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Author Topic: Does anyone else almost feel sorry for Boehner? Back to Topics
michaelphoenix2

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Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 3:19:46 PM

From watching him in these negotiations i get the feeling that he REALLY REALLY wants to accept the offers from the president and the democrats. I believe that he truly wants to work with them. Every time he starts to get close to a deal he gets a little tap on the shoulder from the far right reminding him that if he works with the president they will not vote for it.

On top of that his speakership is up in january. If he delivers too much of what the president wants, Eric Cantor is waiting in the wings with a dagger poised to strike at the speaker if he senses any weakness. On the flip side If no deal is reached most people will blame the republicans, the country as a whole will suffer, and he will take the blame for both of those from his own party, and Eric Cantor will be there.... waiting.

On top of all of this, a large chuck of the republican reps come from very very conservative districts that have been gerrymandered to death. Even IF they truly wanted to help get some of this legislation passed they can't vote for it. If they did and showed even a hint of bipartisianship they have more to fear from a primary challenge than they do from a election vs a democrat.

He is essentially in a no-win scenario. He cannot get the votes from his own party for either a conservative proposal, or a more democratic one. Odds are that he will be ousted by Cantor next Jan no matter what happens.

I do not envy this man. I believe he truly wants to work with the president and cut a deal. I kind of feel bad for him. A respectable republican is gonna have his career in tatters because of his inability to coral his members in a single cohesive party.

[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 12/29/2012 3:23:12 PM EST]
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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Michiganian
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 2:12:37 PM

>> "Michiganian--It may be hard to understand by some BUt the LIAR in chief i was speaking of!!"

Believe me, you have made your opinion quite clear - and on numerous threads! <<

Who the iggied liar called the "Liar in Chief" is NOT SO. Compare the President with the House Speaker.
President Obama's truth record
House Speaker Boehner's truth record.

So President Obama is more truthful than House Speaker Boehner. BTW, who was the iggied liar who made the claim???

[Edited by: Michiganian at 1/14/2013 2:15:42 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 1:43:08 PM

"Michiganian--It may be hard to understand by some BUt the LIAR in chief i was speaking of!!"

Believe me, you have made your opinion quite clear - and on numerous threads!
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daylily2009
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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2013 7:45:07 PM

Michiganian--It may be hard to understand by some BUt the LIAR in chief i was speaking of!!
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daylily2009
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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 10:05:39 PM

For having to go in same room with obama makes me feel for Mr. Boehner!!
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 3:13:17 PM

Makes one want to cry, doesn't it?
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Michiganian
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 2:20:00 PM

Could the lying crook be Eric Cantor?
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GLM4205
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 1:35:32 PM

I agree with mudtoe.
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 1:26:31 PM

"I think Mr Boehner is a statesman dealing with a lying CROOK!!"

And some folks think the universe is no more than about 6,000 years old, that the alignment of the planets and stars has a significant impact on their daily lives or that some numbers are luckier for them than others. It's pretty nice to be able to think whatever one chooses.
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daylily2009
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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 7:25:15 PM

the one I was referrring to is the biggest liar in washington obama
You know it is true!!
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 11:29:37 PM

"The biggest slap in the face? Three votes went to crazy tea party mouthpiece Allen West, who is no longer even in the House,"

"Slap in the face"? It doesn't seem that way to me. Rather, it seems the three who cast their votes for the ineligible Allen West were merely making a public declaration of their incompetence. I expect these three votes will be brought up the next time the three clowns stand for re-election. It remains to be seen whether their constituents will find their protest votes humorous.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 10:54:51 PM

"I think Mr Boehner is a statesman dealing with a lying CROOK!!"

There are 434 other members in the House - which of these are you referring?

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 1/3/2013 10:57:53 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 10:53:56 PM

"I don't believe for a second that Obama and the democrats will negotiate in good faith about entitlement reform"

I guess we'll see what we'll see; I certainly hope you are wrong.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 9:29:10 PM

"I think Mr Boehner is a statesman dealing with a lying CROOK!!"

Do you mean Eric Cantor or Mitch McConnell?
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daylily2009
Champion Author Fayetteville

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 9:22:57 PM

I think Mr Boehner is a statesman dealing with a lying CROOK!!
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michaelphoenix2
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 9:22:11 PM

Ydraig---- I know what you mean. The man has principals, but is willing to work with the other guys in order to accomplish something. I may not agree with his principals and ideas but i feel like if i ever met the man i could sit down and have a calm rational discussion with him.

Though if Eric Cantor ever became majority leader i would shudder. That guy from looks alone, creep me out. Nevermind his hard right tack.
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 8:31:54 PM

wsp: "That is why they are now going to be discussing what cuts to make in Congress... to help balance the budget."


I don't believe for a second that Obama and the democrats will negotiate in good faith about entitlement reform. It always comes down to: "I will gladly give you an entitlement cut on Tuesday, for a tax hike and debt ceiling increase today." What the republicans have failed to realize is that there are no Tuesdays in the democrats' calendar.


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/3/2013 8:33:54 PM EST]
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YDraigGoch
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 8:10:43 PM

I too feel sorry for the man. He appears to be a solid conservative, not a raging right wing fanatic willing to throw the country under the buss for political gain.

Like on the Sandy vote. He was holding back because there are a lot of hard core fanatics that call themselves Republicans, and they were dead set against it. Rather than have a big political fight at the end of the year, he tried to wait, hoping things would settle down a bit.

He knew there was a lot of pork in the bill. But he also knew that a lot people were hurting after months of delays from the political posturing by his own party. So when the public roared it's disapproval, he knew he could move. And he moved fast, despite the spiteful attempts to stop it.

But he got the blame for what others did. So yes, I do feel sorry for him.

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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:37:23 PM

"I don't consider adding to the deficit an "accomplishment". It's quite the opposite; so if the only choices are adding to the deficit or gridlock, then I choose gridlock."

That is why they are now going to be discussing what cuts to make in Congress... to help balance the budget. If there is gridlock then the deficit will continue to grow un-checked. Where are you getting your material from?

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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:41:50 PM

sgm: "Have you no sense of proportion at all? "


Actually, I thought the analogy very appropriate in a lot of ways.


Consider:

- Both men set out to change their countries in their image and were willing to go to whatever length's necessary to get there.

- Both men depend upon their personal charisma and oratory skills to convince a naive populace to go along with them.

- Both men are highly narcissistic and encourage a cult of personality among their followers. Obama with his Greek columns and the look of the satisfaction on his face as he overlooks adoring crowds are eerily similar to photos of Hitler looking over adoring crowds at the Nuremberg rallies in the 1930s.

- Both men used envy and resentment to implement their policies. Hitler had the Jews and Obama has the rich.

- Both men were Time Magazine's Man of the Year.

- Both men have remarkable skill at gauging the weakness of their opponents and exploiting it.

- Both men are highly adept at manipulating the media to carry their message and use personal attacks to vilify not only the message of their opponents, but their character and personhood.

- Both men had unusual childhoods and for a good part of their childhood there was no man in the house.

- Both men's early adult life was unremarkable and nobody who knew them then would have ever thought that they would amount to much, and in fact both were nearly invisible in society at the time.

- Both men wrote books describing what they would do if they ever gained power.

- Both men were severely underestimated by their early political opponents who didn't take them seriously.


The personalities of both man bear a remarkable resemblance to each other. Now admittedly Obama hasn't killed anyone yet, except perhaps for those four people in Benghazi, but that's something that is far more frowned upon in today's world than it was in the 1930s, and isn't something that can be gotten away with. Food for thought question is whether or not you think it would do it if he thought that would help achieve his goals and he thought that he could get away with it.


mudtoe



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EZExit
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 4:06:15 PM

Michael: <<<"Topic: Does anyone else almost feel sorry for Boehner?">>>

**********

I feel sorry for our country, the inevitable pain & economic turmoil that we will eventually endure by Washington's refusal to properly manage our books is going to be hard to watch.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 4:05:40 PM

Boehner Re-elected Speaker...Barely


Following a bruising first two years as speaker and leader of House Republicans, 10 conservative lawmakers cast votes for someone other than Boehner during a roll call vote in the first hours of the new Congress. Several other conservative Republicans abstained from voting. Boehner received 220 votes of a total of 426 cast.

While Boehner won re-election to the speakership with the overwhelming support of the GOP, he also narrowly avoided the 16 total defections from fellow Republicans that would have triggered a second ballot of House lawmakers on electing a speaker. That would have been the first time a second ballot was needed since 1923, and a mild embarrassment for Boehner.

The biggest slap in the face? Three votes went to crazy tea party mouthpiece Allen West, who is no longer even in the House, having lost his seat to Patrick Murphy.


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sgm4law
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 4:04:49 PM

"Obama has judged his opponents to be weak and spineless, just as Hitler rightly judged Britain and France to be weak and spineless as he gobbled up central Europe in 1938 and 1939."

Wow. Not only are you breaking Godwin's law, but you are comparing the President of this country dealing with political opposition to a warmongering, bloodthirsty, genocidal dictator. Have you no sense of proportion at all?
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 3:56:22 PM

wsp: "And by 'tougher' do you mean somebody even less inclined to compromise than Boehner? So more gridlock in Congress thus even less accomplished?"


I don't consider adding to the deficit an "accomplishment". It's quite the opposite; so if the only choices are adding to the deficit or gridlock, then I choose gridlock. Even though refusing to raise the debt ceiling will have no effect on lowering the existing deficit, it will at least stop the bleeding which is a good thing.

I believe the chances of our country avoiding a debt induced economic meltdown to be almost zero, but if there is a miniscule chance to be had it can only be by the House being willing to bring the government to its knees by not raising the debt ceiling and sticking to that position until meaningful entitlement and spending reform occurs, no matter how much the democrats scream and no matter how reviled they are in the MSM. They have to be willing to go all in and Obama and Reid have to believe that they are willing to force the issue right now no matter what the consequences. Most of the republicans have shown no such backbone though; so there is a 99.9% chance that they will cave and raise the debt ceiling in return for a vague promise of entitlement reform at some unspecified time in the future, just like they did a couple days ago.

Obama has judged his opponents to be weak and spineless, just as Hitler rightly judged Britain and France to be weak and spineless as he gobbled up central Europe in 1938 and 1939. In the end Britain and France finally did take action, but by then the price for their delay was terrible. In the end we may finally take action too, but only after a economic meltdown that will make the great depression look like a just a couple of down days in the stock market.


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/3/2013 3:58:58 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 3:37:16 PM

Probably a lot of truth in that Marty...
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 3:35:49 PM

"None of these vague cuts proposed by either party nor the revenue increase helps us NOW. It is about the next 10 years which is why you seem to fail to grasp Marty's point."

Their failure to grasp the point has more to do with who made the point than the actual point made.



"I am aware of the process, I was just wondering if anyone else thought it seemed like Cantor was hoping to be there if Boehner did not get reelected. He seems ready, shall we say?"

He does have that "lean and hungry look."

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/3/2013 3:37:46 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 3:27:34 PM

"That's why he should have been replaced as Speaker by somebody tougher."

And by 'tougher' do you mean somebody even less inclined to compromise than Boehner? So more gridlock in Congress thus even less accomplished?

If you think Boehner is weak, I'd invite you to look back at the last 2 years wehre the GOP didn't give an inch, especially during the debt ceiling talks. A lot of good that did...

The LAST thing Congress needs is more polarizing figures.

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 1/3/2013 3:32:55 PM EST]
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Michiganian
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 2:21:51 PM

Details about Boehner's re-election for House speaker.
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sgm4law
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:52:49 PM

Interesting that he was reelected.

I am aware of the process, I was just wondering if anyone else thought it seemed like Cantor was hoping to be there if Boehner did not get reelected. He seems ready, shall we say?
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:48:00 PM

daylily: "I feel sorry for Honorable Boehner for believing anything obama has said!! obama is a liar and Mr Boehner seemed to believe him..(at times)"



That's why he should have been replaced as Speaker by somebody tougher. Based on past performance there is no reason to believe he won't roll over once again in the upcoming debt ceiling negotiations.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/3/2013 1:50:00 PM EST]
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Michiganian
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:39:54 PM

Boehner was re-elected house speaker.
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daylily2009
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 1:14:43 PM

I feel sorry for Honorable Boehner for believing anything obama has said!!
obama is a liar and Mr Boehner seemed to believe him..(at times)
Harry reed liar in chief of all times and obama joins him!!!!!!

[Edited by: daylily2009 at 1/3/2013 1:16:58 PM EST]
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Michiganian
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 12:25:40 PM

>> If Boehner isn't reelected Speaker, would it fall to Eric Cantor? <<

Only if Cantor's running. If the GOP is split enough, it could go to Nancy Pelosi.
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florida1541
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 10:35:09 AM

no it does not automaticly fall to eric cantor it is possiabl for nacey .p to get the gavel back because it is a vote amongst all house rep , and whom ever gets the most votes wins
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sgm4law
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 10:11:05 AM

If Boehner isn't reelected Speaker, would it fall to Eric Cantor?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 9:54:50 AM

"Oh, and wasn't it Obama in his first campaign that said we needed to cut the budget, and go after it with a scalpel, rather than a machete? Great! Where's it at, Barry? Where is the cutting of waste, fraud and abuse of the entitlement systems? Where is the cutting of bureaucracies to deliver services more efficiently? And where is the elimination of dysfunctional government programs?"

The next 2 months will answer this question.

"The problem isn't one of revenue, it's one of overspending. And do people here not understand the simple wisdom and common sense of: "you can't spend more than you earn"? Or is that lost on some of our more liberal posters? Here, now, I'd like you to try an experiment - why not spend more money than you make for the next three months and see where that gets you?"

The problem is indeed one of overspending - by both Parties (not just liberals as you seem to believe). Unfortunately it has gotten so out of hand in the last decade that cutting spending to a level not detrimental to the economy is insufficient - additional revenue is needed as well.

"OK, with respect to the above, I'd like you to explain to all of us how that works, and how that helps us NOW? Please, educate me. And please post it in your own words. Don't post some obscure link. Explain it to us succinctly and clearly."

None of these vague cuts proposed by either party nor the revenue increase helps us NOW. It is about the next 10 years which is why you seem to fail to grasp Marty's point.
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I75at7AM
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 9:34:06 AM

Will Boehner be re-elected as Speaker of the House? (Vote is in 2-1/2 hours)

Conservative group: Boehner will not be re-elected

"A conservative group aiming to oust John Boehner as speaker of the House said on Wednesday that they have commitments from enough Republicans in Congress to deliver the political surprise of the year and deny the Ohio Republican another two years with the speaker’s gavel."

"Ron Meyer of the group American Majority Action wrote in an email Wednesday evening. “He will either resign or be forced out tomorrow.”"

"Reached for comment, Boehner spokesman Michael Steel simply said, “Who are they?”"
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nascar7
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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 7:42:03 AM

no no one made him take the job-he can quit and be very well off
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streetrider
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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 11:42:10 PM

He Has a very tough job
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KatmanDo
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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 11:35:11 PM

"What I see is that the Reps have agreed to some tax increases, but Obama and the Senate Dems have been TOTALLY INTRACTABLE with respect to budget cuts."

I have yet to hear any actual details about the spending cuts proposed by either side, just vague, often-repeated characterizations of what the other side is up to. Just lay out the specific details of what you propose to cut and then everyone can decide for themselves which side is doing what. Keep your conclusions to yourselves, politicians.
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 10:58:58 AM

mp2 in his base post started: "From watching him in these negotiations i get the feeling that he REALLY REALLY wants to accept the offers from the president and the democrats. I believe that he truly wants to work with them. Every time he starts to get close to a deal he gets a little tap on the shoulder from the far right reminding him that if he works with the president they will not vote for it."

--Hmmm... I'm seeing it a bit differently than you. What I see is that the Reps have agreed to some tax increases, but Obama and the Senate Dems have been TOTALLY INTRACTABLE with respect to budget cuts. And I think some people here on the left don't understand that "cuts in future spending" are not REAL CUTS RIGHT NOW. I agree with e-jeepin - we FIRST need to freeze or fix spending levels. The next thing we do is to whittle away cuts from there.

Oh, and wasn't it Obama in his first campaign that said we needed to cut the budget, and go after it with a scalpel, rather than a machete? Great! Where's it at, Barry? Where is the cutting of waste, fraud and abuse of the entitlement systems? Where is the cutting of bureaucracies to deliver services more efficiently? And where is the elimination of dysfunctional government programs?

IMHO, we're "Taxed Enough Already". The problem isn't one of revenue, it's one of overspending. And do people here not understand the simple wisdom and common sense of: "you can't spend more than you earn"? Or is that lost on some of our more liberal posters? Here, now, I'd like you to try an experiment - why not spend more money than you make for the next three months and see where that gets you?

OH, and Marty said: "Actually, a cutback on planned spending is a spending cut."

--OK, with respect to the above, I'd like you to explain to all of us how that works, and how that helps us NOW? Please, educate me. And please post it in your own words. Don't post some obscure link. Explain it to us succinctly and clearly.

[Edited by: AC-302 at 12/30/2012 11:06:14 AM EST]
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 9:54:05 AM

"I hear ya speedster...though dont you have the year wrong? Its only 2 more years and we have another shot at voting the republican house out."

If only...
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 8:34:44 AM

"Again, reduction in the rate of cash outlays increases is not a real spending cut."

Actually, a cutback on planned spending is a spending cut.



"Besides your figures are for 10 years which all net "savings" will be consumed by increases in "slower" spending within 24 months."

I believe all of the figures under discussion (both now and a year ago) are for a 10 year period.




"So far, the best thing mentioned for America is the "Fiscal Cliff", and even that stops short of fixing America's hemorrhaging of the debt."

There are other options available if Congress fails to act.
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Michiganian
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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 7:46:13 AM

I don't feel sorry for Boner at all.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 2:38:18 AM

<<<"Compared to the $1 Trillion in revenue and $1 Trillion in cuts proposed by Boehner? Seems pretty similar - are you going to vent about how bad that deal is too?">>>

*********
I will, we need to cut the budget and increase taxes in order to reduce the public debt year after year, slowing down the growth of the debt just puts off the inevitable reckoning and economic collapse. We need to learn what a budget means.

<<<"What does one have to do with the other? By 'chopped off at the knees' do you mean 'lending corporations and CEO's money through TARP'?">>>

********

TARP did not lend CEO's any money, but it did borrow even more money that we don't have to give to handpicked companies, mostly benefiting bankers and union companies, but not doing anything for the rest of America. I detect some resentment about the CEO's of these companies getting hefty bonuses, be sure to thank your democratic man in the white house for that, he made it possible.

Now companies face several tax increases along with additional costs and red tape created by ObamaCare© not even taking into account additional taxes coming soon from whatever comes out of Washington soon. So far, the best thing mentioned for America is the "Fiscal Cliff", and even that stops short of fixing America's hemorrhaging of the debt.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 2:21:37 AM

>>1.2 trillion in new revenue and 800 bil in cuts 2 trillion...not bad if you ask me<<

1.2 trillion = 800 billion?

Is that going to help the national debt death spiral?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 12:24:29 AM

"This is not bad? You must be kidding!"

Compared to the $1 Trillion in revenue and $1 Trillion in cuts proposed by Boehner? Seems pretty similar - are you going to vent about how bad that deal is too?

"If Obama hadn't chopped corporations and CEOs off at the knees in 2009, there might be more domestic growth today -- and tax revenues."

What does one have to do with the other? By 'chopped off at the knees' do you mean 'lending corporations and CEO's money through TARP'?
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e_jeepin
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Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 11:00:37 PM

"1.2 trillion in new revenue and 800 bil in cuts 2 trillion...not bad if you ask me"

Again, reduction in the rate of cash outlays increases is not a real spending cut. Freeze growth and that is compromise!

Besides your figures are for 10 years which all net "savings" will be consumed by increases in "slower" spending within 24 months.

So -- 200B more in the govt tax coffers annually, however 100B spending still increases annually (was 200B)

This is not bad? You must be kidding!

If Obama hadn't chopped corporations and CEOs off at the knees in 2009, there might be more domestic growth today -- and tax revenues.

The more he talks, the further our economy decays.

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michaelphoenix2
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Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 9:29:30 PM

1.2 trillion in new revenue and 800 bil in cuts 2 trillion...not bad if you ask me
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 7:33:53 PM

Obama has proposed $800 Billion in Cuts...
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,609
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Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 6:20:57 PM

Has Obama, the democratically controlled Congress, anyone proposed anything that is going to stop the out of control government spending and the national debt spiral?
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