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Author Topic: I now realize how unfair our tax system is.... Back to Topics
AFSNCO

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Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 11:33:29 AM

Last year I paid over $15,000 in tuition and fees and I do not qualify for any education tax breaks because of my income.
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EvPv
Champion Author Maine

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2013 12:17:55 AM

agreed MahopacJack.
The responsible ones get penalized with low interest rates below the real rate, and the fake rate of inflation. Plus debt is now cheap, so people can take on more to stimulate the economy.

A house of cards.
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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 10:24:04 PM

This year our incompetent leaders are outdoing themselves! I just heard retail sales are down considerably as a result of tax refunds being late and the reinstatement of payroll taxes.

BTW, the payroll tax cut was passed to stimulate the economy. It temporarily accomplished that until buffoons of DC realized it jeopardizes Social Security.

And we keep votin' 'em in.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 9:10:56 PM

"And the juice remains sour to the last drop."

If it is so sour why do you insist on trying to take it then?
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 8:25:44 PM

You might have a point if I was a Democrat.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 7:41:06 PM

gocat: "Any change in the tax code that causes the wealthiest 1% or small businesses to pay one more dollar in taxes will never get by cons in Congress."


In return for a balanced budget constitutional amendment and a limit on entitlement spending to a reasonable percentage of GDP I would support higher taxes, including on the wealthy, to pay down the debt and support a sustainable level of entitlements. Without those though there is no point because the path we are on leads to ruin no matter how high taxes go.


mudtoe
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 9:01:57 AM

""And the juice remains sour to the last drop. ""

AH Yes... The Democrat Mantra

Squeeze all you can out of the Tax Payer....Throw him away & do the same to the next person in line....
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 7:13:50 PM

"You cannot keep squeezing from the same lemon and keep making lemonade. Sooner or later that lemon runs out of juice!"

And the juice remains sour to the last drop.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 7:11:46 PM

"Afs, "complaining about how unfair the system is", this is the same system that has gotten you where you are today. "The poorer should pay a bit more" a very little bit though. The poor put nearly 100% of what they make back into the economy."

There has to be a limit. You cannot keep squeezing from the same lemon and keep making lemonade. Sooner or later that lemon runs out of juice!
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 12:27:29 PM

Ok gocat - I will bite on the bait. Tell me just how business pays a tax. Where do they obtain the money to pay the tax and what is the result of using that money to pay the tax?

As far as the self employed and income vs. business. Not a good argument. Income is what 'profit' the evil self employed business owner has left after paying the honest costs to run the business.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 12:20:16 PM

Fly, "really we need to say business does not pay tax". Ok and if everyone calls themselves a business, No one will pay taxes. The self employed would love to have your idea to be law. There are too many people that make a career of trying to beat the system which is what would happen with your idea.

Afs, "complaining about how unfair the system is", this is the same system that has gotten you where you are today. "The poorer should pay a bit more" a very little bit though. The poor put nearly 100% of what they make back into the economy.

Any change in the tax code that causes the wealthiest 1% or small businesses to pay one more dollar in taxes will never get by cons in Congress. In fact their expectations would be for the top 1% to get a tax cut. This is from the same people waiting for the tinkle down in the economy.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 12:20:43 PM

mj: "The bottom line is, savers are being slowly forced to give away their property to fund an out of control government. "


That's the idea. Private property is the epitome of evil as far as the left is concerned.



mudtoe
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 12:08:53 PM

>>Last year I paid over $15,000 in tuition and fees and I do not qualify for any education tax breaks because of my income.<<

Did you ever put money into a 529 plan where all the gains are tax-free? I'm pretty sure you qualified for those. Don't whine about "how unfair our tax system is" simply because you CHOSE to not take advantage of the tax breaks available to you at the time.

>> I was given advice a few years ago that I should have followed and I did not because I was still active duty and never imagined I would be making as much as I do today...Their advice was to not claim my children on taxes once they turn 18 and let them be their own dependent. That way they will qualify for grants for college and I would not pay a dime. But I am proud and I am happy I can provide for my children but somehow our system thinks that is a bad thing and thus punishes me...<<

So, once again, you CHOSE to not take this person's [sarc]"sage"[/sarc] advice, and now you're whining about it, giving reasons ranging from you "never imagined [you] would be making as much money as [you] do today" to you are "proud". But you do know this person was feeding you a line of BS, right? I find it hard to believe that you would be naive enough to think that all you need to do is not claim your children on your taxes and someone else will pay all their college costs.

>>That's called the politics of envy and jealousy, and it's one of the stock trades of the left.<<

I guess mudtoe forgot to read the OP.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 7:54:30 PM

"thanks to our friends the rich democrat Congressmen who made most of these loopholes for themselves"

I read an article over 10 years ago that every loophole that is in our tax code is the direct result of one of the writers of that law realizing their new tax would hurt them. Then they write some weird "break" in there and then make sure they can take advantage of it.
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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 11:44:11 AM

Many people do not realize what has been slowly happening. Currently, many people saving for retirement have very few, if any, reasonable means to save for their retirement.

If you were to determine what you think is an accurate inflation rate and compare it to what is available to investors, I am sure you would be shocked. I estimate my living expenses are growing approximately 6% annualized. (I keep accurate records of my expenditures and compare them to past personal history.)

I see nothing that comes close to that level of increase.

The 'safe' investments of savings accounts, CD's, short term Government bonds yield less than 2%. Thirteen Week Treasuries yield 0.06%, Five Year Treasuries 0.83%, Ten Year Treasuries 1.95%, and Thirty Year Treasuries 3.17%.

High Quality stocks are yielding 2 to 3%. All of these returns are taxable. Buying and selling stocks incur additional revenue (a.k.a. taxes) via transfer fees. With the Federal Reserve keeping rates artificially low, everyone is hindered from keeping pace with inflation.

The bottom line is, savers are being slowly forced to give away their property to fund an out of control government.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:54:08 AM

Mudtoe - your concern - they do want to get their hooks on your personal retirement saving accounts
.
>>>Is the same federal government that has Social Security headed for bankruptcy looking to mess with your 401(k) or IRA? Yes, according to a recent interview with Richard Cordray, the director of the so-called Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). Cordray recently said: “That’s one of the things we’ve been exploring.”

Retirement accounts are already regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission and, notwithstanding the roller coaster of the financial crisis and subsequent recovery, most Americans are much happier with their privately owned and privately managed accounts than they are with their government-promised retirement benefits. Yet the CFPB may step in with new regulations despite the fact that nothing in the thousands of pages of the Dodd-Frank Act that created the CFPB mentions retirement accounts.

That’s what’s so frightening – and unconstitutional – about the CFPB. It has boundless authority to interfere in nearly any consumer financial transaction and product anywhere in the economy, and to do so without any accountability to the American people. Its director cannot be removed even by the president absent a dereliction of duty. Its budget comes not from Congress through the annual appropriations process, but directly from the Federal Reserve, where it is formally housed. But the Federal Reserve itself is prohibited from exercising any oversight over the CFPB.<<<

This guy is also one of those who Obama appointed during the time when he unilaterally declared the Senate in recess despite the fact he has no constitutional authority to do that. This lack of authority was confirmed by a Federal court once already.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:25:57 AM

AF: " I also have a Roth IRA so I am sure that will be a target sooner or later...."


Yes, I have one of those too and I agree, it will become a target too, probably along similar lines as the 401Ks.

I figured this was coming a number of years ago and because I had a whole lot of money in my IRA that I figured would get penalized if I waited until I was 59 1/2 to touch it, I looked and found a way to start taking money out of my 401K before I was 59 1/2 without penalty (look up IRS section 72(t) rules if you are interested). I bought a vacation home in Florida and used the money every month from the IRA to pay the mortgage on the place. By carefully sizing the mortgage I was able to get the mortgage deduction to just about match the amount of money I was getting out of the IRA every year such that the deduction cancelled out the extra ordinary income tax I would otherwise have to pay on the IRA withdrawals. In essence I'm now turning pre-tax IRA money into after tax real estate without having to pay taxes on the money. I figured this all out myself, and my accountant was impressed enough that he gave the idea to some of his other clients. As I posted earlier, there are all kinds of legal ways to keep your money away from Obama, provided it's from investments and not from working, thanks to our friends the rich democrat Congressmen who made most of these loopholes for themselves.


mudtoe
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:14:10 AM

flyboy: "But the most likely method they will take is to inflate/devalue the dollar to achieve their ends. "


Yes, that's inevitable because there simply isn't enough money in the whole economy to pay off the debt, but they will do the other things like confiscate or penalty tax 401Ks at the same time, because as things get worse they will need more villains to persecute so that they can keep their jobs.


mudtoe
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:08:29 AM

Mud some proggie politicians have been talking about that for years now. In fact I started a topic on it recently. No money is safe from these people when their lust to confiscate others money boils up.

But the most likely method they will take is to inflate/devalue the dollar to achieve their ends. Just like Hugo Chavez is doing.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:04:00 AM

>>"Basically I do not feel that Social Security will be around when I am eligible to collect."<<

Don't say that to Weasle. That would make social security a pyramid scheme.

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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:01:56 AM

mud, that is very true and that will be an attack directly on the middle class. They rely on that not only for a tax savings but also as an investment for their future. I also have a Roth IRA so I am sure that will be a target sooner or later because they are going to realize that people like me who make 6-figures will be making even more in retirement and most of it will have been taxed at a lower income.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:41:07 PM

AF: "Basically I do not feel that Social Security will be around when I am eligible to collect."


Depending upon how old you are that's almost a certainty. The other danger for people with tax deferred accounts, such as 401K's, is that they are going to be an irresistible target for government once its financial situation gets worse. Mark my words that you heard it here first, but I'll bet the farm that there is going to be some sort of penalty tax applied to all tax deferred accounts over a certain value at the time you reach retirement age (I'm thinking 500K as my best guess), meaning that you will have to pay an extra 10-50% tax depending on how much over the limit the account is. It will be sold to the public as the evil rich haven taken unfair advantage of everyone else by accumulating that much money tax deferred all those years and that they shouldn't have been allowed to have that much grow without taxes, so they need to be punished by having the unfair gains confiscated. Watch and see.


mudtoe
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:30:33 PM

Mud, I am too young to take advantage of my investments yet...but they have taken a beating the last few years but hopefully the market will blow up the next 20 years and I will be worth millions when I fully retire. As soon the Thrift Savings Plan was was extended to the military I put in the maximum amount I could for the last few years of my career. I can no longer contribute to it but it is about $100K that will grow for the next 20 years. I also started a SIMPLE IRA with my new employer and I am having the fund manager put the max in, I think it goes up to $12K this year, so I can have as much as possible growing in there the next 20 years as well. Basically I do not feel that Social Security will be around when I am eligible to collect. If it is that will just be a bonus and more money for me to travel on!
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 6:58:33 PM

"But I am proud and I am happy I can provide for my children..."

Stop your thought there, and be thankful.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 6:48:30 PM

If you work for a living and get a W2, you have no chance in the tax wars because the money is taken from you before you ever see it. You have to either own a business or live off of your investments, the latter being better than the former most of the time. It's no coincidence it's that way either because the vast majority of the people in Congress are very wealthy and derive most of their income from investments.

I always laugh when our liberal posters bemoan the fact that they can't ever seem to punish the wealthy the way they want to, and that there always seems to be a way out for them. Yet they continue to elect multimillionaire democrats to Congress who are the living personifications of the people they want to get even with; and then they wonder why their wish never happens.

I'm actually glad that they are that dumb because I derive the vast majority of my income from investments too, and although my income is every bit as high as my final years working for a corporation, I pay far less federal tax than when I worked because I've learned where all the loopholes are and how to work the system the same way that the people in Congress who designed the rules for themselves do. Most of these tricks are only available if you derive most of your income from investments though. As long as our liberal friends keep electing these people to Congress I don't worry about my personal taxes going up much because I can count on those people to make loopholes for themselves that I can take advantage of. I do worry that they ruining the whole economy though.


mudtoe
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 3:41:41 PM

BTW, I was given advice a few years ago that I should have followed and I did not because I was still active duty and never imagined I would be making as much as I do today. I am not a cut-throat business man but a very calculating individual that knows how to see opportunity. Their advice was to not claim my children on taxes once they turn 18 and let them be their own dependent. That way they will qualify for grants for college and I would not pay a dime. But I am proud and I am happy I can provide for my children but somehow our system thinks that is a bad thing and thus punishes me...
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 3:38:14 PM

gocat, I am not whining about doing well...I am complaining about how unfair the system is. There is a huge difference. Read what was posted by AC-301: "It seems to me the poorer ones need to pay a bit more tax, even if we don't give a break in the top quintile at all. The lower part of society needs to realize that "free" isn't actually free."

There are too many people that are not just getting a benefit but are actually making a living off of my tax dollars. This tax break, not me asking for extra money but a break on my taxes for spending over $12,000 in tuition and a bunch of other expenses, from my taxes for helping my own children. Basically you are saying that I should not get anything for being responsible except I should feel good to give handouts!
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calwdstk
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 1:27:36 PM

Since taxing is so far from being accurate over the nation. This would seem like a good time to reform it with either Flat Tax, Fair Tax or even the one proposed by H. Cain, 9-9-9 Taxes. Some thing other then the fiasco we now have where a large conglomerate can get out paying no taxes.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 1:25:12 PM

flyboy: "But Mud, I75 and MarkJ ---- how do we get the prog/libs to acknowledge these inconvenient facts?"


I'm afraid it's impossible because it's not in their best interests to do so. They will continue their class warfare rhetoric, and act like taxes on business somehow only come out of the profits of the evil owners of the business and not from the people who buy the products, because that suits their narrative. Also, having all these hidden taxes on things gives people in government of both parties as easy way to reward their friends and punish their enemies by voting for or against these kinds of taxes depending upon who they hit, and they have absolutely no intention of giving up this power by enacting something like a flat tax (they might vote for a flat tax if it's IN ADDITION to the other taxes, but never as a replacement).

Sorry to say it, but we are basically screwed. It's survival of the fittest as far as the tax code is concerned.


mudtoe
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 1:18:09 PM

But Mud, I75 and MarkJ ---- how do we get the prog/libs to acknowledge these inconvenient facts?

I would like to see a law passed that there will be no taxes of any kind at all - under any name at all - except a everyone pays the same % income tax. All income from any source is treated exactly the same. Regardless of source with only one exception. That exception would be inheritance. When your parents or others die the money/wealth they have saved and kept all their lives has already been taxed and should not be taxed twice.

Note there are no taxes at all of any kind under any name on business. No fees, excise taxes, service charges or whatever other names they think up to obfuscate the fact it is a tax.

Nowq there are folks who dont like a income tax - ok fine then lets have no other tax except a sales tax at the retail level. Everything gets the sales tax. Its printed on the bottom of every sales receipt you get so you know how much tax your paying.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 12:52:22 PM

We effectively pay no business taxes. Our taxes are paid directly, or indirectly by customers, tenants and others as they're embedded in the costs of goods and services.

Many increases are non-transparent stealth price increases such as no longer including services and/or lower quantities, volume or quality for the same, or more money.

The most cruel forms of non transparent costs/effects are loss of jobs, evictions, or when products and services aren't affordable for many due to costs of taxes and regulations embedded in the costs.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:40:06 AM

Flyboy said it: "The real purpose of the tax system should only be to collect the revenue needed to operate the government. Right now its been warped into a monster."

That pretty much says it all.
You also mentioned "subterfuge and lies and social engineering" - all great reasons to support a Flat Tax or the FairTax and do away with all the nonsense!

But of course, with a steady stream of revenue that doesn't need to be tweaked, Congress would have to get down to brass tacks and spend the nation's money WISELY, something it appears to not want to do!
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:38:16 AM

101: "On the one hand, tax money would be coming in to the government coffers. On the other hand, as with GE, no tax money is coming in."


It's all a shell game anyway. Businesses don't pay taxes at the end of the day, people do. All a business does when it gets taxed is to pass that tax on to its customers in the form of higher prices. The tax on the people who buy the products is hidden, but it's there nonetheless.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/11/2013 11:38:46 AM EST]
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:32:37 AM

Some of us would say it would be a good thing to charge businesses a tax rate that is competitive with foreign countries (so that businesses stay in the United States) while others say that would be an unfair tax advantage for big businesses. On the one hand, tax money would be coming in to the government coffers. On the other hand, as with GE, no tax money is coming in.

Which is better?

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 2/11/2013 11:33:28 AM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:32:31 AM

flyboy: " It also means that the effective tax rate is nowhere near the stated rates."


The effective tax rate on everyone is government spending as a percentage of GDP minus what we are borrowing (i.e. the part we are pushing off on to our children and grandchildren). Government in total (federal, state, and local) spends between 40 and 45 percent of GDP, and the federal government borrows about 11% of GDP each year. That makes the "real" effective tax rate on every one of us between 29 and 34 percent on every dollar earned (i.e. from the first dollar we earn without any deductions of any kind), while the other 11% is being passed on to our children (plus interest). Now obviously this isn't being applied equally, and if you live on the dole your effective tax rate is zero because even though you are paying things like sales tax, you are paying it with someone else's money.


mudtoe




[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/11/2013 11:36:18 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 11:16:06 AM

gocat I didnt say "various tax rates". I think I said "When you add up all of the various taxes, and look at the effective tax rates".

That means to me that there are multiple different taxes on multiple things. It also means that the effective tax rate is nowhere near the stated rates. Your example of GE is a classic case.

We need to stop all the subterfuge and lies and social engineering in the tax code. First of all we need to understand that business doe not really pay tax. They just add it in to the cost of doing business and its reflected in their price or qhality of product etc. The people who buy the business products pay the taxes of the business. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themself. If the taxes are passed on to the stockholders in the form of lower dividends and lower value of he stock the people still pay the taxes.

WE honestly need to throw out the existing system that is rife with politicla games and posturing and go to a plain simple tax that everyone pays some and it easy to understand.

The real purpose of the tax system should only be to collect the revenue needed to operate the government. Right now its been warpped into a monster.

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gocatgo
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 10:57:30 AM

Fly, "various tax rates" does not explain how GE managed to pay pay Zero. There are more than enough loopholes in the system for people to pay much less that the scheduled rates but still the right complains.

Afs, it would appear that you only see lib spending as the problem which is expected from a member of the fair and balanced whiners of America aka the t party. If you have not spoken to a Cpa you should but the complaining is getting old from someone that did well in life.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 10:53:24 AM

When you actually post the facts, flyboy, our tax system seems pretty unfair. LOL [s]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 10:49:03 AM

When I look at the lower quintiles that AFSNCO posted, I am reminded of what our commander in chief, B. Hussein Obama, said (in his own words):

"Everyone has to get some skin in the game."

It seems to me the poorer ones need to pay a bit more tax, even if we don't give a break in the top quintile at all. The lower part of society needs to realize that "free" isn't actually free.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 11:38:23 PM

Amazing how easy it is for liberals to spend my money. Once again, nobody else worked for it except me. I never realized the impact that the taxes do have because I spent 27 years defending this country and even at the high enlisted rank I attained I never made 6 figures before. Now because I worked hard and improve my life situation all of a sudden I ended up earning less after taxes than I did when I was in the Air Force because of my current tax situation. In one way our system does encourage you NOT to improve yourself because it penalizes you so that the "hands out for America" liberals can reach into my pocket and rob me while I am busy working.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 12:33:25 PM

gocat - explain how a tax of multiple times higher on some is fair?

"When you add up all of the various taxes, and look at the effective tax rates, it is clear the tax system is already pretty progressive. Everyone pays some tax, even those who pay no federal income taxes, and the wealthiest pay a larger percentage share of taxes. Here’s the effective tax rate for all of the groups, according to the CBO:

Lowest quintile (23.4 million taxpayers), zero to $18,900: 4.3 percent

Second lowest quintile (22.4 million), $18,900-$32,100: 10.2 percent

Middle quintile (22.9 million), $32,100-$47,400: 14.2 percent

Fourth quintile (23 million), $47,400-$71,200: 17.6 percent

Highest quintile (23.6 million), above $71,200: 25.8 percent

Top 10 percent (12 million), minimum income of $98,100: 27.5 percent

Top 5 percent (5.9 million), minimum income of $134,400: 29 percent

Top 1 percent (1.1 million), minimum income of $332,300: 31.2 percent"


O yeah - source

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 2/10/2013 12:33:51 PM EST]
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 12:14:48 PM

175, a "fair tax" will never get off the ground if it is another tax giveaway for the wealthiest 1%. Sadly "Fair" could be a can of worms. One thing I do believe is that there has got to be an easier streamlined way to pay taxes. If all you are looking for with a fair tax is lower taxes I don't think that will happen.

Fly, paying "the same %" is the key for the smallest incomes to the largest with No loopholes.

afs, "most poor people wish they had your problems" came from me. So where did I say, "I deserve a part of your effort"? I payed my way and "I did it my way". You should be glad you can afford to send your children to college which I applaud. I have 2 grandkids I want to help get a college education. "What gives someone else the right to my money"? Good point I say that about subsidizing Big oil, European and Asian defenses too. You think I will get my money back?

mud, giving to the needy is a good thing. For me all charities take a back seat to my son and his family. I am the Bank of Dad where no unrealistic loan is ever denied with payments that go from 0 to whatever you can afford.

Giving to any charity is a gift from the heart. It's your heart so give what you feel is right from your heart.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:12,380
Points:1,616,940
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 11:52:12 AM

AC: "And I don't understand Marty's mentality (and Obama's) who are saying "you didn't earn that", or "you didn't build that"."


That's called the politics of envy and jealousy, and it's one of the stock trades of the left. In order to have victims, which are the left's voters, you have to have perps. The wealthy (except for the Hollywood types of course), serve the same propaganda purpose for the left and the democrat party as did the Jews for the Nazis.


mudtoe


[Edited by: mudtoe at 2/10/2013 11:53:28 AM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

Posts:29,021
Points:3,206,760
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 11:16:37 AM

AFSNCO said: "Um, it was MY MONEY in the first place so I am not asking for anything extra. I am asking for MY MONEY back. I earned that money, nobody else."

Marty said: "Repeating... the ultimate hypocrisy. You talk the talk, but you won't walk the walk."

--when I was in college about 100 years ago, what we learned in Econ class was that if the US would tax everyone at 12 - 14% flat rate, we could balance the budget and run a surplus. IT seems to me that income tax rates beyond, say 20% are grossly unfair, in light of the numbers. And I don't understand Marty's mentality (and Obama's) who are saying "you didn't earn that", or "you didn't build that".

SMH..
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:4,489
Points:134,850
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 10:24:26 AM

I never understood the silly negative tax rate until I was unemployed in 2006. We got a tax refund of more back than we paid in! How did redistribution ever get written into the tax code?

I don't care who you are, you live in this great Nation, you enjoy its security and infrastructure -- you contribute a tax if you earn a wage of any sort.

How about HSA's? If you don't use all of it by the end of the year, the government confiscates un-used funds? What moron wrote that?

No carve outs or breaks for anyone. What did you earn last year? Pay 20%. Minimum wage to Billionaires - simple. Capital gains at 15% just allowed every hedge fund manager and CEO to pay themselves "dividends" instead of salary -- an unintended consequence nobody in DC thought out well (including Republicans).

Count on Democrats to make the tax code worse the next 4 years -- no fixes coming, they are too focused on the 2014 and 2016 campaign
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,296
Points:39,040
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 8:40:39 AM

We actually hear more poor and low income people complaining about the unfair system.

Many of the singles and childless couples are furious when they see singles and couples with children that can't/won't support them getting $X,000 tax credits/refunds, subsidized housing and numerous other welfare benefits they don't qualify for.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,296
Points:39,040
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 8:32:25 AM

"Mark, my sister went to SUNY Buffalo for dental school and she bought a house up there in Buffalo to get in-state tuition. But she could not wait to get out of NY. The taxes are a nightmare up there. I love NY...I love to fish in NY. I could never live there because of their tax laws though."

On a positive note, taxes have limited our competition. Much of the money I've made has been form buying, renting, or flipping tax seizure properties, or distressed sale properties due to high property taxes.

I won't buy most single family homes in the high tax regions, but I'll buy 3-plus unit multi-family homes as the taxes are paid with rental money, plus divided between numerous tenants.

We've shifted from a homeowner culture to a rental culture, so demand for quality rentals is outstanding.

We have so many welfare recipients, disabled, seniors and unemployable in many regions that there are plenty of jobs.

Many people can't or won't perform hard labor, skilled labor or get their hands dirty, so there's plenty of work.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

Posts:2,296
Points:39,040
Joined:Feb 2008
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 8:15:14 AM

Like mudtoe, I stopped donating to charities. I'm giving more than enough in the forms of income, property and sales taxes.

I currently donate to a select few that are deserving of help in the form of money, transportation assistance, guidance, work search, professional services etc.

I generally give to people that fall between the cracks that don't qualify for credits, subsidies, and numerous welfare benefits - usually singles and childless couples.

I have a strict qualification and culling process, plus rewards based on achievement. If recipients don't seriously look for work, quit jobs, or get fired from jobs I cut them off.

Most recipients don't make it past the work search stage.
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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

Posts:15,083
Points:3,312,620
Joined:Jun 2004
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 5:11:14 AM

what took you so long?
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:71,379
Points:2,766,170
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 1:03:56 AM

"...SOMEONE IS TRYING TO BETTER THEMSELVES AND NEEDS FINANCIAL HELP DOING IT!"

Logic ===> FAIL !!!

↓ ↓ ↓
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

Posts:887
Points:12,080
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Feb 9, 2013 4:11:28 PM

MY MONEY MY MONEY WAHHHHHHHH

the way you make it sound is that everyone that makes less money than you is a lazy drug addict cashing their gubament check. The people getting that tax break make so little that without it it would be difficult for them to attend college. I feel absolutly no pity for you. Feel fortunate that you make enough to cover those costs. Not everyone is so fortunate.

And CERTINATAINLY DONT GET CRANKY BECAUSE SOMEONE IS TRYING TO BETTER THEMSELVES AND NEEDS FINANCIAL HELP DOING IT!

tldr: dont be a jack---
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