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Author Topic: The NRA's idea does not work. Back to Topics
Michiganian

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Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 4:11:46 PM

Just ask the survivors at Columbine HS, Fort Hood and Virginia Tech.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2014 11:22:49 AM

The company that makes an aftershave lotion that smells like Hoppes #9 will get rich.....
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2014 11:16:00 AM

I used to like cleaning my guns, but got over it.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 11:13:53 AM

"I have to force myself to practice."

I love to practice. Cleaning after practice, not so much.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 11:01:59 AM

" thats fine if you practice a lot. Most folks dont. Like I said my preference would be a 45ACP 1911 model because I shot one a lot. Dont have to feel around or try to figure out where things are in a hurry."

Good point about practice and "feel". People get busy and it's hard to find time. I have a farm with a range I built. Still, I have to force myself to practice. Every time I go there I set up a target and fire two magazines. Only takes a few minutes.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 12:50:52 AM

Just bought my first 1911, a combined birthday/christmas gift to myself. It's a Ruger SR 1911 Commander. First 50 rounds right out of the box were dead on. Guess it doesn't need a break-in period.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2014 7:16:24 PM

"my preference would be a 45ACP 1911"

Yea, yea I know. {;>)

You like .45, I like my 9mm with a 15 round magazine. I practice every Wednesday. Fifteen rounds, center mass @25 yards. I practice with one box of ammo and go home. It is only 10 yards from my recliner to the front door, so I feel very secure.

Racking the slide? Pffft! Boom is the only warning the perp would get from me.

Now if I was in bed, I would roll onto the floor, rack the slide, call 911, and wait for the perp to appear in the bedroom door.

[Edited by: SE3.5 at 11/20/2014 7:16:46 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2014 4:55:25 PM

Cirdan - thats fine if you practice a lot. Most folks dont. Like I said my preference would be a 45ACP 1911 model because I shot one a lot. Dont have to feel around or try to figure out where things are in a hurry.

As far as the first round being supposedly 'non-lethal' nope wouldnt do that at all. If I were to pick up a firearm I have already made up my mind I will eliminate the threat. Also would not have an empty chamber so the bad guy would not hear the slide being wracked. If he was very lucky he might hear the slight snick of the safety being switched to the fire position.

Still the best thing it to live where that idea just isnt a real concern.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2014 1:28:24 AM

My choice is a 9 mm with hollow point ammunition and a light. I also practice a lot, so I don't recommend breaking into my house in the middle of the night. It could be hazardous to your health.

Personally, I never bought into the "rack the slide" approach. A retired cop told me he keeps a 12-guage under the bed. First round is rubber pellets. That's your warning. The rest are 00 buckshot. For those who didn't get the message with the first shot.

Final thought - which I made before - for this kind of crime, the perp is usually a drug addict. Don't count on rational thought.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2014 8:18:53 PM

"For those that believe in a shotgun for home defense, here are some things to consider. First, if someone has the nerve to break into your home, do you really think they'll become unnerved by racking a pump shotgun?"

I couldn't care less how someone feels about the sound of a round being chambered. If someone enters my house and threatens me, they have more to be concerned with than the sound of a round being chambered.

"Next, take something that approximates the size of a shotgun, say a household broom, and use it to go room to room in your home to check out that bump in the night. Since it's a shotgun, you'll have to keep both hands on it at all times. "

That's why I have a flashlight mounted on the magazine of my 870 Remington. But, why would you go room to room (like in the movies)? Lock the door, call 911 and wait for the Mounties.

"Try it yourself. Finally, try deploying a shotgun on two different targets. "

It's called doubles in skeet. Two targets in less than one second.

Any weapon is better than nothing. But, being a hero by doing room to room searches is not what I would recommend. Run away, pepper spray, and a bullet as a last resort for defense.

Just my opinion.
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migwitch
All-Star Author Green Bay

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2014 5:47:52 PM

For those that believe in a shotgun for home defense, here are some things to consider. First, if someone has the nerve to break into your home, do you really think they'll become unnerved by racking a pump shotgun? It may happen that way in the movies, but reality rarely follows a script. Next, take something that approximates the size of a shotgun, say a household broom, and use it to go room to room in your home to check out that bump in the night. Since it's a shotgun, you'll have to keep both hands on it at all times. That leaves you no free hand to hold a flashlight. Next, try deploying your shotgun broom down a hallway or stairway. You'll have to bring most of your body out into the open in order to bring a shotgun into action. Compare that with peaking around the corner into a hallway and bringing a handgun to bear on an intruder. See what I'm getting at here? It's much easier to use a handgun in the confines of a house that it is a shotgun. Try it yourself. Finally, try deploying a shotgun on two different targets. Since it has to swing through a larger arc, the shotgun takes much longer to get on multiple targets compared to simply flicking your wrist to get a handgun on two or more targets.

If all you have is a shotgun, congratulations for being an armed citizen. But if you really want to protect your home and family, I believe there are better choices one can and should deploy in the home.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2014 10:12:09 AM

SoylentGrain - I heartily agree with you on your choice of loads. Most folks dont understand the desirability of 27 22 caliber lead balls in a single shot.

If I were to have a firearm in the house for home defense I would probably choose a 1911 45 ACP but only because I shot one for a few years in quasi competition and am very familiar with it.

For folks who dont have lots of experience with a handgun and who have not shot one extensively then the next best is a shotgun with #4 buck as you mentioned. If not that then one of the AR 15 clones shooting rounds loaded with Sierra 52 gr HP bullets.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2014 10:03:57 AM

I prefer the 12 gauge with 4 buck for self defense. The smaller buckshot will not penetrate multiple layers of drywall and siding like the mid to large caliber handgun projectiles. That said, the large and small frame handguns remain loaded in the dresser.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2014 8:36:08 AM

"And no need for police, either. 7;-]"

Traffic infractions are of a much higher rate... :)
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2014 1:56:38 AM

Weaslespit - "So then there is no need to conceal carry, much less arm teachers, right? ;)"

And no need for police, either. 7;-]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 8:53:45 PM

Either one is better than nothing...
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 7:47:38 PM

>>"Not so good for a 12 gauge."

Nope, but I would prefer a handgun for home protection anyway...<<

I like the 12 gauge because my wife and daughters are the ones who are home while I am at work. The sound of a shot gun being racked is supposedly the most recognized sound in the world. They can stay in the bedroom and slid the rack and everyone will know what is on the other side of the door. Hopefully anyone who is planning harm will decide to leave. If they don't a shot gun at close range will almost always score a hit and will usually render a person incapable of continuing an illegal act.

This is just my opinion and I have read articles that both agree with and disagree with this stand.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 7:46:32 PM

"Apparently you are betting your life on it.

Fortunately, the odds of it coming down to that are pretty low."

So then there is no need to conceal carry, much less arm teachers, right? ;)
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 7:27:01 PM

SE yes outliers do occur but as a rule out here there honestly is little to worry about.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 7:24:39 PM

SE3.5 - "Would you like to bet your life on it? {:>)"

Apparently you are betting your life on it.

Fortunately, the odds of it coming down to that are pretty low.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 12:03:30 PM

"Who he?"

Murder of Clutter family remembered.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 11:07:24 AM

who he?
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 10:20:41 AM

"I kind of like living where folks are polite and crime is very low."

Herbert Clutter probably felt the same way back in 1959. (Just remembering)
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 10:06:48 AM

Weasle - I hear you. Nothing in life is a certitude. However where I live the number of homes that do own multiple firearms and the number of folks who are CC permitted or just carry without a permit is very high. The incidence of home invasion type crimes is vanishingly small and the number of any kind of crime where I might need a firearm is very low. Therefore I have somewhat of a heard immunity from the need to personally possess a firearm for protection.

I kind of like living where folks are polite and crime is very low. I used to own a fair amount of firearms and I used to hunt and shoot on a bush league competition concept for a long time. I enjoyed it a lot. I am glad I never had to use my guns for a defensive purpose. Now that I have stopped being active in the shooting sports and have disposed of all my guns and reloading stuff its nice to live where there really is little need to defend yourself against crime.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 9:36:22 AM

"Sure am glad to live in a place where I dont need to own a gun any more."

You never know... There are no absolutes in life.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2014 9:35:38 AM

"Not so good for a 12 gauge."

Nope, but I would prefer a handgun for home protection anyway...

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 7:41:34 PM

Sure am glad to live in a place where I dont need to own a gun any more.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 7:39:49 PM

>>>>"There is a biometric safe on the market (about the size of a large book), which only requires YOUR hand to be placed on it to pop it open. It can sit safely on your nightstand or anywhere else you want quick access."

That is along the lines of what I had in mind! <<<<<<

Not so good for a 12 gauge.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 5:40:53 PM

<<"I am absolutely certain the intruder will be dead before he gets to my finger."

I doubt you're really that stupid.>>

Would you like to bet your life on it? {:>)
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 5:19:06 PM

SE3.5 - "Puleaze. if a perp uses my finger to open my gun safe, I am already dead."

Or drugged, or knocked unconscious.

"I am absolutely certain the intruder will be dead before he gets to my finger."

I doubt you're really that stupid.

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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 5:16:41 PM

"One of the problems with biometrics."

Puleaze. if a perp uses my finger to open my gun safe, I am already dead. I am absolutely certain the intruder will be dead before he gets to my finger.

[Edited by: SE3.5 at 11/17/2014 5:17:09 PM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 5:03:00 PM

SE3.5 - "I did not see that movie."

There was a scene where Snipes breaks out of prison by removing the warden's eye and using it to open the iris-scanning locks.

One of the problems with biometrics.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 4:43:39 PM

"I did not see that movie."

Many didn't, lol. Not one of Stallone's (nor Snipes') finest...
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 4:24:25 PM

""Demolition Man", anyone?"

I did not see that movie.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 4:21:50 PM

SE3.5 - "There is a biometric safe on the market (about the size of a large book), which only requires YOUR hand to be placed on it to pop it open."

"Demolition Man", anyone?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 12:55:47 PM

"There is a biometric safe on the market (about the size of a large book), which only requires YOUR hand to be placed on it to pop it open. It can sit safely on your nightstand or anywhere else you want quick access."

That is along the lines of what I had in mind!
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 12:50:27 PM

There is a biometric safe on the market (about the size of a large book), which only requires YOUR hand to be placed on it to pop it open. It can sit safely on your nightstand or anywhere else you want quick access.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 12:40:12 PM

"That would be in the top dresser drawer, full magazine, no chambered round."

Would also need to be in some kind of a safe in my house...
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 12:38:28 PM

"Agreed - as long as they are stored safely and responsibly to prevent accidental discharge by unauthorized users."

That would be in the top dresser drawer, full magazine, no chambered round.

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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 12:19:14 PM

"Gallup poll released last week finds 63% of Americans believe having a gun in the house makes it a safer place."

Agreed - as long as they are stored safely and responsibly to prevent accidental discharge by unauthorized users.

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 11/17/2014 12:20:15 PM EST]
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 10:08:46 AM

The Ladies home companion will make your house really safe.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 9:55:44 AM

I certainly feel safer with guns in my home. Too many criminals and crazies out there.

[Edited by: teacher_tim at 11/17/2014 9:55:55 AM EST]
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 9:52:13 AM

Ditto.
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2014 1:01:39 AM

I agree.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2014 1:44:49 PM

Gallup poll released last week finds 63% of Americans believe having a gun in the house makes it a safer place.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2014 8:30:02 AM

"Firearms ownership at an all time high and murder rates continue to fall."

The good guys are buying spares.
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WES03
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2014 8:27:31 AM

Firearms ownership at an all time high and murder rates continue to fall. You can look it up.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2014 12:05:31 PM

"Given how prevalent high capacity magazines already are, I would have to agree that limiting them now would be a waste and have zero effect."

As proven by the brady bill ban.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2014 1:12:55 PM

"limiting them now would be a waste and have zero effect."

The ingenuity of most veterans (and others) will almost always outmaneuver government attempts to limit anything. In the old days when the M-16 came with just 20 round magazines, a little surgical tape "borrowed" from the medics could easily transform the 20 rounders into 40 rounders, and taping magazines together allowed a GI to carry twice as much ammo in each magazine pouch.

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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2014 12:55:05 PM

jeskibuff - "Oh, we'll see quite a LOT more than just the curtailing of gun control laws. Getting conservatives into office is good, but getting liberals OUT of office is even better!"

Not sure why that would be. Both sides promote more idiocy than is good for the country.

And both sides tend to cater to their benefactors.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2014 8:44:05 AM

"I'm sorry, but the Acoustic Research-15 turntable was intended only to play top-quality LPs, not 45's or 78's. ;)"

Turntable? Oh yeah, isn't that what a DJ uses to make those scratchy sounds. :>)
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