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Author Topic: Yes, People ‘Need’ Large-Capacity Magazines! Back to Topics
sissurf

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Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 1:25:20 PM



Yes, People ‘Need’ Large-Capacity Magazines

"Violent, thieving mobs — called flash mobs because they spring up almost instantaneously, loot and ransack a business and disperse within a minute or two — have been seen across the country over the past several years. Not surprisingly, they’ve now made their way into New York City.

Newsstand and convenience store owners in New York say the mobs of 20, 30, 40 or more are hitting their establishments regularly, stealing merchandise, damaging property and injuring customers.

“They assemble, they do whatever it is they’re going to do, and then they disassemble in a matter minutes. By the time somebody recognizes what is happening or is injured, if the police are able to respond, it is slow,” Jon Shane, assistant professor of criminal justice at John Jay College told CBS New York.

Raj Shmara owns a newsstand at Broadway at 55th Street. Shmara said his newsstand has been targeted seven different times by mobs of teens. During an attack just last week, the kids threw a bottle at an employee who had to be hospitalized. Watching a video of the mob attack is frightening. Dozens of youths crawl over one another like a pack of dogs scuffling over one food bowl.

New York business owners are trying to “protect themselves” by installing surveillance cameras because they say they aren’t getting any help from New York police.

And, of course, thanks to the recently passed New York gun control legislation, New York business owners can’t really protect themselves. Scary-looking black semi-automatic personal defense weapons with large magazines are now banned in the city because the State’s government decided no one “needs” a weapon with a large-capacity magazine.

A gun now legal in New York with a magazine holding only seven rounds wouldn’t be sufficient to take out a third of some of those mobs. But a store owner holding an AR-15 with a 30-round mag and another at his side would serve as a great deterrent to a mob of 20, 30 or 40 thugs."
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 7:40:47 PM

Oopsie!

Take the advice of an idiot...get arrested!

[Edited by: jeskibuff at 3/3/2013 7:41:29 PM EST]
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 4:45:01 PM

I want an AR-15
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ministorage
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 4:41:30 PM

Neat story.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 4:25:19 PM

An ideal woman shot gun is youth modle mossburg 500 or Remington 870 (heavier framed pump guns) in 20ga.
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HELLRAZOR
Champion Author Las Vegas

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 3:40:55 PM

Joe Biden Says Women Need a Shot Gun Not An AR15
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:30:23 PM

"If someone from DC purchases a firearm in Virginia that is an legal act. If he takes it back to DC then he is wilfully committing a criminal act."

Good luck buying a gun from a dealer in virginia if you can't prove you are a virginia resident.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:30:12 PM

"If someone from DC purchases a firearm in Virginia that is an legal act. If he takes it back to DC then he is wilfully committing a criminal act."

Good luck buying a gun from a dealer in virginia if you can't prove you are a virginia resident.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:25:24 PM

25 states allow any one to buy a gun, strap it on and walk down the street with no permit of any kind: some say its crazy. How ever 4 out of 5 murders are committed in the other half of the country: so who's crazy?
-Andrew Ford

I say its flawless proof gun banners are insane, stupid or both.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 2/19/2013 1:26:50 PM EST]
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:14:24 AM


Security Guard Uses AR-15 To Fend Off Armed Holdup

The way to stop bad guys with guns is for good guys to have bigger guns with more rounds available.

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 5:20:50 PM

"If someone from DC purchases a firearm in Virginia that is an legal act. If he takes it back to DC then he is wilfully committing a criminal act."

And is he sells it privately to someone in DC without getting caught he is part of the problem and an excellent example of how to exploit loopholes in the law.
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inpursuitofJC
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:24:20 PM

"Black, "just across the river in DC it is different", all you have to do is go to Va a few miles away and buy all the guns and mags you want. All you need is a wad of cash and someone looking for a buyer, no waiting, it is that easy."

Get your facts straight!

For ever firearm, pistol, rifle, or shot gun you have to do State and Federal paper work in Virginia. The same way you have to in any other state.

If someone from DC purchases a firearm in Virginia that is an legal act. If he takes it back to DC then he is wilfully committing a criminal act.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:19:16 PM

gocatgo - "Black, "just across the river in Dc it is different", all you have to do is go to Va a few miles away and buy all the guns and mags you want. All you need is a wad of cash and someone looking for a buyer, no waiting, it is that easy."

That is correct, gocatgo! And we don't have a problem with "Gun Violence" in Virginia, not in Arlington (which is the Virginia half of DC), not in tidewater Virgina, or in Danville, or anywhere in Virginia.

Kinda strange, isn't it? Goes against your way of thinking, Virginia should have all the violence, and DC should be peaceful.

Why do you think it is the way it is, instead of the way you think it would be?
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 11:10:23 AM

Fly, we see the limits of law every time we break one.

Black, "just across the river in Dc it is different", all you have to do is go to Va a few miles away and buy all the guns and mags you want. All you need is a wad of cash and someone looking for a buyer, no waiting, it is that easy.

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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 10:29:57 AM

gocatgo - "Btw how many reported "flash mobs" have hit Pembroke or Military Circle Malls in the last 40 years? Get back with me on that."

We don't have problems with "flash mobs" in Virginia because Gun ownership is not restricted.

But just across the Potomac River in Washington, DC, the story is very different. When the High Schools in Washington, DC, had rifle clubs, it was a non-violent peaceful city. Today, Washington, DC, has some of the strictist gun control laws in the nation. And since those laws went into effect, Washington, DC has become the Murder Capital of the Nation.

I doubt that sissurf wants Gun Control laws and the violence that goes with them.

And sissurf, please promote my friend Ken for governor. Thanks.

[Edited by: BlackGumTree at 2/18/2013 10:31:29 AM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 1:46:52 PM

SemiSteve, "shooting from the hip" shot off his mouth saying: "--I'm sure that whacko loose gunman in LA thought HE did."

--Well, Steve, you are utterly and completely WRONG again. I saw the complement of weapons that he had that the police were showing. I saw about 6 handguns and one hunting rifle. None of them had 30 round magazines. However, some Glock handguns do have 17 round mags. But then again, unless you are a LEO or in the military, and have a need to have one in the line of duty, high-cap mags are totally illegal here in the Land of Fruits and Nuts. So what's up with that? It was already illegal in CA. Oh, yeah, but he didn't have a mag fed semi-auto rifle, and he didn't have high-cap mags. I guess your assertion that banning these mags/weapons have once again been "shot to heck".
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 1:28:46 PM

Hey we will welcome them with open arms here in So Utah.
.
>>>The Democratic-controlled Colorado House of Representatives gave early approval to a bill limiting ammunition magazines to 15 rounds on a voice vote Friday, despite threats by at least two companies to close shop and move to a more gun-friendly state.

One of those companies, Magpul, makes 30-round magazines for sale to military customers, as well as other equipment for assault rifles. Alfred Manufacturing, a third-generation Colorado company, also said it would relocate if the bill becomes law.<<<

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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 1:12:57 PM

Our very own babe opined: "In fact, if the pharmacist goes for a gun, it's almost guaranteed that the robber and his accomplices are going to use theirs, while if the pharmacist just hands over what they want, there's a much greater chance that the robbers will leave without bloodshed on either side (possibly to be picked up by the cops later from a variety of methods)."

--Well, are we talking a single robber, or multiple robbers, all of whom are armed? If it's one on one, statistically the pharmacist will likely win and be able to thwart the robber, possibly killing him. Two on one, but only one perp armed - also similar result. Now if two or three perps are armed, then the pharmacist might or might not survive that - but then again, the perps might not either, not all of them, anyway.

But what you fail to realize is that in NYC, robbers generally aren't out for blood. Here in LA, and in many other cities, the armed robbers WILL kill the victims, even if they quietly comply. After all "dead men tell no tales". Also, the other thing you're not "getting" is that pharmacists often handle drugs that are addictive and marketable. For example - opiates, narcotics or even sometimes amphetamines. If the pharmacist doesn't try to thwart the robbery, then they may very well feel responsible for those drugs hitting the streets. I would have NO PROBLEM with that pharmacist shooting a drug-seeking robber dead where they stand. That way, they perhaps prevent other lives from being lost or damaged.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 12:45:52 PM

flyboy: "Gocat - do you see any limits on what you would consider the govt should be able to tell us regarding how we live our lives? "


We will have absolute freedom from government interference regarding our ability to marry any animal, vegetable, or mineral of our choice, and for our chosen spouse to get the same government freebies as we do.


mudtoe
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 11:02:57 AM

Gocat - do you see any limits on what you would consider the govt should be able to tell us regarding how we live our lives?
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 10:51:09 AM

Tax, a pawn shop owner with only one gun, yeah right. "I'm not a freakin 5 yr old", but the govt tells you how fast you can drive. The govt tells you not to litter so there's no reason why they can't tell you what capacity gun magazine you can buy.

Pop, "happiness is a belt fed weapon" that she would probably never use to defend her country because she's to busy partying.

Sis, "if legislation is passed" that's a mighty big if. Btw how many reported "flash mobs" have hit Pembroke or Military Circle Malls in the last 40 years? Get back with me on that.

The economy can't be too bad if cons have got money to blow on large capacity magazines. To let some naive cons tell the story you would think nearly every city in America was being overrun by "flash mobs". Fear is spread by ignorance.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 10:12:15 AM

"Looking for faults in others once more, instead of adding to the topic at hand, because really you are way off topic here!

Just a little run on sentence for you to enjoy!"

The former isn't a sentence.

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 2/16/2013 10:13:56 AM EST]
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 11:31:40 PM



Well I'll be!

WTKR NewsChannel 3

55 minutes ago.

"Slice by slice, one Virginia Beach pizza shop is showing its support for the Second Amendment by offering fifteen percent off pies to gun owners. We'll tell you where tonight at 11."
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 11:31:07 PM


Wow, a new person to pick on now.

Interesting Marty how spelling seems to bug you so much. Looking for faults in others once more, instead of adding to the topic at hand, because really you are way off topic here!

Just a little run on sentence for you to enjoy!

By the way, you must have the most perfect understanding wife sitting at home. No one could possibly fill her shoes.

OK, stepping off my soap box once more.

Back to the subject at hand..
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 6:17:51 PM

You'd be better off with a spelling checker.
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 5:31:20 PM

I need a large capicity magazine when the green thugs comeafter me to comply with the green dictatoship
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 5:25:07 PM

90 days is much too long a grace period.
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sissurf
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 4:04:04 PM

Missouri Democrats Introduce Legislation to Confiscate Firearms - Gives Gun Owners 90 Days to Turn in Weapons

Missouri Democrats introduced an anti-gun bill which would turn law-abiding firearm owners into criminals. They will have 90 days to turn in their guns if the legislation is passed.

Here’s part of the Democratic proposal in Missouri:

4. Any person who, prior to the effective date of this law, was legally in possession of an assault weapon or large capacity magazine shall have ninety days from such effective date to do any of the following without being subject to prosecution:

(1) Remove the assault weapon or large capacity magazine from the state of Missouri;

(2) Render the assault weapon permanently inoperable; or

(3) Surrender the assault weapon or large capacity magazine to the appropriate law enforcement agency for destruction, subject to specific agency regulations.

5. Unlawful manufacture, import, possession, purchase, sale, or transfer of an assault weapon or a large capacity magazine is a class C felony.

[Edited by: sissurf at 2/15/2013 4:06:49 PM EST]
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no1doc
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 3:32:05 PM

Thanks sissurf, I hadn't heard of these flash mobs. They must just love gun free zones.

Here's a radio message from the only democrat I vote for consistently. The liberals are outraged by this public service message. They hate him but, conservatives love him.

Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke urges residents to take firearms classes.

Love the bumper sticker, popcorn.

When seconds matter, a 15 minute response time doesn't cut it.



[Edited by: no1doc at 2/15/2013 3:35:15 PM EST]
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 8:57:24 AM

Saw a Bumper sticker the other day

"Happiness is a Belt Fed Weapon"

Driven by a young red headed girl in a P/U truck......NICE
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 8:51:10 AM

January 28, 2013 video on gun control hearing - 5 min video
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taximan007
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 9:45:11 PM

Pawn shop shootout survivor testifies before lawmakers

RMGO member and pawn shop robbery survivor Chuck Robles being interviewed at the Capitol in Denver by CBS News 4. Had HB 13-1224 (Magazine Ban) been law, Robles would have died, as he had to fire 13 rounds to stave off three attackers.

Please tell us more about how we "don't need" high capacity magazines.

[Edited by: taximan007 at 2/14/2013 9:48:11 PM EST]
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taximan007
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 8:36:27 PM

I'm almost 50 years old. I will decide what I need or don't need. I'm not a freakin' five year old that has to be told what I "need" or "don't need".

Dangerous precedent when you start letting government determine what you "need or don't need" whether it applies to large capacity magazines or anything else.

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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 4:38:03 PM

Panama19 - "There has been some work done on shotguns since then"

Yes, and those two you linked to look considerably lighter and easier to handle. I suspect they are not intended for duck hunting either.

They might have some advantages in a fire fight, but they lack air coolers on the barrel and would not be as capable of as much continuous fire. Also in a firefight, pumpkins balls give it more range and stopping power. And I also suspect replacing the sleeve is easier and quicker than replacing a drum. But the duck gun is too heavy to use without its tripod.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 10:44:11 AM

The last time I needed a 20 round magazine was the end of 1966 in Vietnam. You want to shoot military weapons, join the army like I did at age 18. By the end of my enlistment in 1968 I did enough shooting to get it out of my system for many years. The only people that have a need for large capacity magazines are members of the military and law enforcement. For home defense, shooting game and targets, 10 round magazines are all that anyone needs. Anything else is excess.

At a time when so many (and you know who you are) are complaining about their financial state, buying large capacity magazines is not very smart. But going out and buying another gun because of fear mongering is dumber. And again you know who you are.
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Snowchoux
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 10:37:56 AM

Crooks aren't the only people you have to protect yourself from. It is also the police and politicians.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 9:56:30 AM

"Sure they would. Because they know how dangerous it is to confront armed criminals, which apparently some people on this thread don't".

oilpan4 “I take that as yes to both then with an added "its alright for the police not to do their job because real criminals are scary".”

Of course you're going to make up another strawman that you wished I'd said but didn't. I've seen lots of examples of how you 'debate'.

The fact is though oilpan, that's not what I said or even implied. Sorry to spoil your fantasy.

"And how does it end well with one pharmacist and (perhaps) several armed robbers, all with high capacity magazines, having a shootout in a store with dozens of innocent bystanders in the store"?

oilpan4 “I don't know you tell me.”

Ah, I see. It's ok for YOU to end your statement with “How does this end well?” but not for me to use the same method. Gotcha. Your typical hypocrisy.

“I didn't realize this is a common event, you must have tons of articles on such shoot outs, right?”

No, but unlike you, I actually realize that there's often other people in stores than just the clerk. And also unlike you, I can understand the concept of the robber having the drop on the person behind the counter and that if a gun is pointed at you from close range, it's too late to start reaching for your own gun regardless of how high capacity magazine it has.

But if you think you're so smart, why don't you tell me what percentage of the time the clerk pulls out a gun and successfully shoots the armed robber compared to how many times the robber shoots the clerk? Or compared to how many times the clerk just lets the robber go without resisting.

Come on. YOU asked me for such “tons of articles” so if you're so smart then YOU must have tons of articles showing how intelligent it is for the clerk to pull their gun and start shooting when they're already covered by the robber(s).

Again, common sense would tell you that if somebody has a gun pointed at you from close range, it's too late to start reaching for your own gun. Real life isn't the same as TV. Reaching for your own gun is almost a guarantee to make the other one pull the trigger and he's already a couple of seconds ahead of you so unless you're exceptionally fast, or just really lucky, he's going to shoot first.

If you think otherwise then you really are living in a fantasy world.

(But hey, I've seen your posts before, so it's no surprise)
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 12:41:07 AM

"Sure they would. Because they know how dangerous it is to confront armed criminals, which apparently some people on this thread don't".

I take that as yes to both then with an added "its alright for the police not to do their job because real criminals are scary".
This just keeps getting better and better.

"And how does it end well with one pharmacist and (perhaps) several armed robbers, all with high capacity magazines, having a shootout in a store with dozens of innocent bystanders in the store"?

I don't know you tell me.
I didn't realize this is a common event, you must have tons of articles on such shoot outs, right?
Cause if this happens all the time maybe we should ban them.
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regulate_now
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 9:19:09 PM

Ok
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 8:32:27 PM

"(possibly to be picked up by the cops later from a variety of methods)".

oilpan4 “Would you like a revolving door to go with that Laissez-faire stance on crime?”

This is a thread about the benefit of large capacity magazines. If you want to talk about the deficiencies of the justice system, start another thread.

“Most police would rather be out collecting revenue (traffic code enforcement) rather than going after dangerous criminals.”

Sure they would. Because they know how dangerous it is to confront armed criminals, which apparently some people on this thread don't.

"if the pharmacist just hands over what they want"

“Great idea, now you have armed perps high on pharma drugs running around with guns and a wad of drug store cash. How does this end well?”

And how does it end well with one pharmacist and (perhaps) several armed robbers, all with high capacity magazines, having a shootout in a store with dozens of innocent bystanders in the store?

Do you really think that if the perps are armed and robbing pharmacies that they might not already be high on drugs?
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 8:22:50 PM

"once the would-be robber starts brandishing the gun, the pharmacist is at disadvantage" -

regulate_now “YOU automatically know this?”

You mean YOU think you could outdraw somebody who already has their gun pointed at you? You're either VERY exceptional or you've been watching too many movies.

“and bad guys never make mistakes, nor get their attention diverted, they are infallible?”

Unless you can point to where I've even hinted at something like that, then you've got a very good imagination.

Of course they can make mistakes. But with their gun already out, they can afford to whereas the pharmacist can't.

And unlike the pharmacist, the robber isn't really worried about innocent bystanders.

“Ok, I give up! No need for police either 'cause they can't win... Victims are everywhere the police can't be...”

More evidence of your wonderful imagination, thinking of things for me to have said that I never ever thought of saying.

"if the pharmacist just hands over what they want, there's a much greater chance that the robbers will leave without bloodshed "

“Duh... unless they suBScribe to the no witnesses rule... “

At least it's a better chance than if the pharmacist started a shootout in which the robber is guaranteed to shoot back, and probably to have the first shot.

But then, how many pharmacies do you know of that don't have CCTV?

“Let 'pharmacist' be any store owner, manager, business man, jeweller, etc. - especially the one that did as you asked for years and now has been robbed (armed robbery) and starred down the barrel of a gun too many times in fear of losing his life.... THIS PERSON HAS NO RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES?”

And for the third time now you're making up things that you wished I'd said that I didn't so you could shoot it down! That's called a strawman in case you didn't know.

"don't give me any BS about the pharmacist/clerk getting the robber(s) without hitting anybody else"

“WHAT? I know TONS of folks packing heat LEGALLY and they all went thru training, have gun and military backgrounds, practice/stay proficient doing what responsible gun owners do...”

And there are tons of folk who don't. Pharmacists and doctors usually don't have time to stay proficient.

BTW, FYI I too have had military training. One thing I learned (which apparently you didn't) is that if somebody has a gun pointed at you, they have the advantage despite your training.

“Just cant blame everyone for one (some) liberal nut(s) that does it the wrong way...”

Ah yes. The typical political insult so common from conservatives these days. Apparently when conservatives can't think of a good answer, they resort to insults.

“I have a few questions for you, are you comfortable with a gun?”

Yep. I was a marksman in the army.

“Ever looked down the barrel of a loaded gun or been shot at?”

With both artillery and machine guns.

Every shot back at any one or thing? I can answer yes to all three...”

Good for you. So what does that prove? Especially if the robber is ex-military too.

“Never said anything about "mythical quick draws of Hollywood" and I alway told/taught 'em to aim at center of mass; to NOT do the Dirty Harry thing... you aim it with ONE intention, to pull the trigger and to kill... “

But the quick draw is exactly what YOU'RE talking about if you think the pharmacist can reach for his gun, pull it out, and aim for the COM before the robber pulls the trigger of the gun that was already pointed.

“However you aim it with the reasons I have put forth, no BS... “

True. The BS is in thinking that you're going to outdraw the gun that's already pointed at you. You just can't seem to get past that little technicality, can you?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 6:37:30 PM

"(possibly to be picked up by the cops later from a variety of methods)".

Would you like a revolving door to go with that Laissez-faire stance on crime?
Most police would rather be out collecting revenue (traffic code enforcement) rather than going after dangerous criminals.

"if the pharmacist just hands over what they want"

Great idea, now you have armed perps high on pharma drugs running around with guns and a wad of drug store cash.
How does this end well?

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 2/13/2013 6:38:27 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 6:22:20 PM

Marty - this is what they need to mount on the bikes - the 50 is too heavy and bulky.
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This is what them country boys put on the top of their PU trucks
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 6:09:38 PM

i agree with sisurf
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regulate_now
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 4:57:25 PM

BABE... BABE... BABE...

"once the would-be robber starts brandishing the gun, the pharmacist is at disadvantage" - YOU automatically know this? and bad guys never make mistakes, nor get their attention diverted, they are infallible? Ok, I give up! No need for police either 'cause they can't win... Victims are everywhere the police can't be...

"if the pharmacist just hands over what they want, there's a much greater chance that the robbers will leave without bloodshed " -Duh... unless they suBScribe to the no witnesses rule... Let 'pharmacist' be any store owner, manager, business man, jeweller, etc. - especially the one that did as you asked for years and now has been robbed (armed robbery) and starred down the barrel of a gun too many times in fear of losing his life.... THIS PERSON HAS NO RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES?

"don't give me any BS about the pharmacist/clerk getting the robber(s) without hitting anybody else" - WHAT? I know TONS of folks packing heat LEGALLY and they all went thru training, have gun and military backgrounds, practice/stay proficient doing what responsible gun owners do... Just cant blame everyone for one (some) liberal nut(s) that does it the wrong way...

I have a few questions for you, are you comfortable with a gun? Ever looked down the barrel of a loaded gun or been shot at? Every shot back at any one or thing? I can answer yes to all three...

Never said anything about "mythical quick draws of Hollywood" and I alway told/taught 'em to aim at center of mass; to NOT do the Dirty Harry thing... you aim it with ONE intention, to pull the trigger and to kill...

However you aim it with the reasons I have put forth, no BS...
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 3:35:24 PM


BlackGumTree, "The sleeve had a handle on the end of it so the operator could pull the shells in to the gun but when it came to firing it was fully automatic as long as the operator could pull the shells in fast enough"

There has been some work done on shotguns since then -

Full auto Saiga 12 shotgun with 30 round drum

Auto Assault 12 (AA12) Automatic Combat Shotgun


[Edited by: Panama19 at 2/13/2013 3:37:00 PM EST]
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 3:17:43 PM

When I was growing up I came across a shotgun that might work pretty well against these mobs. This model was manufactured around 1900 for use in Duck Blinds. And it was quickly made illegal for hunting (considered unsporting for hunting ducks). I don't know what its legal standing would be for self-defense.

It has a tripod it can be mounted on. I saw it mounted on its tripod on a table in a living room. It had a sleeve coming out of the left side for holding shells. I estimate the length was approximately 20 inches. It had a removable choke so that "pumpkin balls" (a single ball the diameter of the barrel could be used.) It was air cooled. The sleeve had a handle on the end of it so the operator could pull the shells in to the gun but when it came to firing it was fully automatic as long as the operator could pull the shells in fast enough. And of course, when all the shells in the sleeve had been fired, the sleeve was quickly replaceable with a fresh sleeve. And don't forget to make sure the choke is removed if you are going to fire "Pumpkin balls".

Oh yeah! I don't know the size of the bore of the barrel but it didn't look very small to a kid. Remember it was for use in firing shells at birds from a Duck Blind.

I don't know who the manufacturer was but it sounds like just the thing for these flash mobs.



[Edited by: BlackGumTree at 2/13/2013 3:22:13 PM EST]
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 2:16:09 PM

Regulate_now, I just focused on some of the most egregious examples from flyboyUT's link. You can interprest that as a focus on teens if you like, but you'd be wrong.

And in the example you gave, once the would-be robber starts brandishing the gun, the pharmacist is at disadvantage if he then starts to go for his gun. Having a gun in hand as opposed to under the counter or under his white lab coat, the robber has a big head start and all he has to do is point and shoot. Despite the mythical quick draws of Hollywood, 9 times out of 10 (or maybe even more) the guy with gun already in his hand is going to beat the guy who has to start going for his gun from a standing start.

In fact, if the pharmacist goes for a gun, it's almost guaranteed that the robber and his accomplices are going to use theirs, while if the pharmacist just hands over what they want, there's a much greater chance that the robbers will leave without bloodshed on either side (possibly to be picked up by the cops later from a variety of methods).

And if the pharmacist (or store clerk as in some of the other examples) does shoot, the chances are good that some innocent bystander in the background is going to be hit who wasn't even aware of the drama going on at the counter.

And don't give me any BS about the pharmacist/clerk getting the robber(s) without hitting anybody else. There was a case in NYC not long ago where two trained cops fired a bunch of shots at a shooter standing not 10 feet from them and hitting bystanders. The average pharmacist isn't going to be nearly as well trained in firearm use as a cop, and he's going to have a lot more adrenaline flowing as well, which isn't going to do much for his aim.
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regulate_now
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 11:45:32 AM

Marty, who's arguing to shot over "stuff." I am pointing out ARMED robbery where victims are now in fear for their lives... And even timing can mark a difference. Know the difference in most states or under common law between B&E and burglary? You add night or residence (dwelling) to the same crime and because it inherently carried more risk for the loss of life- the bar goes way up... If you are in fear for your life is the test... You know why horse thieves were hanged in the old west? Not because of only some animal being stolen but for the threat to one's life that it held in association with it...

[Edited by: regulate_now at 2/13/2013 11:46:07 AM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 11:34:12 AM

There's something fundamentally wrong with a mindset that approves of shooting people for stealing "stuff." Nobody should be shot for stealing a snack and a drink.



"I think a handlebar mounted .50 cal would be more effective. FYI, the Nicollet Mall is restricted to busses and bikes only."

Mount it on the rear of the bike and avoid pedaling. Shoot them all, and let God sort it out.


[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 2/13/2013 11:35:51 AM EST]
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Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 11:31:31 AM

"Gun in hand while riding a bike should make them a lot safer in heavy traffic."

I think a handlebar mounted .50 cal would be more effective. FYI, the Nicollet Mall is restricted to busses and bikes only.
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