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MahopacJack

Champion Author
New York

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 12:07:44 PM

Welfare is meant to be a helping hand to those who truly need assistance. A recent e-mail from my State (New York State Senator) shows that some recipients are using both Federal and State funds for some questionable "necessities".

"...Welfare is meant to be a helping hand to those who are in need. It's not supposed to be a license to party, or an excuse to waste taxpayer money.

Unfortunately, a recent investigation by the New York Post has confirmed that an alarming number of welfare recipients are using their Electronic Benefit Transfer (EBT) cards to make cash withdrawals at ATMs inside pornography shops, strip clubs and bars. The investigation also pointed out that New York could potentially lose millions in federal welfare funding due to recent federal requirements designed to prevent these types of abuse.

This past June, the State Senate passed the “Public Assistance Integrity Act” in an effort to protect taxpayer dollars from these outrageous abuses. The legislation would prohibit welfare recipients from using cash assistance to purchase items such as alcohol and lottery tickets, while also preventing them from using ATMs at locations like strip clubs and casinos. To date, however, the State Assembly has failed to bring the bill up for vote."

REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 1:46:01 PM

gocatgo, >>maho, "endanger her life" and your proof of that is?<<
***
As I previously stated, she would have to appear in court to testify. She, by law, would have to publicly provide her address. As the miscreants have already admitted to being "Professional Welfare Recipients," there is a great risk to her and her family that the 'pros' might arrange to have harm come her and her family's way. Do you seriously think people whose 'livelihoods' were suddenly disrupted would just accept their judgement and repent?
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 12:29:47 PM

maho, "endanger her life" and your proof of that is?

green, what I would have done was, make a lot of calls. The story sounds just like it is, a "story" from an email chain letter.

What welfare does is help feed the hungry. That said, I believe that there is fraud. But whining about fraud cases does nothing. Ending welfare because of a few bad apples makes as much sense as taking away all weapons because of a few criminals.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 5:02:38 AM

"You are supposed to have a "permanent" disability that you don't recover from to get on social security disability, and as such once you are declared "permanently" disabled you don't ever have to be evaluated again and you get a check every month for the rest of your life."

However, if what has disabled you has put you on hundreds of dollars of medication, and is a condition that requires regular visits to follow-up clinics, such as breathing or cancer clinics, that you need transportation to, support groups if you have cancer or had a major organ transplant, and possibly a more expensive diet to ensure adequate and complete nutrition, welfare is quite likely the only programme that will cover some of the shortfall, especially if you aren't a senior citizen. Let's face it, if you are on $900/month of anti-rejection drugs, you really can't pay for that out of a disability allowance.
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GLM4205
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 4:50:14 PM

"There lies part of the problem, it was suppose to be help not a lifestyle. How do you stop it is the question
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 1:35:41 PM

rumbleseat: "Permanent means you don't recover. "


You are supposed to have a "permanent" disability that you don't recover from to get on social security disability, and as such once you are declared "permanently" disabled you don't ever have to be evaluated again and you get a check every month for the rest of your life. We all know how well that's turned out. Therefore, even "permanent" conditions should be re-certified every so often.

While I'm at it there also should be a rat line or web site to report people who are cheating, just like the IRS has. If you report a cheater and it's verified and they get kicked off benefits you should get a reward of say a month's worth of their benefits. It would be more than a good deal to pay someone a month's worth of someone else's benefits if that saves the government from having to continue to pay them month after month.


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/11/2013 1:39:26 PM EST]
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 1:24:24 PM

"permanent medical condition (e.g. mental retardation) which would have to be re-verified every year or two."

Permanent means you don't recover.
You remind me of the welfare worker who called one of our recipients a few years ago who was on oxygen because of lung disease that nearly killed her to have her doctors fill out a form that asked if her lungs had grown back yet.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 9:20:01 AM

sgm: "Exactly. It seems to me as though some people are insulted by the very existence of aid, but I think stopping it for all without examining on a case-by-case basis would be nuts. "


It's not the existence or availability of the aid, it's the ease at which people can stay on it, and the fact that it's become preferable to work. A few changes would probably be enough to fix it. They would include:


1). A lifetime limit of the number of years on aid, unless the person had some permanent medical condition (e.g. mental retardation) which would have to be re-verified every year or two.

2). A requirement that the person spend 40 hours a week outside the home doing something for the benefits, even if it means counting paperclips in a drab welfare center. If they work part time the time spent working would be subtracted from the 40 hour requirement. One of the biggest problems with a lot of these benefits is that it's much easier to sit home and collect than it is to work. Getting benefits has to be made more unpleasant than working, not the other way around.

3). Regular drug tests, and if you fail say twice, you are out. You can't get a job today unless you can pass a drug test, and you can't even look for a job while high. Therefore, you shouldn't be allowed to collect benefits while doing something that is both illegal and disqualifies you from getting a job.

4). Commit a felony while on benefits and you are out.

5). Father, or bring a child into the world and you are out. If you are on the dole you have no business bringing children into the world and expecting someone else to pay for them. In today's environment you are rewarded for bringing children into the world with more benefits. It needs to be the opposite. All males on public assistance would have to give a blood sample that could be tested against newborn babies to unwed welfare mothers. If it's a match the father is kicked off too. The only exception would be a child brought into the world as a result of rape, and the woman would have to actually report the rape to the authorities as such.


Rules like these would fix the problem, and they really aren't that different conceptually than the rules a person in a bygone era would have to follow if they stayed at Aunt Jenny's rooming house while they were down on their luck (basically do some chores, look for a job, stay sober, and don't get in trouble with the law). Common sense is what it is.



mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/11/2013 9:21:40 AM EST]
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 9:19:30 AM

IMO, there should be time limits and work search, training and participation requirements for able bodied working age welfare recipients.

New York's TANF benefits have time limits and work activity requirements.

"New York TANF Benefits There is a maximum of 60 months of TANF assistance benefits within one's lifetimes. There is oftentimes a differentiation between adults and children. If you are a child and receive TANF benefits, depending on your State, you could receive another 60 months as an adult.

TANF Work Requirements

Work requirements: Adults in families receiving cash assistance must work or participate in work related activities for a specified number of hours per week depending on the number of work-eligible adults in the family and the age of children.

Type of Family
Work participation Hours Required
Single parents with a child under age 6
20 hours weekly in core work activities.
Other single parent families or two-parent families where one parent is disabled 30 hours weekly with at least 20 hours in core activities.
Married teen or teen head of household under age 20.
Maintains satisfactory attendance at secondary school or the equivalent or participates in education related to employment for at least 20 hours weekly.
Two-parent families who do not receive subsidized child care 35 hours per week (total among both parents) with at least 30 hours in core activities.
Two-parent families who receive subsidized child care 55 hours per week with at least 50 hours in core activities
Work Activities: Federal law includes 12 work activities. 9 of the activities are 'core' activities in that they may be used to satisfy any of the average weekly participation requirements. The other 3 activities are 'supplemental' in that they may only be used to satisfy the work activity requirement after the 'core' requirement is met.

Core Activities

1. Unsubsidized employment
2. Subsidized private sector employment
3. Subsidized public sector employment
4. Job search and job readiness (limited to not more than 6 weeks in a federal fiscal year with not more than 4 weeks consecutive).
5. Community service
6. Work experience
7. On-the-job training
8. Vocational educational training (limited to 12 months for an individual), and
9. Caring for a child of a recipient in community service
Supplemental Activities

10. Job skills training directly related to employment
11. Education directly related to employment (for those without a high school or equivalent degree)
12. Completion of a secondary school program

The work activity requirement applies to families with one or more adults in the assistance group. The requirement also applies to families where the adult has been sanctioned due to non-compliance with work requirements but the assistance has been continued to the children under a special hardship provision of state law."
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 8:26:00 AM

"There lies part of the problem, it was suppose to be help not a lifestyle. How do you stop it is the question."

Exactly. It seems to me as though some people are insulted by the very existence of aid, but I think stopping it for all without examining on a case-by-case basis would be nuts.
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LTVibe
Champion Author Orlando

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 7:40:07 AM

>>Someone needs to pay for me and my kids!<<

Update: She now has 16 kids.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:50:14 PM

Someone needs to pay for me and my kids!

BTW, she blames the system for her plight...not that she likes to lay on her back and let guys impregnate her. This is a case of no personal responsibility.

[Edited by: AFSNCO at 1/10/2013 11:51:34 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:26:35 PM

"Darn those government employees, how dare they own cars"?

The parking lot had roughly 35 cars, the waiting room had way more than 40 people of driving age in it.
Oh and there is the small problem of the employee parking around back that wasn't full.

Had I believed those cars belongs to the employees I would not have said anything and just applied for a job there.

What I think is most if not nearly all of those people make a decent living "under the table" and still collect welfare and are all well versed in working the system.
I was irritated because that was my first time seeking out and finding a welfare office and I wanted to see if the rumor of "people on welfare drive nice/new vehicles".
So far it holds up.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 1/10/2013 11:29:32 PM EST]
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 6:22:56 PM

"Many residents have a rural mailbox, PO box, or a PMB, so it's hard to keep track of where they're living."

Actually it is easy. It is called an in-home visit.
I have a friend who will be on welfare for the rest of her life. She was left handicapped after illness nearly killed her, and major surgery saved her life.
She can't work, ever, and the unfortunate thing is, her budget is set EXACTLY the same as that for some healthy work-ready-but-lazy younger person. She has had the odd in-home visit from workers, as well as in-office meetings.
When she lived temporarily with a friend with a rural box number, there was an in-home visit to confirm her address as well.
Any system that doesn't do an occasional in-home visit is set up for easy abuse, and there is no excuse for that.
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:42:56 AM

"I don't think your sister in law tried very hard to report these people. She also could have called the local news people." Nothing like taking on more heartaches when your husband just left you with an infant and you have no job, trasportation, money, food... So tell me, would that be the top thing on YOUR list to do? Report someone, or get help?
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:37:29 AM

mswiggy: "There lies part of the problem, it was suppose to be help not a lifestyle. "


Benefits such as welfare & food stamps are like narcotics. Narcotics can be great as a temporary measure, just ask anyone who has had surgery or been in an accident; but by themselves they don't heal anything or help anything, they just dull the pain. However, when abused and/or used for long periods they create addiction and dependency.

Welfare benefits are exactly the same. They don't solve the root problem and when abused and used over long periods of time they create addiction and dependency just like narcotics. We have created millions and millions of welfare and food stamp addicts in this country, many of whom are part of a mutli-generational pattern of addiction, by converting these programs from their intended use as a short term measure, just like how narcotics are supposed to be used, to a full fledged lifestyle. They are no less addicts than the junkie on the streets, and we are creating more every day. The left is deliberately causing more and more of this addiction because they understand that addicts are easily manipulated and controlled (as in they will vote for who they are told to) by the pusher who controls their supply, which in this case is check or food stamp recharge every month.


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/10/2013 11:41:33 AM EST]
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:04:47 AM

There is no arguement from me , there is welfare abuse in every state. Many of us have witnessed it. Many have suspected others of it. Many also know others who have truely needed the help.

There lies part of the problem, it was suppose to be help not a lifestyle. How do you stop it is the question.
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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:01:27 AM

gocatgo, >>green, "professional welfare recipients". I don't think your sister in law tried very hard to report these people. She also could have called the local news people.<<
***
And she would have to testify in court which might endanger her or her family. As for the media, most often these stories don't make the news unless it is a specific victim. Having the "the government" (in reality ALL OF US) in the role as victim just isn't news anymore.

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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 10:48:47 AM

gocatgo, >>mud, so if you draw welfare you are not allowed to drink or go to sleazy dives?<<
***
And you think that it is ok? Have you considered their "lifestyle" may be linked directly to their inability to prepare for difficult times?
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 10:45:28 AM

At age 65 all of the people I have known on welfare over the years needed the help really bad. Sadly there are cheats and they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Ending welfare to get to the cheats is not the answer.

mud, so if you draw welfare you are not allowed to drink or go to sleazy dives?

oil, so the age of your car is reason enough to not be able to get welfare? Never heard of that one.

green, "professional welfare recipients". I don't think your sister in law tried very hard to report these people. She also could have called the local news people.

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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 9:26:02 AM

It's pretty common to see recipients of some welfare benefits with nice vehicles, second vehicles, nice homes, nice boats etc as income limits have been raised and asset tests have been relaxed.
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 9:20:53 AM

Speaking of valid addresses, I had some tenants that lost their jobs, then applied for numerous welfare benefits. I later evicted them, but they tried keeping their mailbox at the end of the road as they still used the address of my apartment house so they could apply for numerous welfare benefits, plus keep their kids in their existing school system illegally.

The household they moved into had several occupants with decent incomes, so they would have been disqualified from receiving welfare benefits. Since the household was outside the school system, they would have had to pay tuition to keep their kids in the school system.

They probably wouldn't have been reported if it weren't for a neighbor that caught them snooping in other mailboxes and stealing from one of the mailboxes.

Many residents have a rural mailbox, PO box, or a PMB, so it's hard to keep track of where they're living.

Many residents use the addresses of vacant properties as well.

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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 9:10:21 AM

Locally, TANF applicants have dropped substantially due to the job training, job participation and job search requirements.

Welfare recipients that work the system will simply get a part time job so they don't have to apply for TANF and/or they'll work under the table jobs as well.

This way they'll earn cash, plus receive $X,000 EIC, subsidized housing, Medicaid, food stamps, WIC, daycare, HEAP, Emergency HEAP, cellular phones, minutes etc.
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 9:09:27 AM

My sister-in-law had to go on welfare for a short time when her husband left her and their son. When she went to take the mandatory training she met a couple driving a brand new Cadillac. She asked if they were giving the class, they replied "Oh, no! We are professional welfare reciepients" So she asked what that meant and how they could have such a nice car. They told her that collecting benefits was how they made their living and the car was a government hand-out if you knew what paperwork to fill out. They told her for a fee they would get all the stuff she needed to be living off the fat of the land. She didn't do it and tried to report them, no luck.

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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 8:57:41 AM

Markjames
Has a very good point there are multi generational welfare recipients that know how to work the system.

There are many that truly need the help, but I say no free ride.

We need to change the system, all should be required to do some work. Those that need the welfare would most likely be happy to comply.

We need to take all the excuses away, single mom says I have no baby sitter, no problem you drop your child off at the welfare day care center also staffed by welfare recipients.

you have no transportation no problem a school bus will be by after dropping the kids off.

If we require some effort at least we are making an effort to get them to see its not a free ride.

All our highway are full of litter, all the public restrooms need cleaning, we just make sure we dont displace a employed worker with welfare recipients.

If we took this approach, we would give many job experience, get the fraudsters off the system, and also tie up some of their time so they are not laying around getting into trouble.
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Guitar_Man
Champion Author Colorado Springs

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 7:14:44 AM

Like the 19,000 welfare cases in Massachusetts that don't have valid addresses?Gov vows review of welfare clients
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 6:52:38 AM

"I noticed it was full and looked like a new and gently used car dealer ship lot."
Darn those government employees, how dare they own cars?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 2:07:58 AM

I went to the welfare office to drop off a friend that had run out of options. Upon pulling into the parking lot I noticed it was full and looked like a new and gently used car dealer ship lot.
Only one car was in bad shape.
Anyone else see a problem there?
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MarkJames
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 8:30:32 AM

The largest forms of welfare fraud locally are lying about household composition, failing to report incomes of unreported household members and failing to report other sources of documented personal income.

We know many that convert numerous welfare benefits to cash, plus commit numerous other forms of welfare fraud, but these actions are difficult to investigate, prove and prosecute.

Much of the population in many regions consists of multi-generation welfare recipients, so they know how to work the system.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 12:14:04 PM

I guess in the Obama economy even the takers are stressed out and need a drink and a lap dance every now and then.......


mudtoe
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