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Author Topic: The NRA's idea does not work. Back to Topics
Michiganian

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Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 4:11:46 PM

Just ask the survivors at Columbine HS, Fort Hood and Virginia Tech.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 5:08:00 PM

Lets see here Marty - all we know is a two year old is shot in his home. Yet from this mountain of information you are speculating that the gun is somehow at fault again. OhhhhhhhKaaaaaay that makes sense to only you.

Once more ----- guns do not fire by themselves. Once more - ----- responsible owners do not have incidents of guns that fire by "accident". Nor do they allow unqualified people regardless of age to handle them.

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 5:00:59 PM

Responsible Gun Owner's 2-Year-Old Shoots Himself In Head In Another Tragic Accident


A two-year-old is in critical condition after police say he accidentally shot himself in the head inside a home in Delaware Tuesday morning.

The shooting happened at about 10 a.m. in a home on Cliffside Court at the Valley Run Apartments in Claymont, Delaware.

According to investigators, officers with the New Castle County Police Department were called to the home for the report of a two-year-old who shot himself in the head.

Paramedics performed CPR at the scene and the child was eventually flown to Alfred I. duPont Hospital for Children in critical condition.

New Castle County Police Department officials said the child was at the home with his mother when the shooting occurred.



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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 2:43:22 PM

MiddletownMarty - "Responsible Gun Shopper Accidentally Shoots Another Man In North Carolina Gun Store"

What I'm wondering is where the gun, and the ammo, came from. Were either, or both, from the store? Or were both brought in by an irresponsible customer, who was playing with the weapon (probably showing it off to a buddy) in an unsafe fashion?
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 8:05:37 AM

A gun saved the day in Oklahoma.
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 4:38:07 AM

.
< "Jeremy Snyder, 35, of Jacksonville, received a citation for discharging a firearm within city limits, according the Jacksonville Police Department." >

. Could there be any law that is more unconstitutional?
.
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 4:35:36 AM

.
< "The one thing lacking in the Muslim community is outrage, at those who kill in the name of Islam." >

. Yes, just like the Christian guards in Hitler's extermination camps expressed no outrage, only glee, at murdering 6 million people in the name of Christianity...
.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2014 2:07:42 AM

gas_too_high - "Not horrified enough. The one thing lacking in the Muslim community is outrage, at those who kill in the name of Islam."

They need to realize that those actions, and their lack of outrage, only promote the idea that Islam is a false religion.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2014 10:58:10 PM

"Guns don't fire by accident. Guns don't load themselves. That gun fired because the person holding it."

If you are afraid of guns they do.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2014 10:11:29 PM

GTH I dont think you will ever see that.
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2014 9:54:02 PM

rjhenn: "There are many Muslims who are horrified by those so-called "basic tenets of Islam"."

Not horrified enough. The one thing lacking in the Muslim community is outrage, at those who kill in the name of Islam.

GTH
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2014 5:57:34 PM

Marty why do you characterize this person as a responsible gun owner when he is clearly irresponsible?

Guns don't fire by accident. Guns don't load themselves. That gun fired because the person holding it did more than one really irresponsible stupid thing.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2014 5:37:37 PM

Responsible Gun Shopper Accidentally Shoots Another Man In North Carolina Gun Store


A man has been cited for accidentally shooting another man at a firearm shop in Jacksonville over the weekend, police said.

Jeremy Snyder, 35, of Jacksonville, received a citation for discharging a firearm within city limits, according the Jacksonville Police Department.

The accidental shooting happened at Guerrilla Armament at 300 Carmen Ave., police said. Officers responded at about 3:35 p.m. Sunday.

Investigators said Snyder and 28-year-old Douglas Clapp, of Jacksonville, were both handling a weapon when the gun was discharged.


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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Sep 29, 2014 8:14:53 AM

You are responsible for your own safety.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2014 6:31:38 PM

I haven't seen anything on why he was fired other than "'numerous reasons' involving 'personnel issues'".

"Just what does it take for you to admit that he did what he did because of his so called religion?"

Very few of these terrorists are doing the things they do because of their religion. Most of them are just nutballs, using their religion to justify the evil they do. Others use their religion to persuade others that they should give them money and power.

"You know RJ - if it walks like a duck, makes noises like a duck, makes messes like a duck and says its a duck - maybe - just maybe we should think its a duck."

Which would, what, make religion a mental illness?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2014 3:08:26 PM

RJ he was fired from his job because he was disruptive in trying to convert fellow workers to Islam. The last straw was when he started an argument involving the stoning of women who committed some infraction in Sharia law.

Just what does it take for you to admit that he did what he did because of his so called religion? What the heck we had a guy stand up and yell alahu akabar or what ever it is they yell to praise allah as he shot numerous fellow soldiers and the Obama administration still demanded that it be called 'workplace violence'.

You know RJ - if it walks like a duck, makes noises like a duck, makes messes like a duck and says its a duck - maybe - just maybe we should think its a duck.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2014 2:38:52 PM

jeskibuff - "His attempts to convert his coworkers, his associations with other radical Muslims and his Facebook postings all point to a killer inspired and motivated by the basic tenets of Islam."

There are many Muslims who are horrified by those so-called "basic tenets of Islam". Like many radical jihadists, the "troubled past", and basic mental instability, seems to have more to do with it than Islam.

Judging by their actions, instead of their rhetoric, most fundamentalist Islamic groups, such as IS and Boko Haram, seem to be about using religion as an excuse for murder, rape, theft and lying.

And gaining power for those at the top.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2014 2:33:38 PM

flyboyUT - "I just hope this doesnt get labeled "workplace violence" in my not so humble opinion it was inspired by islamic ideology and jihadist ideas and it should clearly be labeled Muslim terrorism."

Not so sure about that. The form of the violence might have been inspired by "jihadist ideas", but the trigger appears to have been his getting fired. Thus more "workplace violence" than jihad.

">>>Look at that. A shooting occurred at a Target. During a drug deal, no less.

Apparently, criminals don’t follow Target’s rules about bringing guns to the store.

They don’t follow gun control laws, either.<<<"

Technically, this wasn't "in" a Target store, but in the parking lot outside. Thus they weren't, as far as we know, carrying guns "in" a Target store.
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Sep 28, 2014 2:46:38 AM

.
. Startling info the gungrabbers won't like:

"Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city’s homicide rate was at a 56-year low." !!!

+ A Gun Law That Actually FIXED Things +
.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 8:17:46 PM

"trying to break in to a home of a former girlfriend,"

And we know how stories like that usually end if the would be victim does not have a gun.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 7:16:32 PM

rjhenn said: "Judging from what the article says about him, I doubt that Islam actually had much to do with his actions"

He had a troubled past for sure, but that just set him up nicely for the Islamic indoctrination. His attempts to convert his coworkers, his associations with other radical Muslims and his Facebook postings all point to a killer inspired and motivated by the basic tenets of Islam.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 5:15:05 PM

Oooooops ------ This past summer, Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America demanded that Target ask customers not to carry guns in its stores. The retail chain complied.
.
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>>>Look at that. A shooting occurred at a Target. During a drug deal, no less.

Apparently, criminals don’t follow Target’s rules about bringing guns to the store.

They don’t follow gun control laws, either.<<<

When oh when will we get enough anit gun laws passed to stop the criminals from acting like well, well, well, criminals.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 1:00:39 PM

Just one more in a whole long list of the NRA being right AGAIN.
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>>> A man was shot in the chest early Friday morning after trying to break in to a home of a former girlfriend, according to police.

Lt. Eric Lloyd with Las Vegas Metro police said the shooting happened near the area of South Durango Drive and Tropicana Avenue at about 1 a.m.

Citing the woman living at an apartment complex, Lloyd said she called officers regarding a former boyfriend kicking on her door.

Police said the woman fired two shots at the man once he made entry into the unit, hitting him once in the chest.

Her personal story, posted online shortly after police left, is far more vivid:<<<

Once more it proves that there are times that its good to be armed and mentally competent to use it.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 12:34:55 PM

"A 12 hour high speed chase, really. What did they do call a time out while they let him refuel?"

LOL! Great post. Maybe he had an accomplice in a refueling tanker.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 12:11:19 PM

"Court records show that Nolen was convicted on drug-related charges and of assaulting an officer in 2011, NewsOk.com reports. In October 2010, he led state troopers on a 12-hour, high-speed chase after he was pulled over because of outstanding warrants."

I am not taking a shot at you over this, but the press really needs to start reading what they put out there. A 12 hour high speed chase, really. What did they do call a time out while they let him refuel?
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Tru2psu2
Champion Author Winston-Salem

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 8:03:28 AM

Idiots kill people..guns don't
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Sep 27, 2014 12:54:45 AM

I don't have the link, but the FBI just completed a study of multiple killings. In almost all cases, it was over BEFORE law enforcement arrived on the scene. Hence the saying, "when seconds count, the police are only minutes away."
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2014 10:41:03 PM

However it does seem that the NRA idea of it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy 'armed with anything' worked pretty good here. Its a shame one died and one was badly injured but it could have been worse I think if some gun totin good guy didnt shoot the so called jihadist.

I just hope this doesnt get labeled "workplace violence" in my not so humble opinion it was inspired by islamic ideology and jihadist ideas and it should clearly be labeled Muslim terrorism.

I just wish the good guy would have killed him outright and saved everyone the cost of a trial and so forth.

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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2014 5:41:03 PM

.
. So the beheader had religion addiction/psychosis, drug addiction, and likely alcohol addiction... not the least bit unusual for people to have multiple addictions... although they tend to really shorten a person's lifespan... and shorten their freedom...
.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2014 5:27:23 PM

Judging from what the article says about him, I doubt that Islam actually had much to do with his actions:

"Court records show that Nolen was convicted on drug-related charges and of assaulting an officer in 2011, NewsOk.com reports. In October 2010, he led state troopers on a 12-hour, high-speed chase after he was pulled over because of outstanding warrants."
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2014 4:31:20 PM

Well its obvious - we need more knife control laws.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2014 2:41:41 PM

I was not sure where to post this. I decided here (as opposed to the various Islam and ISIS discussions), because a man with a gun stopped the zealot with the knife.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2014 7:41:35 PM

Now for a more incendiary post...
.
.
>>>We’ve warned you time and again that Moms Demand Action supporters are unhinged, but we’ve refrained from calling them Nazis.

Now that Moms Demand leader Alison A. Martin has exposed her support of Reich Minister of Propaganda Joseph Gobbels, however, we might be looking at them with a more critical eye.

Martin has since deleted her Twitter account, but pro-gun groups aren’t like to let the zealot live down her acceptance of the “wisdom” of one of the most infamous of all Nazi true believers any time soon."

Note before anyone goes all upset - its not me using the so called forbidden word - its the article I linked to . Look at it and the graphic work.....
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2014 7:39:04 PM

Weasle - my trap gun was a M-97 Winchester that I had reworked and made it function flawlessly. I also added a vent rib on it for fun. Great shooting gun - kind of wish I still had it.

Marty I understand what your saying. But a shotgun or a handgun is just a tool. It can be used safely or it can be misused. The problem is the person who has it not the tool.

However we do have the freedom to own it if we choose. The thing that so often gets lost is with the freedoms we have comes the responsibility to use them wisely. Rights and responsibilities/freedoms and duties have to balance or society fails.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2014 11:40:54 AM

"I used to shoot it trap on a team in competition. The team was a just a bunch of guys like a American Legion team but we had a regular schedule and so on. Lots of fun for sure...."

I recently took my new 870 out for the first time to an 18 'hole' course - terrific experience.

I can see why those who shoot a lot of trap own the 1100 series, but those also have more mechanical parts to foul-up.

Now to get my scope mounted on my rifled barrel...
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2014 11:35:28 AM

"I went clay pigeon shooting with my friend, Paul. I couldn’t believe how many people knew him; they were calling his name out all day long"

LOL!!!
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2014 2:38:24 AM

" it's that after I considered the indiscriminate damage and death a shotgun could easily cause"

Then you know why we like semi auto shot guns over full auto.
Full auto is indiscriminate. Shot guns are much more discriminating. A round fired by a shot gun fires any where from 9 to 41 pellets of "buck shot" at one target.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2014 12:19:34 AM

I figured you'd be surprised. I owned the Mossberg, but fired a few handguns. The one I fired at the indoor police pistol range belonged to the PD.

It's not that I dislike them only now, it's that after I considered the indiscriminate damage and death a shotgun could easily cause, responsible owner notwithstanding, I decided it wasn't worth the risk to my family so I gave it away and never gave it a second thought. Can't remember what it cost ... $350 maybe, but that was many years ago, maybe 30 years.



[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 9/24/2014 12:22:33 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 11:19:06 PM

Marty I figured you were engaged in a little humor. Thats why I teased you back a little.....

Your right not everyone who tries the shooting sports enjoys them. When I was active in them I enjoyed them a lot but today the cost of reloading components would tend to spoil a lot of the fun for sure.

I am kind of surprised to hear you say you owned and fired a few guns - What caused you to so dislike them now?

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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 9:47:04 PM

It's a joke. I've never shot at clay pigeons, but I have used a shotgun (owned a Mossberg once, gave it away to a friend who enjoys hunting), and a revolver (took a class in gun safety at my local police station). I don't care for it as a sport.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 8:15:10 PM

This gun toting person committed a felony
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>>>Ferguson, 52, was at Harvey Elementary because he works as a mentor in an after-school program for disadvantaged students.

He said he frequently carries a pistol. He has a license but the license does not matter under the strict state law Ferguson helped pass.

Among much else, the 2013 law, deemed New York’s SAFE Act, made it a felony to carry a gun on school property, according to The Buffalo News.

While it had previously been illegal to carry a gun on school grounds, the new law bumped the crime from a misdemeanor to a felony in response to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

The community activist has claimed that he forgot he was carrying his gun in a felony gun-free zone he helped create.<<<.
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Well justice has been done - he got a joke sentence for his felony crime. Breaking a law he helped pass...
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>>>Back in February, a Buffalo, N.Y. community activist who pushed for a highly restrictive 2013 gun control law was arrested for — wait for it — carrying a gun illegally at a public elementary school.

The wheels of criminal justice have now slowly, slowly churned to completion. And wouldn’t you know it? The judge in the case has now found it in his heart to give the heat-packing activist, Dwayne Ferguson, a generously light sentence.

On Monday, Judge John L. Michalek sentenced Ferguson to 100 hours of community service and a conditional discharge, according to local CBS affiliate WIVB. Michalek also sternly ordered Ferguson to keep his nose clean.<<<

.
.
.

Sure go ahead and pass lots more laws to "control guns" then make a mockery of them when someone breaks the laws.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 6:03:36 PM

Good one Marty ---

But are you sure they wernt "pulling your leg".....

By the way how did you like the experience? I used to shoot it trap on a team in competition. The team was a just a bunch of guys like a American Legion team but we had a regular schedule and so on. Lots of fun for sure....
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 5:26:45 PM

I went clay pigeon shooting with my friend, Paul. I couldn’t believe how many people knew him; they were calling his name out all day long.
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 4:40:33 PM

.
. Religics love to kill innocent people, as many as possible, and will use whatever is available: knives, chairs, vehicles, gravity, chains, missiles, guns, axes, hatchets, clubs, bombs, tools, water, gases, etc...
.

[Edited by: BuzzLOL at 9/23/2014 4:41:42 PM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 4:31:49 PM

Weaslespit - "In the manner he did (rather than with a different weapon that has higher odds of defending against)."

Again, adult male against his daughter and multiple sub-teen children. And, unless the daughter was unusually rational, or much less than usually rational, she probably had inhibitions about defending herself against her father.

"That isn't what Australians believe..."

Which doesn't make it true. Particularly when the facts make it highly likely that the Australian experience is due to other factors, such as the removal of lead from gasoline that I've mentioned several times before.

"But police are armed with guns, not knives, because they are the most lethal..."

Yet they still fear knives.

"Don't forget speed - you can't kill somebody with a club from 20ft. away unless you get 'really' lucky (or unlucky, depending on the POV) - especially if the target is on the move."

I'd expect the same to be true of clubs, or, basically, any hand weapon, as with knives: if they're 20 feet or less away, you're probably going to get clobbered before you can draw, aim and fire.

"Sure it is, you can run from it - but your odds of getting away from a bullet are much lower - again the reason for guns being the weapon of choice by those professions which require the use of deadly force."

It's hard to run from fire if you're right in the middle of it and the exits are blocked. Or even if just the exits are blocked.

It would be more accurate to say "require the threat of deadly force", since, in many cases, the intent is to control behavior rather than to kill. Which is a concept some, like Marty, seems to have problems with.

"I can't disagree with that - there is a lot of fear mongering on the Liberal side of this particular issue. The worst possible terms are displayed to generate strong emotions against guns."

Exactly.

"You don't have to get more concentrated drugs or a 'bad batch' of drugs to OD..."

Which is why I said "a lot fewer" instead of "none".

"If illegal drugs were made legal and regulated, there would simply be more people addicted to drugs"

That seems to be the usual assumption, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence one way or the other.

"Can you define that at all?"

Not without a lot of research that I'm not really interested in at present.

"Given the higher odds of one event over the other - a different solution is needed for preventing the loss of the dozen."

Which seems to mean that you're scoring injury, or just being startled, equally with death.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 2:53:02 PM

That's why you buy your clay pidgins form a guy who lives in a van down by the river.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 1:50:22 PM

"I tell ya there outa be a law - anyone caught with unregistered clay pigeons needs to go to jail."

They were registered - Bass Pro has it on record of them being purchased ;)
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 1:41:57 PM

Weasle didnt you feed or water them or take them out for walks or anything like that. How cruel and heartless can you be? The next thing you know your gonna tell us that you alone or you with accomplices went out and shot them poor little cute pigeons. Just how unfeeling are you anyway??????

I tell ya there outa be a law - anyone caught with unregistered clay pigeons needs to go to jail.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 1:24:46 PM

"So, other than his actually getting into the WH, much ado about not much at all."

True. I had 100 clay pigeons in my trunk for a month... means nothing.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 1:22:33 PM

"So his having access to a gun "increased the odds" that he would kill his family in what way, exactly?"

In the manner he did (rather than with a different weapon that has higher odds of defending against).

"Bearing in mind that there's no evidence that any gun control law anywhere at any time has had any significant effect on total violent death rates."

That isn't what Australians believe...

"Most police are trained to not let anyone with a knife get closer than 21 feet before firing. That's because most people can stab you from 20 feet away before you can draw, aim and fire."

But police are armed with guns, not knives, because they are the most lethal...

"Whether or not you can defend yourself against a club depends a lot on relative size and strength."

Don't forget speed - you can't kill somebody with a club from 20ft. away unless you get 'really' lucky (or unlucky, depending on the POV) - especially if the target is on the move.

"And fire isn't any easier to 'defend' against than a gun."

Sure it is, you can run from it - but your odds of getting away from a bullet are much lower - again the reason for guns being the weapon of choice by those professions which require the use of deadly force.

"If you mean how much it improves your odds, I agree."

Then we agree ;)

"Just points out the level of ignorance there is on the subject."

I can't disagree with that - there is a lot of fear mongering on the Liberal side of this particular issue. The worst possible terms are displayed to generate strong emotions against guns.

"If cocaine and heroin were legal and regulated, there'd be a lot fewer overdose deaths and deaths from impurities."

You don't have to get more concentrated drugs or a 'bad batch' of drugs to OD... If illegal drugs were made legal and regulated, there would simply be more people addicted to drugs - and as far as I know there is nothing good that comes out of drug addiction. But that is for another topic.

"Basically, anytime up until we started getting paranoid about guns. That varies with region, since the East went paranoid a lot earlier than other parts of the country."

Can you define that at all?

"Sounds a bit like saying it's better to let a dozen people die, as long as we reduce the incidence of unintended discharges by keeping guns out of schools."

Given the higher odds of one event over the other - a different solution is needed for preventing the loss of the dozen.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2014 12:54:21 PM

Cirdan - "I stand corrected. Apparently he did have guns in the car. A sawed off shotgun and two pistols."

That was back in July. All reports I've seen so far on the present incident just mention the 800 rounds of ammo, two hatchets and a machete, besides the folding knife that was "in his possession" (which probably means in his pocket).

So, other than his actually getting into the WH, much ado about not much at all.
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