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Author Topic: Self defense with a gun - case 1 Back to Topics
jamofsocal

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Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 3:27:15 AM


Here is an example of a good guy with a guy stopping a bad guy with a gun. On school premises no less!!



Coach protects himself and students

Fox 2 has learned the 70 year old coach for the girl's basketball team was walking two students to their cars at the time of the attempted robbery. When one pulled a gun, the coach fired back, shooting both teens.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 12:23:24 AM

yup, that link worked - I have an aqauaintance in Des Moines, Iowa, who a some years ago had the same thing happen. He said he waited on the roof for 2 nights and finally the crooks came back and he confronted them and shot and killed one of them. He said he then had to watch out for the one who got away for years, always wondering if he would come back or to his home, he said he now wishes that he would have shot both.

I don't blame him.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 12:20:42 AM

>>>>For those of you who might in the future experience a break-in by an intruder . . . shoot to kill. Stay alive for you and your family. He is in the wrong, you are in the right.<<<<<

My father received his first of two purple hearts when he made the mistake of thinking that the Chinese solder he shot was down for the count. After that he always shot at least twice center mass. He told me if you shot you shoot to kill and you make sure you have done the job. A wounded enemy is even more dangerous because he has nothing left to lose and wants revenge.

All the warm fuzziest about not killing won’t do you or your widow a bit of good if it gets you killed.

Remember this. The thug that attacks you doesn’t care if you die. He just doesn’t want to go to jail for killing you because that will get him more time. But if he has to kill you to get away he will.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 11:30:30 PM

Jd - try this one - today hasnt been my day for posting links
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 8:46:23 PM

fly, i couldn't get your link to work.

-

2nd, stupid people like this home invader will never think twice, they are only takers, they've grown up in that atmosphere and have never had the disicpline to think or work or respect or be useful . . . you can't change dirt into gold and many people like these hoods will never change. they feel the haves owe them everything, unfortunately much of this owe me stuff is taught by the majority of the educators in high school and on thru college.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 6:26:29 PM

The moral is - dont break into a persons place of business attempting to rob it.
.
If this happens often enough maybe these people who want to steal might think twice.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 2:14:05 PM

. . . if I had a son . . . - bho

-

I75, the homeowner used the wrong kind of stun gun, it should have been a 45 acp 147 gr JHP

this stupid idiot will do the same thing again, and next time, perhaps he will meet the devil via 45 acp.

I know from experience that it can be and is extremely difficult to take a life with or without a weapon - however, I'm starting more and more to feel like that if idiots like this guy would break into my home, it's me/my family - or - him.

For those of you who might in the future experience a break-in by an intruder . . . shoot to kill. Stay alive for you and your family. He is in the wrong, you are in the right.

You cannot rely on the Police getting there in time, nor can you rely on the intruder to save your life or your family's lives. Shoot to kill him/them. Call 911, but don't wait for them, call 911 and let them know what's going on and that you have a weapon and you will shoot them. It's way the hell too late if and when the cops get there, and you or your family members are dead and he is gone. Shoot the sob.

hooah

[Edited by: jdhelm at 5/20/2013 2:17:13 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2013 1:06:17 PM

See the Face of Suspected Burglar After Homeowners Fought Back
Ouch!
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 8:34:48 AM

>>>After a string of burglaries at his Oroville store, a fed-up business owner fought back to catch the crooks.
Darin Fowler says he camped out at his business and confronted the burglar.
“This is my property; I’m going to defend it,” he said.<<<

Break-ins over the course of three months and the cops were unable to stop it. Tell me again what we are paying taxes for? That’s right we have to pay for wind mills, battery companies and electric car companies that will go bankrupt and be sold off to China leaving the tax payer with nothing to show for our money.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 3:21:27 PM

Woman killed by 4-year-old in Tennessee cookout


A pistol in the hands of a 4-year-old boy went off during a weekend cookout, killing the wife of a Tennessee sheriff's deputy who was showing his guns to a relative, state police said Monday.

No one saw the boy pick up the weapon before the shooting, which occurred Saturday night in Lebanon, east of Nashville, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Kristin Helm said. The single shot killed 47-year-old Josephine Fanning, the wife of Wilson County Sheriff's Deputy Daniel Fanning.



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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 3:14:55 PM

At least 14 people were injured during a mass stabbing at a local community college in the northwest Houston area Tuesday morning. It's a sad world we live in, but it just goes to show you that even without guns, people can still do horrible things to others. I just wish an armed security guard (or individual) had come upon the scene when it first started to unfold.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 2:53:36 PM

The good guys win another round
.
>>>After a string of burglaries at his Oroville store, a fed-up business owner fought back to catch the crooks.

Darin Fowler says he camped out at his business and confronted the burglar.



“This is my property; I’m going to defend it,” he said.<<<

The story ends with two perps in jail - good ending.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 1:48:39 PM

The early reports are a bit disjointed. Later reports make it sound like the man may have hit two of them or was shot in the arm himself. It’s still not clear and it probably never will be. Self-defense is well covered in the news for some reason.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 11:31:47 AM

Johnny - its a shame he only shot one of them.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 11:19:22 AM

A dark-colored pickup pulled up alongside Caballero, police said. One of the passengers got out, pulled a gun on the Caballero and demanded he hand over the bag.

As Caballero was about to hand it over, another suspect in the truck said, “Just go ahead and shoot him anyway.” Cabellero pulled his own gun and shot the suspect pointing the gun at him twice.
-
Thug Threatens man, Gets Shot
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:53:45 PM

If the intent of the bill in Colorado to ban CCW in college campuses is not to reduce violence, as the bill’s sponsors states. Her are her exact words. ““I make no assertion that this bill will either increase or reduce violent crime, that is not the premise of the bill.” What is its goal?HUH, GUN CONTROL, WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:18:14 PM

The NRA’s idea continues to work

4 April 2013 Spokane Washington

Police say an elderly woman grabbed a gun to protect herself when a man broke into her house early Wednesday in Spokane.
She fired a warning shot and was holding the man at gunpoint in her living room when police arrived.
KXLY reports the man tried to run away and fought with officers who subdued him with the help of a police dog.
The man also is suspected of breaking windows earlier at a nearby business.
Spokane woman holds intruder at gunpoint
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:10:23 PM

The NRA’s idea continues to work

3 April 2013 Oregon City Oregon.
*
The woman had gotten out of her car near 8th Street and JQ Adams Street just after 10 p.m. when a man approached from behind and dragged her backwards by her ponytail, said Oregon City Police Sgt. Matthew Paschall.
"He continued to assault her until she was able to defend herself by producing her legally-owned handgun," Paschall said. "The victim pointed her handgun at the male assailant and he fled on foot
-
I wonder what would have happened it she wasn’t armed?

[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 4/7/2013 12:11:55 PM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 7:42:45 PM

The NRA’s Idea does work.
Hot Sulphur Springs C.O. 2 April 2013

We have heard a lot about the killings of state court officials in two states. What we didn’t hear about was the Colorado Prosecutor who was able to defend herself in a mountain cabin.

The deputy district attorney made a 911 emergency call and reported that a man was at her door "behaving very erratically," police said.
The prosecutor then told dispatchers that the stranger forced his way into her home. An altercation ensued inside and shots were fired, leaving the unidentified man dead, police said.
A spokeswoman for one of the agencies investigating the incident told Reuters that the prosecutor and her husband, himself a sheriff's deputy, both fired at the intruder, but it is too early in the probe to know who fired the fatal shot.
-
Intruder shot dead at home of rural Colorado prosecutor
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"There are no apparent ties to recent shootings; however, investigators continue to pursue all possible leads and background information on this (dead) person," the bureau said in a written statement.

[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 4/6/2013 7:43:44 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 12:10:44 PM

I wonder when the panic buying of guns and ammo will slow down or stop. Them maybe the stores can restocks and the prices will return to normal.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 12:58:22 AM

Can't find any 9 mm ammo anywhere. Bare shelves.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 11:29:53 PM

btw, one wholesaler normally has in 9mm alone, 418 various semi auto models, and currently they only have available to sell, just 6 models, so the drought is still happening.
They also normally have 70 various 380 models that they sell, and right now, they have "zero" anything in 380 for sale.

in 45 acp, they usually carry 286 and only have 5 available.

in 40 S&W, they only have 4 models of 359.

So, the drought is still happening big time.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 11:11:06 PM

90 yet -

-

of all the guns I've been around and of all the situations (in the citizen sector/not military) I've yet to happen on a gun violence where legal people who own and or have a ccw, have demonstrated any gun violence.
I have seen criminal types show or demonstrate violence, most without guns, some with guns, but the problem was never because of a gun - it was because of the nature of the criminal intent.

I'm glad I have the right to bear arms and defend myself and others I care about, should the need happen. I would hope that congress and all those who serve 'we the people' in government, will at some point soon, realize that guns are not responsible for violence, nor are 'we the people' who are gun owners.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 10:58:04 PM

Im not 90 yet but if all else fails and one must defend themself --- at that time I want to inflict a maximum amount of 'violence' in the shortest possible time. I want the 'bad guy' dead as fast as possible with no risk to others.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 5:58:24 PM

“I'm not 90 yet, wont be for a long time.
We all have to do our part to prevent gun violence.”

Let me see if I understand your point. Do you consider the use of a gun to defend one’s self gun violence? Also I would like to know what a 90 year old person is supposed to do when their home is invaded. You may not be 90 but what about the tens of thousands of elderly who cannot defend themselves with brute force?


[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 3/11/2013 5:58:48 PM EST]
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 2:52:20 AM

Oilpan, you specified "gun violence". Those of us pro-Right advocate controlling "violence". The guns are not the problem.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 11:05:02 PM

"Can you imagine a 90 year old man trying to confront a 19 year old thug with an ax?"

I'm not 90 yet, wont be for a long time.
We all have to do our part to prevent gun violence.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 6:30:35 PM

“”””””The interesting thing about two of the stories that you listed johnnyg1200 is that the criminals crimes escalated from not including a gun to including one.””””””

I’m missing the point of your comment. In neither crime a gun was mentioned, except to say that a gun may and I stress the word may have changed the outcome. As for escalating, I don’t think things could have been much worse. In one case both victims died from the physical beating and the rape of the 85 year old grandmother in front of her husband. In the other all three women were raped one, the mother, strangled and the last two, 11 and 19, left in a burning house with the sole survivor left for dead after being severally beaten with a ball bat.

Explain how this could have been any worse for the victims or escalated.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 6:17:55 PM


“””Some times I hear one of those noises at night I grab the ax and leave the gun.
(note this is a real logging ax, sharper than most peoples kitchen knives)””””

Can you imagine a 90 year old man trying to confront a 19 year old thug with an ax? One of the anti-gun claims I hear is if you have a gun it could be taken away and used against you. Think about a 90 old man with an ax verses a 90 year old man with a gun. Who do you think is more likely to have the defensive weapon takeaway and used agents them? Even at 48 I don’t intend to let a home intruder get that close to me. Besides just the sound of a pump shot gun rack sliding is enough to cause even the most hardened thug to soil himself, and hopefully leave.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 5:28:53 PM

"You left another possibility out."

I didn't forget other possibilities. I included "etc." To go through all of the different outCOmes COuld possibly take forever.

"I’m not saying a gun would have helped, but not having one made them defenseless."

With the many different possibilities that can arise, you can still be defenseless while having a gun.

The interesting thing about two of the stories that you listed johnnyg1200 is that the criminals crimes escalated from not including a gun to including one.

"How can people say that monsters do not exist? It was not enough for the perp to rob them, but he had to rape and torture them too.

Hoping that this does not happen to you is not a defensive plan. Yet, the anti-gunners refuse to accept this fact."

jamofsocal, hoping this doesn't happen isn't a defensive plan; however, expecting that it will is neither an action or defensive plan because of the many factors that must be COnsidered. It is not to say that you should not plan but just because you plan doesn't mean it will happen as you anticipate. As we COntinue to allude to, there are many possibilities that COuld result and we can only hope that outCOme is favorable to our predicament. The only thing that these stories that we read now do is prove that hindsight is a little bit clear as we know what happened to the victims. We still can't determine what would have happened if other factors are included. For instance, the Aurora, CO movie theater shooting was one of those events where you hear people talking about if I COuld have brought my gun in we COuld have taken him down; however, very few COnsider the potential results of multiple people shooting in multiple directions in that small space. We COuld only hope that one person COuld have stop the incident.
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 6:39:18 PM

I am going to assume worst scenario and assume that both women would have ended up beaten, tortured, raped, and murdered. Like this story that occurred years ago.

Jury orders death penalty in 1988 murder of pregnant O.C. woman

"A man serving a lengthy prison term in Michigan for rape should be put to death for assaulting and murdering a pregnant Costa Mesa woman in 1988, an Orange County jury has ordered.

Jason Balcom, 42, was convicted last March of one felony count of murder with special circumstances connected to the sexual assault of the 22-year-old woman, according to a statement from the Orange County district attorney's office."



[Edited by: jamofsocal at 3/2/2013 6:40:22 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 3:02:18 PM

"I have seen the idea that if someone breaks into your house you should"

Some times I hear one of those noises at night I grab the ax and leave the gun.
(note this is a real logging ax, sharper than most peoples kitchen knives)
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 1, 2013 8:13:51 PM

I have seen the idea that if someone breaks into your house you should 1. Run out a back door. 2. Hide in a closet. 3. Call the police. 4. Four cooperate and “hope” you don’t get hurt along with other pacifist ideas.

How would this have turned out if a gun was not in the house??
"The fear in her face and the thought of losing her was scarier than the thought of shooting him," said Keeney.
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 28, 2013 3:27:10 PM

Yes, I read about this case a few months ago.

How can people say that monsters do not exist? It was not enough for the perp to rob them, but he had to rape and torture them too.

Hoping that this does not happen to you is not a defensive plan. Yet, the anti-gunners refuse to accept this fact.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 2:12:24 PM

Here is another one that got almost no national coverage.
I will tell this one from the information I have learned through different sources.

Bob Strait served in the 101st Airborne division and was part of the D-Day invasion. For those of you that isn’t familiar with history every paratrooper volunteers for that duty and the risk that goes with it. If the invasion had failed and the allies had been pushed back into the ocean every paratrooper and member of the glider corps would have been captured or killed, there was no way out for them except victory. He received a bronze star but refused the purple hart saying his injuries weren’t severe enough. To bad Gun Boat Kerry didn’t have this much class. After the war Bob refused any and all veterans aid say he just was doing his job like everyone else.

Nancy Strait grew up in a log cabin with no running water and moved to Tulsa to work during the war.

When Bob came home from the war he met Nancy and they were and were married just three weeks later on Friday the 13th 1946. Nancy was a homemaker who made quilts and homemade jellies. Bob was a welder by trade and did woodworking for a hobby. The two did everything together; grocery shopping, doctor's visits, you name it. They had six
children and eighteen grand children.

In March of 2012 after 65 years of marriage and at the age of 90 and 85 respectively both Bob and Nancy came down with the flue and food poisoning. The couples children had convinced there parents to move into an assisted living facility.

They never got the chance because the day after they made the decision to move a nineteen year old out on parole broke into their home and robbed them.. Unfortunately robbery was not enough for this scum. He beat Bob breaking his jaw and cracking several ribs then shot him in the face with a pellet gun. He also went on to beat and rape the 85 year old grandmother in front of her husband.

Nancy died the next day an area hospital. Bob died weeks later. His kids say he died because he had lost his will to live.
-
Snopes
-Being a paratrooper this hit me harder than most of these stories.



[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 2/27/2013 2:16:52 PM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 1:06:20 PM

I learned about the Newsome/Christian murders a few months ago. Neither of these attacks got much national press coverage.
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 11:43:32 AM

johnnyg1200, you beat me to the punch buddy!! I was going to use the exact same story! Great minds think alike.

The story you used is a pinnacle example of the wishful thinking that anti-gunners have regarding crime. They don't think it will happen to them and/or they don't think it will be that bad.

The Petit Family Murder is the perfect example of how horrible a crime can be. No mercy or compassion from the criminals. Just a horrific death of a beautiful loving family that by all accounts was active in their community doing charity work. They were tortured, raped and murdered(burned alive) while the monsters live in prison. How is that justice?

It is a mistake for anyone to think that they would be the exception to the crime and walk away from it. One should always assume the worst case scenario as in the case of this murder.

As much details as there is of the case, none of the reports ever mentioned if the family had a gun or if they had any firearm training. That should be a clue for the rest of us. While the two thugs were beating on the father, anyone one of the other members of the family could have retrieved a gun, including the 11 year old girl. Unfortunately, one would assume that they never developed a defensive plan because they never thought they would need one.

Are you familiar with the Newsome/Christian murder or the murder of Merideth Emerson? Two more examples of how bad bad can be.


[Edited by: jamofsocal at 2/27/2013 11:50:19 AM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 9:50:46 PM

Eldiablopoco;
“”””””’’’’’’’’’’’Don't limit yourself to two ways. There are many outcomes that could arise such as:

The criminals realize that someone was home and leave.
The criminals realize that attacking the girl is not worth the sentence associated with that type of crime.
They break-in, take what they want and leave the girl tied up in a closet.
They break-in, take what they want and the girl escapes through an alternate exit.
They break-in, the girl hides and the police arrive to catch the criminals.””””””””””””

You left another possibility out.
Here is an example from 2007
-
Ghastly Details In Conn. Home Invasion
-
Be sure to read the details. The cops were outside as part of this nightmare unfolded.

If you really want to read the details here is a full account.
-
A Connecticut Nightmare
-
I’m not saying a gun would have helped, but not having one made them defenseless.

[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 2/26/2013 9:53:15 PM EST]
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 9:02:24 PM

ummm poco, this was at a school, not at a home

etc. etc.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 8:58:17 PM

This story could go two ways:

1) No one has a gun. Two men attack an 18 year old mother.

2) Mother has a gun. Two men attack the mother with a knife.

Don't limit yourself to two ways. There are many outcomes that could arise such as:

The criminals realize that someone was home and leave.
The criminals realize that attacking the girl is not worth the sentence associated with that type of crime.
They break-in, take what they want and leave the girl tied up in a closet.
They break-in, take what they want and the girl escapes through an alternate exit.
They break-in, the girl hides and the police arrive to catch the criminals.

etc.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 12:26:16 PM

hooah
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 12:04:54 PM

Thanks jdhelm!!
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 9:45:28 AM

10 myths about gun control
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 1:47:36 PM

eldiablopoco, you are correct. The main focus for many gun owners is self defense for a simple reason. We want to be protected.

Here is a case of a young 18 year old new mother/widow being attacked by two men armed with a crow bar and knife.

This story could go two ways:

1) No one has a gun. Two men attack an 18 year old mother.

2) Mother has a gun. Two men attack the mother with a knife.

[L=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2082210/text deleted calls 911[/L]

"On Christmas Day, 18-year-old Sarah McKinley lost her husband to lung cancer, leaving her the sole caregiver to their three-month-old son.

On New Year's Eve, the Oklahoma mother proved she was anything but defenceless after she shot and killed an intruder breaking into her home.

Two men tried breaking into Ms McKinley's house, one armed with a 12-inch
hunting knife. While on the phone with 911, the young mother shot and killed one of the intruders with a 12-gauge shotgun after he passed the threshold."




If you cannot put these pieces together, then we cannot help you. But we have the Right to defend ourselves.

This why the NRA is interested in the Right to self defense.

Mother calls 911 for help



[Edited by: jamofsocal at 2/25/2013 1:49:43 PM EST]
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:31:16 AM

johnnyg1200, Wow, these politicians are out here arguing over legislation about gun ownership. The NRA is out here trying to justify why every law bidding citizen needs a gun and their talking points rarely reference hunting, sports shooting, to look at the pretty details, and it being a collectors item. Now, unless you are watching MSNBC, Fox News says it because the criminals have guns. So here is your perpetual cycle, the citizens are arming themselves to defend themselves and their property, the criminals are arming themselves to make it easier to kill who they don't like and take someone's property. So if you can't logically work with that and put two and two together, then I can't help you.

But I can tell you that if the criminals aren't arming themselves than there is no need for the citizens to be arming themselves and I guess the anti-gun crowd makes a good point.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 12:00:25 AM

We are able to justify a lot of shootings now! However, few consider that as the number of armed citizens increases, the number of armed criminals increases too.

What you call the ability to “Justify a lot of shootings now”” is what I call defending one’s self and property. How often do the cops show up to stop a crime? They are the third party to show up. Primarily they investigate after the fact. That is not a shot at the cops it’s just a fact if a cop is around the criminal is going to go someplace else to engage in his chosen profession.

As for you claim that an increase in the number of armed citizens results in an increase in the number of armed criminals, I would like to see a link to your source for that. Chicago has very restrictive gun laws and no concealed carry in Illinois. Illinois also has restrictive gun laws in general. We all know what the murder numbers are for Chicago.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 8:49:38 PM

hooah
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

Posts:1,039
Points:56,860
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 8:03:05 PM

oilpan4, don't move to pontiac, MI. Due to their budget failures, they have disbanned the police officers there. Due to MI, budget failures they have reduced the number of state police officers. Due to MI budget failures you can do approximately 85 to 90 mphs from Detroit to Lansing to Grand Rapids. The only crime that is important is the one that involves the taking or potential taking of a life using a gun!

[Edited by: eldiablopoco at 2/20/2013 8:04:06 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Points:322,590
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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 7:23:37 PM

If the police would enforce the laws we already have then there would not be an increasing number of criminals carrying guns.

Lets take for example places that we know what percentage of the population has a COncealed carry permit. CO and VA both have about 4% to 5%, permit holders. Many police I know believe in the 1% rule, where only about 1% to 2% of the population are really criminally active. Its safe to say not all of those 1% to 2% carry guns.
Looks like criminals are out numbers by COncealed weapons carriers by quite a bit and that doesn't even COunt people who open carry.
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 6:04:30 PM

Awesome research johnnyg1200!!!

Keep up the good work and spread the word.
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eldiablopoco
Champion Author Grand Rapids

Posts:1,039
Points:56,860
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Feb 20, 2013 3:01:11 AM

This is a great justification of why we need more guns. We are able to justify a lot of shootings now! However, few consider that as the number of armed citizens increases, the number of armed criminals increases too. Few even contemplate that as the citizens adapt that the criminals adapt too. There is two sides to a coin. The coach/retired officer in this video was lucky. Yes, I mean lucky. This man ran into two individuals, one being armed, whom allowed him to live allowing him to kill one and seriously injure the other. But remember criminals will adapt too and events like this will soon be a memory of the past. Say it with me, "I remember when you could be stuck up at gun point and you had a chance of coming out alive!"
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