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Author Topic: Do you agree with those that believe we should create a path to citizenship (amnesty) for ILLEGALS? Back to Topics
101Speedster

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Ventura

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 5:36:14 PM

Do you agree with those that believe the United States should create a path to citizenship (amnesty) for anyone in this world that has decided to break our laws, enter into our country (often ILLEGALLY), live here ILLEGALLY, and often work here ILLEGALLY? I left out vote ILLEGALLY and collect benefits that are supposed to be for United States citizens. Nor did I mention the number of ILLEGAL aliens that are locked up in our prisons and jails or the number of people that they have killed while here.

In 1986, amnesty was given to approximately 2 million ILLEGAL aliens. That deal invited another 11 million ILLEGALS into our country. No one knows for sure how many ILLEGALS are living in our country because many in our government do not want them counted and prevent us from doing so. Part of that 1986 amnesty deal included a provision that our borders had to be secured so that more ILLEGAL aliens would not enter our country. There was also supposed to be interior enforcement of our immigration laws. Neither one of those things has yet happened.

There are reasons why countries have immigration laws. Considering the fiscal cliffs that we are now facing in this country, we should not even be considering inviting more of the world's poor into this country.

Giving amnesty to those that have had no respect for the laws of this country would only be rewarding them for breaking our laws, putting them at the front of the line, and be a slap in the face to those people in this world that are trying to legally enter, live, and work in this country.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:16:29 PM

"Why do some people have such a hard time understanding the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration?"

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

--source debatable
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:09:04 PM

<<Send all you descendants of immigrants back to where you came from! They probably won't want you either!<<

Why do some people have such a hard time understanding the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration? I have no problem with people who come here by following the law. What I have a problem with is the idea of people coming here in violation of the law and then getting benefits I can’t get, in state tuition to Cal Tech for starters.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:05:39 PM

>>We managed to intern about 120,000 Japanese during WWII, not millions. We've got millions of illegals. <<

OOOPs thanks for the correction.
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naw
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 2:26:51 AM

Send all you descendants of immigrants back to where you came from! They probably won't want you either!


[Edited by: naw at 12/2/2014 2:31:12 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 1:15:19 AM

johnnyg1200 - "We can make it financially unsound to hire and Illegal, jail time sounds good to me."

I like the idea I mentioned earlier. Sell green cards for $50,000 cash a pop, and make the penalty for hiring an illegal paying for his green card. Now.

How many illegals will decide NOT to turn in their employer? My guess is, not many.

"We can make it less attractive to come here illegally, No free anything. No education at resident rates, no food stamps, no free medical care. If they want these things get them at home."

That all sounds good.

"We managed to intern millions of Japans during WW11. I think we can find a way to detain illegals until they can make arrangements to get home."

We managed to intern about 120,000 Japanese during WWII, not millions. We've got millions of illegals.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 9:29:22 PM

>>>streetrider - "We cannot deport all the illegals."<<<

We can make it financially unsound to hire and Illegal, jail time sounds good to me.

We can make it less attractive to come here illegally, No free anything. No education at resident rates, no food stamps, no free medical care. If they want these things get them at home.

We managed to intern millions of Japans during WW11. I think we can find a way to detain illegals until they can make arrangements to get home.

They have broken the laws of the land and should not be given a free pass much less a reward.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 4:32:07 PM

I75at7AM - "I consider housing and feeding and providing medical care and providing transportation all across the country to people who don't even deserve to be here to be a waste of money."

And part of my proposal was: "restrict welfare to citizens and permanent resident aliens".
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 4:24:22 PM

We need to get these people above ground, issuing work visas does this no visa good by.

Then a path to citizenship?
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 3:50:07 PM

I consider housing and feeding and providing medical care and providing transportation all across the country to people who don't even deserve to be here to be a waste of money.

Build the damn fence!

In areas where the fence was completed, it is effective. (I know, the crossers just head for an area without the new fence). If the fence sows down the torrent to a trickle, we can better direct personnel resources to stopping those who do cross or finding those who overstay visas.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 2:31:06 PM

I75at7AM - "We can keep out a great number of them with the border fence that was authorized in 2006."

A border fence is a massive waste of effort.

"We can do these things if we try."

We can also waste a ton of money and effort trying to do these things. It's the wrong (meaning expensive and ineffective) approach.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 9:07:06 AM

>>>We also can't keep out all of the new ones trying to get in.<<<

We can keep out a great number of them with the border fence that was authorized in 2006.

We can keep out a great number of them if they know that, after spending their life savings getting smuggled into the US, we will send them straight back across the border forthwith and they will have nothing to show for it.

We can do these things if we try.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 5:57:15 AM

I agree with you here rjhenn.

And they certainly do not deserve citizenship. Why not eventually let them earn legal status?

[Edited by: nstrdnvstr at 12/1/2014 5:58:19 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 2:36:16 AM

streetrider - "We cannot deport all the illegals."

No, we can't. We also can't keep out all of the new ones trying to get in.

What we can do is make it less attractive to remain here illegally, less attractive to hire illegals, and perhaps help make it more attractive for these people to remain where they are.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 12:01:46 AM

Weather we like it or not, this will get done one way or another it always dose.

We cannot deport all the illegals.

[Edited by: streetrider at 12/1/2014 12:02:10 AM EST]
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 9:08:22 AM

Whatever path that is created should begin BEHIND the line where all the prospective legal immigrants are waiting.

Remember the last time you were waiting in line at the bank, or motor vehicles, or some store's cashier, and some ONE tried to cut in? Multiply the "cut in" by a couple of million.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 3:28:25 AM

flyboyUT - "Why not eliminate all the immigration laws?"

Well, if you think anarchy is a viable system, then there's no reason to have any laws.

OTOH, we don't have the economic room for unlimited immigration that we had in the 19th century.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 3:23:14 AM

nstrdnvstr - "rjhenn, why should they get citizenship? They knowingly and willingly broke our laws."

Where did I say that they should get citizenship?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 8:35:34 PM

fly, doubt the libbers will listen, or understand milt... especially the last line...
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 3:43:13 PM

Why not eliminate all the immigration laws?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 9:51:15 AM

fines need to be paid, re-imbursement for services that were rendered to them through tax payer means... and real cost fees should be paid... back taxes should be required as well...
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 8:40:26 AM

rjhenn, why should they get citizenship? They knowingly and willingly broke our laws.

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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 9:19:56 AM

We need to naturalize them, however no matter what race, they have no minority status, or do away with minority status laws.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 12:55:25 AM

I'd expand that slightly to citizen or permanent resident alien.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2014 9:42:09 PM

How about this for a compromise.
We create a path to citizenship for specific illegal aliens. Obama and the liberals get what he want. Now in return for a law passed by congress creating the path to citizenship the same law would bar ANYONE who is not a U.S. citizen from receiving any benefit paid for by federal, state or local government money. That would mean if someone is not a citizen no SSI, Medicare, unemployment benefit, Education loans or even public education. In short if it is paid for by tax dollars it cannot be used by non citizens.

Due to past failures to come through with promises to secure the boarder this would have to be all in the same law. All or nothing.

I could go for this kind of compromise.
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2014 7:06:19 PM

Amid heckling from immigration activists at a Chicago campaign event to celebrate his granting temporary amnesty to an estimated 5 million people in the United States illegally, a perturbed President Obama explained: “But what you're not paying attention to is the fact that I just took action to change the law.” Oops. I didn't know a president could change the law. Must have been a freudian slip there by Obama because he quickly walked back the remark.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2014 1:22:49 AM

I75at7AM - "Last count: 354 House-passed bills gathering dust in Harry's little dark spot."

Are 353 of them repealing ObamaCare? 7;-]
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2014 12:32:08 AM

At this point in time, you can't really lay the blame for anything at the feet of "Congress" without delineating which chamber has or has not passed a bill on a specific subject.

Last count: 354 House-passed bills gathering dust in Harry's little dark spot.
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mnrick041
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 8:53:16 PM

No, most Americans do not agree with this and I hope the Democrats are punished for this in the next election.
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 7:59:50 PM

rjhenn:>>So, much like the inaction on the part of Congress.<<

You are right about the damage done by Congress' failure to pass an immigration bill that works. They had better do something now because President Obama just told millions of illegals they are welcome to remain, and created expectations of such accommodations, to millions, yet to come.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 7:04:34 PM

therder - "The problem all along has been a lack of enforcement of laws already on the books, along with an unsecure border."

That's a bit simplistic, but not far off. It's also a fact that the laws on the books weren't written to be enforceable.

Of course, the fact that the House has refused to even consider the issue makes it nearly impossible to make things any better.

"This action by the president will only make it worse."

So, much like the inaction on the part of Congress.
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 6:32:56 PM

Let me see if I understand this, President Obama is welcoming people who violated the immigration laws of this country because the law is unenforceable because of the sheer numbers already here. So if a law is unenforceable, let's just ignore it. Sends a bad message to those who live by the laws of the land, why should you do it the right way when you can get what you want by doing it illegally? The problem all along has been a lack of enforcement of laws already on the books, along with an unsecure border. This action by the president will only make it worse. I75at7AM is right. Those who have applied to come here from their home countries are chumps.


[Edited by: therder at 11/21/2014 6:33:26 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 3:21:28 PM

The only "path" for illegal aliens should be the one that says OUT. Then if we have to incur expenses to remove these lawbreakers and send them back home their home country should be sent the bill to 'repatriate' them.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 3:20:32 PM

nstrdnvstr - "I agree with about 90% of your position here."

Thank you.

"I think that those that were born here should be considered citizens."

Even if the parents are just tourists, who decided to tour the US in hopes that their baby would be born here?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 3:19:11 PM

I75at7AM - "Sen. Sessions reacts: We must stop Emperor Obama
"Americans defeated President Obama's disastrous amnesty plans both in Congressand at the voting booth. Tonight, President Obama defied an entire nation and declared that he will impose his rejected amnesty through the brute force of executive order."

Funny, the Senate passed an immigration bill last year, but the House has refused to even look at it, or the entire issue.

Isn't that what many Republicans claim only the Democrats do?
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 8:41:00 AM

rjhenn, "I've posted my position and ideas on illegal immigration many times. In essence: Go after the employers; redesign the visa system, including adding a limited numbers temp worker visa that would first go to those already here, with stable jobs and no criminal record; restrict welfare to citizens and permanent resident aliens; reinterpret the 14th so that only those born here to parents who are here both legally and permanently are citizens by birth."

I agree with about 90% of your position here.

I think that those that were born here should be considered citizens. The parents, if illegal, must still go back and come over the right, legal way. They should have the choice to leave their children with family that is here legally of they can take them back to their native country and come back together as a family when going through the proper process. That way families are not being "torn apart".

We currently have US citizens living in other countries, so this would not be much different it that way.

And I don't think that there should be a path to citizenship for those that are here illegally. Maybe a path to legal residence, but since they knowingly and willingly broke several laws by remaining here, they should have to "settle" for eventual legal residency.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2014 10:15:47 PM

I don't agree with the "path" that 0bama has laid out. Illegals and assorted line-jumpers get to stay, are allowed to get jobs, S Numbers, drivers licenses, and work permits. Those who have applied to come here from their home countries are chumps.

Sen. Sessions reacts: We must stop Emperor Obama
"Americans defeated President Obama's disastrous amnesty plans both in Congressand at the voting booth. Tonight, President Obama defied an entire nation and declared that he will impose his rejected amnesty through the brute force of executive order.

President Obama's executive amnesty will provide an estimated 5 million illegal immigrants with the exact benefits Congress rejected, in violation of federal law. His order will grant them social security numbers, government-issued ID's, legal status and work permits. Illegal immigrants will now be able to take jobs and benefits directly from struggling Americans in a time of high unemployment and low wages."

0bama is a total douchebag.
He obviously hates less-successful Americans, including "his own people".
He has no regard for the Constitution, our laws, or his own prnouncements from years past.

And no, this is not the same thing as other (Republican) Presidents have done in the past. And I disagreed with those actions too.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 11/20/2014 10:16:18 PM EST]
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therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2014 7:51:20 AM

It is looking more likely that President Obama will give amnesty to 11 million illegals by executive order. Giving amnesty without securing the border didn't work in 1986. It won't work now. If he commits this traitorous act he should be impeached. I will shortly be writing to my currently elected officials about this. Hopefully others will do the same.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2014 10:02:39 PM

I think Chris Mathews is a no......
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2014 1:05:05 PM

Report: Exec Amnesty 'No Matter How Big a Shellacking' For Dems

"ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jon Karl reported that according to WH officials “the president will move forward with an executive order on immigration reform “no matter how big a shellacking Democrats get tonight” during ABC’s Election coverage on Tuesday.

Karl said “White House officials are saying that you can expect the president to set an aggressive, and defiant tone tomorrow. You're not going to see any mea culpas, no big firings, no change in direction.”

He added “officials tell me the president is prepared to aggressively pursue his agenda using his power of executive authority, where he can't work with Congress, and the big one is going to be on immigration reform."

So much for "reaching across the aisle" and bipartisanship and doing what is best for the country. Lord 0bama wants it his way and will use his pen to order it.
Does 0bama's core constituency realize how much amnesty will hurt them? Immigrants in general and illegal immigrants in particular start at the bottom rung of jobs, and with black unemployment still above 11% that does not bode well for improving that employment number.
(Shut up, drink your kool aid, cash your benefits check, and continue to vote Democrat)
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mnrick041
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2014 8:12:09 PM

No, Never. The only "path" we should be creating for these illegal aliens is one that leads back to where they came from.
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Tru2psu2
Champion Author Winston-Salem

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2014 8:00:48 PM

WE HAVE A PATH! USE IT!

[Edited by: Tru2psu2 at 11/4/2014 8:01:15 PM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2014 7:38:20 PM

Saw an interesting idea today: instead of the current green card system, simply sell green cards for $50,000 a pop, cash only. And make the penalty for hiring an illegal having to pay for that illegal's green card, cash.

All an illegal would have to do to get a green card is turn in his employer.

How fast would that make the jobs go away?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 1, 2014 12:41:43 AM

I75at7AM - "Free market is one thing, being played for a fool by being disadvantaged at every turn is a sucker's game and I don't think americans want to play any more."

But isn't that the desired effect of catering to the rich?
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 1, 2014 12:08:44 AM

Free market is one thing, being played for a fool by being disadvantaged at every turn is a sucker's game and I don't think americans want to play any more.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 6:30:16 PM

I75at7AM - "Rj, your ideas on handling illegal immigration are okay, but we can secure the border immediately while working to sort out who is already here and what "benefits" they are eligible for."

Except that you can't "secure the border". We might be able to improve security somewhat, but even the Israeli's have been unable to create secure borders.

"Some companies simply offshore the entire workload, from software development to call centers for large businesses. For you to say that businesses should have the option to hire "immigrants" for less to do the work here while Americans need jobs just doesn't make any sense."

While I agree, I think that's a strange position for any conservative to take. It's anti-capitalist and anti-free market.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 6:26:32 PM

teacher_tim - "All of that is reasonable rjhenn, but if you don't stop ilegals from coming in all you are doing is encouraging more."

It's more the other way around. We need to stop encouraging them to come in before we'll have much success at stopping them from coming in.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 3:58:04 PM

Rj, your ideas on handling illegal immigration are okay, but we can secure the border immediately while working to sort out who is already here and what "benefits" they are eligible for.

As for this: >>Immigrants with those skills will work for less than citizens with those skills, so companies want to hire them instead of citizens. <<
I think we should make employment preferences to our own citizens, especially our own children who we paid for twelve years of public school education and probably paid a bunch more for some post-secondary education in the STEM fields. So what if an immigrant will do the same job for less. We let immigrants and migrants (who may be citizens) pick agricultural crops for less pay, but in the STEM fields we don't have a shortage of eligible qualified workers, we have many already trained, looking for work.

Some companies simply offshore the entire workload, from software development to call centers for large businesses. For you to say that businesses should have the option to hire "immigrants" for less to do the work here while Americans need jobs just doesn't make any sense.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 3:12:29 PM

Obama may do that, but what the government giveth, it can taketh away.

All of that is reasonable rjhenn, but if you don't stop ilegals from coming in all you are doing is encouraging more. That's what happened when we did it under Reagan.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 3:00:30 PM

I75at7AM - "No, rj, people like me don't sit around waiting for their marching orders to come from Democrat Central."

Actually, that was a reply to jd's post, which, like other posts he's made, looked like it probably came from a chain email.

"I was reading a news site, The Weekly Standard, and the piece about Senator Sessions was there."

Calling the Weekly Standard a news site is stretching things a bit. Like Crooks & Liars on the other side, they're extremely biased.

"Do you care to discuss what is in the column?"

I've posted my position and ideas on illegal immigration many times. In essence: Go after the employers; redesign the visa system, including adding a limited numbers temp worker visa that would first go to those already here, with stable jobs and no criminal record; restrict welfare to citizens and permanent resident aliens; reinterpret the 14th so that only those born here to parents who are here both legally and permanently are citizens by birth.

Once all that's done, then we can look at improved border security.

"Yet we have more than 11 million Americans with STEM degrees who don’t have jobs in these fields."

Which is simply capitalism. Immigrants with those skills will work for less than citizens with those skills, so companies want to hire them instead of citizens.

Are you against capitalism?

"And now, in order to help open borders billionaires, President 0bama is going to deny millions of Americans their shot at entering the middle class and a better life."

Capitalism again: what benefits the already wealthy is what's best for the country. I don't understand how Republicans can be against this. </sar>

[Edited by: rjhenn at 10/31/2014 3:01:06 PM EST]
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 1:48:11 PM

If there is to be a path to citizenship, it MUST start with secure borders. Period.

Anyone caught trying to cross in illegally after a certain date is fingerprinted and deported immediately. A second crossing results in incarceration, then deportation.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 1:47:03 PM

No, rj, people like me don't sit around waiting for their marching orders to come from Democrat Central.
I was reading a news site, The Weekly Standard, and the piece about Senator Sessions was there.
(Actually, it was linked on Drudge this morning.)

Do you care to discuss what is in the column?
In case you didn't actually go there, here is another snippet:

"The WSJ reports that the President is ‘expected to benefit businesses that use large numbers of legal immigrants, such as technology companies.’ Those changes include measures to massively expand the number of foreign workers for IT companies—measures aggressively lobbied for by IT giants like Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates. Yet we have more than 11 million Americans with STEM degrees who don’t have jobs in these fields. Rutgers professor Hal Salzman documented that two-thirds of all new IT jobs are being filled by foreign workers. From 2000 through today, a period of record legal immigration, all net gains in employment among the working-age have gone entirely to immigrant workers."

"And now, in order to help open borders billionaires, President 0bama is going to deny millions of Americans their shot at entering the middle class and a better life."

We note that the time period 2000 through today includes the totality of the GWB administration, all of 0bama's administration so far, and the last year of the Clinton I Administration.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 10/31/2014 1:50:30 PM EST]
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