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Author Topic: Obama stamps foot, demands no-limit credit card Back to Topics
flyboyUT

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 6:36:56 PM

Not only no Mr. Obama --- BUT HELL NO!
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>>>President Barack Obama says he won’t come out of his room to negotiate his government’s allowance until Congress gives him a credit card with no spending limit.

“If Congress in any way suggests that they’re going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation… I will not play that game,” Obama huffed to a room full of business executives, whose own prosperity rests on proper management of their budgets and on staying within their credit limits.

In 2011 and 2012, Obama complained repeatedly after he was forced to temporarily curb his spending plans in exchange for Republicans’ agreement to further raise the the executive’s credit limit on the international money market.
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Obama plans further deficit spending of roughly $1 trillion per year, and wants to borrow yet more money from international markets, but he can’t do so without permission from Congress.

Lawmakers’ authority over the nation’s debt is enshrined in Section 8 of the Constitution’s first Article, which says “Congress shall have the power to … borrow money on the credit of the United States.”

The power is implemented via the the Public Debts Acts of 1939 and 1941.<<<

What in the world is this megalomaniac thinking of???? Doesnt anyone with enough brains to pound sand see what he is trying to do????
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 6:07:45 PM

101: " I sure hope that Steve is being sarcastic. "


I don't think so.... Steve is in favor of any policy, law, or program that takes money away from those who earned it and gives it to those who didn't.


mudtoe
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owt
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 5:59:37 PM

NO....next he will be pitching a fit in the floor.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 1:33:45 PM

SemiSteve: "What reckless spending - taking care of the unemployed. Why he should be given 3 more terms for that."

That is a perfect example of how screwed up our country is right now. I sure hope that Steve is being sarcastic.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 6:32:08 PM

jayrad, who was it that declared recently (a little over 4 years ago) that increasing the debt by $4 trillion was irresponsible and unpatriotic"?

Does that make that person a hypocrite?
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 4:20:20 PM

Foot stamps

Food stamps

Postage stamps

Rubber stamps

Is there no end to what keeps increasing these days? :o)
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:29:36 PM

What reckless spending - taking care of the unemployed. Why he should be given 3 more terms for that.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:23:01 PM

Apparently you are not quite familiar with the 27th amendment, it does not address or insulate anyone from any taxes, not even congressman. Am I understanding that your argument is that congressional pay is immune from taxability?

I know that liberals try very hard to have their cake and eat it too, it must be unpleasant when a poorly constructed argument (the constitutionality of selective taxation without basis) comes back to bite you in the butt.

I agree with your previous statement, "Creating a tax is one of congress' enumerated powers. Its not any sort of legal acrobatics. Its simply one of the things that congress is allowed to do." Are you saying that I shouldn't agree with that?
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:04:19 PM

Its like arguing with a brick wall...

You guys seem to think that congress has this magical ability to do what ever it wants regardless of the current standing law. The laws that are written, yes even the affordable care act, are written within the confines of the constitution.

A law altering congressional pay even the tax rate would be subject to the 27th amendment. They could, on a voluntary basis, all agree to return any paychecks to the tresuary after they arrive. But no law could be written to alter the congressional checks for this session. In all honesty this late in the game the checks have already been written and accounted for.

Just because a law is written that you don't agree with doesn't mean its illegal.

[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 12/7/2012 3:08:37 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:00:38 PM

Yeah, not only did congress open a big can of worms creating a tax that forces Americans to purchase a product, but the supreme court has also taken Pandora's box that was pried open by the democrats and propped it wide open with washing their hands of the decision, stating that the American people voted for these clowns and stated that this is the voter's problem, not the constitution's.

Any amendment (including the 27th) simply doesn't hold any strength anymore, sorry.
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 8:43:56 AM

Gotta agree with EZExit on this one... not that Congress would do it.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:38:48 PM

I don't mean to nitpick, but wages would be untouched, they would still receive their wages, but their taxes would be affected...

You said it best, <<<"Creating a tax is one of congress' enumerated powers. Its not any sort of legal acrobatics. Its simply one of the things that congress is allowed to do.">>>
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:34:32 PM

it would still be affecting congressional pay and fall under the perview of the 27th amendment
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:24:28 PM

Set forth it is decreed that any person holding the office of congressman of the United States shall forthwith pay a federal tax equal to fifty percent (50%) of their congressional wage in any tax year that the United States budget is not ratified or exceeds its revenues.

That was easy! :)



[Edited by: EZExit at 12/6/2012 11:29:52 PM EST]
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:51:17 PM

Creating a tax is one of congress' enumerated powers. Its not any sort of legal acrobatics. Its simply one of the things that congress is allowed to do.

What kind of bill could they write to get around an amendment specifically aimed at regulating congressional pay?

[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 12/6/2012 10:53:08 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:48:49 PM

If they can get around the constitution to create a tax to force taxpayers to buy a product like health insurance, they certainly can utilize the same technique to modify their salary structure. No, if congress wanted to modify their salaries, they simply need to pass a bill and sign it into law.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:43:41 PM

27th Amendment -- proposed in 1789, ratified in 1992
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:39:44 PM

27th amendment ...look it up...not they cannot vote for a pay raise for the session they are in....nor can they vote for a pay decrease or pay freeze

Wikipedia - "The 27th amendment prohibits any law that increases or decreases the salary of members of congress from taking effect until the next terms of office for representatives."

they cant just "pass a bill"

[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 12/6/2012 10:40:50 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:21:39 PM

<<<They cannot however alter their pay for the session they are currently in.>>>

Sure they can... If it is proposed in a bill and passed.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 9:20:55 PM

bell -- correct--- that is a law that was written by congress themselves so they dont have to be seen giving themselves pay raises every year. It automatically raises their pay for the next congressional session. They cannot however alter their pay for the session they are currently in.

[Edited by: michaelphoenix2 at 12/6/2012 9:21:57 PM EST]
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 9:15:26 PM

Actually Congress receives pay raises automatically UNLESS they specifically vote to forego it.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 9:03:42 PM

"Isn't debt spending irresponsible and unpatriotic?"

Except for those two wars and Medicare Part D.
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 9:01:51 PM

"Isn't debt spending irresponsible and unpatriotic?"

Ronald Reagan allowed the debt ceiling to be raised 18 times. He agreed to raise taxes 11 times. Was Ronald Reagan "unpatriotic" and "irresponsible"?

[Edited by: jayrad1957 at 12/6/2012 9:02:49 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 8:49:05 PM

I have the answer to fix our debt problem...

We should immediately get a "birth tax" in place, to get the $51,925 for each child born that we are leaving our debt to up front. We charge people to live (hundreds of various taxes), we even charge people to die (death tax), lets get the cash for people to be born!
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 8:49:01 PM

AZmike - "They can't, its against the constitution that congress changes their pay rate during the session that they are currently in.

Its a noble idea... its just illegal"

If your concerned about some things being illegal are you equally concerned about Obama trying to go against the highest law of the land - the constitution? According to the constitution only congress has thge power to "borrow money on the credit of the United States". Yet Obama is rying to usurp this power....

When he was a Senatopr it was a bad thing for the SEnate to borrow more. Now that he is in another office he wants to subvert the Constitution and have unlimited power to borrow and spend as much as he wants. With Dingy Harry letting him spend without a budget and Dingy Harry stopping any effective discussion on a budget the only control at all the rest of Congress has on Obama's out of control spending is the debt limit.

Not only no but HELL NO. I do not want Obama to have the power to spend without constraint and concurrance of the Congress.
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 7:59:47 PM

Senator Obama felt that raising the debt ceiling was the sign of a failed administration. President Obama wants it to be raised to infinity and beyond.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 5:36:56 PM

>>michael, I hate to say this but maybe we need to default.<<

I agree.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 5:29:21 PM

Isn't debt spending irresponsible and unpatriotic?
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KansasGunman
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 5:26:54 PM

Spoiled little brat isn't he...
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 5:05:05 PM

Sorry to shoot down a good idea like that. I just gotta tell people how it is everytime that idea comes up.
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Ladygator2007
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 4:55:40 PM

:)
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 4:33:03 PM

They can't, its against the constitution that congress changes their pay rate during the session that they are currently in.

Its a noble idea... its just illegal
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Ladygator2007
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 4:30:06 PM

michael, I think they should be forced to take a 50% pay cut until the issue is resolved. They are the ones that got us into this mess and it should be them getting us out of it. However, we both know how it will end. Some back room deal will be made that we will never be told about and it will be tax and spend until the end
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:39:36 PM

Unfortunately defaulting would cause much much worse financial repercussions than borrowing more. Yes, its true that our leaders may not take it as seriously as if we were in a complete free fall but at this point the economy cannot take such a body blow to it.
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Ladygator2007
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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:36:49 PM

michael, I hate to say this but maybe we need to default. Maybe then they will take this as serious as it is. BTW Very sorry if my reply came off as a personal attack in any way. I am just a bit tired of that man and his spend spend spend. We can't spend ourselves out of this one.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:34:00 PM

ladygator - the only thing obama is serious about is spending us intot he ground and not being bothered by any rules that he doesnt like. He will 'lead from behind' until we are so far down the pipes that Greece will loan us money.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:30:50 PM

Understand i am not disagreeing with you. I agree that the spending is out of control. I was merely correcting you on the the reason why the credit rating was downgraded. It was not because of how much in debt we are but because of the reluctance of members of congress to prevent us from going into default.
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Ladygator2007
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:28:13 PM

michael.. You can't keep raising the debt ceiling. It is there for a reason. To keep the spending under control. To keep us from getting in too deep. You can't keep borrowing money and giving it away. You can't keep creating new programs when you can't pay for the existing ones. You can't just print more money. Instead of making cuts, obama is "asking" (HA HA) the wealthy to pay more. Doing well should not be a punishable offense. This spend spend spend needs to STOP. If he is so worried about this country let him prove it and stay in D.C. for the holidays. They all need to get serious about getting us out of this mess. They created it and they are the ones that should be fixing it.
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michaelphoenix2
All-Star Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:18:38 PM

ladygator---- actually you have it backwards. If we DON'T raise the limit then the credit rating goes down. The only reason that it went down before was because of the dawdling of congress and the hissy fits of the Tea Party members. The credit agencies said that the rating wouldn't go down if the US increased its debt ceiling limit but the current gridlock and game of chicken that congress was playing with the debt ceiling is what caused the downgrade in credit rating.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:23:21 AM

BGT - that agency already exists - it's the Federal Reserve.

Now I think Obama is a maximum hypocrite on this issue. During his hundred and some days as senator, Obama did get to vote on a debt ceiling limit under George W. Bush. Obama got up and made a speech that he didn't agree with raising the debt ceiling, and that we needed to get our fiscal house in order, rather than charging it to the credit card.

Fast forward to today - OK, so now Obama wants not only to raise the ceiling, but to make it infinity? Huh? OK, President Hypocrite.. so where does it end? And why did you want to "stick it" to Bush, but now you find you cannot live with the same constraint yourself and won't even discuss it?

I agree that Obama was right the FIRST time and Bush was wrong - we should NOT have raised the debt ceiling one red cent. Neither should we do so now. Obama is trying to push the problem down the road, rather than dealing with it as he should. He's the leader of our country, right? So why isn't he leading, and why isn't he NEGOTIATING? Making ultimatums isn't "negotiations". If the Reps believe in controlling the debt ceiling (and I believe they are sincere about doing so), then why isn't Obama working with them? Obama himself believed in it, or is it now OK because he's president and doesn't want to deal with it?
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 9:54:22 AM

I partially agree with Obama: We should not have a Debt Limit.

Where I disagree with him is in eliminating the Debt Limit: my solution it to eliminate the Debt and to set up an agency overseen by Congress to manage the size of the money supply so that the value of the Dollar is stabilized.

[Edited by: BlackGumTree at 12/6/2012 9:55:14 AM EST]
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Ladygator2007
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 6:40:35 AM

If it's raised yet again then our credit rating will be lowered yet again. Does that man not understand that we can't keep spending money we do not have? Stop funding illegals, stop sending money to countries that are trying to kill us. There is no way they should raise the debt ceiling.
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PappaVanTwee
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 5:30:13 AM

>>>
If you don't like the link from the Daily Caller, try the one from TownHall.com.
<<<

That's like frying pan and fire. Not much difference.
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ihuey99
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:21:53 AM

Power to raise the debt ceiling to spend more.... If I recall correctly the Constitution gives the power to deal with this very issue to Congress, not the executive branch. Why give the executive branch excess power to disrupt the balance of power? This is bordering on tyranny.
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:19:40 AM

We have had a national debt since the FDR/Truman term. Now we have reached a point where we have a President who feels that lowering the debt isn't even something to be considered. Every budget he has submitted increase the debt substantially. A deal was made to get the last debt ceiling increase. It was passed by the House and Senate then signed into law by this President. Time came to pay the piper and no one wants to pay up.

"I will cut the deficit by half before the end of my first term." - President Barrack H Obama on February 22, 2009.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:48:07 PM

Paxman,

If you don't like the link from the Daily Caller, try the one from TownHall.com.
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PappaVanTwee
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:30:32 PM

>>>
Paxy you may not like the source - but is the story correct or not?
<<<

Consider the source. It's not even close to correct, and very biased.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:11:01 PM

nstrdnvstr - I would say so -- yes. But will the liberal media say boo about it?

Paxy you may not like the source - but is the story correct or not?
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daylily2009
Champion Author Fayetteville

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 9:32:08 PM

Great
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 9:16:25 PM

flyboy, isn't that being "irresponsible and unpatriotic"?
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:18:54 PM

I have never been much of a conspiracy theorist, but in that movie 2016 that I did watch, collapsing the economy is one of the end games that the movie opines is Obama's grand plan.

Whether or not that is correct, this country is heading down that road at high speed, and many people don't get it. I saw an interview of Charles Rangel earlier this afternoon, and he denies that there is even an issue. He states that the "fiscal cliff" is just a fabrication, and the sun will rise tomorrow just as it did today. He is an example of the obliviousness of members of congress.

In any case, full speed ahead, lets spend more, tax more, and let someone else deal with the stupidity down the road.
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