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Author Topic: The NRA's idea does not work. Back to Topics
Michiganian

Champion Author
Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 4:11:46 PM

Just ask the survivors at Columbine HS, Fort Hood and Virginia Tech.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 7:26:34 PM

This loony lib not only wants to make it more difficult for us to own a firearm for self protcetion but he goes one step further.
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>>>Apparently Congressman Mike Honda (D – CA) doesn’t believe in just taking gun rights away from Americans. He is also pushing a bill this session that will only allow certain people to possess Level III body armor. The ‘little people’ shouldn’t be allowed to purchase such items.

From IJReview:

Congressman Mike Honda (D-California) is a strong supporter of gun control. In fact, he filed three bills as an anti-crime package last week, two of which were bills to restrict gun ownership. The third bill is a ban on body armor by those who are not police officers and other first responders. Honda’s bill is H.R. 378 and is called the “The Responsible Body Armor Possession Act.” While there is no text available for the bill, it’s essentially rehashed from a bill that failed last year. It would ban Level III and better body armor for civilians. Level III body armor is capable of stopping rifle rounds.

In a press release sent out about the bill, Congressman Honda says this:

This bill allows law enforcement to respond to active shooting situations more effectively. The bill prohibits the purchase, sale, or possession of military-grade body armor by anyone except certain authorized users, such as first-responders and law enforcement.<<<

So now you arent even supposed to have protection of any kind against thugs who want to commit assaults and felonies against you. Just sit back and take it. Oh yeah ----- the brilliance of the liberal who is protected by armed guards who knows how to keep all of us safe......
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 1:01:37 AM

"Deputies said the shooting was accidental and that Reid was playing with a homemade gun when it went off, firing a 12 gauge round. Investigators said the “zip-gun” was made from PVC pipe. Reid was hit in the left cheek, left eyelid, and left hand with birdshot.

Reid is a documented Norteno gang member, and was caught with three grams of meth when he nearly smoked himself."

I've always been a big fan of Darwin.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 12:43:51 AM

"please take the "preview. off your tinyurl links. It's a minor irritation."

I have a logical security reason for using "preview" on ANY site when I post truncated links, and I enable previews on links posted by others when they haven't posted a preview link.
I am sorry you find the peace of mind isn't worth the extra couple of seconds to get to a page.
In my opinion, blindly clicking on redirect URLs is not the best practice. Even a trusted person's account could theoretically be hijacked, as happened in April, 2009 when an XSS attack was launched against Twitter.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 11:31:03 PM

Heck - the reason they saw multiple holes in those folks is the bad guys all thought that the pipsqueak 9mm with lots of bullets was a great thing. Then they also figured that shooting real fast (but inaccurately like in the movies) was spiffy too - so you get lots of wounds but fewer fatalities. Now if they had used a real handgun that shot a large caliber bullet and the fool perps would learn to actually aim before they shoot then there would have been fewer holes per patient. I was a proponent of what a guy named Jeff Cooper used to say - use an adequate gun and aim before you shoot.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 11:19:55 PM

rumbleseat - "The Army’s New Handgun: A Weapon for Criminals?"

Lots of paranoia and not much actual information. Doesn't say anything about what the Army's new requirements are, just gushes about how bad guns are.

And ignores the fact that homicide rates are at their lowest in over 50 years, despite more guns in circulation.

Oh, and please take the "preview." off your tinyurl links. It's a minor irritation.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 7:42:14 PM

DC should be a horrible place to study gun shot injury since its a gun free zone.
But stupid liberal anti gun policies cause our nations capitol to have a Mogadishu like murder rate and gun violence.
They (anti gun fools) believe that places like DC and Baltimore, MD are models as to how the gun and weapons laws should be across the US. Ensuring only cops and criminal be armed.
And that places like Maine, Vermont and Virginia have it all wrong, they are the top 3 safest states to live in and all 3 just happen to have very lax gun laws and tens of thousands of legal concealed carry permit holders. But no, we cant do that because violence will be high.

This is how you can tell anti gun people are stricken with a permanent, incurable case of stupidity.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 7:33:22 PM

" Daniel Webster of Johns Hopkins University noticed an alarming trend – as time went on, more and more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds. "

Doesn't "alarming" depend on whether the patient is a perpetrator or not?
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 6:41:44 PM

"Studying gunshot injuries in the D.C. area in the 1980s, Daniel Webster of Johns Hopkins University noticed an alarming trend – as time went on, more and more patients were arriving at the emergency room with multiple bullet wounds. In 1983, at the beginning of the study period, only about a quarter of gunshot patients had multiple injuries, but in the last two years of the study, that proportion had risen to 43 percent.
Over the same period, semiautomatic pistols with a capacity of 15-rounds (or more) were replacing six-shot revolvers as the most popular firearms in the country. It’s not difficult to see the correlation – more bullets in the guns, more bullets in the victims.
The Army’s New Handgun: A Weapon for Criminals?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 4:45:34 PM

Watch the video - was the cop right or not?
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Oilpan - I never said those two were the sharpest knives in the drawer. I seems that operating with extreme stupidity has its hazards.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 3:18:16 PM

"a “zip-gun” was made from PVC pipe"

A standard 12 gauge 2,3/4 low brass bird short round can generate 4,000 to 7,000 psi. A 3 inch mag shell, up to 15,000psi.
A standard PVC pipe, rated to 400psi.
There's your problem.
Some one wasn't following their tech data.

"Days knows that Reid has violently resisted arrest before, and now knows that Reid is a felon in possession of a gun. Reid had done 13 years in prison for shooting at a trio of state troopers."

One less to deal with, case closed, throw the body in a hole, call it a day.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 12:15:46 PM

Another case of a criminal dying by terminal stupidity.
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>>>Officer Roger Worley, Days partner and the driver of the police car, rapidly joins his partner, gun out and weaponlight on, focusing on the driver. Days tells his partner that there is a weapon in the glove compartment. Days reaches into the car, and pulls out a large, shiny pistol (1:10).

On the passenger side of the vehicle, felon Jerame Reid is not listening to officer Days, who is repeatedly warning Reid not to move and to show the officers his hands. Days warns Reid that he’s going to get shot if he doesn’t keep his hands up. Reid refuses to comply.

Days had a prior run-in with Reid, arresting him on drug charges last year, and calls him by name (1:35). Days knows that Reid has violently resisted arrest before, and now knows that Reid is a felon in possession of a gun. Reid had done 13 years in prison for shooting at a trio of state troopers.

Officers Days warns Reid repeatedly not to move, and then appears to be attempt to hold the door shut (1:44).

Days takes a huge step back as the door is pushed open by Reid, and Days continues to yell at Reid not to move (1:46). Reid rapidly exits the vehicle and rapidly raises his hands (1:47).

Officer Days—apparently thinking that the non-compliant Reid is raising a weapon—opens fires with a volley of what appears to be six shots fired from a distance of less than five feet away. On the driver’s side of the car, Officer Worley appears to have fired a single shot, then ducks out of the way as he realizes that the shifting positions of the three moving men have placed him in the line of fire from Day’s gun. Reid collapses to the ground, and no more shots are fired (1:50).<<<<
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.Lets see one guy did what the cop said and lived. Another guy who was a known felon and was known to be violent refused and made aggressive movements towards a cop who had a drawn gun. The felon died as a result of his stupidity. Good job Officer Day!

No the anti cop whiners are gonna start squealing like stuck hogs but the simple fact is if the room temperature felon would not have moved towards the cop in an aggressive manner after being repeatedly warned he would still be alive - in the grey bar hotel again - but still alive.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 11:57:24 AM

Lets see - using meth and making zip guns - what coupld possibly go wrong?
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>>>It seems likely that Jack Reid intended to use this crude throw-away device to murder someone, so pardon me if I don’t feel any sympathies for his self-inflicted injuries:

Deputies responded to a report of an attempted suicide on the 18000 block of Majestic View Drive in Happy Valley just after 4:30 Wednesday afternoon. When they arrived they found Jack Reid, 23, with injuries to his face and hand.

Deputies said the shooting was accidental and that Reid was playing with a homemade gun when it went off, firing a 12 gauge round. Investigators said the “zip-gun” was made from PVC pipe. Reid was hit in the left cheek, left eyelid, and left hand with birdshot.

Reid is a documented Norteno gang member, and was caught with three grams of meth when he nearly smoked himself.

In the comments of the article one of his family’s friends say that we should feel really bad that Jack nearly managed to win the Room Temperature Challenge, because his mom is really upset of what happened.<<<

His mom is upset - why - her precious kid is responding to his upbringing. She did a 'job' on teaching him to be a fine upstanding citizen.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 10:26:56 AM

"heavily gun controlled New Orleans, with 53.2 murders per hundred thousand"

Why don't you look up the other poster child for uber strict gun control, Washington, DC.
I looked it up a few years ago and if I remember correctly they had a murder rate of something like 55 per 100,000.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 1:02:32 AM

"The per capita murder rate in Gun Nut Central is 0.4 per 100,000: if the United States of America, as a nation, had the same murder rate as Plano Texas, we would not but 111 out of 218; we’d be 211 out of 218"

The liberals like to use murder rates as the alpha and omega of how safe a country is.
Funny thing is, its these liberal gun free zone cease pools that drive the murder rates up for the rest of the country.
And even worse than that, these invalids think some where like Baltimore MD with its strict gun control and utopian 34.9 per 100,000 murder rate is the model for how the rest of the country should be.

As my cop friend likes to say: "how can anyone be so GD stupid".
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2015 12:48:54 AM

"Its not the fact that folks have guns that is a problem - its that criminals illegally use guns to harm people."

That's my problem with gun control advocates. Criminals don't care what the law says. Gun control legislation just makes "criminals" out of otherwise law-abiding citizens without doing anything to stop real criminals.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2015 10:03:09 PM

But the pint he was trying to make RJ is the same one that others here have tried - "Maybe it’s not the guns. Maybe it’s the people holding the guns."

Where I live there are very many homes with firearms. People would bae astounded by the actual numbers. We also have a large number of folks with a ccw permit adn many more who dont have a chunk of paper that says they can but they carry anyway. Yet the amount of crime with guns here is very very low. Almost all the time if a gun is used in one of our rare crimes it is in the hands of someone from out of town.

Its not the fact that folks have guns that is a problem - its that criminals illegally use guns to harm people. In fact I cant think of a single neighbor I have who does not have guns in the home. I think I am the only one in the neighborhood who doesnt have any. Yet I feel perfectly safe here.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2015 8:46:36 PM

>>>>johnnyg1200 - "I'm sure that is what this officer though when he went to work on this morning.
He was wrong."

Not sure what your point is. Weasle said "far more likely". <<<

I missread the post and missunderstood the intent. Sorry about that.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2015 8:06:27 PM

flyboyUT - "America’s overall average of 4.7 is as low as it is because of places like Plano, Texas – the last city on the list – with a murder rate of 0.4. Having been to Plano Texas several times, I can tell you with confidence that virtually every home in Plano Texas has an entire arsenal of Ar-15 assault rifles, semi-automatic shotguns, 30.06 hunting rifles, .45’s, .357s, 38s, 9mms, an assortment .22s for the kids to practice with, not to mention every species of bowie knife, hunting knife, jack knife, bayonet, switchblade pointy rocks and sharp sticks."

Funny, I used to live and work in Plano. It seemed to me to be more like Yuppie Central. Now, as you moved out towards Frisco and McKinney, there were probably a lot more gun owners. But Plano?

I don't have much confidence in this guy's confidence.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2015 7:22:33 PM

Soylent Green - you are absolutely 100% right - it matters a whole lot more where you place the bullet than what bullet it is. When I was hunting big game I always used a very very accurate rifle. The accuracy and my ability to hit where I wanted was more important than caliber.

But being the curmudgeon I am I still prefer to accurately place large heavy bullets where I want. I still prefer the 45ACP with hot HP loads.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2015 7:18:53 PM

Message to those who dislike guns - please take 6 and a half minutes and watch this and then come back and lets discuss some of the salient points.
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Here is a sampling of what it says ---
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>>> America’s 111th place, 4.7 murder per 100,000 people also includes, in order, Democratically governed, heavily gun controlled New Orleans, with 53.2 murders per hundred thousand; St. Louis, with 35.5; Baltimore with 34.9; Newark, 34.4; Oakland, 31.8; followed by Stockton 23.7; Kansas City 22.6, Philadelphia 21.5, Cleveland 21.3, Memphis 20.2, Atlanta 19.0 and Chicago, with 18.5 murders per 100,000 per year.

America’s per capita average of 4.7 murders includes all of these high-crime areas. The first city to appear in Gun-Mad Texas is Dallas, which isn’t in the top twenty. America’s overall average of 4.7 is as low as it is because of places like Plano, Texas – the last city on the list – with a murder rate of 0.4. Having been to Plano Texas several times, I can tell you with confidence that virtually every home in Plano Texas has an entire arsenal of Ar-15 assault rifles, semi-automatic shotguns, 30.06 hunting rifles, .45’s, .357s, 38s, 9mms, an assortment .22s for the kids to practice with, not to mention every species of bowie knife, hunting knife, jack knife, bayonet, switchblade pointy rocks and sharp sticks.

The per capita murder rate in Gun Nut Central is 0.4 per 100,000: if the United States of America, as a nation, had the same murder rate as Plano Texas, we would not but 111 out of 218; we’d be 211 out of 218 – well below Switzerland at 0.6, HALF of Germany, Spain and Denmark at 0.8, and well, well below half of New Zealand, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, France and Australia. If all of America had the murder rate of the gun-nut capital of Gun Culture USA – Plano, Texas – then America’s per capita murder rate would be ONE QUARTER of those murderous, violent, rampaging, death-worshipping Belgians with their horrific 1.6 murders per hundred thousand.

Maybe it’s not the guns. Maybe it’s the people holding the guns.<<<

Maybe - just maybe it has more to do with people - what a novel idea.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2015 1:21:53 PM

Missouri 9-month-old fatally shot in his crib by 5-year-old brother, police say

Can't believe this previously responsible gun owner (who taught his own children well, according to the grieving mother) would be so irresponsible.

You can't just tell a 5-year old 'don't go in there' (into Grandpa's bedroom where the guns are kept in an unsecured cabinet)...

It only takes one mistake.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2015 1:17:51 PM

"Not sure what your point is. Weasle said "far more likely"."

Glad I wasn't the only one confused...
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2015 12:28:45 PM

johnnyg1200 - "I'm sure that is what this officer though when he went to work on this morning.
He was wrong."

Not sure what your point is. Weasle said "far more likely".
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2015 8:46:16 AM

"What I am saying is I've seen the real-life data on # shots to stop, first shot stops, etc., and in the real world, 9, .40, .357, and .45 are all roughly the same. Put me in the placement over power camp."

There's no question, a larger slug does more damage. But, on the lines of what cirdan is saying, the differences between some of the handgun calibers might not be instantaneously notable. From what I've read, a person or animal taking a direct heart shot can function for as long as three seconds before dropping.

Given the circumstances where you would need to use a handgun, neither the 9 or 45 is large enough. I worked as a sales representative for a drug company for several years. I saw gunshot patients walk into Cook County Hospital under their own power with torso wounds. It's not like the movies.

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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Jan 21, 2015 1:27:30 AM

"Cirdan - I find it interesting to see you say that you need to use hot HP loads in your 9 to come close to the performance of the old 45ACP ball load. What happens when you do go 'modern' and use a hot HP load in the 45ACP?"

I'm not denying the .45 is powerful. I normally shoot at one of those "self-healing" balls. With the 9 I can hit it 20 - 30 times before chasing it down. Withe the .45 it flies all over the place and I'm always shagging after it to get back in range. (Note: I stopped shooting it with my AR because it tore it up very quickly. With a piddly little 65 grain .223 round)

What I am saying is I've seen the real-life data on # shots to stop, first shot stops, etc., and in the real world, 9, .40, .357, and .45 are all roughly the same. Put me in the placement over power camp.

[Edited by: Cirdan at 1/21/2015 1:28:54 AM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 9:05:12 PM

>>"Gee cops being armed to deal with armed terrorists - what a novel idea."

I don't think many traffic cops are sufficiently armed to deal with armed terrorists globally - outside of areas under constant attack. That being said, traffic cops should be armed (as all officers should be) as a measure of self defense against 'any' armed assailant - which is a far more likely encounter than squaring off against terrorists.<<

I'm sure that is what this officer though when he went to work on this morning.
He was wrong.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 8:05:03 PM

Weasle - even having one of them 9mm popguns favored by the Europeans is orders of magnitudes better then just having one of them whistles to toot at the guys.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 12:39:52 PM

"Gee cops being armed to deal with armed terrorists - what a novel idea."

I don't think many traffic cops are sufficiently armed to deal with armed terrorists globally - outside of areas under constant attack. That being said, traffic cops should be armed (as all officers should be) as a measure of self defense against 'any' armed assailant - which is a far more likely encounter than squaring off against terrorists.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 12:27:32 PM

"So lets see if this is correct. These people want to recommend a series of laws that will in reality have zero effect on the safety of anyone."

I have to agree with you, the laws seem like they would have had zero affect regarding the Sandy Hook tragedy.

"At the same time they say they dont care if the laws they ardently desire are legal according to the constitution or not."

I don't read it that way. They simply do not have the authority to decide if the laws are constitutional or not is all...
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 11:57:40 AM

It might take some time but even the effete get smart sooner or later
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>>>When witnesses in the same building as Charlie Hebdo saw masked men with heavy weaponry enter the building they called police, like anyone in their position would do. But the three unarmed officers on bikes who showed up proved to be most unhelpful in the situation.

According to the witness, the officers had to retreat after seeing the men were heavily armed.

That wasn’t the only instance during the three-day terror spree where police found themselves utterly unprepared to take on the jihadists.

The 27-year-old policewoman who was gunned down just south of Paris while attending a traffic accident was unarmed, as was her partner, who could do nothing to stop the gunman.

Now, after three police officers were killed during the attacks in France, a plot to murder police officers in Belgium was foiled, and a posthumous video of Amedy Coulibaly, one of the French jihadists, admitting his plan was to attack police all along, European law enforcement agencies are beginning to think differently about how and which police should be armed. <<<

Gee cops being armed to deal with armed terrorists - what a novel idea.
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SE I still have the strange idea that when people propose laws that they know will not solve a problem then maintain that they dont care if the laws they are proposing are legal or not --- no one should pay a whole lot of attention to them. But I do understand if your on the left coast then they are "hero's".
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 11:36:20 AM

"Someone tell me why we waste time with the tripe people like this spew out."

Waste of time? Sixteen of Gov. Dannel Malloy's close political allies get rewarded for their support. Appointments to boards and commissions are how many/most governors reward their allies.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 11:28:22 AM

Courious - they are making recommendations for laws but do not care if the laws are constitutional or not????
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>>>Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy’s Sandy Hook Advisory Commission want to institute onerous new gun laws and it has said it doesn’t care if the laws are unconstitutional.

The 16 commission members — experts in education, mental health, police work and so on — are specifically insisting that Connecticut ban the sale of any gun able to fire more than 10 rounds at a time without reloading, ABC News reports.

Second Amendment advocates and gun manufacturers oppose the proposed ban, which would be in addition to a 2013 Connecticut law that outlaws guns defined as “assault weapons” and ammunition magazines defined as “large capacity.”

Commission members admit that they have no regard for the constitutionality of a ban on multiple rounds (more than 10).

“Whether or not this law would stand the test of constitutionality is not for this commission to decide,” commission member Bernard Sullivan, a former Hartford police chief, said.

“The commission has expressed very strongly that this is a statement that is needed regarding the lethality of weapons,” he added, according to ABC.<<<

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So lets see if this is correct. These people want to recommend a series of laws that will in reality have zero effect on the safety of anyone. At the same time they say they dont care if the laws they ardently desire are legal according to the constitution or not. Someone tell me why we waste time with the tripe people like this spew out.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 20, 2015 9:38:32 AM

"I would wash my M16A2 in Afghanistan with a pressure washer and dry it with compressed air."

'Nuff said...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 11:08:09 PM

>>"Somehow washing a good gun in soap and water gave me the willies."

I would wash my M16A2 in Afghanistan with a pressure washer and dry it with compressed air.<<

LOL I bet your arms room NCO loved you.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 10:44:42 PM

"But if you make that much"

I am retired. Since I have been offered $300/hr, that is what my time is worth.

At any rate 9MM ammo costs half what .45 costs, so I can make twice as many holes for the same $$$.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 10:33:57 PM

"Somehow washing a good gun in soap and water gave me the willies."

I would wash my M16A2 in Afghanistan with a pressure washer and dry it with compressed air.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 6:16:48 PM

I used to reload in the evenings. Are you saying that you dont have any time at all to enjoy your hobbies?

But if you make that much ---- hey spend a little more and shoot a real gun.. snicker snort tease ---

OK kidding aside - I just never liked shooting the 9 and really did enjoy the 45.

I think it was more fun shooting the Ruger New Army cap and ball but it was not so much fun to clean it. Somehow washing a good gun in soap and water gave me the willies.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 5:56:00 PM

"SE - do what I used to do - reload. I saved a ton of money doing that."

I am retired, but my time is worth $300/hr as an arbiter. Considering my time and the cost of reloading, how much would I save over 20 cents a round for 9mm?
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 3:20:07 PM

I too prefer #4 buck but its hard to find.
Most of the time all I find at the store is 00 buck which has no problem punching straight through a deer 99% of the time.
I figure if the pellets punch straight through then you might as well pack the shell with more numerous slightly less massive pellets and put more holes in the target.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 12:51:25 PM

My first choice is #4 Buck. However, .38 special, 9mm, .45, .357 are all better than nothing. I use all, depending on what I'm wearing and where I'm going.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 12:11:32 PM

SE - do what I used to do - reload. I saved a ton of money doing that.

Cirdan - I find it interesting to see you say that you need to use hot HP loads in your 9 to come close to the performance of the old 45ACP ball load. What happens when you do go 'modern' and use a hot HP load in the 45ACP?

I will continue to support eh old 45 because of my experience with it. Utter dependability and quite accurate. If I were ever to have a handgun for personal defense or concealed carry I would want one that will stop the problem in the fewest shots - like the 45 will do with good ammo.

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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Jan 19, 2015 8:48:41 AM

The reason the .45 cal 1911 was designed & made by Browning.
.38 caliber double-action revolvers used at the time did not have the stopping power against the Moros

History of the model 1911

Anything other then .45 cal in a 1911 is not a real 1911.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2015 1:20:17 PM

Springfield Armory offers the "Classic 1911" in 9 mm, .40 and .45. Pick your ammo. I prefer 9mm because I can pack more rounds in the magazine, AND it is the cheapest round to buy (other than .22), so I can practice more with it.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2015 12:55:27 PM

Didn't mean to start a 1911 rant. But for the record, the "modern" guns have a few advantages:

- Lighter
- More rounds
- More reliable (I know this will cause all the fanboys to erupt, but it seems like the first thing people do with a 1911 is to take it to a gunsmith for mods. . .)

Real world data suggests actual performance of 9 mm, .357, .40 and .45 are about the same with the right ammo (e.g. 9mm JHP, +P). If you're stuck using ball ammunition (like military) the bigger round is better.

Nothing wrong with the 1911, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved on. By the way, I own a 1911. It's very nice, but I would never carry it.

Yes, a lot of Special Ops guys carry a 1911 (restricted to ball?). But stop and think about their usage. Hardly ever. They use an M4 or something similar for almost everything. The guys running through bin Laden's house, up 2 flights of narrow stairs, and around corners shot him with M4s.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 9:52:25 PM

>>hooah to Papa Johns as I agree with them and not thugs like this<<

This is a change from past actions of self-defense. In the past pizza drivers who defended themselves were fired. Pizza Hut did it and so did Dominos. I guess after the rash of drivers being killed attitudes have change.

It beats the hell out of these results.

Killer of Imo's pizza delivery driver sentenced to 25 years in prison

2 of 3 suspects in killing of Imo's pizza driver get 13 years in prison



[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 1/16/2015 9:57:51 PM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 7:55:57 PM

"The 1911 is a classic design."

Agree and agree with the other comments. I've got to throw in the Browning Hi-Power as well. It's fundamental mechanism is the foundation for Glocks, S$W semi autos, and possibly a few others. In another 10 years or so will be 100 years old, like the 1911.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 4:09:50 PM

The 870 is a great pump. However I used to own a M97 and learned to like it a lot. I used mine for waterfowl hunting and trap shooting and it never seemed to have any problems. I remember a lot of my friends who owned newer, fancier, shotguns did have problems with them every once in awhile.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 2:20:07 PM

"The 1911 is a classic design."

That is why many foreign and domestic manufacturers still make it today in a variety of calibers.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 2:16:21 PM

"When we discuss other "classic" guns I also prefer a bolt action rifle and a M97 pump shotgun. For the simple reason - they work ---- all the time."

Most would now probably consider the 870 pump action shotgun a classic, for similar reasons...

That's why I got one. ;)
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 1:03:04 PM

"The 1911 is a classic design. It's also very old. Modern guns are more reliable, hold more rounds, and are safer."

Give some serious thought to this concept - the reason it is a "classic" is that it functions well enough to be kept in continuous production since about 1911. The 45 ACP round is adequate to do the job and the limited capacity of the magazine is not a concern. I dont have a whole lot of expericnce with the newer handguns as I got out of the shooting sports over 30 years ago. But when I was shooting I used to shoot literally thousands and thousands of rounds of 45 ACP each year and I do not ever remember a malfunction except once when a part broke. However I clearly remember many of the newer 9mm wonder guns jamming during use.

Just as the 1911 is a classic you might ask yourself why the military wants it back and why a group as demanding on a good firearm as the Special Forces type people choose to use a 45 ACP 1911 type handgun.

When we discuss other "classic" guns I also prefer a bolt action rifle and a M97 pump shotgun. For the simple reason - they work ---- all the time.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2015 9:31:28 AM

hooah to Papa Johns as I agree with them and not thugs like this
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