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Author Topic: Do you agree with those that believe we should create a path to citizenship (amnesty) for ILLEGALS? Back to Topics
101Speedster

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Ventura

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 5:36:14 PM

Do you agree with those that believe the United States should create a path to citizenship (amnesty) for anyone in this world that has decided to break our laws, enter into our country (often ILLEGALLY), live here ILLEGALLY, and often work here ILLEGALLY? I left out vote ILLEGALLY and collect benefits that are supposed to be for United States citizens. Nor did I mention the number of ILLEGAL aliens that are locked up in our prisons and jails or the number of people that they have killed while here.

In 1986, amnesty was given to approximately 2 million ILLEGAL aliens. That deal invited another 11 million ILLEGALS into our country. No one knows for sure how many ILLEGALS are living in our country because many in our government do not want them counted and prevent us from doing so. Part of that 1986 amnesty deal included a provision that our borders had to be secured so that more ILLEGAL aliens would not enter our country. There was also supposed to be interior enforcement of our immigration laws. Neither one of those things has yet happened.

There are reasons why countries have immigration laws. Considering the fiscal cliffs that we are now facing in this country, we should not even be considering inviting more of the world's poor into this country.

Giving amnesty to those that have had no respect for the laws of this country would only be rewarding them for breaking our laws, putting them at the front of the line, and be a slap in the face to those people in this world that are trying to legally enter, live, and work in this country.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 8:51:19 AM

Great post, therder.

As for what is broken, our (government's) will to enforce existing law is what is broken. Laws exist to monitor border crossings, build a security fence, deport people who have been caught here illegally, and allow a specified number of immigrants each year. We also have laws that establish special cases of refugees, such as any person from Cuba and other peoples who are fleeing repression. Escaping poverty in another nation is not an automatic qualifier as a refugee. Claiming that you are afraid of gangs and thugs is just a ploy to play our system, and everyone knows it. The border patrol knows it, our higher ups in government know it, government officials in the source nations know it, the drug cartels and coyotes operating in the border areas know it, and our media knows it. I'm sick of everyone pretending that the problem is something other than what it is.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 4:31:55 PM

therder - "Pro-amnesty supporters always say in the media is that our immigration system is somehow “broken”."

Which is a distortion. The fact is that, while our immigration system needs some work, what's actually "broken" are all the places these people are running away from.
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 4:24:44 PM

owt:>>There is a path, there are many on it and it is the legal one. Others trying to jump in front of the line should be forbidden to do so. People doing it the legal way are probably more offended by the illegals trying to jump line. Send them to the rear to do it properly.
They were given amnesty with the intent to secure the border, they got amnesty and we got NO border security. They can say it is secure all day long but that doesn't make it so. if it is so secure, everyone that states that it is should be required to live there.<<

"Immigration reform" is just a euphemism for amnesty. It didn't work in 1986. It won't work now. This isn't the 1850s anymore: we have no railroads to build. We have no more lands to settle. We have no labor shortage--in fact we have MILLIONS of people out of work. We have immigration laws for very good reasons (not the least of which is to weed out criminals and people with communicable diseases), and let's be real: these aren't doctors or scientists sneaking over the border; these people are poor, uneducated, are a drain on our social programs. Pro-amnesty supporters always say in the media is that our immigration system is somehow “broken”. It’s not broken—our laws just aren’t being enforced. If it were broken, tens of millions of people would not have been able to immigrate legally over the decades. Millions of hard working immigrants have succeeded in becoming citizens the legal way. It’s not easy, and in no country in the world are citizenship badges handed out to people for merely crossing a border. Again, we, and every country in the world, have immigration laws for very good reasons. The pro-amnesty people don’t want our immigration laws “fixed”—they just want citizenship handed to them on a silver platter. They want to cut in line in front of millions of people who are following the rules and trying to become citizens legally. We also have historic precedent that takes the guesswork out of what will happen with “immigration reform”. Like the amnesty of 1986, we learned if you reward illegal behavior, you just get MORE illegal behavior. If we pass this new round of "immigration reform", we'll be having this discussion again in ten years when millions of more illegals have scurried over our border and dug in demanding THEIR amnesty (err excuse me, “immigration reform”).
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2014 7:14:59 AM

therder, "Children born in this country whose parents are illegal aliens should not be automatically granted citizenship. The citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was never about children of illegal aliens. It was about children of freed slaves."

I don't have a problem with those children being citizens. Their parents are still illegal aliens and must leave. They can choose to take their kids with them or leave them here with family members that are here legally.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 12:21:49 PM

The only path should be for the exit.
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owt
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 12:15:48 PM

There is a path, there are many on it and it is the legal one. Others trying to jump in front of the line should be forbidden to do so. People doing it the legal way are probably more offended by the illegals trying to jump line. Send them to the rear to do it properly.
They were given amnesty with the intent to secure the border, they got amnesty and we got NO border security. They can say it is secure all day long but that doesn't make it so. if it is so secure, everyone that states that it is should be required to live there.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 4:18:31 PM

Part of the problem is that, at the time the 14th was written, there was no such thing as being here illegally.

We need a law, court case, or constitutional amendment that declares that being here illegally means that you are NOT "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States for citizenship purposes.
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 8:29:33 AM

Children born in this country whose parents are illegal aliens should not be automatically granted citizenship. The citizenship clause in the 14th amendment was never about children of illegal aliens. It was about children of freed slaves.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jul 28, 2014 5:19:21 PM

Twenty-one years ago Harry Reid was against Illegal Immigration and Anchor Babies.

My, my, how times change........
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 9:48:56 AM

Why should they have ANY path to citizenship? They broke the law by coming here illegally, Come here legally, and you can have your path.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 9:39:55 AM

""Then we charge their country the costs to take care of them adn ship them back. ""

Fat Chance collecting on that debt...
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 6:26:30 PM

The only "path" we need is the path to send them back to the country where they are legal residents!

Then we charge their country the costs to take care of them adn ship them back.
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Nomofriggincube
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 6:19:22 PM

lets get everyone that is already here legally, jobs...then we can worry about any others
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 6:07:32 PM

The sad part is a lot of these illegals don't want to become American citizens. They just want to stay in America the way it is with the free hand outs.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 3:25:25 PM

I75at7AM - "From one of my favorite right-wing-nut-job blogs:"

And I tend to agree with them on this.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 11:20:50 AM

From one of my favorite right-wing-nut-job blogs:

Illegals have had it! 'Enough is enough!'

"...the DREAMers targeted his {Sen. Ted Cruz} office, along with those of other senators, while yelling, "Enough is enough!"

"Really? Just what is it that they’ve had enough of? Enough benefits from public programs paid for by American taxpayers? Enough amazing good fortune to live in the greatest nation on earth for so many years without being deported?"

"Excuse me illegal invaders. If I may just have a word: If you have had “enough,” then please, I beg of you, by all means, post haste, leave this dreadful land that so stresses your sensibilities and return to your native country of origin. America owes you nothing."

Ouch.
Lot's of sizzle on that steak.
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owt
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 10:55:38 AM

Fat NO, the only right they have it to apply for citizenship like all the other legals have. Do it the correct way. People say "we are a country of laws" so why do they not have to abide by the LAW as everyone else does? Bunch of BS.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jul 16, 2014 7:48:29 AM

I have said before.
The path to become a US citizen the legal way is highly expensive, extremely long & very difficult.
Amnesty...NO
BUT There should be a way to Legalize these Un-Citizens.

Get them the paperwork & start them on the path to become Legal US Citizens.
Paying a fine & paying back taxes for the time they were here illegally.
No free handouts from the government for at least 5 years.
Learning English.
Joining the military for minimum 6 years gets you fast tracked to become a citizen.

Just a few suggestions...add some more reasonable ones?
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 6:44:28 PM

I said no before but decided to give it some more thought. After reading more on the issue and carful consideration I have to say the answer is still no.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 5:03:15 PM

"That path HAS to start right BEHIND every single person who is applying to immigrate legally."

Agreed.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2014 4:11:20 PM

Path to citizenship = amnesty.

I do not believe in rewarding people for breaking the laws of the United States.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 21, 2014 2:54:10 PM

That path HAS to start right BEHIND every single person who is applying to immigrate legally. After that, they can go through the exact same criteria as those who are still in their home country. If their application is rejected, they must leave the U.S. within 30 days or face felony charges. Naturally, all this would be predicated on registration and fingerprinting for every illegal alien currently in this country by a date within six months of the new law taking effect. After that time, anyone found in the U.S. unregistered will be treated as a felon and immediately arrested and deported. They also would be ineligible to ever apply for immigration to the U.S. Any registered illegal alien would be deported if convicted of a felony, unless it was a capital crime as deportation of the body would be pointless.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: May 20, 2014 9:07:49 PM

I have no problem with amnesty as long as the criminal starts the process in his country of origin and works through the US consulate in that country using legal means.
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magpie2013
Champion Author Milwaukee

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Message Posted: May 20, 2014 4:38:07 PM

We can no longer take care of our own, let alone support illegals from other countries, they should be shipped back where they came from. We should be taking care of our own poor first, then we can worry about others. Go down south or go to Louisanna these people need our help. Help begins at home and when we have cleaned our mess up than we can help others!
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: May 20, 2014 1:27:15 PM

Illegal Immigration is Immoral

"Yet, as shameful and immoral as this legacy of {racial} discrimination is, there are very troubling signs that this same immoral attitude is being spawned today and used to oppress America’s newest large ethnic group, Hispanics. And remarkably, these attitudes are leading to housing segregation, poor educational opportunities, and low expectations for Hispanics in all parts of the nation."

"That all of these immoral and racially insensitive actions are being promoted by the Democratic Party, the party that professes to be the party most sensitive to the needs of poor minorities, is very troubling."

Yes, it is very troubling.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2014 11:53:11 AM

If they are here illegally ship them home and send the home country a bill for the costs to do so.
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2014 11:12:41 AM

I75at7AM:>>Why bother to get citizenship when the benefits of citizenship are already being given (and I do mean GIVEN) to illegal aliens?<<

Don't be discouraging all those potential Democrat votes.



[Edited by: therder at 4/26/2014 11:13:22 AM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2014 8:24:52 AM

Why bother to get citizenship when the benefits of citizenship are already being given (and I do mean GIVEN) to illegal aliens?

Feds Spent $26.2 Million On Medicare Advantage For Illegal Immigrants

"In a new report released Friday, the Department of Health and Human Services’ Office of Inspector General (OIG) revealed that for calendar years 2010 through 2012, CMS {The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services} provided $26.2 million in improper payments to Medicare Advantage organizations for 1,600 “unlawfully present beneficiaries” — or nearly $16,375 per illegal immigrant."

So are these just isolated cases?
It matters not, it obviously had become a routine practice for a while and shows a blatant disregard for the law on the the behalf of the administrators of the program.
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Duperza
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Mar 31, 2014 10:03:42 PM

United States already has a path to citizenship. You're disenfranchising the American people and the immigrants who are attempting to obtain citizenship legally. Why reward cutting in line?
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2014 5:42:14 PM

>>Can anyone explain why they need to be given citizenship after breaking our laws?<<

I would have less problem with them being given a path to become legalized nationals rather than voting citizens. (But this is really about increasing the ranks of democrat voters. Our vice-president recently said he already considers illegals citizens.) What a travesty!
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2014 3:46:31 PM

Can anyone explain why they need to be given citizenship after breaking our laws? Can't they be given legal status and nothing more after going through background checks, paying fines, etc.?
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2014 3:22:32 PM

QUOTE::::>>>Amnesty for illegals? Thank St. Ronald. <<<<
I conceder this one of Reagan’s biggest failures as president. ::::




Here we have history repeating itself. We are about to witness once again the proof of Santayana's statement "Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

The Reagan mistake of granting amnesty to these criminals turned out to be a disaster. But Reagan had no history to go by. Obama does.

[Edited by: Hemond at 3/28/2014 3:23:03 PM EST]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2014 1:47:27 PM

Joe Biden says, as far as he is concerned, they already are citizens.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2014 12:24:25 AM

Republican Congressman from Texas Pete Sessions says we should.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2014 11:52:53 AM

Our government can't process or keep up with the paperwork for people that come here legally. How could our government process the paperwork for 20 million ILLEGALS if amnesty were granted? Background checks? You're dreaming.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 4:06:14 PM

"The Post also reported on July 7, 2012, in "U.S. pushes for more scientists, but the jobs aren't there," on high-tech graduates who cannot find jobs. The Post quotes Jim Austin, editor of the online magazine ScienceCareers: "And yet, it seems awfully hard for people to find a job. Anyone who goes into science expecting employers to clamor for their services will be deeply disappointed."

Maybe they need to trim the number of H1B visas.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 2:42:47 PM

Or even necessary! Wouldn't that be embarassing?

What if they gave an Amnesty and no one stayed? (paraphrasing an old anti-war line...)
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 2:01:01 PM

You are correct, I75, it's gotten so bad with our economy that many illegals are voluntarily returning "home". The longer and worse the economy gets, the less likelihood that amnesty will be a priority, or even possible.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 1:22:45 PM

One of the standard arguments of those in favor of Amnesty is that America needs more workers, both unskilled and highly-skilled. Of course, the unskilled labor argument falls flat as we have millions out of work, many because they have few skills.
But the argument that America needs more high-tech workers has been quashed.
Amnesty: Not Just for Low-Skilled Workers?
"The Washington Post reported on April 24, 2013, in "Study: There may not be a shortage of American STEM graduates after all," on a recent study by the Economic Policy Institute..."

"The Post also reported on July 7, 2012, in "U.S. pushes for more scientists, but the jobs aren't there," on high-tech graduates who cannot find jobs. The Post quotes Jim Austin, editor of the online magazine ScienceCareers: "And yet, it seems awfully hard for people to find a job. Anyone who goes into science expecting employers to clamor for their services will be deeply disappointed."

Those proposing Amnesty need to come up with some fresh reasons. Not wanting to go through with upholding current law and finding and deporting illegals is not a good enough reason.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 7, 2014 8:49:11 PM

>>>Amnesty for illegals? Thank St. Ronald. <<<<

I conceder this one of Reagan’s biggest failures as president.

He though he was giving amnesty to a small group of people in exchange for better enforcement of the boarder and tighter enforcement in the country. At least he was up front and called it amnesty not reform.

This is what Reagan reportedly later said about his amnesty deal.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>According to Ronald Reagan himself, as told to his trusted long-time friend and U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese, the biggest mistake of his presidency was signing the 1986 amnesty for what turned out to be more than half the five million illegal immigrants in the country. Reagan was uncomfortable with the amnesty but was persuaded by some of the leaders of his own party (still living) that it would only affect a small number of illegal immigrants and would assure that Congress would follow through with more vigorous enforcement of U.S. immigration laws. The misnamed Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 was touted by its supporters as “comprehensive immigration reform” that would grant amnesty only to a few long-settled immigrants and strengthen border security and internal immigration enforcement against employers who were hiring illegal immigrants.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Link

This article says a lot about how the last amnesty came about and there are lessons to be learned. Will we learn from history or repeat it.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 7, 2014 3:40:15 PM

Regan amnesty : law which was passed after 1984 speech:"The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), Pub.L. 99–603, 100 Stat. 3445, enacted November 6, 1986, also Simpson-Mazzoli Act, is an Act of Congress which reformed United States immigration law. It was an attempt to solve the immigration problem during 1986.
In brief, the act:
1. required employers to attest to their employees' immigration status;
2. made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit unauthorized immigrants;
3. legalized certain seasonal agricultural illegal immigrants, and;
4. legalized illegal immigrants who entered the United States before
--January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of ---- a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt;
5. candidates were required to prove that they were not guilty of crimes, that they were in the country before January 1, 1982, and that they possessed minimal knowledge about U.S. history, government, and the English language.
About three million undocumented immigrants were granted legal status through this act"wiki link
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Hiram 615
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 7, 2014 3:11:54 PM

Amnesty for illegals? Thank St. Ronald.

"I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here even though sometime back they may have entered illegally."
-Ronald Reagan 10/28/1984
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2014 10:13:27 PM

I75at7AM - "Sotomayor was asked at a talk at Yale Law School later in the day about her use of the term “undocumented immigrants” rather than the traditional illegal alien. Sotomayor characterized the issue as a regulatory problem and said labeling immigrants criminals seemed insulting to her."

Well I’m sure that bank robbers would be much more comfortable being called “unauthorized customers”. Carjackers would much prefer the phrase “unauthorized vehicle operator.” I’m sure a rapist would prefer be called the partner of a non consenting sexual event. Murders would like to be charged with unauthorized life termination.

You can put pretty names every crime but it doesn’t change the act.

Perfect example we call liars politician.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2014 11:04:09 AM

I75at7AM - "Sotomayor was asked at a talk at Yale Law School later in the day about her use of the term “undocumented immigrants” rather than the traditional illegal alien. Sotomayor characterized the issue as a regulatory problem and said labeling immigrants criminals seemed insulting to her."

She should realize that nobody is "labeling [all] immigrants criminals". They're labeling specifically those immigrants who are here illegally as criminals.

It's sad that a Supreme Court justice doesn't seem to understand the concept of "illegal".
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2014 10:14:50 AM

"Path to citizenship" = amnesty.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 4, 2014 9:46:43 AM

This gem from the recently minted Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor:

Sotomayor: Labeling Illegal Immigrants Criminals Is Insulting

"Sotomayor was asked at a talk at Yale Law School later in the day about her use of the term “undocumented immigrants” rather than the traditional illegal alien. Sotomayor characterized the issue as a regulatory problem and said labeling immigrants criminals seemed insulting to her."

Another prime example of "how does this make you feel"......

Hey Sonia! We might expect that a lawyer would understand that if a person breaks the law to come here, and continues to break the law by staying here, they are indeed a criminal by definition!

I'd fire her if it were up to me.
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mnrick041
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2014 5:48:53 AM

I am not in favor of giving them anything except a bus ride out of the country.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2014 11:31:18 PM

>>>Yeah, that's the part of everyone's plans that I don't understand. Why reward people for breaking the law?<<<<


Part of any law giving anyone a path to citizenship has to include no government money to noncitizens. If you are not a citizen you do not get SSI payments, WIC, free healthcare, or so much as a free meal. I will give them a free ticket the nearest boarder.

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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2014 10:42:16 PM

:::::They seem to do fine with getting on the Food Stamps and WIC programs though.:::


Plus legal aide, health care, housing, subsidized transit pass, subsidized college tuition, heating assistance, career counseling , job training, plus more.

THey even get airfare and moving expenses. My former tenant (of questionable citizenship) with 4 anchor babies broke her child custody agreement by secretly leaving her former home in N. Carolina. When the court tracked her down, she was ordered to appear in Family Court back there. Her air fare was picked up by local welfare.

Oh yeah, she lost the case and was ordered to return to NC or lose custody. Welfare picked up the cost of the moving van. If an American citizen did this, they 'd go to jail. Plus lose custody.

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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2014 2:27:34 PM

johnnyg1200 - "Any reform needs to come with a way to deal with securing the border"

There is no practical way to secure our southern border.

"and any future illegal immigrants that does not include a free pass for violating the laws of this nation."

Yeah, that's the part of everyone's plans that I don't understand. Why reward people for breaking the law?
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