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Author Topic: Can Gun Companies refuse sales to state Governments with strict gun laws? Back to Topics
jdhelm

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:33:43 PM

Six gun companies have announced plans to stop selling any of their products to any government agency in states that severely limit the rights of private gun ownership.

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Gun Companies Come Together: We Wouldn’t Sell To State Governments Who Think They Are “More Equal” Than Their Citizens

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Six gun companies have announced plans to stop selling any of their products to any government agency in states that severely limit the rights of private gun ownership.

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Can Gun Companies Refuse Sales to State Governments with Strict Gun Laws?

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LaRue Tactical, Olympic Arms, Extreme Firepower Inc, LLC, Templar Custom, York Arms, and Cheaper than Dirt have announced plans to stop selling any of their products to any government agency in states that severely limit the rights of private gun ownership.

Disappointed with New York State lawmakers and other jurisdictions around the country who have passed strict gun control legislation, the companies—composed of firearm manufacturers, gunsmiths, and sporting goods retailers—have announced these policies in the past week.

Their various statements emphasize that such laws create a class of government employees with rights and and a class of citizens without rights. Thus, they refuse to aid the enforcement of such inequality.

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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 9:13:29 AM

I hear the list of companies is growing... Good Job.
I also heard a Cal gun dealer refused to sell to a police officer when he said Police & military should be the only ones allowed to possess guns.
Thru him out of his store......NICE

I have NEVER met a cop that did not have a BIG CHIP on his shoulder & think he could do no wrong.

Sorry. Cops are Humans too.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 2:43:52 PM

Tim, I don't know what is going on with Mr Razor. Apparently he likes my old topics and I sent him a note of thanks too. Police make criminal checks in minutes when they stop people for tickets. If a background check can keep a gun out of the hands of a criminal, I say do it. I say that knowing my background check took weeks. I already owned 2 weapons I bought from friends ala the loophole.
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 12:31:18 PM

AC-302, yes. Ronnie did create a new round with better ballistics so his rifles could be bought in California. And it does comply with the law. But the spirit of the rifle is somewhat diminished. The reason Ronnie wanted to rifle for the .50 cal BMG round was because the ammo was available as government surplus and therefore was once "inexpensive" - (not now though). But more importantly, a Barrett .50 cal BMG rifle had never been used in a crime when the anti-gun law makers speculated that it was "too powerful" for civilian shooting. We see how they can pull anything out of thin air and use it as rationale. Again, Ronnie had the balls to tell the LAPD to go pound sand!!


gocatgo, really? Criminals love the NRA? Did you read Chris Dorner's manifesto? I do believe you have it wrong my friend.

Why Did Some Local Media Edit Out Anti-NRA, Pro-Obama Portions of Accused Cop-Killer’s Supposed Manifsto?




"The supposed manifesto of a fired Los Angeles police officer being sought in several slayings contained praise for President Barack Obama and gun control and disdain for the National Rifle Association in portions apparently redacted at the request of the LAPD."









[Edited by: jamofsocal at 2/26/2013 12:33:33 PM EST]
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RAB2010
All-Star Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 11:46:24 AM

Firearms manufacturers may refuse to sell to whom ever they wish. It seems just and good that they refuse to arm those who demonstrate despotic behavior. It is good to see rational leadership on this topic for a change, versus the panic-stricken, hoplophobic, emotion-laden rants of mentally ill persons screaming that gun control is the answer - to any thing.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 9:46:54 AM

10 myths about gun control
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 11:51:00 AM

gocatgo,
What'd you ever do to Hellrazor? lolEvery teacher in my state gets a criminal background check and it takes weeks. Compare that to the tens of thousands of gun buyers. You won't get a full criminal background check for gun purchases. Far better to have an updated list of felons and mentally disturbed available to any gun dealer with an access code for a state police database and a few clerks to keep it accurate and up-to-date.
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 4:27:29 PM

QUOTE :::It is nothing but meaningless political grandstanding.
:::


It is a form of protest identical to what the Occupy movement does. And like the Occupiers it has had identical results. This story is national news and has showcased the agenda of the left. Which is to subvert the US Constitution.

The left is squirming under the glare of national publicity on this issue. I gotta admit though I never heard of some of these boycotting gun makers. Nonetheless, they have brought the left's agenda front and center. Entertaining to watch the liberals run for cover,(so to speak) heyheyhey.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 12:03:47 PM

Jam, "law abiding citizens" sell their guns to anyone with a wad of cash. if you want to challenge that point go for it. Criminals that buy guns love the Nra and their members. Gun companies are loving it.

oil, "if I had reason to believe it was a straw buy ...." you my friend have my undying respect.

Daurel, "proof" gun companies are on the side of the Nra that pushes the sale of guns. Are gun companies demanding the gun show loophole be closed? No. How about the fact that private citizens can and will sell to the first buyer with a wad of cash?

Tim, demanding a criminal check for every buyer is a "fantasy" only to those that are concerned about criminals getting guns. You apparently are not concerned about how easy it is for a criminal to get a gun. And you are worried about "the safety of people", yeah right.

Black, "citizens have the same rights to weapons that the govt uses", sounds like something from Yahoo inc. An M-60, mortars & grenades, just what every homeowner and hunter needs.

There are some gun nuts that are truly nutty. In the case of some of these people, they should be more concerned about paying their bills than buying another weapon and an extra 100 or more rounds of ammo. It's all about priorities.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 12:17:20 AM

Gun dealers will sell over priced guns and ammo to anyone (legal) with the cash.

hahaha, legal...
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worryfree
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 11:05:47 PM

Gun dealers will sell over priced guns and ammo to anyone (legal) with the cash.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 5:12:08 PM

@JD --- that looks lke a severe case of sore-loseritis. This constant shouting of "go away! we don't want to play with you!" from the right is getting old and sounds something like would come out of the mouth of a petulant child than adults.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 4:56:04 PM

a couple of intertesting signs from a few months ago, I understand there are more of these all over the country now, I know that I've see well over 80 of them in a 200 mile radius
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 3:23:38 PM

As I said before the WHOLE DEPARTMENT should be rounded up and FIRED!!!!This BS is a spray bullets and pray police policy!!!
Yet we hear NOTHING from the sh!@t for brains gun grabbing LIBERALS!

[Edited by: Daurel at 2/23/2013 3:25:53 PM EST]
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 3:21:50 PM



The LAPD is still searching for former officer Christopher Dorner, and has been shooting innocent people in the process. Two women in Torrance, Calif. were shot late last week, during the height of the massive manhunt, kicked off by Dorner shooting the daughter of an ex-LAPD police chief and her fiancé.

Officers believed that the blue pickup truck the women were riding in, matched that of Dorner's and riddled the vehicle with bullets. One of the women was shot in the hand, while the other was hit in the back. Both were taken to hospitals and have not had their identities revealed.

Also in Torrance, a second shooting took place at 5:45 a.m., but no one was injured.
Read more at http://hiphopwired.com/2013/02/11/police-shoot-2-innocent-women-in-pursuit-of-ex-lapd-officer-christopher-dorner/#h0hhMK2ADhiJp1bL.99

There you go oilpan
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 1:01:20 AM

jams - did you also know that Barrett, in order to get around the ban on .50 BMG shoulder fired rifles, has developed a new round? The new gun will be in a new caliber called ".460 Barrett". It's supposed to ballistically rival the "big .50" up to 1000 years. That, and it gets around California's foolish law.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 1:20:59 PM

oilpan4 - "Do you have a news article on this?!?!?
I have seen nothing like this in the news.
There are so many police shootings in California this one is proving hard to find."

It was in the news. Seven police officers who were assigned to protect a supervisor, saw the vehicle approaching. Without checking they assumed the vehicle contained the ex-cop on a rampage and decided to shoot first.

One woman was driving and tossing out newspapers to customer's homes. Her mother was in the back seat folding newspapers to be thrown and dropping them in the front seat.

Mistaken identity? Hah! More like incompetence and criminal misbehavior.

You should be able for find more by goggling what you find in these three reports. Have fun.

The police opened fire riddling the vehicle with bullets but none hit the driver and only a couple hit her mother in the back seat. Many of the bullets fired missed completely and damaged a lot of the home and put the residents in danger of being hurt including the person they were supposed to protect.

This is attempted murder on the part of the seven police officers. It would not have mattered even if the person they thought they were shooting at was the right person. Had they actually killed anyone it would have been murder.

So far I haven't heard if these criminals in police uniforms have been charged. I suspect they are trying to cover it up.

Here are some links for ya (they were pretty easy to find_:
Two Women Delivering Newspapers Shot By LAPD After Being Mistaken For Christopher Dorner

Manhunt On for Ex-Officer Accused of Police Vendetta

Women Shot By Police in Case of Mistaken Identity in Ex-LAPD Officer's Manhunt

You should be able to google up more links using information in these three articles.

[Edited by: BlackGumTree at 2/22/2013 1:23:59 PM EST]
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 1:13:35 PM

Let us also give credit to Ronnie Barrett who was one of the first to refuse service to California LEOs after the Legislature banned .50 cal BMGs despite the fact that none were ever used in a crime. They were banned merely because the anti-gun law makers "speculated" at it could be used as a terrorist weapon.

GO RONNIE!!
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 11:58:08 AM

"Not me after the dipsticks in Calf shooting at anything that even was a pickup we need to be able to shoot back! As if a blue pickup with two Asian women look's like a black man that was a stretch And two older people in a bright orange pickup look's like a grey pickup I think the whole department needs rounded up and FIRED! "

Do you have a news article on this?!?!?
I have seen nothing like this in the news.
There are so many police shootings in california this one is proving hard to find.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 2/22/2013 12:01:49 PM EST]
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 11:34:34 AM

Citizens have the right to the same weapons and magazines that the government uses. Anything less is a violation of the 2nd amendment.
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 9:29:02 AM

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
Olympic Arms is a staunch believer in and defender of the Constitution of the United States, and with special attention paid to the Bill of Rights that succinctly enumerates the security of our Divinely given Rights. One of those Rights is that to Keep and Bear Arms.

Legislation recently passed in the State of New York outlaws the AR15 and many other firearms, and will make it illegal for the good and free citizens of New York to own a large selection of legal and safe firearms and magazines. We feel as though the passage of this legislation exceeds the authority granted to the government of New York by its citizens, and violates the Constitution of the United States, ignoring such SCOTUS rulings as District of Columbia v. Heller - 554, U.S. 570 of 2008, McDonald v. Chicago - 561 U.S. 3025 of 2010, and specifically the case of United States v. Miller – 307 U.S. 174 of 1939.

Due the passing of this legislation, Olympic Arms would like to announce that the State of New York, any Law Enforcement Departments, Law Enforcement Officers, First Responders within the State of New York, or any New York State government entity or employee of such an entity - will no longer be served as customers.

In short, Olympic Arms will no longer be doing business with the State of New York or any governmental entity or employee of such governmental entity within the State of New York - henceforth and until such legislation is repealed, and an apology made to the good people of the State of New York and the American people.

If the leaders of the State of New York are willing to limit the right of the free and law abiding citizens of New York to arm themselves as they see fit under the Rights enumerate to all citizens of the United State through the Second Amendment, we feel as though the legislators and government entities within the State of New York should have to abide by the same restrictions.

This action has caused a division of the people into classes: Those the government deems valuable enough to protect with modern firearms, and those whose lives have been deemed as having less value, and whom the government has decided do not deserve the right to protect themselves with the same firearms. Olympic Arms will not support such behavior or policy against any citizen of this great nation.
hep0950 So you want to be considered a second class citizen?

Not me after the dipsticks in Calf shooting at anything that even was a pickup we need to be able to shoot back! As if a blue pickup with two Asian women look's like a black man that was a stretch And two older people in a bright orange pickup look's like a grey pickup I think the whole department needs rounded up and FIRED!
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 8:17:50 AM

Safety of the people?! If we were actually concerned about THAT, we would make a mandatory ten-year federal sentence for any one caught with an unregistered firearm while on probation for a felony. We won't, because it would disproportionately affect black men, but it would certainly make us safer. Federal CC permits valid in all states would go a long way toward safety as well, but gunhaters refuse to look at the compelling evidence of that fact. Instead they want to ban all guns and pretend that it will make everything better. Remember the riots of the late 60's, Rodney King, etc.? Where were they armed police protecting unarmed citizens then? Unfortunately, such events will happen again...
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 8:12:16 AM

Maryland, Land of taxes and hypocrites, passed a tough new gun control bill out of committee to the legislature. It bans assault weapons, magazines over ten rounds, and many other things. The exemption, it is OK to MANUFACTURE assault weapons here and sell them to other states. Why?! Baretta manufactures in Maryland.
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hep0950
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 1:45:26 AM

Yes, let's not allow police to get guns. Shall they boycott the military also? I've seen some lame brain ideas, but this one beats them all. Like little kids, they are going to take their ball and go home. znever mind the safety of the people.
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stlhawk
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:45:38 PM

Freedom of association, so yes. States are not a protected minority, yet.
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owt
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:42:56 PM

Yep, they can chose not to sell to anyone they chose.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 8:35:13 AM

I refused sales all the time when I managed a liquor store, and worked armed, because common sense prevailed. Once refused an obviously drunk customer who drove in and he went out to his car and passed out, with the car running. I reached in the window, turned off the car and took his keys back inside the store. Four hours later, he came in and asked if I had his keys. I asked if he was now sober enough to drive and he said yes and thanked me for keeping him from driving earlier.

It's tougher to tell if a customer is insane, rather than drunk, but I doubt that gocatgo's assessment that gun retailers and manufacturers only care about profit and sell to "crazy people" if they have the money. That sounds more like a liberal fantasy fulfilment.
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worryfree
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 12:25:24 AM

Sure they can. Just as some municipalities havew stopped buying Bushmaster guns. Glock, SIG and Beretta might not join a boycott-they are made in foreign countries..
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 12:05:05 AM

I'd like to see S&W, Coltec (parent of Colt), Remington, Glock, Sig, Barretta and ATK all join in on the ban. Let's see what happens when the police can't buy new weapons nor decent Ammo.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 10:47:45 PM

Participating in a gun buy back because you believe that the criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you believe that the neighbors have too many kids.
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 4:57:03 PM

gocat If gun companies don't mind selling to crazy people and criminals why would they mind selling to states with tough gun laws? These people only care about making money and aren't too choosy who the buyers are.Please provide proof for your statement.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 3:21:43 PM

"If gun companies don't mind selling to crazy people and criminals why would they mind selling to states with tough gun laws"?

Its the difference between having a few thousand state government customers versus having a few million potential citizen customers, plus all the state gov stuff too.

nstrd, "they have a right to refuse sales"
I worked as a licenced firearms dealer for a couple years. I was always encouraged to refuse a sale if I had reason to believe it was a straw buy, if I knew things about the individual (if they were a drug head, violent drunk, so on and so fourth), if they said or did any thing that would make me think they may use the firearm for anything other than lawful reasons.
If we had iphones and facebook and stuff like that back then I would be trying to look the person up on there too while the FBI was doing their thing.
The owner didn't like it when the state police came around. (rumor is he or his wife sued the state police many years ago for a rather large amount of money and some cops may have went to jail over it)
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 2:58:32 PM

In this thread the liberals were supporting the right of a company to ONLY sell to government agencies and law enforcement. It was stated that the company had the right to only sell to law enforcement because not being law enforcement was not a protected class. If that was true in that case, then shouldn't the same be true in this case? Shouldn't the company be able to state that they will or won't sell to a customer who is government? That isn't a protected class, is it?

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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 2:33:57 PM

This does harken back to the discussion of whether the general public should be allowed to defend itself against a tyrannical government.

In other words, if the government has self loading rifles, then the law abiding public should be allowed to have the equivalent.@gocatgo: I think you are mistaking law abiding gun retailers with the Obama administration. Fast and Furious? Remember who was responsible for that?



[Edited by: jamofsocal at 2/19/2013 2:37:54 PM EST]
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 2:24:37 PM

If gun companies don't mind selling to crazy people and criminals why would they mind selling to states with tough gun laws? These people only care about making money and aren't too choosy who the buyers are.

nstrd, "they have a right to refuse sales" the racists tried that one when blacks entered their diners too. You want to tell me what happened on that one?
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 9:05:45 AM

This will only work if they ALL stick together & get ALL the gun companies to abide by it.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 11:37:48 PM

I have read that barret refuses sales and service to the state of california for any of their products that fire the 50BMG round.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 9:07:27 PM

They have every right to refuse sales if they choose to.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 6:57:30 PM

It is nothing but meaningless political grandstanding.
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 3:30:55 PM

I wonder what percent of their business is with state and local governments?

One of the companies stated that they have an eight month wait list for some of their guns.

With that backlog it is easy for them to talk the talk.
As soon as there is a downturn they will be back begging to be put back on the list.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:29:14 PM

I'm not sure it would be legitimate to discriminate against anyone.

What I would suggest is they jack up their prices so that anyone in a state or other place without strict gun control laws is gets a 999% discount bringing the price back down to what it is now.

Then those state governments will not be able to cry discrimination just because they don't qualify for the discount.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:20:26 PM

What I am waiting to see is if the gun manufactures in New York have the brass to follow through with the threat to move out of New York.

The move would cost the state hundreds if not thousands of jobs, millions in tax revenue and the manufactures will more than likely move to right to work states costing the unions more membership.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:17:08 PM

I don’t see any way that a private company can be forced to sell a product to anyone, including the government. Especially if the government has stated that the product in question can’t be sold or possessed in that jurisdiction.

What will the state do, claim that they are in violation of the law for obeying the law.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:04:30 PM

hooah
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:01:44 PM

If its still a free country they should be able to choose who they do business with or not.
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cymk
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:00:46 PM

I like the idea, as a private company, standing up for thier rights to sell thier goods to consumers without being overly restricted by a state or governemnt agency. But this will do little to stop the government or state agencies form purchasing weapons/goods from said companies. Instead of a single agent acting for the local police department (or federal alphabet agency) purchasing weapons and ammo in bulk, they could farm it out to the individual officers/agents and reimburse them for what they buy.
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