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Author Topic: Chinese Labor Camp Worker Puts Plea For Help Into American Product Back to Topics
SemiSteve

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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 6:15:35 PM

Story

" "Sir, if you occasionally buy this product, please kindly resend this letter to the World Human Right Organization. Thousands people here who are under the persicution of the Chinese Communist Party Government will thank and remember you forever."

""People who work here have to work 15 hours a day without Saturday, Sunday break and any holidays. Otherwise, they will suffer torturement, beat and rude remark. Nearly no payment (10 yuan/1 month)." That translates to about $1.61 a month. "

--Oh, but we are getting lower prices everyday!
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:34:33 PM

Slavery continues somewhere.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2013 12:52:58 PM

"Envirokooks" -laughing- Cute label. I think you may be allowing your view of environmentalists be skewed, though, by the extremists within those ranks. Not everyone with concern for our habitat is willing to protest is radical ways.

Even though I voted for McGovern I certainly do acknowledge the good things that Nixon did. He was more liberal than LBJ in many ways. Yes, I did know that he started the EPA.

" ...largely, the law has be set up so that "LPOH" > "IGMTHWY"."

--Good thing. If it were not they would run slip-shod. You know they would.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 10:13:59 PM

Steve - I like the idea, in general of "LPOH". And largely, the law has be set up so that "LPOH" > "IGMTHWY". IT's all started with the Environmental laws of the late 60s, early 70s that created the EPA. YOU know, under Richard Nixon? Were you aware of that? Can you actually believe Nixon did some good things, or is that not within your worldview?

Seriously, the laws and envirokooks have now gone overboard. I mean, here in LaLa land, we had ELF (Environmental Liberation Front) bash up a bunch of SUVS on dealer lots, for example. Others have torn down power lines, or sat in old, but diseased trees that needed to be taken down.

What I don't seen in the movement of the envirokooks is balance. Nowhere do the envirokooks balance the needs of humans and society with the needs of nature. There are kooks out there that believe we ought to live for nature, rather than balancing nature.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 10:07:51 PM

Steve === proggie/libs is a form of shorthand for Progressive liberals.

I used to call Environmentalists other things until Jayrad requested I don't. Now I call them environmentalists or treehuggers.

I still say that taking the best growing sites in the world out of production because treehuggers don't like to see logging is crazy. It is counterproductive to put it mildly. The ultimate renewable resource is wood and we are not being allowed to use it because some people don't understand how the real environment really works. Properly managed (that means with no or minimal adverse impact to other resources) a good forester in the west coast forests can grow the wood needed for about a half or third of a house every acre every year. But we think its fine to shut down management there and let it get killed by insects and fires and then we import wood from Siberia where he growth rate is too low to replenish what is being cut. Stupid is as stupid does.


[Edited by: flyboyUT at 1/18/2013 10:09:08 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2013 2:42:52 PM

Trying to blame our ills on froggie lips (or whatever it is you said) is being selectively unrealistic. Conservatives and richly rewarded greed are responsible for far more of our problems.

IGMTHWY is costing us way more than LPOH (Let's Protect Our Habitat).

You may think that regulations are costly but it is overly simplistic to say "Oh, but that adds cost to each product" and look no further. The hidden costs of NOT ensuring safety and habitat-stewardship add up. How much of our spending is to clean up environmental disasters that were left behind by IGMTHWY? How many benefits do we pay to people who are disabled because of chemicals and unsafe practices? Mother Jones' current issue has an article about the devastating effects of leaded gasoline, the criminal element. Costs almost too great to even estimate, ranging from increased crime to ADHD kids.

We are not proactive enough. You've heard the saying 'Education Prevents Prisons'? Well this one goes far beyond that. Instead of dealing with mental health issues head on ($10 - $12K per year per individual) we simply let them go and get in trouble and then lock 'em up in prison ($25 - $35K per year per individual), after spending money on police and courts to put them there. But that convenience comes with a high price. Those prison costs are growing as the prison population ages. Now we are dealing with geriatric prisoners who have spent more of their lives behind bars. Now we have to pay for their advancing age health related issues as well. Funny how all those 'tough on crime' folks now claim we are 'Taxed Enough Already.' Well guess where a lot of our tax dollars are going???

When are we going to realize that prisons are not the most cost effective method for dealing with social issues?
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 17, 2013 11:09:49 AM

"--You think we are going to balance our imports by exporting wood?"

No and I never said that Steve. What I did say is that artificially reducing our growth, harvest and export of wood because of environmentalist political nonsense is dumb. Then when you add that dumb ting in with all the other dumb things that all too many proggie/libs want it creates a huge imbalance in trade such as we have now.

Have you looked up the results or effects of protectionist tariffs yet Steve? We may have the highest paid union steel workers in the world - it's a shame the rest of the world told us they will buy their steel not from us any more but from other places that sell the same steel for less money.

Steve go look up in New England - where we used to have lots of big show factories. Look down south where we had lots of textile mills. Ask yourself why they aren't there much any more. Ask yourself why we are among the worlds largest seller of wheat and other grains.

Reality bites in the long run. Regardless of how bad proggie/lib politicians want water to run uphill at no cost sooner or later the cost to run the pumps to pump it there gets too high.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 17, 2013 10:47:44 AM

flyboy: "Steve we live in a global economy. Learn to live with it or we will get left behind to wither on the vine and die. "

mudtoe: "That's an admission that the left can never make, even tacitly."

--BALONEY ALERT!!! I really have to laugh when you say things like this. I am constantly amazed that you think you know so much about the left. You don't know baloney about the left. The right's version of the left is a joke. Made-up junk not based on reality and certainly not based on what the left really says. Nothing but right-based pundits capitalizing on the fears of the right and making up things about the left based on out-of-context snippets. I am saying right know I understand we live in a global economy. Never claimed we didn't. Ready and able to live with it. It is what the left has been doing all along.

flyboy: "If we want to compete we will emphasize what we can do better for less cost and sell it. Then we can use the money gained to import what others do best."

--You think we are going to balance our imports by exporting wood? I don't think your numbers are going to add up. And you also claim that we can grow crops better than anyone else. Why? Don't you think our global corporations are going to export the technology and use cheaper labor overseas to do that too? When are you going to admit that they have a lower standard of living and wages overseas and they can do virtually anything we can do for lower cost as a result? Their standard of living does not include protections for workers, product safety or the environment. They are like we were 100 years ago. Until we force these advancements to accompany the technology being used to exploit cheap overseas labor we will lose the competition. We are losing the race to the bottom. We don't need to be in that race. We need to enter races which are a fair competition, with everyone playing by the same rules. We have made rules for ourselves that we don't hold them to. We either do away with all of our own rules such as child labor, 40 hour week, overtime, fire protections, product safety, pollution standards, etc etc etc or we require them to do the same things, or we attach a value to the difference in the prices of the products.

Doesn't it strike you as strange that you can buy a pair of shoes for $20 but you couldn't possibly buy the materials and make that same pair in the US for that same price? Why do you think that is? There is a reason, you know. Big corporations aren't asking why. They are merely exploiting the differences and pocketing big bux.

"But until we can look reality in the face we will continue to make dumb decisions. The world doesn't live or operate on what we might wish - it operates on what is."

--On this point I totally agree. But your version of facing reality and mine are entirely different. I think it is a dumb decision to blindly go forward while ignoring the fact that our economy is bleeding to death because of the imbalances I outlined above. I think the wise decision would be to examine why these cost differentials exist and to take measures to equalize them before we have drained all of our capital.
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mudtoe
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 11:09:07 PM

flyboy: "Steve we live in a global economy. Learn to live with it or we will get left behind to wither on the vine and die. "


That's an admission that the left can never make, even tacitly. If they do, then they must acknowledge that all their silly rules, regulations, and laws end at the border, and that people and capital are able to vote with their feet to escape. Therefore, no such admission can ever be made; because if they did, who would ever believe them when they said stuff like a U.S. carbon tax will save the planet when they've already admitted that they can't prevent people and money from leaving to avoid it. They've got a real catch-22 problem when it comes to the global economy.


mudtoe
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 10:22:30 PM

Which side am I on??? Your serious right?

Hey if you have a beef with how trade with China is going - go talk to Clinton - didn't he 'negotiate' the deal you're talking about?

But to get back to reality now. Did you bother to look up the effects of the sugar tariffs on the US economy? Just how well is our steel industry doing with the tariffs we had on imported steel? If you artificially raise the price of things we need and use to benefit one small group of people what effects does it have on the rest of us?

Steve we live in a global economy. Learn to live with it or we will get left behind to wither on the vine and die.

There are things we can do better than anyone else farming comes to mind. I also know we can grow more high quality softwood timber than probably anyone else on earth - yet we won't let land owners/managers grow it or harvest it. But we import our large part of our softwood needs from outside. That is nuts. We used to be a major exporter of wood products. In my career as a forester we used to export raw logs to the Asian nations for roughly a thousand dollars per thousand BF of wood. Then we would take that same thousand dollars and buy sawn dimension lumber from Canada for about 300 bucks per thousand. We stopped for political reasons but are still importing - why????

If we want to compete we will emphasize what we can do better for less cost and sell it. Then we can use the money gained to import what others do best.

But until we can look reality in the face we will continue to make dumb decisions. The world doesn't live or operate on what we might wish - it operates on what is.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 10:06:50 PM

this fake story needs to be closed, it was a hoax anyhow
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 9:30:38 PM

fly, what about when Clinton set up this whole China trade thing? It was supposed to be equal trade. They buy as many of our products as we buy of theirs. But that has not happened. It is out of whack. It is imbalanced. Our national economy is being drained. We can not let that continue. It needs to be even trade.

The reason is they do not protect their workers or the environment like we do. Until they do we would be justified in applying tariffs to equal out the imbalance.

Whose side are you on, anyway? USA or China?

You think we should be in a race to the bottom?
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 10:28:27 PM

Why Marty the poor here you keep on claiming to be so worried about. Look at the concequences of putting tariffs on products. Who pays them? What happens to the prices of the products in the local stores?

Do your self a favor - do some research on what the effects were of high tariffs on two things - steel and sugar.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 8:56:54 PM

"If our workers could live on $20 a day and we didn't care about pollution or safety then we could be competitive in the race to the bottom."

Wouldn't hurt our corporate execs to live on proportionately less, either.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 6:54:16 PM

AC: "Steve - what does that 'race to the bottom' even mean?"

--Glad you asked.

I define the 'race to the bottom' as: Competing to a lower and lower level in the zeal for savings.

This is happening in business as domestic businesses try to compete with foreign ones who have much lower costs to produce products. The lower costs are mostly labor, but also regulatory compliance and taxes. Domestic businesses are competing with people who do not have our standard of living, nations that do not spend what we do on pollution avoidance, worker safety, product safety, worker rights. It is a competition that we do not want to win because the only way to win it is to scrap labor and safety laws and drastically lower our standard of living for workers.

If our workers could live on $20 a day and we didn't care about pollution or safety then we could be competitive in the race to the bottom. But we don't want to do that so this is a race we can not win. We like our standard of living and we don't want to go backwards. Corporate executives would love it if we could do all the things needed to win the race to the bottom but the workers would not like it at all. We would have to bring back child labor, end overtime pay, end the 8 hour work day, end the 40 hour week, abandon OSHA, etc. Basically we would undo every employment advancement since 1900.

If we want to compete with China, we would essentially have to become like China.

I seriously don't think we really want to do that so we have to draw the line somewhere. We have to say no. We have to say we have a minimum standard of how people get treated and we are not going below that. And since doing this makes it impossible to compete in the race to the bottom we simply stay out of that race by attachnig requirements to product imports. For every cheap imported item on an American store shelf an American worker has paid for it by being laid off, and our nation has paid for it by losing the revenue that worker would have paid in taxes and we all pay for it by incurring the resultant increased federal debt.

No way around that relationship.

We do not want to be in the race to the bottom. It is like a nation slowly bleeding to death.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 12:19:01 PM

"The second part - fine if you want to place a substantial hidden tax on the poor who you keep claiming to like so much."

Which poor are you talking about? The poor in America, or the poor in China?



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/12/2013 12:21:10 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 11:59:02 AM

Marty sez - "Make the public aware through the news. Make the public care by increasing tariffs. "

First part is fine - let the news organizations do whatever they wish within the law.

The second part - fine if you want to place a substantial hidden tax on the poor who you keep claiming to like so much. Stop and ponder the real consequences of doing what you said Marty - who pays the tariff? Is this another case of 'just do something that will make us feel all warm and fuzzy' - but lets not think of what the effects are...
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 5:38:02 AM

this was a stupid-already known - kind of - fact anyhow and it's a hoax letter, obviously made up by "some 8 year old Chinese child who is fluent in English and composition - not sure where or why the op even posted this thread except to say . . .
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AC-302
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2013 1:58:00 AM

Steve - what does that 'race to the bottom' even mean?

I realize, like the spaghetti, you're trying to make something stick to the wall. Here in America, we pay our labor high rates versus other countries. Let's use my laundry basket example. If I have a company that stamps out cheap plastic laundry baskets, and I can save 30% in labor costs, then why would I want to make them in America? Particularly if another company, making offshore, is kicking my butt in the marketplace on price?

If it's simply uneconomical to make something here, then we ought not to make it. Shipbuilding is an example of that. At one time the US made ships for the world. Not anymore. Our shipbuilders priced themselves out of all but the US military market.
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 7:03:15 AM

Make the public aware through the news. Make the public care by increasing tariffs.
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 11, 2013 5:19:05 AM

fly, ss brought up this topic because it gets attention - even tho it has all the dressings of a hoax
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 7:06:34 PM

So inform the public of the evils of the porducts Steve. Let them make the decisions if they want to buy or not.

Whyu is your answer to every single concern either more taxes, more governemnt control of how we live or some combination of both?

What is it that you just dont trust people to do waht they want for themselves?

You are the one bringing up new and more regulations. I said nothing about any existing rules did I? I just obvjected to your constant cry for ever more regulations and taxes and government control of people.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 6:23:44 PM

Sounds nice, fly. Freedom from pesky worker safety, product safety and environmental protection laws and regulations. That would make it so much easier for the super-rich to get even richer! But do you really want to bring back child labor, no overtime pay and get rid of OSHA? I thought we had come too far to go back there.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 5:40:32 PM

Steve how about we just let the people of the US live their lives without being told what to buy and what to eat and how to live as the politicians see fit for a change.

If the people as a whole (or enough of them) dont want to buy stuff from these companies they will either confrom to the desires of the public
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 5:17:15 PM

No, fly. I think we should require that all products sold in the USA conform to all of the regulations we require of US manufacturers, including worker treatment. If they don't conform, affix a tariff to the product. It is not fair to US manufacturers to have to comply with a set of rules that their competition does not. It makes them less competitive.
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Cliffisher
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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 11:23:36 AM

That twelve year old wrote a good letter.

[Edited by: Cliffisher at 1/9/2013 11:23:55 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 10:48:00 AM

eve says - "So fly, you think we ought to just let it be?

Do nothing?

Keep on buying the products that pay for the torture? "

/sarc - So Steve you think we should just invade China and force peace adn freedom and unions on them? Who do youwant to tax to pay for it? Will you be in the leading wave on the beach?
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 8:57:44 AM

"I am guessing more than half the people posting on this board have their income because of big corporations."

A tautology.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 7:53:05 AM

"I am guessing more than half the people posting on this board have their income because of big corporations."

--Then you guessed wrong. More people have jobs because of small business than big. That's where the most job creation takes place.

"So what do you propose...shutting them all down and we go back to the stone ages? "

--That's what you said. Not me.

Here's what I say: Government needs to regulate them very stringently. Big corporations are like unsupervised teenagers loose with great power. As AC-302 has said and I agree, the ones that are 'too big to fail' must be broken up. 'Too big to fail' is too big to exist, too big to allow to be loose and predatory on a naive public. And the ones which are not TBTF are throwing their weight around and taking advantage of unsuspecting workers and consumers.

Here's the problem: Big corporations use the power of their money to control government. That's backwards. We, the people, depend on our government to prevent the powerful and greedy from exploiting us. When the powerful and greedy have more influence over our government than we do that protection is broken.

Example: Ever heard of the Trans Pacific Partnership? Big corporations in nations spanning the largest ocean are now negotiating a set of rules which would override anything governments try to do to curtail them. That's right. They are making up rules which would apply to us and saying our own congress has no power to control them. And it is all being kept very low key and secretive. Making up rules we are going to have to live by and saying we can have no input and no way to opt out.

"Branded as a “trade deal” by its corporate proponents, the TPP would actually establish new corporate rights to undermine environmental and health laws, offshore millions of American jobs, flood the US with untested food products, and extend the duration of medical patents. Its expansive non-trade provisions would impose constraints on government regulation of financial firms and food safety. As the Huffington Post’s Zach Carter reported, the TPP would even ban the widely popular “Buy America” procurement policy."

The Nation: TPP

"Closed-door talks are on-going between the U.S. and Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam; with countries like Japan and China potentially joining later. 600 corporate advisors have access to the text, while the public, Members of Congress, journalists, and civil society are excluded."

Public Citizen: TPP
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 9, 2013 7:09:34 AM

"So what do you propose...shutting them all down and we go back to the stone ages?"

The alternative to big corporations isn't the stone ages; it's lots of small businesses. You know... those things that Republicans talk about but never get around to actually helping to thrive.

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/9/2013 7:12:44 AM EST]
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AFSNCO
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:50:55 PM

"Big corps are usually behind the nastiness of of governments."

And where would we be without big corporations?

You are obviously using a computer probably produced by a big corporation. You most likely drive an automobile built by a big corporation. I bet you got up this morning had your cup of ocffee and went to the bathroom and wiped your butt with toilet paper that came from a big corporation. I am guessing more than half the people posting on this board have their income because of big corporations. So what do you propose...shutting them all down and we go back to the stone ages?
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jdhelm
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:50:47 PM

if you stop and think about this alledged letter, it doesn't appear truthfully written by some chinese laborer - seriously
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 10:29:23 PM

So fly, you think we ought to just let it be?

Do nothing?

Keep on buying the products that pay for the torture?
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 6:47:17 PM

You know what they say when someone brings Hitler into the argument.

Where did Chairman Mao buy his guns? His uniforms? His tanks? His fuel?

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/7/2013 6:50:11 PM EST]
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 6:11:56 PM

Steve, you would be a great writer of fictional books, probably a best seller.
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 6:07:08 PM

Oh you must be talking about big corporations like this then.....
.
>>>A noted expert in calculating the number of deaths caused by authoritarian regimes says the late Chinese communist leader Mao Tse-tung’s policies and actions led to the deaths of nearly 77 million of his countrymen, surpassing those killed by Nazi Party founder Adolf Hitler and Soviet Premier Josef Stalin.<<<

Any guesses as to just what corporations were involved?
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 6:00:26 PM

Marty, you keep beating me to the punch. Took the post write out of my keyboard!

Big corps are usually behind the nastiness of of governments.
Greed is the motivator.

Eisenhower warned us on his last day as Pres. He saw it all coming.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present."

When weapons makers can pay staffs to make nicey-nice with legislators and urge them towards military engagements where their weapons will be used, just so the executives of the weapons builders can earn vast incomes and profits, the corruption is complete.

And similarly, when ordinary consumer products makers can pay staffs to make nicey-nice with legislators and urge them to relax regulations which might protect people or the environment in which we all live or to simply turn over the regulator process to the ones being regulated the corruption is complete.

Why is it that we heavily regulate the manufacturing process, down to the treatment of employees and the environment, for American made products but place no such restrictions on imported ones? Is it because there are a lot of very rich people who stand to get richer if we don't? How could there be any other plausible reason?
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noseatbelt
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 5:50:06 PM

I worry a lot more about the collusion of big government, with big cash.

The president is doing exactly what he is paid to do, wealth envy, class warfare, dividing the country every way he can, lieing, threating, bribing, to get his way. Obama is being paid way to much.

[Edited by: noseatbelt at 1/7/2013 5:57:53 PM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 5:44:43 PM

"Marty how many people have been murdered, starved, tortured and beaten plus more ugly things by corporations and how many as official policy of governments?"

You talk as though corporations and governments are completely independent of one another. When governments murder, starve, torture, and beat people you can bet that one or more corporations are reaping profits because of it and are, in fact, behind all that atrocity.



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/7/2013 5:47:03 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 5:40:59 PM

Steve your nonstop rants on how evil business is can be matched by similar rants on how bad government is. Yet you like the first and dontr seem to like the latter. But you cant have it both ways.

Maybe you can answer this "Marty how many people have been murdered, starved, tortured and beaten plus more ugly things by corporations and how many as official policy of governments?"

I would hazard a guess that big government has done more damage to people and other things you hold dear than business ever has - but it seems you just wont, cant, or choose not to see it.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 5:14:49 PM

Tell me fly.

Must every thread devolve into another 'I hate Obama' rant?

The President is doing exactly what he is paid to do. And who is paying for it? We the people. And do we expect to get something in return for what we are paying? Of course we do. It's a tough job trying to figure out what is best for the nation and then attempt to deliver it.

Big corporations expect to get something in return for their money, too. They want special favors for money spent on campaigns and lobbying. But those elected officials who give in to them are not representing we the people when they do so.

Big corporations have shown that they don't care about people. Any way they can lower their costs seems to be fine with them. Torturing laborers included. It sounds so distasteful that some here simply choose not to believe it. I guess it would bother their conscience to know just what goes into 'lower prices every day.'

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 5:00:45 PM

"Governments do not spend money on campaigns and lobbying." Steve - ever look at what it costs for Obama to fly all over and camgaign for his ideas? Start at roughly $182,000 per flight hour for his plane then start adding in all the costs for personnel and stuff for him from the Feds plus all the costs locally whenever his toy touches down.
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Marty how many people have been murdered, starved, tortured and beaten plus more ugly things by corporations and how many as official policy of governments?
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 4:52:03 PM

If you believe the story you might have to stop shopping at Walmart and such. You might have to start paying enough for products to support your fellow rank and file Americans instead of the greedy 1%.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 4:09:30 PM

I still don't believe this story, and certainly seriously doubt any "Chinese Labor camp worker" wrote this letter - no way they can write English or compose a letter like this. It has all the markings of a hoax. If it truly were some poor chinese worker in a labor camp/sweat shop, it would probably be written on some other form of paper, and not on what we Amercians buy as a tablet of lined/rule notebook paper, and it would likely be in Chinese - not english.

Although I agree with the "story contens of the letter, I think it would be proven to be a hoax and simply cannot be true - think about it.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 1:43:34 PM

"Large governments have no conscience or morals."

To the extent that large corporations influence government, that's true.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 1:13:41 PM

Naw flyboyUT, but nice try. It makes no sense the way you mangled it. Governments do not spend money on campaigns and lobbying.

And governments do not make profits, nor do the incomes of their executives depend on how much of a profit the organization makes.

But the fact that you attempted to ignore the collusion of big corporations with big cash and shift the blame to the government shows how ingrained this penchant for excusing the dark side of capitalism really is.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 12:42:34 PM

"Large governments have no conscience or morals. Generally, the larger they are the more likely they are to be greedy. Contrary to what some politicians think, they are not human. What little oversight attempted upon them by the people is frequently corrupted by heavy government money influence/control. They spend big on campaigns and lobbying and expect returns for their large expenditures. They want to (and often do) control their own regulation! It's not like big governments are about to spend money which does not affect their bottom line.

Some people need to wise up."There Steve --- all fixed to make better sense.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 11:30:06 AM

I do not understand this penchant for excusing the dark side of capitalism. It is as if some want to believe that big corporations are so angelic that are incapable of wrongdoing. Realistically what they are are greed machines built out of replaceable humans.

Large corporations have no conscience or morals. Generally, the larger they are the more likely they are to be greedy. Contrary to what some politicians think, they are not human. What little oversight attempted upon them by governments is frequently corrupted by heavy corporate money influence/control. They spend big on campaigns and lobbying and expect returns for their large expenditures. They want to (and often do) control their own regulation! It's not like big corporations are about to spend money which does not affect their bottom line.

Some people need to wise up.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 8:36:06 AM

not that Snopes - is the "total authority" on truth or fiction, but - - - looking at the letter and trying to fathom that some Chinese laborer wrote this - - - ummmm-m, seriouly?

I'd doubt many can write that good in English. Why not in French or - - - Chinese?

I'd guess this is merely a story fabricated by someone. Besides, the phrasing of the letter doesn't seem to belong to some 'poor' laborer. I'd doubt that the laborers even know of a WHRO.

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 7:15:16 AM

There's clearly sufficient capitalism in China that American businesses are willing to turn a blind eye to the communist / socialist political systems and set up shop there. The American way? Feh.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 9:29:52 PM

"Would this make China a "Right to Work" state?"

No, exactly the opposite. People have to belong to the "union" that is the Chinese socialist system. They are compelled to do what the government tells them to do and how to vote like the government tells them to...just like being in a union in the United States. If you go against them you find yourself unemployed and shunned...just like a union will do.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 9:26:57 PM

"I thought this was the type of communist or socialist type of political system that many GB's here have been pushing for."

Ding...ding...ding...we have a winner!
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