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Author Topic: Alledged COP killer's manifesto - holy hannah, this guy puts it out there Back to Topics
jdhelm

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2013 9:38:05 AM

alledged COP killer's manifesto - yikes

I won't even attempt to post key points that he listed, nor any part of it, as it does contain some tough language and tons of hatred.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 12:20:05 AM

"The cops made him do it."


Yeah, you totally missed the point. Regardless, none of the other folks who have been victimized by the LAPD took Dorner's route. Indeed, unlike Dorner, they chose to sue the LAPD via the legal process and won, and were awarded millions in settlements and/or judgments. ONLY Dorner chose killing, so ONLY Dorner is responsible for choosing that route. Interesting how you make that into "the cops made him do it" when I never said or implied that.






"Even though I think if you look back I was the first one that brought up that what they did to him looked a little fishy? FYI...still doesn't excuse what he did."

Amen brother, on that we can agree...
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:58:55 PM

"Well, in this thread, you dismissed out of hand that Dorner's contentions about the LAPD had no merits and were simply the rantings of a madman; despite the fact that those same assertions have been made by many others, several of whom have successfully sued the LAPD and won millions of dollars for proving the same allegations..."

Even though I think if you look back I was the first one that brought up that what they did to him looked a little fishy? FYI...still doesn't excuse what he did.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 8:09:13 PM


I see...

The cops made him do it.

Lovely.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:56:23 PM

"He chose to make himself known by snuffing out the lives of other human beings."




"If you give credence to his complaints, you justify his methods, and by so doing, you are encouraging the next disgruntled killer-in-wait to express him/herself in similar fashion."

No, I justify nothing.

I say he had valid points but chose the wrong path to go about resolving them.

When you dismiss valid points because of Dorner, then YOU encourage the next abusive cop to continue abusing citizens and empower him to keep acting without fear of reprisal and you also tell the next biased BOR to continue colluding with each other to maintain the status quo and protect bad officers.

There is more than one way to look at things.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:36:42 PM


No, I can hear that point and have NEVER defended police abuse, so you must be referring to someone else.

I am speaking specifically, focus now, about legitimizing Dorner's complaints.

Had he simply posted the manifesto, sans threats, online or in a youtube video that went viral, I would've been intrigued and likely sympathized with him.

He chose to make himself known by snuffing out the lives of other human beings. If you give credence to his complaints, you justify his methods, and by so doing, you are encouraging the next disgruntled killer-in-wait to express him/herself in similar fashion.

There is NO OTHER POINT to be made.

Stop encouraging would-be homicidal freaks. Whatever their "color" happens to be.

-=-=
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:23:13 PM

"I think you miss the point."


I think you do my friend.

The REAL problem is that we as a society are too quick to dismiss police abuses, primarily because its not happening to us (its only .16%, so its not so bad as you make it) and secondarily, too many hold deep rooted prejudices and biases that rationalize that the victim somehow deserved the abuse (blacks hate the cops, and if they cooperated with the cops then they would not be victimized by them).

When we can, as a nation, have a zero tolerance of police abuses, then and only then will you see the abuses begin to stop.

But as long as a police officer can drop kick a woman in the head (while she's sitting down handcuffed) and receive no jail time and keep his job (good ol' police unions fighting for his rights), then the police abuses will continue all across the country; REGARDLESS of whether there are Dorners or not...
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:06:05 PM

"Who cares what HE (Dorner) had to say."

I think many people care; even the top brass of the LAPD care, because they are now trying to discredit everything he said, despite the fact that the history doesn't jive with dismissing everything he said; because many people have said it and have been able to prove it in judgments and settlements against the LAPD.



"Do we need more Dorners?"

No, what we need are more honest cops and less abusive cops who get away with their abuses.






"Is the solution to legal inaction to rise up as one body against the LAPD until they know you mean "business"?"

Change won't happen until people stop dismissing the abuses simply as the imaginations of blacks and other stupid things like that.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 5:41:56 PM


I think you miss the point.

Who cares what HE (Dorner) had to say.

Do we need more Dorners? Is the solution to legal inaction to rise up as one body against the LAPD until they know you mean "business"?

I think it's best to continue down more legal pathways, even it that means protests or whatever. I know, I know...protest = riot in LA but that's just the culture.

=-=-
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:58:41 PM

"Then there really was no reason to even cover Dorner's complaints because they are already being dealt with in a proper manner."


Well, if they continue being sued over the same charges of abuse and cronyism, and they keep losing cases and settling cases before losing them, then they're really not dealing with the complaints because they're not fixing the problem.







"As long as he is not around any longer, who cares?"

I think those being victimized by the LAPD care a great deal. Like the nurse body slammed by two LAPD cops in the valley, cops who had a subsequent impromptu celebration after that fact (all caught on parking lot video, thankfully). Yeah, I'm sure she and many other people care.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:51:32 PM


Great.

Then there really was no reason to even cover Dorner's complaints because they are already being dealt with in a proper manner.

Bringing attention to his LAPD gripes is as valuable as pointing out his support for Obama and everything else important to the Left.

As long as he is not around any longer, who cares?

=-=-
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:30:40 PM

""What being a killer "means" is that he has lost credibility with his hearers.""

And as I have stated, it doesn't mean what he said was untrue.







"Perhaps a more reasonable liberal in LA (other than the murderous and now post mortem Dorner) will step up with legal representation and take the LAPD to task."


Um, as I pointed out in a prior post, many people are doing that and being awarded millions in damages from settlements and judgments against the LAPD.





"Class action even. Maybe you will be able to participate as well."

I don't need to do that. Not to mention, usually such cases do not open themselves up to class actions (well except for the LAPD's "mayday melee" which resulted in numerous lawsuits being combined and millions of dollars paid out to victims).



"Or perhaps it's not worth it."

Its not worth it to the City of Los Angeles, which has paid millions of dollars to settle these cases and pay the awarded judgments.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:06:05 PM


"...in this thread, you dismissed out of hand that Dorner's contentions about the LAPD had no merits and were simply the rantings of a madman; despite the fact that those same assertions have been made by many others, several of whom have successfully sued the LAPD and won millions of dollars for proving the same allegations...But those facts were all dismissed by the usual "black people have issues with the police and chips on their shoulders, etc., etc."

As I wrote early on in response to similar comments by BGT:

BGT - "Does being a killer means he's not telling the truth about what the LAPD did to him; even though its been shown by another review of the evidence that there is a factual basis to what he alleges???"

xrdc - "What being a killer "means" is that he has lost credibility with his hearers."

"Life is not fair. How we respond to the challenges of life will determine what kind of person we are. We teach that to children so they don't turn "Dorner" on society when the bubble bursts one day."

"When grown, trained, and armed men forget that childhood lesson, we all suffer."

"Giving a person like Dorner (especially having such an audience) the time of day to justify himself and then even backing his grievances will result in one thing only. More of the same."

"There is a reason why hostage-takers and terrorists are generally NOT bargained with."

"Precedent."

"Why does the cop-hating left not understand that? And to think that they are the ones with the attorneys at their disposal."

"The fools we all suffer."

=-=-=-

Perhaps a more reasonable liberal in LA (other than the murderous and now post mortem Dorner) will step up with legal representation and take the LAPD to task. Class action even. Maybe you will be able to participate as well.

Or perhaps it's not worth it.

=-=-
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 2:22:09 PM

"Saying we do not acknowledge this or that and that we support racism because we did not point it out."


Well, in this thread, you dismissed out of hand that Dorner's contentions about the LAPD had no merits and were simply the rantings of a madman; despite the fact that those same assertions have been made by many others, several of whom have successfully sued the LAPD and won millions of dollars for proving the same allegations...

But those facts were all dismissed by the usual "black people have issues with the police and chips on their shoulders, etc., etc.

Even though many of the people winning lawsuits against the LAPD for their abuse and systemic problems were of other races, including whites.

Whatever.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 2:01:40 PM

"You might want to check that mirror before correcting me about what you do yourself."

I only do it to you so you can see how ridiculous your arguments are. Saying we do not acknowledge this or that and that we support racism because we did not point it out.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 12:21:57 PM

Actually, what she said was "She hasn't seen it".

That's a WORLD of difference than saying it doesn't exist. I ride the train with officers and detectives at the LAPD who says it DOES exist and they've seen it.

C'mon man, there are people posting here who say they don't see things right in front of their faces!
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 11:40:29 AM

I was listening to a press conference yesterday with a black female LAPD sergeant, RNorm. She said there is not.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 11:37:44 AM

"Are you saying there is not a culture of distrust of police in the black community?"


Are you saying that there have not been numerous instances of police abusing people in the black community, among others? And the distrust of police is just made up for no reason?
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teacher_tim
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 8:47:27 AM

""He hates cops and all blacks hate cops."

That is just DUMB."

It sure is, but then why do so many city police departments have a problem getting witnesses and statements from witnesses in black neighborhoods? Are you saying there is not a culture of distrust of police in the black community?

Maybe not 100%, but like 98%.

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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 1:11:19 AM

"That is your typical response to anything you disagree with."


Anything, you say???

You might want to check that mirror before correcting me about what you do yourself.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 11:09:50 PM

"Hello Mr. Kettle, or is it Mr. Pot?"

Exactly....that is my point and perhaps down the road you will stop using "everyone" and "alway" in your accusations. That is your typical response to anything you disagree with.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 7:37:25 PM

"Sure about that?"

Um, ok, lets correct that:

In NEARLY every story (maybe 98%) I've posted about Cops, it was a story proving their guilt in breaking the law; the very laws they are supposed to uphold.

Thank you for that correction. However, my point still remains the same:

What I find amazing is the lengths that people go to defend bad cops, even on here: "they have a hard job"; "you don't know what its like", etc.

If the job is so hard that you have to break the law to enforce it, then perhaps that person should not be a cop.

That isn't hatred, just common sense.

But leave it to the usual suspects to take common sense and make it into

"He hates cops and all blacks hate cops."

That is just DUMB.

[Edited by: RNorm at 2/19/2013 7:42:16 PM EST]
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 7:24:12 PM


"...in every story I've posted about Cops, it was a story proving their guilt in breaking the law; the very laws they are supposed to uphold." -RNorm

Sure about that?

How does a handcuffed man in the back of a police car shoot himself in the head? FBI investigating

And who could forget this fun thread:

Obama Says Police Acted 'Stupidly' in Harvard Professor's Arrest

-=-=
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 5:00:38 PM

"Allegedly; this charge was not proven and it came the day after Dorner had been given a bad report and two weeks after the alleged kicking incident.

All we have to substantiate the charge is the word of an obviously insane individual.

But as long as it is against the LAPD you will go with the word of the insane person."



Um, nothing "alleged" here (which I posted once before, but of course you blew off because it was such a small percentage):

"A Rhode Island police officer that kicked a woman in the head has been sentenced to probation, and no jail time was deemed necessary.

This conviction is only the latest in violent charges against Officer Krawetz. He was arrested twice in 2001 for altercations on the job and charged with assault, but was allowed to remain an officer despite many complaints from local residents concerned about his conduct.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 4:50:53 PM

"There he goes with the over-generalization again...typical. "


Over-generalizations?

Hello Mr. Kettle, or is it Mr. Pot?
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 3:59:23 PM

"You all were saying there is no racism in the tea party and we pointed out the racist signs at numerous tea party rallies that people just ignored because as long as it was anti-Obama, it was alright, even if it was racist."

There he goes with the over-generalization again...typical. Nobody said there was NO RACISM in the Tea Party but that it was extremely limited. You were the one that said if we did not condemn it we must support it. You have used that tactic on many different occassions and you just hate when we use something similar on you. Don't worry...I file those away just to hit you with your own tactic and you don't seem to like it.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 3:52:19 PM


RNorm, "And the case with the cop that kicked the lady to the head while handcuffed"

Allegedly; this charge was not proven and it came the day after Dorner had been given a bad report and two weeks after the alleged kicking incident.

All we have to substantiate the charge is the word of an obviously insane individual.

But as long as it is against the LAPD you will go with the word of the insane person.

No surprise there.

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 3:46:19 PM

"That was certainly the case with Dorner."


And the case with the cop that kicked the lady to the head while handcuffed.

And the case with the cops that body slammed the woman to the ground and then congratulated each other for doing so.

And the case with the cops who put innocent people in jail with falsified testimony.

And the case with cops who take drug money in evidence to keep for themselves...

But yet you say, its so small of a percentage, it doesn't matter.....

Right.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 3:37:47 PM


RNorm, "If the job is so hard that you have to break the law to enforce it, then perhaps that person should not be a cop"

That was certainly the case with Dorner.

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:49:11 PM

"I've never gotten the impression that RNorm "hated" cops, but I have never seen him give them the benefit of the doubt on any story posted here."


Again, in every story I've posted about Cops, it was a story proving their guilt in breaking the law; the very laws they are supposed to uphold.

What I find amazing is the lengths that people go to defend bad cops, even on here: "they have a hard job"; "you don't know what its like", etc.

If the job is so hard that you have to break the law to enforce it, then perhaps that person should not be a cop.

That isn't hatred, just common sense.

But leave it to the usual suspects to take common sense and make it into

"He hates cops and all blacks hate cops."

That is just DUMB.

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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:30:29 PM


I've never gotten the impression that RNorm "hated" cops, but I have never seen him give them the benefit of the doubt on any story posted here.

Call that a built-in or self-imposed distrust or whatever.

Hatred is harder to prove.
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RNorm
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:25:18 PM

"Aren't you the one that, when talking about the few signs at a Tea Party rally said that because none of us pointed them out and said how bad they were that we were supporting racism."


Um, get your facts straight. You all were saying there is no racism in the tea party and we pointed out the racist signs at numerous tea party rallies that people just ignored because as long as it was anti-Obama, it was alright, even if it was racist.

Then you and the rest went for a full-throated defense of the tea party; even if they were ignoring that racist signage..

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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:22:10 PM

"Using your reasoning, then I could say about you and others around here, that you must hate blacks (because you don't post anything positive about them), poor people (ditto); and a whole host of other subgroups in our society..."

You have...so turn-about is fair play!
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 1:21:02 PM

"So, in your mind, if I don't post something positive (or frequently enough for your approval), than that equates to hating the police?"

Oh don't you just hate when people use your own logic against you? Aren't you the one that used to post all the time that if people do not condemn things that politicians say...well...Republican politicians and conservatives only...that they must agree with what they say? Aren't you the one that, when talking about the few signs at a Tea Party rally said that because none of us pointed them out and said how bad they were that we were supporting racism. Hey kettle...meet pot!

[Edited by: AFSNCO at 2/19/2013 1:21:14 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 12:40:16 PM

AF I have seen him post postitive stuff about cops - He is positive they are corrupt and are not to be trusted. He is positive that if only the cos would be perfect angels all the problems would be solved.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 12:33:03 PM

"RNorm...have you ever posted anything postive about the police?"


So, in your mind, if I don't post something positive (or frequently enough for your approval), than that equates to hating the police?

Dude, listen to what you're saying.

Using your reasoning, then I could say about you and others around here, that you must hate blacks (because you don't post anything positive about them), poor people (ditto); and a whole host of other subgroups in our society...

That is just DUMB.

Like I said, you're posting in ignorance and now doubling down on it.

To each their own...
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 11:54:25 AM

RNorm...have you ever posted anything postive about the police? Yeah...what I thought!
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 11:37:21 AM

"It is because of the attitude you display toward the police that helps that problem because the whenever the police deal with a black suspected criminal they expect the entire community to have your same attitude and be hostile."


LOL, how would you know what my attitude is towards the police because I have an issue with corrupt cops?

Again, you speak in ignorance because you have no idea what you're talking about.

PS: Not liking corruption does NOT equate to assuming everyone is corrupt. Too bad you can't comprehend that; but again, no surprise there.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 11:20:35 AM

"And you are the one that brought race into it by saying the blacks are the ones that face the brunt of police brutality."


Actually, race was brought into this conversation LONG BEFORE I said that. In fact, the post I was responding to had brought race into the conversation.

But of course, you'll NEVER admit that it was your pal who brought race into the conversation (like he always does).

That's the thing about you conservatives, you always moan and whine about people playing the race card, but are usually the ones making race the issue.

No surprise there.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 11:16:42 AM

I believe I read that 75 percent of gun violence in this country involves an African-American shooter and an African-American victim. Now considering that African-Americans make up about 13% of the population, that's absolutely stunning! Since the numbers are so similar, I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that 72% of African-American children are raised in a household without a father?


mudtoe
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 10:07:50 AM

"Wow, and all this time I thought the OP said the issue was about Christopher Dorner and his beef with the LAPD."

And you are the one that brought race into it by saying the blacks are the ones that face the brunt of police brutality. It is because of the attitude you display toward the police that helps that problem because the whenever the police deal with a black suspected criminal they expect the entire community to have your same attitude and be hostile.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 9:41:17 AM


Panama19 - "Sounds to me like black attitudes are right on target in this discussion."

RNorm, "Yes, that seems to find its way into just about every discussion you're involved in. No surprise there"

The pathologies of the inner-city cause problems in many areas of our culture, so this is no surprise.

Your covering for the ills in the black community is not unlike your charges of police covering for their own members' misdeeds.

Could this be more projection on your part?

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 7:25:01 AM

"Wasn't Dorner a black that thought the cops were all wrong too? At least enough so to try to kill as many of them as possible."


And in response to Dorner, didn't the LAPD nearly execute two women, without identifying themselves, showing that the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality still lives amongst their ranks?

Sounds to me that the continuing problems with the LAPD (no matter how much you try to justify and marginalize them) are right on target in this discussion.






"Sounds to me like black attitudes are right on target in this discussion."

Yes, that seems to find its way into just about every discussion you're involved in. No surprise there.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2013 12:48:56 AM


RNorm, "Thanks once again for letting us know that regardless of the thread or topic, the issue is the black community, as always"

Wasn't Dorner a black that thought the cops were all wrong too? At least enough so to try to kill as many of them as possible.

Sounds to me like black attitudes are right on target in this discussion.

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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:29:12 PM

"The issue is that the black community itself will never admit its own problems because in reality they would rather blame whites or the cops for their problems."


Wow, and all this time I thought the OP said the issue was about Christopher Dorner and his beef with the LAPD.

Thanks once again for letting us know that regardless of the thread or topic, the issue is the black community, as always.

[Edited by: RNorm at 2/18/2013 12:35:06 PM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:22:35 PM

I have a good friend who was on the "list", though not directly. He did tell me that he was looking over his shoulder. He also told me that when he met Dorner, he got a "vibe" that there was obviously something wrong with him.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:09:08 PM


"Does any of this sound like some of those posting here?"

The manifesto itself sounds uncannily like many on these boards.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 11:46:37 AM

"Perhaps if you opened your eyes some day you can make a difference instead of an excuse."


LOL, I'm actually making a difference in the lives of very many people, INCLUDING those in the black community.

So, once again, you speak in ignorance; not that I'm surprised or anything.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

Posts:18,750
Points:1,689,755
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 11:29:19 AM

Oh yes RNorm...I have said all the problems in our country are because of the black community. The issue is that the black community itself will never admit its own problems because in reality they would rather blame whites or the cops for their problems. It is well documented and the stats have already been posted here but you continue to ignore them. Perhaps if you opened your eyes some day you can make a difference instead of an excuse.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

Posts:51,477
Points:1,129,135
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Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 10:43:08 AM

"Who said anyone has tried?"


Indeed, no one has tried to blame the problem on Bush, or Republicans or anyone else; but that won't stop people from trying to put that into other people's mouths either.

For that matter, no one has tried to justify anything Dorner has done, but that doesn't stop people from trying to put that in other people's mouths either.
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RNorm
Champion Author San Bernardino

Posts:51,477
Points:1,129,135
Joined:Mar 2005
Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 10:39:25 AM

'Interesting that you will never admit there is a criminal problem within the black community that is allowed to grow by your own hatred toward police."


Did the black community cause the officer to kick the woman in the head while she was sitting down with her hands cuffed behind her back?

Did the black community cause that officer who was convicted of a crime to keep his job?

Did the black community cause officers to throwdown on another woman after a traffic stop?

Or maybe you can't admit that there are bad cops all over the place so you do the predictable "lets turn it into its all the black community's fault" thread?

Y'all need some new material because what you're doing is predictable and stale.






"Nobody has ever said there wasn't a problem with Catholic Church and their handling of the sex abuse cases....now have they? "

Oh, people denied that problem for a long time too...But as I suspected, when you take an example of a systemic problem that you can't twist into "its all the black community's fault" or "police do no wrong", then you can admit that it was indeed a systemic problem.

Thanks for proving my point. Now you can return to blaming everything else on the black community...
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