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mswiggy

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South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:03:40 AM

Gabby Giffords launches group to counter gun lobby

A national initiative aimed at curbing gun violence was launched by former US. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, on Tuesday -- the second anniversary of the shooting that killed six people and left her critically injured.

A new campaign website, Americans For Responsible Solutions, promised to “launch a national dialogue and raise funds to counter influence of the gun lobby.”

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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 2:02:47 AM

Here is a stat you will like:

Lott offers a final damning statistic: “With just one single exception, the attack on congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in Tucson in 2011, every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns.”

Maybe their orginazation should try to ban gun free zones.

Mass shooting facts
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 2:26:31 AM

What is your point in questioning statistics?
Why do I have to have a point in posting them?
Had I compiled the statistics, I would have a point.

They are figures only. They are truth.
They are there for information.
If you don't care for that information, it is no skin off my back, they aren't my figures, I didn't kill anybody during the years for which information was collected. But somebody sure as heck did.
And 4.6 murders per 100,000 population should not be acceptable, no matter what is used to kill.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:13:48 PM

"United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime statistics for intentional homicides:
United Kingdom - 1.2/100,000 population
Canada - 1.6/100,000 population
USA - 4.8/100,000 population"

What is your point?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 6:10:25 PM

United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime statistics for intentional homicides:
United Kingdom - 1.2/100,000 population
Canada - 1.6/100,000 population
USA - 4.8/100,000 population

Of note:
Japan - .4/100,000 population
Palestine - 4.1/100,000 population
Worst:
Honduras - 91.6/100,000 population
Best:
Monaco - 0.0/100,000 population
Palau - 0.0/100,000 population
Murder rates complete table

By the way, oilpan, nice attempt at obfuscation.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 1/10/2013 6:12:41 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 1:03:26 PM

Forget what mswiggy - the words of the vice president?
.
>>>Vice President Joe Biden said Wednesday that executive orders — decrees from the White House that neither require nor invite the approval of Congress — will play a role in the administration’s response to the Dec. 14 massacre that left 20 children dead at a Connecticut elementary school.

“The president is going to act,” Biden said, seated next to Attorney General Eric Holder, before meeting with victims of gun violence and gun-safety groups Wednesday. Groups represented included Mayors Against Illegal Guns, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Arizona for Gun Safety and the Campaign to Keep Guns off Campus.

Biden referred to an “executive order, executive action that can be taken,” before noting that “we haven’t decided what that is yet.”

“But we’re compiling it all with the help of the attorney general and all the rest of the cabinet members as well as legislative action we believe is required.”<<<

Seems pretty plain that the govt at the highest levels is seriously porposing to just rule by decree from the throne of King Obama or whatever doesnt it. Look at the clear language they use.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 12:36:06 PM

Forget the boogeyman of big, bad government coming to dispossess you of your firearms. As a Western woman and a Persian Gulf War combat veteran who have exercised our Second Amendment rights, we don't want to take away your guns any more than we want to give up the two guns we have locked in a safe at home. What we do want is what the majority of NRA members and other Americans want: responsible changes in our laws to require responsible gun ownership and reduce gun violence. -- from the website,Americans For Responsible Solutions,---

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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 12:31:22 PM

What needs to be done is work to minimize the misuse and illegal use of Gun Violence.
-----------------------
Agreed, so glad this is one thing this group wants to do.
The other thing I am glad this group wants to do is protect the responsible gun owners.
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greentre
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 12:19:12 PM

Sometime BGT I love your way with words.

"The problem is not Gun Violence; it is Crimes. So eliminate crimes!"

So true! England still hasn't figured it out.

United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 12:12:02 PM

rumbleseat - "you really missed the simple concepts of my post."

No, I didn't. But I'm glad you said it , not me.

I'm objecting to calling Gun Violence a problem when it is not. Guns are violent; that is what they are for.

But Violence is not limited to guns. And Gun Violence is often good. So trying to eliminate Gun Violence is stupid. What needs to be done is work to minimize the misuse and illegal use of Gun Violence. There will always be a few miscreants who will misuse and/or illegally use Gun Violence; it cannot be entirely eliminated.

Taking peoples Guns away will not eliminate Violence; the most it will do is to cause Gun Violence to be replaced by some other kind of Violence. Take away our guns and when you come after us with a gun, we will run you down with our vehicles, shoot arrows in you, throw or push a spear into your, and then cut you up with our knives. And then we will have your Gun.

The problem is not Gun Violence; it is Crimes. So eliminate crimes!
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 11:07:29 AM

>So what are your real motives in working to eliminate Gun Violence?

I am not sure either, but if I were to guess, I would say it was to lower the murder rate. Make it harder for mentally I'll patients to purchase firearms, limit the size of magazines, and perform a proper background check. Btw, 643 people have been shot since the sandy hook incident, perhaps.
-------------------

Sounds like a good guess to me --
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RockCity
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 7:43:32 AM

>So what are your real motives in working to eliminate Gun Violence?

I am not sure either, but if I were to guess, I would say it was to lower the murder rate. Make it harder for mentally I'll patients to purchase firearms, limit the size of magazines, and perform a proper background check. Btw, 643 people have been shot since the sandy hook incident, perhaps.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 1:36:44 AM

I said she can join the kooks over at the brady center.
You called her a kook. Its good to know your true thoughts.
The reason the brady center people are kooks is because they live in a fantasy world where they believe their 1994 assault weapons ban was a huge success (the bill was called the brady bill since they pushed so hard for it).

Maybe the gabby giffords gun thing might do something positive, but given the history of these types of groups the chances of that are pretty much non-existent.
At the very least they should divert some donation funds away from the brady center.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 11:56:24 PM

So much for a logical thought on the problem of gun violence and whether there is any possibility of actually limiting access to weapons to people who can pass background checks.

---------
Dont worry rumble there still are many of us out there that still want to do in a logical manner.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 9:52:21 PM

Wow, Gabby Giffords is the one shot, nearly killed, and oilpan reduces her to a "kook" for expressing a desire to at least try to bring some level of control to WHO can purchase guns.
So much for a logical thought on the problem of gun violence and whether there is any possibility of actually limiting access to weapons to people who can pass background checks.


[Edited by: rumbleseat at 1/9/2013 9:55:00 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 8:56:20 PM

"Gabby Giffords launches group to counter gun lobby"

She can join the kooks over at the brandy center to prevent handgun violence.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 6:01:42 PM

Your thought was not simple as yo put it and people objected because it seemed to be full of errors. Just that easy/simple.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 5:57:49 PM

BGT, fly, you really missed the simple concepts of my post.
Sometimes it is a waste of time expressing a simple thought. People feel so threatened and get their panties wadded up.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 1/9/2013 5:58:54 PM EST]
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 5:09:02 PM

It is the misuse of guns that must be dealt with,
---------------

Agreed, and this is the first group that I have seen that is looking for just that, attack the misuse of guns and keep the responsible ones safe. That is why I agree with it.

I was hoping your post was sarcasm when you were talking about taking them all away (guns that is) -- This group in no way is advocating anything like this.

If we as people dont start doing it proper ,we will never get anything done. Running from one extreme to the other gets us nowhere.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 12:03:37 PM

mswiggy - Guns are tools of Violence. The point is that not Gun Violence is bad; much of it is good.

It is the misuse of guns that must be dealt with, not gun violence. Put the wrong label on a problem and it becomes more difficult to solve.
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jamofsocal
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 11:39:14 AM

Good post BlackGumTree.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 11:10:19 AM


I feel very sorry for what Gabby Giffords has gone through, just as I feel very sorry for the torture McCain experienced in a North Vietnamese POW camp. Thank God they are both still alive.

But this does not mean that we must automatically defer to either person's political views.

I have serious differences with the politics of both, even though I have great sympathy for their personal tragedies.

God bless them both.

But I don't follow either one's political ideologies.

Nor will I in the future.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 10:32:20 AM

Rumble - "The person using a gun to kill people has his full attention on killing people." Really - you can now determine the thoughts of someone who is defending their home? Pray tell just how is this done?

But someone who has multiple DWI's goes out and does it again and the dead person is just an 'accident"?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 10:07:35 AM

BlackGumTree, thanks for posting the story on the Georgia Mom.
So differnt from the stories that are frequently used.

The woman in Oklahoma.... quote:

"I wouldn't have done it, but it was my son," McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO. "It's not an easy decision to make, but it was either going to be him or my son. And it wasn't going to be my son. There's nothing more dangerous than a woman with a child."

For a long time it was illegal for a Chicago citizen to own a handgun, until it was over turned by the supreme court in 2010... though many of the politicians had them... illegally or through "loop holes" in the laws.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 10:06:28 AM

BGT --For me what these women did was not so called gun violence, they used the gun's for a responsible intention, protection of the highest regard, their and their childrens lives. Could it have gone differently, possible, would I have done the same thing in their position. Most likely.

Big difference from someone who is using the gun to promote just that senseless violence on innocent people. Such as Gabby Giffords, the kids and teachers in Newtown, Colorado theater and on and on. Those r the true meaning of gun violence. - Responsible gun owners r NOT the ones who preform the gun violence that so many are upset with.

- Responsible gun owners are the ones who understand what a gun can do and do everything possible not to abuse that knowledge.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 9:36:46 AM

mswiggy - "A national initiative aimed at curbing gun violence was launched by former US. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly...."

rumbleseat - "The person using a gun to kill people has his full attention on killing people."

The purpose of guns is violence:

Georgia mom shoots home intruder in the face five times with a .38-caliber revolver

Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot

These women used Gun Violence to protect their children and themselves? So what are your real motives in working to eliminate Gun Violence?
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 8:14:32 AM

Cars kill people. But we don't want to take them away. Instead, we have heavily regulated their usage. This has been highly effective. At one point over 43,000 people were dying each year in driving-related deaths.

We regulate who can buy them, who can drive them, how they must be driven, we require insurance and registration, force people to lock them up. We tell manufacturers what features must be included on them, what features may not be included. We tell people what kind of cars they can drive and what kind of cars they may not. We actively oversee all of this and have law enforcement constantly overseeing their usage.

As a result of all this, driving-related deaths have dropped to just over 30,000 per year.

We need the same kind of effective policy for guns.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 7:30:05 AM

Look here in KY, we have the KASPER system that tracks meds, doctors and patients. It is working to improve the abuse of prescription drugs here.

Why can we not have a system like that for guns, mental illness and other background checks, nationally. And, btw, I think we should take the KASPER system nationally, too!

KASPER
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 7:25:03 AM

"...and her assailant lives on the taxpayer dime. She should lobby for capital punishment."
That is a totally different issue.

"Would she (or the people using her situation) seriously launch a group to counter the telecommunications industry or the car industry or just the cell phone driving texting people?"
It isn't the telecomunications issue, or the car industry issue, and many states and provinces already have strict laws in place.
The difference is, the person using the phone who kills people (or the person eating, or putting on makeup, or making out), while guilty of killing them, didn't set out to turn the car into a weapon by not paying attention. The person using a gun to kill people has his full attention on killing people.
Again, totally different issues.
Not meaning to denigrate one, or make another more important, but they are totally different issues.

And it so happens that Gabby Giffords WAS SHOT, so musing about what she would be doing had it been a texting driver is just an attempt at diversion.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:52:25 PM

i think you should donate all your eartly goods and live like a king
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:31:21 PM

Hopefully this will get some traction. I will be donating to this PAC. Join me.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 7:23:14 PM

curbing and eleminating gun violence are two different things.

Getting them out of the criminal and mentally ill's hands is a good thing and goes under curbing gun violence. I think most agree these people should not have the guns because these are the people that r not responsible.

Protecting responsible gun ownership sounds pretty good to me. I dont mind being a responsible gun owner and nice to have someone on that side for a change beside the NRA

These are the statement they are making. Again sounds good to me. This is what they started with and I do hope they continue this same way and not go to far right or left.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 7:06:22 PM

"As gun owners and victims of gun violence, Gabby and Mark know preventing gun violence and protecting responsible gun ownership go hand-in-hand."

Guns are tools used for violence. They are used by police, the military, and citizens for self-defense.

To eliminate gun violence, you must eliminate all guns. Take them away from citizens, take them away from the military, take them away from the police. The only ones left with guns will be violent criminals who will not peacefully give up their stolen guns. How do you propose to eliminate these guns?
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Daurel
Veteran Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 2:46:54 PM

Why don't you all look into the FACT that the last three people that were on prescriptions for anti depressants?!!?
Also the statement from the Joker, reality was fuzzy days before the shooting?

[Edited by: Daurel at 1/8/2013 2:49:38 PM EST]
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 2:34:54 PM

From the website and the facebook site looks like they want both AC, and again in both places its bringing up the problem of the crimianls and mentally ill and how to stop them from the guns while keeping the law abiding gun owners with there guns.

Does sound like a good start to me. Considering that Gabby and her husband make sure its known that they too are responsible gun owners and not looking to stop that anytime soon.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 2:30:27 PM

Dear fellow American,

Two years ago, a mentally ill young man shot me in the head, killed six of my constituents, and wounded 12 others. Since that terrible day, America has seen 11 more mass shootings – but no response from Congress to prevent gun violence. After the massacre of 20 children and six of their teachers at Sandy Hook Elementary though, it’s clear: This time must be different.

Americans for Responsible Solutions will encourage elected officials to stand up for solutions to prevent gun violence and protect responsible gun ownership by communicating directly with the constituents that elect them.

As gun owners and victims of gun violence, Gabby and Mark know preventing gun violence and protecting responsible gun ownership go hand-in-hand. This country can put its divisive politics aside and come together to support commonsense measu...res to make us feel more secure in our communities. You can support the Second Amendment AND policies to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. 74 percent of NRA members agree - and so do Gabby and Mark.

We need less political stalemate and more responsible solutions. Join us at Americans for Responsible Solutions right now. http://americansforresponsiblesolutions.org/
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 1:39:36 PM

You notice that these bogus groups put out innocuous names. Yet they are 100% anti-gun. Fools. Why aren't they attacking the problem from the other side, like criminals accessing guns, or mental illness in our society? Most of these perps have a history of illness that is well documented before they ever commit their vile acts.

But I get it. IT's easier to blame the object than our dysfunctional society.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:33:56 AM

I have to wonder what she (actually the people using her name) would do if she'd been hit by a cell phone texting driver and she would have been driving a stretch van full of sunday school aged kids (4-6 year olds) and half of the kids killed?

Would she (or the people using her situation) seriously launch a group to counter the telecommunications industry or the car industry or just the cell phone driving texting people?

God bless her.
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:21:22 AM

and her assailant lives on the taxpayer dime. She should lobby for capital punishment.
-----------

agreed,
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:09:55 AM

...and her assailant lives on the taxpayer dime. She should lobby for capital punishment.

[Edited by: WES03 at 1/8/2013 9:10:54 AM EST]
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 9:09:07 AM

Americans for Responsible solutions

Americans for Responsible Solutions will encourage elected officials to stand up for solutions to prevent gun violence and protect responsible gun ownership by communicating directly with the constituents that elect them.

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