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sissurf

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Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 1:50:57 AM



Itchy Cop

I'm sorry I don't understand. Can someone please tell me what was the main reason for pulling over the van in the first place?

Also listen closely at the end of the tape. The police officer once more asked for the man's license. The police officer goes, what did you do with your license? The man's reply was, I don't know, you had it.

Now why didn't this cop call it in, in the fist place, before he approached the van, so that he could have ran the guy's license plate and see if the guy had a conceal weapon permit or not?

How do you feel about this situation?

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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 8, 2013 5:52:50 PM

MiddletownMarty says: "Easier to get to his gun standing as opposed to sitting, too."

BINGO!
That is exactly what any police officer, edgy or not, who spots a gun, HAS to presume if he wants to retire in a rocking chair instead of a pine box.


[Edited by: rumbleseat at 3/8/2013 5:54:07 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 6:17:59 PM

Rumble no matter how many times you say it there are some that just wont admit that the guy was dumb as a rusty stel Tpost by how he got out of the vehicle.

Yep the cop may have overreacted - but he is still alive.

Until you make a few 'stops' in the middle of the night where you cant see too well and you have no backup and you have a report of folks being drunk and shots fired you dont really know what that cop is going through.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 6:16:41 PM

"I presume he thought it would be easier to get to his wallet standing as opposed to sitting."

Easier to get to his gun standing as opposed to sitting, too.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 6:09:09 PM

Yep, I watched the same video.
The one that showed the guy get out of the van.
The guy that got out of the van despite the fact everybody and his dog has been educated to stay in the vehicle unless asked to get out.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 9:18:21 AM

Several mistakes were made from both the cop & the guy.
The guy should not have gotten out of the vehicle....BUT, he was overweight a little & I presume he thought it would be easier to get to his wallet standing as opposed to sitting.
The cop panicked...Yes they do some times. He is also human. Once he determined that the person had a CCP. That should have diffused the situation...it did not.
The cop blew his cool. Just because someone else in his presents has the right to carry a gun he lost it.

There was no threat other than the gun being visible when the guys shirt rode up.

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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 9:38:25 PM

Rumble, have you watched the same video everyone else has watched though? The cop did not come up to the guy with his gun drawn and they were having a pretty friendly conversation and it was going fine until the cop saw the gun. Even when he first saw the gun he asked if it was a gun and all seemed ok but then the cop lost his mind. The guy that was pulled over was not aggressive in any sense and has already been pointed out he could have just secured the guy against the vehicle, secured the gun, and then verified his carry status.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 9:36:12 PM

True eldiablo. You can never be too careful on either side right now. Here in the area I live in we have had a fake cop pulling people over with lights in his grill. He tried to abduct one girl along the interstate but she fought back and pulled away after he climbed into her car.

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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 9:28:50 PM

AFSNCO, of course I think that the cop overreacted, but in this day and age with people that we should be able to trust with guns going on rampages (i.e. Christopher Doner) and criminals with guns (i.e.), the only way you stay alive in this world is to be on edge!

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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 9:03:02 PM

90% of the time cops over react, the good ones know how to rein it back in.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 5:37:37 PM

"If you get out of the car against the officer's orders, don't be surprised to see a gun pointing at you. Cops are trained to expect the worst. When you get out of your car, they may assume you're about to pull a weapon or attempt to flee."
Source - NOLO Law for all

"You should always stay in the car. "I didn't want anyone out of the car, ever," says Police Officer Tom emphatically. "If they get out of the car, I'm thinking they have something to be afraid of, like they're wanted, or intoxicated, and in either case, that's a safety issue for the officer," warns the police officer.
"I don't care if you're the baddest officer there is, there's always someone out there who's badder than you, and if we can keep them inside the car, that's the best way to keep from being injured. If they're inside the car, they can't fight you and maybe grapple for your gun and shoot you."
Source - CNN, and a former Virginia State Trooper.

"Do not exit the vehicle unless requested to do so. This is almost always perceived as a threat and it is safer for you inside the car than outside, near traffic."
Source - wikiHow

I repeat, ANY exit of the vehicle at a traffic stop, when not requested to do do, can be viewed as "threatening". I knew that when I was a teenager, and common sense on that has not changed. I have never exited a vehicle during a traffic stop, and never will unless asked to.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 3/2/2013 5:39:06 PM EST]
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 9:38:44 AM

Even though they tell you not to get out of the vehicle when a cop pulls you over this guy did not get out in a threatening manner. If you actually listen they were having a friendly conversation about him being pulled over the cop was polite and so was the guy being pulled over. That was not even part of the equation of this cop's overreaction.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2013 8:49:14 PM

Again, I don't know how many times this has to be said, the driver was an idiot for getting out of the van in the first place!!!
Had he been a normal, rational being, and obeyed advice we have all been given regarding traffic stops, none of this would have happened.
He got out of the van, and he was carrying a gun, BOTH SEEN AS MAJOR POTENTIAL THREATS BY ANY POLICE OFFICER, he is too stupid for words.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2013 8:28:54 PM

wow, some video.

In my opinion, a lot of things bad took place.. I agree with jdhelm's 1st post... guy should not have gotten out of the van.

The officer should not be in a situation where he is in that position again. Hopefully he will be given some other employment opportunties.

Is that common language by the police force? In my opinion the officer, was trying to escalate this from watching the video. I am sure he was scared , but just more justification for him not to be put in that situation again..

Fortunately the officer did tone it down when he spoke to the woman passenger in the van.

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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2013 7:00:11 PM

Rumble...he doesn't have to take his word for it but to threaten to shoot the guy in the back? As has been stated in this thread already have the guy put his hands on the vehicle, disarm the man, and then verify his CCP.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2013 6:28:22 PM

I don't know about you, but if I am an officer, I am not taking anybody's word that they have a permit. That could be fatal.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2013 9:26:46 AM

Face it... The cop panicked when he seen the gun still on the guys hip.
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 4:53:08 PM



johnnyg1200 you are funny!
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 4:51:51 PM



Extremely well said, AFSNCO!

I've noticed the same thing. Even the woman mentioned that the guy had a concealed weapon permit. The police office just didn't care. Don't forget according to the police office, the man "JUMP" out of the van. I feel to save face when he eventually called it in. The police office had to put a greater spin on the situation, making the guy look like a shmuck.

To think someone bending over, back to the officer, reaching for his registration, and oops the part of the gun is shown, makes you a criminal, is beyond belief. You get arrested for banishing a fire arm?! Say what?!

As soon as the police officer saw it, he asked the guy if he han a gun, and the guy replies, yes, I have a concealed weapon permit.

So what's the problem?!

The police officer should have looked it up and that should have been the end of it, but no that's not what happen.

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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 11:16:00 PM

FYI, he tells him a second time he has a permit while he has his hands on the van. This was just a nervous cop...and probably should not be on the streets. This is a cop RNorm should worry about because he seems like the kind that would shoot first and ask questions later.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 11:14:04 PM

eldiablo, you don't think the cop overreacted just a bit when he saw the weapon? The guy pulled out his wallet and handed it to the cop and turned around to get his registration and insurance. He never reached for his gun at any time. The cop asked him why he was carrying a gun and the guy mumbles something that sounds like he says he has a permit and the cop loses his mind. He said "I will shot you in the f...ing back." First off if the guy isn't facing the cop he is not a threat at that point and to shoot anyone in the back will get you sent to prison and throws out any self-defense argument that cop could have used.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 9:17:33 PM


In the Zimmerman case the autopsy has shown that Zimmerman attacked Martin and viciously used his face to burse and bloody the knuckles of Martin. In the trial the prosecution will show that Zimmerman only shot the poor innocent kid after he couldn’t use the back of his own head to break a chunk of concrete loose to use as a weapon, all because Martin looked like the son Obama might have had.

As long as the silliness is coming out I thought I would add to it.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 8:19:47 PM

Its a felony assault charge because even though the officer didn't ask (at least it is not in the video) the officer was not aware that the guy had a weapon. When the officer saw the weapon in this case, it is not concealed anymore. The guy should have disclosed to the officer that he has a conceal weapons permit because he was armed (not saying that he should have stated he was armed) so the officer is aware that the guy could be potentially armed and evaluate the situation differently (I know it sounds like self incrimination). The guy violated this part of the statue Florida's Concealed Weapons law: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Whether or not it goes to trial would be prosecutor discretion. There are some other heated moments in the video which could possibly be ignored due to a "heat of the moment claim" by the cop such as when the guy was laying on the ground he states that he has a permit.

My prediction would be at minimum review of fit for licensing and fine.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 6:32:22 PM

In the Martin case he only felt threatened or was he attacked? Hmm...
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 1:30:13 PM

"The cop was not threatened other than someone in his presence also had rights to carry a gun."

But did he -feel- threatened? That was the standard in the Travon Martin shooting, so why shouldn't it be the standard now?



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 2/26/2013 1:33:00 PM EST]
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 11:38:40 AM

I see the usual suspects are here making dumb statements again...
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 11:30:30 AM

"I don't care if you have a permit or not."

This cop needs to write an apology and be sent to the penalty box for 10 days.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 10:18:15 AM

Proper procedure should have been...
When the guy turned around & the gun was shown.
Cop should have had him hands up against the van. Retrieve the pistol. Then cuff him. Then have the woman exit the vehicle & come around to the same side. Possibly cuff her. Call for back up & in the license & determine the CCP .

It would have been defused in less then 5 min. The cop got pissy. The man is older & slightly overweight. He should not have gotten out of the van in the 1st place...but he was non-threatening at any point during the stop.

Marty. Please keep your comments to a logical point. The cop was not threatened other than someone in his presence also had rights to carry a gun.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 11:30:43 PM

well - - - the officer for sure knows how to use the f-bomb
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 10:02:29 PM

Did anyone else at first glance read the title as "Itchy CUP" ?
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 9:16:30 PM



"but how many officers in the US have been shot in traffic stops over the years?"

How true, but then too officers aren't taught to approach a vehicle dead on like he did either! The officer would have been in direct fire, if this person was a criminal.

Besides the many faults in this video, the one that I would like to point out is the stupidity of the officer, after tying the man's hands behind his back. The officer never retrieved the gun from the guy, not even before leaving the guy to himself, while the officer got the lady on the other side of the van. All that time the guy is tied up and left alone to himself while the police officer is getting the lady, the guy still had his gun in his holster. The officer never took it away! Now maybe the gun was retrieved at 2:20 of this video tape, but who knows for sure. Because of the officer telling the lady to move to the other side, one can not see as to what is going on any more between the guy and the police officer. In any case, that gun should have been removed right away, right after he tied the guy up.

I think the Internal Affairs needs to look at this one for many reasons.

This officer is way to jumpy for one reason or another. Maybe he is a rookie or something happened in the pass. In either case he needs an evaluation. The other big thing, the officer sure stretches his story a bit. Thank God for the video, or this guy would be in a lot of trouble for a conceal weapon permit, that should have shown up on the police officer's computer before the police officer even approached the van.

[Edited by: sissurf at 2/25/2013 9:22:15 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 6:18:19 PM

That guy in the van was dumb as a steel 'T' post.

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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 6:06:10 PM

A - the guy got out of the van
B - he was WEARING his gun
C - he didn't tell the officer he was armed

ALL red flags.
Over-reacted? Maybe it appears that way, but how many officers in the US have been shot in traffic stops over the years?
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 1:41:08 PM

"Cop over reacted. Yes he was alone. All he had to do was keep the guy against the van. Call it in to determine the CCP status. All would have been defused in under 1 minuet. The man or woman never acted in any threatening manor."

Maybe the cop should have shot the guy with the gun under the authority of Florida's Stand Your Ground law. Ask questions and call in later. All that's necessary is for one to "feel" threatened, right?

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 2/25/2013 1:41:49 PM EST]
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 10:17:46 AM

""Florida gun laws are screwy, and the guy in the van is something of a dim bulb. It's a wonder the cop wasn't shot under the Stand Your Ground law. ""

????
When did the guy touch the gun??? Was it not still in the holster?
He pulled his wallet that has a chain attached to it.
When he turned around & leaned into the van is when his shirt rode up & exposed the gun....still in the holster.

Cop over reacted. Yes he was alone. All he had to do was keep the guy against the van. Call it in to determine the CCP status. All would have been defused in under 1 minuet. The man or woman never acted in any threatening manor.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 11:05:43 AM

Florida gun laws are screwy, and the guy in the van is something of a dim bulb. It's a wonder the cop wasn't shot under the Stand Your Ground law.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 9:22:39 AM

well, I agree with rumble - #1 rule: always stay inside your vehicle, #2: always keep your hands on the steering wheel at 11 and 1 o'clock position, #3 always be polite, #4 always comply with officer's requests and inform him - ie: i'm going to get my registration from the glove box, etc.

reason why officer pulled the van over was for expired license plate sticker - most states have color coded stickers with the month and year on them.

as to why he didn't call in the plate first, he might have, but, not so sure if those kinds of radio calls will show if the occupant may or may not have a ccw, I don't believe they do here in Iowa.

There is some problem with the officer remembering when he saw the gun, as to the flipping out his wallet for his license, etc.
Regardless, he uses the F word quite a bit, but then - in the heat of the moment, I guess all kinds of words are used.

I was happy to see that the female remained calm, and for the most part, she remained silent - had she been more vocal, the "alone" officer may have been more agressive and tasered her or shot either, difficult to tell as each situation has it's own circumstances for action.

wow, quite a video.

anyhow, the guy should have remained in his van and complied with the officers directives. - imo
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 4:57:42 AM

The guy got out of the van. That is ALWAYS a red flag.
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