch or listen to him denying listening to him.

It was a red herring. I have found when you get yourself in a corner, you do that.

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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 3:34:40 PM

mini, I do not watch Hannity, either. I listen to him at work on the radio in the afternoons. I find it very interesting that the stuff he puts out is parroted here, daily. However no one here claims to listen to him!

Paul is just an opportunist, political opinion or not.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 3:23:04 PM

Yeah, on the surface, it sounds like he's having trouble straddling that fence. I'd like to listen to the entire interview. We need to protect our citizens without issuing martial law. I think the way it was handled in Boston was an example of a desensitizing of us for the new rules for the future, which I find disturbing.

IMHO

Politicizing it only shows your pure and absolute partisanism, btc1.

(Oh, and btw, I don't watch Hannity, so I had no way to know you were referring to something you and your buddy Sean were discussing; re: the thread last night. I took you at face value--you said Mass had outlawed guns.)
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 3:07:19 PM

“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and fifty dollars in cash,” he said, “I don’t care if a drone kills him or a policeman kills him.”

Nevermind the trial by one's peers or the presumption of innocense. Shoot now... ask questions later. Life at $50 a pop is a cheap way to make one seem like a manly-man, isn't it?

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 4/23/2013 3:10:04 PM EST]
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