Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    2:37 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: US politics > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: The NRA's idea does not work. Back to Topics
Michiganian

Champion Author
Michigan

Posts:6,171
Points:1,156,205
Joined:Jun 2004
Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 4:11:46 PM

Just ask the survivors at Columbine HS, Fort Hood and Virginia Tech.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 2:57:59 AM

Cliffisher - "So far as I can tell, Obama has no interest whatsoever in my guns. Problem is ... no one else seems to want 'em, either"

Must be why they're so expensive.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Sep 1, 2014 2:55:53 AM

BuzzLOL - ". The NRA peeped:

"7 Ways Children Can Have Fun at the Shooting Range" "

. Then they pulled it about an hour later..."

Sorry, Buzz, but the Daily Kos seems to have pulled the story.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:27,421
Points:1,430,160
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 7:56:34 PM

So Cliff - is that going to be your new name then?
Profile Pic
Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

Posts:29,821
Points:3,632,675
Joined:Sep 2003
Message Posted: Aug 31, 2014 5:02:49 PM

From The Motley Fool:

So it's with some pleasure that I report today: Another quarter has passed, and the jackbooted stormtroopers of an alleged nanny state have yet to appear on my doorstep, demanding entry and forfeiture of my firearms. So far as I can tell, Obama has no interest whatsoever in my guns. Problem is ... no one else seems to want 'em, either
Profile Pic
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

Posts:22,702
Points:3,675,540
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 4:08:35 PM

Woman scares off attackers with gun.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:27,421
Points:1,430,160
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 3:33:17 PM

The reason there wasnt a "peep" out of teh NRA is that it had nothing to do with them really. But marty you keep wanting it to so enjoy your dreams. But I do think it was you who said - "I wouldn't be so silly as to venture a guess about the extent of an imaginary problem, not having anything on which to base it."

Walk your own talk there my friend.... snicker....
Profile Pic
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

Posts:21,424
Points:316,190
Joined:Jul 2008
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 3:28:26 PM

"And not a "PEEP" out of the NRA this week."

Obviously there weren't enough good guys with guns around.

Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,437
Points:328,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 12:18:09 PM

A full auto 9mm is not a powerful weapon. A nearly pointless weapon but not what I would consider powerful.

"And not a "PEEP" out of the NRA this week."
That would be BATF territory, since that weapons is registered under they NFA. Expecting a response from the National Rifle Association about an accident involving a machine pistol seems a little crazy.
I don't expect a response from the NTSB, DOT or a vehicle manufacture ever time a child is killed.
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:3,911
Points:51,965
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 8:27:42 AM

.
< CliffFisher: "And not a "PEEP" out of the NRA this week." >

. The NRA peeped:

"7 Ways Children Can Have Fun at the Shooting Range" "

. Then they pulled it about an hour later...

+ NRA Kids Stuff +

[Edited by: BuzzLOL at 8/30/2014 8:29:51 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 8:24:08 AM

"Cliffy - why should there be a "peep" out of the NRA on this. Did they have any connection to this incident?"

Yes, a gun was involved. See the unanimous comments below - NRA could easily make a statement to the point made by many below regarding children handling powerful weapons...
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:3,911
Points:51,965
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Aug 30, 2014 8:21:45 AM

.
. Partial scholarships available for Pro-2nd Amendment college students...:

+ NFGR Scholarships +
.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:27,421
Points:1,430,160
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 8:18:07 PM

Cliffy - why should there be a "peep" out of the NRA on this. Did they have any connection to this incident?
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:3,911
Points:51,965
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 6:27:17 PM

.
. Sign up for FREE by Sunday to win August's $11,500 Iron Ridge Arms .308 Semi-automatic Patrol Rifle package...

"This custom-built IRA Patrol Rifle comes equipped with a brand new IR Defense Thermal imager, hand-milled Iron Ridge Arms upper and Lower receiver, a Leiner-Wise .308 BCG, Daniel Defense Handguard, 16" Barrel Mid Weight type with Muzzle Break, Iron Ridge Trigger pack, and 4 Coated MagPul .308 PMags."

+ WIN Patrol Rifle +
.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 1:18:20 PM

Cliffisher - "No one is qualified to have a child firing full auto."

That would depend on the particular child involved, his/her physical capabilities as well as prior experience with firearms.

Letting anyone who has, essentially, no prior experience with firearms fire a weapon in full-auto is irresponsible.
Profile Pic
Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

Posts:29,821
Points:3,632,675
Joined:Sep 2003
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 9:12:43 AM

And not a "PEEP" out of the NRA this week.
Profile Pic
Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

Posts:29,821
Points:3,632,675
Joined:Sep 2003
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 9:12:01 AM

The fact that a parent would allow an eight year old to fire an gun on full auto and kill himself is criminal.

The nine year old girl let go of the gun with her left hand as soon as she pulled the trigger. All full autos walk up and out when fired on full auto.

No one is qualified to have a child firing full auto.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 8:42:38 AM

"Exactly. I don't know about the other services, but in Air Force basic, way back when, trainees were not allowed to fire full-auto. The instructors were VERY (7:-[) clear about that."

When training on M-16's in ROTC courses (ie fun college credits to distract from math, science, etc), the same rule applied.

Of course, in order to fire the weapon we first had to show the ability to disassembled and reassemble it as well as competency in other basic areas of gun safety.

I won the Valentine's Day shooting competition that year ;)
Profile Pic
Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

Posts:2,497
Points:136,545
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Aug 29, 2014 12:23:13 AM

Full auto's just a way to waste a LOT of money in a very short time frame. Few people can really control the gun, the barrel will rise, and that's what happened.

Having said that, I've been to several ranges that allowed customers to rent and fire full auto - Thompson's, AK's, AR's, and Uzi's. Very popular.
Profile Pic
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:7,910
Points:1,145,455
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 8:10:57 PM

>>Exactly. I don't know about the other services, but in Air Force basic, way back when, trainees were not allowed to fire full-auto. The instructors were VERY (7:-[) clear about that.<<

Back in 1983 when I went through Army basic we got to fire two twenty round magazines on full auto. I was only able to get three or four rounds in the target with each mag at 150m. It was explained that full auto was typically a tremendous waste of ammo and you couldn't carry enough rounds to sustain that rate of fire. That was the only time I ever fired any weapon on full auto.

[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 8/28/2014 8:12:43 PM EST]
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,437
Points:328,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 6:59:14 PM

I actually don't care for full auto or burst.

Only full auto I might be interested in is the American 180.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 28, 2014 6:30:30 PM

johnnyg1200 - "Not just because I couldn't afford to feed that thing but because she was not ready for that type of weapon."

Exactly. I don't know about the other services, but in Air Force basic, way back when, trainees were not allowed to fire full-auto. The instructors were VERY (7:-[) clear about that.
Profile Pic
johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:7,910
Points:1,145,455
Joined:May 2011
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 8:47:48 PM

>When I was that old I had been hunting with a 22 and a shotgun for a couple of years already but no way would anyone have given me a full auto firearm to play with. <

When I took my 19 year old daughter to the range to introduce her to hand guns we saw a man rent and fire a fully automatic rifle. My daughter wanted to try it out and my response was "no way in hell". Not just because I couldn't afford to feed that thing but because she was not ready for that type of weapon. She was very careful with the 9mm and followed all of my instruction to the letter. But she was still very nervous firing the hand gun. I didn't want to hand her a weapon that shoots as long as you hold the trigger or until it goes click.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,437
Points:328,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 7:46:57 PM

"True - cars are not designed with the intent to destroy."

That's funny because any one of my vehicles has killed more animals than all my guns put together. Mostly song birds.

" is funding a proposition with his money "

One proposition in one state, they can have it.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 3:38:49 PM

Weaslespit - "If I see an AK out in public, I can promise you I am walking in the opposite direction - IMMEDIATELY."

Based on the information given in the article, there doesn't seem to be any real justification for charges against the other 3 individuals.

Looking at other articles on the incident, I still don't see anything that justifies the charges.

[Edited by: rjhenn at 8/27/2014 3:44:58 PM EST]
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 3:35:25 PM

Weaslespit - "In your opinion."

My rational opinion. 7;-]

"Anybody can create a 'what-if' scenario to try to prove their point... A gun can kill you with high probability from point-blank to 100ft - think you can achieve that same probability with a bat or a knife from distance?"

The probability, at least for deliberate harm, goes down rapidly with increasing range with a handgun, and even with a rifle if the usual "spray and pray" is done. A knife tends to be more lethal than a gun at close range (up to, say, 20 feet or so).

"Which is a further deflection from the point being discussed."

Again, not really. Legal restrictions tend to affect the law-abiding much more than they affect criminals.

"And when they are caught they are penalized accordingly. Standard practice for breaking the law."

Which doesn't stop people from driving without a license, or stop convicted felons from having guns.

"That isn't at all what you posted. You very clearly posted that you don't think, given today's laws, that you are unlikely to get shot."

Ignoring the double negative (7;-]), it being unlikely that any one individual will get shot doesn't justify increasing the odds that an area where many people congregate will be attacked.

"Lol, c'mon... Now you sound like a Liberal ;)"

I'm often accused of that, when I'm not being accused of sounding like some knuckle-dragging conservative.

"True - cars are not designed with the intent to destroy."

Yet it requires a lot of care to NOT destroy with a car.

"I am familiar with cars 'and' guns... I own a gun and very familiar with their capabilities, hence my view towards them being toted as an accessory in public like a purse or a cell phone."

I do believe that anyone who carries a gun should get proper training. Then again, I think that basic gun safety (of the "Don't touch. Walk away. Tell an adult" variety) should be taught starting in preschool, and safe gun handling probably in middle school, if not earlier.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:27,421
Points:1,430,160
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 3:28:34 PM

What happened at that range is really dumb. Want to bet the young lady has little if any experience in shooting.

When I was that old I had been hunting with a 22 and a shotgun for a couple of years already but no way would anyone have given me a full auto firearm to play with.

Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 3:16:43 PM

MiddletownMarty - "Kinda makes you wonder."

Yeah, wonder why anyone would be stupid enough to put a full-auto weapon in the hands of a child not big enough to control the recoil.
Profile Pic
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

Posts:21,424
Points:316,190
Joined:Jul 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 2:29:24 PM

"What kind of a gun instructor gives a 9 year-old an Uzi to fire, much-less in full auto?"

That sort of thing has happened before... in 2008 to be exact, when 8 year old Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn. shot himself in the head while firing an Uzi under adult supervision at a gun fair.

Kinda makes you wonder.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:46:31 PM

If I see an AK out in public, I can promise you I am walking in the opposite direction - IMMEDIATELY.

Call it an irrational fear if you must.

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 8/27/2014 12:46:43 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:45:21 PM

What kind of a gun instructor gives a 9 year-old an Uzi to fire, much-less in full auto?
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 9:29:59 AM

"Still irrational."

In your opinion.

"Any difference in the odds would depend on a number of factors, some of which might make your odds better against a gun."

Anybody can create a 'what-if' scenario to try to prove their point... A gun can kill you with high probability from point-blank to 100ft - think you can achieve that same probability with a bat or a knife from distance?

"Since most proposed restrictions on firearms would make it less likely that you could be armed when the need arose, not really."

Which is a further deflection from the point being discussed. It doesn't matter 'which' gun is restricted, regarding your original comment about an 'irrational fear of guns'.

"Plenty of people operate without a license, both on and off public roads."

And when they are caught they are penalized accordingly. Standard practice for breaking the law.

"Gun-free zones increase the odds of an attack."

That isn't at all what you posted. You very clearly posted that you don't think, given today's laws, that you are unlikely to get shot.

"While it may not do any net good, if it doesn't do any harm, why not?"

Lol, c'mon... Now you sound like a Liberal ;)

"Still, cars don't invoke the same level of paranoia as guns do."

True - cars are not designed with the intent to destroy.

"A big part of that, of course, is that everyone is familiar with cars."

I am familiar with cars 'and' guns... I own a gun and very familiar with their capabilities, hence my view towards them being toted as an accessory in public like a purse or a cell phone.
Profile Pic
MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

Posts:21,424
Points:316,190
Joined:Jul 2008
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 7:45:35 AM

Responsible Gun Instructor Shot And Killed By 9 Y.O. Girl With An Uzi


An instructor who was shot by a 9-year-old girl who fired an Uzi at a northwestern Arizona shooting range died Monday night at University Medical Center in Las Vegas.

The girl fired the weapon at the outdoor range that caters to heavy tourism traffic along U.S. Highway 93 between Las Vegas and the Grand Canyon Skywalk.

Highway signage and Internet advertising beckons visitors to stop in, fire a machine gun and enjoy a meal at the Bullets and Burgers enterprise at the Last Stop, about 25 miles south of Las Vegas.

The Mohave County Sheriff’s Office said the accidental shooting occurred about 10 a.m. Spokeswoman Trish Carter said the girl, who was vacationing from New Jersey with her parents, was standing next to the instructor at the time.

Mohave County Sheriff Jim McCabe said the girl safely and successfully fired the 9 mm weapon several times when it was set in the “single-shot” mode.

He said the weapon was put into the “fully-automatic” mode before the girl fired again with the instructor standing off to her left. The weapon recoiled and drifted left as the girl squeezed off an undetermined number of rounds as she maintained possession but lost control of the Uzi as it raised up above her head.

“The guy just dropped,” McCabe said of shooting instructor Charles Vacca, 39, of Lake Havasu City, who suffered at least one gunshot to the head.



Kinda makes you wonder.
Profile Pic
Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

Posts:19,464
Points:2,335,070
Joined:Jan 2004
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 2:59:36 AM

Finally, Bill Gates is funding a proposition with his money and history of success on his causes that will, in his State of Washington defeat the NRA on something the majority of voters approve and that they, the NRA, can't outspend to defeat the majority's will as the NRA has been able to do historically. This is a new beginning!
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,437
Points:328,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 27, 2014 12:20:49 AM

"I guess them Chi thugs dont like the idea that granny might fight back - - snicker snort...."

I expect the liberals to reply with a one off tragedy. Pull out the old "if it will just save one life" fallacy.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:27,421
Points:1,430,160
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Aug 26, 2014 10:43:53 PM

It sure seems to be working here - # CCW up --- crime down. Kinda makes one wonder doesnt it. Is there a connection - will the Martyites admit it?
.
.
>>>Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year, according to police department statistics. Reports of burglary and motor vehicle theft are down 20 percent and 26 percent, respectively. In the first quarter, the city’s homicide rate was at a 56-year low.“It isn’t any coincidence crime rates started to go down when concealed carry was permitted. Just the idea that the criminals don’t know who’s armed and who isn’t has a deterrence effect,” said Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association. “The police department hasn’t changed a single tactic — they haven’t announced a shift in policy or of course — and yet you have these incredible numbers.”<<<

I guess them Chi thugs dont like the idea that granny might fight back - - snicker snort....
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,437
Points:328,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 10:16:57 PM

" What is the first thing most parents teach their kids as soon as they are old enough to walk?"

From what I have seen it looks like they are teaching their kids to just walk out into traffic.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 6:02:23 PM

Weaslespit - "The comment was made that a knife or a baseball bat can kill you just as dead, which the response was simply that one would have higher odds of surviving an encounter with those weapons than a gun. This originated from the comment that people have an irrational fear of guns, and why was this the case."

Still irrational. Any difference in the odds would depend on a number of factors, some of which might make your odds better against a gun.

"You moved the goalposts by then describing which weapon would be most effective in defending yourself, which is another topic entirely."

Since most proposed restrictions on firearms would make it less likely that you could be armed when the need arose, not really.

"Sure they do - you have to have a license to operate a vehicle. Not many people deliberately purchase something that they can't use..."

But they can. And you only need a license to legally operate a vehicle, and then only on the public roads. Plenty of people operate without a license, both on and off public roads.

"So if we are unlikely to get shot now, why do we need more concealed carry and elimination of gun-free zones?"

Gun-free zones increase the odds of an attack. And I haven't seen any data to indicate that more concealed carry does any harm. While it may not do any net good, if it doesn't do any harm, why not?

"If you don't pay attention around cars, you can kill or be killed. If you don't pay attention around guns, you can kill or be killed. Still seems similar to me."

Still, cars don't invoke the same level of paranoia as guns do. Otherwise there'd be widespread movements to restrict cars more than is necessary.

A big part of that, of course, is that everyone is familiar with cars.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 3:45:20 PM

"How so?"

The comment was made that a knife or a baseball bat can kill you just as dead, which the response was simply that one would have higher odds of surviving an encounter with those weapons than a gun. This originated from the comment that people have an irrational fear of guns, and why was this the case.

You moved the goalposts by then describing which weapon would be most effective in defending yourself, which is another topic entirely.

"But they don't restrict who can own or operate the vehicle."

Sure they do - you have to have a license to operate a vehicle. Not many people deliberately purchase something that they can't use...

"If we don't have stricter gun control, you're still unlikely to get shot."

So if we are unlikely to get shot now, why do we need more concealed carry and elimination of gun-free zones?

"If you don't look both ways, you're likely to get run over...Qualitative and quantitative difference."

If you don't pay attention around cars, you can kill or be killed. If you don't pay attention around guns, you can kill or be killed. Still seems similar to me.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 2:52:08 PM

Weaslespit - "But now you are moving the goalposts."

How so?

"Ask an auto manufacturer if they can sell a new car without one of these safety features..."

But they don't restrict who can own or operate the vehicle.

"They don't? What is the first thing most parents teach their kids as soon as they are old enough to walk?"

If you don't look both ways, you're likely to get run over. If we don't have stricter gun control, you're still unlikely to get shot. Qualitative and quantitative difference.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 2:44:26 PM

"And your odds are better if you're armed..."

But now you are moving the goalposts.

"Those aren't really "restrictions"."

Ask an auto manufacturer if they can sell a new car without one of these safety features...

"But cars don't invoke the same level of paranoia as guns do."

They don't? What is the first thing most parents teach their kids as soon as they are old enough to walk?
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 2:40:45 PM

Weaslespit - "Again, it all goes back to 'odds'..."

And your odds are better if you're armed, while your unarmed odds against any weapon are greatly reduced, unless, perhaps, you've got extensive martial arts training.

"Yes, some are much easier and more efficient than others."

Which isn't what I asked.

"Strawman."

Not at all. You brought up accidental deaths. It's obvious that cars are more of a threat there than guns.

"But yes, there are already strict restrictions such as seat belts, air bags, collapsible steering column et al that have been added over the decades (soon to be back-up cameras, etc)."

Those aren't really "restrictions". And auto accidents still kill more than all firearm deaths. Obviously we need more restrictive laws on who's allowed to own or operate cars.

But cars don't invoke the same level of paranoia as guns do.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 2:07:03 PM

"They can kill you just as dead."

Again, it all goes back to 'odds'...

"Or is there some qualitative difference between being killed by a gun and being killed by other means?"

Yes, some are much easier and more efficient than others.

"So we need stricter restrictions on cars, which kill more people accidentally than guns do deliberately."

Strawman. But yes, there are already strict restrictions such as seat belts, air bags, collapsible steering column et al that have been added over the decades (soon to be back-up cameras, etc).
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 1:57:44 PM

Weaslespit - "Which I would much rather be confronted with over a gun, should the situation arise..."

They can kill you just as dead.

"See above."

Or is there some qualitative difference between being killed by a gun and being killed by other means?

"See above. Additionally, even responsible gun owners make mistakes (ie gun is loaded when it is thought to be empty, etc)."

So we need stricter restrictions on cars, which kill more people accidentally than guns do deliberately.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 8:11:07 AM

"Or a knife or a baseball bat or ..."

Which I would much rather be confronted with over a gun, should the situation arise...

"I said, paranoia about guns, rather than violently unstable people."

See above.

"IOW, why is it only guns that worry you?"

See above. Additionally, even responsible gun owners make mistakes (ie gun is loaded when it is thought to be empty, etc).
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:3,911
Points:51,965
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 10:11:19 AM

.
. Waitresses all packing heat in Shooter's Café in Rifle, Colorado...

+ Whackos Beware: No Sitting Ducks Served in Shooter's Cafe +
.
Profile Pic
Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

Posts:2,497
Points:136,545
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 12:15:24 PM

Some bumper sticker philosophy:

If guns cause crime, mine are defective

Average response time to a 911 call - 20 minutes. Average response time of a 357 - 1,200 fps.

You never really need a gun until you really need a gun

Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:3,911
Points:51,965
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 8:05:23 PM

.
< "Do you assume that everybody you see carrying a gun has good intentions? Seems like a rather naïve attitude to me..." >

. Let me explain how to tell the difference:

. If they have the gun in their holster or a rifle on their back ready to protect themselves and you, they are the good guys...

. If they have a gun stuck in your face robbing you or killing you, they are the bad guys...

. Anyone who is confused, re-read the above 87 times until you have it memorized...
.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,437
Points:328,850
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 8:00:37 PM

"paranoia about guns, rather than violently unstable people."

I have made the same observation.
Profile Pic
rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

Posts:27,625
Points:2,708,310
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 5:51:58 PM

Weaslespit - "You never know when you are going to run into somebody carrying a gun who has become unstable."

Or a knife or a baseball bat or ....

"Do you assume that everybody you see carrying a gun has good intentions? Seems like a rather naïve attitude to me..."

Like I said, paranoia about guns, rather than violently unstable people.

"Stating the obvious - stable people typically don't go on shooting rampages triggered by an emotional event. I don't actively provoke people in public so there is no reason for a stable person to discharge a weapon around me... Friendly fire of course is a different story but the odds are low of that occurrence."

I think the point of his question was the "with a gun" part, not the "unstable people" part.

IOW, why is it only guns that worry you? That's probably directed more at those like Marty, but you seem to have some of the same attitude.
Profile Pic
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

Posts:15,324
Points:515,985
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 9:30:06 AM

"You're far more likely to die in a car accident due to a drunk driver than to be shot to death."

Still an apples-to-oranges comparison in an attempt by those on the Right to minimize the issue.

"You really cant figure it out?"

I didn't see any kind of reference and I'm not a big fan of making assumptions if I don't have to...
Post a reply Back to Topics