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Author Topic: City Recruits Minority Lifeguards Even if they can't Swim Back to Topics
xrdc

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 12:43:47 PM


Diversity at all costs.

In Phoenix, A New Quest For Diverse Public Pool Lifeguards

"After noticing that most of the lifeguards at the public pools used by Latino and African-American kids were white, the Phoenix aquatics department decided to try to recruit minorities."

"More than 90 percent of the students at Alhambra High are black, Latino or Asian. On a recruiting effort there over the winter, the city's Melissa Boyle tells students she's not looking for strong swimmers. Like many under-resourced schools, Alhambra doesn't have a swim team."

"We will work with you in your swimming abilities," Boyle says.
Boyle's colleague Kelly Martinez takes on the delicate task of explaining the scenario the city is trying to correct."

"The kids in the pool are all either Hispanic or black or whatever, and every lifeguard is white," she says, "and we don't like that. The kids don't relate; there's language issues."

Yeah..."there's language issues"...

A better title of the story would be "Where NOT to swim in Phoenix"

=-=-
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 8:32:42 AM

Maybe the new lifeguards can talk the drowning swimmers out of the pool in Spanish? You know, some thing like "Swim toward the black guy with the whistle."
[Nadar hacia el hombre negro con el silbato.]
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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 7:47:55 AM

RNorm said: "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Hey, you need all the flattery you can get. After throwing down the gauntlet and proving yourself to be guilty of what you accuse others of, that had to have had a severe deflation effect on your ego!

[Edited by: jeskibuff at 4/25/2013 7:48:38 AM EST]
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 7:36:42 AM

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 7:30:18 AM

www.hegotnogame.edu
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 4:16:08 PM

"RN, should we repost that for fly's edification?"


LOL, I'm sure he peeks over the wall between us quite frequently.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 3:06:22 PM

RN, should we repost that for fly's edification?
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no1doc
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 2:41:15 PM

Amen
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 11:24:49 AM

"The lifeguards can't help being white."


Nor should they have to.

They're there to save live; not for the other crap that Martinez and others are trying to hoist upon them.
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no1doc
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 10:53:34 AM

"The kids in the pool are all either Hispanic or black or whatever, and every lifeguard is white," she says, "and we don't like that. The kids don't relate; there's language issues."
***********
That's pure racism. The lifeguards can't help being white.

Martinez turns to a Latina student next to her. "Do you speak Spanish?" she asks. "We need more lifeguards who can speak Spanish."

How about more Americans who can speak English? A lifeguard's swimming and life saving ability is what's important. A drowning kid doesn't care what language his rescuer speaks. Just get me out of the water.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 8:26:47 AM

Recruiting incompetents....nothing new here.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 7:43:23 AM

www.hegotissues.edu
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 7:33:54 AM

RNorm said: "The fact that he keeps droning on and reviving an old issue speaks to all types of dysfunctional behavior"

Not at all.

I'm just holding your feet to the fire about the stupid "solution" you had proposed. We're expected to pretend that you didn't say it, that you really meant something else (which you seem to be totally incapable of verbalizing).

It was YOU who said you were going to "blast" me (or some other ridiculous claim of your "superior" intellect) in another thread. When you thump your chest like that, it's only fair that you take precisely what you say you were going to dish out. So, man up RNorm, and either explain yourself or admit you were wrong. This "hoping it will just go away" tactic of yours isn't quite working, is it?

[Edited by: jeskibuff at 4/22/2013 7:35:27 AM EST]
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 4:29:04 PM

affirmative action in action!
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 12:26:23 PM

The fact that he keeps droning on and reviving an old issue speaks to all types of dysfunctional behavior...but I guess because he's one of those "conservatives who thinks things through" that makes it ok?

Nah, that is just stupid.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 12:20:20 PM

Oh. Well I think a solution of putting in more pools would be ridiculous. I remember you writing something to that effect but I don't remember if you actually felt it was something that should be done or if you were just making a point.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 12:17:44 PM

"Are you saying that you've already addressed this?"


I'm saying what I said at the beginning...I'm not going to waste my time responding to someone who's telling me what I meant based on what he THINKS I meant.

If he doesn't like what I said, fine, but I don't have to explain myself to his or anyone else's satisfaction.

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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 12:13:42 PM

Are you saying that you've already addressed this?

> "Almost 2 weeks later and you're still unable to explain why your "solution" of putting in more pools wasn't totally ridiculous?"?
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 11:58:54 AM

"Actually it looks to me like jeski is frustrated with RNorm's constant side stepping of the question and was just using an example of how the question still stands even though RNorm appears to be using time to make the question go away."


No, he's frustrated because he insists he knows "what I was thinking", even when my point was quite clear and most people (except him), understood and agreed with my point.

So he's going to the mat, time and time again, to insist he knew what I meant (even though I said otherwise) and is going to keep droning on about what he says I meant. So what I'm avoiding is responding to the stupidity of telling me what I mean simply from mindreading...

Not to mention, Obama and all of the other pet peeves he mentioned have NOTHING to do with the pools and racism in Phoenix.

Again, that is just DUMB; but to be expected from the likes of some conservatives in Florida.
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 11:41:33 AM

Upon further examination I understand your point my petrochemical friend.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 10:52:59 AM

Actually it looks to me like jeski is frustrated with RNorm's constant side stepping of the question and was just using an example of how the question still stands even though RNorm appears to be using time to make the question go away.
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 9:25:26 AM

Gotta agree with Norm. This topic is juicy enough without turning it into an Obama I hate you thread.

Has anyone called for the firing of Mz Martinez yet or is her view of not liking too many white people in her neighborhood acceptable to the news culture and neighborhood at large?

No one in her neighborhood asking her to apologize publicly? Anyone have any follow up info on this story? She's clearly advocating for discrimination based on skin color is she not?

To the idea of building more pools... that doesn't seem to be relevant in this story.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 7:50:28 AM

"The passage of time isn't enough to erase the past. Obozo still has a Connecticut SSN that he can't explain. He still can't explain away the bogus birth certificate he posted on the web. There still hasn't been justice meted out to those responsible for such fiascos like Benghazi and Fast & Furious. "



We go from swimming pools in Arizona to Obama and the rest??? LOL, I guess when you have ODS, ANY excuse to let it loose will do...

Get some professional help.
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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2013 7:12:43 AM

RNorm said: "Almost TWO WEEKS later, and you're still going on with this nonsense???"

Almost 2 weeks later and you're still unable to explain why your "solution" of putting in more pools wasn't totally ridiculous?

The passage of time isn't enough to erase the past. Obozo still has a Connecticut SSN that he can't explain. He still can't explain away the bogus birth certificate he posted on the web. There still hasn't been justice meted out to those responsible for such fiascos like Benghazi and Fast & Furious. And you can't possibly weasel out of the words you wrote. Some things just shouldn't be forgotten, especially when those things are uttered by someone who accuses others of not being able to admit being wrong.
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sgm4law
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 11:42:31 AM

<<The worst part of the experience was the male "bidet-bar" we all had to precariously scoot over before entering the pool.>>

TMI. Ugh.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 10:19:48 AM

>"Plastic - ever been to Navy boot camp? If you were you already know - if not join up and get a surprise."

Fly, I guess you missed the post where I talked about teaching swimming at Navy boot camp.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 8:11:12 AM


"You can jump in the deep end of the pool fully clothed or they will help you enter the pool"

My experience was not as forced.

We jumped off the 10' platform into the deep end.

The objective was to tread water for 5 minutes and then swim a lap around the pool.

I lasted less than a minute, was 'extracted', and then found myself learning to float in a kiddie pool with about 10-15 other recruits. I was the only fair-skinned rick of the bunch.

As far as I remember, we all fared well enough to complete boot camp with a 4th class swimmer ranking. In two months time, I acheived 2nd class swimmer status.

The worst part of the experience was the male "bidet-bar" we all had to precariously scoot over before entering the pool.

=-
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 7:52:11 AM

"Translation: "It's really impossible for me to come up with anything I could explain away what I said, so I'll just pretend that you're the dumb one and hope I can get away with it." "


Almost TWO WEEKS later, and you're still going on with this nonsense???

www.obsession.net
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 6:53:40 AM

RNorm said: "And you're STILL going on with this??? LOL, as I've said before, that is just DUMB, but it is what it is."

Translation: "It's really impossible for me to come up with anything I could explain away what I said, so I'll just pretend that you're the dumb one and hope I can get away with it."
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rwsb30
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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 2:52:16 AM

As long as they can swim I dont really care what ethnic group a lifeguard belongs to when I need his/her services....BTW I could swim 15 years before boot camp...Dont you think it is a good idea to know how to swim before you join the Navy?

[Edited by: rwsb30 at 4/18/2013 2:57:03 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 8:01:58 PM

Plastic - ever been to Navy boot camp? If you were you already know - if not join up and get a surprise.

You can jump in the deep end of the pool fully clothed or they will help you enter the pool.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 4:32:48 PM

>"yes the Navy had a interesting way to 'teach' folks to swim"

What way was that?
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 4:30:14 PM

xrdc - yes the Navy had a interesting way to 'teach' folks to swim.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 2:42:27 PM


I remember spending a lot of time at pools growing up.

I did not learn to swim until I joined the Navy, however.

I would bet most people own pools to simply "cool off" rather than to literally swim in.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2013 11:52:56 AM

I went running through my "neighborhood" Tuesday to put some miles in for the folk in Boston. I was very distracted and angry and running harder than I should. My watch beeped and I realized that I needed to think of something else and slow the eff down. I started thinking of the awesome performances by Caballero, Felix and Jeptoo. Then I noticed a swimming pool and it dawned on me that the owner is black. Curious, I noted that there are four swimming pools in my area to my knowledge. Three pools are owned by a black families and the other by a white family.

Just thought that was an interesting tidbit of observational info.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 7:55:07 PM

You don't have to go back and find your old posts - I can do it ---

April 8th - "So, are they saying that the kids in the pool can't communicate with the lifeguards because they aren't the same race or ethnicity? I think a whistle's a pretty simple universal form of communication."

April 8th - (good post here by the way) - "Have lessons in the pools in the neighborhoods where these kids live from when they are little, and they'll be ready to be lifeguards when they are 15-16."

April 12th - where you seem to go off track to me - "Well, yeah, that's the comfort of being in the majority, also known as "white privilege" - you never have to worry about race.

April 14th - "I think part of the diversity issue at pools is that pools tend to be neighborhood based, and our country is still racially and ethnically segregated in urban areas. So many of the pools in poor neighborhoods are attended by poor people who also happen to be racial and ethnic minorities (of course the term "minority" will soon be kind of a misnomer). The people whose children swim at those pools don't tend to have the money and time to expend on a parent-time-intensive and money intensive sport like swimming."

I don't see in any of your posts where you just came out and said that This is racism and is wrong. I do see a lot of beating around the bush and trying to say that anything/everything else is to blame for the prejudiced racist comment this woman made.


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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 5:45:26 PM

"I think part of the diversity issue at pools is that pools tend to be neighborhood based, and our country is still racially and ethnically segregated in urban areas. "


Also very segregated in suburban areas as well. You generally see fewer minorities in suburban areas as compared to the urban areas.
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sgm4law
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 5:39:53 PM

Please don't conveniently ignore all the things I say and focus on one thing that fits what you think I think. It makes a conversation impossible. I won't go back dig up my first reactions to this thread and repost them for you. I just won't.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 4:35:24 PM

"I think part of the diversity issue at pools is that pools tend to be neighborhood based, and our country is still racially and ethnically segregated in urban areas. So many of the pools in poor neighborhoods are attended by poor people who also happen to be racial and ethnic minorities (of course the term "minority" will soon be kind of a misnomer). The people whose children swim at those pools don't tend to have the money and time to expend on a parent-time-intensive and money intensive sport like swimming."

None of which has a single thing to do with the central problem here. This woman's idea to choose who gets the lifeguard job based on race rather than merit.

SGM and others - when will you ever just say that racism for any reason or 'feeling' or whatever is wrong. It doesn't matter who is being discriminated against or why. If any non merit item is used to choose who get a job or promotion or scholarship or anything else it is wrong PERIOD!!!!

You don't make past discrimination better by doing the same thing today in reverse.

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sgm4law
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 2:56:08 PM

<<And the fact that she said this... "The kids in the pool are all either Hispanic or black or whatever, and every lifeguard is white," she says, "and we don't like that." ... seems to indicate Ms Martinez should be the first in line for such a program. If Ms Martinez were Mr Smith in an all white neighborhood with an all white group of kids in the poole with all black or Latino lifeguards and he said this... "The kids in the pool are all white, and every lifeguard is black or Hispanic," he says, "and we don't like that." the reaction would be nuclear. Mr Smith wouldn't get the opportunity for diversity training.>>

So true.

As almost a complete aside, today I was at a swim meet, and because of this topic I was paying attention to the races of the swimmers. There were plenty of African American swimmers, and they were often seeded in the final (i.e. fastest) heat.

I think part of the diversity issue at pools is that pools tend to be neighborhood based, and our country is still racially and ethnically segregated in urban areas. So many of the pools in poor neighborhoods are attended by poor people who also happen to be racial and ethnic minorities (of course the term "minority" will soon be kind of a misnomer). The people whose children swim at those pools don't tend to have the money and time to expend on a parent-time-intensive and money intensive sport like swimming.
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WES03
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Message Posted: Apr 14, 2013 8:59:49 AM

Shocking.
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 11:45:32 PM

AFSNCO brought up a question of equal access to resources. I totally agree. Every school ought to have a pool, or none of them. But also remember that building the pool isn't all of the expense. They would have to MAINTAIN the pool and if offering swimming, they'd need trained instructors. And as a team sport, they'd need coaches for both male and female teams. In addition, they need gear and transportation to get to meets. The expenses are not trivial. If a school is built and if it is decided by the folks in that school's area that the money is better spent on academics, then so be it. But they'll still have to move interested students to the nearest school pool to compete. That's only fair. It is also a good idea to teach everyone to swim. If nothing else, it's a safety issue. Learn to swim - save a life (perhaps your own).
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 9:38:02 AM

"It's not necessary to read your mind when your post plainly says what you're thinking."


And you're STILL going on with this???

LOL, as I've said before, that is just DUMB, but it is what it is.
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BlackGumTree
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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 8:35:46 AM

If the pool is filled with Black kids and Hispanic it would seem appropriate for the lifeguards to be Black and/or Hispanic.

But a lifeguard needs to be capable and competent to do the job. Lifeguards should be selected from those who have been swimming for years, are strong swimmers, are watchful and alert, and are then trained in the work of guarding the lives of people around and in a body of water regardless of whether it is a pool, a lake, a river, a beach, anywhere where people gather to swim.

The city needs to recruit the best competent Lifeguards based on ability to do the job and ignoring other factors. If it wants more minorities doing the job, then they need to start training minorities how to swim and allow for the years needed for some to develop the skills and strength needed before lifeguard training begins.

I don't know about today, but years ago Washington, DC had a program to teach people, especially kids, how to swim at their swim. And that is the first step in safeguarding the lives of people in the water - teaching them how to swim.

Also administrators of swimming facilities need to be competent. It appears that Phoenix needs to replace theirs to ensure that people will be safe in their pools.

[Edited by: BlackGumTree at 4/13/2013 8:37:37 AM EST]
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 8:05:27 AM

<<<I don't think that the kids at the pools are the ones with the racial issues. It seems to me that Boyle and Martinez may be using the kids at the pools and the prominence of their office to further their personal agendas. >>>

That very well could be true. I've seen kids used as pawns all the time. It's just not clear from the article. Just simply going by what she said "The kids don't relate" then it seems to me to be more of a failure of her or the school system or the aquatics dept to promote tolerance of others who are not like them. Methinks a diversity training program may be in order there.

And the fact that she said this... "The kids in the pool are all either Hispanic or black or whatever, and every lifeguard is white," she says, "and we don't like that." ... seems to indicate Ms Martinez should be the first in line for such a program. If Ms Martinez were Mr Smith in an all white neighborhood with an all white group of kids in the poole with all black or Latino lifeguards and he said this... "The kids in the pool are all white, and every lifeguard is black or Hispanic," he says, "and we don't like that." the reaction would be nuclear. Mr Smith wouldn't get the opportunity for diversity training.

The problem here doesn't seem to be white lifeguards but racial bigotry in the administration of this pool. And possibly kids being taught to distrust people of no color. At least from what I've read so far.

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jeskibuff
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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 7:36:57 AM

RNorm said: " they need to be answered by the people at the Pools in Phoenix, not by pontificators at gasbuddies who are able to read other people's minds and tell them what they think and are saying..."

It's not necessary to read your mind when your post plainly says what you're thinking.

You've offered no alternative explanation other than "that's not what I'm saying".

But it IS what you said, isn't it?

From someone who just loves to accuse other people of not admitting when they're wrong, you sure know how to hoist yourself upon your own petard, don't you?

It's a prime example of the old "speck in their eye/log in your own eye" parable, isn't it?
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 4:47:50 PM

I was not questioning or debating sociologists. I was responding to sgm's use of "white privilege" and your backing of her use. In that instance, I think I was pretty spot on about the useage here in this topic. Unless of course you all explain what you meant by it and prove me wrong.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 4:43:26 PM

>"I don't think that the kids at the pools are the ones with the racial issues. It seems to me that Boyle and Martinez may be using the kids at the pools and the prominence of their office to further their personal agendas."

As a fine gentleman often says, "Bingo and Boom!"
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 4:18:08 PM

"Wonder why no one is holding their feet to the fire? It troubles me they think it's OK for their kids not to relate to people who are of different skin colors and cultures...and those people should be replaced by people who look and talk more like them. I spent a lot of time trying to do the opposite with my daughter."


I don't think that the kids at the pools are the ones with the racial issues. It seems to me that Boyle and Martinez may be using the kids at the pools and the prominence of their office to further their personal agendas.
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 4:09:00 PM

<<<Yeah, but they need to be answered by the people at the Pools in Phoenix, not by pontificators at gasbuddies.....>>>

I agree. THEY should be the ones answering those questions. But too bad they're not here to answer to us pontificators? LOL

Wonder why no one is holding their feet to the fire? It troubles me they think it's OK for their kids not to relate to people who are of different skin colors and cultures...and those people should be replaced by people who look and talk more like them. I spent a lot of time trying to do the opposite with my daughter.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 3:48:31 PM

"Just some honest question I think should be answered."


Yeah, but they need to be answered by the people at the Pools in Phoenix, not by pontificators at gasbuddies who are able to read other people's minds and tell them what they think and are saying...
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 3:24:09 PM

<<<But sadly, there are some, even on here, who insist that they know what's best for everyone;>>>

Seems Ms Martinez falls into this category. Are white life guards not capable of protecting black or Latino kids from drowning? Or is it the people that are being protected from drowning by white life guards that don't think white people are capable of protecting them? Or do they just not like white people being life guards in their neighborhoods? Or maybe they just don't like white people? I'm still not sure it isn't just racial bigotry. Or is that only a one way street?

""The kids in the pool are all either Hispanic or black or whatever, and every lifeguard is white," she says, "and we don't like that. The kids don't relate; there's language issues.""

Why don't they like that?

If the kids don't relate to whites why is that? Should they be being taught tolerance for people who are different? And if not why not?

If the kids don't relate to people who are different then them and they don't like them around how does that differ from whites who don't relate to or like blacks around?

Just some honest question I think should be answered.
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