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Author Topic: The NRA's idea does not work. Back to Topics
Michiganian

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Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 4:11:46 PM

Just ask the survivors at Columbine HS, Fort Hood and Virginia Tech.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 12:12:12 AM

"Besides comparing apples to oranges, who was this diatribe aimed at?"

You're far more likely to die in a car accident due to a drunk driver than to be shot to death.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 10:22:32 PM

"Besides comparing apples to oranges, who was this diatribe aimed at?"

You really cant figure it out?
Maybe you have MTM blocked?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 7:22:45 PM

"Oh wait, I forgot, the tens of thousands of people killed every year by drunk drives don't do anything to further the liberal agenda."

Besides comparing apples to oranges, who was this diatribe aimed at?
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 7:21:20 PM

"Why is it only unstable people with a gun you worry about?"

Stating the obvious - stable people typically don't go on shooting rampages triggered by an emotional event. I don't actively provoke people in public so there is no reason for a stable person to discharge a weapon around me... Friendly fire of course is a different story but the odds are low of that occurrence.

Are you afraid of stable people who carry?
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 6:20:07 PM

More failure of liberal gun control policies:

NYPD Takes Fewer Guns Off the Streets as Shootings Rise, Stats Show

"NEW YORK CITY — The number of guns taken off the streets by the NYPD has fallen to a new low as gun violence jumped since Mayor Bill de Blasio took office this year, DNAinfo New York has learned.

Police statistics show 1,935 guns were seized this year in the city as of Aug. 17 — a 2 percent drop over the same period last year when 1,975 weapons were recovered.

While the decline is not dramatic, it continues a steep four-year downturn that some observers believe is linked to the plunge in stop-and-frisks as well as a reluctance of officers to engage the public since an inspector general was created to monitor the NYPD amid sharp criticism of its actions."

It once again proves you can't elect a liberal Democrat and not expect failure.

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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 4:25:12 PM

Very disappointing. As an English major I know you spent 4 years reading short stories, books and watching movies and condensing it all down to a short paragraph or two.
Looks like you are telling us you cant put together what happened?

Here are the cliff notes:

"shots fired outside the Old Heidelberg restaurant and bar"
"Employees at [the bar] would not confirm if Lampien had been drinking before the incident"
"Lampien’s wife [said] that she had not been with her husband when the shooting happened on Saturday night."

(actually I have never used cliff notes so this is only what I imagine they would look like, so if I am totally wrong, that is why, but you get the idea)

"Gov. Nathan Deal (R) signed House Bill 60, which allows guns to be carried in bars and other places."

Virginia, texas and most states have laws like this too, guess what. It is still against the law to carry any weapon to a bar legally or not and consume any alcohol. Which is sad because legally you can go to a bar, consume some alcohol and then still drive.

What about the 50 to 100 people that were killed in the U.S. the same Saturday night when some one left the bar got in their vehicle after consuming alcohol and killed some one, some couple or some family? Do you blame the vehicle?
How many stories a day do you find where some one gets drunk and accidently shoots some one after they leave the bar?

Oh wait, I forgot, the tens of thousands of people killed every year by drunk drives don't do anything to further the liberal agenda.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 8/21/2014 4:26:43 PM EST]
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 3:55:09 PM

"You never know when you are going to run into somebody carrying a gun who has become unstable. "

Why is it only unstable people with a gun you worry about?

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 8/21/2014 3:56:39 PM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 3:24:24 PM

"It's purely about their paranoia about guns."

You never know when you are going to run into somebody carrying a gun who has become unstable.

Do you assume that everybody you see carrying a gun has good intentions? Seems like a rather naïve attitude to me...
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 1:48:09 PM

Passer - "It's about not allowing children to be the NRA's Bleeding hearts anymore."

If that were true, they wouldn't be supporting cosmetic efforts such as gun-free zones, which not only don't help, but actually make things worse.

Of course, that might be the point.

For some, gun control isn't about control, or deaths. It's purely about their paranoia about guns.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 2:01:00 AM

"Gun control isn't about guns.

It's about control."

Just ask Connecticut

It's about not allowing children to be the NRA's Bleeding hearts anymore.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 11:52:26 PM

MiddletownMarty - "Another Responsible Gun Owner Kills Nearby Woman With Stray Bullet"

Another bit of propaganda from Marty.

"Employees at the Old Heidelberg said that they have been instructed not to talk about the case, and would not confirm if Lampien had been drinking before the incident. Less than two months ago, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) signed House Bill 60, which allows guns to be carried in bars and other places."

And no one is saying whether or not Lampien has a CHL, so we don't know if he was carrying it legally or not. He does, apparently, have an old DUI conviction.

If he was a "responsible gun owner", he wouldn't have been drinking to excess while armed, no matter what the law says. If he wasn't, he would probably have ignored the law.

So, as usual, there doesn't seem to be any point to your post.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 9:06:23 PM

Another Responsible Gun Owner Kills Nearby Woman With Stray Bullet


Police believe a man outside a bar in Georgia accidentally shot himself in the hand, and the same bullet killed a woman across the street.

Police on Saturday responded to a call of shots fired outside the Old Heidelberg restaurant and bar, and found 53-year-old Glenn Patrick Lampien sitting on a bench, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Lampien was bleeding from a gunshot wound to his hand.

Officers soon learned that a Texas woman across the street had been shot by the same bullet that traveled through Lampien's hand. Attempts to save the woman at the scene were not successful, and she was pronounced dead.

A statement from police on Sunday said that Lampien would be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Employees at the Old Heidelberg said that they have been instructed not to talk about the case, and would not confirm if Lampien had been drinking before the incident. Less than two months ago, Gov. Nathan Deal (R) signed House Bill 60, which allows guns to be carried in bars and other places.

Lampien’s wife told the Atlanta Journal Constitution that she had not been with her husband when the shooting happened on Saturday night.

“I don’t know what happened myself,” she insisted. “It’s an unfortunate situation.”

All evidence in the case had been turned over to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which will assist in the investigation.



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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Aug 19, 2014 1:41:08 AM

.
. U.S. Park Police can't find THOUSANDS of their guns! Including machine guns...

+ Park Police Missing Guns +
.

[Edited by: BuzzLOL at 8/19/2014 1:41:33 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 5:38:02 PM

"If I recall correctly, they urged people to avoid the situation in the first place, leave if possible before it escalated, and shoot to kill if necessary.

And only if necessary."

And to not escalate through various dialogue, etc.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 5:03:21 PM

Weaslespit - "They were from a pro-gun site that urged people to not escalate an armed encounter..."

If I recall correctly, they urged people to avoid the situation in the first place, leave if possible before it escalated, and shoot to kill if necessary.

And only if necessary.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 4:53:15 PM

Passer - "President Reagan & his press secretary learned first hand what lack of reasonable gun control could do."

So countries with "reasonable gun control" don't ever have political assassinations, even attempted ones?

"His press secretary, to his eternal credit, devoted the rest of his life to his sacred cause."

What a waste, when he could have done something useful. Just like Gabby Giffords, devoting his life to something that, even if he'd succeeded, would have made no difference to anyone at all.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 3:54:49 PM

"someone who had the chance to do something positive"

It was very positive. They proved junk law making like the "brady bill" doesn't work.
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Passer
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 2:23:51 PM

President Reagan & his press secretary learned first hand what lack of reasonable gun control could do.

His press secretary, to his eternal credit, devoted the rest of his life to his sacred cause.

A PRAYER here for James Brady, another homicide and at least James was among the rarest of individuals --

someone who had the chance to do something positive about his own homicide!

Amen
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 11:00:53 AM

"Not that high."

Given the number of robberies vs. the number of deaths/shootings during a robbery, I think you might find I am correct.

"Vaguely. They, of course, have dropped off."

They were from a pro-gun site that urged people to not escalate an armed encounter...
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 5:27:31 AM

.
< "Troller_Diesel: "Gun control isn't about guns. It's about control. Just ask Canadians.[link]" " >

. Should make it easy to understand that abortion control isn't about abortion, it's about CONTROL...
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 12:10:57 AM

Troller_Diesel - "Australia Gun Control - Big Failure"

You need to find something better than an apparent propaganda from almost 15 years ago.

What is significant is that, from 1993 to the latest data, both the US and Australia saw almost identical percentage decreases in their homicide rates, without similar changes in the law in the US. And the current proportion of Australian homicides committed with guns is about the same as it was before Australia's stricter gun laws.

Those facts argue strongly that Australia's stricter gun laws had little or no effect on much of anything, and that some other factor is likely to be the cause.

That appears to be taking lead out of gasoline.

[Edited by: rjhenn at 8/18/2014 12:11:32 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 18, 2014 12:00:33 AM

gas_too_high - "That's BS. That's not what Marty said. Don't put words in someone elses's mouth, as you have done with me, many times."

What Marty is saying, without actually saying so, is that nobody should be allowed to have guns. That's why he brings up everything he can find to try and show that guns are evil.

"I see the point you're trying to make, and I happen to agree with it. But you need to find a different and more honest way of making your points."

When Marty starts being honest, then it will be possible to actually address his points.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 7:03:02 PM

" Loudoun County sheriff’s deputy shot his teenage daughter at their Winchester home after mistaking her for an intruder"

You post this after lecturing us on anecdotes?
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 3:46:05 PM

Troller_Diesel: "Gun control isn't about guns. It's about control. Just ask Canadians.[link]"

That linked article is well worth reading, and not just about Canadian gun control. In fact, buried in that article are 2 broader points relevant to gun control:

- Crime rates are more about demographic factors, than gun laws.

- Canadians tolerate gun control, indeed government control and paternalism, much more readily than most Americans do. (I have long believed that Americans are much more individualistic and self-reliant, and much less tolerant of big government, than almost all other peoples on earth).

These points both explain why gun control is largely irrelevant to crime rates; and why many pursue gun control regardless of the facts. That is, gun control advocates are more disposed to the role of government in their lives, and much less tolerant of privately held guns.

That certainly applies to American gun control advocates, and certainly to MiddletownMarty (aka Mr. "Let abolish the Second Amendment").

GTH
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 11:48:11 AM

Gun control isn't about guns.

It's about control.

Just ask Massachusetts.

[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/16/2014 11:55:49 AM EST]
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 11:46:59 AM

"While gun controllers often point admiringly to the restrictive gun policies of other nations, they fail to point out the way those policies are enforced. Not only would most foreign gun laws violate the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, they would violate the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, which strictly regulate government searches, seizures, and confiscations."

Gun control isn't about guns.

It's about control.

Just ask Canadians.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 11:44:42 AM

Bun control isn't about guns.

It's about control.

Just ask Australians.

Australia Gun Control - Big Failure

[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/16/2014 11:45:14 AM EST]
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 9:49:41 AM

Gun control isn't about guns.

It's about control.

Just ask the Jews in Warsaw in 1942...
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 9:38:02 AM

MiddletownMarty - "Responsible Gun Owner Of The Day Shot His Daughter As She Entered Their House"

rjhenn: "So you're saying that cops shouldn't be allowed to have guns?"

That's BS. That's not what Marty said. Don't put words in someone elses's mouth, as you have done with me, many times.

I see the point you're trying to make, and I happen to agree with it. But you need to find a different and more honest way of making your points.

GTH

[Edited by: gas_too_high at 8/16/2014 9:38:58 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 7:05:57 PM

MiddletownMarty - "Responsible Gun Owner Of The Day Shot His Daughter As She Entered Their House"

So you're saying that cops shouldn't be allowed to have guns?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 7:05:39 PM

Weaslespit - "Yes. You have better odds of surviving a robbery if you don't escalate the situation. The odds are high that they are simply looking for money, not mayhem."

Not that high.

"Remember those tips I linked to a while back?"

Vaguely. They, of course, have dropped off.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 7:02:55 PM

Weaslespit said: "Somebody hasn't been following recent executions lately"

Well, there might have been a slight delay, but it'll come...just you wait!
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 6:17:34 PM

Responsible Gun Owner Of The Day Shot His Daughter As She Entered Their House


A Loudoun County sheriff’s deputy shot his teenage daughter at their Winchester home after mistaking her for an intruder, then crashed his car as he tried to race her to the hospital, according to the Frederick County Sheriff’s Office.

The shooting occurred about 3:30 a.m. Tuesday, when Easton McDonald, a sergeant with the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office, responded to a home security alarm that alerted him to an open garage door, said Capt. Donnie Lang of the Frederick sheriff’s office.

As McDonald approached the garage, he heard noises coming from outside the door, Lang said.

“He figured someone had broken into the garage, and his family was upstairs asleep,” Lang said.

At that point, McDonald retrieved a privately owned gun — not his service weapon, Lang said — and opened the door. McDonald saw the dark shape of a person coming toward him, Lang said.

“At that particular point, he discharges his firearm and strikes the person in the torso area,” Lang said. “Then he hears her voice and recognizes that it’s his daughter.”



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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 2:51:51 PM

"So, just wait until you have no chance, as they herd you into the freezer?"

Yes. You have better odds of surviving a robbery if you don't escalate the situation. The odds are high that they are simply looking for money, not mayhem.

Remember those tips I linked to a while back?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 2:38:05 PM

Weaslespit - "Which is exactly why you don't escalate a robbery by trying to be John Wayne..."

So, just wait until you have no chance, as they herd you into the freezer?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 2:37:15 PM

Troller_Diesel - "Except liberals' belief in unicorn-fart and rainbow-powered Utopia tends to lead them into extremely black-and-white 'thinking.'"

I see just about as much "extremely black-and-white 'thinking'" coming from conservatives who have a fantasy they insist on believing in.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 10:24:26 AM

"Death and taxes."

Somebody hasn't been following recent executions lately... <s>
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 10:23:46 AM

"About all you can do is improve your odds."

Which is exactly why you don't escalate a robbery by trying to be John Wayne...
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2014 2:43:36 PM

" Actually, I cannot think of anything that ALWAYS works."

Death and taxes.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2014 1:12:58 PM

"There's very little that "always" works."

I agree. Actually, I cannot think of anything that ALWAYS works.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2014 1:03:42 PM

True, rjhenn, true. Except liberals' belief in unicorn-fart and rainbow-powered Utopia tends to lead them into extremely black-and-white "thinking."

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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 8:43:10 PM

soutxed - "NRA's idea of more good guys with guns does not always work."

There's very little that "always" works. About all you can do is improve your odds.
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 11:32:58 AM

So, who has a better chance? An armed good guy, or a 100 unarmed good guys?

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soutxed
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 9:30:13 AM

Armed good guy (A border patrol agent) killed in robbery attempt gone bad. Happen in South Texas as two low level theives who had not killed anyone in previous attempts killed an armed off duty border patrol agent. NRA's idea of more good guys with guns does not always work.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 7:02:11 PM

Smart does not equal safe.

All we need is these smart guns to malfunction once in a situation where "the first cop gets killed because some smart part of his gun fails" or some idiots testing a loaded smart gun out on each other and one gets shot.
The only thing you can bet on these days is electronic systems to malfunction.

So to build a smart gun that works flawlessly in each situation I don't see happening. When a product is engineered, where there are 2 types of failures. One failure is acceptable, one is not.
The best example of this A or B failure mode is a smoke detector. If the smoke detector goes off occasionally where there is no smoke/fire that is ok just irritating, but if it fails to alarm when there is smoke people die. One failure mode is acceptable, one is not.

With a gun if it fires or does not fire at the correct moment all the time, people can die ether way.

"Smart guns might make inroads in the market after they become standard issue for all police."

Lets hope they do. Then what ever gun design they go with I will buy one and figure out how to jam or disable them from a distance.
Or build a smart gun detector like that person I know who built a cop car detector.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 6:56:40 PM

Worked good here too - even if she did take chances she didnt have to or shouldnt have.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 6:26:12 PM

Defending yourself with a firearm worked pretty good here it seems.
.
.
>>>A Florida man who had every good reason to carry a firearm for self-protection used it to defend himself Wednesday evening after a teenage gang member with a long rap sheet pulled a gun on him and allegedly opened fire.

Virgis Canteen, 43, and Davion Smith, 14, had encountered each other before.

According to Lakeland police records, Canteen accused the young gang member of burglarizing his apartment last month, the Orlando Sentinel reported.
.
.
Despite his age, Smith had amassed an extensive police record. According to the Sentinel, court records showed that Smith had been convicted of felony armed robbery with a gun twice since the age of 12. He also had convictions for burglary of a habitat and for battery on a public or school official.

The Lakeland Ledger provided more detail of Smith’s rap sheet. That paper reported that the known gang member was arrested in Nov. 2012 following a shooting at a farmer’s market that left a 79-year-old man wounded. Besides armed robbery, Smith and six other accomplices were charged with attempted murder.

According to the Lakeland Ledger, Canteen does not have a police record in Polk County.

Though it is unknown whether Canteen had a concealed carry permit, he had ample reason to carry a firearm.

He suffered life-threatening injuries after he was shot during a robbery four years ago, the Ledger reported.<<<

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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 3:50:20 PM

GTH: "I bet that once "smart guns" start getting marketed in the US, someone will figure out how to bypass the "smart" mechanism."

weaselspit: "What would be the point of that when you can just purchase a gun without having to defeat the smart mechanism?"

The point is, it may not be legal in some places to purchase a gun without "smart" technology. New Jersey appears to be such a place, 2 years after "smart" guns started being marketed.

GTH
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 2:23:43 PM

Weaslespit - "What would be the point of that when you can just purchase a gun without having to defeat the smart mechanism?"

Well, if New Jersey becomes the norm, after a few decades that might be the only way to get a stolen gun.

Then, from the other side, if you can remotely disable all, or most, guns in an area, you've given yourself a tactical advantage. Homeowners or businesses with only smart guns might find themselves becoming targets.

Much like gun-free zones now.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 2:20:16 PM

MiddletownMarty - "Yeah. RJ has been on my ignore list for quite a long time"

I'm honored.

"I'm glad for the reassurance that I'm not missing anything."

Except facts and logic.

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