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Author Topic: Abortion is a "bully" subject Back to Topics
YDraigGoch

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Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 17, 2013 6:45:55 PM

63% of the people do NOT want Roe v Wade overturned

Yet the 29% who say they want it overturned seem to be prevailing. Why?

Just like on a grade school playground, a few really loud and vicious bullies can terrify the rest into submission. If America won’t stand up the bullies in the Catholic church, or the bullies in the Tea Party, what will we do when the bullies from Al Qaeda start trying to push us around?

Maybe some of the 63% should back off their anti gun stance.

Just in case.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:41:02 AM

I don't recall Sebelius getting involved in this issue, but she was right in doing so.
No, my stand is not so much on morality as it is on legality.

Again, you fail to get my point.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 5:06:07 PM

>>My point, Nick, which you seem to have missed, is that there are people in powerful positions who seem to have taken it upon themselves to enable girls to terminate or prevent a pregnancy without any sort of parental or medical supervision.<<

It's hard to make a point, I75, when it's based on invalid facts, which is exactly what you did. Also, were you this upset when Kathleen Sebelius "took it upon herself" to overrule the FDA when they said it was safe to sell Plan B over the counter?

By the time a girl needs Plan B, "parental authority and responsibility" has already been subverted, and not by any "powerful people". Your arguments are completely devoid of fact (in fact, you've made multiple claims that are disingenuous, of not outright false) and are based only on emotion (you know, the kind of crap you righties are always falsely claiming about liberals). It's disgusting, but not unexpected from those who want to force their so-called morality on others.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 12:00:31 PM

My point, Nick, which you seem to have missed, is that there are people in powerful positions who seem to have taken it upon themselves to enable girls to terminate or prevent a pregnancy without any sort of parental or medical supervision. These people (liberals, I guarantee you) are going to great lengths to enable girls to keep secret their sexual activity. Having a drug like this available could offer a false protection to girls. As great a danger as becoming pregnant is the danger of STDs.
Attempts by powerful people, such as this judge, subvert what is left of parental authority and responsibility.

It's disgusting.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:59:06 AM

In order to choose life one must HAVE a choice. And CHOICE is the one thing the anti-abortion bullies want to TAKE AWAY.
---------------------------------------

I thought this was well worth repeating!!!

--
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:28:51 AM

"Heck, you need to be 18 to buy cold medicine. Why is that? Because even cold medicine could be potentially dangerous, if a person (child) were to have a reaction to it. "

Yea, irony is in most states that these "girls" can buy over the counter abortion medication, they can't even get married without parental or court approval...
* Iowa age limit is 18: Applicants 16 or 17 years of age need to have parental consent. Under 16 no marriage...

* Illinois: If you are 16 or 17 years of age, you will have to provide a copy of your birth certificate along with some other sort of identification showing your date of birth. You will also need to have the sworn consent from each parent, each legal guardian or a judge - in person - before the county clerk at the time of application. Your parents or guardians will need to provide identification like a driver's license, state identification card, Illinois Department of Public Aid card, or passport. If your parent is deceased, you will need to show a death certificate or proof of guardianship, or a court order waiving consent. A legal guardian will also need to show a certified copy of the guardianship papers. If you are under sixteen (16) years of age, you cannot get married in Illinois.

* Maryland - age limit is 18. Parental consent is needed if under 18 years of age. If you are between 16-18 years of age, one of your parents or guardian must be with you and provide written consent. If you are under 16 years of age, you will need both the written consent of your custodial parent or guardian and the written approval of a judge of the Orphans' Court Division of the Court of Common Pleas. If you are under 18, pregnant or have a child, and show a certificate from a licensed physician stating you are pregnant or have had a child, the parental consent requirement may be waived. (Court approoval...)

*Alabama - age limit is 18 - parenatal approoval if either is under that age. Individuals under the age of 14 may not marry.
"The actual fda release " Also states, at the beginning of the release...

Nickhammer, press release states:

"The following information is from United States post-marketing reports (i.e., not from a clinical trial) received by FDA of adverse events that occurred among patients who had taken mifepristone for medical termination of pregnancy."

So, a marketing report... so that would mean that this is from the drug company... which is actually made in China, but distributed in the USA by Danco Laboratories. Not much info for Danco...

[Edited by: reb4 at 4/6/2013 11:30:14 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 6:20:57 PM

AFSNCO - "The update reveals that there have been at least 14 deaths associated with use of the abortion drugs in the U.S. The FDA also indicated it knew of another five outside the U.S."

Besides what NickHammer stated, I'd want to know over how many years these deaths took place. Aspirin typically causes at least 50 deaths a year. Some sources attribute thousands of deaths each year from sudden bleeding to aspirin.

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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 4:28:30 PM

>>Yep, like that. Thanks for unearthing the facts.<<

Facts, or the NationalRightToLife.org's slant on what was actually written in the FDA's report? Like the first one AF quoted:

"The update reveals that there have been at least 14 deaths associated with use of the abortion drugs in the U.S."

Sorry, they were not "associated with the use of the abortion drugs". In fact, the actual FDA release, which NationalRightToLife.org conveniently didn't link to (gee, I wonder why?), specifically states, "These events cannot with certainty be causally attributed to mifepristone because of information gaps about patient health status, clinical management of the patient, concurrent drug use and other possible medical or surgical treatments" and, of the 14 reported fatalities, "there was one
case each of substance abuse/drug overdose, methadone overdose, suspected homicide, and a delayed onset of toxic shock-like syndrome, and there
were two cases of ruptured ectopic pregnancy." Hmm...hard to blame the drugs for those.

Of course, all that is a moot point, anyway. RU-486 is NOT the morning-after pill, and is NOT what the case is about. The judge ruled on the levonorgestrel pill, more commonly known as Plan B One-Step, which prevents pregnancy. The RU-486 (mifepristone) terminates a pregnancy.
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 1:41:10 PM

Yep, like that. Thanks for unearthing the facts. FDA report?
Who will assail that?

But remember, judicial activism is a figment of the infertile conservative imagination.
Take two valiums and don't cal me in the morning.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 1:15:50 PM

I75...do you mean like this?

"The update reveals that there have been at least 14 deaths associated with use of the abortion drugs in the U.S. The FDA also indicated it knew of another five outside the U.S.

The FDA also reported that all told there had been 2,207 cases of “adverse events” reported to the FDA from the time of the abortifacient’s approval in September of 2000 through the end of April, 2011. Of those, 612 had been hospitalized.

The hospitalizations included most of the 58 women who had suffered from ectopic pregnancy, the 339 who had bled so badly they required transfusions, and 256 women who had experienced infections. Forty eight were classified as “severe.” For an infection to be classified as severe, it meant death or hospitalization for 2-3 days, IV antibiotics for at least 24 hours, total antibiotic usage for at least 3 days, or other lab or case data that was indicative of such an infection."
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I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 5, 2013 12:59:55 PM

A "Bully" subject - yes it is. It seems that everyone wants to have their way on this subject, tell other people how to live their lives (or END one) and order their affairs.

Women need freedom of choice! we are told repeatedly.
Well, all that posturing must have gotten to this judge:
Fed Judge Orders Morning-After Pill Be Available to Women and Girls of All Ages
That's right, no doctor's prescription needed, no parental consent for girls to go buy it over the counter.
Heck, you need to be 18 to buy cold medicine. Why is that? Because even cold medicine could be potentially dangerous, if a person (child) were to have a reaction to it.

This judge should be arrested and charged with practicing medicine without a license, and if a child takes the RU-486 pill and suffers life-threatening complication, the judge should be charged with child endangerment. Seriously.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 11:19:57 PM

Thats food for thought
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 10:27:33 PM

sgm4law said: "That does not happen."

--It sure as Shineola does happen. Tell me, why is it when the Republicans ask the Democrats to make cuts, they won't make them? Obama is trying to do this very thing once again. In these budget negotiations the pattern seems to be 1) The Dems blame the Reps and call them obstructionist. 2) The Reps compromise on tax increases. 3) The Dems promise that they will capitulate on spending cuts. 4) The deal goes through with the tax increases. 5) The Dems backtrack on the spending cuts, particularly as relates to social welfare programs. And if this isn't happening, then why all of a sudden are we spending more on social welfare? Why haven't cuts been made? After all, taxes are going up. Look at your own paycheck.
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cymk
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 2:17:54 PM

Ydraig, I was thinking more the Spanish inquisition and the numerous missionaries and conquests where "native" peoples were forced to convert to a new religion, sometime under pain of death.

And to be perfectly clear I'm all for abortion rights; as I have stated many times in other threads, I don't have the right tell a woman what happens to her uterus.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 7:51:45 PM

>> you know the Catholic church has a long history of bullying others around and forcing thier views on others. <<Not to MY people, they don't. :o)

I'm Welsh. Britain started putting an end to the Catholic domminance with Henry II (think the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Beckett)

We finished it off with Henry VIII. Hey, sometimes it takes a tyrant to stop a tyrant.

But this time frame ties in with abortion. You see, until the clashes between Protestants and Catholics, abortion never appeared in any document. They had poisons, and dangerous scraping methods back then too. No one said anything. Women died.

But then both churches had the idea that if they could simply out-produce the other side, their view would become the world view. So stopping the entry of another Catholic, or another Protestant into the world became a sin against God.

Thus began today's abortion issue.

By the way, at the time of Jesus of Nazareth, an abortion was the killing of a newborn before some stated time, usually, the sunset of the day the child was born. Today, that is infanticide. Yet there is no mention of it in the Bible. Dis Jesus accidentally forget to mention that? His deciples too?

The idea that abortion is murder is simply YOUR opinion! Others have a different opinion. YOU do not have the right, at least in in America, to force your OPINIONS on other people. And since no one is forcing anyone to have abortions, the bullying is ENTIRELY on the side of the anti abortion people.

Nothing hard to figure out here.
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cymk
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 1:46:14 PM

P>>>Anyone that disagrees with your vision for the country is a "bully"?<<<

According to the Pew poll, 63% of respondents agree with Ydraig, that abortion should be kept legal. He is also commenting on how a large number of that 63% is also advocating for banning guns.

If you have spent any amount of time in history class, you know the Catholic church has a long history of bullying others around and forcing thier views on others.

[Edited by: cymk at 1/24/2013 1:46:36 PM EST]
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 1:35:49 PM


"If America won’t stand up the bullies in the Catholic church, or the bullies in the Tea Party, what will we do when the bullies from Al Qaeda start trying to push us around?"

Progressives that want to force churches to fund abortion, ram Obamacare down the throats of an unwilling public, try to shut down civil society in their OWS orgies, and shred the Constitution which they find too binding for their liking - now have the temerity to call the Church and the Tea Party "bullies"?

Anyone that disagrees with your vision for the country is a "bully"?

The hubris on the left is breath-taking.

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cymk
All-Star Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 1:34:03 PM

Here is an interactive map that shows the availability of abortion clinics to the women living in the US. It also shows what legislative tactics have been used to limit access to clinics.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2013 1:03:17 PM

<<What of fools who want to give away every dollar taken in by tax to welfare, rather than expecting folks to actually work if they are at all able-bodied?>>

That does not happen.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 10:00:56 PM

sgm4law predictably said: "There are people doing just that. It's too bad one has to have rights vindicated in court, over and over, because people who lose on the law just decide they can do what they want. It seems to be a Republican failing."

--Yes, and what say you of San Francisco, repeatedly banning all guns in the city, only to be sued over and over again to tell them that's unconstitutional? What of fools who want to give away every dollar taken in by tax to welfare, rather than expecting folks to actually work if they are at all able-bodied? It seems to me yet another Democrat failing gone awry and off the deep end.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 8:56:40 PM

Another article on the pol

28% for Always legal
18% for never legal
52% for sometimes legal (in other words, the same thing Roe v Wade says)

Yet the 18% are making so much angry, threatening noise that some are cowed into silence. And the kids don't even know what the Supemes said.

Maybe they think that Roe vs Wade are two ways to cross a river. :o)
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 8:13:10 AM

Isn't it amazing how the same conservatives who argue so vehemently against regulations have used them to get there way on this issue?

MS Gov has bragged that they have done so. He's proud of his new regulations.

And oblivious to the economic impact of unwanted children, abandoned college educations, increased costs to the State (just look at Texas on that one!) and eventual increased taxes for all of us to pay for his intransigence.
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Michiganian
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 6:35:47 AM

With at least four more years of a Democrat in the White House, the Federal courts will move more and more to the center and maybe left.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 10:47:51 PM

"Then, councillor, why don't you go fight it out in court?"

There are people doing just that. It's too bad one has to have rights vindicated in court, over and over, because people who lose on the law just decide they can do what they want. It seems to be a Republican failing.

Immigration law, gun regulations, reproductive rights, etc.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 9:49:48 PM

sgm said: "How much of a "right" is it when the providers in the state are hounded for providing this one service to such a degree that they cannot get admitting privileges at a hospital.."

--Then, councillor, why don't you go fight it out in court? It would seem to me that if the purpose of these bogus rules is found to be forcing someone's morality on the community, or promoting a religious belief, then the law will be tossed out on it's ear.. much like "intelligent design" was.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 8:35:22 PM

They sneak around behind your back to push their agenda.

Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro Choice America, said most citizens are not demanding their elected officials push for new abortion restrictions.

"A lot of these anti-choice politicians don't run on the issue," Keenan said in an interview Tuesday with The Associated Press. "They run on jobs, or they run on the economy. And then they show up in these state legislatures, and they begin to advance very anti-choice legislation."

Like I said, bullies are not famous for facing their opponents openly. Hitting from behind is their style. Always was.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 4:19:51 PM

Here is a nice description of laws and legal actions taken against women who were pregnant by the anti-abortion bullies.

From their abstract: "In this article we report on 413 cases from 1973 to 2005 in which a woman’s pregnancy was a necessary factor leading to attempted and actual deprivations of a woman’s physical liberty. First, we describe key characteristics of the women and the cases, including socioeconomic status and race. Second, we investigate the legal claims made to justify the arrests, detentions, and forced interventions. Third, we explore the role played by health care providers. We conclude by discussing the implications of our findings and the likely impact of personhood measures on pregnant women’s liberty and on maternal, fetal, and child health."
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2013 5:45:31 PM

This is just like the gay marriage thing. A very LOUD and angry bunch of people are saying that their god is against it. So, if you are not against it, you are against God!

It's a scare tactic that works on a lot of people.

The National Socialist Party in 1933 Germany never had more that 38% of the Reichstag, yet they were able to intimidate the rest of the country. By bullying, intimidation, calling the opposition out as traitors and cowards, they took over.

Before someone blows a fuse, I'm not comparing the anti abortionists to the Nazis. But their tactics are the same, and that IS a valid comparison. They call people murderers. No one wants to be called that, so people simply shut up, and meekly acquiesce.

That is the way this minority wins battles. Intimidation, loud rage, and outright bullying. How sad.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2013 3:09:31 PM

"It seems to me the effect is exactly ZERO at this point."

How much of a "right" is it when the providers in the state are hounded for providing this one service to such a degree that they cannot get admitting privileges at a hospital, and admitting privileges at a hospital--any hospital--are required for a doctor to perform abortions? There are no more abortions happening in Mississippi. The governor brags that he's made this possible.

It's a de facto ban.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2013 12:27:15 PM

Gocatgo - I think you need to re-read my posts for some understanding. I also agree with your position. For both sides to exist, the right has to be kept legal. Should it be absolute? Absolutely not. And again, the laws that are already on the books are plenty restrictive enough, IMHO.

sgm4law said: "(they do have abortion bans on the state law books in several states in case Roe is overruled)"

-- I doubt it will happen. But then again, a minority of states already had such laws on the books that still exist, but aren't enforceable. So tell me how this has an effect on what's going on right now. It seems to me the effect is exactly ZERO at this point. And again, I agree - it's a matter of personal choice and individual morality. Now, enforcing undue clinical regs is another matter. And I'm surprised that this cannot be challenged and defeated in court.

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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2013 12:14:31 PM

Ac-, "attack on abortion rights seems to me largely mythical"? You can't think of any politicians or organizations on the right that are on record against Roe vs Wade?

If you don't believe in abortion Don't get one.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2013 12:09:23 PM

They're working on it in Virginia, where clinic regs will force the shutdown of many clinics. And such regulations are not imposed on any other type of outpatient clinic, before you say they are doing it for good medical reason. It is just to stop abortions.

Just ask any of the regulars on this board who are loudly and proudly antiabortion--they'll tell you these are great steps in the right direction. And then they'll go complain about their constitutional rights being infringed in other ways, in other threads.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2013 12:06:02 PM

<--Now understand, sgm, I'm on your side more than you might guess. As a matter of personal freedom and individual rights, I'm perfectly OK with abortion on demand. From a "moral" standpoint, I would say that the laws that we already have provide a high enough fence around this medical procedure. No argument.>

I know.

<It seems to me that this "attack on abortion rights" seems to me largely mythical... You claim anti-abortion kooks are making headway? Other than shooting a few docs and protesting their homes and clinics, what legal headway have they made in this? In what states have they, theoretically, made abortion illegal?>

It's the difference between something being legal de jure versus de facto. Even though no one has passed a law that is enforced (they do have abortion bans on the state law books in several states in case Roe is overruled), they have made obtaining an abortion impossible in large areas of the country. The last abortion clinic in Mississippi is being regulated out of existence. The right to an abortion in a state where abortion providers are hounded and regulated out of business is not a right. It is a figment of the imagination.

Mississippi's only abortion clinic may be shut down.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2013 12:00:22 PM

sgm4law said: "They have been making a concerted 50-state-wide attack on abortion rights for 40 years, and they have been making more and more headway in the past few. There are a few states in the heartland and the Deep South where they have effectively eliminated the right. For sure, in California, where you are, the right is going to continue to exist. But if you're a poor woman in Mississippi or Nebraska or other states, if you are pregnant, that's it. You no longer have a choice."

--Now understand, sgm, I'm on your side more than you might guess. As a matter of personal freedom and individual rights, I'm perfectly OK with abortion on demand. From a "moral" standpoint, I would say that the laws that we already have provide a high enough fence around this medical procedure. No argument.

It seems to me that this "attack on abortion rights" seems to me largely mythical. After all, if you were poor, you could "ride the dog" (Greyhound) over the line to the next state where you could get one. A woman could also give up her child for adoption if she's unequipped to handle motherhood. Again, you can pass any law you want in Mississippi or Nebraska. Federal law, as you well know, trumps state laws where the two are in conflict. And we've had some very conservative SCOTUS. None of them have consented to hear a re-hearing of Roe v. Wade. It would seem the matter was settled, in, what? 1968? You claim anti-abortion kooks are making headway? Other than shooting a few docs and protesting their homes and clinics, what legal headway have they made in this? In what states have they, theoretically, made abortion illegal? I grant you that the partial birth being made illegal was a problem, as it is only used on stillborns. It likely still is, without anyone telling.

Now, what else is a problem - well, look at all the amounts of money spent by both sides, in court, trying to "prove" their side has the moral high ground. If they wanted to reduce the number of abortions, they could give their court fights up now, and spend money on both contraception AND education. That would reduce (significantly) the number of abortions in America.


[Edited by: AC-302 at 1/19/2013 12:03:21 PM EST]
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2013 8:38:42 AM

<I haven't found that to be the case. What President has made Roe v. Wade illegal so far? Congress did pass a "partial birth abortion" law. And I also believe that was a misguided effort. So far, nobody's been able to make abortion illegal. But let's say R v W were overturned tomorrow... so what?>

They have been making a concerted 50-state-wide attack on abortion rights for 40 years, and they have been making more and more headway in the past few. There are a few states in the heartland and the Deep South where they have effectively eliminated the right. For sure, in California, where you are, the right is going to continue to exist. But if you're a poor woman in Mississippi or Nebraska or other states, if you are pregnant, that's it. You no longer have a choice.

[Edited by: sgm4law at 1/19/2013 8:39:08 AM EST]
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 10:08:33 PM

Ydraig insists: "Yet the 29% who say they want it overturned seem to be prevailing. Why?"

-- I haven't found that to be the case. What President has made Roe v. Wade illegal so far? Congress did pass a "partial birth abortion" law. And I also believe that was a misguided effort. So far, nobody's been able to make abortion illegal. But let's say R v W were overturned tomorrow... so what?
Abortion was legal before that in like 38 states. That wouldn't change.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 6:04:00 PM

I'm shocked, shocked, I tell you, that 63% of Americans think it's none of their business what happens when a woman and her doctor talk about what she wants to do about her pregnancy.

Who knew we were a nation of murderers and aiders and abettors of murder?
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 5:22:33 PM

In these parts they got a specialty license plate approved. That plate says "Choose Life" I always thought it was funny. In order to choose life one must HAVE a choice. And CHOICE is the one thing the anti-abortion bullies want to TAKE AWAY.

These plates generate money. Lots of it. And what is done with that money? They buy billboard ads displayed along the interstate. Lots of them. Sometimes they are seen one after another. Who voted for that anyway? The billboard companies?

One of them shows a cute and cuddly already-born baby with a big smile and says "Pregnant? There is a heartbeat at 18 days." Now, excuse me, but this is false advertising. The picture they show is not an 18 day old embryo. If they showed that few would even recognize it. An 18 day old human embryo looks a bit like a tadpole.

And it is disputable if there is a heartbeat at 18 days. Depends on who you ask.

I'll just continue my support for the ACLU, thanks.


[Edited by: SemiSteve at 1/18/2013 5:24:00 PM EST]
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

Posts:19,067
Points:3,142,860
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 12:52:09 PM

As one who believes in Pro Choice, you have my undying support to not get an abortion. If you are a man, be glad you don't have to make that decision and live with the consequences. The older I get the easier I find it to not give advice to a woman that has not asked for it. Sadly that does not work for the tearful con pro fetus crowd that insist on imposing their beliefs on others. Cons quickly wipe away the tears after the births of poor children that need welfare. Suddenly the pain to the conscience goes to their wallet.

If you are against abortion, Don't get one.
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cymk
All-Star Author Detroit

Posts:635
Points:313,860
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 12:09:32 PM

Here are the full poll results, if anyone wants them. It doesn't seem to matter; republican or democrat, catholic or protestant, young or old, college grad or high school drop out; they all want abortion rights preserved.
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Michiganian
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:6,224
Points:1,233,265
Joined:Jun 2004
Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 6:52:44 AM

That explains what happened with Senate races the GOP had hoped to win in Missouri and Indiana. If the Christian Taliban win the primaries, they lose in the statewide general elections. See what I mean?

[Edited by: Michiganian at 1/18/2013 6:55:38 AM EST]
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