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Author	Topic: Should the government be encouraging cars that never need gas?	Post a Reply Back to Topics

101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2010 11:08:05 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse Cars that never need gas. Maybe our tax dollars should be going to solar, wind, and other alternative energy companies than to the major oil companies >>There are hybrids. There are electric cars that plug into a wall and get their juice from whatever mix the electric company is offering. And then there are electic cars that are charged by solar panels on the roof of one's house. They never need gas, and the power is free after the set-up cost . . . . . . Asked how long it will take for the PV system to pay for itself, Dickey replies: ". . . the instant I turned my system on." Dickey had been paying $75 a month for electricity. He took a loan out to buy the PV system, and pays $70 a month toward that loan. "My electricity and gasoline bills are now zero, and next year when my loan is paid off, this investment will be paying me probably for the rest of my life. My PV system covers the power for my home and my car. It displaces $90 worth of electricity and over $100 worth of gasoline every month. So my estimate of how long until the system pays for itself is no time at all!"<< Other links mentioned in the article above: evnut.com eaaev.org pluginamerica.org [Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/5/2010 11:10:17 AM EST]

101Speedster

Champion Author
Ventura

Posts:30,401
Points:2,714,620
Joined:May 2005

Message Posted: Dec 5, 2010 11:08:05 AM

Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse

Cars that never need gas. Maybe our tax dollars should be going to solar, wind, and other alternative energy companies than to the major oil companies

>>There are hybrids. There are electric cars that plug into a wall and get their juice from whatever mix the electric company is offering. And then there are electic cars that are charged by solar panels on the roof of one's house. They never need gas, and the power is free after the set-up cost . . .

. . . Asked how long it will take for the PV system to pay for itself, Dickey replies: ". . . the instant I turned my system on." Dickey had been paying $75 a month for electricity. He took a loan out to buy the PV system, and pays $70 a month toward that loan. "My electricity and gasoline bills are now zero, and next year when my loan is paid off, this investment will be paying me probably for the rest of my life. My PV system covers the power for my home and my car. It displaces $90 worth of electricity and over $100 worth of gasoline every month. So my estimate of how long until the system pays for itself is no time at all!"<<

Other links mentioned in the article above:

evnut.com
eaaev.org
pluginamerica.org

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/5/2010 11:10:17 AM EST]

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Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 6, 2013 9:03:52 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Why would that be, oilpan, if the cost of electricity to run a car is at least a third of the cost of gasoline to run a combustion engine vehicle?" Because EV's cost premium far exceeds what you would save in fuel. "That doesn't even take into account free energy from the sun if you have solar panels." Solar energy is not free, you pay for it up front, and it's more expensive then conventional types of electricty. Loose, Loose...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: May 5, 2013 7:56:11 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>Any time gas prices drop to near $3/gal electric car sales flat line.<< Why would that be, oilpan, if the cost of electricity to run a car is at least a third of the cost of gasoline to run a combustion engine vehicle? That doesn't even take into account free energy from the sun if you have solar panels.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,033 Points:306,440 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: May 5, 2013 3:52:26 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse Companies that only manufacture electric cars are not going to be able to stand on their own. Any time gas prices drop to near $3/gal electric car sales flat line. A company that depends on "high gas prices" to survive is not going to make it with the crazy oil market.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 4, 2013 11:20:17 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Another one bites the dust... Electric Carmaker Coda Files for Bankruptcy
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 3:50:10 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse Here's an interesting news item: A tax on electric cars so that they pay their fair share.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 27, 2013 11:35:41 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse Sorry, 101Speedster, I must have missed that. How was the NY Times behaving fraudulently again? I don't see anything in the last month or so. I thought people might enjoy knowing about the illegal and immoral tactics that are used by anti-practical fuel supporters when they get the power to do things: EPA Official Says Goal Is to ‘Crucify’ Oil and Natural Gas Companies
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 27, 2013 11:09:52 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I thought we already proved the NY Times test to be a fraud, bogus.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 27, 2013 11:05:50 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse We'll be much better off if he doesn't, Shockjock1961. Lomborg: Electric Cars Get Dumber by the Day. And so would he: Tesla Sedan Fails Miserably in NY Times Test Drive. [Edited by: ldheinz at 4/27/2013 11:09:13 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 4:05:06 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Who's says they won't? Solyndra's stock was pretty high at one point. Look what happened to them. So where's that EV of yours Speedy?
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 2:53:48 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse Did you buy any Tesla Motors stock when I recommended it to you, Shock? Probably not. I seem to remember you saying something like Tesla was going to go bankrupt.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 11:41:25 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I just admitted that I made a big mistake by not buying a Nissan Leaf last year." Have you bought one yet? Didn't think so... Face it speedy, you are all talk and not much else... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/26/2013 11:42:45 AM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 10:28:42 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse You don't read, Shock, what I write. I just admitted that I made a big mistake by not buying a Nissan Leaf last year.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 12:10:09 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I see Shock is criticizing me again for making too much money and paying too much in taxes" Too much money? And yet you can't afford to buy a Leaf? Doesn't sound like you make much at all...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 11:37:24 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I see Shock is criticizing me again for making too much money and paying too much in taxes. Did you buy any of that Tesla stock, Shock, before the price skyrocketed? ;)
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 2:08:08 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse It should be interesting to see how much down time these taxis experience when they have to run the air conditioner during the summertime and heater in the winter.... My guess is the driver will be losing a lot of fares... Plus how many people are going to want to take a taxi that has such small back seats? If you have luggage, where are you going to put it? [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/23/2013 2:10:33 PM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 2:00:22 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I could have used the $12,500 in tax credits." If you would learn to manage your money, you would not have need of welfare assistance...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 1:56:43 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse NYC's new all-electric taxis
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 1:55:47 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I could have used the $12,500 in tax credits.
teacher_tim Champion Author Maryland Posts:15,691 Points:744,385 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 1:57:00 PM Ignore teacher_tim Report Abuse Not for the "clean-energy" reason certainly. Electricity is one of the dirtier polluters around here. Hmmmm, maybe if we build a hydroelectric dam just below Washington, DC we could solve several problems at once...
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 1:56:40 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "that kind of logic is like the person who keeps getting a new mortgage for their home because of the deduction they get on their taxes.' Simple lack of basic money management skills...
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,783 Points:1,008,610 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 12:05:41 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Speedy - that kind of logic is like the person who keeps getting a new mortgage for their home because of the deduction they get on their taxes.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 11:30:51 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse With hindsight, seeing how high my tax bill is this year, I definitely should have bought an electric car before the end of 2012.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 10:41:37 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse I have a very good idea what I'm talking about. After all speedy, you have yet to buy an EV despite the fact you say you earn a very good living and that EV's are far superior to ICE's... Obviously you are either lying or you lack the money management skills that would allow you to buy the uneconomical white elephant that is the EV...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 12:36:30 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse You have no idea what you are talking about, Shock.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 3:21:56 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "You might lose that bet." I doubt that. You manage your money so poorly you can't afford to buy yourself one... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/10/2013 3:23:09 PM EST]
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 12:47:51 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>I bet the cars you buy won't be EV's.<< You might lose that bet. For all we know, Shock, you are driving a Nissan Leaf.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 11:03:35 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I will probably be buying cars for my kids before I get a new one" I bet the cars you buy won't be EV's. Hypocrisy at it's best...
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 10:43:47 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse I will probably be buying cars for my kids before I get a new one.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,033 Points:306,440 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 2:22:08 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "I personally do not drive over 300 miles a day". Why didn't you have one then? "My Honda does not pull a trailer or move firewood." Why not? Buy a trailer - Ecomodder.com
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 5:45:27 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>Can I pull a trailer with an EV, move firewood or get my kids to and from collage. If it can’t do all of the above It’s not for me.<< My Honda does not pull a trailer or move firewood.
johnnyg1200 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:4,108 Points:641,215 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 5:35:40 PM Ignore johnnyg1200 Report Abuse Can I pull a trailer with an EV, move firewood or get my kids to and from collage. If it can’t do all of the above It’s not for me.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 2:49:07 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse "I personally do not drive over 300 miles a day" But do you ever drive more than 300 miles in a day? Then that car's not for you.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 1:26:00 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I personally do not drive over 300 miles a day" How's that EV working out for you speedy.... Oh that's right, you can't afford one... There in lies the problem. EV's are simply not economical.... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/9/2013 1:29:11 PM EST]
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 12:15:36 PM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse I stand corrected.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,783 Points:1,008,610 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 12:00:04 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse So you don't drive over the estimated battery distance ever Speedy? Or will you still need to have another vehicle sitting there losing value and costing cash for licensing and lost investment opportunity? Regardless of what you say Speedy the economics just don't seem to pan out for the average person.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 11:56:00 AM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse >>You mean there isn't a market for a $70,000 car with limited range and long charger dwell times!<< I personally do not drive over 300 miles a day.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 11:40:10 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse Actually SG, I believe it's Fisker who is laying off 80% of it's work force, not Tesla...
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,033 Points:306,440 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 10:21:19 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Sounds like they might be going under. " You mean there isn't a market for a $70,000 car with limited range and long charger dwell times!
SoylentGrain Veteran Author Illinois Posts:435 Points:7,940 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 8:51:36 AM Ignore SoylentGrain Report Abuse You guys need to stop debating price and get into a Tesla dealership and buy your car. Tesla just announced they were laying off 80% of their workforce. Sounds like they might be going under.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,033 Points:306,440 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 4:27:05 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse Surely speedster can provide a link to a place where you can buy this $60,000 tesla with crazy long range.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,783 Points:1,008,610 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 12:25:47 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse But by all means toss a couple of solar panels on your roof so you can charge it at night too.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 9:38:14 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse And let's not forget the battery charger and an extra electrical service to run it.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 9:32:43 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "The stated price for the cheap one is with the 60kw battery pack is 62,000 plus" Actually add $7500 to that and you might be correct, but that still doesn't include all the additional charges and fees (don't forget sales tax!) you will have to pay. So now you are looking at $75,000 - $80,000 for the BASE model that doesn't let you travel more then 100 miles from home (on a good day)... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/8/2013 9:35:53 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 9:28:42 AM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "Making things up again, Shock?" Not at all speedy. I would be willing to bet that the average price of all Tesla's sold to date is much closer to $100,000 each then your fantasy of $50,000 each. So who is making stuff up speedy?
johnnyg1200 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:4,108 Points:641,215 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 12:05:16 AM Ignore johnnyg1200 Report Abuse The Model S performance will cost you $87,000 base price.
johnnyg1200 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:4,108 Points:641,215 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 12:05:14 AM Ignore johnnyg1200 Report Abuse The Model S performance will cost you $87,000 base price.
johnnyg1200 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:4,108 Points:641,215 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 12:03:36 AM Ignore johnnyg1200 Report Abuse I need to make a correction. The charging system can add $3,000 to the price not $5,000. Still at 65,000 give or take I could by a house for that kind of money.
101Speedster Champion Author Ventura Posts:30,401 Points:2,714,620 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 11:58:31 PM Ignore 101Speedster Report Abuse Shock: "With the cars selling for $100,000+ what took them so long to become profitable?" Making things up again, Shock?
johnnyg1200 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:4,108 Points:641,215 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 11:47:54 PM Ignore johnnyg1200 Report Abuse I decided to try to find a price on a Tesla car. So I went to their website and typed in my zip code. The closest dealer is north of Chicago, 320 miles away or five hours. By the way I try to stay out of Illinois as much as possible. The stated price for the cheap one is with the 60kw battery pack is 62,000 plus, that's the base price, if you can call that cheap. Tesla claims it has a range of 230 miles at 55mph. If you do 55 on I-270 in St. Louis during rush hour you will end up in a pin box. Don’t even think about driving it between St. Louis and Kansas City, 75 to 80mph is the norm. By the way the EPA only gave it a 208 mile range. Using the mobile charger you can only get 31 miles of range per hour of charging. IF you are at home and you spend the money to have a high speed charger installed you can get 62 miles per hour of charging. The high speed charging system can add more than five thousand dollars to you purchase cost plus installation. On the company website they tell you to prep your garage. That is a problem for me because I have an old farm house from the 1800’s and it doesn’t have a garage. While I’m thinking about it where would my daughter in collage plug it in? What about the people who live in an apartment? While Im talking about the need for charging and the “Prep your garage” the model X set to come out in 2014 has gull wing doors. The last house I had and my mother’s house both have low clearance ceilings in the garage. My truck almost didn’t fit in mine and didn’t fit in moms. You wouldn’t be able to get out of the car if you park it in the garage. But that’s where the charger goes. Tesla will go the way of the Fisker. It will just take a little longer and when it does people will blame the people like me who said it would happen and the tax payer will be out hundreds of millions more. [Edited by: johnnyg1200 at 4/7/2013 11:54:23 PM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 12:06:13 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse So show me the math you use to determine that $70,000 (the lowest priced Tesla you can buy) is half of $100,000... [Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 4/6/2013 12:07:10 PM EST]