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Author Topic: 2 out of 3 People favor birth control coverage Back to Topics
YDraigGoch

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Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 8:35:40 PM

The vote is in. This is the cheapest and most effective way to minimize abortions, cut down on medical costs, lower the unwanted children count that causes so much crime and misery, and allow people to control their own lives.

Birth control is definitely cheaper than unplanned births.

"Pay me now, or pay me later" is an old saying that means the costs later will be so much higher than spending a little now. This is a prime example.
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 1:33:36 PM

"I am unaware of any religion that requires access to abortion, so there is no imposition of beliefs.
You totally missed the point."

It looks to me like the point was that it's only a valid consideration when it's endorsed by one or more religious organizations.

Personally, I don't really care what any church or, for that matter, other organizations like the Jaycees, Elks Club, Eagles Club, M.O.O.S.E, etc. may have to say about it.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 8:03:09 PM

This has nothing to do with the pathetic attempt to insure everyone called Obamacare. It has to do with common sense vs religion and partisan ignorance.

It's good business. That is why successful companies insure their employees. This is just part of that. Nothing to do with Obamacare at all.

Geez! Get a GRIP!
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fracknsave
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 5:41:42 PM

>>>Insurance should be based on economic grounds,<<<
and yet, obambicare emerges to undo something you apparently agree with, the economics of pre-existing conditions
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 4:40:46 PM

Insurance should be based on economic grounds, not moral ones. That equates to imposing your views on your employees as a means of obtaining employment.

I do believe we have laws about that now.
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fracknsave
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:28:35 AM

GTH, using the separation of church and state was invoked because, for the libs, it is a 'holy grail' (pun intended) of atheism and ALWAYS the last statement uttered before the conversation is ended, not because I believe in it, but because they do. Assuming their word means anything, we'll hold them to it.
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KansasGunman
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:14:21 AM

I'm completely in favor of birth control and have no issues with anyone choosing to use any of the contraceptives...my problem is with the deadbeats and freeloaders with their hand out expecting them for nothing.

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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 9:13:04 AM

"Separation of church and state" never means "keeping the church free from state interference," it seems.

GTH
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fracknsave
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 11:44:40 PM

Seems like a good separation of 'church and state' right? You guys are for that, I guess, except when you're against it.
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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 11:33:15 PM

For those who are so much against birth control, in the news it said about a company that donated condoms to planned parenthood. 40,000 condoms cost $12,000.

About the same cost as 1 unplanned pregnancy if there are no complications.

To raise an unwanted child to the age of 18 can cost more than $100,000. Going to college can cost many more thousands.

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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 8:26:00 PM

Maybe Catholics in some countries are against birth control. So are most Muslims in the Middle East. So are some Jews in Israel and Russia.

Fine, but we are talking about The United States of America. And here, every poll taken in the last fifteen years shows a constantly increasing majority of Catholics who say they regularly use birth control.

The "Catholic" argument is a straw man issue. Get over it.

Contraception is as much a part of a healthy work force as any other medical process. Fanatics can boo hoo it all they want, but most businesses accept it as good practice. Especially with all the laws on the books about family leave and such. It's just good business.

For people who continually say they are "for" the interests of business, we sure are getting a lot of ignorant grief from some people on the right.

Must be that "Catholic" thing.

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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 1:33:59 PM

gocatgo: "Gth, if you don't believe in abortion Don't Get One. As I said before don't impose your religious beliefs on others."

<<I am unaware of any religion that requires access to abortion, so there is no imposition of beliefs.>> gas_too_high

You totally missed the point.

Gocatgo is not saying that there are any religions that require access to abortion.

But there are several religions that want to impose their beliefs on others to deny access to abortion.

<<Many pro-life people I know are more than willing to spend *their own money* through private charities to help unwed mothers who wish to carry their children rather than abort them, as well as for the poor in general.>>

And almost all of those pro-life people are against welfare and many other kinds of social assistence. The need for unwed mothers does not end with delivery of the baby – it goes on for at least 18 years or more.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 12:53:36 PM

Lets see here two out of three people.

That would be the Dad and Mom voting against the child staying alive huh. Does the child about to be executed have any say in the matter?
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 11:58:22 AM

gocatgo: "Gth, if you don't believe in abortion Don't Get One. As I said before don't impose your religious beliefs on others."

I am unaware of any religion that requires access to abortion, so there is no imposition of beliefs.

And may I assume that you oppose the Obamacare HHS mandate, which requires employers and individuals, regardless of religious objections, to fund insurance covering contraceptives and abortifacients?

"I doubt if there are many right to lifers that want to spend tax money to support poor children. All cons are concerned with is protecting fertilized eggs, at birth the child is just a tax burden."

Many pro-life people I know are more than willing to spend *their own money* through private charities to help unwed mothers who wish to carry their children rather than abort them, as well as for the poor in general.

GTH

[Edited by: gas_too_high at 12/10/2012 12:04:22 PM EST]
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 10:58:11 AM

101, "nor acceptable to Catholics" I agree and they are not forced to take birth control either. I have a problem with anyone imposing their religious beliefs on others. You and many other cons may disagree with that point.

Rumb, I know more than a few Catholics that use birth control too.

Ac-, "wait a cotton pickin minute", the good ol' boys n girls in the South and most everywhere else could not have put it better.

Gth, if you don't believe in abortion Don't Get One. As I said before don't impose your religious beliefs on others.

I doubt if there are many right to lifers that want to spend tax money to support poor children. All cons are concerned with is protecting fertilized eggs, at birth the child is just a tax burden.
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owt
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 5:53:39 PM

If people are really pro-choice they would let our taxes NOT to pay for their abortions.
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 5:21:08 PM

flyboyUT: " I personally dont believe in many forms of so called birth control that in reality are a form of abortifaciant. "

Exactly. This is not just about contraception, of concern just to Catholics, but about abortifacients which kill already conceived human life. that is against the religious beliefs of all Christians.

GTH
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 2:04:32 PM

PopcornPirate said: "Birth Control Does not fix anything. It Inhibits the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Weather by a barrier or tricking the woman's body that it can't get pregnant."

--Now wait a cotton pickin' minute. BCPs have been used therapeutically. They are used by older women (post menopausal) as their hormone replacement therapy to reduce symptoms such as hot flashes, etc. I had a girlfriend years ago who was prescribed them to regulate her cycle, as she had erratic hormones. It also helped with her acne. In fact, I had another girlfriend some years later who had the same two problems (acne and bad cycles). So there is therapeutic uses OTHER than prevention of pregnancy.
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 10:24:36 PM

"to assume all Roman Catholics are totally against birth control because that is the official position of the Church is ludicrous"

Perhaps some on the religious right would consider such Catholics to be CINOs (Catholic In Name Only), much as they might label independent-minded members of the GOP to be RINOs.
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fracknsave
Champion Author Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 5:31:31 PM

9 out of 10 people while dining at the tax table prefer not to pick up the tab, so I guess we should cut spending until tax revenues go up.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 5:19:44 PM

Any Catholic who doesn't wish to use birth control doesn't have to.
I wager there are many Catholics using birth control of various types, to assume all Roman Catholics are totally against birth control because that is the official position of the Church is ludicrous in this day and age, when many Roman Catholics, and members of all religious denominations, are far less tied to the Church than they used to be.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 1:03:42 PM

Not acceptable for Catholics. Catholics are not in favor of birth control in any form.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 7:32:49 PM

9 out of 10 people like receiving gifts.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 4:32:21 PM

Women (married AND single) who don't get pregnant are a much more reliable source of labor than the ones who do get pregnant. If you are talking about putting America first, you had better consider that fact.

62% of married women use birth control. Now, since 32% of married women are post menopausal, I would say it's a good idea to let women have contraceptives.

[Edited by: YDraigGoch at 12/7/2012 4:33:32 PM EST]
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KatmanDo
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 2:47:10 PM

"For me when the choice is helping Americans or subsidizing the defense and wealth of other nations, I say America first."

Those who make their fortunes providing military and other assistance to foreign countries are very likely among those making sizeable political donations. The pols in turn tend to feel "donators first; empty-handed complainers wait in line with everyone else."
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:32:13 AM

Nick, "1 out 15 dentists", too funny.

Mad, "why not free blood pressure medicine". If we have tax giveaways for Big oil making record profits and free money to our enemies around the world why not.

For me when the choice is helping Americans or subsidizing the defense and wealth of other nations, I say America first. All others go to the end of the line.
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KansasGunman
Champion Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 5:25:34 PM

And I can pretty well guess who those two out of three are...
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Ladygator2007
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:32:41 PM

I do not have any problem with the pill being covered. You obtain it by prescription * so prescriptions should be covered by insurance. If you don't want to go on the pill then you can purchase your own OTC form of birth control. The govt/taxpayers should not have to foot the bill. If the battle cry is my body my choice then the one doing the crying should pay for those choices.

* Some doctors will actually give samples to patients that are given to them by the drug reps.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 3:16:46 PM

As far as so many folks wanting free birth control - want to bet you can ask these same folks if they think all health care should be free you will get a similar response..
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maddog57
Champion Author Winston-Salem

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 2:04:24 PM

Why just free birth control, why not free high blood pressure medicines as well?
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 1:56:53 PM

Deleted, sorry.

[Edited by: jayrad1957 at 12/6/2012 1:58:51 PM EST]
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teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 1:39:35 PM

So what is the percentage of people who USE birth control? Wonder if THAT could be a factor in wanting it cheaper or free?

Compare that to say, people who want gas to be cheaper...

[Edited by: teacher_tim at 12/6/2012 1:40:13 PM EST]
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NickHammer
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 12:58:00 PM

4 out of 5 dentists recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum. So, combining this with the topic title, and assuming dentists favor birth control coverage at the same rate as people in general, we get the following:

- 8 out of 15 dentists recommend sugarless gum AND favor birth control coverage
- 4 out of 15 dentists recommend sugarless gum but DO NOT favor birth control coverage
- 2 out of 15 dentists want their patients to chew gum with sugar in it AND favor birth control coverage
- 1 out of 15 dentists want their patients to chew gum with sugar in it and DO NOT favor birth control coverage

In summary, 6.67% of dentists want their patients to get knocked up and have cavities.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 12:41:39 PM

Pop, "see the difference" unwanted pregnancy is a big issue for most women and many men, "see the difference", I doubt it.

Chuck, "personal responsibility" if everyone could afford health care Obamacare and medicare would not be in question but unfortunately everyone is not born with a silver spoon. "Human nature" cost cons the White House.

Cliff, "old dudes", I resemble that remark.
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Cliffisher
Champion Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 12:30:17 PM

The other is a control of human nature and the old dudes need to realize that.
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PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:50:17 AM

"If Viagra is covered, why shouldn't women's birth control be covered? ""

Viagra ( or Ceallis ) is a medication that FIXES an older males problem.

Birth Control Does not fix anything. It Inhibits the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Weather by a barrier or tricking the woman's body that it can't get pregnant.

See the difference?
One is a medication for a problem... The other is a control of human nature.
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cbuck80
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:30:29 AM

It's called personal responsiblity. The Gov't paying for birth control is another area washington sticks their nose where it does not belong.
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gocatgo
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 11:06:34 AM

Most of the "2 out of 3" probably voted for Obama. Cons always seem to insist on imposing their religious beliefs on others sending them into the welcoming arms of the DNC. If you are against birth control pills don't take them but let the rest of America decide for themselves. I will still respect you in the morning.

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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 6, 2012 10:34:25 AM

I can see where some religious groups do not want to offer birth control for reasons of their religion.

This is a place where ObamaCare has managed to fail. We could have used the law to set up insurance exchanges that meet a 50 state guideline, and then allowed competition. That might have worked, as contraception could have been one of the guidelines.

But for those groups that are self-insured, (Say, a Catholic Hospital group, for example) how can you FORCE them to offer BCPs or abortions? They have a religious right, since it is not only an employer, but a religious one at that?
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Teslukbla
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:58:53 PM

2 out of 3 = 47%

Or does it?
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worryfree
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:19:19 PM

So if you want to reduce the number of abortions make birth control readily accessible...if you ain't pregnant you don't need an abortion.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 11:15:58 PM

"And what does an abortion cost today?" Oh not much in some peoples eyes - just the life of a child.
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:28:20 PM

Nothing is free. It's all a matter of what is more expensive.

Birth control pills are pretty cheap compared to the cost of unwanted children. Whether they wind up in orphanages, or criminals on the street taking (or dealing) drugs, stealing to live and get high, no moral compass.
The eventual cost in law enforcement alone is way more than the cost of supplying contraception.

If even one out of ten goes bad, that is an unacceptable cost in money.

And don't even get me started on the cost in human suffering, both the unwanted AND their victims.

And what does an abortion cost today? And what about states that have made abortion almost impossible to get?

What about people who do not want children because they have been diagnosed with genetic disorders? Those children will often wind up on the medical welfare rolls.

These are facts that cannot easily be dismissed (unless you have your head in the sand). These costs are real, and they are with us today. They will certainly get worse.

Birth control, and family planning is a darn sight cheaper.

Pay me now, or pay me later.

[Edited by: YDraigGoch at 12/5/2012 8:30:08 PM EST]
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 4:53:49 PM

"I don't know if that's necessarily a "conflict" but rather a causal relationship--if one is distributed widely, the other will be in higher demand as a result."

I suppose it's good for the bottom line that insurance companies cover both then.
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1OILMAN
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 4:31:20 PM

Nothing ever costs so much as when it is free.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 4:22:34 PM

El_Gato_Negro or whoever you are. They have this strange thing called contentious objector to deal with that in one respect.

The other reason is that defense of the country is one of the few things our founding documents says the Federal Government is supposed to do.

Nowhere can I find anything that says the Feds are supposed to give away or fund Viagra or birth control. Yeah yeah I know someone will try and bring up the 'general welfare' thing ---- so in answer.


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

Then there is this gem also --

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." But from ----- Welfare????
.
>>>Welfare -- welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. [<ME wel faren, to fare well] Source: AHD. ---- Welfare in today's context also means organized efforts on the part of public or private organizations to benefit the poor, or simply public assistance. This is not the meaning of the word as used in the Constitution.<<< Now if all men (meaning people) are created equal and have these rights - you know like life and liberty and stuff --- when are individuals 'created'? Is it at conception or at somewhere around 12 weeks after conception or at 4 months or at roughly 9 months after conception --- when?


[Edited by: flyboyUT at 12/5/2012 4:28:50 PM EST]
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 4:11:34 PM

The word free should be a red flag to anyone. We all know it won't be free.

Just exactly who was represented in this poll, how do they know the people that answered the poll were adults, and how many were under 30 years old?

Why should business be required to provide it free in the first place?
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 3:42:30 PM

"Those two things seem to be in conflict with one another."

I don't know if that's necessarily a "conflict" but rather a causal relationship--if one is distributed widely, the other will be in higher demand as a result.

[Edited by: sgm4law at 12/5/2012 3:43:05 PM EST]
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 3:07:58 PM

Marty, yes they do.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 3:01:51 PM

"If Viagra is covered, why shouldn't women's birth control be covered? "

Those two things seem to be in conflict with one another.
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jayrad1957
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 2:07:05 PM

If Viagra is covered, why shouldn't women's birth control be covered?
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