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Author Topic: People will react to unfair taxation Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2013 12:55:26 PM

But the folks who keep on wanting to raise taxes don't wish to hear of the consequences of their actions. >>>Professional golfer Phil Mickelson told reporters Sunday that he is considering “drastic changes” in response to state and federal income tax hikes — including possibly leaving the United States.

“It’s been an interesting off-season. And I’m going to have to make some drastic changes. I’m not going to jump the gun and do it right away, but I will be making some drastic changes,” Mickelson said during a press conference following the Humana Challenge golf tournament in La Quinta, Calif.

When pressed by reporters about whether those “drastic changes” could include leaving California or even the United States, the four-time major championship winner didn’t foreclose the possibility. But he made clear the reason he is considering such drastic options is the massive tax burden he now shoulders. (RELATED: Millions flee California because of progressive tax system)

“But if you add up, if you add up all the federal and you look at the disability and the unemployment and the Social Security and the state, my tax rate’s 62, 63 percent. So I’ve got to make some decisions on what I’m going to do,” said Mickelson.<<<

Now he is just one who is making a public statement. There are lots of folks who are quietly sheltering their money from the rapacious greedy claws of those who want to steal it. Whets funny is a large number of those are folks like Michael Moor and Sen Kerry and all the rest of the libs who keep squealing for more taxes and 'fair share'.

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 1/21/2013 12:57:33 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 7:34:43 PM

Just turbotaxes mine - Folks will think I'm a taker and didnt pay my fair share. Obeyed all the silly laws and owe a whole lot less than Warren - both in dollars and as a percentage of income.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 7:25:52 PM

>>Johnny is illustrating the inequality, or "unfairness" in the tax code as it is today.<<

EZ, don't you mean as it has been for decades? Or do you mean as it has been since the Bush tax cuts?

>>nick thinks he's a taker?<<

No, jd, I'm using the term that you righties have used non-stop for anyone who pays no federal income taxes. What - you suddenly don't like the term now that it applies to one of your own? Too bad.

>>Nick is the perfect example of what I think of when I talk about/to liberals. If you ask a question he insults you “taker” knowing nothing about the person.<<

Again, read my response to jd's post. You all had no problem labeling people "takers" whom you know nothing about. If any liberal on this site wrote what you wrote, he would be derided as a "taker" by every con, and if you don't know that then you haven't been paying attention.

In terms of "a perfect example of what (you) think of when (you) talk about/to liberals", I can only guess that you mean people who see through righties' hypocrisy.

I mean, when your fellow righties were (heck, they still are) talking about all the "takers" and claiming that they all voted for Obama, I didn't recall you (or any con) saying, "Hey, not so fast. Just because someone pays no federal income tax does not make them a taker". I would think that you, as someone who falls into the category of what your fellow cons describe as a "taker", might have objected to that term and explained how wrong they were, what an insult it was. I sure hope you'll step up to the plate and do that now.

>>I’m just surprised Nick old boy you, missed one of the other key parts of the uberliberal rant. You forgot to tell me that if I think its unfair that I don’t pay taxes, I should have volunteered to pay more on my own.<<

johnny, I'm surprised that you would label something as an "uberliberal rant" that, in fact, was the "rant" of the "uber" cons on this site regarding Warren Buffett's argument that he paid a smaller percent than his secretary.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:03:20 AM

MJ - are you sure you're not a closet Republican?
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 9:06:02 AM

Tax envy, that's what it is.

You report a married couple paying 30% and complaining of a Billionaire paying 16%.

What you ignore is the married couple had an adjusted taxable income around $200,000 and paid $60,000 while the Billionaire you complain about paid $160,000,000 on each billion of his income. And most of those billionaires are self made billionaires. Plus they pay the salaries of a lot of those who pay &60,000 in taxes.

The more you tax these billionaires, the fewer people the billionaires will be able to pay $200,000.

Think about it and maybe you will begin to understand why our forefathers forbade income taxes and opted to fund the government through other types of taxes.

[Edited by: BlackGumTree at 1/31/2013 9:08:04 AM EST]
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MarkJames
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 9:00:43 AM

I vote with my feet, wallet, actions and non-actions all the time, but mostly due to property taxes, sales taxes, inflation, regulations, zoning, deed restrictions, codes, enforcement... too much to list.

Often I've only had to move, buy or build minutes away to save tens of thousands of dollars per year in property taxes alone.

Regardless of my expenses, they're paid for directly, or indirectly by customers, tenants, employees, suppliers etc.

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johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:45:44 AM

Nick is the perfect example of what I think of when I talk about/to liberals. If you ask a question he insults you “taker” knowing nothing about the person. If someone says they think something is unfair he insults him “Whiner” again without even knowing the person. Then he make assumptions about a person again knowing nothing about the person, “You, OTOH, even with your "$0.00 in federal income tax", are probably just scraping by.”

I’m just surprised Nick old boy you, missed one of the other key parts of the uberliberal rant. You forgot to tell me that if I think its unfair that I don’t pay taxes, I should have volunteered to pay more on my own. Of course even if I did that wouldn’t fix the broken system. Liberals just through that out so they can try to blame you for not doing your part to make it right.

The one thing that still hasn’t been answered is how or why this is fair. They never will because it isn’t.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:19:42 AM

nick thinks he's a taker? wow, wonder what he calls the people who live in govt paid housing, with 6 kids who have various fathers, with food stamps, and medical, and all the other unicorns? those are the takers . . .
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EZExit
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 11:32:42 PM

Nick: <<<"A single person with no deductions would have to make $94,000 to pay "over $17,000 in federal income tax"">>>

***********

Also, a single person with no deductions and no job, just barely scraping by, inheriting a home worth $61,000 would have to pay "over $17,000 in federal income tax". Unfortunately, there are numerous scenarios that allow the feds to raid your wallet, I just cited capital gains taxes. Johnny is illustrating the inequality, or "unfairness" in the tax code as it is today. I take it from your post that the federal tax is now fair and square in your eyes, so there would be no chance to hear your voice in the democratic chant of "pay your fair share".
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NickHammer
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 11:15:29 PM

>>I paid $0.00 in federal income tax.<<

So, you're a taker, huh? One who probably voted for Romney, too.

>>My brother did a little better than I did. He is single and rents a house and no kids. He puts in over 70 hours a week and his days off consist of only 4 hours worth the meetings. He paid over $17,000 in federal income tax.<<

A single person with no deductions would have to make $94,000 to pay "over $17,000 in federal income tax". I would hardly consider $94,000 only "a little bit better than" $50,000.

>>Now would someone explain how this is fair?<<

He makes a crapload more money than you do and has no deductions. I wouldn't feel too bad for your whiny brother, though. With his salary and no kids he should be able to save a good chunk of money each year. You, OTOH, even with your "$0.00 in federal income tax", are probably just scraping by.

And you know what other whiner is able to save a good chunk of money each year? Phil Mickelson.

[Edited by: NickHammer at 1/30/2013 11:17:02 PM EST]
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 11:00:04 PM

I also believe that if taxes are super unfavorable in one place, folks will move to another. I have a cousin who is wealthy, or rather, his wife the heiress is. Anyway, they moved out of CA to FL, because FL is a zero tax state. After they're finished cashing out, I could see them leaving their money in a trust and being paid in FL, but they eventually want to move here to LaLa land. She loves LA, he thinks it's OK, and wants to move either to the Hollywood Hills, or to West Hollywood near the Pacific Design Center. Anyway, they will only move back if they're not earning money here in the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Who can blame them? I wouldn't want to pay the 10%++ state tax here.
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Wanda127
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 10:53:49 PM

I don't blame Mickelson & others if they leave CA. for a state with lower taxes.

It's also unfair that people get back more than they paid in with the EIC while others are paying high taxes just because they have no children at home.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 10:51:46 PM

wow, all i tried to show was that he wanted to compare his "total" taxes (instead of comparing fed to fed only) to that of a 16% tax payer multi millionaire and . . . oh well
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 10:50:59 PM

The next time you get a utility bill from your local government or the phone company or the gas company - look at all the fees adn taxes on the bill. Many times the fees and taxes and surcharges and special assessments etc. are close to half the cost of the bill.
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EZExit
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 10:09:23 PM

Shhhh! JD! That is how the government gets better than half of your money, without taxing you to death, by splitting the tax into pieces, a little here, a little there, a fair share over here. On top of that, many that are still paying taxes overpay each year, getting a refund that they view as manna from the government. Please leave those that live in ignorant bliss alone. Thank you.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 9:51:13 PM

I still pay social security, as well as state and federal taxes. That adds up to about 30%

Wait, now you're adding SST, state tax to your "fed tax" that you want to compare to a 16% fed tax bracket only?

the 28% Fed (only) Bracket is $142,700 – $217,450

when you compare a 30% fed tax bracket to a 16% fed tax bracket, and then you want to add SSt and State Tax to your fed - but not to the 16% payer,

thats like saying

someone pays 58% tax (computed by)
fed taxes of 28%
sales tax of 7%
state taxes of 15%
social security tax of 4.2%
gasoline tax of 8.5%
total taxes of 62.7%and you want to compare that to 16% fed only?

come on, you know better than to try that comparison
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johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:09:51 PM

I forgot one thing, my brother invested in a delivery company that a friend of his started several years ago. He ended up loaning the company even more over the years until the company became profitable. He even ended up driving routs to keep the company going for a while. He made a good return on his money in the end and after the company got up and profitable he sold out to his partner. He wouldn’t tell me what that did to his taxes that year but he did say that after thinking he was going to lose his money, the headaches and the tax hit he won’t be doing this again.
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johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 9:57:42 PM

I will tell you what is unfair. I made a little over $50,000 last year. I have five children and a stay at home wife that are dependents. One is in collage and two were under 18. I also had a home mortgage. That is my so called investment portfolio as one person put it. I paid $0.00 in federal income tax. My brother did a little better than I did. He is single and rents a house and no kids. He puts in over 70 hours a week and his days off consist of only 4 hours worth the meetings. He paid over $17,000 in federal income tax. That’s before local and state taxes get into his paycheck.

Now would someone explain how this is fair?
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 10:10:31 PM

jd some time back I heard that the state of Cali attempted to say to people who worked there for some part of their career and retired that they owed cali a part of there retirement based on the fact they lived there while they earned it. This idea was slapped down.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 9:39:57 PM

Unfair? You mean like me paying out about 30% in taxes, and billionaires paying 16% taxes? That sort of unfair?

Or how about billionaires getting companies (who are really PEOPLE) to speak for them through lobbyists, and using media sources unavailable to the average person to get tax breaks?

From our perspective, that amounts to taxation without representation for us.

Or how about the benefits of lower taxes if you sit on your butt and collect money off investments (made with inherited money, but pay a higher rate if you go out and bust your butt working for a salary?

Is THAT the unfair taxes we are talking about? Because I am ready to react strongly to all that.

-----------------------

seeing what you posted earlier on a thread of your personal health problems and expenses, losing your home, etc., I'd have to say that I doubt that you pay 30% in Federal taxes - it'd probably be more like 0% to 10% with all the deductions you should have had, are you really sure you pay 30% in fed taxes? If so, I'd have to say you're doing fairly well in/on the taxable amount figure then.
-

Here are the 2012 Federal tax brackets:

Tax Bracket Married Filing Jointly / Single
10% Bracket $0 – $17,400 / $0 – $8,700
15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700 / $8,700 – $35,350
25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700 / $35,350 – $85,650
28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450 / $85,650 – $178,650
33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350 / $178,650 – $388,350
35% Bracket Over $388,350 / Over $388,350
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 2:11:02 PM

what you earn belongs to ?
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 1:58:18 PM

the tax cycle
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gocatgo
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 12:25:54 PM

Lake, "everyone has to pay. GE not so much." Ah yes using the Bush tax tables and tax loop holes that were paid for with (re)election donations to congressmen.

owt, "too many people wanting hand outs" and some of these people are wearing high dollar 3 piece suits from corporate board rooms driving bmws.
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 12:24:03 PM

mj: "And they won't stop demanding more until there is nothing left to give."


That's why the only possible outcome is an economic meltdown; it's only a matter of when, not if. The takers now have to votes to make sure that spending isn't cut, or even that the rate of growth of spending is held in check. That leaves only one alternative, economic meltdown.


mudtoe
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MahopacJack
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 12:14:22 PM

>>We have to many people wanting hand-outs, that was proven in the last election.<<
***
Not according to those receiving the handouts. After all according to them, majority rules and the rights of the minority are ignored. And they won't stop demanding more until there is nothing left to give.
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owt
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 10:33:51 AM

We have to many people wanting hand-outs, that was proven in the last election.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 8:41:28 PM

ask some of the pros, when they play a ball game or football or tennis or whatever, in California, the state of cali considers that earned income in that state and they want their share. it's my understanding that they have state employees who specifically keep track of players who play sports in cali and how much they earn there - in order to tax them.

so said a sports figure today on a news program. he said he doesn't want to play anymore in california, he'd rather be benched or play sick.
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Lakepirate13
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 12:46:32 AM

mudtoe you are correct everyone has to pay. GE not so much.
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 10:56:24 PM

gocat: "mud, tax and "confiscate" are not the same."


Call it what you will as it makes no difference. The results will be the same no matter what label you attach to it.


mudtoe
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noseatbelt
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 4:28:16 PM

Has any of the tax the wealthy more to pay for ever more government spending, ever once said what a fair tax should be for the liberal hated wealthy?

Why do most liberals have a fit, when cutting spending is mentioned?
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michaelphoenix2
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 2:56:51 PM

Mudtoe---- "In fact, this country was founded to get away from unfair taxation."




It was about having to pay taxes without have any representation in parliament. Not about higher taxes.
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gocatgo
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 12:10:54 PM

mud, tax and "confiscate" are not the same. Wha, Wha for the long suffering wealthiest Americans. Going back to the tax tables of Clinton during one of the best economies is hardly sticking it to wealthy. "Money safely hidden" and cons on the outside will still be making excuses for tax shelters. How heart warming. Kerry a "hypocrite" so wealthy dems deserve different treatment in your eyes? Didn't Kerry vote to raise taxes on himself?

So many bleeding heart belly aching complainers crying about Cal that don't even live there, amazing.
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johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 8:11:47 PM

The people who like the idea of sock it to the rich can claim that people won’t leave all they want. But it is already happening.

Tiger Woods; “Woods — who now resides in Florida, where no state income tax exists — stated, “I moved out of here [California] back in ’96 for that reason,” leaving no questions of where he stands on the issue.”
-
[L=http://www.policymic.com/articles/23933/text deleted Woods Cites High Taxes For Leaving California[/L]
-
Forbes noted that Comcast shut down its Northern California call centers this year, citing “the high cost of doing business in California.” Some 1,000 workers lost their jobs.
Campbell’s Soup, which padlocked its Sacramento factory, displacing some 700 workers. The company decided to move production to Texas, North Carolina and even Ohio of all places.

Employees at Chevron’s San Ramon corporate headquarters received an unexpected email yesterday. It notified them that a quarter of their jobs are being moved from California to Texas.
-
California’s Largest Corporation is Headed for the Exit
-
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 8:05:21 PM

101Speedster: "When the rich move away from California, who does California's high tax rates hurt?"

flyboyUT: "Are you serious about asking this Speedy?"

Probably a little sarcastic. It does make me think of what happened in places like the UK and other European countries that have raised their taxes to an unreasonable level.

In fact, this country was founded to get away from unfair taxation.
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 7:57:22 PM

flyboy: "Mudtoe - you want to know how that will work out - watch John Kerry. "


ROFL! He's definitely one of the first hypocrites that comes to mind when I think about what the left says they stand for versus who they vote into office.


mudtoe
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 7:46:08 PM

"You are correct though, I can't justify Washington giving away any money, not even the 8.7 billion they gave Arizona of money they don't have."

If you can't justify Washington giving away money, how can you justify Arizona taking it?
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PappaVanTwee
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 7:38:42 PM

>>>
I know you were trying originally to give the federal government credit for a balanced Arizona budget.
<<<

I was, although on further review, while you have a surplus, you have a lot of debt. From my link on the AZ budget:

-----
Arizona has a total state debt of approximately $56,034,326,000, when calculated by adding the total of outstanding official debt, pension and other post-employment benefits (OPEB) liabilities, Unemployment Trust Fund loans, and 2013 budget gap.
-----

On top of that, you still get about half of your state budget in federal funds yearly:

-----
The state got $2.3 billion from the Department of Health and Human Services, most of which supported the state Medicaid program, the Arizona Health Cost Containment System, in 2010 and 2011.

Arizona got another $2.6 billion from the Department of Education, some of which simply kept teachers employed who would have been cut along with the state budget.
-----

But if it makes you feel better, you guys are doing swell!

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johnnyg1200
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 7:37:39 PM

Between the gun laws, the regulation and the taxes you couldn’t pay me enough to live in California.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 6:03:58 PM

Mudtoe - you want to know how that will work out - watch John Kerry.
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 4:20:04 PM

gocat: "End of story."


Not quite, but you wish. You all never learn that the wealthy won't just sit there and let you just confiscate what they worked for. The vote with your feet part and the hide it part are just beginning. In the end it's the takers who will lose because when the government can no longer pay for their freebies and the whole thing comes crashing down. Afterward the wealthy will still be there with their money safely hidden; and among those wealthy will be the very democrat politicians that the takers elected to office in the first place, ostensibly to screw the rich of which they are a part. We can all guess how that conflict of interest will work out :)


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/23/2013 4:22:30 PM EST]
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gocatgo
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 3:36:50 PM

"People will react to unfair taxation". That is exactly why taxes for the wealthiest Americans were raised. End of story.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 3:30:53 PM

But But But KG - no one ever takes steps to reduce their taxes do they???

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KansasGunman
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 3:18:41 PM

Topic: Topic: People will react to unfair taxation

.....

Not only will they but rather, they are and will continue doing so as in our case where we work with a long term high quality private CPA accounting Firm and Tax Attorney who rather hates the IRS with a passion and loves challenging them at every turn in the road.

We are and will continue paying "our fair share" as we define "fair" by taking maximum advantage of virtually every legal Tax loophole, off shore banking and trust where the kids have taken ownership of all property/assets years ago, completely eliminating/negating any down the road attempts for money grabs from the Govt on inheritance change or otherwise.



[Edited by: KansasGunman at 1/23/2013 3:23:37 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 2:08:55 PM

Fly: <<<"The simple answer is if enough leave or figure another way to avoid paying the taxes how will you fund the expenditures the rest of the folks there demand?">>>

************

More "stimulus" cash! :)
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 1:38:00 PM

Who does it hurt? Are you serious about asking this Speedy?

Well I will assume you are serious.

The simple answer is if enough leave or figure another way to avoid paying the taxes how will you fund the expenditures the rest of the folks there demand?
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 1:35:35 PM

When the rich move away from California, who does California's high tax rates hurt?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 1:33:51 PM

Deny it all you want --- but its true - people will relocate if the tax and regulatory burden get higher than they are willing to accept
.
>>>From small businessmen in San Diego to vintners in Napa Valley, top-earning Californians reeling from a new state income tax are preparing to pack up and bail out.

"If you have excessive regulations and excessive tax, that's just not where you want to be," said Peter Farrell, president of ResMed a medical-device maker in San Diego that employs 600 workers and is considering moving its offices out of state. "California is unfriendly. It's become an unfriendly business environment."

One possibility is Texas, where the personal income-tax rate is zero, compared to 13.3 percent for top California earners.

Another San Diego-based company, Fallbrook Technologies, a maker of variable speed transmissions, recently announced it is leaving for Texas.

Nevada tax accountant George Ashley said he's received more than 100 inquiries from higher-earning Californians about the possible tax advantages and feasibility of relocating to a state with lower taxes.

"We have had a 10-fold increase from various parts of California, particularly Los Angeles and the Bay Area where many people are seeking a way to leave the state," said Ashley, who lives just over the California state line in Lake Tahoe, Nev.. "They are fed up with the situation and they feel like they are being unfairly treated."<<<

Now before some proggie bleats out 'fine let them go, we didnt want them anyway' etc. understand these are the very people who pay the majority of the taxes. The ones who refuse to move or cant move are the ones who receive more than they pay.

Doesnt look good for the long run. Will the entire state go the way of the towns in it that have declared bankruptcy?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 12:29:42 PM

Looks like Phil aint the only golfer who doesnt like getting taxed to death.
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>>>During a press conference Tuesday, golf legend Tiger Woods said he moved to Florida in 1996 because of California’s high tax rates. The comments came after fellow golfer Phil Mickelson hinted Sunday that he might leave the Golden State — or perhaps even move out of the U.S. completely — because of income tax increases.<<<

Yes I guess people do react to high taxes. Unintended consequences are real it seems........

Whooopsie -- reality hurts......
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>>>California has lost billions of dollars in revenue in recent years as businesses and residents flee the state, in part because other states have a more favorable business climate.

According to one estimate, 254 businesses across a variety of industries moved all or some of their jobs out of state last year.

California has both the highest state deficit in the country and the highest personal income tax.

Silicon Valley, a unique business center thought to be particularly resilient to economic downturn, has also responded to the poor business conditions. In 2005, for example, Intel decided to build a multi-billion dollar chip-making facility in Arizona because of the state’s favorable corporate income tax system.

Utah and Texas have stolen skilled technology workers from California-based companies like Oracle, Adobe and Apple.<<<

Ol Moonbeam and his proggie cohorts just dont seems to wish to see the tide going out. They keep on trying to ring up more speed on the engines when the ship is high and dry...
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 11:06:11 PM

Pax, read the original link I posted below...

Lean Arizona budgets may be new norm

It speaks to how Arizona leaned out its budget (and it actually *has* a budget too), and also mentions how the democratic Arizona legislators wan't so badly to spend the surplus as fast as they can.

<<<"since the general state budget is ~$8 billion, how can you justify receiving a full year's budget in stimulus money? Not by saying you only got 2% of the stimulus, that's for sure.">>>

No. We received barely more than 1%, and I know you were trying originally to give the federal government credit for a balanced Arizona budget. You are correct though, I can't justify Washington giving away any money, not even the 8.7 billion they gave Arizona of money they don't have. Sounds like you feel that the federal government isn't spending money wisely. Welcome to the fiscally conservative side of the tracks!

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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 10:50:21 PM

Marty: <<<"Versus 98% of it going to everyone else. Maybe AZ should have held out for its full 2%.">>>

**********

or, maybe Washington should have not given away cash it didn't have, and work on a *budget*. I am confident that the economy would have been growing by now, with a more optimistic future, instead of uncertainty, and the debt weight that is already now unmanageable.
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PappaVanTwee
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 10:48:50 PM

EZ, from your link:

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The state got $2.3 billion from the Department of Health and Human Services, most of which supported the state Medicaid program, the Arizona Health Cost Containment System, in 2010 and 2011.

Arizona got another $2.6 billion from the Department of Education, some of which simply kept teachers employed who would have been cut along with the state budget.
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Care to explain that?

Arizona state budget

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Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed the state's $8.6 billion FY2013 budget into law on May 7, 2012. [1] When accounting for both the general fund and non-general fund monies, the state’s “all funds” budget is $27.8 billion.[2]

Arizona operates on an annual budget cycle. Its fiscal year begins July 1, and it is in FY2013.

Arizona has a total state debt of approximately $56,034,326,000, when calculated by adding the total of outstanding official debt, pension and other post-employment benefits (OPEB) liabilities, Unemployment Trust Fund loans, and 2013 budget gap.[3] That figure is down from the prior year's debt total of $59,220,240,000.[4]

Arizona's total state debt per capita is $8,643.93.[5]
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So, where's the surplus? And since the general state budget is ~$8 billion, how can you justify receiving a full year's budget in stimulus money? Not by saying you only got 2% of the stimulus, that's for sure.
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