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Author Topic: Do you agree with those that believe we should create a path to citizenship (amnesty) for ILLEGALS? Back to Topics
101Speedster
Champion Author
Ventura

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 5:36:14 PM

Do you agree with those that believe the United States should create a path to citizenship (amnesty) for anyone in this world that has decided to break our laws, enter into our country (often ILLEGALLY), live here ILLEGALLY, and often work here ILLEGALLY? I left out vote ILLEGALLY and collect benefits that are supposed to be for United States citizens. Nor did I mention the number of ILLEGAL aliens that are locked up in our prisons and jails or the number of people that they have killed while here.

In 1986, amnesty was given to approximately 2 million ILLEGAL aliens. That deal invited another 11 million ILLEGALS into our country. No one knows for sure how many ILLEGALS are living in our country because many in our government do not want them counted and prevent us from doing so. Part of that 1986 amnesty deal included a provision that our borders had to be secured so that more ILLEGAL aliens would not enter our country. There was also supposed to be interior enforcement of our immigration laws. Neither one of those things has yet happened.

There are reasons why countries have immigration laws. Considering the fiscal cliffs that we are now facing in this country, we should not even be considering inviting more of the world's poor into this country.

Giving amnesty to those that have had no respect for the laws of this country would only be rewarding them for breaking our laws, putting them at the front of the line, and be a slap in the face to those people in this world that are trying to legally enter, live, and work in this country.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 6:49:17 AM

Middletownmarty, ""So why should those that are here illegally ever get citizenship?"

Why should you (or any natural born Americans) have received citizenship simply by virtue of being born here?"

Because that is how it works in just about EVERY COUNTRY!

That is what it says in the US Constitution!

We have rules and laws that need to be followed.

They knowingly and willingly broke the law and should suffer consequences for it. Rewarding people for bad behavior is JUST BAD POLICY!!!

nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 6:44:50 AM

Middletownmarty, ""Those who choose to break our laws on how to become a citizen have no rights under our laws "

That's not true."

You are correct, but they shouldn't have a right to become a US citizen, especially ahead of other people who are coming over here and doing things the right and legal way.

What is wrong with eventually just giving them legal status without citizenship?

They broke and are breaking the law staying here illegally. They have no right to automatic citizenship.
wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 4:56:55 AM

no
BlkynB
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Mar 15, 2015 3:12:08 AM

We already have a path for legal citizenship that many generations have followed, and it is still in force.

We don'[t need a path to take lawbreakers and make them citizens -- PERIOD.

.
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 6:28:56 PM

"We have a procedure to legally enter the United States and become a full citizen of this country"

That procedure, for natural born citizens, is to enter the US via the birth canal. None of us did a thing to earn citizenship, let alone the overcome the hurdles we insist on potential naturalized citizens to overcome. I wonder how many of us could endure them.



"Those who choose to break our laws on how to become a citizen have no rights under our laws "

That's not true. Funny how you tout the law in the first part of your post and later ignore it when it suits.

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 3/14/2015 6:29:20 PM EST]
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 5:36:59 PM

"Why should you (or any natural born Americans) have received citizenship simply by virtue of being born here?" Maybe because thats what our laws say ya think.....

What does the term Illegal Alien mean - try someone who is not here legally and needs to be held accountable for breaking our laws and should be deported at the earliest opportunity and returned whence they came from.

We have a procedure to legally enter the United States and become a full citizen of this country. Those who choose to break our laws on how to become a citizen have no rights under our laws - they need to be removed from our society ASAP.

I would like to see a massive fine for any company hiring an illegal alien to work here in the US. If it no longer became profitable for companies to hire them they would self deport as they could not work and would not be eligible for taxpayer paid aid of any kind. Any emergency aid would be a bill sent to their home country and if not paid the country would receive less aid from us.
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2015 5:21:51 PM

"The democrat party's message on the illegal aliens issue is simply more effective and appealing. "

More effective and appealing than the republican message of self-sufficiency and opportunity for all, or more believable?



"If amnesty did not include a path to voting citizenship it would sail through the congress."

That Congress won't wrestle with difficult issues doesn't say much about Congress' ability to govern.


therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 10:40:22 PM

>>Why do you suppose they wouldn't vote for Republicans? I wonder if it might be some embedded message the Republicans are sending that would turn them off to the Republican dream of self-sufficiency and opportunity.<<
The democrat party's message on the illegal aliens issue is simply more effective and appealing. It's much easier for democrats to continue pandering for votes in their growing hispanic base. Democrats know that demographics and time are on their side. In contrast, the republican party is trying to be "democrat lite" on the issue and exposing the fractures in their party.

If amnesty did not include a path to voting citizenship it would sail through the congress.
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 6:22:20 PM

"So why should those that are here illegally ever get citizenship?"

Why should you (or any natural born Americans) have received citizenship simply by virtue of being born here?



"Because only making them U.S. Nationals without also granting citizenship won't allow them to vote (for democrats) in elections."

Why do you suppose they wouldn't vote for Republicans? I wonder if it might be some embedded message the Republicans are sending that would turn them off to the Republican dream of self-sufficiency and opportunity.

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 3/13/2015 6:22:43 PM EST]
therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 5:56:00 PM

>>So why should those that are here illegally ever get citizenship? What is wrong with just eventually giving them legal status without citizenship?<<

Because only making them U.S. Nationals without also granting citizenship won't allow them to vote (for democrats) in elections.
nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 4:47:07 PM

So why should those that are here illegally ever get citizenship? What is wrong with just eventually giving them legal status without citizenship?
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 11:46:42 AM

From the AP:

15 immigrants protected from deportation arrested in sweep

" The Associated Press

WASHINGTON —

Federal agents in a sweep targeting the most dangerous criminal immigrants arrested 15 people who have been allowed to remain in the U.S. under President Barack Obama's executive action intended to protect children who came to the U.S. years ago with their parents, The Associated Press has learned."

"Fourteen of the 15 had been convicted of a crime, the Homeland Security Department confirmed late Thursday."

"One of the eligibility requirements for the program is that immigrants not have a criminal history."

"ICE agents arrested 2,059 convicted immigrants, including more than 1,000 people who had multiple convictions"

Okay, 2,059 arrested, 15 had been issued protection under the new Amnesty directive. That's a really small percentage, right? A really small number? Meaningless, unless one of these criminal aliens committed a crime against you or a loved one....

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 3/13/2015 11:49:22 AM EST]
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2015 12:36:39 PM

As the writer here says, this will make your blood run cold, and make your rage run hot:

0bama Amnesty Plan: Legalize Foreigners, 'Take Over the Host,' 'Push Citizens into the Shadows'

"It was supposed to be a phone call for Obama administration ears only. But hear it the radio host did, she says."

"0bama’s amnesty plan is to use illegal aliens as “seedlings,” said the federal officials. They will “navigate, not assimilate,” as they “take over the host,” create a “country within a country” and start “pushing the citizens into the shadows.”"

"Welcome to the “fundamental transformation” of America."

"The above was alleged by WCBM radio co-host Sue Payne in an interview with talk giant Mark Levin Thursday last week."

"To this nefarious end, the goal of the TFNA is to create a “welcoming feeling” in illegal-seeded localities, which would be redesignated “receiving communities.” They’d subsequently be transformed (fundamentally, I suppose) into what are labeled “emerging immigrant communities” — or as some would say, México Norte."

"The officials also said, reports Payne, that for the seedlings to “grow” they needed “fertile soil” (a.k.a. your tax money). The officials stated that the legalized aliens needed to be redesignated as “refugees” and be given cash, medical care, credit cards for purchasing documents and — since many illegals will be older — Social Security..."

Welcome, indeed, to Lord 0bama's transformed America.

Shut up and pay your damned taxes (just raised by $100 Billion by a phone call). You can't speak out or you will be labelled a 'racist' and the government might clamp down on your business (if you have one) through Operation Choke Point.

Yeah, they've got it covered.

I hope you like what you have done to America. Only idiots voted for that guy.
e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2015 12:36:50 PM

Booting them out is not a reasonable solution because the majority of them likely have been here for a very long time. They operate in the gray market fringes, cash, no taxes.

I'm all for amnesty if you want to become a citizen. However, it absolutely cannot be an express lane to voting.

Make no mistake, Obama wants these people to vote in 2016.

1. You have 6 months to surrender yourself, and register
2. If you are working -- GREAT! now pay taxes
3. Streamline the citizenship path cutting attorneys out
4. Pass basic language test
5. Health standards met
6. Criminals need not apply
7. Pass a formal driving program
8. Pass existing citizenship testing

Yes it will take a few years, and shouldn't suck you dry in attorney fees.

Why is this so difficult? Because Democrats want voters first, nothing else matters. If this happens, our country implodes -- overwhelmed in a free-for-all that sinks Citizens that are already here LEGALLY.


[Edited by: e_jeepin at 2/26/2015 12:42:24 PM EST]
klutz347
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2015 11:48:49 AM

No.

If you want to become a citizen of this country, we have ways to do it. Do it properly, welcome to our great country.

If you come here ILLEGALLY, expect to be booted out until you can come back and do it the way we tell you too.

I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2015 11:44:44 AM

0bama: 'Consequences' for ICE 0fficials Who Don't Follow Executive Amnesty

"President Obama warned workers at the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement: implement executive amnesty, or else. He made the comments in a town hall event on immigration on MSNBC." (Chances are you did not see it)

"According to the White House pool report, President 0bama was asked for reassurance that people wouldn't be deported as the legal battle over the executive amnesty plays out in the courts."

“Until we pass a law through Congress, the executive actions we’ve taken are not going to be permanent; they are temporary. There are going to be some jurisdictions and there may be individual ICE official or Border Control agent not paying attention to our new directives. But they’re going to be answerable to the head of Homeland Security because he’s been very clear about what our priorities will be,” 0bama said, according to a partial transcript provided by the pool reporter."

"“If somebody’s working for ICE … and they don’t follow the policy, there’s going to be consequences to it.”"

So he's using the phone, the pen, and the Teleprompter.

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 2/26/2015 11:47:03 AM EST]
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2015 11:18:39 AM

The free money buzzer is ringing again, BIGTIME !!!

IRS to pay back-refunds to illegal immigrants who didn’t pay taxes

"IRS Commissioner John Koskinen told Congress on Wednesday that even illegal immigrants who didn’t pay taxes will be able to claim back-refunds once they get Social Security numbers under President Obama’s temporary deportation amnesty.

The revelation — which contradicts what he told Congress last week — comes as lawmakers also raised concerns Mr. Obama’s amnesty could open a window to illegal immigrants finding ways to vote, despite it being against the law."

Congress needs to pass a bill, immediately, to address this incongruity. The bill should clearly state that non-citizens are not "entitled" to refunds of money that they did not pay in taxes. Congress also should not allow regular Social Security numbers to be issued to illegals or other legal aliens. Those persons should be issued a TIN that is of a different format than a Social Security Number, so that the privileges of citizenship are not conferred on people who aren't eligible for it.



[Edited by: I75at7AM at 2/12/2015 11:19:44 AM EST]
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 6, 2015 5:39:04 PM

The only path for Illegal Aliens should be the way out!
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 6, 2015 4:02:16 PM

When the free money buzzer rings, the line to get into this country gets really long. Except that there is no line, just come on in, any ol' place or any ol' way, and start enjoying the good life in the USA.

Ask any illegal alien you happen to meet, "Did you get your Amnesty Bonus?"

Or maybe, don't mention it at all.....

Congress needs to address this situation with a simple, 2-part law:
1. EITC can be claimed only by citizens.
2. EITC cannot be applied retroactively.
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Feb 2, 2015 3:38:06 PM

In case you didn't know this was happening, this might be news:

0bama Quietly Adds 5.46 Million Foreigners To Economy

"President Barack 0bama has quietly handed out an extra 5.46 million work permits for non-immigrant foreigners who arrived as tourists, students, illegal immigrants or other types of migrants since 2009, according to federal documents released by a Freedom of Information Act request.

“The executive branch is operating a huge parallel work-authorization system outside the bounds of the [immigration] laws and limits written by Congress [and which] inevitably reduces job opportunities for Americans,” said Jessica Vaughan, the policy director at the Center for Immigration Studies, while filed the FOIA request."

What's that unemployment rate again? What about jobs that Americans just won't do? (Just ask Loretta Lynch about that).

"“The true magnitude of how often he has evaded the limits set by Congress on foreign workers has never been known until now,” she told The Daily Caller."

The illegal actions by this illegitimate president continue!

[Edited by: I75at7AM at 2/2/2015 3:40:30 PM EST]
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2015 2:13:08 PM

It doesn't matter what we believe. It's what King Obama wants.
Tru2psu2
Champion Author Winston-Salem

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2014 8:22:08 AM

WE already have a process for immigrants!
therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2014 12:33:29 AM

The terms "undocumented worker", "undocumented immigrant", "unlawful immigrant", "undocumented alien", "undocumented student", "undocumented migrant", "unauthorized immigrant", and "illegal immigrant" are often used to describe those who have broken the law of our land to enter and work in our country illegally. These are all misleading terms, deliberately used to "soften" the issue of illegal entry into the United States.

The term "undocumented" implies that foreign nationals have the unconditional right to violate America's borders and immigration laws, and that the worst offense they may have committed was forgetting to complete some paperwork. The reality of the situation is the illegal aliens have all kinds of Social Security cards and other documents - it's just that those documents are forged or stolen.

An "immigrant" is an invited guest - a person who comes to a country where they are not a citizen in order to settle there. The term "immigrant" implies permanent, legal, residency. (Although because of amnesties and status adjustments, about 25% of currently legal immigrants first came here illegally).

The accurate description of a foreign national illegally residing in America is "illegal alien". An illegal alien is a criminal.
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:16:29 PM

"Why do some people have such a hard time understanding the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration?"

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

--source debatable
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:09:04 PM

<<Send all you descendants of immigrants back to where you came from! They probably won't want you either!<<

Why do some people have such a hard time understanding the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration? I have no problem with people who come here by following the law. What I have a problem with is the idea of people coming here in violation of the law and then getting benefits I can’t get, in state tuition to Cal Tech for starters.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 12:05:39 PM

>>We managed to intern about 120,000 Japanese during WWII, not millions. We've got millions of illegals. <<

OOOPs thanks for the correction.
naw
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 2:26:51 AM

Send all you descendants of immigrants back to where you came from! They probably won't want you either!


[Edited by: naw at 12/2/2014 2:31:12 AM EST]
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2014 1:15:19 AM

johnnyg1200 - "We can make it financially unsound to hire and Illegal, jail time sounds good to me."

I like the idea I mentioned earlier. Sell green cards for $50,000 cash a pop, and make the penalty for hiring an illegal paying for his green card. Now.

How many illegals will decide NOT to turn in their employer? My guess is, not many.

"We can make it less attractive to come here illegally, No free anything. No education at resident rates, no food stamps, no free medical care. If they want these things get them at home."

That all sounds good.

"We managed to intern millions of Japans during WW11. I think we can find a way to detain illegals until they can make arrangements to get home."

We managed to intern about 120,000 Japanese during WWII, not millions. We've got millions of illegals.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 9:29:22 PM

>>>streetrider - "We cannot deport all the illegals."<<<

We can make it financially unsound to hire and Illegal, jail time sounds good to me.

We can make it less attractive to come here illegally, No free anything. No education at resident rates, no food stamps, no free medical care. If they want these things get them at home.

We managed to intern millions of Japans during WW11. I think we can find a way to detain illegals until they can make arrangements to get home.

They have broken the laws of the land and should not be given a free pass much less a reward.
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 4:32:07 PM

I75at7AM - "I consider housing and feeding and providing medical care and providing transportation all across the country to people who don't even deserve to be here to be a waste of money."

And part of my proposal was: "restrict welfare to citizens and permanent resident aliens".
streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 4:24:22 PM

We need to get these people above ground, issuing work visas does this no visa good by.

Then a path to citizenship?
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 3:50:07 PM

I consider housing and feeding and providing medical care and providing transportation all across the country to people who don't even deserve to be here to be a waste of money.

Build the damn fence!

In areas where the fence was completed, it is effective. (I know, the crossers just head for an area without the new fence). If the fence sows down the torrent to a trickle, we can better direct personnel resources to stopping those who do cross or finding those who overstay visas.
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 2:31:06 PM

I75at7AM - "We can keep out a great number of them with the border fence that was authorized in 2006."

A border fence is a massive waste of effort.

"We can do these things if we try."

We can also waste a ton of money and effort trying to do these things. It's the wrong (meaning expensive and ineffective) approach.
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 9:07:06 AM

>>>We also can't keep out all of the new ones trying to get in.<<<

We can keep out a great number of them with the border fence that was authorized in 2006.

We can keep out a great number of them if they know that, after spending their life savings getting smuggled into the US, we will send them straight back across the border forthwith and they will have nothing to show for it.

We can do these things if we try.
nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 5:57:15 AM

I agree with you here rjhenn.

And they certainly do not deserve citizenship. Why not eventually let them earn legal status?

[Edited by: nstrdnvstr at 12/1/2014 5:58:19 AM EST]
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 2:36:16 AM

streetrider - "We cannot deport all the illegals."

No, we can't. We also can't keep out all of the new ones trying to get in.

What we can do is make it less attractive to remain here illegally, less attractive to hire illegals, and perhaps help make it more attractive for these people to remain where they are.
streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2014 12:01:46 AM

Weather we like it or not, this will get done one way or another it always dose.

We cannot deport all the illegals.

[Edited by: streetrider at 12/1/2014 12:02:10 AM EST]
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 9:08:22 AM

Whatever path that is created should begin BEHIND the line where all the prospective legal immigrants are waiting.

Remember the last time you were waiting in line at the bank, or motor vehicles, or some store's cashier, and some ONE tried to cut in? Multiply the "cut in" by a couple of million.
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 3:28:25 AM

flyboyUT - "Why not eliminate all the immigration laws?"

Well, if you think anarchy is a viable system, then there's no reason to have any laws.

OTOH, we don't have the economic room for unlimited immigration that we had in the 19th century.
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2014 3:23:14 AM

nstrdnvstr - "rjhenn, why should they get citizenship? They knowingly and willingly broke our laws."

Where did I say that they should get citizenship?
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 8:35:34 PM

fly, doubt the libbers will listen, or understand milt... especially the last line...
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 3:43:13 PM

Why not eliminate all the immigration laws?
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 9:51:15 AM

fines need to be paid, re-imbursement for services that were rendered to them through tax payer means... and real cost fees should be paid... back taxes should be required as well...
nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2014 8:40:26 AM

rjhenn, why should they get citizenship? They knowingly and willingly broke our laws.

streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 9:19:56 AM

We need to naturalize them, however no matter what race, they have no minority status, or do away with minority status laws.
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2014 12:55:25 AM

I'd expand that slightly to citizen or permanent resident alien.
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2014 9:42:09 PM

How about this for a compromise.
We create a path to citizenship for specific illegal aliens. Obama and the liberals get what he want. Now in return for a law passed by congress creating the path to citizenship the same law would bar ANYONE who is not a U.S. citizen from receiving any benefit paid for by federal, state or local government money. That would mean if someone is not a citizen no SSI, Medicare, unemployment benefit, Education loans or even public education. In short if it is paid for by tax dollars it cannot be used by non citizens.

Due to past failures to come through with promises to secure the boarder this would have to be all in the same law. All or nothing.

I could go for this kind of compromise.
therder
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2014 7:06:19 PM

Amid heckling from immigration activists at a Chicago campaign event to celebrate his granting temporary amnesty to an estimated 5 million people in the United States illegally, a perturbed President Obama explained: “But what you're not paying attention to is the fact that I just took action to change the law.” Oops. I didn't know a president could change the law. Must have been a freudian slip there by Obama because he quickly walked back the remark.
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2014 1:22:49 AM

I75at7AM - "Last count: 354 House-passed bills gathering dust in Harry's little dark spot."

Are 353 of them repealing ObamaCare? 7;-]
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2014 12:32:08 AM

At this point in time, you can't really lay the blame for anything at the feet of "Congress" without delineating which chamber has or has not passed a bill on a specific subject.

Last count: 354 House-passed bills gathering dust in Harry's little dark spot.
mnrick041
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:18,530
Points:2,201,910
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 8:53:16 PM

No, most Americans do not agree with this and I hope the Democrats are punished for this in the next election.
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