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Author Topic: Should our government investigate further the events of 9/11? Back to Topics
101Speedster

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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2011 10:05:58 AM

I watched a video yesterday on Netflix and it reminded me of a topic that I previously had here and which has since been locked: Is it possible that something other than terrorists in jets brought down the WTC towers on 9/11?.

The video I watched yesterday was: Loose Change 9/11. Click on the link. There is a 3-minute+ trailer for the video. I encourage you to watch the entire video.

I have always been amazed by World Trade 7. How did that building collapse? It is interesting. To this day, there have only been three steel-framed buildings to ever collapse because of fire, all on 9/11.

Should our government investigate what caused those three buildings to collapse?
REPLIES (newest first) Topic is locked
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F5
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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 4:38:09 PM

I recommend that you instead read a book to help you deal with your narcissistic personality disorder.

And I also recommend that the mods close this thread.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 12:11:30 AM

Today, someone recommended to me that I read the book "Classified Woman." Anyone read it yet? I am told it is about an FBI interpreter that works as a language translator. She became a whistle blower after 9/11.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Feb 6, 2013 10:43:40 AM

They definitely need to come clean with what happened in Benghazi on 9/11.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 11:23:56 AM

Of course the Twin Towers would not have fallen if terrorists had not flown jets into them. They also would not have fallen if different parts of our government were allowed to share information with each other. Of course we had received intel that terrorists were planning to crash large jets into tall buildings in our country. Of course we would not be involved in wars in the Middle East if the Twin Towers had not collapsed.
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gas_too_high
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 9:59:24 PM

Put aside WTC 7 for the moment. Were the WTC twin towers brought down by the terrorists who flew the aircraft into them?

Yes or no?

GTH
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 8:04:37 PM

Sometimes the message is blurred or lost because of who the messenger is.
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streetrider
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 7:59:50 PM

Just trying to give speedy some new insight, he likes the conspiracy stuff.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 7:52:27 PM

Maybe I will, streetrider. I have Netflix.
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michaelphoenix2
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 7:47:01 PM

man...i was really hoping this thread would have died when it fell off the front page today.........
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 7:46:32 PM

speedy the connections go back further than Bush.
you should have watched the movie.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 7:43:00 PM

Here is another Netflix movie that I have not seen yet:

9/11: Press for Truth 2006 NR 84 minutes

This documentary chronicles the efforts of families who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attack as they hound powerful officials to uncover the truth. The families succeed in generating an independent investigation, but more questions than answers emerge.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 7:40:21 PM

Here is the movie that streetrider is referring to:

The End of America 2008 NR 74 minutes

Based on Naomi Wolf's sobering best-seller, this documentary examines post-9/11 American freedom. Filmmakers Annie Sundberg and Ricki Stern present evidence that our society's liberty has been systematically eroded under the Bush administration. Their examples parallel the loss of liberty experienced in other countries as their governments tumbled into fascism, and draw chilling connections between what's already happened and what is yet to come.

(I haven't seen this movie.)
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 26, 2012 11:01:06 AM

speedy,
I know you got the time go watch the documentaries, and i am sure you know where to find them?
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 26, 2012 10:57:35 AM

>>since you like conspiracy type stuff go watch the end of America.<<

I feel like I am watching it happen in front of me every day.
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 26, 2012 10:56:33 AM

here is another for you. gas Hole
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streetrider
Champion Author Gary

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Message Posted: Dec 26, 2012 10:55:52 AM

speedy
since you like conspiracy type stuff go watch the end of America. That should give you some thoughts for a while.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 26, 2012 10:18:25 AM

<<So, rumbleseat, are you ready to agree with me that there should have been an official investigation into why WTC 7 collapsed>>

>>Just because somebody found a few apparent anomalies that don't add up to anything? . . . Life is messy. Deal with it.<<

It really doesn't matter what we think. The government already decided that it wasn't necessary.
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 1:55:02 PM

"Should our government investigate further the events of 9/11? As a start, specifically, the collapse of WTC 7. WTC 7 is the easiest issue for me to debate. People get very emotional when you discuss the Twin Towers."

So your real agenda is to reopen the cause of 9/11. That's far different from a limited structural engineering study as to why the structures of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7 failed.

There's a good reason people get "emotional." When someone questions something as, say, glaringly obvious as what happened on 9/11, an event extensively witnessed and recorded, people tend to believe that the person asking the questions is foolish, like someone who thinks the world is flat, despite the presence of photos of the Earth from space(among many other things) that prove the contrary.

As davewalk just said, if you look at any large event hard enough, you'll find anomalies, little things that don't seem to fit. The only meaning I attribute to such things is that we don't know everything. We don't need to be confident beyond a shadow of a doubt, just beyond a reasonable doubt to send a criminal to jail -- or conclude that terrorists who flew planes into buildings, brought down the WTC Towers and WTC 7.

GTH
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Davewalk
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 1:26:26 PM

<<So, rumbleseat, are you ready to agree with me that there should have been an official investigation into why WTC 7 collapsed>>

That's already been done, and it would appear from your comments that you still haven't read the full NIST report, four years after it was issued. Why would you want to waste taxpayer money re-doing the same investigation? Just because somebody found a few apparent anomalies that don't add up to anything? If you look at any big event hard enough, you'll find anomalies. Life is messy. Deal with it.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 12:14:14 PM

>>Again, what are you calling into question?<<

Should our government investigate further the events of 9/11? As a start, specifically, the collapse of WTC 7.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 12:10:01 PM

WTC 7 is the easiest issue for me to debate. People get very emotional when you discuss the Twin Towers.
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 11:49:46 AM

So you are only concerned with WTC 7, and not the Twin Towers?

Again, what are you calling into question?

Why don't you answer questions directly? Is that so hard?

GTH
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 11:39:03 AM

Do you think it is important to know why WTC 7 collapsed? Is it important for architects and engineers to know why WTC 7 collapsed?
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 11:36:27 AM

101speedster: "So, rumbleseat, are you ready to agree with me that there should have been an official investigation into why WTC 7 collapsed?"

So 101speedster, again, what are you calling into question? Why do your speculations about thermite at WTC, matter?

Are you calling into question the clear conclusion that the collapse of the WTC Twin Towers (and secondarily, WTC 7) was caused by the hijacked airliners being crashed into them, part of a terrorist attack tghat also crashed a plan into the Pentagon and attempted to crash one in Washington DC as well?

GTH
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nstrdnvstr
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 8:40:21 AM

We know what happened, it was a terrorist attack. The only "conspiracy" was the one of the terrorists attacking us on that day.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 7:54:53 AM

"So, rumbleseat, are you ready to agree with me that there should have been an official investigation into why WTC 7 collapsed?"

No, all you have done is regurgitate conspiracy theorists bleatings, all of which have been explained and/or debunked many times.
You are going to go to your grave believing the conspiracies, just as people are going to their graves believing Kennedy was not only shot in a government plot, but survived and moved to a luxury plantation, and people still believe Elvis' death was a hoax, and the moon landings were faked. These theories verge on the paranoic.
I, on the other hand, am part of the majority that accept scientific analyses, both official, and non-official.
Further discussion is meaningless. At my age, I recognize when the horses are dead. Continue beating them if you must, but look around, your stable is pretty much empty.

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 12/20/2012 8:00:20 AM EST]
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F5
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 4:38:46 AM

Molten Metal

End of story.
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michaelphoenix2
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:51:34 PM

Rumble, g2h, turbo..... i need to give you guys a piece of advice.

Quit now. I learned a long time ago that arguing with a die hard conspiracy theorist is pointless. They will ignore any facts and evidence you bring and counter with their own made up fairytales.

The only benefit of posting in a conspiracy theory thread is to troll the OP repeataly and mock him.

Otherwise its best just to let it die and the post to fall off the front page to be forgotten in the annals of gasbuddy history.
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turbosaab
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:37:53 PM

101Speedster: ""It takes thousands of degrees to bend steel like this.""

No, it doesn't.

Depending on location and loading, steel can bend like that at much less than 1000 F. That's basic metallurgy and engineering.

[Edited by: turbosaab at 12/19/2012 9:44:30 PM EST]
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:17:26 PM

So, rumbleseat, are you ready to agree with me that there should have been an official investigation into why WTC 7 collapsed?
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 1:39:54 PM

Video: Was it molten aluminum from an airplance? NIST tests say no.

"Molten aluminum is silvery -- not glowing yellow or orange. It doesn't "luminesce" in daylight as this experiment shows."
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 1:30:49 PM

I don't know about clean cuts, but can it bend steel columns with no buckling or cracks?
"It takes thousands of degrees to bend steel like this."

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/19/2012 1:36:57 PM EST]
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 1:24:10 PM

Interesting hypothesis, rumbleseat. Can aluminum burn underwater for months?
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 9:29:00 PM

Thermite can't make clean cuts sideways, it burns chaotically. It would also take literally tons of it to take down a building. It takes close to 5 lbs just to burn a small hole in a small car engine.
You are barking up the wrong tree even mentioning thermite.
In actual fact, what was found wasn't thermite, it was something that would have been there anyway, that being sulphur.

Debunking 911 thermite

Aluminum and the WTC Disaster

[Edited by: rumbleseat at 12/16/2012 9:38:57 PM EST]
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 9:10:54 PM

101speedster: "I never said anything about Thermite demolition. I merely pointed out that Thermite was found on and around the WTC site."

If it was not a part of any alleged demolition activity, as some of your posts indicate, then what is its relevance to the 9/11 terrorist attacks?

"I'm sorry that I am asking questions that do not match up with the hypothesis of the NIST spokesman."

I never referred to any "NIST spokesman." But I did ask you a series of questions about what most of us would consider "common knowledge" about the events of September 11, 2001.

You are implicitly calling that "common knowledge" into question by starting a topic asking of the 9/11 investigation should be reopened, and by referring to theories about thermite.

If you don't want to be misunderstood, state clearly what you are calling into question. Don't just state you are presenting "facts". You clearly feel those "facts" are relevant in some way. How?

GTH
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 10:51:21 AM

>>Someone should start a new thread on how the government faked the moon landings too.<<

It is so much easier to believe the NIST hypothesis, Michael, when you ignore the facts and findings.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 10:46:13 AM

It must be so easy living in your black and white world, rumbleseat.

Tell me why the Thermite was there, rumbleseat.

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/16/2012 10:47:32 AM EST]
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2012 5:44:25 PM

"I never said anything about Thermite demolition. I merely pointed out that Thermite was found on and around the WTC site."

Have somebody read that out loud to you. It is actually quite hilarious.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2012 12:53:57 PM

>>If you believe the above, how do your theories on thermite demolition of the WTC towers and WTC 7 relate to those attacks?<<

I never said anything about Thermite demolition. I merely pointed out that Thermite was found on and around the WTC site.

>>You can ask all the questions you want, but if the answers don't match up with the already known facts, then you likely are not arriving at the right answers.<<

I'm sorry that I am asking questions that do not match up with the hypothesis of the NIST spokesman.
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michaelphoenix2
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 5:58:55 PM

Someone should start a new thread on how the government faked the moon landings too.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 5:57:42 PM

Post all the old, tired, rehashed, debunked links you want, the EXPERTS have spoken.
I don't play troll, there are enough closed-minded conspiracy theorists to fill that bill quite nicely.
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 3:35:49 PM

101speedster: "I am only asking the questions. What conclusions you come to based on the facts that I introduce is up to you."

So let me ask a few questions here:

- Do you believe that American Flight 11 and United Flight 75 flew into the World Trade Center twin towers on September 11, 2001, followed by a fire at the crash site in each tower and followed shortly thereafter by those tower's collapse, and later by the collapse of World Trade Center 7?

- Do you believe that American Flight 77 flew into the Pentagon on the same date?

- Do you believe that United Flight 93 crashed into a field outside of Shanksville Pennsylvania on the same date?

- Do you believe each of these flights were hijacked by terrorists as part of an organized attack upon the United States?

- If you believe the above, how do your theories on thermite demolition of the WTC towers and WTC 7 relate to those attacks? Were they part of those attacks, or were they a separate occurrence?

- If you believe they were separate, who do you believe planned and carried out those attacks?

- If they were separate attacks, were they planned to coincide with the aircraft hijackings and crashes, or not?

You can ask all the questions you want, but if the answers don't match up with the already known facts, then you likely are not arriving at the right answers.

GTH

[Edited by: gas_too_high at 12/14/2012 3:37:08 PM EST]
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:48:59 AM

gas_too_high,

Don't let your emotions distract you from the questions that I ask. I have shown you the video below of John Gross, the lead engineer on the NIST report flatly denying the existence of any molten steel at the WTC site. I also posted numerous videos and pictures of molten steel at the WTC site.

I am only asking the questions. What conclusions you come to based on the facts that I introduce is up to you.

>>As a side note, the collapse of WTC 7, while not caused by planes crashing into it, was subject to much debris from the twin towers that also provides a plausible explanation<<

I have also posted several pictures of WTC 7 immediately after the towers' collapse which show that not to be the case.
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:40:30 AM

Unignited Thermite found in the WTC dust?

Partially ignited Thermite found in WTC dust?

What does it look like if it ignites?
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:35:09 AM

This is, at the very least, foolish, if not much worse.

9/11 was one of the most witnessed terrorist attacks in history. Not only is there extensive network footage of the plane flying into the South Tower, which we've all seen, but also amateur video footage exists from multiple sources, of the first plane hitting the North Tower. And of course, both incidents are backed up with hundreds if not thousands of direct eyewitness accounts.

Likewise, there is extensive video and eyewitness evidence showing both buildings on fire, followed by their collapse. Structural failure of the steel beams caused by high temperature jet-fuel fires provides ample explanation of the collapse. (As a side note, the collapse of WTC 7, while not caused by planes crashing into it, was subject to much debris from the twin towers that also provides a plausible explanation).

Then there are the 2 other hijacked planes, American Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon, and United Flight 93, that likely would have been crashed into the White House or the Capitol, were it not for the heroic actions of the passengers on board. How would these be covered in an alternate explanation?

Finally, there is the 9/11 commission, which had access to classified government records. Had the commission uncovered even a hint of a cause other than the obvious terrorist attack, there would have been no way for that to have been kept a secret.

I said this was foolish, if not much worse. What would make it much worse, would be the allegation that the government, up to and including President George W Bush, in fact instigated this attack that caused almost 3000 American lives. While 101speedster has not made that accusation from what I see; if the videos he links to, do so, that is reprehensible.

That a sitting President, *any* President, including Barack Obama, would launch an attack on American citizens in violation of his oath of office, basically amounts to a "blood libel" on a par with vicious anti-Semetic smears. You don't even hint at such a charge, without clear and convincing, if not overwhelming, evidence.

GTH
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:26:01 AM

At what temperature does structural steel melt?

Video: And yet NIST flatly denies the existence of molten metal.

Fires much worse after collapse. Fires burning underwater? Last fire not extinguished until Dec. 19, 2001.

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/14/2012 11:32:25 AM EST]
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:17:26 AM

>>It was proven there was NO thermite, so there is no point in speculating about it.<<

Are you playing troll with me, rumbleseat? Have you looked at the pictures and slides that are in my post?

>>Thermite makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts.<<

Video: Pouring Molten Metal from WTC 2

I can keep posting the links for you, rumbleseat, to ignore, or you can actually go through the pictures and videos.

Molten metal on the street

Massive heat source bends steel columns

Molten Metal "Meteorites"

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/14/2012 11:22:56 AM EST]
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101Speedster
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:06:11 AM

>>It was proven there was NO thermite, so there is no point in speculating about it.<<

Are you playing troll with me, rumbleseat? Have you looked at the pictures and slides that are in my post?

>>Thermite makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts.<<

Video: Pouring Molten Metal from WTC 2

I can keep posting the links for you, rumbleseat, to ignore, or you can actually go through the pictures and videos.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 8:04:12 AM

A critical analysis
Sorry, but a professional, expert, critical analysis pretty much agrees with my assessment the buildings were NOT blown down.
Loud noises that people thought sounded like explosions do nothing to refute the SCIENTIFIC evidence.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 2:11:28 AM

It was proven there was NO thermite, so there is no point in speculating about it.
Simple research with any explosives expert reveals the following:
Thermite makes an ugly hole with molten metal drips/blobs. It doesn't make clean cuts.
The possibility that 7 WTC was brought down with explosives was researched. The conclusion was no blast event occured.
No blast was audible on recordings of the collapse and that no blast was reported by witnesses, except the guy who was in the building, and would have been killed had he really heard a blast while he was in the stairwell.
Blasts would have created a sound level of 130-140 decibels at a distance of half a mile. That is undeniable fact.
There is no silencer for dynamite, C4, or for any other explosive.
Thermite, on the other hand, is silent, however, it is beyond belief that enough thermite to bring down a building could even have been brought into the building un-noticed.
In order to cut through a vertical steel beam, special high-temperature containment must be added to prevent the molten iron from dropping down. The thermite reaction is too slow for it to be practical in building demolition use.

You are simply re-hashing the same stuff that has been floating around, DEBUNKED several times, for years.
You will probably go to your grave believing it.
Believers in conspiracy theories normally do die of old age before seeing the theories for the nonsense they are.
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