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101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 20, 2011 1:04:09 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse How high will we and our politicians let our national debt go? U. S. National Debt Clock It's currently $14,311,240,500,000 and climbing.

101Speedster

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Ventura

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2011 1:04:09 PM

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How high will we and our politicians let our national debt go?

U. S. National Debt Clock

It's currently $14,311,240,500,000 and climbing.

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101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 13, 2013 5:49:01 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>I simply stated you were a hypocrite because you whine eccensantly about the deficit while advocating and promoting liberal handouts such as the tax credit for EV's...<< I don't whine, Shock. I don't like politicians spending more of our tax money than what actually comes into the government coffers. You seem to love to twist what I say and mischaracterize my position. But that's what trolls do. >>Yes, let’s eliminate subsidies—starting with those that make electricity from oil, gas, and coal artificially cheap.<< Why do you insist on holding me to a higher standard than ExxonMobil, Shock, or Big Oil? [Edited by: 101Speedster at 6/13/2013 5:50:42 PM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 5:56:58 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse Our current system also requires the IRS to enforce. Wouldn't it be easier to enforce a flat tax than our current system that no one understands? I have no problem paying a national sales tax only, but the others would say that would be unfair to the 47%ers because they would actually have to pay something.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 5:56:19 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I am no different from ExxonMobil. They do everything they can to keep as much of their own money as they can." I never said you shouldn't speedy. I simply stated you were a hypocrite because you whine eccensantly about the deficit while advocating and promoting liberal handouts such as the tax credit for EV's... You still are...
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,302 Points:2,384,825 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 5:50:20 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse americanmade1 - "That is why the Flat tax system would work, plus we could abolish the IRS... " Sorry, but a flat tax requires the IRS to enforce. Now with national sales tax, euphemistically called the Fair Tax, you would receive 100% of your paycheck, and you pay tax on what you spend, at the cash register. [Edited by: ldheinz at 6/11/2013 5:50:36 PM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 5:50:16 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I am no different from ExxonMobil. They do everything they can to keep as much of their own money as they can. I think I should be able to do the same. It is ExxonMobil's money and not yours or the governments, Shock. If you have a problem with the IRS tax code, you should try to get it changed. I would be fine with a flat tax. If we had that then everyone in this country could pay the same percentage and actually contribute something to the running of this country. I think there are a lot of people in our government, and others, though, that are not willing to give up their beloved tax deductions and tax credits. Probably, the 46%ers are also not willing to start paying income taxes.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 5:44:23 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "What if I never paid the money in the first place, Shock?" Well, if you owed the money in the first place, I would assume you would probably go to jail for tax evasion...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 5:11:47 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse What if I never paid the money in the first place, Shock? You and the government can't count on money that is not yours.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 8:12:54 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "You are assuming, Shock, that the IRS and/or the federal government has a predetermined amount of money that they expect me to make in any given year." No speedy, I'm assuming you take a $7500 tax credit. If you pay in $7500 less then the deficit increases by $7500 and in turn the debt. It's simple math speedy. Not sure why you have so much trouble with simple subtraction... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 6/11/2013 8:13:42 AM EST]
americanmade1 Champion Author Tampa Posts:8,071 Points:1,223,525 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 7:59:29 AM Ignore americanmade1 Report Abuse That is why the Flat tax system would work, plus we could abolish the IRS...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 10:02:09 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>If you pay $7500 less due to a tax credit, that's $7500 less in the coffers which raises the deficit and in turn the debt by $7500. It's simple math speedy...<< You are assuming, Shock, that the IRS and/or the federal government has a predetermined amount of money that they expect me to make in any given year. Maybe we should all work part-time and join the 46%ers and not contribute anything.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 8, 2013 2:45:22 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Whether I pay the federal government $3,500 this year or whether I pay them $11,000 this year will not raise the national debt." If you pay $7500 less due to a tax credit, that's $7500 less in the coffers which raises the deficit and in turn the debt by $7500. It's simple math speedy... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 6/8/2013 2:46:15 PM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 8, 2013 2:25:49 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse $16,859,118,000,000 trillion and counting. Approximate U. S. Public Debt Subject to Limit after the can was kicked down the road again: $16,844,000,000,000. We appear to have crashed through the debt ceiling AGAIN $15 billion ago.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 8, 2013 2:23:13 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I will try one more time, Shock. Whether I pay the federal government $3,500 this year or whether I pay them $11,000 this year will not raise the national debt. It is the government spending more money than what they take from wage earners that raises the national debt.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 11:35:35 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I think not. My point is made" What taht the $7500 tax credit increase the national debt? Yes, point made...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 10:25:55 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse As of right now we are above the debt ceiling AGAIN by over $5 billion.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 10:24:59 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>What do you think?<< I think not. My point is made.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 3, 2013 8:19:02 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Do the math speedy... What do you think? Of course with your poor money mangement skills, perhaps I'm asking too much of you...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2013 11:04:16 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse So, Shock, you think that if I want to work less hours this year so that I remain in the 50% of households that do not pay federal income taxes that I am raising the national debt?
kiatoindos All-Star Author Chicago Posts:871 Points:107,855 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2013 10:03:09 AM Ignore kiatoindos Report Abuse Just have the libs fire up the money machine print some more let the kids pay it back later!
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2013 9:40:24 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Whether I pay $11,000 in federal taxes this year or whether I buy an electric car and pay only $3,500 in federal taxes, how is that increasing the national debt?" Wow, not very good at math are you speedy? If you pay $7500 less in taxes, there is $7500 less to pay for the programs liberals like you like so well... And for what? To help pay for an expensive, impractical, uneconomical toy? [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 6/1/2013 9:42:14 AM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 31, 2013 8:39:28 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse Shock, I don't know why I continue to try to get through to your thick name-calling skull, but I will try again. Whether I pay $11,000 in federal taxes this year or whether I buy an electric car and pay only $3,500 in federal taxes, how is that increasing the national debt? I am still paying taxes, unlike the other 50% of wage earners in this country that do not pay anything. Next year, if I only want to work part time and make $50,000 for the year, are you saying that I am increasing the national debt because I don't owe federal income taxes? Or, using the numbers in the above paragraph, if I work just hard enough so that next year I only owe the same $3,500 in federal taxes, how am I increasing the national debt? In either of the two above examples, the federal government is getting $3,500. You remind me of the guy, Shock, that said, "I didn't buy a Ferrari so I saved myself $200,000." You can't count money that you never had in the first place. Neither can the government. It is not their money. It belongs to the wage earner. [Edited by: 101Speedster at 5/31/2013 8:41:10 PM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 31, 2013 1:32:54 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "If you are not happy with that, Shock, because possibly you don't make enough money to qualify for the full tax credit, then you should try to get it changed, or get a better job." I pay far enough taxes to cover the tax credit speedy. Not sure what your comment has to do with your original eroneous post, but then liberals like yourself have a difficult time concentrating on the subject at hand...
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 31, 2013 1:31:00 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Whether I choose to work this year or not" Who said anything about working? Like a typical liberal you complain about the National debt, while simultaneously advocating the increasing of it with a liberal EV tax credit..
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 31, 2013 1:00:56 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>I think it's hilarious how you complain about the National debt, while simultaneously advocating the increasing of it with a liberal EV tax credit..<< Whether I choose to work this year or not, Shock, and thus pay taxes, or not, does not increase the national debt. It is the government spending by our politicians that affects our national debt. You keep forgetting that we are talking about taxpayers' money and not the government's money.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 31, 2013 12:54:07 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>The $7500 is a tax credit, not a refundable tax credit. In order to get the full reduction you must owe at least the amount of the credit...<< If you are not happy with that, Shock, because possibly you don't make enough money to qualify for the full tax credit, then you should try to get it changed, or get a better job. [Edited by: 101Speedster at 5/31/2013 12:54:44 PM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 12:10:13 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse I think it's hilarious how you complain about the National debt, while simultaneously advocating the increasing of it with a liberal EV tax credit.. Hypocrisy at it's best... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 5/29/2013 12:10:33 PM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 12:07:19 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Look at line 46 of your 1040 federal tax form. If it is $7,500 or higher" So? As I pointed out twice now, a single person making $50,000/year never owes more then $5569.25... So that person is not able to pick the treasury for the full $7500... So back to my original CORRECT statement... Wrong answer speedy. The $7500 is a tax credit, not a refundable tax credit. In order to get the full reduction you must owe at least the amount of the credit... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 5/29/2013 12:08:42 PM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 11:59:01 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse You only posted half of what I posted, Shock. Look at line 46 of your 1040 federal tax form. If it is $7,500 or higher, then you can take the $7,500 tax credit for buying an electric car.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 11:49:46 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "It is not the government's money. It is my money." Then why do you have to file paperwork with the government to get it back?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 11:48:53 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Look at line 46 of your 1040 federal tax form. If it is $7,500 or higher" The $7500 is not a deduction, it is a tax credit. You can't take a bigger tax credit then you owe... A single person making $50,000 should never owe more then $5569.25...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 11:47:01 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse It is the taxpayer's money. It is not the government's money. It is my money. [Edited by: 101Speedster at 5/29/2013 11:47:46 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 11:43:42 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "But would they buy an electric car for less than $20,000 out of pocket?" Unfortunately there are no EV's less then $20,000 oput of pocket, unless you are talking about picking the tax payer pocket...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 11:31:12 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse The sequester cuts seem to be keeping us below the debt ceiling.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 10:46:44 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>I doubt seriously someone who makes $50,000/year would be buying an $80,000 car<< But would they buy an electric car for less than $20,000 out of pocket? At Under $19K for a Nissan Leaf, Does the Math on Electric Cars Finally Add Up?
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 10:32:45 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse Look at line 46 of your 1040 federal tax form. If it is $7,500 or higher, then you can take the $7,500 tax credit for buying an electric car.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 10:30:04 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse You sure don't know much about taxes speedy... A single person who makes $50,000 would only be required to pay $5569.25 cents in Federal income taxes (2012 figures)... Plus I doubt seriously someone who makes $50,000/year would be buying an $80,000 car, unless they are a liberal like yourself with no money management skills...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 29, 2013 10:18:32 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I forgot that half of the wage earners in this country do not pay income taxes. If a person earns $50,000 a year and only pays 15% of his gross income to federal taxes, that will qualify him for the $7,500 tax credit. It does not have anything to do with how much you withheld from your paycheck during the year. Even if you get a tax refund every year, you can still get the $7,500 tax credit.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 28, 2013 11:08:13 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Why not? It is a tax credit. You get the money whether you owe money or not" Wrong answer speedy. The $7500 is a tax credit, not a refundable tax credit. In order to get the full reduction you must owe at least the amount of the credit...
kiatoindos All-Star Author Chicago Posts:871 Points:107,855 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: May 28, 2013 10:55:55 AM Ignore kiatoindos Report Abuse Don't worry about it we'll just print more money.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:12,141 Points:1,225,615 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: May 28, 2013 10:49:24 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse 9 ways Americans haven't recovered (this article is from another thread in this forum, actually from the same Huff Post thread by another OP, it's just that you have to click at the bottom of that article to see the following information): 9 ways Americans haven't recovered from the S&P doubling under Obama: 1. Unemployment When the economy was roaring in 2007, the U.S. unemployment rate was 5 percent. In January 2013 the unemployment rate was 7.9 percent. 2. Income And Wages The U.S. median income fell to $50,054 in 2011, which is the most recent full year in which that data is available. That's down 8.1 percent since 2007. Wages also fell to a record-low 43.5 percent of the economy in 2012, according to the New York Times. Meanwhile, corporate profits are still booming. 3. Number Of People On Food Stamps The number of Americans on food stamps surged to a record in 46 million in June 2012. That's compared to 26.5 million in 2007. 4. Uninsured Americans More than 16 percent of Americans -- or 48.6 million people -- were uninsured in 2011, according to Kaiser Health News. This number is higher than what it was in 2007, when the share of uninsured Americans was 15.3 percent. 5. Student Loan Debt The average student loan debt for a class of 2011 graduate was about $26,500, according to the Project on Student Debt data cited by the New York Times. Since 2007, when the average student debt was $23,349, student loan debt has increased for almost every demographic and the size of that debt has gone up as well, according to Pew. 6. Homelessness In 2011, 644,067 Americans experienced homelessness on any given night, according to data from the National Alliance to End Homelessness cited by NBC News. Though that number is actually down 13 percent from 2007, the decrease is largely attributed to a boost in the number of programs to help keep the homeless off the streets. 7. Children In Poverty More than 16 million children -- or about 20 percent of American children -- were in poverty in 2011, according to the Census Bureau. That's up from nearly 18 percent of American children in 2007. 8. Homeownership We're on our way to becoming a renter nation. The homeownership rate in the 12 months leading up to May 2012 was 65.4 percent, according to Census Bureau data cited by CNNMoney. That's the lowest rate in 15 years. In the last quarter of 2007, the homeownership rate was 67.8 percent. 9. Foreclosures There were 2.7 million foreclosures in 2011. That's up from 2.2 million foreclosures in 2007. --------------------------------------------- The HUFF Post goes on to say: Though Obama has reaped huge gains for Corporate America, his economy hasn’t been as great for us normals. We’re still in the throws of the slowest job-market recovery since World War II, with nearly 12 million Americans unemployed. In addition, wages have largely stagnated and millions of homeowners are still suffering from the housing crash, burdened by owing more money on their homes than they’re worth. There is also a 10 reason that I'm surprised the Huff Post didn't list: 10. Barack Obama’s First Term – $5.806 trillion increase -------------------------------------------------------- To summarize, the National Debt increased by huge amounts under each of these presidents. However, the largest increase under any President, whether for one or two terms, occurred during Barack Obama’s first term, which saw an increase of $5.806 trillion to the National Debt. As of the end of President Obama’s first term, the National Debt stands at $16.433 trillion dollars. Current Obama administration projections indicate that the National Debt will increase to over $20 trillion by the end of his second term. It is clear that the National Debt has been growing uncontrollably in recent years, regardless of which political party has been in power. To reverse this trend, we need to hold our elected officials accountable and demand that they balance the budget and reduce the National Debt. --------------------------------- So, how's that S&P 500 double working for you?
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,302 Points:2,384,825 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: May 28, 2013 10:42:36 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse Yes, but you SHOULDN'T get a government subsidy to buy an $80,000 toy. That's a reverse Robin Hood action, stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 28, 2013 10:18:51 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>actually shockjock, if you are referring to the tax break, not everyone that can purchase a vehicle can get the 7,500. Maybe you weren't aware of that?<< Why not? It is a tax credit. You get the money whether you owe money or not.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 25, 2013 10:10:39 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse So you honestly think that someone who buys an $80,000 vehicle is not paying at least $7500 a year in taxes?
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,353 Points:1,848,810 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: May 24, 2013 5:58:25 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse I'm real...
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 24, 2013 3:53:04 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "actually shockjock, if you are referring to the tax break, not everyone that can purchase a vehicle can get the 7,500" Do you really think that someone who buys a $80,000+ car isn't going to get a tax break? Get real...
reb4 Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,353 Points:1,848,810 Joined:Sep 2004	Message Posted: May 24, 2013 3:44:27 PM Ignore reb4 Report Abuse actually shockjock, if you are referring to the tax break, not everyone that can purchase a vehicle can get the 7,500. Maybe you weren't aware of that?
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 24, 2013 2:11:43 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Every Tesla sold adds $7500 to the national debt. You are wrong again speedy...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 24, 2013 1:37:17 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse None of the national debt is because of Tesla Motors, Shock.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,375 Points:2,211,885 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 16, 2013 9:01:33 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse How can it kill me when it's not "in high demand". 1600 cars sold a month is a very low sales figure. Prius's sold at the rate of 20,000/month at that's considered a mediocre sales figure.... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 5/16/2013 9:06:45 PM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,834 Points:2,741,445 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 16, 2013 8:31:24 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse It must kill you, Shock, that the Tesla Model S is in high demand.