flyboyUT
Champion Author
Utah
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 8:48:11 PM
Johnny - when I was still shooting I reloaded all my ammo - rifle - pistol and shotgun. A word of advise - buy the highest quality reloading tools you can get. I used mostly RCBS brand. Really high quality tools like the presses and scale etc make a huge difference in the quality of the finished product.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author
Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 6:17:10 PM
Make sure the first aid kit is well-stocked.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 6:03:00 PM
"I have started to look into reloading equipment."
I would think most enthusiasts have at this point.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author
St. Louis
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 5:55:56 PM
>>>>>Weaslespit, ""1 People can manufacture their own ammunition"
Sure they can, but the 47% who are too lazy (and are probably most of the law breakers, right?) won't. They will ask for free bullets that they feel "entitled" to which will only be rationed out 1 at a time per 'food stamp'."
No, if bullets were $5,000 each, many people would not be too lazy to manufacture their own ammo.<<<<<<<
I have started to look into reloading equipment.
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01DuraMAX
Champion Author
Tacoma
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 4:47:08 PM
GREAT Analysis RJ !!!
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ldheinz
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 4:31:40 PM
MiddletownMarty - "The upside down elephant is, of course, dead. "
You didn't shoot it, now, did you? ;-D
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 4:24:39 PM
It's about 350 years old, but still one of the better analyses:
"A principal source of errors and injustice are false ideas of utility. For example: that legislator has false ideas of utility who considers particular more than general conveniences, who had rather command the sentiments of mankind than excite them, who dares say to reason, 'Be thou a slave;' who would sacrifice a thousand real advantages to the fear of an imaginary or trifling inconvenience; who would deprive men of the use of fire for fear of their being burnt, and of water for fear of their being drowned; and who knows of no means of preventing evil but by destroying it.
The laws of this nature are those which forbid to wear arms, disarming those only who are not disposed to commit the crime which the laws mean to prevent. Can it be supposed, that those who have the courage to violate the most sacred laws of humanity, and the most important of the code, will respect the less considerable and arbitrary injunctions, the violation of which is so easy, and of so little comparative importance? Does not the execution of this law deprive the subject of that personal liberty, so dear to mankind and to the wise legislator? And does it not subject the innocent to all the disagreeable circumstances that should only fall on the guilty? It certainly makes the situation of the assaulted worse, and of the assailants better, and rather encourages than prevents murder, as it requires less courage to attack unarmed than armed persons."
Cesare Beccaria, "An Essay on Crimes & Punishments, translated from the Italian with a commentary, attributed to M. de Voltaire, translated from the French" (New York: Stephen Gould, 1809), 124-125.
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 3:55:12 PM
nstrdnvstr - "No, if bullets were $5,000 each, many people would not be too lazy to manufacture their own ammo."
If legal bullets were $5,000 each, there'd be a huge black market in ammunition.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author
Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 3:19:56 PM
The upside down elephant is, of course, dead.
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kiatoindos
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 2:48:55 PM
I'd always like to see an upside down elephant than a right side up jack ass!!!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 12:50:08 PM
"No one is talking about mass shooting except for you."
Everyone is, EXCEPT you. Where do you think this debate originated? A random homicide in Minneapolis?
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 12:42:08 PM
Weaslespit, ""1 People can manufacture their own ammunition"
Sure they can, but the 47% who are too lazy (and are probably most of the law breakers, right?) won't. They will ask for free bullets that they feel "entitled" to which will only be rationed out 1 at a time per 'food stamp'."
No, if bullets were $5,000 each, many people would not be too lazy to manufacture their own ammo.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author
Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 12:24:56 PM
"I have had it right all along Marty, and the Supreme Court upheld the right to bear arms."
We know this. We also know it was a 5-4 decision and that time might change that.
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oilpan4
Champion Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 11:33:27 AM
"Note - NONE of the past mass shootings would have been 'mass shootings' if a muzzle loader were used".
No one is talking about mass shooting except for you.
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01DuraMAX
Champion Author
Tacoma
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 11:08:11 AM
Marty says "At least you quoted the entire text, including those pesky parts about the well-regulated militia and security of a free state. Kudos. You finally got it right."
I have had it right all along Marty, and the Supreme Court upheld the right to bear arms.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 10:52:30 AM
"Note: Obsolete muzzle loading weapons do not require a background check when buying them."
Note - NONE of the past mass shootings would have been 'mass shootings' if a muzzle loader were used.
Did I really need to have to point that out to you? Really?
"1 People can manufacture their own ammunition"
Sure they can, but the 47% who are too lazy (and are probably most of the law breakers, right?) won't. They will ask for free bullets that they feel "entitled" to which will only be rationed out 1 at a time per 'food stamp'.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 10:48:17 AM
"ask why they don't have the time to enforce it."
Why ask when the answer is evident? The funding is not there. The End.
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WES03
Champion Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 10:45:22 AM
"Price each bullet at $5,000.00?" Great idea. Anyone who has some ammo can undercut the market and get rich quick.
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ldheinz
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 10:01:09 AM
nstrdnvstr - "So people will make their own bullets. How will that stop anything? "
I can make nerve gas. Give me some fissionable material and I can make an atomic bomb. But guns are much better for home defense.
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oilpan4
Champion Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 9:57:10 AM
"I like Chris Rocks idea. Price each bullet at $5,000.00."
That is the stupidest idea I have heard all year.
There are 2 problems here.
1 People can manufacture their own ammunition
2 Obsolete (but still effective) muzzle loaded "cap and ball" weapons do not use fixed ammunition.
Note: Obsolete muzzle loading weapons do not require a background check when buying them.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 9:21:34 AM
eldiablopoco, "I like Chris Rocks idea. Price each bullet at $5,000.00."
So people will make their own bullets.
How will that stop anything?
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author
Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 9:09:07 AM
"When everyone gets tired of this one let's start on the 1st amendment-after the holiday! "
Go for it now. Avoid the holiday rush.
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ldheinz
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 9:01:40 AM
jeskibuff - " They feel good because they're doing SOMETHING! Doesn't matter if it works or not... "
But it DOES work on what really matters - getting reelected...
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jeskibuff
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: May 23, 2013 7:02:52 AM
rjhenn said: "if reducing gun violence and gun death doesn't reduce total violence and total violent death, what's the point? Just to make some people feel better?"
Apparently that's the goal. They feel good because they're doing SOMETHING! Doesn't matter if it works or not...
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kiatoindos
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 8:18:20 PM
When everyone gets tired of this one let's start on the 1st amendment-after the holiday!
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kiatoindos
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 8:13:26 PM
Yea chris rock now that's class act in fact he should run for president keep the streak rollin.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author
Utah
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 8:11:14 PM
Weasle - ask why they don't have the time to enforce it. The person who made that statement was Joe Biden. It was in reference to only prosecuting something like 70 people out of more than 70,000 who knowingly broke the existing gun control laws concerning who is legal to buy a gun or not.
Why does the BATF only prosecute a fraction of one percent of known felons attempting to purchase a gun where they filled out the forms. That doesn't even touch the straw purchasers etc.
Like I said earlier something like only 1% of felons get their guns from gun shows. So why then force a massive program to try and deal with that miniscule problem when they refuse to deal with know felons knowingly breaking the existing law.
The only thing that makes sense is that the people who are proposing this and pushing it have other motives from what they say.
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 8:06:26 PM
eldiablopoco - "I like Chris Rocks idea. Price each bullet at $5,000.00."
Just another way, like our current drug laws, to give more power to criminals.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 8:05:01 PM
"If the law your bound and determine to pass will not be enforced because "we don't have time for it" then no don't pass the law."
Again, if the only reason a law is not enforced is simply because "we don't have time for it", that is a problem - be it a current or proposed law.
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eldiablopoco
All-Star Author
Grand Rapids
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 7:50:23 PM
I like Chris Rocks idea. Price each bullet at $5,000.00.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author
Utah
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 7:46:22 PM
RJ - we don't agree on much but we do seem to agree on this. Now will you be able to get those like Marty to even listen. When he and at least two other liberal leaners here are told 'facts' they don't like they immediately place that person on Iggy. Interesting isn't it.....
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MiddletownMarty
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Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 6:30:48 PM
"If law enforcement 'doesn't have time' to enforce the laws, that sounds like something worthy of a Congressional hearing to me..."
Indeed. Insist that laws be enforced, and hire more law enforcement if that's the problem. Otherwise, hire more effective law enforcement.
"If no one needs a mag over 10 rds the no one needs a car or motorcycle that will go faster than the states max speed limit!"
Sounds reasonable.
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rjhenn
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Des Moines
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 6:07:11 PM
flyboyUT - "It all depends on the laws your talking about. If the laws you wish to pass will have zero impact on the problem your trying to solve - no don't pass that law."
Exactly.
"First you might consider defining just what the problem is that you wish to resolve with the new laws.
To many here it seems that the purpose of the law is just to only restrict the ownership of firearms because some people are frightened by them or just don't wish others to have them."
If you actually listen to the arguments for stricter gun laws, that's exactly the conclusion you have to draw. The focus is on "guns", "gun violence" and "gun death", with no attempt being made to link any of that with the broader problems of violence and violent death.
And if reducing gun violence and gun death doesn't reduce total violence and total violent death, what's the point? Just to make some people feel better?
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flyboyUT
Champion Author
Utah
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 5:09:29 PM
Weasle read again very carefully what I said --- "If the law your bound and determine to pass will not be enforced because "we don't have time for it" then no don't pass the law."
Now just what does that tell you? What it tells me is that if for whatever myriad of reasons you/we choose not to enforce existing law it is less than pointless to pass more laws to tell law enforcement to do more of what they already are not doing. Why would anyone wish to spend even more money and use the excuse of its to prevent gun crime when it is already known it will not do any good?
Only 1% of the criminals obtain their firearms from gun shows - why then would you wish to spend millions of dollars trying to implement a new law that will not solve the problem?
Kind of reminds me a lot of saying we need to pass a law making it illegal for everyone to drink because some folks drink to excess.
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kiatoindos
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 4:58:52 PM
If no one needs a mag over 10 rds the no one needs a car or motorcycle that will go faster than the states max speed limit! Have fun trying to ban those!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 4:09:43 PM
"If the law your bound and determine to pass will not be enforced because "we don't have time for it" then no don't pass the law."
If law enforcement 'doesn't have time' to enforce the laws, that sounds like something worthy of a Congressional hearing to me...
Something is broke and needs to be fixed, that is not an answer that should just be accepted!
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flyboyUT
Champion Author
Utah
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 3:31:38 PM
"So we shouldn't make any more laws?"
It all depends on the laws your talking about. If the laws you wish to pass will have zero impact on the problem your trying to solve - no don't pass that law.
If the law your bound and determine to pass will not be enforced because "we don't have time for it" then no don't pass the law.
First you might consider defining just what the problem is that you wish to resolve with the new laws.
To many here it seems that the purpose of the law is just to only restrict the ownership of firearms because some people are frightened by them or just don't wish others to have them.
Now if the real reason some wish some new laws in this area is to either dissuade criminals from committing more crimes or to convince people who are already proscribed from firearm ownership to not get a gun. Well there are known ways to do that - but many people will not like them because they are too harsh. So instead of dealing with criminal they will try to restrict the Rights of non-criminals. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to most folks.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author
Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 3:16:17 PM
"So we shouldn't make any more laws? "
Of course. Laws against murder don't stop murders, so lets get rid of those. Laws against speeding don't stop speeding, so let's eliminate those too. It's a very strange position for one to take who belongs to the law-and-order party.
"I can't beleive they surived using just a handgun - I thought an AR-15 was required during home invasions!"
With a mega-ammo magazine.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 3:12:14 PM
johnny>>>"People only obey the law they want to."
So we shouldn't make any more laws?
Passer>>>"All those laws that the 9-11 terrorists broke. They didn't work so lets get rid of all laws against Terrorism and all laws against guns.
Are there any NRA brainwashed members who can see that the NRA based "logic" in the above, doesn't make sense?
It's one thing to be against any type of laws restricting guns. It is another thing to use stupidity to base your arguments on. It is clear that the current "leaders" of the NRA will never win any honorary awards from any organization that is reputable. I would say, "something to think about" but the NRA leaders have given up any type of rational thinking, long, long ago for their current Prime Directive, "sell, sell, sell guns and ammo". They have reduced themselves to being nothing but K-Street Prostitutes."
Exactly!
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Weaslespit
Champion Author
Cincinnati
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 3:09:41 PM
"I only ask that Marty and Passer give us a reason why you believe these last few cases should NOT have the ability to protect themselves and their friends and families."
I can't beleive they surived using just a handgun - I thought an AR-15 was required during home invasions!
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author
Connecticut
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 3:00:34 PM
At least you quoted the entire text, including those pesky parts about the well-regulated militia and security of a free state. Kudos. You finally got it right.
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kiatoindos
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 12:51:52 PM
Thank you
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01DuraMAX
Champion Author
Tacoma
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 12:14:49 PM
MiddletownMarty - "Now... about guns..."
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Period. End of Story...
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ldheinz
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 11:20:47 AM
MiddletownMarty - "Now... about guns..."
Guns are different, because one of the reasons to own guns is to be able to overthrow the government when the time comes. Therefore it is important to NOT have them registered with the government so that the government CAN'T take them away.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 10:11:17 AM
MiddletownMarty, ".... Failure to produce registration documentation upon demand by a police officer carries serious consequences. Drivers are tested prior to licensing and must renew their licenses periodically. Drivers are also required to carry liability insurance. Failure to produce a license or proof of insurance upon demand by a law enforcement officer also carries serious consequences.
Now... about guns..."
Does it say anywhere in the Constitution that the government shall not infringe on the rights of the people to own a personal transportation vehicle?
Now... about guns...
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oilpan4
Champion Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 9:47:10 AM
"Why do you need to retitle and reregister a car when you move to a different state?"
You wont need to because it will be part of a massive federal program. Only time you will have to reregister and retile the gun is if you move from one gun registering state to another gun registering state.
"If a car is found after it's stolen they can give the remains back to the person who owned it."
More like bill the cars owner for cleaning up the remains.
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kiatoindos
Veteran Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 4:40:48 AM
Liberals need to crawl into their government controlled plastic bubbles no concept of what goes on in real world!
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author
St. Louis
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Message Posted: May 22, 2013 12:27:06 AM
Why do you need to retitle and reregister a car when you move to a different state?
I forgot one other reason for auto registration. If a car is found after it's stolen they can give the remains back to the person who owned it.
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 11:51:51 PM
MiddletownMarty - "Cars bear a unique VIN and are registered by the state to establish the owner; the title to a car establishes ownership history."
Why do you need to register a car to establish the owner, when the state records the title, which establishes the owner?
Why do you need to reregister a car every year?
Why do you need to retitle and reregister a car when you move to a different state?
Face it, the whole system has nothing to do with public safety. It's all about income for the government.
[Edited by: rjhenn at 5/21/2013 11:53:11 PM EST]
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author
St. Louis
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Message Posted: May 21, 2013 8:12:26 PM
One more thing about cars. My idiot brother in-law drove his car into a ditch when he was drunk. He went to court for that DUI and the other TWO outstanding ones all at the same time. He got a huge fine, 14 days in jail and a six month suspension of his license.
The first week out of jail he bought a used car, registered it, with insurance and was driving that day. He did stop drinking not because of the DUI’s or the cost but because he was in jail during youth season and had to explain to his son that he locked up instead of taking him hunting.
People only obey the law they want to.
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