Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    4:49 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: US politics > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Should the government be encouraging cars that never need gas? Back to Topics
101Speedster
Champion Author
Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Dec 5, 2010 11:08:05 AM

Cars that never need gas. Maybe our tax dollars should be going to solar, wind, and other alternative energy companies than to the major oil companies

>>There are hybrids. There are electric cars that plug into a wall and get their juice from whatever mix the electric company is offering. And then there are electic cars that are charged by solar panels on the roof of one's house. They never need gas, and the power is free after the set-up cost . . .

. . . Asked how long it will take for the PV system to pay for itself, Dickey replies: ". . . the instant I turned my system on." Dickey had been paying $75 a month for electricity. He took a loan out to buy the PV system, and pays $70 a month toward that loan. "My electricity and gasoline bills are now zero, and next year when my loan is paid off, this investment will be paying me probably for the rest of my life. My PV system covers the power for my home and my car. It displaces $90 worth of electricity and over $100 worth of gasoline every month. So my estimate of how long until the system pays for itself is no time at all!"<<

Other links mentioned in the article above:

evnut.com
eaaev.org
pluginamerica.org

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 12/5/2010 11:10:17 AM EST]
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:24,799
Points:3,164,380
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Mar 13, 2015 2:43:02 AM

"Politicians are trying to make electric car owners pay a tax for the number of miles they drive per year. "

Yes, but they haven't done it yet, so the injustice continues.
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Mar 12, 2015 6:35:44 PM

Oh, quit crying. Politicians are trying to make electric car owners pay a tax for the number of miles they drive per year.
AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:28,494
Points:881,830
Joined:Aug 2010
Message Posted: Feb 2, 2015 11:42:27 AM



SoylentGrain, "The day politicians figure out how to tax electric cars, is the day that same tax will be applied to the dirty, filthy, killing us all gasoline vehicles."

Get used to it.

Gasoline engines ain't goin' anywhere for a LONG time, if ever.

Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Feb 2, 2015 11:32:04 AM

"How do electric cars pay road use taxes? Roads are maintained via motor fuel taxes, but electric cars aren't paying their fair share"

Don't you know? Roads build and maintain themselves, you don't need a tax for them...
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,633
Points:29,160
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Feb 2, 2015 9:31:02 AM

"How do electric cars pay road use taxes? Roads are maintained via motor fuel taxes, but electric cars aren't paying their fair share. "

Tax me more! Instead of asking for more road taxes, perhaps, you should be asking for no tax on electric cars and lower taxes on gasoline. The day politicians figure out how to tax electric cars, is the day that same tax will be applied to the dirty, filthy, killing us all gasoline vehicles.
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:24,799
Points:3,164,380
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Feb 2, 2015 9:00:42 AM

Yes, Tesla is the only car company stupid enough to lose money, year after year.
AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:28,494
Points:881,830
Joined:Aug 2010
Message Posted: Feb 1, 2015 2:41:56 PM



101Speedster, "Tesla continues to dominate the electric car market."

That is sort of like saying, "Johnny is the ONLY student in his grade but he DOMINATES every other student in his grade."

ROTFL

ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:24,799
Points:3,164,380
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Feb 1, 2015 2:11:55 PM

How do electric cars pay road use taxes? Roads are maintained via motor fuel taxes, but electric cars aren't paying their fair share.
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Feb 1, 2015 2:08:30 PM

Tesla continues to dominate the electric car market.
TimEum
Champion Author Huntsville

Posts:15,644
Points:3,001,000
Joined:Dec 2005
Message Posted: Dec 22, 2014 1:01:44 AM

I have always been in favor of the government doing things to promote energy independence from foreign sources. This included helping develop cars that did not run on foreign oil/gasoline.

However, there comes a point where the technology has matured to the point that it is commercially viable and can support itself. At that point, the government should bow out and let the free market competition determine the winners and losers -- instead of the government doing it.

The question is -- have we yet reached the point where alternative energy is commercially viable on its own?

I think we are very close.
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Jun 8, 2014 3:29:00 AM

Oil pan 4's tow and charge service will be up and running soon.
Got the 7kw genset, its ready to go and the 18ft long 3 ton trailer is almost done.
Electric car buying fools deserve to be parted from the rest of their money.
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,633
Points:29,160
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Jun 8, 2014 1:19:56 AM

"Wrong answer speedy. The Prius never received a $7500 handout from the taxpyer upon purchase,.... "

But, the Prius did fall under a program for tax credits and long vefore the Volt came on the scene. Furthermore, the Prius plug is under the same tax category as the Volt.
Prius Tax Credit

It's amusing, shockjock, you refer to tax credits as a "handout from the taxpyr" as if it were your money. It's a reasonable bet that someone buying a $60,000 to $100,000 car is paying more than the average person in taxes, even with the tax credit.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jun 7, 2014 7:25:25 PM

"The handout for the Prius has expired because of the number of them sold. When the Prius was new, the "handout" was the same as the one for the Tesla."

Wrong answer speedy. The Prius never received a $7500 handout from the taxpyer upon purchase, neither did Toyota receive hundreds of million so dollars woth of taxpayer backed loans as did Tesla....

BTW, I see that Tesla sales have stalled and/or declined over the last few months...
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Jun 7, 2014 12:58:54 PM

>>The big difference between the prius and any tesla product is the prius is actually affordable and usually doenst come with a huge tax payer hand out.<<

The handout for the Prius has expired because of the number of them sold. When the Prius was new, the "handout" was the same as the one for the Tesla.
teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:20,569
Points:863,325
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: May 8, 2014 1:34:48 PM

We don't have the infrastructure to handle very many electric cars.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: May 8, 2014 1:30:42 PM

Tesla Motors Inc. reported a first-quarter loss and said sales of its Model X sport utility vehicle will be delayed until next year.

This despite the government's "encouragement"...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 5/8/2014 1:32:17 PM EST]
TimEum
Champion Author Huntsville

Posts:15,644
Points:3,001,000
Joined:Dec 2005
Message Posted: Mar 22, 2014 2:22:34 AM

I think that the more we can do to become energy independent and not reliant on foreign oil is not only good economically but good for national security.

My next car will probably be a Toyota Prius, Ford C-Max, or other hybrid.

However, I do not believe the government should provide tax breaks, subsidies, or spend any money to promote or hinder the industry.

Simply allow market forces to work.

If hybrids and/or all electrics make sense they will prosper without government intervention. If they really do make sense, then the government should consider buying some for government transportation use, perhaps even military use.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Mar 12, 2014 5:57:45 PM

"You need to get out of your liberal academia world, Shock, and come join the real world."

The only one living in a fantasy world seems to be you speedy...
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Mar 12, 2014 5:56:32 PM

"How exactly does Shock driving a Prius make him a hypocrite?"

I too would like an answer to that...
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,969
Points:66,935
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Mar 10, 2014 11:32:57 AM

"You are a typical hypocrite driving your little Prius."

How exactly does Shock driving a Prius make him a hypocrite? It would seem just the opposite.
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Mar 10, 2014 10:57:09 AM

The big difference between the prius and any tesla product is the prius is actually affordable and usually doenst come with a huge tax payer hand out.
Where the tesla has the huge tax payer hand out and still isnt affordable.
Any one that buys there stock above $240/share will learn a fool and money are soon parted.
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Mar 10, 2014 10:34:26 AM

You need to get out of your liberal academia world, Shock, and come join the real world. You are a typical hypocrite driving your little Prius.

[Edited by: 101Speedster at 3/10/2014 10:35:11 AM EST]
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 1:18:56 PM

BTW speedy, I see your buddy Obama wants to increase the taxpayer handout from $7500/auto to $10,000/auto.

Your liberal wet dream continues...



Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 1:16:00 PM

How many Tesla (or EV's) do you own Speedy? On that's right, you don't own any, in fact you own a gas guzzler. Why is that?

Don't you believe in putting you money where your mouth is?

For all your praise speedy, Tesla has yet to make a substantial profit of any sort.

Of course you and your Liberal friends think handying over taxpayer funds to keep them in business is a good idea...
AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:28,494
Points:881,830
Joined:Aug 2010
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 11:23:42 AM



Motley Fool was VERY high on Tesla.

Now they have changed their minds and recommend AGAINST buying Tesla stock.

They call the cars 'toys for billionaires'.

;-)

101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Mar 5, 2014 11:15:34 AM

Please tell me, Shock, that you shorted Tesla Motors (TSLA) stock. :)
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Feb 28, 2014 4:58:38 PM

>>Didnt GM buy up part of tesla?<<

Never heard that one before.

Tesla's stock had a bad day today. Tesla's stock is down to $244.81 per share today. ;)
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Feb 28, 2014 4:56:52 PM

That's good to know, Shock.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2014 3:25:53 PM

"I guess this topic is now a dead issue since it is my understanding all of the government tax credits for electric vehicles expired on December 31, 2013."

As usual speedy, you are wrong.

"The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer’s vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009)"

The handout will continue for some time in order to reach the 200,000 sold mile marker...
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2014 3:00:55 PM

Didnt GM buy up part of tesla?
Of course their stock will do well now that they are part of good ole "too big to fail" GM.

A companies stock price is not the loan indicator of a companies health.
Proof? The dot com stock market bubble bursting in the late 90s.
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2014 2:52:23 PM

I guess this topic is now a dead issue since it is my understanding all of the government tax credits for electric vehicles expired on December 31, 2013.

101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2014 2:37:50 PM

Just saw on CNBC that used Tesla Model S's are worth more than new ones.

Also, take note that Tesla Motors stock is at new record highs.
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Jan 15, 2014 12:10:05 PM

Batteries will always remain too expensive so long as fossil fuels don't become insanely expensive.
PopcornPirate
Champion Author New Jersey

Posts:5,960
Points:1,640,950
Joined:Nov 2006
Message Posted: Jan 15, 2014 10:45:01 AM

Battery technology is not there yet.Still too expensive.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 15, 2014 10:35:59 AM

The "affordable" EV that Tesla promised as being "just around the corner" is still at least three years away...

$35,000 EV 3 years away
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 11, 2014 10:30:50 AM

No problem. They should develop a standard icon to denote sarcasm...
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:24,799
Points:3,164,380
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jan 10, 2014 1:04:42 PM

Sorry. It's hard to see sarcasm with just text.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 10, 2014 12:20:22 PM

I was being sarcastic...

AOL is not much of a player today, so I don't see how their opinion has much significance..
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:24,799
Points:3,164,380
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jan 10, 2014 11:46:54 AM

America Online. Used to be significant during the dial-up internet era.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 10, 2014 11:36:14 AM

Who or what is AOL???
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Jan 10, 2014 10:38:54 AM

AOL Bestows Tesla’s Supercharger With Its Top Tech Honor

>>So what makes the Supercharger such an engineering feat, deserving of such an intense name? For one, it charges a ModelS 20 times faster than most public charging stations: 80 percent of the car’s charge can be had in 40 minutes.<<
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Dec 31, 2013 10:30:50 AM

Oh great now tesla will be too big to fail...

But which is the lesser of 2 evils:
Tesla+GM
or
China buys tesla.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 30, 2013 9:17:15 PM

"Heard something the other day on CNBC about GM possibly buying Tesla Motors. I don't think Elon Musk would go for that"

Whats that got to do with the topic: Should the government be encouraging cars that never need gas?
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,756
Points:2,891,755
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Dec 30, 2013 1:51:56 PM

Heard something the other day on CNBC about GM possibly buying Tesla Motors. I don't think Elon Musk would go for that.
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Dec 10, 2013 1:16:06 PM

"Our grid system is badly in need of maintenance and is near capacity. Pointless to waste money encouraging people to further strain it. "

Unless that was the plan all along....
teacher_tim
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:20,569
Points:863,325
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Dec 10, 2013 12:29:15 PM

No, I don't want the government spending one penny of my tax dollars encouraging coal-powered [electric] cars. Our grid system is badly in need of maintenance and is near capacity. Pointless to waste money encouraging people to further strain it.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,969
Points:66,935
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 2:19:04 PM

"What appears impossibly to many is simple to some. It's just a matter of having the skill and desire to develop those ideas."

No, accomplishing some things IS impossible. What seems simple to some, others are smart enough to know cannot be done; if it seems simple to you, but nobody else thinks so, you're probably missing something important. Other ideas are technologically feasible, but are not economically feasible, and have no chance of becoming economically feasible in the near future. Spending time and effort attempting things that violate the laws of physics is a wasting that time and money. Developing technologies that are not economically feasible is also a waste.
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,961
Points:337,330
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 11:25:26 AM

"Sure, but do you know how big and how many more generators you would need in a base camp to be able to provide enough power to recharge a motor pool of vehicles?"

The bases I have been to that generate their own power could handle some electric vehciles being plugged in.
The generator system I set up at my tent city were utlized at between 10% and no more than 60% capacity.
All that power was generated with diesel. So what would be the point of going electric? Its cheaper just to bring a diesel gator from home or go into town and buy a diesel toyota pickup.
SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,633
Points:29,160
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 10:09:23 AM

"That has to be the dumbest thing you've said, SoylentGrain."

I never said morons were going to pave the way to the future. What appears impossibly to many is simple to some. It's just a matter of having the skill and desire to develop those ideas.
HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

Posts:3,969
Points:66,935
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 9:41:04 AM

"What can be accomplished is limitless."

That has to be the dumbest thing you've said, SoylentGrain. Of course there are limits to what can be accomplished; the laws of physics apply, whether you want them to or not, and they place limitations on everything we build. Energy density for batteries, in particular, has limits, which is the one that EVs are running up against.

"Batteries have become more powerful, lighter and cheaper."

...and yet, still cannot compete with petroleum fuels for energy density, nor ICE-powered vehicles for cost.
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:24,952
Points:2,989,840
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 9:28:50 AM

"every unit in the U.S. Army carries generators and tents for their base camps"

Sure, but do you know how big and how many more generators you would need in a base camp to be able to provide enough power to recharge a motor pool of vehicles?

Plus these EV's would not be staying just at base camp, then you have the issue of having to pull these generators to wherever your short ranged EV's need to go away from the camp...

So when you consider there is no fuel savings and you make things much more complicated, what's the point?



[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 12/9/2013 9:30:08 AM EST]
Post a reply Back to Topics