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kiatoindos
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 16, 2013 9:36:23 AM

Good keep it that way!
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: May 16, 2013 12:09:55 AM

Someone had a great idea. They went to prisons and asked people convicted of gun crimes where they got their guns. The anti-gun crowds should stop reading at this point.

Most of the criminals (80%) got their guns through back-alley street sales or from relatives. Less than 2% took advantage of the "gun show loophole."
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: May 11, 2013 10:58:16 AM

greentre - I also agree that adding radioisotopes could make shooting as a sport hazardous due to ingestion, inhalation or other exposure to radioactivity. Not good. We don't want to poison the land with such compounds, even if short lived. And like pennies, lots of folks keep ammo around for years.

Now, as to keeping a fingerprint of each gun, I'm not necessarily opposed to that. What if the manufacturer of a weapon fired one test round out of every weapon, scanned it, and sent it (along with the s/n of the gun) someplace like BATF. Then bullets recovered from crimes could be matched to the data base to see what the s/n of the gun is, then law enforcement could go back through sales records to see the chain. However, I wonder if that wouldn't be a de-facto silent registration? Also, there are some easy ways to alter the characteristics of the gun so that the test bullet isn't valid anymore, but I won't go into that.
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kiatoindos
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 10, 2013 7:46:59 PM

The way it should be
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 6:15:25 PM

"tagging powder with radio active isotopes will be the answer"

Could that be prosecuted as setting off miniature 'dirty bombs'?

I read that Nut York has been compiling a ballistic fingerprint database:

"New York has had its database up and running since 2002 and has since entered data from over 200,000 new gun purchases and has spent approximately $1,000,000 a year on its system. By 2007 the system had not led to a single solved crime."

That worked out really well.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 12:54:48 PM

AC, I have no idea and wouldn't know. I wouldn't be surprised either.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 10:40:42 AM

"Even if their policies make it worse.

It's the thought that counts."

Thats the only possible thing left, nothing else makes sense.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 8:49:15 AM


Cirdan, "You going to put a different mixture together for every box of ammo sold? They can come as small as boxes of 25. If not, they don't tell you much"

It doesn't have to make rational sense on the left - the important thing to them is that they "feel" they have done something constructive.

Even if their policies make it worse.

It's the thought that counts.

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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 3:20:55 AM

Whats next?
Maybe they will think tagging powder with radio active isotopes will be the answer.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 3:17:49 AM

"It was blocked back then also by our wonderful bought and paid for congress".

They were able to grasp simple statistics and decided against it.
The case to support micro tagging smokeless powder was so pointless even the idiots up on the hill understood it.

"Let's say Powder Company Alpha makes a one thousand pound batch of FFF powder. This is packaged in standard 1 & 8 pound containers. They divide it 50/50 between the containers. Now you have 62 eight pound containers and 500 one pound containers. These are sent to several distributors in Georgia. Distributor Alpha in Georgia sells ten 1lb containers. These ten people are from Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee. One pound of powder will reload about 1400 rounds of 9mm (we'll use handgun ammo for the anti-gunners out there since it is used in more crimes). So, we now have the possibility of one distributor spreading one lot of taggants to up to 14,000 rounds of ammo in four states. If any of this ammo is lost, stolen or traded the the 'trail' becomes even more murky. Remember, we haven't added the other 490 one pound containers or the 62 eight pound containers".

In a nut shell that sums it up very well.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 1:33:50 AM

Taggants sounds like another dumb idea from people who don't know what they are talking about. You going to put a different mixture together for every box of ammo sold? They can come as small as boxes of 25. If not, they don't tell you much. Certainly not as much as ballistics will.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2013 12:22:15 AM

greentre - Microstamping? Ahh, yes. Once again a "dreamer's" technology that exists not as hardware, nor software, but as "vaporware" as they say in my industry. It's hard to put in a technology that doesn't exist. Then again, what't to stop me from etching the stamp off either chemically or with a machine tool, or with a simple bit of emery paper?

OH, and Plastic - my understanding is that modern "smokeless powder" is primarily cellulose nitrate of various chip sizes and shapes. Some are very thin slices of squares, some are small "rods", some are thin circles, some are tiny beads. The shapes and packing contribute to it's burn speed, thus differentiating fast rifle powders from slower burning pistol or shotgun powders. Some powders are "dual base" - nitroguanadine and nitrocellulose. But they're not as common. As far as NC powders go, I shouldn't think there's much difference, chemically speaking from one another. They usually start from cotton fiber, as I understand, and I wouldn't think that a natural product like that, even after chemical digestion, would be specific enough to any manufacturer? But I could be surprised..
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 10:40:37 PM

Cool stuff!
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 8:50:03 PM

I had seen Oilpans' post on the additives but thought I would add exactly why the taggants aren't included, including the impossibility of tracing the final destination on one small run of powder/explosive. Considering the gunpowder manufacturers were producing upwards of 20 million pounds of powder in the '90s you can see the problem. I agree with him also, you can tell the difference just by the smell of the powders.

Anyone care to comment on ballistic 'fingerprinting' or 'microstamping'? <BIG grin>
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 6:14:51 PM

Thanks for the paste, greentre but oilpan already provided the detail. Apparently each manufacturer still has a different chemical composition even without the use of markers or "taggants" as you posted. Interesting stuff though.
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 5:56:28 PM

Just in case anyone was interested:

Traceable gunpowder was a project of the '80s and '90s. The 'traceability' was through the use of 'taggants'.

“Taggants are ingenious, colorful, tiny and indestructible. Using color codes, these microscopic chips mark batches of explosives the way that bar codes mark supermarket products. Crime scene investigators retrieve the taggants at a blast site, using ultraviolet light and magnetic collectors, then can trace the location and date of the explosive's origin.”

The reason taggants have not been incorporated as found in a request from the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs.

“Evidence has been found of reactivity between the identification taggants and smokeless powder, as well as [explosive] booster material. This reactivity creates a presumption of incompatibility. Until this presumed incompatibility is resolved, taggants cannot be safely added to these explosive materials.”

Since this would create a dangerous environment for the consumer of gunpowder and other explosives, the project was dropped. I have seen more recent proposals for the introduction of taggants again, but the same problem remains.

Other problems exist with the use of taggants. Let's examine one problem:

Let's say Powder Company Alpha makes a one thousand pound batch of FFF powder. This is packaged in standard 1 & 8 pound containers. They divide it 50/50 between the containers. Now you have 62 eight pound containers and 500 one pound containers. These are sent to several distributors in Georgia. Distributor Alpha in Georgia sells ten 1lb containers. These ten people are from Alabama, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee. One pound of powder will reload about 1400 rounds of 9mm (we'll use handgun ammo for the anti-gunners out there since it is used in more crimes). So, we now have the possibility of one distributor spreading one lot of taggants to up to 14,000 rounds of ammo in four states. If any of this ammo is lost, stolen or traded the the 'trail' becomes even more murky. Remember, we haven't added the other 490 one pound containers or the 62 eight pound containers.


[Edited by: greentre at 4/26/2013 5:57:54 PM EST]
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 5:44:13 PM

So now that Obama has used the Newtown survivors as a back drop for his anti-gun positions, one can't help but wonder how using the Boston survivors in anti-illeagal immigration reform would be received.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 3:11:18 PM

They want their group to take the responsibility. The actual actors will either kill themselves or they'll flee and evade capture. So this is still a good tool to gather intelligence as to the source. Do we really want to rely on some terrorist group jumping up and down saying, "we did it"?
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 3:04:59 PM

"Which is actually a huge lead. Say maybe three of those stores, that sell that brand, are in the Boston area and of those three stores, two report regular reloader customers that they know by name and the other store reports some punkass kid buying powder oh and here is the video of the kid."

Except one problem with even that process...these terrorists almost always want people to know they were responsible...and will act fast. It still will not prevent an attack and just like this last case...it just didn't matter who did it to the victims that died.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 12:27:04 PM

md11capt said: "AC Thanks for your list. Also, I accept your apology."

--You really don't have good reading comprehension, do you? So, you gonna comment? I noticed you have nothing to say to defend your own position. So I take it that you're doing this as "feel good" measures, not as anything that will seriously save lives.

OH, and didn't the Columbine kids manufacture some explosive devices? How would even total gun control have prevented those deaths?
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 11:53:39 AM

"This was tried in the 1990s and went no where.'

It was blocked back then also by our wonderful bought and paid for congress.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 10:45:21 AM

Background checks for ILLEGAL aliens!
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 10:28:03 AM

>"And then they can say without doubt it was bought at one of over 1,000 stores by over 100,000 people!"

Which is actually a huge lead. Say maybe three of those stores, that sell that brand, are in the Boston area and of those three stores, two report regular reloader customers that they know by name and the other store reports some punkass kid buying powder oh and here is the video of the kid.

[Edited by: plastic at 4/26/2013 10:29:22 AM EST]
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 10:22:08 AM

plastic, you are correct. However they can only narrow it down to a manufacturer and perhaps a time period it was manufactured. Other than that there is no way to trace it. And then they can say without doubt it was bought at one of over 1,000 stores by over 100,000 people! :-)

[Edited by: AFSNCO at 4/26/2013 10:23:20 AM EST]
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 4:34:45 AM

>" This was tried in the 1990s and went no where."

Let me guess; that was the result of legislators thinking that they know what they're doing?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 11:13:53 PM

" don't know the particulars but it has something to do with the chemical makeup is different between the different manufacturers and they can narrow down the source of the powder from a chemical analysis".

I reload my own ammo and you can tell what powder it is by smell a lot of times, but all that will do is give you a manufacturer.
If they wanted to tag the same powder with something that will show up differently like a lot number then that would hurt the consistancy of the powder, because they would be dumping bunch of different heavy metals in the powder.
This was tried in the 1990s and went no where.

Doesn't look like much has changed.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 5:11:37 PM

>"What is "traceable gunpowder" and how would it work?"

Oilpan, I don't know the particulars but it has something to do with the chemical makeup is different between the different manufacturers and they can narrow down the source of the powder from a chemical analysis. That was never in my training or expertise but I hope that answer suffices until someone more knowledgeable can share more.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 4:14:22 PM

Well since we are only going to be able to have a three shot clip I guess we will have to get the Joe Biden style. Yu know the one that holds either 18 33 caliber bullets or 54+ 22 caliber bullets. Joe's special home defense gun can shoot all those bullets in less than a second too.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 3:31:37 PM

These libs just want to do something...understandable because so many of them let emotion rule their decision making...but in their rush to do something logic is completely lacking.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 3:29:09 PM

What is "traceable gunpowder" and how would it work?

"Three shot clips - get real. a revolver has 5 or 6 shots".

Remember there are modern big bore revolvers that hold up to 7 or 8 round and some 22 revolvers hold up to 10 shots.

" It's a liberal boogie man."
Thats the best analogy ever.
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md11capt
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 1:59:19 PM

AC

Thanks for your list. Also, I accept your apology.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 11:48:47 AM

>"Why not so our most precious resource - our children?"

Because that's a liberal dream to have increased taxes "for the children". Plus that's a good way to get the brown shirts in the government indoctination camp.. I mean schools.

Just remove the "gun free zone" law so that killers will no longer see schools as an easy unarmed target.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 11:45:51 AM

Md's list:

1 background checks [We already have background checks]
2 better mental healthcare in this country [Mental healthcare is not bad but the bureaucratic system in a hinderance]
3 Three shot clips [That's just truly absurd. You wouldn't even need a clip if there was a three-round capacity.]
4 traceable gunpowder [Gun powder is traceable.]
5 lock you guns up when you're not hunting or at the range [This is to be done on a case by case basis. Very bad idea to try to make that mandatory.]
6 National registry [VERY BAD IDEA!!! I could give you a LIST of countries that will tell you how bad of an idea that is!]
7 Close the gun show loophole. [I asked you earlier to define this so-called "loophole". You have not. It's a liberal boogie man.]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 10:47:43 AM

Down below md11capt posted: "Oh, pardon me. The list of items to keep people safe from being shot."

--By items, do you mean objects in the physical world? Hmmm... dragonscale armor? Flak jackets and bullet-proof vests? A cloak of invisibility would also be helpful, now wouldn't it?

You shouldn't have said "a list of items", you should have asked for a list of IDEAS. A very poor way of phrasing yourself, being that you ought to be an educated man md. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. Now, we could be so much more productive on the topic if you would actually acknowledge your ignorance on the subject and ask for a little help from those of us who are more knowlegeable. And if you would try to be more open and non-insulting, we might actually be able to talk out what of your ideas might actually work, with modification, vs those that are downright silly. As I and others have said before, legislation by "feel good" is never good legislation. What you are proposing are, mostly, knee jerk reactions, not ones that are well thought out or reasoned.

Try reading my responses to you carefully, rather than skimming them. If you like, let's talk about your ideas. If you can be measured, then I'd be pleased to exchange ideas with you. If you can't be, then that's fine. I can tell by your responses you won't be on these boards for too long. Sooner or later you'll go over the edge and *poof* - you'll be gone.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 10:35:19 AM

md11capt - are you, perchance, illiterate?

If not, how come you didn't read my response to your points? Do you agree, disagree, or what? By your insults, I can tell I'm REALLY getting under your skin!

OH, and we can tell you know nothing about firearms when you use the term "clip" instead of the correct term "magazine". A "clip" is used to load a magazine, ususally an internal one.

Here, now, what would I do?

1) VIGOROUSLY enforce the laws that are already on the books. That would include investigating and prosecuting background check failures, where warranted.

2) Improved mental health care.

3) If someone is identified at a school or other institution as being "disturbed" or making credible threats, have them investigated. However, there has to be some kind of ombudsman or advocate to prevent someone from grudgingly "dropping a dime" on someone else out of spite. After all, this is a constitutional right.

4) I would be OK with armed guards on school campuses. We protect money, banks, the President and dignitaries with armed guards. Why not so our most precious resource - our children?

[Edited by: AC-302 at 4/25/2013 10:37:12 AM EST]
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 10:03:25 AM

LOL....pop...

BTW, the problem with the mental health thing is as soon as we demand access to their records the lawyers are going to come out of the woodwork to defend their right to privacy. But that is where the answer lies....
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 9:51:48 AM

1 background checks - happens already

2 better mental healthcare in this country - So what is the answer? Lock people away that MAY POSSIBLY be a danger. You can't use mental health records against someone. Dr patient confidentiality

3 Three shot clips - get real. a revolver has 5 or 6 shots.

4 traceable gunpowder - You have to show a drivers license to purchase.

5 lock you guns up when you're not hunting or at the range - DUA... people do that. Except the people that live in high crime area that need access to the gun faster then other people.

6 National registry - Would you like us to wear a yellow six pointed star also???

7 Close the gun show loophole. - what loophole? if you go to a gun show & buy a gun. The transfer MUST be done thru an FFL with the background check. If you sell the gun privately to your next door neighbor....SO WHAT?There is the answers to your list. I know others will add to what I replied
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md11capt
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 9:16:04 AM

You're right AC you have no ideas. But you make up for it by your incoherent rants. Here are my proposals to eliminate gun violence:

For starters:

1 background checks
2 better mental healthcare in this country
3 Three shot clips
4 traceable gunpowder
5 lock you guns up when you're not hunting or at the range
6 National registry
7 Close the gun show loophole.

What are yours?
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 10:53:45 PM

md11capt - you kept asking for lists, and I had no idea in Heaven, Hell or Earth WHAT you were asking for. After your last post, I still don't know. Items to keep people from getting shot? What does that even mean in context? I think you were right earlier on about yourself, you are not demonstrating much in the way of logic on this topic.

Cliffsher said: "No loophole? When was the last time you were at a gun show? The last one I was at had people walking around with two or three AR-15 weapons for sale. The guns even had a price tag attached. You give them the cash - they give you the weapon. Fast and simple."

--But that's a private sale between individuals. And that private sale can occur at a gun show, or at someone's house or wherever. These folks aren't dealers. There are proposals to make sure private sales are also subject to the IBC. BTW - here in the Land of Fruits and Nuts, all private sales are to go through a licensed dealer so that even private transfers are via the IBC. This is the law here. Some other states have the same law, but I couldn't name them off hand.

Oh, last time I was at a gun show? Hmmm... 1998. I bought an SKS carbine, and yes, I had to present a license and fill out the federal forms.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 6:30:15 PM

What this all boils down to is how much of your freedom are you willing to give up in return for how much safety? As you get closer to complete safety the amount of freedom that you must give up for each tiny incremental increase in safety becomes immense, because the only way to have perfect safety is to have no freedom whatsoever. The terrorists know this only too well, and one of their goals is to try to push us further and further along the curve of trading ever more freedom for an ever smaller incremental increase in safety, because they rightly believe that if we go far enough along that path the country will fail by either going broke or becoming a police state.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 4/24/2013 6:31:43 PM EST]
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md11capt
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 6:10:22 PM

Oh, pardon me. The list of items to keep people safe from being shot.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 3:14:24 PM

Md11, you asked AC for lists days ago. Your request did not make any sense to me. I figured you made a mistake and dropped it but here you are asking again. Since I must be missing something, please tell me what lists you're asking from AC.
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md11capt
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 3:10:35 PM

Where are your lists?

[Edited by: md11capt at 4/24/2013 3:11:10 PM EST]
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 9:19:13 AM

Every Gun Show I have been to. Even if you were selling a gun privately. You had to have someone with a FFL do the transfer.
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 9:54:50 AM

"7 Close the gun show loophole.
---explain EXACLY what you mean by the "loophole"? If you buy a gun at a gun show, you are supposed to be subject to the federal IBC. Any dealer that fails to do this will be fined and will be shut down. So describe EXACTLY what this means in the context of what you mean. There is no "gun show loophole" that I am aware of, but explain yourself, please."

You are really going to go with this?

No loophole?

When was the last time you were at a gun show?

The last one I was at had people walking around with two or three AR-15 weapons for sale. The guns even had a price tag attached.

You give them the cash - they give you the weapon.

Fast and simple.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 8:32:05 AM

A background check didn't stop Cho at Virginia Tech. His mental deficiencies were not reported because his privacy was a concern. Thus he bought two guns and murdered 32.
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md11capt
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 10:15:33 PM

Interesting AC-302. Where' your list?
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:59:58 PM


SemiSteve, "It was a policy change beginning around 1960. Since then people who would have been institutionalized are generally not. Many end up homeless. If they get into trouble they end up dead (after a shoot out, for instance) or in prison"

U.S. Supreme Court - O'CONNOR v. DONALDSON, 422 U.S. 563 (1975)

"MR. JUSTICE STEWART delivered the opinion of the Court

In short, a State cannot constitutionally confine without more a nondangerous individual who is capable of surviving safely in freedom by himself or with the help of willing and responsible family members or friends. Since the jury found, upon ample evidence, that O'Connor, as an agent of the State, knowingly did so confine Donaldson, it properly concluded that O'Connor violated Donaldson's constitutional right to freedom"

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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:37:35 PM

Now, down below, md11capt made some suggestions. Let's discuss them point by point:
1 background checks
---Not opposed to background checks. But you forget that we have them now. I just saw something in American Hunter that said in 2012 there were ~76000 "no sales" from folks failing the federal IBC. Of that, exactly 62 were recommended for prosecution and only about 20 resulted in convictions. Before you propose something that we're already doing, why not enforce the laws already on the books in a VIGOROUS fashion??

2 better mental healthcare in this country
---No argument there. However, it does cost money. How much more are you willing to give of your hard earned money to this cause? It's a hard sell, but I do agree it's required. This is where Obama ought to be putting his efforts, not in demonizing guns.

3 Three shot clips
--Do you understand what a "clip" is, as opposed to a "magazine"? OK, does that mean outlawing common 6 shot revolvers? And will that apply to black powder firearms as well? And how are you going to prevent folks from modifying these mags ("clips as you are incorrectly calling them") to hold more shots? And how are you even going to participate in shooting sports that require 10 rounds, or 5 for that matter? And what of varmint hunters that need more? What of combat shooting?

Speaking of which, below you mentioned that anyone that needs more than two rounds is a bad shot. Hmmm... I was taught to do a double tap to the chest, followed by a tap to the head, if I caught an intruder and if he didn't immediately drop. That's three shots. Great! What if there's two intruders? And have you ever been in such a situation? By chance, are you familiar with the sport of biathalon? Skiing (or sometimes running), then shooting targets at a station. The physical activity (tiring you out) is a substitute for the stress of combat. Jog a mile in, say 10 minutes, then try shooting a target. If you can hit 5 out of 5 standard light bulbs within about 10 seconds, with 5 shots, then I'll cede the point. In a stress situation, shooting isn't anything like shooting non-moving paper targets.

4 traceable gunpowder
--An interesting idea. I've heard of adding "taggins" (tagged molecules) to things like fertilizer to be able to trace it. What the 'tag' is, I don't know. But I'd be interested in the proposal. Does every single batch ever produced have to have a unique tag? Will it survive the pressure and heat of combustion? And do you understand the technology, or are you proposing something you don't understand? A law was proposed here at one time to force guns to have microstamping of ammo. Great, but the technology doesn't really exist. It's not a good idea to propose something for which a technology doesn't exist. Unless, of course, your proposal is to de facto BAN the propellants (powders) used in ammo, thus banning ammo. But fret not, that would be ruled by the courts as a de facto gun ban.

5 lock you guns up when you're not hunting or at the range
--..and most folks do. But isn't that a personal choice within one's home? If I want to keep a loaded handgun in my night table, and I have no kids at home.. well, that's nobody's business buy my own.

6 National registry
---We have laws that supposedly forbid this. Tell me, how does a national registry of guns prevent gun violence. And the purpose of the second amendment comes into play here. It is in place, in part, to prevent tyranny of the government against the people. Registries were used in 1930s Germany to REMOVE guns from the law abiding, in order to help the National Socialists keep power with ZERO opposition. So yes, tyranny does happen in supposedly civilized countries.

7 Close the gun show loophole.
---explain EXACLY what you mean by the "loophole"? If you buy a gun at a gun show, you are supposed to be subject to the federal IBC. Any dealer that fails to do this will be fined and will be shut down. So describe EXACTLY what this means in the context of what you mean. There is no "gun show loophole" that I am aware of, but explain yourself, please.
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Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:19:51 PM

I seem to recall comfort in that he didn't fly passengers or anymore for that matter.
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