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Author Topic: Hostess has Vowed to Liquidate if Striking Workers Don't Return to Work Back to Topics
Bell30012

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Atlanta

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Message Posted: Nov 16, 2012 6:00:30 AM

Hostess has said that they will liquidate the company if striking workers do not return to work today. The deadline has passed and the UNION workers did not return to work. Now if the company goes through with its promise, there will be 18,000 workers on unemployment.

The union has told striking workers repeatedly that even if the company liquidates someone would purchase it in bankruptcy and keep it going. It doesn't look like there are any buyers on the horizon.

ABC - Twinkies Maker Hostess Vows to Liquidate
Hostess Strike Information (from Hostess)
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 9:55:58 PM

Looks like the master bakers wont be nion.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 3:46:27 PM

"That being said, I still don't understand the federal government giving special cash handouts to these union employees, especially under the guise of a false premise that these people lost their jobs as a result of global trade. "

Neither do I.
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johnnyg1200
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 1:19:58 PM

I love the part at the bottom of the story posted by EZ.

“As for the industry itself, the American Bakers Association reports that its key concerns aren't imported goods, but soaring energy costs, high grain costs due to a drought (and, no doubt, the Obama administration's inflexible ethanol mandate that has made food grain scarcer) and the threat of environmental regulations that force bakeries, regardless of size, to buy $500,000 catalytic oxidizers.”

Boy them guberment regulation are sure a good thing for the economy.


[Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 3/5/2013 1:20:07 PM EST]
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Mar 5, 2013 12:51:03 PM

I am sure as well that the baker's union gets special treatment and is receiving kickbacks, does anyone know if they paid into the $500K white house country club?
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 10:43:48 PM

EZ: "I still don't understand the federal government giving special cash handouts to these union employees, especially under the guise of a false premise that these people lost their jobs as a result of global trade."


As I said earlier, I'll bet that some of that money ends up back in the union coffers, and from there back into democrat politician pockets. And there's your reason.


mudtoe
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 10:36:32 PM

I agree with the premise of Marty's article, there indeed was blame to go around. That being said, I still don't understand the federal government giving special cash handouts to these union employees, especially under the guise of a false premise that these people lost their jobs as a result of global trade. This is a slap in the face to the 23 million other unemployed citizens that lost their jobs naturally and not as a result of cutting of their noses to spite their face.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 4, 2013 5:08:52 PM

So there's no dispute with the facts then. Good to know.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 11:50:53 PM

jeskibuff - "There were plenty of players in the whole fiasco, but he did play a prominent part in it. Watch this video which gets more pertinent to the issue around the 4:20 mark."

The analysis of black vs whites qualifying for mortgages only holds water if their financials were similar.

Cuomo certainly had a lot to do with it. Making Obama responsible for it, in any way, is more than a stretch. There's nothing in that video about Obama that amounts to more than innuendo.

And all this was just the tip of the iceberg. The problem wasn't really the risky loans to low income families. There weren't enough of those to make much of a difference. The real problem was the greed for the perceived profits from making those risky loans, which caused the whole practice to spread to higher income groups. That was the massive failure that brought the whole house of cards down.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 10:32:27 PM

AF since Marty linked to it I assumed it was written by just another one of them crude folks he likes.
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AFSNCO
Champion Author Montgomery

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 9:53:57 PM

fly, you really have to put a lot of credibility into an article that feels the need to use crude language. Very professionally written and no surprise on who linked the article. Classic....
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 1:02:39 PM

rjhenn said: "He [Obozo] gets some of the blame for an ineffective economic recovery policy. But he didn't create the situation that he was trying to recover from."

There were plenty of players in the whole fiasco, but he did play a prominent part in it. Watch this video which gets more pertinent to the issue around the 4:20 mark.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 12:40:26 PM

flyboy: "Seems strange to know 'Wonder Bread' is gone."


Not to worry. It's very likely that someone will buy the brands and the recipes now that they don't come tethered with union baggage.


mudtoe
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 11:42:13 AM

Hostess products:

Sweet Snacks

Twinkies
CupCakes
Ding Dongs
Ho Hos
Sno Balls
Donettes
Devil Dogs – Drake’s
Funny Bones – Drake’s
Ring Dings – Drake’s
CoffeeCakes – Drake’s
Blueberry Muffins – Drake’s
Yodels – Drake’s
Mini-muffins
Chocodiles
Fruit Pies
Ring Dings
Zingers
Suzy Qs
Zingers
Hostess Pies
Banana Twinkies

Breads

Wonder
Nature’s Pride
Merita
Home Pride
Beefsteak
Butternut
Millbrook
Eddy’s
J.J. Nissen
Sweetheart
Cotton’s Holsum
Bread du Jour

[Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 3/3/2013 11:50:33 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 11:24:39 AM

Seems strange to know 'Wonder Bread' is gone.
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e_jeepin
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 11:23:00 AM

I believe its split evenly between stupid management and Unions -- both wanted to be overpaid in desperate times. I did not know the Gephardt angle which is all so typical!

I understand corporations that are full of weak leaders making bad decisions. The Unions are full of this too. This is why I left the incompetence of corporate America.

The sad forgotten story is that Hostess Brands was diversified in a wide range of products from useless snacks to premium breads. The junk food side was a small part of the business. Krugman fails miserably as a writer to tell the whole story in favor of a "farewell to a junk food company that deserves to close".

What a dope -- and an example of how the media fails to do its job every day. If they put the screws to everyone equally, we would see change!

The truth is, Hostess deserved to go out of business -- and the junk food product offerings had little to do with it. The Media painted a successful end of a "junk food" company.

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 11:14:14 AM

Yep - one has to give Marty his due. The article did a fairly good job of identifying the real problems - in it's own crude way.

Management was poor at best and the unions refused to help - in fact they harmed the failed efforts.

Now if the union was as smart as people say they are - why didnt they buy out the company and install their own managers and decision makers?

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 3/3/2013 11:17:28 AM EST]
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 10:03:50 AM

Yes, there's plenty of blame to spread around.
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rwsb30
All-Star Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 3:32:21 AM

Be still my heart !
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2013 3:27:13 AM

Good article, Marty.
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MiddletownMarty
Champion Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 5:58:54 PM

Hostess Bankruptcy: The Hidden Menace That Killed the Twinkie


Plenty enough blame to spread around... liberally.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 12:02:38 PM

So they deliberately torpedoed the negotiations so that they could get paid for not working for two years. Even though the article didn't mention this I'm going to bet that somehow union dues are being paid for those two years as well.


mudtoe
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airfresh
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 11:59:41 AM

More coal for tax payers evidently EZ.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Mar 2, 2013 11:53:55 AM

Don't you worry, union employees. Santa has something in his sack for you too!

Bankrupting Hostess, Union Workers Rake In The Federal Dough



[Edited by: EZExit at 3/2/2013 11:56:39 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 2:50:49 AM

nstrdnvstr - "And this is due to what? A failed Obama economic policy?"

He gets some of the blame for an ineffective economic recovery policy. But he didn't create the situation that he was trying to recover from.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 2:50:07 AM

nstrdnvstr - "You are mistaken, what delayed the economic recovery was the attack on 9/11."

9/11 was a blip on the economy. The real effects came from slashing government revenues and promising future tax cuts.

"Not true, the "program" under the Bush administration traced the guns and had arrests, the "program" under the Obama administration traced NO guns and had no arrests."

Not quite true.

"By early 2009, Project Gunrunner had resulted in approximately 650 cases by ATF, in which more than 1,400 defendants were referred for prosecution in federal and state courts and more than 12,000 firearms were involved."

And Gunrunner itself did not involve gunwalking.

"Under the previous Operation Wide Receiver, there had been a formal ATF contract with the cooperating gun dealer and efforts were made to involve the ATF Mexico City Office (MCO) and Mexican law enforcement.

In contrast to Gunrunner, Wide Receiver (2006-2008) was an almost complete failure. Most of the guns involved made it into Mexico, Communication with Mexican authorities was haphazard, at best. And the whole thing was so poorly managed that the US attorneys didn't want to bring any of the perps to trial. No indictments were brought until 2010.

"Under Operation Fast and Furious, at Newell's insistence the cooperating gun dealers did not have contracts with ATF, and MCO and Mexican police were left in the dark."

Funny, Newell was apparently the driving force behind both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious. Rather than being an operation by the Obama Administration, Fast and Furious appears to have been almost a rogue operation by the Phoenix ATF and U.S. Attorney’s offices.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 2, 2013 10:32:26 AM

rjhenn, "nstrdnvstr - "So you are not allowed to look for a different job "in this economy"?"

Sure, you can look. The odds of finding something 'better' aren't particularly good for most people"

And this is due to what? A failed Obama economic policy?
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 2, 2013 10:29:47 AM

rjhenn, "What were the Bush tax cuts successful at, besides slashing government revenues and delaying any economic recovery? And helping to precipitate the current crisis?"

You are mistaken, what delayed the economic recovery was the attack on 9/11.

""'Fast & Furious' - the guns that were only supposed to kill Mexicans...OOPS!"

Funny, Fast & Furious was a continuation of programs started under the Bush admin. There's no indication that it was any kind of "methodology implemented by liberals.""

Not true, the "program" under the Bush administration traced the guns and had arrests, the "program" under the Obama administration traced NO guns and had no arrests.

By early 2009, Project Gunrunner had resulted in approximately 650 cases by ATF, in which more than 1,400 defendants were referred for prosecution in federal and state courts and more than 12,000 firearms were involved.

Under the previous Operation Wide Receiver, there had been a formal ATF contract with the cooperating gun dealer and efforts were made to involve the ATF Mexico City Office (MCO) and Mexican law enforcement. Under Operation Fast and Furious, at Newell's insistence the cooperating gun dealers did not have contracts with ATF, and MCO and Mexican police were left in the dark.

The dealers involved became concerned as months went by and the same individuals they reported to ATF as suspected straw purchasers returned and repeatedly bought identical weapons. As they later told the DOJ OIG, their previous experience was that after they reported a suspected straw to ATF, they did not see the straw again unless subpoenaed to testify against the straw at trial.[24] One cooperating dealer expressed his concerns in a series of emails in April and June 2010 to GS David Voth, who assured the dealer that ATF was monitoring the suspects using a variety of techniques that he could not discuss in detail.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 2, 2013 3:47:28 AM

jeskibuff - "There are countless examples of where methodology implemented by right-wingers has been successful. Two examples that come to mind are the Bush tax cuts and the Iraqi surge. Both of those proved successful, to the consternation of liberals who were adamant that both would be failures."

What were the Bush tax cuts successful at, besides slashing government revenues and delaying any economic recovery? And helping to precipitate the current crisis?

And there's widespread disagreement on the actual effects of the surge.

"Then we have the countless examples of methodology implemented by liberals."

There are countless examples of methodologies implemented by both sides that were complete disasters, if your eyes are open.

"'Fast & Furious' - the guns that were only supposed to kill Mexicans...OOPS!"

Funny, Fast & Furious was a continuation of programs started under the Bush admin. There's no indication that it was any kind of "methodology implemented by liberals."

"'Solyndra,A123,Abound,Beacon Power' - billions down the 'green' drain"

A fraction of the total funds in the associated programs. Also, a blip on all the money wasted by both sides on pork over the years.

"'Community Reinvestment Act' - way to crash the system, Dumbocrats!"

Those acts go all the way back to 1977. And, again, the CRA was the trigger, not the cause.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 7:49:56 PM

rjhenn said: "the right has no methodology, except to give the rich more."

Only in your fertile imagination.

There are countless examples of where methodology implemented by right-wingers has been successful. Two examples that come to mind are the Bush tax cuts and the Iraqi surge. Both of those proved successful, to the consternation of liberals who were adamant that both would be failures.

Then we have the countless examples of methodology implemented by liberals.

"The Porkulus" - engineered by Obozo to keep unemployment under 8%
"Cash for Clunkers" - succeeded only in moving sales from one month to another
"Recovery Summer" - the summer that saw no recovery
"Fast & Furious" - the guns that were only supposed to kill Mexicans...OOPS!
"Solyndra,A123,Abound,Beacon Power" - billions down the "green" drain
"Community Reinvestment Act" - way to crash the system, Dumbocrats!
QE1, QE2, QE3...eventually all this money has to stimulate SOMETHING, doesn't it?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 3:38:34 AM

nstrdnvstr - "So you are not allowed to look for a different job "in this economy"?"

Sure, you can look. The odds of finding something 'better' aren't particularly good for most people.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 3:36:58 AM

noseatbelt - "who want's to make the government the center of everyones life? Answer, obama, and his fellow democrats."

Which you believe with no actual evidence at all.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 1, 2013 3:36:17 AM

jeskibuff - "And the methodology that the left uses to attain that goal has been proven time and time again to be a failure."

And the right has no methodology, except to give the rich more.

"The left's attempt to grab the wealthy's money by excessive taxation is evident in things like Ted Kennedy's Luxury Tax - a superb example of failed leftist ideology. I too believe that execs of major companies are paid far above their value - I just believe that the solutions offered by the lefties are simplistic, ineffectual and well...just plain idiotic!"

There's a lot of "simplistic, ineffectual and well...just plain idiotic!" going around.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 5:15:36 PM

rhhenn, "nstrdnvstr - "You don't have a choice where to work?"

Generally, no. Most people have to take what they can get, especially in an economy like this.

Which might be why neither party is really doing anything about jobs."

So you are not allowed to look for a different job "in this economy"?

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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 4:21:35 PM

who want's to make the government the center of everyones life? Answer, obama, and his fellow democrats.
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jeskibuff
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 7:26:43 AM

rjhenn said: " the whole idea is to get those who get an ever increasing portion of both income and wealth in this country to pay for an ever increasing portion of the government"

And the methodology that the left uses to attain that goal has been proven time and time again to be a failure. The left's attempt to grab the wealthy's money by excessive taxation is evident in things like Ted Kennedy's Luxury Tax - a superb example of failed leftist ideology. I too believe that execs of major companies are paid far above their value - I just believe that the solutions offered by the lefties are simplistic, ineffectual and well...just plain idiotic!
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 1:28:39 AM

EZExit - "If this is truly your view of the American people years ago, it would explain quite a bit of your viewpoint that a government "for the people, by the people, of the people" is antiquated, and now being converted into a government of "the government versus the people". Capitalists seeking to increase their revenues are seen today as "greedy slobs", while union members seeking exactly the same thing are seen as "struggling to survive"."

So, basically, your only argument consists of projecting your delusions on others.

"So what is a person at a job worth? It used to be what the market would bear, as well as what you contribute to your employer. Unions see to it that what you can contribute to the company means nothing, nor does market conditions. Today, it is what can you get away with taking from your employer."

In today's economy, for most people, it's what your employer is willing to pay you, take it or leave it. Just like it was before unions. But you celebrate employers who pay as little as they can get away with.

"You're flat out wrong, Americans used to build the highest quality products, we were the leaders in the world for innovation, and worked hard. Now we are just people surviving, mediocrity is now the norm, others are responsible for your success or failure, and now other countries own us figuratively and literally."

That would be post-WWII America, the Golden Age of America. Unions, and the government, were largely responsible for that. People worked hard, and got paid well. The government, mostly through the GI Bill, encouraged education.

But both unions and the government quit working for the economy and the country. Everything became "me, me, me" and "profit above all else".
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 1:20:51 AM

nstrdnvstr - "You don't have a choice where to work?"

Generally, no. Most people have to take what they can get, especially in an economy like this.

Which might be why neither party is really doing anything about jobs.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 1:20:30 AM

EZExit - "It has to do with a government "of the people, by the people, for the people" becoming the government of "the government versus the people"."

The only ones claiming it's "the government versus the people" are those trying to protect the rich from having to pay those whose work they sponge off of a fair wage.

"Now your statement of deductions being social engineering by the government is spot on, so where are you when people attack successful people that take these "deductions"? A flat tax would be a solution for this, it would make everyone "pay their fair share" while significantly trimming the costs of running a monstrosity such as the IRS."

Simplicity is good. However, a flat tax would have to be carefully structured, otherwise it would just be a way to shift even more wealth to the top 1%.

"That however would be a "no-go", as it would reduce the size of government, which runs counter to the work liberals are striving for, to make the government the center of everyone's life and make the people dependent on it for every need and desire."

How would a flat tax reduce the size of government?

And, really, who wants "to make the government the center of everyone's life and make the people dependent on it for every need and desire"? That's delusional.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 1:18:59 AM

mudtoe - "Absolutely correct! The whole idea is to justify forcing an ever shrinking percentage of the population to pay for an ever increasing percentage of government."

Actually, the whole idea is to get those who get an ever increasing portion of both income and wealth in this country to pay for an ever increasing portion of the government, to make up, just a bit, for the ever shrinking portion the rest of us are getting.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 3:30:03 PM

rjhenn: <<<"The true "old American ethic" is "work hard and don't complain about not getting paid what you're worth".">>>

**************

If this is truly your view of the American people years ago, it would explain quite a bit of your viewpoint that a government "for the people, by the people, of the people" is antiquated, and now being converted into a government of "the government versus the people". Capitalists seeking to increase their revenues are seen today as "greedy slobs", while union members seeking exactly the same thing are seen as "struggling to survive".

So what is a person at a job worth? It used to be what the market would bear, as well as what you contribute to your employer. Unions see to it that what you can contribute to the company means nothing, nor does market conditions. Today, it is what can you get away with taking from your employer.

You're flat out wrong, Americans used to build the highest quality products, we were the leaders in the world for innovation, and worked hard. Now we are just people surviving, mediocrity is now the norm, others are responsible for your success or failure, and now other countries own us figuratively and literally.
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nstrdnvstr
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 3:24:03 PM

rjhenn, "nstrdnvstr - "Don't those "others" get a paycheck? They agreed to their pay rate, didn't they?"

How many of them really had a choice?"

You don't have a choice where to work?

I thought slavery was outlawed? Where is this slavery taking place? You better call the authorities about this slavery!
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 3:00:58 PM

rjhenn: <<<"First off, what does this have to do with "what the framers of the constitution envisioned"? Secondly, what else would you consider deductions that are little more than social engineering by government?"

*********

It has to do with a government "of the people, by the people, for the people" becoming the government of "the government versus the people". Now your statement of deductions being social engineering by the government is spot on, so where are you when people attack successful people that take these "deductions"? A flat tax would be a solution for this, it would make everyone "pay their fair share" while significantly trimming the costs of running a monstrosity such as the IRS. That however would be a "no-go", as it would reduce the size of government, which runs counter to the work liberals are striving for, to make the government the center of everyone's life and make the people dependent on it for every need and desire.
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Pard
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 2:47:39 PM

Succinctly put, mudtoe.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 1:21:25 PM

EZ: "I have to agree with the others, rj, your argument that your income your entitled to keep is a gift from the government is not what the framers of the constitution envisioned, it is what the democrats are trying so desperately to program into US citizens. "


Absolutely correct! The whole idea is to justify forcing an ever shrinking percentage of the population to pay for an ever increasing percentage of government. The left's rhetoric: "You didn't build that!" "You didn't earn that!", "You don't deserve that!", and finally "We are taking that, because it was never yours!". That's what this is all about.


mudtoe
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mexicomaria
Champion Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 1:10:14 PM

rj...are you standing on that branch you are sawing on. What if everyone who is physically do some work for their paycheck. One thing I like here in Minnesota...or at least my county...if you are doing time in prison, you are working. They clean the porta Johns, mow, and pick up garbage at all public lakes accesses... What would be wrong with all who get a govt hand out doing something for that money.

One more thing...the Federal govt uses those on unemployment to plant trees in Minnesota.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 10:31:11 AM

EZExit - "Yeah, in the 1800's before labor laws and OSHA were established... now it is simply an arm of the democratic party that works on two fronts, first to get democratic politicians elected to office, and second, to increase manipulation of their respective employers, and suck them dry of every penny that they can get away with, without killing them off."

I will agree that unions aren't doing the job they're supposed to be doing.

"I have to agree with the others, rj, your argument that your income your entitled to keep is a gift from the government is not what the framers of the constitution envisioned, it is what the democrats are trying so desperately to program into US citizens."

First off, what does this have to do with "what the framers of the constitution envisioned"? Secondly, what else would you consider deductions that are little more than social engineering by government?

"There are those of us that will not accept this new vision, but believe in the old American ethic of hard work and self sufficiency."

The true "old American ethic" is "work hard and don't complain about not getting paid what you're worth".
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 10:27:03 AM

101Speedster - "Who are the ones that are investing their money and risking the loss of it?"

That's usually the wannabe rich.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 2:12:48 AM

rjhenn: <<<"That is one of the reasons unions started, after all. ">>>

**********

Yeah, in the 1800's before labor laws and OSHA were established... now it is simply an arm of the democratic party that works on two fronts, first to get democratic politicians elected to office, and second, to increase manipulation of their respective employers, and suck them dry of every penny that they can get away with, without killing them off. This is where the baker's union blew it in this case.

Union members make about 30% more than their non-union counterparts, and subsequently, their companies are often either priced out of competitiveness, or forced to outsource a least a portion of their operation to compensate.

I have to agree with the others, rj, your argument that your income your entitled to keep is a gift from the government is not what the framers of the constitution envisioned, it is what the democrats are trying so desperately to program into US citizens. There are those of us that will not accept this new vision, but believe in the old American ethic of hard work and self sufficiency.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 1:58:53 AM

>>rjhenn, "Actually, many of the real takers are "the rich", who often profit from the hard work of others..."<<

Who are the ones that are investing their money and risking the loss of it?
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 1:38:46 AM

nstrdnvstr - "Don't those "others" get a paycheck? They agreed to their pay rate, didn't they?"

How many of them really had a choice?

Particularly in this economy.

That is one of the reasons unions started, after all.
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