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Author Topic: The BEST description of the Conservative viewpoint now a days, I have heard yet. Back to Topics
btc1

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Lexington

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 1:24:45 PM

"Mann and Ornstein are two longtime centrist Washington fixtures who earlier this year dramatically rejected the strictures of false equivalency that bind so much of the capital's media elite and publicly concluded that GOP leaders have become "ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

The 2012 campaign further proved their point, they both said in recent interviews. It also exposed how fabulists and liars can exploit the elite media's fear of being seen as taking sides."

Lies from Republicans generally and standardbearer Mitt Romney in particular weren't limited to the occasional TV ads, either; the party's most central campaign principles -- that federal spending doesn't create jobs, that reducing taxes on the rich could create jobs and lower the deficit -- willfully disregarded the truth.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 5:58:55 PM

He lives in "no-man's" land, YDraig. He and the rest do not want to know what reality is all about.

Most of them are old and retired and think it gives them the ability to tell the rest of us how wrong WE are! Yet, they cannot even comprehend change, let along understand it.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 5:31:55 PM

Wrong again, flyboy.

The grants are to find out if is is occuring, not by anyone who expects it to occur.

As a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), I get to read the actual experiments, observations, and facts presented by scientists from all over the world. ALL the facts now point to the inescapable conclusion that the climate is rapidly changing (in archaeological time, of course). No real scientist can ever ascociate a particular storm or weather event to climate change, but they can measure the frequency and intensity ove a long time span. But that does not stop some fools from saying they did. And other fools will believe him.

We are constantly subjected to the ramblings of the Anti Science Society (ASS) that still thinks Noah had dinosaurs on the ark.

No one is trying to "prove" global warming. They are trying to save ignorant fools like you from the consequences of that warming. THAT is their real goal.

With an attitude like that, you don't deserve it.

If someone yells "Incoming", you don't argue about the trajectory of the shell.

You DUCK.

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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 8:39:08 AM

Gee Steve,
You left out how those who "are NOT being paid to advocate any particular agenda" stand to gain the most from it financially as they aren't required to abide by the proposed regulations and taxes.

Maybe they aren't getting a paycheck or research funding, but they would certainly get "paid" big time.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 8:32:15 AM

Liberals have it all figured out. Yeah, sure.

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/13/2012 8:33:31 AM EST]
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 8:31:39 AM

I guess we will find out about all of those "lies" after we go off the fiscal cliff and taxes are raised on everyone.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 7:53:46 AM

The problem with your argument, fly, is this:

1. Most of those trying to tell us that what we already see isn't really happening are on the take from the fossil fuel industry. ( And make no mistake. They are a minority of science. )

2. Most of those in agreement with the majority of the planet ( and I am talking not just of the USA ) are NOT being paid to advocate any particular agenda.

It should be convincing enough to realize that the USA is the one place where the most people are in denial of what is happening and also the one place where the economy is most dependent on maintaining the maximum energy use per capita, AND ( big surprise ) the one place where the most denial PR is being perpetrated ie; the most money is spent on trying to convince people to reject mainstream science.

-Because the profits of extracting and distributing fossil fuels are only exceeded by the greed of those multi-millionaires whose lifestyles are dependent upon them.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 11:33:55 PM

Steve are yo trying to tell us that the scientists who live an die on the grants given to them and their organizations by glowbull warming advocates and governments are not shills for what there emplyeers demand? Give me a break will you.....

How many need to be caught in the games as in the English researchers where they attempted to stifle opposeing data and people.

You accuse one side of being dishonest scientists adn will not look at the proven dishonesty of the glowbull warming terrorists.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 11:28:18 PM

Even though the vast majority of scientists hold that global warming is real and human-caused the media gives equal weight to the industry-funded minority of scientists who say exactly what they are being paid to say: that there is some doubt we are bringing about our own demise; - partly because the media is fearful to alienate some of their largest customers, the mega-corporations and their owners who must pay the media large PR sums to pass off their message that burning things is good for our habitat.

What is sad is the number of dumb-struck viewers who watch these commercials and actually believe that coal can be green and our oily habits are clean and gas is an (ha ha) 'energy of the future.' What they don't tell you is that that future is one of intense storms, droughts, wild fires, rising sea levels, vanishing species, floods, water shortages, hunger, starvation and death on a mass scale.
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xrdc
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 7:07:14 PM


"The mainstream media, afraid of being labeled as "liberal"...does its best to be even-handed, even though Romney and/or others on the right may have been telling far more lies than Obama and/or those on the left. Because if the MSM reported on the lies in proportion to how often each side lied, they'd have to report more lies coming from the right, and then they'd be called biased...by those on the right."

So the media, out of sudden concern to appear neutral, goes out of its way to avoid criticising the right too much?

That is 'The Onion'-caliber right there...

=-=-
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 4:33:54 PM

The largest single emloyer in the entire world is the US military.

I'm not talking about military personell. I'm talking about all the jobs at United Technology, Rockwell Collins, Sykorsky, GE, Alliant Techsystems. I'm talking about the thousands of companies that make everything from ball point pens to aircraft carriers.

Odd how so many people that decry the government creating jobs can get so angry when we suggest cutting back the biggest job creator in the whole world.

But then, that industry is also the largest wealth creating entity for the upper .01%, so maybe that makes up for it somehow. It's OK for the government to create wealth for rich people, just not for the rest of us.
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 2:06:59 PM

Af, " Where would we all be without them?" Stuck on the irrational right side of center.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 12:54:56 PM

"Yes, some more than others, along with many of those on the right who substitute their opinions and generalizations for facts."

And we do not see that on the left? I am so glad the left is so perfect. Where would we all be without them?
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 12:21:13 PM

"the experts who tout glowbull warming"

Some day, I will do a spreadsheet comparing the numbers of cutesy misspelling of the names of politicians or political issues, and see where the balance lies. But until I have that much time to waste, it seems pretty obvious what the answer will be.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:37:28 AM

And the experts who tout glowbull warming are the likes of Al Gore - his credentials are impecable and he is a world renowned climatologist right.

Kinda reminds me of the experts who wanted to eliminate logging because it was laying waste to the forest - that worked out real well didnt it. They said we have to eliminate loging because it makes 10-40 acre clearcuts that are spread over space and time and are replanted. This supposedly destroyed the forest. So as an alternative tjhe said no moer management. Professional foresters said we would get insect outbreaks and massivbe forest fires in about 30-5- years - guess what folks - your getting 100,000 acre burns now instead of 40 acre cuts - enjoy....
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:28:53 AM

Or you can be like some here, who instead of assessing what is said, just give a blanket condemnation to all who offer their opinions:
"Come one...they are politicians! They all lie!"
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:27:47 AM

<<The mainstream media, afraid of being labeled as "liberal" (although right-wingers such as flyboy will label anyone or anything that is not as far right-wing as they are "liberal", anyway), does its best to be even-handed, even though Romney and/or others on the right may have been telling far more lies than Obama and/or those on the left. Because if the MSM reported on the lies in proportion to how often each side lied, they'd have to report more lies coming from the right, and then they'd be called biased (well, they are, anyway) by those on the right.>>

Yes. This phenomenon is best described as the problem of false equivalence. Reporters want to report two sides to every story, but that leads them to report a less logical, sensible side, if there is one.

Viz., the "arguments" against global warming. Since the people who don't think there is a problem (or are paid to say there isn't one) tend to be fringe scientists, the fact that their opinions are sought and compared to the leading scientists on the other side raises the value of their commentary far above its actual worth.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 5:25:16 PM

Ahh, thank you Nick. Excellent correction.

So the timeline looks more like this:

2001 +128B (last balanced budget)
2002 -157B
2003 -357B
2004 -412B
2005 -318B
2006 -248B
2007 -160B
2008 -458B (Great Recession hits, jobs lost - revenue dropping)
2009 -1.4T (first full year after the Great Recession hits. Includes stimulus)
2010 -1.3T (recession impact in full swing. Revenue down, unemployment pay-out up)
2011 -1.3T (recession impact in full swing. Revenue stabilized, unemployment pay-out steady)
2012 -1.1T (recession impact beginning to lessen. Revenue up, unemployment pay-out steady)

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 12/10/2012 5:26:14 PM EST]
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 5:12:30 PM

But were supposed to forget the whoppers told by liberals every day? Talk about wilfully disregarding the truth, put obama at the head of the class on that one.
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 1:53:41 PM

>>Come one...they are politicians! They all lie!<<

Yes, some more than others, along with many of those on the right who substitute their opinions and generalizations for facts.

 
>>Let's look at that time line using major economic events instead of slanted political references:<<

How about we look at that time line using *REAL* numbers:

FY2012 *1.089T* (Revenue *UP*, spending *DOWN* for 2nd time in 3 years)

That's not the "1.3T" that was mentioned in previous posts for FY2012. In fact, it's a 16% smaller deficit than the "1.3" number, and an almost 23% smaller deficit than FY2009.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 12:36:57 PM

Just heard on the news that Maryland is contemplating raising taxes to pay for the bureaucracy for Obamacare... GOOD THING it's SAVING US MONEY!
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 12:22:39 PM

Let's look at that time line using major economic events instead of slanted political references:

2001 +128B (last balanced budget)
2002 -157B
2003 -357B
2004 -412B
2005 -318B
2006 -248B
2007 -160B
2008 -458B (Great Recession hits, jobs lost - revenue dropping)
2009 -1.4T (first full year after the Great Recession hits. Includes stimulus)
2010 -1.3T (recession impact in full swing. Revenue down, unemployment pay-out up)
2011 -1.3T (recession impact in full swing. Revenue down, unemployment pay-out up)
2012 -1.3T (recession impact in full swing. Revenue down, unemployment pay-out up)

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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 11:51:16 AM

Oh yes Nick...and the left is so full of truth tellers!

Like Democrats lining up to defend Fannie and Freddie but then blaming Bush even though the bubble was growing in 2004 when they were all making that claim.

Or how about the claim that health insurance will decline in costs with ObamaCare?

Come one...they are politicians! They all lie!
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 11:30:36 AM

Getting back to the topic...

My wife and I have discussed this very point many times. The mainstream media, afraid of being labeled as "liberal" (although right-wingers such as flyboy will label anyone or anything that is not as far right-wing as they are "liberal", anyway), does its best to be even-handed, even though Romney and/or others on the right may have been telling far more lies than Obama and/or those on the left. Because if the MSM reported on the lies in proportion to how often each side lied, they'd have to report more lies coming from the right, and then they'd be called biased (well, they are, anyway) by those on the right.

Righties know this, so they feel comfortable telling more lies. We saw it in the campaign, we see it with the talking heads, and we see it here on GasBuddy. "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers" seems to an attribute not only of the Romney campaign, but of so many on the right, as well.
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worryfree
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 6:21:49 PM

But but but the Bush tax cuts increased revenue and helped the wealthy hire a lot more people. Didn't they??
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 5:31:45 PM

Cliff, So economic decline over the past 4 years causing less tax revenues than expected. Who inflated our Nation's energy and whack-a-moled every US employer (except Costco and GE)?

You have owned at minimum two-thirds of Washington governance, including 100% for a short period of time.

Are you really counting on the public to continue buying the line for another 4 years: "its Republicans, not us that caused your problems -- we are waiting for them to do something to fix it". Forget Democrats rode into town in 2008 saying they would fix it -- then nothing happened

We are a society demanding fast and instant everything -- Democrats wont get away with this much longer (but are arrogant enough to think they can anyways).
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 2:25:09 PM

The difference between the projected and actual debt in 2011 can be largely attributed to:

$3.5 trillion – Economic changes (including lower than expected tax revenues and higher safety net spending due to recession)
$1.6 trillion – Bush Tax Cuts (EGTRRA and JGTRRA), primarily tax cuts but also some smaller spending increases
$1.5 trillion - Increased non-defense discretionary spending
$1.4 trillion – Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq
$1.4 trillion - Incremental interest due to higher debt balances
$0.9 trillion - Obama stimulus and tax cuts (ARRA and Tax Act of 2010)[38]
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 12:46:58 PM

"We are paying for the Bush Administration"

Fine, however, we should be more concerned with how we are going to pay for the Obama administration. Taxing everyone over 250K at a 100% rate wont cover it.

Budget shortfall:
2001 +128B (last balanced budget)
2002 -157B
2003 -357B
2004 -412B
2005 -318B
2006 -248B
2007 -160B (Democrats takes House)
2008 -458B (Election year, Democrats sweep)
2009 -1.4T (Obama President, full Democrat control of Congress, no budget)
2010 -1.3T (Republicans take back House, no budget)
2011 -1.3T (no budget)
2012 -1.3T (no budget)

We have yet to see the anticipated shortfalls in funding for Obamacare!
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btc1
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 11:05:21 AM

We are paying for the Bush Administration, e_jeepin.

Check it out from 2001 to present.
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 4:40:43 PM

The assumption here that the honest candidate won and the loser lied full time attempting to beat the honest candidate.

Exaggerations in a campaign are a given and usually taken with a grain of salt. However, Romney was called a liar for every word he spoke while Obama was not questioned. In fact, Romney questioning him made Romney a Liar!! "oh that Romney plan wont work" is a shopped opinion, not a confirmed lie.

Don't try to blow smoke up our skirts that somehow Obama really was honest all along and we failed to listen to reason. We know better, we lived it, and now pay dearly for it. His own words and actions prove it -- not by our opinion.

Now get to work fixing what you said you would 4 years ago -- Obama isn't going to be allowed to coast for another 4 years while spending time golfing or overseeing the construction of his Presidential Library.


[Edited by: e_jeepin at 12/8/2012 4:42:19 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 4:36:09 PM

Well lets see here - HuffPo calls them centrists. So in the real world that makes them flaming liberals I guess.
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