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michaelphoenix2 All-Star Author Tucson Posts:678 Points:9,320 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 5:30:55 PM Ignore michaelphoenix2 Report Abuse Simple question just to kind of get a feel for how many people here own one. Also if you would identify yourself as a Liberal, Conservative, or Independent. As for me ---- liberal, i have 1 weapon a colt that i got from my grandfather that belonged to his father. I have no interest in going out to actually go out and buy a new one. I keep it locked in a safety deposit box at the bank. I'm personally not a fan of guns but I wont deny someone the right to go out and buy one. Not sure if that makes me a gun owner of merely the caretaker of a family heirloom. I may not like guns but I would never sell or get rid of that colt. [Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 1/9/2013 5:31:24 PM EST]

michaelphoenix2

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Tucson

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 5:30:55 PM

Ignore michaelphoenix2 Report Abuse

Simple question just to kind of get a feel for how many people here own one.

Also if you would identify yourself as a Liberal, Conservative, or Independent.
As for me ---- liberal, i have 1 weapon a colt that i got from my grandfather that belonged to his father. I have no interest in going out to actually go out and buy a new one. I keep it locked in a safety deposit box at the bank. I'm personally not a fan of guns but I wont deny someone the right to go out and buy one.

Not sure if that makes me a gun owner of merely the caretaker of a family heirloom. I may not like guns but I would never sell or get rid of that colt.

[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 1/9/2013 5:31:24 PM EST]

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Happyherman Champion Author Calgary Posts:18,878 Points:1,123,500 Joined:Apr 2002	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 11:38:34 PM Ignore Happyherman Report Abuse Nope, no need.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,841 Points:1,197,915 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 11:29:31 PM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse One of the new guns making it's debut at the Shot Show was: a new rifle from Savage made for the new .17 Super Magnum RIMFIRE. You may not have heard of this cartridge yet, but it shoots a 20 grain bullet at about 3,000 feet per second, at .17 caliber of course. This means fairly flat shooting at devastating velocities out to 300 yards and beyond. What makes this particular gun special is that it is from Savage, the leader in out of the box accuracy in bolt guns. They have incorporated several centerfire bolt gun features into this rimfire rifle. What I like about this is, with the price of ammo double or triple in cost the past 2-3 weeks, this rim fire will be less expensive to shoot for plinking or shooting prarie dogs, crows or tin cans - just a fun gun to go shoot with less expensive ammo. I saw a video of wild boar hunting with this rifle, and also other large game, it was an impressive video on this new rifle.
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:26,568 Points:2,900,595 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 10:44:29 PM Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse In Illinois, it most certainly could be. To get your gun or ammo, you have to have something called a FOID card. I wonder if those records are public?
HEDGEHOGS All-Star Author Illinois Posts:625 Points:16,940 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 10:10:22 AM Ignore HEDGEHOGS Report Abuse if i am, will it be published in the newspaper?
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,841 Points:1,197,915 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 8:21:11 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse this story has circulated around as factual since 1999, however, it's just a story, but - has some merit right now: - General Cosgrove was interviewed on the radio recently. Read his reply to the lady who interviewed him concerning guns and children. Regardless of how you feel about gun laws you have to love this! This is one of the best comeback lines of all time. In a portion of an ABC radio interview between a female broadcaster and General Cosgrove who was about to sponsor a Boy Scout Troop visiting his military Headquarters. ... FEMALE INTERVIEWER: So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base? GENERAL COSGROVE:! We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it? GENERAL COSGROVE: I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children? GENERAL COSGROVE: I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm. FEMALE INTERVIEWER: But you're equipping them to become violent killers. GENERAL COSGROVE: Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you? The radiocast went silent for 46 seconds and when it returned, this interview was over.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 4:15:28 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse Oh I am well aware of all the SAAMI accepted hot varmit rounds out there.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,841 Points:1,197,915 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 10:23:09 PM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse see you at the 26th annual shot show, it's not open to the public, so if you don't have an invite or a ticket, i guess i wont see you there
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,817 Points:1,010,560 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 9:37:25 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Oilpan that military 223 stuff is a pipsqueak compared to a regular varmint cartridge. I used to have fun showing people what velocity could do for ya. We would get some 4 inch diameter 1/4 inch steel plate discs and hang them up with a couple of pieces of 8 lb fishing line. Then shoot them with a bolt action 223 shooting standard ball ammo/ it would put a dent in it and of course break it loose from the string. A 22-250 with a standard handload for varmints with a Sierra 52 gr HPBT at about 3850 fps will punch a approx 1/3 inch hole in it and of course break the strings. Take a higher speed rifle like a 220 Swift and the hole is larger. I was told that a 220 Swift with a hot load in 52gr HPBT will punch through a 1/2 inch plate of mild steel. Never tired it myself but once we shot some metal silhouette targets at a range with my 25-06 and used some fairly hot 87 gn loads and the folks how ran the range got pretty testy because we were punching holes in their steel targets at 300 yds range. I wish I was still building good guns and shooting. This bloomin old age stuff aint all its cracked up to be. Sure wasn't fun to give away or sell all my stuff. There are times I wish I would have kept some of it - like my old M97 Win pump. But I have no need for it or any other guns now. [Edited by: flyboyUT at 1/15/2013 9:44:25 PM EST]
Lucchese Champion Author Oakland Posts:3,135 Points:129,015 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 9:35:28 PM Ignore Lucchese Report Abuse Thank you Brother, I'll remember not to try it ... <g>
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 9:28:38 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse At those speeds I would think a lead bullet would just come apart going down the barrel and as it left the muzzle.
Lucchese Champion Author Oakland Posts:3,135 Points:129,015 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 9:26:30 PM Ignore Lucchese Report Abuse OilPan >> ".. problem with Lead bullets is as you approach 2000fps barrel leading becomes extreme .." Right, have never seen lead bullets available for my rifle. Muzzle velocity 3175fps with 140gr, or 3110fps w 150gr bullets. Lead would probably make a mess pretty quickly
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 9:25:34 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "The 5.56 NATO steel tip will pretty much slide through anything except really heavy plate armor". I found that standard M193 will blow through mild steel plate until you get to about 1/4'' thick. With the green tip ammo against 1/4'' mild steel most of the bullet does not make it through. Only part that does is the steel tip its self and it only barely makes it. This is mild steel, not alloyed and hardened ballistic steel. But 300WinMag destroys all. Wallmart 180gr hunting ammo had no problem punching holes straight through 1/2'' thick mild steel at 100yds.
YDraigGoch Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,346 Points:86,435 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 8:47:02 PM Ignore YDraigGoch Report Abuse The 5.56 NATO steel tip will pretty much slide through anything except really heavy plate armor. You can get the stuff at some ammo sites. Lake City sometimes has overruns, and sells on the civilain market. However, be sure to check if your particular gun can handle that stuff. It's sort of like .223 on steroids. I now use the 270gr Buffalo Bore for my .44 mag. I have a 265 gr bullet mold that casts a big slug, but bore leading can be a real time consumer. Even with my old Lewis lead removal system, it can still take half an hour to completely clear the rifling. I still use wheel weights when I can get them.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 5:58:42 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Do you think the difference is in the lead vs. jacketed bullets"? The problem with Lead bullets is as you approach 2000fps barrel leading becomes extreme. Those buffalo 44mag+P+ rounds are at the upper limit for lead bullets. Hard cast lead bullets appear to deliver lower chamber pressure with the same powder charge with cast vs jacketed bullets of the same weight. Most cast bullets have a wax lube ring too.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 5:49:57 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Bullets manufactured to go through a cops bullet proof vest should be banned for civilian use". Police vests don't stop any rifle bullets and the heavy hard sided military rifle threat level vests already can stop armor piercing bullets. So what are you trying to get at? I'm starting to get the impression you have no idea what you are talking about.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,413 Points:2,715,695 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 3:28:25 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse How would you like to be the guy that has to go door to door and collect the guns?
owt Champion Author Tennessee Posts:10,284 Points:1,591,430 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 3:26:31 PM Ignore owt Report Abuse Threaten me or my family and find out. Will not hesitate, Viet Nam vet, old, still good shot and don't tolerate the B.S.
daylily2009 Champion Author Fayetteville Posts:1,400 Points:636,010 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 2:45:19 PM Ignore daylily2009 Report Abuse yes shot gun 2 rifles
worryfree Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:23,843 Points:1,866,850 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 1:01:41 PM Ignore worryfree Report Abuse My Rmington R1 enhanced is not rated for +P ammo. Does that sound right?
teacher_tim Champion Author Maryland Posts:15,704 Points:744,485 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 12:27:31 PM Ignore teacher_tim Report Abuse Such guns were used to "hunt" passenger pigeons when the flocks darkened the skies and you simply had to shoot upward. Helps explain why they're extinct now.
BlackGumTree Champion Author Virginia Posts:18,439 Points:1,459,665 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 12:24:49 PM Ignore BlackGumTree Report Abuse I would love to get a shotgun like the one I saw growing up. I delivered newspapers and collecting one night from a customer who was cleaning this item in his living room. It was manufactured around 1900 for duck hunting but laws made it illegal to use for any kind of hunting. This shotgun which had a removable choke sat on a tripod, was fully automatic, had a sleeve coming out of the left side which could contain a lot of shells, and was air cooled. The reason for the removable choke as so it could fire "pumpkin balls" which instead of being a group of pellets was a single ball the diameter of the barrel. And the barrel diameter was not small. You would not want that thing pointing in your direction when it was fired. Interior walls would not bother it very much.
Panama19 Champion Author Louisville Posts:25,274 Points:2,542,335 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 11:16:04 AM Ignore Panama19 Report Abuse The powder used in either load isn't mentioned.
Panama19 Champion Author Louisville Posts:25,274 Points:2,542,335 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 10:57:06 AM Ignore Panama19 Report Abuse And that is not even half the energy in the Buffalo Bore +P+. Do you think the difference is in the lead vs. jacketed bullets?
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 2:24:52 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse At the very bottom of that chart they have "winchester". The winchester white box 240gr JSP that every walmart sells shows early warning signs of excessivly high pressure, with flattened head stamp lettering and "primer flow". Every one I know who has used it says the same thing, most people don't notice because they do not hanload their own ammo or have read books on the subject. Nothing I have ever loaded has done that and I have even tried my recipies in brand new winchester brass.
Panama19 Champion Author Louisville Posts:25,274 Points:2,542,335 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 2:15:42 AM Ignore Panama19 Report Abuse Not sure my wrist is. That's almost double the stomp.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 2:13:08 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "My link to Buffalo Bore Ammo lists the weapons that can take the +P+ loads". Oh trust me, I'm on the very inclusive list. My revolver is always on those types of lists.
Panama19 Champion Author Louisville Posts:25,274 Points:2,542,335 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 1:52:16 AM Ignore Panama19 Report Abuse oilpan4, "I would like to find a +P or +P+ load for 180gr 44mag bullets and get more rifle like velocity out of my big bore handgun" 44 Magnum +P+ Ballistics Make sure your hangun can take the pressure. My link to Buffalo Bore Ammo lists the weapons that can take the +P+ loads. [Edited by: Panama19 at 1/15/2013 1:56:17 AM EST]
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 1:35:16 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse I would like to find a +P or +P+ load for 180gr 44mag bullets and get more rifle like velocity out of my big bore handgun.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 1:24:57 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "This kind of ammo is already illegal and yet the criminals still get their hands on it". I useto find limited quanties of AP 30cal bullets years ago and they were legal to own in most states. But that goes back to police vests wont stop a regular 30cal bullet (30-30, 308, 30-06, 7.62x39 wallmart ammo) and the hard side rifle threat military vests were designed and tested against the M2AP bullet its self fired at much high than standard 30-06 and 308 velocity (the M2AP is the AP 30cal bullet I mentioned). Why ban them again? Its starting to make as much sense banning APples because people are allergic to peanuts.
Panama19 Champion Author Louisville Posts:25,274 Points:2,542,335 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 12:48:28 AM Ignore Panama19 Report Abuse oilpan4, "I didn't realize there was a SAMMI spec for 44mag+P+" Buffalo Bore Ammo has it.
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:26,568 Points:2,900,595 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 12:05:44 AM Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse Was it "Blammo Ammo Company"?
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,817 Points:1,010,560 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 11:07:42 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse oilpan it was on the website of some ammo company - I forgot which one - it was not one of the majors.
AFSNCO Champion Author Montgomery Posts:14,715 Points:1,290,195 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 11:01:23 PM Ignore AFSNCO Report Abuse "oil, "kill engine blocks" which has what purpose in bringing down a big buck in the woods? The most powerful round I ever shot was a 44 mag. I could hardly believe what it did to a 1/2 inch steel plate. Bullets manufactured to go through a cops bullet proof vest should be banned for civilian use. "Banning" does not keep criminals from stealing their ammo or guns. It seems dumb to offer it to them in stores" gocat, thus our point about banning anything. This kind of ammo is already illegal and yet the criminals still get their hands on it. Banning it will not keep them from still getting their hands on it. Cocaine is illegal yet millions of our citizens use it!
doonieb Champion Author Greensboro Posts:33,991 Points:678,535 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 10:44:18 PM Ignore doonieb Report Abuse Yes i have plenty. And will never give them up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 6:49:40 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse I didn't realize there was a SAMMI spec for 44mag+P+. Remember where you found that load data?
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:26,568 Points:2,900,595 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2013 12:44:17 PM Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse But, Worryfree, baseball bats and other blunt objects are also used to kill people. So then should we ban bats and with it the entire game of baseball? In effect, that's what anti-gun morons (as opposed to those who are truly studying the violence problem and open to all sides, you know, the opposite of Joe Biden) are saying about shooting sports. What about knives? What about fists, which I understand are used in like 15 - 20 % of all killings?
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,817 Points:1,010,560 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 10:22:41 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse oilpan I got my data from a site that has recognized safe reloading data and or sites describing commercially available ammunition. Hey are we gonna invoke the Obama doctrine of "well if it saves just one life its worth it" doctrine to all aspects of life??? Wrooy it is not and 'accident' when someone drinks and drives or uses the cell phone and drives or does a host of other things that are clearly agains the law or commone sense. When a vehicle crash occurs under those circumstances it is NOT an accident. It is a fatal vehicle crash that resulted from someone just not caring about anyone else. Those fatal crashes are easily preventable. They should be subject to the Obama Doctrine.
worryfree Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:23,843 Points:1,866,850 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 9:27:05 PM Ignore worryfree Report Abuse AC auto deaths are mostly "accidents". Gun deaths are mostly murder. I have the Remington R1 enhanced with 5 inch barrel. Very accurate and pleasant to shoot.
daylily2009 Champion Author Fayetteville Posts:1,400 Points:636,010 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 9:14:04 PM Ignore daylily2009 Report Abuse yes shot gun 2 rifles
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:26,568 Points:2,900,595 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 7:56:32 PM Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse More people are killed by cars than guns. So since the liberals are talking about banning guns, why aren't they also talking about banning cars? And drunk driving accidents kill a whole lot of people. But, oh yeah.. we tried banning alcoholic beverages and "stimulating" liquors..only to find that there was even MORE crime and violence associated with doing so vs. free and open access. We see the same thing in states where guns are tightly controlled. Those states tend to have higher murder rates. What's up with that? IMHO, we haven't taught these folks either respect for other folks and life, nor respect for and proper use of firearms. Oh, anyone have a good load for .357 Remington Maximum, with Hornady Ranger XTP 158 grains?
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 3:51:07 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Bullets manufactured to go through a cops bullet proof vest should be banned for civilian use". Police vests don't stop any rifle bullets and the heavy hard sided military rifle threat level vests already can stop armor piercing bullets. So what are you trying to get at? I'm starting to get the impression you have no idea what you are talking about. " 44mag+P+ at 340 gr jacketed HP ammo (very hot load) is 1650 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle and 1480 fps". Forget that. I loaded up some standard 250gr lead bullets and they were not fun at all to shoot. I prefer my 180gr XTP jacketed hollow points loaded with 33gr of H110 with a standard large rifle primer. They fling those little bullet over 1800fps and make a very large muzzel flash.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,817 Points:1,010,560 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 12:49:25 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Then we have this argument again. It is a lie the first times it was used and its still a lie. But spewing lies has never stopped any politician has it. Be sure to pay attention at the 55 second mark on. . >>>We have all heard it before, uttered by Pundits to Presidents, the "If fill-in-the-blank" saves one life, it is worth it." Vice President, Joe Biden is referring to his and President Obama's inclination to "act" to further restrict guns and enforce stricter gun control laws, which, if so enacted and enforced "if it saves one life", will be worth it. Usually, it is uttered with all good faith and meaning, but have you actually stopped to consider what that dictum would do to every day life, if applied to everything that should or should not be done "if it saves one life". Just a partial list of "one life savers": ¦Do not get out of bed. Most accidents happen at home, and some occur just rising and standing. ¦Ditto with taking a shower -- too many slips and falls. ¦Walking -- could trip ¦Running -- could get hit by a bike rider or car ¦Eating -- too many risks associated not only with the type of food by choking on it as well. ¦Driving a car -- no need to elaborate ¦Watching the NFL -- team wins; team loses -- cause for extreme emotions ¦Sitting on the beach -- as sage or tidal wave could occur ¦Kissing -- Mono and germs and bacteria from the dirtiest place of the human body. . . Isn't it time to stop and examine the idea of "if it saves one life" dictum? Will the prohibition of the 32 oz Big Gulp in New York save the person's life? Especially if you can purchase two 16 oz drinks? Isn't it time to stop and actually think?<<< The old garbage argument of 'well if it will save just one life' is a flat out lie. Nobody who uses this tired bunch of hokum believes what they are saying at all!
AC-302 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:26,568 Points:2,900,595 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 1:50:59 AM Ignore AC-302 Report Abuse I'm registered "decline to state party affiliation" (that means "indie" here in the Land of Fruits and Nuts). But I would tell you I'm socially moderate, but fiscally conservative. The party the best espouses my worldview is actually the Libertarian party (www.LP.org). Do I own a gun? Yeah, a few. I own a 12 ga shotgun. I own an OLD S&W M&P in .32-20 It's over 100 years old and will still fire. I own a .357, a couple .22 rifles. I have an old Broomhandle Mauser that cleaned up and re-blued. Used a lot of MnO2 in the solution, so it came out dark black. Pretty cool, really. I have some more modern firearms, too. Used to own a real nice Savage 110E in .30-06. No more - sold it. A pal of mine gave me some "black tips" for it. That's tungsten tipped armor piercing - circa WW-II.
Panama19 Champion Author Louisville Posts:25,274 Points:2,542,335 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 12:05:26 AM Ignore Panama19 Report Abuse PopcornPirate, "NJ being the Gestapo state that it is. It is virtually impossible to get a Concealed Carry Permit..." So why do you live there?
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,817 Points:1,010,560 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 11:42:28 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse gocat the 44 mag handgun round of 44mag+P+ at 340 gr jacketed HP ammo (very hot load) is 1650 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle and 1480 fps. A 7mm Mag with Nosler 160gr partition bullets (very commonly used for large deer and elk) has over 3200 ftlbs of energy at the muzzle and a speed of about 3200fps. Most bullet proof vests worn by cops will barely stop or most probably will not stop a 44 mag. A 7 MM Mag will not even slow down hardly. Now does that make the common hunting cartridge a 'cop killer' or an 'armor piercing bullet'. Not in the least - the ideas of trying to ban a bullet that can penetrate a cops vest is a sad sorry joke. Those vests are designed to stop only most handgun rounds. If you want to stop a deer hunting cartridge you have to have the stuff the military uses in Afganistan now. And when your talking about a 7mm Mag or larger standard hunting caliber - even that armor might not stop them. That is assuming someone tries to hit the armor...... People will you please learn what your talking about before you start asking to ban certain things. [Edited by: flyboyUT at 1/11/2013 11:44:22 PM EST]
worryfree Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:23,843 Points:1,866,850 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 11:40:42 PM Ignore worryfree Report Abuse .223 Federal green tip ammo is "penetrating"
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,041 Points:306,600 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 11:14:14 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Bullets manufactured to go through a cops bullet proof vest should be banned for civilian use". An armor piercing bullet is not designed to go through a "police vest". It doesn't need to be. The heavy hard sided military vests designed to stop armor piercing rounds already do so. Police vests don't stop any rifle bullets and the heavy hard sided vests already can stop armor piercing bullets. So what are you trying to get at? "Armor piercing ammunition is banned. 18 U.S.C. § 921" That is generally true. It gets down to what your definition of is, is.
greentre All-Star Author Pensacola Posts:779 Points:274,415 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 4:45:26 PM Ignore greentre Report Abuse GoCat, Armor piercing ammunition is banned. 18 U.S.C. § 921
RAB2010 All-Star Author Kalamazoo Posts:506 Points:66,210 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 10:29:42 AM Ignore RAB2010 Report Abuse Isn't that a politically incorrect question? It is a surprise that the moderators have not locked or deleted this topic! Where are the Gas Buddy Black Boots? [Edited by: RAB2010 at 1/11/2013 10:30:20 AM EST]
PopcornPirate Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,905 Points:1,170,645 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 10:29:18 AM Ignore PopcornPirate Report Abuse Conservative ( Fiscally & Responsibly ) Ye I am a gun owner. NJ being the Gestapo state that it is. It is virtually impossible to get a Concealed Carry Permit unless you are Police, ex-police, prison guard, ex-prison guard, hired as an armed security guard or a political official that deems he has the need to carry. Otherwise you CAN'T get one. They do NOT issue them to civilians. Case in point The guy from 1-1/2 years ago that got kidnapped here in NJ & was being taken to LA. On the way there he escaped. All because he had the same name as the guy the WiseGuys were looking for. They captured the guys responsible but are out on bail. Even HE was DENIED a CCP for insufficient reason.