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Author Topic: Congress to force Postal Service to keep Saturday delivery Back to Topics
MiddletownMarty

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Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 21, 2013 8:08:08 PM

[L=http://news.yahoo.com/text deleted to force Postal Service to keep Saturday delivery[/L]


Congress foiled the financially beleaguered U.S. Postal Service's plan to end Saturday delivery of first-class mail when it passed legislation on Thursday requiring six-day delivery.

The Postal Service, which lost $16 billion last year, said last month it wanted to switch to five-day mail service to save $2 billion annually.
Congress traditionally has included a provision in legislation to fund the federal government each year that has prevented the Postal Service from reducing delivery service. The Postal Service had asked Congress not to include the provision this time around.

Despite the request, the House of Representatives on Thursday gave final approval to legislation that maintains the provision, sending it to President Barack Obama to sign into law. The Senate approved the measure on Wednesday.


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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 1:00:25 PM

Heck, I'd REALLY like to have my own carrier again.

The mailman who had been on our route for 25 years retired 5 years ago. We all knew him by name, and you could set your clock by his schedule.

He was never replaced. After his retirement, his route was dissolved. Today, we're on an overflow route for carriers who want overtime. It's a different carrier every day; the mail comes at different times of the day, and the worst thing is neighbors are continually having to trade mail with each other.

Like Billy Crystal doing his Sammy Davis Jr. bit on Saturday Night Live said, "Don't get me started."
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 12:35:57 PM

Even USPS workers will tell you that they are overpaid, their benefits are too costly and the rules are pretty idiotic. I work with post offices all over Georgia. I know many Bulk Mail Specialists and Postmasters. Don't get me wrong, none of them want to take a pay or benefit cut but they are quick to admit it is a pretty nice gig. They often joke about how many postal workers it takes to do a certain task.
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 27, 2013 2:45:29 AM

"Congress can fix their problem if they were to just say - Post Office your on your own - make your own decisions."

True -- but fat chance of that happening. Some in Congress ardently advocate "smaller government" -- but how often do we see Congress reduce its own role in government?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 4:58:50 PM

Congress can fix their problem if they were to just say - Post Office your on your own - make your own decisions.
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 4:39:46 PM

The Congress is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they force the post office to stay open, keeping them from laying off workers, they are jerks. If they allow the post office to close on Saturday, laying off workers, they are jerks.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 5:24:51 PM

"On both sides of the isle."

What island is that?
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 4:49:30 PM

Yeah but what about all those poor shut-ins who receive no mail except junk mail. Where's your compassion?
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 4:39:16 PM

There is only one reason for Saturday mail delivery.

The mass mailers of junk mail have insisted on it.

Mass mailers = money.

Money talks in Congress.

On both sides of the isle.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 4:30:27 PM

"For those people that think UPS can handle the mail"

UPS isn't the only player.




"My guess a Letter sent thru UPS would run $2.00"

Cheaper than driving a letter from North NJ to North Texas yourself.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 11:40:16 AM

I do not believe losing Saturday mail delivery and pick up is very important. I do believe that saving money is very important. It all comes down to a matter of priorities.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 9:17:57 AM

For those people that think UPS can handle the mail

UPS Next day air envelope North NJ to North Texas $42.09
USPS Next day air envelope North NJ to North Texas $34.85

UPS 2 day air envelope North NJ to North Texas $27.48
USPS 2 day air envelope North NJ to North Texas $6.45

UPS 1 oz 1st class letter North NJ to North Texas N/A
USPS 1 oz 1st class letter North NJ to North Texas $.46

The amount of people that UPS would have to hire just to handle postal type mail would rival the amount of people currently working for USPS. They would be in a Structured Union & the pay would be drastically less then seniority pay at USPS. There would be No way you would ever pay $.46 for a letter ever again...

My guess a Letter sent thru UPS would run $2.00
Reason to switch to Online banking, Downloading periodicals, e-mail.
SAD

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 4:52:20 PM

It allows - empowers - Congress to establish Post Offices. This doesnt mandate it nor does it say they "must" retain every single post office building and or facility ever made.
.
Nothing I have found says the Government is required to provide 6 day service, a Post Office building in every population concentration or to even operate at all.

Everything I have found says it is optional and at the discretion of Congress
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 4:30:52 PM

The Constitution and the Post Office
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 4:25:59 PM

flyboy: "Where does it say the Post Office is required to provide service 6 days a week?"

Nowhere.
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 4:25:19 PM

AC-302: "As to closing post offices, well, that's against the law."

jayrad1957: "True. A little thing called the Constitution prevents that."

No, the Constitution gives Congress the power to giveth, and to taketh away.

AC-302: "You want to close the rural post offices? Change the law."

True. A little thing called the Constitution provides for that.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 4:21:24 PM

Where in the Constitution does it say we cant close a Post Office? Where does it mandate that every hamlet and gas stop has its own post office? Where does it say the Post Office is required to provide service 6 days a week?
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 3:54:10 PM

"As to closing post offices, well, that's against the law."

True. A little thing called the Constitution prevents that.
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 3:40:51 PM

"And for a 1st class letter or postcard, no matter where you live, there is supposed to be postal service - mail delivered to your door or post box."

Where's that "the Free Market knows best" dogma now? Want to live out in the country? Then pay the full freight for providing mail service to you. Don't continue to be a leech on society like you have been doing for decades. "Smaller government" means you get to provide for yourself -- just like you apparently believe your great-grandparents did. So, have at it.

We're "supposed to" be free to marry the person we love also. Yet some apparently have no reservation about restricting that right if they feel it might make things awkward for some churches. So, that "supposed to" argument seems to be embraced very selectively by some folks.


GasFoot
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 2:09:55 PM

As to closing post offices, well, that's against the law. We have to serve folks everywhere, every day. And for a 1st class letter or postcard, no matter where you live, there is supposed to be postal service - mail delivered to your door or post box.

You want to close the rural post offices? Change the law.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 2:34:25 AM

"Otherwise, the rest of us have to continue to subsidize those who choose the rural lifestyle."

Yeah, like the darn farmers who put meat and potatoes on your plate! Why can't they choose to keep their cattle and pigs and chickens, and plant their crops in the yard next to your house so your mailman can deliver their mail too! Right?
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 2:08:19 AM

"Congress to force Postal Service to keep Saturday delivery"

Yet one more example of our dysfunctional Congress at work. The USPS should close a ton of offices in parts of the USA where only a few live. Otherwise, the rest of us have to continue to subsidize those who choose the rural lifestyle.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 8:12:47 PM

"Are our congress critters getting a pay back for keeping Sat. mail going?"


You might be on to something there partner...
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 8:01:32 PM

If the mail delivery is eliminated on Saturday who gets hurt?

Postal Unions
Employees of the USPS
Newspapers that mail their products
States paying unemployment

Oh, yes and Congressmen/Congresswomen running for re-election
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 7:32:56 PM

AC: "What's going to happen when the pension system collapses, and it will collapse."


This same thing awaits all levels of government from local to federal. Between wealth transfer payments and pension and health care benefits, government in total has promised more than the economy is capable of generating.

I suspect that eventually there will be rioting in the streets when those in charge of government are physically unable to kick the can down the road any longer. The only question is who will be doing the rioting, the government employees who are finally being told that what they were promised won't be there for them, or the people like 401K holders who are being told that their assets are being confiscated so that the retired government employees can continue to receive their benefits.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 3/23/2013 7:34:37 PM EST]
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 7:25:51 PM

I consider FedEx and UPS to be courier companies. Sure, they have a lot of commercial big business, like warehousing, etc, but the average person uses only the courier and package delivery services.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 7:13:31 PM

I can't envision courier companies taking over the vast mail delivery system that is the USPS. I think it has to be something bigger... like FedEx or UPS, or maybe both.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 7:01:59 PM

"There must be something to be made by the USPS going bankrupt, otherwise Congress wouldn't insist on its happening."

Indeed. Courier companies would make hundreds of millions in extra revenue. As a matter of fact, UPS tried to sue Canada Post out of business because Canada Post bought Purolator in Canada. Thankfully they had no success in that one, and now they need Purolator as a business partner! LOL!!
No, the courier companies would make out like bandits, but the people in smaller communities would ultimately pay the price.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 6:44:02 PM

"Not a single commercial courier company has the infrastructure to handle the territorial mandate the post office handles."

There must be something to be made by the USPS going bankrupt, otherwise Congress wouldn't insist on its happening.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 5:39:48 PM

"That's what contracts are for. The services to be provided and the price to be paid for those services are spelled out in detail ahead of time."

UPS et al are in the business to make money. There isn't a delivery company among them that would sign a contract mandating keeping delivery to rural addresses at current or similar postal rates, such a contract would be laughed out of the boardroom.
Not a single commercial courier company has the infrastructure to handle the territorial mandate the post office handles.
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 4:07:44 PM

The only thing, I get on Sat. is junk mail, and everyone I talk to says the same thing. It doesn't seem that Sat. mail would be missed all that much. Are our congress critters getting a pay back for keeping Sat. mail going?
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Jdanek630
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 2:47:17 PM

Prolonging the inevitable....
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 1:03:30 PM

mudtoe said: "I now vote no on absolutely everything that involves giving more money to a local government or school district, even if they say it's for fire and police (I used to occasionally vote for a levy for fire or police), because I now understand that the money isn't going to improve services, but will simply go to paying people who aren't working anymore. Time to let these local governments and school districts go bankrupt so that a bankruptcy judge can pare back these lavish retirement benefits. If you vote yes you just keep the payments going a little longer, but in the end your money doesn't fix anything."

-- I, too, vote "NO" on every tax increase proposed. Here in LaLa land, the County of LaLa and the Land of Fruits and Nuts, the legislators seem to think everyone is a Hollywood movie star with oodles of loot in their pockets ready to be raided. What Governor Moonbeam and others have failed to recognize is that the well of infinite money has run dry. We need to start cutting services. In addition, we also have pension obligations in the city, county and state, that we have no hope of ever meeting. What's going to happen when the pension system collapses, and it will collapse. Then what? I take it the unions are going to demand to be paid, probably at the expense of other unions that aren't as strong, politically. Out here, the Prison Guards' Union and the Teachers' Union hold sway. Eventually we need to move everyone to 401K, 403B or whatever. The pension scheme here is unsustainable.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 12:43:55 AM

"I'm left here starting to wonder if congress is indeed simply sabotaging the country. Either that or they're just plain stupid."


Wow, this is another one of those times in which we agree..

It looks as if the PO has tried several times to streamline and become more efficient, only to be thwarted by the language of the funding bills that keep inefficiency in place.

SMH
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 10:19:14 PM

AC: "They also need to move to 401K, rather than pension. "


That's the single biggest reason local governments and school districts are constantly trying to pass levies for higher taxes. All the extra money is going to people who aren't working anymore, and the problem is doing nothing but getting worse. If you look at the books of any of these entities, from local governments, to school districts, to the Post Office, the fastest growing expense for all of them is paying retirees pensions and health care benefits. If you approve a levy you don't get more or better service, you just keep the payments to the retirees going a little longer.

I now vote no on absolutely everything that involves giving more money to a local government or school district, even if they say it's for fire and police (I used to occasionally vote for a levy for fire or police), because I now understand that the money isn't going to improve services, but will simply go to paying people who aren't working anymore. Time to let these local governments and school districts go bankrupt so that a bankruptcy judge can pare back these lavish retirement benefits. If you vote yes you just keep the payments going a little longer, but in the end your money doesn't fix anything.


mudtoe
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 9:37:46 PM

I am starting to think Saturday delivery is unwarranted. However, I am also thinking the Post Office needs to work on efficiency. I have a "letter carrier" here in my neighborhood. He has worked at the USPS for like 35 years. He tells me sometimes how badly run the place is. He was a supervisor for awhile, but ended up getting criticized for trying to make improvements. There's all kinds of jokes about the PO, as well - some of them warranted. How often do you get in line at the post office, only to find of X number of windows available, only like 1 or 2 are open? They really need to automate and modernize even more. They also need to move to 401K, rather than pension.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 8:22:29 PM

I'm left here starting to wonder if congress is indeed simply sabotaging the country. Either that or they're just plain stupid.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 5:43:15 PM

And if its not economical to provide all the services demanded in the contract offering then the price will reflect it. But IMHO private industry can probably do the job for less - if allowed. The present Post Office organization could do it for less if allowed - by both Congress and the silly unions.

Heck let them go bankrupt and then they can start over after Congress 'gets it' and the union contracts are rescinded.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 3:32:47 PM

rs: "Are you serious? Give 6 months, and nobody outside larger towns would have any service. Give another 6 months, and nobody outside large cities would have any service."


That's what contracts are for. The services to be provided and the price to be paid for those services are spelled out in detail ahead of time. If delivery to every address currently served by the postal service is required, then it's stated in the contract and not left up to the discretion of the bidders.


mudtoe
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 3:22:37 PM

... and? Who would pick up mail delivery if the USPS went out of business?

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 3/22/2013 3:23:42 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 3:10:58 PM

Ummmmmm........bankruptcy lawyers.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 3:06:35 PM

Who stands to gain if the USPS goes bankrupt?
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 2:30:28 PM

"Any congress members that voted to override the postal service plan to eliminate Saturday delivery of mail is oblivious to our spending & budget problems."


They're not oblivious...they just want to use it to blame the other guy.
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Happyherman
Champion Author Calgary

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 2:19:11 PM

Never say never. Postal service in much of Europe is done more effectively and cheaper by DHL so there is a great chance that they or UPS or FedEx would be quite happy to provide a proposal. Someone should write up a Request for Proposal and see what might happen. Looking is still free.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 2:11:16 PM

..." lost $16 billion last year, said last month it wanted to switch to five-day mail service to save $2 billion annually."

Let's do a little math. Cut out one day of delivery, save $2 Billion.
Hey, if they cut out all six days of delivery, 6 x $2 Billion = $12 Billion could be saved!
We can all just go in and pick up our mail on....on....on whatever day the post office is actually open.

In all seriousness, I have proposed going to a 4-delivery a week schedule.
Cut out Saturday delivery immediately.
Then, every route would get delivered on four of the five week days. Every route should get delivered on both Monday and Friday, and every route would not get delivered on a mid-week day. On weeks with a Monday holiday, all routes would be delivered on Tuesday. Priority and Express services could still be maintained.

The Post Office is in the same situation as many other industries.
It's workforce is aging. Many carriers are expected to retire in the next several years. Cutting back on delivery days could help a labor crunch and avoid filling the gaps with expensive overtime. Or by hiring part time flex carriers.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 3/22/2013 2:12:36 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 1:22:17 PM

Any congress members that voted to override the postal service plan to eliminate Saturday delivery of mail is oblivious to our spending & budget problems.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 10:09:28 AM

Just dumb...that is all.
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 9:39:52 AM

"Why does USPS have to fund retirement for 75 years?"

Congress says so.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 9:07:54 AM

????
Why does USPS have to fund retirement for 75 years?
You all know what this means. USPS will have to close allot of rural post offices. Lay off allot of people. Longer wait for your mail.

DUMB
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 8:16:37 AM

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our Government.

USPS said congress created this problem and they seem to be proven right.

USPS wants to cut Saturday service to save money; Congress says no...but yet congress says we have a spending problem???

Then stop spending! Eliminate Saturday service and save money...how hard can that be???
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2013 7:56:34 AM

As stated below, our congress forced the USPS to fund retirements for future employees that have yet to be born.

It is just another source of cash to operate the government instead of raising the money through taxes.

There is NO way FedEx or UPS will deliver mail
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