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Author Topic: The NRA's idea does not work. Back to Topics
Michiganian

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Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 4:11:46 PM

Just ask the survivors at Columbine HS, Fort Hood and Virginia Tech.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 12:55:45 PM

"Been listening to Biden too much? ;)"

I don't care who you are, what ever you do don't listen to biden.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 11:07:08 AM

I am guessing this is why fly favors .45 ACP.

Always glad to play, fly.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 10:25:52 AM

flyboyUT, did you hear about the young woman, 23 years old, who defended herself from a Grizzly Bear with a .22 derringer?

When the 700 pound full grown male Grizzly attacked, she shot her boyfriend in the knee and escaped unharmed...

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 10:21:02 AM

SE - I was just having some fun with you - you know continuing on the nonstop discussion of 45 vs 9mm. If the situation ever comes when someone needs a firearm to defend them self any type is better than none.

I am really glad to live in an area where it is a moot point. Here the number of CC is very very high and almost everyone has a "home defense" of some type. the crime rate is exceptionally low and I never miss selling my guns some years back. There are times I would still like to go out and shoot for fun but I dont feel any need to have one to protect myself.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 9:51:58 AM

More important that bore size or magazine capacity is the fact that many passive appearing people do carry weapons and will defend themselves. A .38 special hollow-point from a J frame Smith is still going to hurt.

A couple years before my Dad died, he was strong-armed in a casino parking lot. Casinos are gun free zones, by the way. My Dad was 84 at the time and was confronted by four young guys demanding money. They pushed him around a little and one accompanied him into his 5th wheel to get cash.

My Dad opened the overhead cabinet that contained an envelope with $440 and a loaded .357 magnum. The guy wasn't armed so, my Dad elected to hand him the envelope. The only reason that dirtball is alive is my Dad did not want to spend the afternoon in a police station explaining what happened or worse go to jail for killing someone. He just wanted to spend the afternoon in the casino.

I'm certain that had that dirtball known he was entering a snake den, he would have rethought his actions. There's no question, shooting the guy was one of the options weighed in the few seconds he stood in that trailer. People who threaten the lives of peaceful people need to understand some have the means to defend themselves. Perhaps some public service announcements are in order.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 8:59:33 AM

"No grab the 12ga from under the couch."

Been listening to Biden too much? ;)
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 8:58:59 AM

My 9mm has a 15 round magazine. I practice every week, and I can put all 15 in center mass at 25 yards. I am not worried about needing a bigger or a hotter round.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 8:56:33 AM

"Living in St. Louis and working less than 5 miles from the heart of the violence and 2 miles from the site of the sandwich shooter you better believe I'm armed on my way home."

I hope I am never faced with those circumstances! I can understand why you would carry...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 12:43:57 AM

Living in St. Louis and working less than 5 miles from the heart of the violence and 2 miles from the site of the sandwich shooter you better believe I'm armed on my way home.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2014 12:08:49 AM

We moved out of Illinois. We now carry. Referring the question of imprint under my shirt, the new comment from my wife: "Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just getting fat."

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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 10:43:20 PM

A .40 or 10mm will do that just fine.

And give you a few more tries.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 10:31:31 PM

SE I would prefer a 45 ACP with some hot HP rounds rather than a 9mm. I dont want to irritate them I want them dead.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 10:27:05 PM

" If my front (back) door crashes, will the cell phone in my wife's purse or the 9mm next to my lazy boy provide us with the greatest protection?"

No grab the 12ga from under the couch.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 6:02:02 PM

teacher_tim - "Just Google top liberal web sites or top conservative web sites."

Most of the results are several years old.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 5:49:41 PM

Thugs (white and black) are engaging in a lot of home invasions lately. If my front (back) door crashes, will the cell phone in my wife's purse or the 9mm next to my lazy boy provide us with the greatest protection?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 4:30:57 PM

"You get the same sort of thing from dogmatic right-wing sites. Just demonstrates the truth of something from Albert Einstein: "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions that differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.""

Agreed.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 2:50:58 PM

c/net has a good listing of impartial sites.

Just Google top liberal web sites or top conservative web sites.

There are several rankings and some give scores for bias. Yes, the conservatives have their Drudge Report and Heritage Foundation to the liberals' Daily Kos and Salon.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 2:45:58 PM

teacher_tim - "They probably did you a favor. Besides, why would liberals want facts ruining their "vast right-wing conspiracy" site? It's a place where liberals can go feel good and righteous and superior in their outraged victimhood."

You get the same sort of thing from dogmatic right-wing sites. Just demonstrates the truth of something from Albert Einstein: "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions that differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions."
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 2:42:41 PM

"For example, I'm banned from Marty's apparent favorite site, Crooks and Liars, apparently for trying to inject facts into a series of posts that consisted of nothing but insults, paranoia and BS."Don't worry, rjhenn,
They probably did you a favor. Besides, why would liberals want facts ruining their "vast right-wing conspiracy" site? It's a place where liberals can go feel good and righteous and superior in their outraged victimhood.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 1:46:09 PM

It's off topic and pointless.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 1:05:35 PM

Attention - someone call Marty - here is another one of his bad cops.
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>>>A California Highway Patrol (CHP) sergeant became one family's hero after the officer found $120,000 in the middle of the street and promptly returned the money to its original owner.<<<
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 12:51:22 PM

teacher_tim,

True, but that applies equally to both parties and most politicians and political commentators.

For example, I'm banned from Marty's apparent favorite site, Crooks and Liars, apparently for trying to inject facts into a series of posts that consisted of nothing but insults, paranoia and BS.

Which only proved that their moderators don't follow their own posted standards, making them hypocrites.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 12:26:51 PM

To be more accurate, Obama should have said,
“We don’t just react based on our fears, unless we're afraid we'll lose an election. We don't react based on facts and judgment and making smart decisions. We react on the best course of action to implement our own agenda, regardless of the consequences.”
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 12:15:55 PM

Lets see now - the lib mantra will be once more - "Its just stuff - he shouldnt have shot him"
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.>>> A 36-year-old man was shot and killed Tuesday night while he was attempting to rob an elderly couple outside a Northwest Dallas grocery store, police say.

The man, who has not been publicly identified, approached a man and a woman as they walked out of a grocery store and snatched a gold necklace from the woman’s neck, police said. The incident occurred around 7:15 p.m. at the Aldi in the 3000 block of Forest Lane near Webb Chapel Road.

The man knocked the woman to the ground and tried to rob her. The woman’s husband, 71-year-old Ronnie Lummus, pulled out a handgun and fired several shots at the man as he was attempting to flee in his car. The man got in his car but died before fleeing, police said.

Detectives interviewed Lummus, his wife and witnesses. Lummus has a valid concealed handgun license. He told officers that he was afraid the man would harm him or his wife during the robbery, police said.<<<

Couldn't this be classed as a type of that new stuff - you know - retroactive birth control? Oh Oh I got it wrong - its now called post birth abortion.....

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 10/30/2014 12:16:27 PM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2014 11:51:36 AM

Let's see, BO says about a mandatory quarantine: “We don’t just react based on our fears. We react based on facts and judgment and making smart decisions.”

Yet his proposed gun control measures are based on fear, not "facts and judgment and making smart decisions". And certainly not science.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 29, 2014 1:38:17 AM

Cirdan - "Prison. (Inside the wire)"

Yet the homicide rate in US prisons is almost as high as the general homicide rate.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Oct 29, 2014 12:59:48 AM

"Are there any "'zones' where there are zero guns allowed"? Places where neither the cops nor anyone else can carry?"

Prison. (Inside the wire)
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 29, 2014 12:58:24 AM

oilpan4 - "Mother jones says that a mass shooting is where some one kills at least 4 people. Is that source not liberal enough for you?"

MoJo also says that gun-free zones have nothing to do with mass shootings.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 8:45:57 PM

flyboyUT said: "IF Marty would get some experience in this area I believe his attitude just might undergo a change."

I doubt that Marty's attitude would change unless something happened to him and/or his family. And even then he'd likely want to twist the truth around to fit his agenda. There's just no educating some people.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 7:26:01 PM

"As for oilpan4's "Only 1 or 2 mass shootings in the last 50 years has not happened in a 'gun free zone'", that would depend on both your definition of "mass shooting" and your definition of "gun free zone"."

A gun free zone is a place that has a sign that says "no guns allowed" or other wise I cant take my gun.
Mother jones says that a mass shooting is where some one kills at least 4 people. Is that source not liberal enough for you?

Let me guess, you searched and haven't found tons of mass shootings that didn't happen in obvious gun free zones so you resort to splitting hairs over the definition of a "mass shooting" and what a "gun free zone" is?

How about you stop squabbling over what the meaning of "is" is and show me how a location being a gun free zone has nothing to do with a mass shooting that happened there.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 5:11:34 PM

Weaslespit - "That depends on how one defines a 'gun free zone'. 'Zones' that are protected by people with guns, but yet do not allow others to carry, or 'zones' where there are zero guns allowed."

Are there any "'zones' where there are zero guns allowed"? Places where neither the cops nor anyone else can carry?

If not, your distinction is one without meaning.

As for oilpan4's "Only 1 or 2 mass shootings in the last 50 years has not happened in a 'gun free zone'", that would depend on both your definition of "mass shooting" and your definition of "gun free zone".

"Why do people try to attach a debate tactic with political ideology? There is little correlation; people from both sides use the same tactics."

As often demonstrated.

[Edited by: rjhenn at 10/28/2014 5:12:09 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 12:27:45 PM

"This is a typical liberal move.
Trying to relate a negative or sad isolated anecdote to that which you dont agree with when you don't have any real numbers to back up your position."

Why do people try to attach a debate tactic with political ideology? There is little correlation; people from both sides use the same tactics.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 12:26:31 PM

"Only 1 or 2 mass shootings in the last 50 years has not happened in a "gun free zone"."

That depends on how one defines a 'gun free zone'. 'Zones' that are protected by people with guns, but yet do not allow others to carry, or 'zones' where there are zero guns allowed.

Seeing as how people want schools to be protected by armed guard, or to have teachers armed, this would still make it a 'gun free zone' in that anybody would not be allowed with carrying a gun using afore mentioned definition. Given that definition, there have been 2 recent shootings in zones protected by armed personal (Ft. Hood and the Navy facility).

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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 11:49:40 AM

"This article is worth dismissing"

This is a typical liberal move.
Trying to relate a negative or sad isolated anecdote to that which you dont agree with when you don't have any real numbers to back up your position.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 11:45:46 AM

"and most mass shootings appear to happen in declared "gun-free" zones?"

Most!?
You are being pretty generous there.
Only 1 or 2 mass shootings in the last 50 years has not happened in a "gun free zone".
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2014 11:39:56 AM

Kind of interesting - I wonder what Marty will say about it....
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>>>A Challenge To Hypocrite Anti-gun Celebs & Politicians From A Cop
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In that regard, this is an open challenge to any anti-gun celebrity or politician out there, especially to those of you who are so outspoken on the issue.

Come ride with me on patrol for one week. No camera crews, no security teams, no media, no Twitter feeds, no snap-chats, no nothing. Just you and me, in a squad car, handling real patrol calls for service. Come out and see what real Americans deal with on a daily basis. Come see how ridiculously long some people have to wait to get help from the cops. Come see what the average person’s inability to protect them self from an attacker results in. Come see the victims, who if they had been armed, might have avoided the pain, injury, loss, hospital visits, or worse, the morgue.

I challenge you to come personally see why it is that 85% of cops nationwide, the very people who deal with “gun violence” daily do NOT support stricter gun control, why more than 90% of us feel that the presence of armed citizens at an active shooter event would significantly decrease the number of victims, and why the vast majority of us believe the “violence” problem we are facing in America today is due to the decline in parenting and lack of family values, and has nothing to do with a “gun culture” (source for those statistics: PoliceOne.com survey).

Other than four days out of your life, and the very real possibility that you might have your eyes opened and your opinion changed, what have you got to lose?<<<

IF Marty would get some experience in this area I believe his attitude just might undergo a change.
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 10:06:53 PM

MiddletownMarty link: "Florida Man Claims Self-defense After Shooting Pregnant Wife In The Back Of The Head"

This story says nothing about the origin of the gun, even assuming this guy murdered his wife as opposed to his self-defense claim.

MTM: "You're assuming I give a fig about your opinion of the story. If you don't like the linked article, move on."

Fine. This article is worth dismissing, just as you dismiss any arguments against your position.

(In that respect, Marty and RJ resemble each other, even if they are on different sides here).

GTH
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 10:06:23 PM

GTH: "Unfortunately. neither eliminating legal handguns in private hands nor "strict, snarling gun control" will affect the criminals who will keep the illegal guns they already have."

weaselspit: "True, but we are seeing an increase in the number of shootings committed by non-criminals (mentally ill). I don't know what the right answer is, but I do know that adding guns will only increase the odds of a tragic accident, not decrease them."

If you mean shootings by someone mentally unstable, I don't know for certain what the right answer is either. But given where we are now, adding guns is at least as likely to head off tragic accidents as cause them.

The only real answer to a bad guy (or an unstable guy) with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.

GTH
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 9:10:11 PM

You're assuming I give a fig about your opinion of the story. If you don't like the linked article, move on.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 8:36:19 PM

Oh RJ he has a point to it. He is still trying to blame the gun and say - 'see if only no one had guns none of this would ever happen'.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 6:47:08 PM

MiddletownMarty - "Same story, different source."

And, once again, a link without any point to it.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 6:19:37 PM

Weaslespit - "Not in the context when comparing a gang shooting as has killed a number of kids in Detroit this year..."

Yet, though much more common and killing quite a few more people, those don't get the attention that school shootings get.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 5:05:17 PM

Same story, different source.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 4:13:56 PM

Maybe Marty should change the name of his favorite source just a tad - to Crooked Liars.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 3:51:54 PM

Florida Man Claims Self-defense After Shooting Pregnant Wife In The Back Of The Head


A Florida man was placed under arrest over the weekend after he admitted fatally shooting his wife during a domestic dispute.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 2:04:28 PM

"Murder is "no criminal intent"?"

Not in the context when comparing a gang shooting as has killed a number of kids in Detroit this year...
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 2:02:09 PM

Weaslespit - "No criminal intent is what I was thinking..."

Murder is "no criminal intent"?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 1:40:40 PM

"How are these shootings "tragic accident"s?"

No criminal intent is what I was thinking...
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 1:30:34 PM

Weaslespit - "True, but we are seeing an increase in the number of shootings committed by non-criminals (mentally ill).

I don't know what the right answer is, but I do know that adding guns will only increase the odds of a tragic accident, not decrease them."

How are these shootings "tragic accident"s?
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2014 10:00:58 AM

"how many school shootings do we need?"

How many crimes do we need?

Duh. I think the answer to both questions is the same.

ZERO.
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