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Author Topic: Do you really trust the government Back to Topics
flyboyUT

Champion Author
Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 2, 2013 11:08:22 PM

Suuuuure it for information only - were from the government and we are here to help you but the checks in the mail.
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>>>When you get your W-2 wage and tax statement this month, look at Box 12. For the first time ever, as a result of the Obama health law, the IRS is requiring employers to report the cost of health insurance you get at work.

The Obama administration claims that it's informational, so you'll appreciate the value of your health plan. Believe that and I'll sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.

"Taxpayers should be uncomfortable with the implications of the W-2 reporting requirement," warns Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform. He calls Box 12 a "clear set-up" for taxing your health plan.

The ugly outcome of the fiscal cliff shows that Washington politicians are intent on wringing more money out of American taxpayers instead of curbing profligate government spending.

The fiscal cliff pact raises income and capital gains taxes on high earners (on top of ObamaCare tax hikes), allows payroll taxes to rise on all workers, postpones previously agreed-to spending controls and extends costly unemployment benefits.

Worst of all, the president announced Monday night that he intends to push for more tax revenue in the new year.<<<<
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cbuck80
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 9:43:11 AM

No and that goes for the media as well.
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Tru2psu2
Champion Author Winston-Salem

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 5:12:45 AM

Especially this one!
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doonieb
Champion Author Greensboro

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 12:22:11 AM

NO!!!!!!!
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 8:53:12 PM

"An employer would never consider giving each employee $1600 to purchase the health care of their choice. It's a fake benefit on a piece of paper and real cost is significantly less as a real corporate expense."

Time to put on your "listening ears": Your assertion that 'employers inflate the "value" of your fringe benefits' isn't correct, unless you're claiming that employers falsify their IRS returns by claiming deductions in excess of their actual value. Nobody's talking about the figures contained in a welcome packet; we're talking about the actual deduction taken by employers... the figure reported in box 12.




"What's written on that Welcome Packet is marketing, not actual."

In other words, corporations lie to their employees. This is news?




[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/3/2013 8:56:20 PM EST]
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:57:30 PM

An employer would never consider giving each employee $1600 to purchase the health care of their choice. It's a fake benefit on a piece of paper and real cost is significantly less as a real corporate expense. What's written on that Welcome Packet is marketing, not actual.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:44:27 PM

This is a tough one to call.

If you are going to have an "income" tax, then your benefits really are part of that income.

We can disagree on what the tax money should be spent on, but I think most people are grudgingly accepting of the fact that government needs money to see to the business of government. From roads to defense to everything else people and industry needs.

So, if we have an "income" tax, ALL income should be taxed.

However, stuff like benefits, interest on house payments and a few things like that are often held up by the wealthy as an excuse for them to get breaks on a LOT of stuff. From capital gains to farm subsidies to a host of other tax breaks.

So, maybe if ALL our income was taxed, there would be a huge outpouring of wrath about ANY breaks for the rich. And that, in the long run, would be a good thing. Then EVERYBODY would be forced to pay his share.

I'm not advocating, but it is a view on the subject not often thought about.

[Edited by: YDraigGoch at 1/3/2013 7:46:16 PM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:16:11 PM

"I hope your sitting down - cause I agree with you totally on this one idea."

You do realize that the medical deduction for employees will increase as well, since the increased income would be used to purchase health insurance, right?


WTH does Obama flying to Hawaii have to do with this topic? (Anyone watching the debt clock is in serious need of a hobby and a life.)


[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/3/2013 7:19:28 PM EST]
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Guitar_Man
Champion Author Colorado Springs

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:11:56 PM

"Obviously the government is more trustworthy with health care dollars than the for-profit health"

This has to be the funniest post of the day...using "government" and "trustworthy" in the same sentence!!

Excuse me while I go watch the Debt Clock as it ticks towards $16.5 Trillion!! (While our President feels nothing about burning through $7 Million to fly to Hawaii not once but twice in the past couple of weeks.)

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:09:42 PM

Hey Marty --- you said ---"I also don't care for the current situation of having health insurance bundled with employment. I'd rather the employer increase each employee's pay by an amount equal to the insurance premium, and let employees purchase their own insurance. It would go a long ways towards ending the nonsense lawsuits by employers like Hobby Lobby and the like, since employers would then be out of the loop. It would be worth doing on that one account alone." I hope your sitting down - cause I agree with you totally on this one idea.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:01:55 PM

"Be careful what you wish for."

I said it was time to -consider- it. Once again, the IRS is fully aware of what employer-sponsored health insurance coverage costs because employers get a tax deduction for that cost. Your assertion that 'employers inflate the "value" of your fringe benefits' isn't correct, unless you're claiming that employers falsify their IRS returns by claiming deductions in excess of their actual value.

I also don't care for the current situation of having health insurance bundled with employment. I'd rather the employer increase each employee's pay by an amount equal to the insurance premium, and let employees purchase their own insurance. It would go a long ways towards ending the nonsense lawsuits by employers like Hobby Lobby and the like, since employers would then be out of the loop. It would be worth doing on that one account alone.

By the way, I don't have a dog in this fight; I pay full freight for my own health insurance.

On the whole our government is more trustworthy than insurance companies, and certainly more trustworthy than Congress, although that's not saying much.






[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/3/2013 7:05:25 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 6:30:28 PM

It's not all bad. Now workers are able to see how much their employers actually spend on their health care. It's good to have this information out in the open. Workers will realize how much having a job with health care benefits is worth vs a work situation without.

Personally I think it is a mistake to have health care bundled to work, though. It would be preferable to have it bundled to being a human in America. Let's take the money paid by employers to health care insurance companies on behalf of employees and give it all directly to the government. Let the government set up an agency or adapt an already existing one such as Medicare to pay the health care providers directly. That would work much better since Medicare spends 93% of it's funds on actual health care expenses and for-profit insurance companies spend only 80%.

Obviously the government is more trustworthy with health care dollars than the for-profit health care insurance companies. 93% vs 80% trustworthy, I'd say.

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 1/3/2013 6:31:49 PM EST]
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:59:43 PM

"Perhaps it's time to consider taxing that fringe benefit."

Be careful what you wish for.

When you receive your benefits valuation as part of your job offer, employers inflate the "value" of your fringe benefits:

"You only pay $300 per month for a health plan valued at $1600 month!"

Total BS! This is the oldest HR trick in the book -- and now you may be taxed on this bloated overvaluation (Obamas "Cadillac plan" scheme).

One company I worked for you dreaded receiving a fancy wooden award plaque as the value was tacked on your "income" to the tune of $400. (no thanks, keep it)

Obamacare is going to drain families to the poor house (so half the Nation can receive it free)



[Edited by: e_jeepin at 1/3/2013 6:05:05 PM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:38:59 PM

The IRS has always been aware of the amount long before box 12 existed, considering that employers enjoy a tax deduction that derives from purchasing insurance on behalf of its employees. That "clear set-up" has existed as long as the deduction has. Perhaps it's time to consider taxing that fringe benefit.

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/3/2013 5:40:26 PM EST]
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mswiggy
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:26:53 PM

box 12 DD (lol) was started in 2011, spoke about and approved in 2010. It was all over the IRS website- This income ( i say loosely ) is not taxable. Can that change in the future sure anything is possible however its not now-

It was announced March 30, 2011 that the IRS issued Notice 2011-28

April 7 2011
It was announced March 30, 2011 that the IRS issued Notice 2011-28 giving interim guidance on reporting employer-sponsored health coverage on Form W-2. On March 23, 2010, the Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act of 2010 was enacted that will require employers to report the aggregate cost of health plans. This was to be effective for the calendar year 2011 reported in 2012, but was delayed. Employers were still given the option to begin reporting the coverage at this time, although it was not required, however it will be required beginning calendar year 2012 reported in 2013.

Those groups or individuals that would be excluded from reporting the health coverage on the Form W-2 include:

Employers who filed less than 250 Form W-2’s the prior year
Self insured employers that are not subject to the COBRA continuation
On W-2 for employees that terminate before the end of the calendar year and request their W-2 early
Related companies that fall under a common paymaster. The common Paymaster would be required to report this information
Those who do not normally receive a W-2
For example: Retirees----------
As for your question about trust and the government -- heck no- thats like trusting a lawyer it not good advice in my opinion.
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 4:09:15 PM

Its not a question of trusting the government or not.

The government is not a person, it is an institution. It does not live, it does not think, it does not feel.

What is not to be trusted are elected officials and government employees. If there is a problem with the government, one or more of these elected officials and government employees are involved.

The elected officials can get rid of the government employees. To keep the elected officials honest, they need to be replaced on a regular basis.

Think about how we can get elected officials out of government so that they can be feel the benefits of their own stupidity.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:13:09 AM

Whenever government seeks additional information about you, it's never for your own good or protection. Never give them any information you don't have to.

As an example, a friend of mine who is an accountant told me is that if you end up being on the receiving end of an IRS audit one of the standard questions they ask you is if you have a safe deposit box and if you do they want to know where it is and the box number. It's considered perjury to lie to the IRS about anything they ask you, so if asked you must answer truthfully; but if you have a box the instant you leave the audit go empty it get one someplace else. You haven't lied then because at the moment they asked you gave a truthful answer.


mudtoe
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