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Author Topic: Wheels coming off ObamaCare Back to Topics
calwdstk

Champion Author
Atlanta

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 1:23:57 PM

Now that everyone is examining this law, they are finding out. Costs will rise for family's, some people will not be covered, namely children. Then the ultimate 9 Million less then predicted will be covered, and more. Read the full article on this from NY Times.

Wheels Coming Off - NYPOST
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 9:53:52 AM

Seems the DNC Chair needs some help in what is going on with ObamaCare.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 8:51:10 PM

AnotherOne said: "And the state politicians should be applauded and RE-elected for refusing to be part of this scam."

Except of course for the ones who spent billions of taxpayer dollars setting up their own exchanges for exorbitant cost per enrollee (see my July 15th post for more info on that).
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 8:37:20 PM

Isn't it the state legislatures that pass laws? In any case, the chickens are coming home to roost for those voters.

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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 6:22:26 PM

Marty, "People living in those states that did not set up state exchanges should be worrying about their subsidies, and should be holding accountable those state politicians who failed to act."

In Missouri and several other states the voters, remember them, passed laws that made it impossible to set up state exchanges. The voters in these states recognized what a disaster the exchange system would be and didn't want any part of it, especially the bill.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 5:18:51 PM

Gidzmo, "In the meantime, I've heard that one court ruled the subsidies unconstitutional, while another court ruled in the opposite direction."

That is not what they ruled. The law states that only people that get insurance through "state exchanges" can get subsidies.

The purpose of stating it like that was to put pressure on states to have their own exchange.

Well, 36 states did not set up their own exchanges. They are part of the federal exchange (which is NOT a state exchange).

Since the democrats rushed to pass this law (you have to pass it to see what is in it), they did not think about the what ifs (if states did not make their own exchanges anyway).

So one court took the law as passed and said that the words mean exactly what was printed, while the other court has said that Congress intended the law to say that those on federal exchanges can get subsidies.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 4:43:43 PM



Gov Mark "Target Stores Dividend Baby" Dayton set up ObamaCare in Minnesota as MNSUre.

It has been a disaster.

Corruption, overspending, failure of the website, people illegally getting insurance when they lie, etc etc etc

How typical.

So now the court says that it will cost MNSure even more.

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Gidzmo
All-Star Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 3:56:40 PM

Tried the link--"page not found". Might have been scrubbed.

In the meantime, I've heard that one court ruled the subsidies unconstitutional, while another court ruled in the opposite direction.

And the WH, of course, ignored what it does not want to hear.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 10:06:59 AM

Marty, "People living in those states that did not set up state exchanges should be worrying about their subsidies, and should be holding accountable those state politicians who failed to act."

MAYBE, the people should start holding Obama and the Democrats that voted for this law for writing such a bad law!

But they said that we have to pass it before we find out what was in it!

How about holding THEM accountable???
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 8:31:05 AM

We can only hope.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 9:13:38 PM

Here is a map of states
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 9:12:41 PM



MTMarty, " should be worrying about their subsidies, and should be holding accountable those state politicians who failed to act."

Totally upside down.

Why SHOULD they have OTHER people pay for their insurance?

The one they should hold accountable for this scam is THE ONE whose name is on it - OBAMACare!

And the state politicians should be applauded and RE-elected for refusing to be part of this scam.

;-)

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 8:41:38 PM

Court wars--how nice.

People living in those states that did not set up state exchanges should be worrying about their subsidies, and should be holding accountable those state politicians who failed to act.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 5:16:43 PM

Thanks for posting the ruling, Sgm, after reading it, it would appear that the court in essence affirmed the IRS interpretation solely because it preserves the legislation, and if they were to rule against it, it would disable the legislation. I disagree with a ruling based on damage to a law, instead of a ruling based on law.

Their interpretations could be applied to contract law, by citing that a reasonable person wouldn't have "agreed to that", so the terms of the contract are modified to preserve the "reasonableness" of a contract.

Like I said, more worms.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 5:08:44 PM

People should be worrying about their subsidies.

The law, as written is clear. So when Pelosi said "we have to pass it to find out what is in it." She really meant it, but not in the way she thought.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 4:33:22 PM

The opinion itself is publicly accessible.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 4:28:42 PM

Sgm: <<<"Here's a link to an article on the Fourth Circuit decision.">>>

--Your link won't work unless you register, can you cut and paste the gist of your link?

Incidentally, it looks like yet another worm is crawling out of the can...

[Edited by: EZExit at 7/22/2014 4:29:02 PM EST]
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 4:20:36 PM

Here's a link to an article on the Fourth Circuit decision.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 3:24:34 PM



Iammeca, "Actually there was one ruling for and one against."

Supreme Court here we come!

Maybe Chief Justice Roberts can once again argue in FRONT of the bench for Obama and tell him how he can make it legal, and the go BEHIND the bench and rule in favor of what he told Obama he could do.

CORRUPTION!

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IammeCA
Veteran Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 2:30:38 PM

Actually there was one ruling for and one against.

From nraacct's linked story:

"About 100 miles to the south in Richmond, Virginia, another appeals court panel unanimously came to the opposite conclusion, ruling that the Internal Revenue Service correctly interpreted the will of Congress when it issued regulations allowing consumers in all 50 states to purchase subsidized coverage."

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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:53:10 PM

This is going to end up in the Supreme Court no matter what. The administration has already announced their intention to appeal this ruling to the entire D.C. circuit court, seven of whose eleven members were appointed by democrats, including four by Obama himself. It's highly likely that this ruling will be overturned by these judges and that result will be appealed to the Supreme Court. Unfortunately, we are probably talking several years until we get a final ruling.


mudtoe
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:30:03 PM



Ooops! The title to the last link I gave was wrong. The link was right but the title wrong.

Let's try it again.

One can only HOPE that Laurence Tribe is right!

Obama’s Law Professor: ‘I Wouldn’t Bet’ on Obamacare Surviving Next Legal Challenge

"President Obama’s old Harvard Law professor, Laurence Tribe, said that he “wouldn’t bet the family farm” on Obamacare’s surviving the legal challenges to an IRS rule about who is eligible for subsidies that are currently working their way through the federal courts.

“I don’t have a crystal ball,” Tribe told the Fiscal Times. “But I wouldn’t bet the family farm on this coming out in a way that preserves Obamacare.”

The law’s latest legal problem is that, as written, people who enroll in Obamacare through the federal exchange aren’t eligible for subsidies. The text of the law only provides subsidies for people enrolled through “an Exchange established by the State,” according to the text of the Affordable Care Act. Only 16 states decided to establish the exchanges.

The IRS issued a regulation expanding the pool of enrollees who qualify for the subsidies."



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 7/22/2014 1:31:38 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:18:11 PM

Today's appeals court ruling is indeed in line with the law and correct. Subsidies are for purchasers on the state exchanges only. So there is a big hole in people potentially wanting to buy on a federal exchange and needing a subsidy.
Will 0bama pick up his pen and try to Executive Order a way around this court ruling? Or will he use the microphone and simply declare, out loud, that we all know what the intent of Congress was, that the non-inclusion of subsidies for federal exchange users was just an oversight? Easy enough to remedy by saying it's okay, just continue with the subsidies.

This needs to go back to Congress.

Good Luck with that, Mr. 0bama.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 7/22/2014 1:18:44 PM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:12:31 PM



One can only HOPE that Laurence Tribe is right!

It might be good to mention, in addition to what is going on in Israel, the protests around the world and the antisemitism displayed there. Frightening, indeed.

"President Obama’s old Harvard Law professor, Laurence Tribe, said that he “wouldn’t bet the family farm” on Obamacare’s surviving the legal challenges to an IRS rule about who is eligible for subsidies that are currently working their way through the federal courts.

“I don’t have a crystal ball,” Tribe told the Fiscal Times. “But I wouldn’t bet the family farm on this coming out in a way that preserves Obamacare.”

The law’s latest legal problem is that, as written, people who enroll in Obamacare through the federal exchange aren’t eligible for subsidies. The text of the law only provides subsidies for people enrolled through “an Exchange established by the State,” according to the text of the Affordable Care Act. Only 16 states decided to establish the exchanges.

The IRS issued a regulation expanding the pool of enrollees who qualify for the subsidies."

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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 12:59:38 PM



nraacct, "Obamacare was just dealt a major loss in court."

And hopefully this is just the opening shots into the ship of ObamaCare.

What is MOST hopeful is that this decision came from the uber-liberal DC court!

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nraacct
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 12:33:05 PM

Obamacare was just dealt a major loss in court.

A Court Ruling Just Blew A Huge Hole In Obamacare
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 10:56:30 AM

"There is a bipartisan effort afoot to extend the ACA workweek(past the 29-hour stipulation) to 40 hours --"

Good, fair post mweyant.

I would agree with the legislation. That fix makes sense.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 6:02:29 AM

Passer, it has been against the law for a while (before ACA) for insurance companies to cancel if consumers got sick.

Secondly, Obama did NOT make a "mistake" when he said those things repeatedly. He knew they were false and said them repeatedly. That makes them lies, not "mistakes".

In addition, Obama recently exempted territories from ACA mandates. Why is that? Are they not good enough for ACA or is ACA not good enough for those Americans?
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mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 4:55:09 AM

ObamaCare Employer Mandate: A List Of Cuts To Work Hours, Jobs

6-24-14
ObamaCare's impact on jobs is hotly debated by politicians and economists. Critics say the Affordable Care Act gives businesses an incentive to cut workers' hours below the 30-hour-per-week threshold at which the employer mandate to provide health insurance kicks in. White House economists dismiss such evidence as anecdotal, but BLS data show that the workweek in low-wage sectors sank to a record low in July — just before the Obama administration delayed enforcement of the employer mandate until 2015.

In the interest of an informed debate, we've compiled a list of job actions with strong proof that ObamaCare's employer mandate is behind cuts to work hours or staffing levels. As of June 23, our ObamaCare scorecard included 429 employers with more than 100 school districts among them. Recently, IBD explained that a big minimum wage hike alongside the employer mandate would add to pressure on employers to cut workers to part-time, complicating the goal of reducing inequality."

_____

There is a bipartisan effort afoot to extend the ACA workweek(past the 29-hour stipulation) to 40 hours --
House passes bill to change Obamacare’s workweek from 30 hours to 40

4-3-14

_____

But, govtrack says it has only a 14% chance of being passed by the Senate

H.R. 2575: Save American Workers Act of 2014

"Full Title
To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to repeal the 30-hour threshold for classification as a full-time employee for purposes of the employer mandate in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and replace it with 40 hours."
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 1:31:43 AM

"That doesn't make them more moral nor especially, more right!"

(to be clearer, the "them" is the GOP, obviously, and if not, it is spelled out here)
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 1:06:19 AM

Nst,

To be honest, you have brought up more good points. Nothing in this world is nirvana, and honestly, there are winners and losers and "cost shifting" with this plan. "If you like your insurance no one can take it away from you, period. Seriously???" The fact is, on your last point, people "liked" their substandard plans because they were cheap.

Who doesn't like anything that is cheap? But the reality is, those cheap plans allowed the companies to simply cancel anyone who got sick and if someone ACTUALLY tried to collect on that "much liked" plan, it would be cancelled asap!

What company in their right mind would not cancel a policy in which they were losing money from someone, IF THEY COULD????

It is true that Obama's statement that "if you like your insurance no one can take it away from you, period.", was wrong, and a mistake and he admitted it. But the GOP seems to enjoy Crucifying him on it as much as ancient Romans loved Crucifying their enemies but the GOP does it with more gusto and self righteousness than the Romans ever did!

That doesn't make them more moral nor especially, more right!















[Edited by: Passer at 7/21/2014 1:08:48 AM EST]
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 2:48:14 PM

Passer, lies about ACA??? Do you mean like the average family will save $2500 a year with ACA? Like "If you like your doctor, you can keep them, PERIOD." Lies like "If you like your insurance no one can take it away from you, period." Seriously???
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Troller_Diesel
All-Star Author Denver

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 4:26:52 AM

Passer 1.

Strawman 0.

You win!
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 2:37:24 AM

"If it's not hurting democrats, why aren't' they talking about it?"

Good point, nst, and the sad answer is, I don't know about "big wheels" but Republicans have generally had bigger balls than Democrats, and probably still do. The Zombie, and Bizzaro World lies about ACA like "death panels, and like the old, cheaper plans where the companies could and did drop you at will, and not cover pre-existing conditions "were better" take time to deflate like most lies from the hysterical do. And Democrats are timid creatures. But the GOP House has tried over 40 times to defeat it, sue Obama etc like spoiled little children who don't understand that throwing tantrums is not the same as governing. To the Tea Party, maybe, they succeeded in shutting down the government for a while, bless their Anarchist hearts, but "Just Say NO!" was not a success for Nancy Reagan, ultimately, and it will never be for a party that dreams of being a majority.

Its been said that one needs leather balls to play rugby; it is also true of politics and that is something the Republicans know and the Democrats must eventually learn. The ACA is less "socialistic" (a zombie lie) than Social Security but the Democrats are too afraid to point that out. Now that the Training Wheels have come off of Obamacare, it is time for the Democrats to either grow a pair or continue to play politics like they are having a Tea Party with their daughters...
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 16, 2014 6:39:37 AM

If it's not hurting democrats, why aren't' they talking about it?
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 8:45:10 PM

.
+++++++++++ "Obamacare Isn't Hurting Democrats" +++++++++++++

"Democrats received a bit of good news in two Marist/NBC Senate polls today showing Mark Udall in Colorado and Gary Peters in Michigan holding solid, though not especially large, leads. Throw these results into the polling averages, and Democrats appear to be ahead in both states."

+ ObamaCare Helping Dem Candidates +

. Republicans who just got medical insurance under ObamaCare switching to Dem side...
_______________________________________________________________________

+++++++++++++++ RELIGION ERADICATION SPECIALIST ++++++++++++++
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 8:31:28 PM

Although this article is about 5 months old, I doubt that things have improved much:

"How much does it cost taxpayers to sign up one ObamaCare enrollee? In President Obama's home state of Hawaii, it's $56,819.
.
.
Washington, D.C., meanwhile, received $133.6 million in federal grants to build its exchange, but so far has signed up just 5,090 — for a per-enrollee cost of $26,242
.
.
After $180 million in grants, however, Massachusetts has enrolled only 8,139 in its new exchange — or $22,124 per enrollee. It had expected 250,000 people to buy an ObamaCare plan in the first year.

Of the 14 states that set up their own exchanges, just three — New York, Rhode Island, and Connecticut — have hit their enrollment targets. Eight, plus D.C., are still below 50%. Even Kentucky, which is often cited as a big ObamaCare success story, is just 22% toward its goal.

And these figures could be inflated because some states aren't reporting how many have actually paid. In Vermont, for example, 20% of those who enrolled have yet to pay their first premium. Some states have a much lower payment rate.
.
.
Exchanges in California, Minnesota, Washington State, Oregon and Hawaii face deficits and possible insolvency if they can't find ways to bring in more money."
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 8:14:04 PM

From I75at7AM's post: "The widespread problem even young, Internet-literate and well-educated customers found with the website indicates that the Obama administration has a lot of improvements to make..."

Can we name even ONE THING that the Obozo administration has improved?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 6:34:37 PM

TANSTAAFL - there are consequences for doing bad things. People have this annoying habit of responding to events.... Pay someone less and they dont want to do the work. Geeeeeee will liberals ever understand that?????
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>>>The number of doctors accepting Medicaid patients in California dropped by a quarter from 2013, at the same time that two million new Obamacare expansion patients are joining the rolls.
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Many doctors have chosen not to continue providing for Medicaid patients in the state after Obamacare forced an update of provider requirements, according to Medi-Cal spokesman Anthony Cava. The updated requirements “have strengthened the department’s ability to deny or terminate providers who do not comply with application requirements,” Cava said.

Others were dropped from the list of participating physicians because they hadn’t accepted a Medicaid patient in the past 12 months, Cava said.

“This has not resulted in a decrease in access to care,” Cava insisted, according to California Health Report.

But Medicaid patients nationwide already struggle to find doctors that accept the coverage, which typically has the lowest physician reimbursements of any federal program. Earlier this year, a Merritt Hawkins survey of physicians in top cities across the country found that just 45 percent of physicians in the 15 biggest cities in the country take Medicaid patients.<<<




Lets see if I understand the (liberal) thinking here - “This has not resulted in a decrease in access to care,”. So you increase teh number of people needing care under that program by leaps and bounds at the same time that more and more doctors are saying they will not treat these paitents because the pay is not sufficient to cover costs and this will have no effect. Suuuuuuuuuure it will have no effect.
.
.
.
.

Another one of them nasty ol TANSTAAFL thingies hitting the liberals twixt the eyeballs
.
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>>>Chicago’s public health system is facing a massive $67 million shortfall after an early adoption of Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion cost much more than expected, Crain’s Chicago Business reports.

Cook County, which encompasses Chicago and its surrounding suburbs, made a deal with the Obama administration to get an early start on the health care law’s Medicaid expansion in 2012.

But the resulting program, CountyCare, is costing millions more than original projections. The prototype Medicaid expansion lost Cook County $21 million in the first six months of operation — that’s expected to balloon to $63.5 million by November 30, according to the Chicago Tribune.<<<


[Edited by: flyboyUT at 7/15/2014 6:38:38 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 1:08:42 PM

News:
0bamacare Misses Its Target on the Uninsured by Half

On second thought, not really news.....
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mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 5:03:47 AM

Obamacare Hikes Insurance Rate by 411 Percent for Missouri’s Male Millennials

7-13-14

"“Among men, the county with the greatest increase in insurance prices from 2013 to 2014 was Buchanan County, Missouri, about 45 miles north of Kansas City: 271 percent,” according to Forbes’ number cruncher Avik Roy.

His overall analysis of 3,137 counties found Obamacare increased individual-market premiums by an average of 49 percent. The numbers were culled using Forbes’ national rate navigator, which allows people to see what Obamacare is doing to insurance rates in their section of the country.

In short, the cost of health care more than tripled over the course of a year, leading some to question whether the cost might be higher for a young professional just out of college."
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mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2014 4:46:45 AM

The Great Unknown: ObamaCare cost unclear amid changes to the law

7-11-14

"President Obama’s health care law has been delayed and changed so many times that the official budget scorekeepers can no longer keep track of what the law costs.

The changes, and the overall uncertainty regarding the price tag, are raising concerns about whether the law even has enough revenue coming in to pay for the program.

“Right now the savings that was projected to pay for all this spending is not being collected as originally projected," said Charles Blahous, of the Mercatus Center. He estimated the law will eventually cost $200 billion a year by 2020.

The unilateral changes to the law – and specifically delays of the requirement that certain employers provide health coverage to workers – are the subject of a recently announced lawsuit by House Speaker John Boehner.

But apart from that, the changes have caused problems for the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, which typically keeps track of what laws cost. Joe Antos, of the American Enterprise Institute, noted the office has said they won’t do “new estimates” of the law anymore."
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mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2014 12:29:56 AM

A Republican Victory on the Front Lines of ObamaCare

7-11-14

"In ObamaCare, President Obama "got away" with cutting Medicare for seniors to pay for extending Medicaid "before people had a chance to understand it," the letter to seniors said. "Now, Governor McAuliffe is trying to do the same thing with Medicaid expansion in Virginia."

The resistance by Republicans is rooted in two other factors. They don't trust Washington to stick with the plan to fund 90% of the cost of more Medicaid. And they regard Medicaid as a flawed program—which delivers poor care at high cost, is badly administered, and suffers from chronic fraud—as numerous studies have concluded. "It would be one thing if it were a well-working system," Mr. Howell said. "It's a broken system."

Meanwhile, public opinion on Medicaid has soured. In January a poll by the Wason Center for Public Policy at Christopher Newport University found that 38% of Virginians opposed the Medicaid expansion. By late April, 53% were against it."
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2014 11:08:43 AM

 
Study: Even The Highly Educated Can’t Get HealthCare.gov To Work
(and the "Enroll Today" psa spot is playing on the radio as I type this)

"Even highly educated young adults struggle to understand and navigate HealthCare.gov, according to a study published Tuesday in the Annals of Internal Medicine."

"Young, Internet-literate, highly-educated professionals struggled with poor access to information on HealthCare.gov — details on the plans, comparisons, subsidies and even basic health insurance terms were too hard to come by.
University of Pennsylvania researchers followers 33 subjects for three months..."

"The widespread problem even young, Internet-literate and well-educated customers found with the website indicates that the Obama administration has a lot of improvements to make..."

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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2014 9:45:54 PM

Gee, like we didn't see this coming

A freakin third grader could have seen this coming.
I wonder if Obama will see it on the news someday.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2014 9:11:59 AM

Passer, we rarely agree, so thanks for pointing out when we do.

I see this whole thing as mostly a common sense issue. It is, as described, a very narrow ruling that will not affect very many people, and then the effects are only who pays for a fairly inexpensive item.

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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Joined:Jan 2004
Message Posted: Jul 8, 2014 1:14:16 AM

"ObamaCare didn't have wheels to begin with. You can't expect a program so poorly thought out, so economically wrong, and so incredibly stupid to even have a tiny chance of success..."

One good turn deserves another:

The wheels have come off Obamacare

except that they were the training wheels...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:7,596
Points:1,087,210
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Jul 7, 2014 9:44:34 PM

>>I agree. I am not really concerned about the Hobby Lobby ruling because it is a narrow ruling that I can agree with. A religious employer should not have to pay for items that he is religiously against. That doesn't mean that the employees can't get it, just that the employer can't be forced to pay for it. <<

That is the whole point of this argument. Should the owners of Hobby Lobby be forced to pay for a product that they have a deeply held feeling is wrong. They aren't saying employees can't use it, they are just saying they won't pay for it. Everything else about this case is just noise.
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Troller_Diesel
All-Star Author Denver

Posts:538
Points:5,870
Joined:Jun 2014
Message Posted: Jul 7, 2014 9:31:10 PM

Wheels coming off ObamaCare

I respectfully request to be allowed to disagree.

ObamaCare didn't have wheels to begin with. You can't expect a program so poorly thought out, so economically wrong, and so incredibly stupid to even have a tiny chance of success...
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

Posts:19,337
Points:2,332,910
Joined:Jan 2004
Message Posted: Jul 7, 2014 9:06:49 PM

"Now, if the employer Hobby Lobby has a stated policy against an employee using such a product in the privacy of their own medical care, then I would have a huge problem with that employer."

I agree. I am not really concerned about the Hobby Lobby ruling because it is a narrow ruling that I can agree with. A religious employer should not have to pay for items that he is religiously against. That doesn't mean that the employees can't get it, just that the employer can't be forced to pay for it.

Of course those Conservatives that bear false witness against me (and saying words to the effect that Troller did) will just have to take up the false witness on Sunday. His Lord will forgive him if he doesn't have the pride to stop him and he asks for it and so will I whether he asks for it or not.

But great post, I75 and I agree with you 100% in spite of all the Conservative insults and misrepresentations from others.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:18,734
Points:1,687,675
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Jul 7, 2014 6:52:49 PM

Looking like double digit percentage increases for people who bought through the exchanges after only 1 year. Hmm...where are these rates going in the future?
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