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Author Topic: Liberals love capitalism. Why do the Conservatives think we do not? Back to Topics
btc1

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Lexington

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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2012 9:51:28 AM

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are the epitome of capitalism. They are both liberals.

Liberals encourage fairness. Liberals encourage public participation. And liberals appreciate a government that is there when it is needed. To help the poor, to provide infrastructure, to benefit all.

Conservatives seem to think this is polar opposite to their needs and concerns.

Capitalism is what got us here. It is what will continue to move us. It sometimes does need regulation and an insistence to participate with the rest of us.

We appreciate the Free Enterprise system. Where do the conservatives get that we want to destroy our system of economy?
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Happyherman
Champion Author Calgary

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 3:44:24 PM

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

Winston Churchill

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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 3:22:57 PM

"The average pay for working people has shrunk by $3700 a year since 2000. The average wealthy person has seen more that a 300% increase in wealth.

The only possible end to this type of trend is certainly not capitalism. It will be a few people owning everything, and the rest having nothing. The system is so rigged in their favor that the rest of us have less and less of a say every year. Throw in a few rounds of "moral" issues, and we will be so busy fighting each other that we will not see what is really going on."

--We are the frogs boiling slowly in the pot while the heat is gradually cranked up. The greedy ones in the 1% are cranking the heat.

Ribbet.
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 8:35:37 PM

The average pay for working people has shrunk by $3700 a year since 2000. The average wealthy person has seen more that a 300% increase in wealth.

-------

is that like a prior statement of:

------------------

Unfair? You mean like me paying out about 30% in taxes, and billionaires paying 16% taxes? That sort of unfair?

-

seeing what you posted earlier on a thread of your personal health expenses, losing your home, etc., I'd have to say that I doubt that you pay 30% in Federal taxes - it'd probably be more like 0% to 10% with all the deductions you should have had, are you really sure you pay 30% in fed taxes? If so, I'd have to say you're doing fairly well in/on the taxable amount figure then.
-

Here are the 2012 Federal tax brackets:

Tax Bracket Married Filing Jointly / Single
10% Bracket $0 – $17,400 / $0 – $8,700
15% Bracket $17,400 – $70,700 / $8,700 – $35,350
25% Bracket $70,700 – $142,700 / $35,350 – $85,650
28% Bracket $142,700 – $217,450 / $85,650 – $178,650
33% Bracket $217,450 – $388,350 / $178,650 – $388,350
35% Bracket Over $388,350 / Over $388,350 -----------------------

$3700 and 300% huh?

30% taxes huh?
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taximan007
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 7:52:05 PM

Liberals love, worship and admire liberal capitalists. Hollywood left prime example.

Yet if you're a conservative capitalist then you're "selfish and greedy".
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 5:25:23 PM

we will be so busy, fighting each other, that we will not see what is really going on. Fairly accurate description, of what obama is doing to the country, with his class warfare, wealth envy agenda.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 5:19:30 PM

tg: "Our president is our president and it is time to gather together not fall apart or our country will."


It's going to fall apart no matter what because it's obvious that we have no intention of controlling spending and living within our means. We can't even agree to make infinitesimal cuts in the rate of the growth of spending, let alone entertain the thought of actual spending cuts. The only question left to answer is how long we can continue to borrow money so that we can keep the party going a little longer.

Perhaps we here are engaging in a virtual fistfight on the deck of the Titanic; but the bottom line is that our course is set, the iceberg is dead ahead, and Captain Obama has the wheel locked to our current course and the throttle jammed at flank speed. Whatever we on the deck say or do will no longer affect the outcome.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/25/2013 5:20:37 PM EST]
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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 5:10:55 PM

The average pay for working people has shrunk by $3700 a year since 2000. The average wealthy person has seen more that a 300% increase in wealth.

The only possible end to this type of trend is certainly not capitalism. It will be a few people owning everything, and the rest having nothing. The system is so rigged in their favor that the rest of us have less and less of a say every year. Throw in a few rounds of "moral" issues, and we will be so busy fighting each other that we will not see what is really going on.

Yet conservatives valiantly defend this system because they believe it is capitalism. They honestly don't know the difference. They are afraid that we will fall into some sort of communist quagmire if we deviate from this course, even a little bit. So they fight for what they believe is right. For capitalism.

The trouble is, that is NOT capitalism. That is feudalism.
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FluffyDogAttack
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 4:35:55 PM

Liberals are the smartest people around. Just ask them, they'll tell you.
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noseatbelt
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 4:31:20 PM

liberals, are smart enough to realize they are no better then conservatives. ROFLOL Are you for real, do you really listen to what obama and friends say about conservative?
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jdhelm
Champion Author Iowa

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 4:22:33 PM

well, take a look at these obama numbers
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trugasCA
Champion Author California

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 4:08:01 PM

Never saw so many complainers in my life as since l joined this GB site. The majority rules so get over it . Our president is our president and it is time to gather together not fall apart or our country will. Stop picking on every little slight to back up your negative beliefs. Start thinking of a positive action for the mutual good of these united states. We are still the best and we will come out of it like we did in the end of the 80's ...when we were worse off than now. We can do it. Our leaders are leaders put there by US. But it is up to us to do the work. This polarization is getting us no where. Don't everyone jump on me at once. l took the liberal test and was more conservative in my financial.

[Edited by: trugasCA at 1/25/2013 4:12:54 PM EST]
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 9:55:32 AM

Never listen to what a liberal says; always watch what they do. There you will find the answer as to their supposed "love" of capitalism.


mudtoe
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 8:50:28 AM

"In the end, collectivism and statism crush the individual and have the potential for destroying free societies along with it."

--Taking something to the extreme often has extreme consequences. But who has suggested that we have to do that? Why can't we have a mixture of capitalism with government regulation in order to moderate the wild market swings? Extremists and alarmists will call that socialism. But their fears run away with them. Realists recognize it for the mixture of aspects that it actually is; and leave it at that.

When we arrive at a system that works there is no need to go 'to the end' with extremism.

Such exaggerations are nothing but what misplaced fears become "in the end."
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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 8:20:48 AM

Refusal to cooperate and compromise, refusal to pay sufficient taxes to allow a government to do the things that need to be done, and abandonment of the lowest levels of society all have the potential for destroying free societies too.
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Guitar_Man
Champion Author Colorado Springs

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 1:26:48 AM

Obama promoted the "collectivism" and "statism" concept in his inaugural speech...maybe btc1 and other liberals here need get educated on just what that entails.

In the end, collectivism and statism crush the individual and have the potential for destroying free societies along with it.

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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2013 12:35:03 AM

Good idea AC-302. Then we could have crashes that would make the Great Depression look like a tiny downturn in the market.

Do you think that conservatives are anti-freedom because they like having stricter laws?
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 10:37:40 PM

Keynes was a capitalist. He recognized that capitalism was a good thing; but also noticed that it had a bad habit of having a repeating cycle of crashes which inflicted great damage upon society. These crashes threatened to sour general acceptance of capitalism. This might turn people off and make them want marxism. He recognized the flaw and proposed a way to minimize the damage: Government regulation. This was adopted by most capitalist governments in the 1930's and helped them to recover from great debts incurred during the war. Keynes was universally heralded as a brilliant economist by the time of his death in 1946.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 9:52:20 PM

You know, if you liberals like capitalism so much, then why not unfetter it from foolish regulations? Let the true free market work like it is supposed to.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2013 2:43:32 PM

That's true daylilly. And neither are conservatives better than liberals.

But the big difference is that liberals are smart enough to realize that they're no better than conservatives, while conservatives cling to a fantasy that they are better than liberals.
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daylily2009
Champion Author Fayetteville

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 8:55:37 PM

liberals are no better than conservatives
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 6:22:41 PM

SS: "You guys who want to group all liberals together are doing yourselves a disfavor. "


Hypocrisy is the tie that binds.....


mudtoe
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 5:47:51 PM

You guys who want to group all liberals together are doing yourselves a disfavor.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2013 5:46:57 PM

"I take offense to your saying that the Republicans are 100% "IGMTHWY". IN fact, there are plenty of Dems that have that attitude, but you are too blinded by your ideology to see that, or at least, to admit that."

--Very vivid imagination. Very amusing the way you make things up you claim I said. Only problem is I didn't say it. Baffling. I say one thing and you take it and exaggerate it and then react to the exaggeration.

Ya know what? I agree that there are Dems who have the IGMTHWY attitude. If Buffett and Gore are tax cheats I'm not going to defend them on that. I zeroed in on Romney because we were on opposing campaigns. Doing so seems pretty darned American to me.

***

First I've seen that flourescent bulbs can be harmful. Thanks for posting that. So wouldn't flourescent tubes have the same effect? And if that is true we are deep do-do. virtually very large building around has them. I am in the process of switching all my home bulbs to LED anyway. Greater savings and smaller carbon footprint.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 6:17:07 PM

BGT said: "From the way Liberals talk and act. Liberals say one thing and then act differently. Should we trust their words more that their actions?"

--I agree. If you're going to talk the talk, you had better be able to walk the walk, as it were.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 11:33:42 AM

Not to mention what happens if you drop one and it breaks on your floor. I'm sure our friends on the left will now say that a little mercury never hurt anyone, as long as it's being ingested to save the planet.


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/6/2013 11:34:34 AM EST]
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Guitar_Man
Champion Author Colorado Springs

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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 6:01:54 AM

SS: "I find it amazing that anyone has to argue that a nation filled with smart healthy compassionate people using clean sustainable energy is not destined to prosper."

Are you talking about the mandatory "clean" light bulbs the Obama administration is forcing us to buy by banning the others? You mean, the SAME ones that are showing to cause cancer, now?

Researchers Find Harmful Effects from CFL Bulbs
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 11:04:08 PM

bgt: " Should we trust their words more that their actions? "


Liberalcrits.....


mudtoe
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BlackGumTree
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 7:52:51 PM

"Liberals love capitalism. Why do the Conservatives think we do not?"

From the way Liberals talk and act. Liberals say one thing and then act differently. Should we trust their words more that their actions?
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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 2:12:22 PM

Because it plays good to the poorly educated masses, who are easily fooled by fast talkers. It plays good to the religious, who follow whatever their shepherds say. And it plays good to the rich, who are the ones who benefit from the conservative policies (the middle class does not and the poor get shafted).
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 12:38:50 PM

SemiSteve obsessed: "Buffett Buffett Buffett! What is this obsession with Buffett? He's one man. He doesn't represent liberals."

--Steve, uhh.. you brought him up first. What is YOUR obsession with Warren Buffet? Me, well, you brought him up, so I'm pointing out his hypocrisy. Do you agree that he at least APPEARS to be an out of touch hypocrite vis a vis taxation?

And again, I have no problem with Sandy relief. The problem I have is that 50% of the bill was going to relief, and 50% was going to pork on top of more pork. Hey, Steve - News Flash! We're broke as a nation, and we can't seem to find ways of cutting any spending at all. Nobody wants to damage our fellow Americans -neither Dems nor Reps, and I take offense to your saying that the Republicans are 100% "IGMTHWY". IN fact, there are plenty of Dems that have that attitude, but you are too blinded by your ideology to see that, or at least, to admit that.

And it seems like you defend Buffet and Gore, but you trash Romney. This, even though Mitt donates more in charity than Gore does.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 5, 2013 12:23:56 AM

EZ: "Obviously, each liberal has thus a differing viewpoint of what a "fair share" is, which leads to their inability for them to be able to quantify what exactly a "fair share" indeed is."


So the definition of fair share for oneself is different than the definition of fair share for someone else. You are right though, the word hypocrite is a far more succinct way of putting it than that whole sentence. I still like liberalcrit though :)


mudtoe



mudtoe
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 11:39:28 PM

Mud, you have to realize that all of these liberals really do feel that anyone who might be living comfortably should substantially contribute to all of society, while each of them feels that it is the duty of people in a better situation than themselves. Obviously, each liberal has thus a differing viewpoint of what a "fair share" is, which leads to their inability for them to be able to quantify what exactly a "fair share" indeed is.

Buffet donates generously to charities, and is a liberal thinker, even though he does everything in his power to avoid tax liability. He's OK.

However, someone like Romney that generously donates to charities, is a conservative thinker, even though he does everything in his power to avoid tax liability. He's a tax cheat.

Hypocrisy still abounds these boards.
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MahopacJack
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 10:27:09 PM

SemiSteve, >>And I will have my say.

And I say help those who need it. I say stop spending on expensive needless weapons and imperialism. Education. Energy. Health Care. Help for the needy. Infrastructure. Those are the things to spend on. Things that will help grow our society. Things that will contribute to the General Welfare.<<
***
And you can not only have your say but you also get a chance to back up what you profess with a donation for all those UNCONSTITUTIONAL things you want others to foot the bill for. Congress is simply NOT AUTHORIZED TO TAKE MONEY FROM THE PUBLIC AND GIVE TO SELECT INDIVIDUALS. Stop trying to change to world to what you believe it should be by taking away from others. Start a business and then donate a portion or all of your profits to those you see fit. Others have actually done this. Why don't you do it instead of lecturing others on who and what they should do and believe?

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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 9:30:57 PM

Wow, did I hit a nerve here! I haven't seen SS this angry and lathered up since he slipped and admitted that inheritance taxes didn't count as taxes in his mind because the person is already dead and thus unable to experience first hand the pain of their assets being confiscated.

Maybe we need a new term here: "Liberalcrit". A liberalcrit is defined as person with assets who publicly espouses the liberal philosophy while privately seeking to protect their own assets from the consequences of the policies they publicly support. Where found: everywhere liberals with assets are found, with high concentrations on the left coasts. Frequency: Ubiquitous


mudtoe

[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/4/2013 9:41:01 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 7:30:19 PM

"You know it, I know it, and all the readers here know it."

--Ah, no we don't.

But you think so. And there you go again. Whenever you come out with these conspiracy theories and liberal generalizations I am reminded of that commercial on TV. Where's the beef? Saying things that you can't possibly back up does not make them true. You're making assumptions that logic can't cash.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 6:13:21 PM

Say what you want SS, but at every economic level of liberaldom, with the ironic exception of those at the bottom who sponge 100% off of everyone else (since they never pay any taxes and have no money or assets of their own to take care of, they can't be hypocrites, so I may have to qualify my statement to include only liberals who have assets or money of their own, how strange is that?...), the rest talk the talk about sharing, equality, everyone's fair shares, saving the planet, and the whole nine yards, but in their personal lives they do almost exactly what a conservative would do regarding their money and their convenience and comfort. You know it, I know it, and all the readers here know it. There are just too many glaring public examples of this behavior everywhere, both in the media and in all of our personal experiences, for you to try to paint it otherwise, try as you might.


mudtoe


[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/4/2013 6:21:48 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 5:40:22 PM

To mudtoe: A few examples do not equal "every liberal".

Even if all your examples are true it does not make your statement about 'every liberal' true. So you are going on false assumptions. You've got yourself fooled.

To all: It is pretty hard to unfool someone who has fooled himself!

To mudtoe: But I will continue to dispute your wild over-encompassing broad brush statements.

Every time you make them.

You can fool yourself; but fooling others is a different story.

To all: I think we can now see the answer to the OP question:

"Liberals love capitalism. Why do the Conservatives think we do not?"

The reason is because when people fool themselves it is nearly impossible to unfool them. That is why so many conservatives think liberals do not love capitalism.

To mudtoe: Hey, you gave some examples of some pretty rich liberals. I bet they love capitalism. They wouldn't be rich if they didn't!

Ha Haaaa!

Fool your way around that one. You can't. Because the idea that liberals don't love capitalism is simply another Conservative Myth that has just been BUSTED.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 4:58:23 PM

SS: "You can't judge all liberals by the actions of one man."


How about millions? Everyone from all the union households that shop at Walmart instead of at the higher priced union grocery store while at the same time reviling it for not employing union labor, to the Hollywood types that scream about saving the planet while living in palatial estates that use megawatts of electricity and jetting around the world on private jets filling the air with CO2, to the business tycoons like Soros and Buffett who rail that taxes need to be higher, while doing everything in their power to pay as little as they can. Your buddy Al Sex Poodle Gore just the other day made sure to close on the sale of his TV network prior to Jan 1st, so that he didn't have the pay the higher taxes he wants on everyone else.

Do as I say, not as I do. It's the liberal motto.


mudtoe
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 12:52:17 PM

Buffett Buffett Buffett! What is this obsession with Buffett? He's one man. He doesn't represent liberals.

You can't judge all liberals by the actions of one man.

You said 'Buffet is like every other liberal in that taxes are for other people to pay, not themselves.' EVERY OTHER LIBERAL??? What an absurdly over-reaching cracked crock of a statement!!! I showed how that is wrong. WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

I am liberal; I pay taxes; so you are WRONG!

Pants on fire wrong.

If you can't get past these moronic stereotypes you will never have a comprehensive understanding of how things work.

ANYBODY who thinks "All liberals are _______" (fill anything in there) is wrong, plateaued, and will never be able to move past this mental stumbling block. That is as far as you can get. Stuck. Stuck by a wrong assumption. All else will be clouded by it. Inability to comprehend reality. Arguments based on false assumptions.

It's like you are trying to build a wall but some of the bricks are irregular shape. Not a good foundation. You can only get so high and then it all comes tumbling down. Better not stand too close. It will be a mess.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 12:39:18 PM

"I'm not sure I've ever met a liberal that really walks the walk, especially when it comes to their own money. "

--It is true that we have not met. But you are talking to one. I pay taxes. I am not in that '47%' that you call takers. When I champion the government spending money for some worthy cause (such as Hurricane Sandy relief) it is MY money getting spent.

I pay. I pay. I pay.

And I will have my say.

And I say help those who need it. I say stop spending on expensive needless weapons and imperialism. Education. Energy. Health Care. Help for the needy. Infrastructure. Those are the things to spend on. Things that will help grow our society. Things that will contribute to the General Welfare.

I find it amazing that anyone has to argue that a nation filled with smart healthy compassionate people using clean sustainable energy is not destined to prosper.

But all too often Republicans seem to want us to be a nation full of dumb sick inconsiderate people who are all on their own; while a few very powerful ones take the lion's share for themselves and tell everyone else IGMTHWY: I Got Mine; The Hell With You.
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 12:22:36 PM

SemiSteve said: "-Absurd. Without substance. Imaginative. Turn off hate radio. This liberal, and many known to him, pay taxes."

--But Steve, Buffet has made a point of skirting tax laws. And he could take his capital gains as ordinary income and pay a higher % of tax if he wanted to, do you not agree? He believes wealthier Americans should pay a higher tax rate. And they do, if it's income. But for a very long time now, cap gains have been capped at 15% in order to stimulate growth and investment in the market/companies. Buffet could pay himself in salary, not in stock options if he chose to, and thus pay more in income taxes. So why doesn't he? Do you at least recognize the potential for hypocrisy here?

Ditto Al Gore on his Current TV. It has been reported that he wanted to get the Al Jazeera deal done in 2012, so that he and Hyatt would pay less in taxes (about 25% less on capital gains). And again, he sounds like a hypocrite when, only a few months earlier, he went on TV and said that wealthier Americans such as himself ought to be paying higher rates. OK, where's it at? Once again, hypocrisy in action.

Buffet IMHO is another problem unto Californians. He's proposed repeal of our Prop 13. This is the rule that freezes real property taxes at the rate you paid in the 70s for those who still owned their homes since then. The law also freezes your base tax value at what you bought your house for, then. Thereafter, your rate may increase or decrease by no more than 2% per year. The justification for this law was that municipalities were raising tax rates willy-nilly, and forcing young families and retired folks whose taxes were higher than their mortgage out of their homes and out of the state. In a state like ours where there are large swings in value periodically, that isn't very fair, particularly for the lower income elderly and working families (even middle class ones). Buffet owns a home in Malibu, CA, on the beach. His taxes are frozen at the 70s level since he bought it, and he decries this. His situation is different, as he is super, super wealthy. But my situation in an obscure and unglamorous (though nice enough) part of LaLa land is different from his. I cannot afford to have market re-assessments every year or 6 months, particularly when homes around me were going for in and around $1M (I didn't pay that, I paid far, far less). But now Buffet wants me to have to pay taxes on my home as if it were that high, even though I didn't buy it for that, it's not worth that, and that would put my tax burden at more than my mortgage. Is this what you are supporting SemiSteve? Please read up on the issue so you understand exactly what you are supporting. Buffet grew up wealthy. I think he's WAY out of touch with regular folk.
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sgm4law
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 11:06:47 AM

"I'm not sure I've ever met a liberal that really walks the walk, especially when it comes to their own money."

Maybe you understand it wrong.
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Jan 4, 2013 12:46:02 AM


worryfree is a cruel person.

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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 11:54:36 PM

EZ: "Also, how much longer are you planning to keep that hypocritical avatar that marks you as a sore winner liberal? "


I lost a bet with btc and worryfree over who would win the election, and my payment for losing is having to use an avatar of their choice for a month each. I used btc's choice from Nov 7th (the day after the election) until Dec 7th. This one is worryfree's choice and it runs until Jan 7th.


mudtoe
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 11:38:30 PM

That last link of yours, Mudtoe, you know the one that is the saber rattling of the teacher's union, nice job!

Also, how much longer are you planning to keep that hypocritical avatar that marks you as a sore winner liberal?
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 11:30:03 PM

Panama: "Buffet, being a liberal, is a hypocrite when it comes to personal gain or preference."


They need to update the thesaurus so that when you look for a synonym for liberal you get hypocrite, and visa versa. The relationship is that tight. I'm not sure I've ever met a liberal that really walks the walk, especially when it comes to their own money.


mudtoe



[Edited by: mudtoe at 1/3/2013 11:34:46 PM EST]
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Panama19
Champion Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 11:22:12 PM


mudtoe - "Buffet is like every other liberal in that taxes are for other people to pay, not themselves. Regardless of what they say, when it comes time to write the check, without exception, they do everything possible to avoid doing what they have been preaching others need to do."

SemiSteve - "--Absurd. Without substance. Imaginative. Turn off hate radio. This liberal, and many known to him, pay taxes"

Warren Buffett Owes 1 Billion in Back Taxes

"There are two recent cases where Warren has done everything possible to AVOID paying taxes that he actually owes. The first case involved a 14-year fight over the dividend-received deduction that was finally settled with the IRS in 2005. The second case is still pending after 10 years in which he owes just over $1 BILLION in back taxes"

Buffet, being a liberal, is a hypocrite when it comes to personal gain or preference.

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YDraigGoch
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 8:45:33 PM

Ahh! The "takers/makers" debacle.

The originAl Makers/Takers definition was about states that pay more or less in taxes than they get back. The "makers" had a greater than 1.0 ratio, the takers had less than 1.

If you got bach $.80 for every dollar your state paid, you are a maker. If you get 1.20 back for every dollar your state paid, you are a taker.

As soon as it became evident that Taker states were mostly Republican, and maker states were mostly Democrat, the right wing internet propaganda machine kicked into high gear. maker/taker is now flooded with topics about welfare people (takers) and productive people (makers). Litearlly hundreds of sites popped up overnight with the new definition.

it's now very hard to spot anything about the states. The right does not want anyone to know about the states hit by Sandy (makers) and states that opposed it (takers).

So much for the maker/taker subject.

Capitalism can be defined as the Al Capone style, or the Henry Ford style. Sadly, many people today, on both sides, think the Al Capone style defines CapitAlism.

I say it does not. But many so called capitalists evoke that standard as (as Al Capone would put it ) just doing business.

So when you bring your arguments to the table, be sure you know which principle is backing your claim.

In "The Godfather", Michael says to Kate "Don't worry. In five or ten years, we will be totally legitimate". Yes, but only because Poppa bought enough judges and politicians to make things legal that were once considered illegal.

If what you consider capitalism could not pass the smell test fifty years ago, then maybe it's time to redefine your version of it.
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mudtoe
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 7:14:15 PM

SS: "-Well then I guess we would have to include teachers in that one too."


Agreed, we would.



Purpose of the Teacher's Union in their own words



mudtoe
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:07:42 PM

"Obama's main constituency is the takers, and government employees, most of whom could also be considered takers given that they are paid by the taxpayers and have benefits and pensions all out of proportion to what they actually do and what the private sector pays for similar work. I would exempt those government employees whose job involves danger, such as those in the military who could actually be in harms way (i.e. not the ones who sit in the Pentagon behind a desk all day), firefighters, police, border agents, etc, as their should be a premium paid for those kinds of jobs."

--Well then I guess we would have to include teachers in that one too. And perhaps six year olds.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 3, 2013 5:04:15 PM

"we need to cap bureaucratic costs to, say 10% or less. "

--Medicare would have to use more $ on admin to get there. Currently they are at only 7%.
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