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Author Topic: Legalize Marijuana? Back to Topics
ldheinz

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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2010 5:17:33 AM

This topic is for a discussion on whether or not Marijuana should be legalized.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 8:29:14 PM

RAB "Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is a good idea."

Similarly, just because something is illegal doesn't automatically mean that it's a bad idea either.

Laws are often passed in reaction to lobbyists for self-interested groups.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 8:24:19 PM

<<that was sarcasm for you potheads>>

"Do you drive after a joint or two"

"You (plural) think your drug is safer than the other guys drug. Ask yourselves, Why do I need drugs to get through life?"

Yet another example of the oft seen habit of conservatives taking an example of a very few people and stereotyping all who they don't like with the same brush.

Anybody who's been following the topic would know that most (all?) of the people advocating for marijuana legalization on this thread have said that they don't use it and have no interest in using it. And yet here we get this assumption that we're all "potheads".
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 8:19:03 PM

SemiSteve "And if all those who can partake and still be responsible should be punished because some can not."

You mean like alcohol? The vast majority of people have no problem having a beer on Saturday while watching the game. Or a cocktail by the pool while on holiday.

In fact there's lots of research that having a glass of red wine with dinner is more healthful than being a teetotaler.

Some people here would apparently want to go back to Prohibition and punish everybody just because a very few (less than 1%?) can't handle it.
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RAB2010
All-Star Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 7:35:20 PM

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is a good idea. Maybe if we up the ante for messing up big time. For example, a driver who kills someone while behind the wheel and intoxicated/under the influence is executed if found guilty, first offense. Then sure, legalize pot.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 7:28:20 PM

Tobacco
Alcohol
Marijuana
Meth
Cocaine
Heroin
Vicodin
The list goes on, ad infinitem
Everyone wants what they want.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 7:19:52 PM

"Think of it in similar terms to alcohol."

I do. I often wonder why someone "needs" a drink.

I also wonder why society "needs" another legal intoxicant.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 7:02:39 PM

It is not a matter of need.

Think of it in similar terms to alcohol.

Noboby needs that either.

There are plenty of wonderful things that people enjoy that are not needed.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 6:34:55 PM

"how many are quite well adjusted."

If one is quite well adjusted, why the need to get high?

Do you drive after a joint or two? Do you think that might add to the 30,000 you opine about in another thread. O yeah, pot heads think they drive more carefully after a couple of joints.

I have been recently reminded of those 58,000 who died in Vietnam. A large percentage of our troops were pot and/or Seconal users. Might they have been less cognitive when on patrol?

I get it. You (plural) think your drug is safer than the other guys drug. Ask yourselves, Why do I need drugs to get through life?
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 6:09:58 PM

And of course we have to wonder what percentage of cannabis users really feel that their life sucks; and how many are quite well adjusted. And if all those who can partake and still be responsible should be punished because some can not.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 5:51:04 PM

My life sucks. No sense in trying to improve myself. I will just smoke a couple of doobies. <<that was sarcasm for you potheads>>
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 1:06:19 PM

"Too bad we don't have a more effective drug abuse treatment system"

He has never been arrested. He has been to rehab several times. It sticks for about a year, and then he gets convinced he can handle it, "this time."

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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 12:51:39 PM

Sounds troubling, SE. Too bad we don't have a more effective drug abuse treatment system and instead treat it as a crime with all the attached stigma and profits for thugs.
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jul 27, 2014 12:39:20 PM

Thirty years ago a friend was so stoned he drove his car into a tree with his four year old daughter in the back seat.

Yesterday he was so stoned, he forgot he was supposed to walk her down the aisle.

He (like so many of you) actually thinks he is a responsible person.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2014 8:36:03 AM

What ever happened to Drunk Habib?

This topic could use him.
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 9:42:50 PM

"I'm hardly practicing an "innocence routine" to point out your abusive rhetoric."

Who is complaining ? I have no problem with receiving insults. Only from liberals who pretend to be so innocent of handing them out.

Besides, you deserve them so I don't see your problem.
Once again spare me the innocent liberal goodie two shoes BS.



[Edited by: theTower at 7/25/2014 9:45:55 PM EST]
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 6:08:40 PM

Pay no attention to the emotionless grammatically challenged bot. It regurgitates canned phrases in indecipherable non-sentences.

Freedom means having a choice to decide for oneself whether to enjoy this naturally occurring plant or not. This law takes that freedom away.



[Edited by: SemiSteve at 7/25/2014 6:12:23 PM EST]
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 4:09:42 PM

theTower "Spare me the innocence routine."

Ah, so:

"What part of ... didn't quite get past the vision center and into the brain?" and "Get a freakin grip."

are just terms of endearment?

I'm hardly practicing an "innocence routine" to point out your abusive rhetoric.

But that's what's so amazing about conservatives. They dish out insult after insult after insult, and yet they're always the first ones to complain about it if anybody gives them back in kind.

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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 4:03:23 PM

"ornery, mean s.o.b. you are with people"

Oh please.
Spare me the innocence routine.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 12:44:15 PM

fueluser10 - "If a society as a whole wants to maybe better itself, (That very sentence is why laws were passed in the first place.) then legalizing illegal substances is not a answer.. its a crutch."

Except that all of the available evidence points to the current laws on marijuana harming society rather than bettering it.

So why, exactly, do you support laws that harm society?
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 11:52:04 AM

So just another reiteration of your standard "the law is the law" talking point eh Eff-you?

It appears that you think that lawmakers never make mistakes and are never influenced by political motives to pass a law that isn't really based on facts or in the best interests of society and the nation.

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fueluser10
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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 11:45:50 AM

If a society as a whole wants to maybe better itself, (That very sentence is why laws were passed in the first place.) then legalizing illegal substances is not a answer.. its a crutch.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 7:45:37 AM

You didn't really make it clear that you had any point to make. It's hardly as if it's a secret that some people are mooches. Some of them are even conservatives although you'd never know it from the way conservatives talk about others.

But thanks for making it clear in your response what an ornery, mean s.o.b. you are with people. You're such a credit to the conservative ethos.
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El_Gato_Negro
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Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 8:25:30 AM

.

[Edited by: El_Gato_Negro at 7/24/2014 8:28:31 AM EST]
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theTower
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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 6:26:42 PM

"Do you really think that’s a reason not to legalize marijuana, because a couple of welfare bums might use it?"

Do you really think you need to imply thats what I said?
What part of "I'm all for legalization and everything" didn't quite get past the vision center and into the brain?
I actullly just posted it so I could draw a comparison to the weed moochers that were always around.
I thought the whole thing was funny that in a round about way I still have people mooching weed off of me years after I quit smoking it.
Get a freakin grip.

[Edited by: theTower at 7/23/2014 6:27:58 PM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 5:44:27 PM

theTower - "At least 259 times in the first six months of legalized recreational marijuana in Colorado, beneficiaries used their electronic-benefit transfer (EBT) cards to access public assistance at weed retailers and dispensaries" out of half a million EBT withdrawals in the same period.

And according to the article, some of those "weed retailers and dispensaries" also sell groceries.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 10:32:45 AM

You’re right theTower. I’m sure nobody needed a news article to tell them that some welfare recipients use their money for non-necessities.

If they weren’t using it to buy marijuana, then they’d be buying booze or cigarettes, or perhaps soda, potato chips and Cheezies. Whatever it is that the average taxpayer has a bee in their bonnet about at any given time.

No matter what it is, there will ALWAYS be some people who abuse the system.

But 259 times in 6 months works out to about 43 times a months, or 10 times a week. That could be as little as 2 people buying some weed once a day.

Is it really something to get worked up about?

Do you really think that’s a reason not to legalize marijuana, because a couple of welfare bums might use it?

In the whole scheme of things, there's more important things to worry about.
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 6:27:39 AM

I'm all for legalization and everything, but somehow I kind of new this would happen.
Welfare Cash for Weed in Colorado

"At least 259 times in the first six months of legalized recreational marijuana in Colorado, beneficiaries used their electronic-benefit transfer (EBT) cards to access public assistance at weed retailers and dispensaries, withdrawing a total of $23,608.53 in Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) cash, NRO’s examination found"

Like I used to tell my buds back in the day who always wanted to mooch free weed from me. "Buy your own damn pot"



[Edited by: theTower at 7/23/2014 6:28:49 AM EST]
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:33:17 PM

"A police officer enforcing the law in regards to cannabis is causing someone harm?"

Yes. More than not. Take a hard-working tax-paying family-supporting individual who exercises the freedom to enjoy cannabis and ruin that person's life by causing them significant expense, loss of employment, and incarceration; and yes, harm has been caused not only to their own life, but to others whom may depend on him.

Harm is caused to the person arrested and the family which depends on him. Harm is caused to society to pay the taxes which pay for law enforcement, court proceedings, and incarceration. Harm is caused to those who are not being protected from violent crime by law enforcement because they are busy doing pot busts. Harm is cause to the employer of the busted person because that job will go undone until a suitable replacement can be found.

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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 1:51:23 PM

I don't know if it will ever prevent any diseases PO, but it's possible.

At the very least it will treat diseases and mitigate the suffering of people with chronic and terminal diseases.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 1:49:01 PM

"Making pot, and other drugs, illegal has just made them harder to control."

You can see how well that worked out with Prohibition. It basically created organized crime and resulted in general disrespect for police authority, flouting of the law and a total loss of control over alcohol.

It wasn't until alcohol was re-legalized that it was possible to control it, and then start to make tax money from it.

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PithyOpiner
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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 1:48:01 PM

Sure, legalize it. Maybe we'll find that smoked over a period of time it will prevent some diseases.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 1:30:52 PM

BuzzLOL - ". I've seen too many people's lives ruined by drugs to want anything beyond alcohol legal..."

Making pot, and other drugs, illegal has just made them harder to control.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 8:12:17 AM

Ohio teen dies from caffeine overdose

"An autopsy found that Stiner had a lethal amount of caffeine in his system when he died May 27 (2014) at his home in LaGrange, Ohio, southwest of Cleveland."

So much for that person who insists that marijuana is so much more dangerous than caffeine.

Teens these days are looking for caffeine highs with high caffeine drinks and powders. It can be fatal.

Has anybody heard of a fatal marijuana overdose? Anywhere in history?
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 5:54:34 AM

So you think that making something illegal makes it go away? So nobody has been using marijuana? Besides, pot is milder than alcohol.
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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 5:27:29 AM

. I've seen too many people's lives ruined by drugs to want anything beyond alcohol legal...
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 3:23:58 AM

New questions, but still no answers from FU....
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 12:26:54 AM

fueluser10 - "rjhenn: Are you in this topic forum to Bogart and push answers away that I guess doesn't float your boat of wanted reasoning?"

Accusing others of doing what you do?

"Laws are protecting society, if they were not doing as they were intended then why isn't society in a state of chaos right now?"

If marijuana laws are protecting society, why is it so easy for children to get marijuana? Why are so many people being killed because of the illegal drug trade?

"Going by the words that you used.. A police officer enforcing the law in regards to cannabis is causing someone harm?"

Possibly. You haven't read of people being killed by police when they storm the wrong address on a drug bust?

"How about creating a topic forum that mentions the laws that are hindering society and see what the rest of the website thinks about them."

Isn't this topic about one set of laws that's "hindering" society?

"And if a worker at any job is smoking weed before work or during work, that kind of crap makes sense? GOOD customer service whether medical or retail trumps smoking weed."

No better or worse than being drunk while working.

"People want to have trust in who is taking care of them.. not to walk around with worry in the back of their minds about who might be high and taking care of them while a drug like cannabis affecting them in whatever manner that it might."

If you think that none of those who are "taking care of you" aren't using drugs, including alcohol, you're even more ignorant than you appear to be.

"See the first Pandora's box being opened was legalizing alcohol and its continued affect on society."

You don't seem to be aware that alcohol was legal before Prohibition, or of the problems that Prohibition caused. Much like the problems our current drug laws are causing.
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Panda
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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 12:03:39 PM

FU: “We're about to get into a verbal game of philosophical view points that is going to lead to an extending of another year past the five already on the books about this very topic.”

Agreed, I may need to go back to ignoring your posts.

FU: “The taxation of weed is trumped by the way taxation is spent in the country for it seems to be all part of the same tired math.”

It’s a separate issue. Let’s at least agree to reduce expenses with legalization.

FU: “So the legalization equates to poor choice making? Imagine if the legalization of alcohol didn't take place. Then maybe those poor choices would not have been made in the first place? Or they were made still from the back door or an illegal alcohol transaction in which a poor choice was still hypothetically made.”

No, poor choices will always be made by irresponsible people/parents/kids. There’s another topic: How to promote responsible people/parents/kids.

Your bible tells you that you will live with temptation. True that—temptation abounds. You will not eliminate temptation. You will not eliminate drugs/alcohol by making it illegal. Strong people live with temptation and make responsible choices. Let’s make people strong instead. Let’s educate people and raise kids responsibly.
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fueluser10
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 11:44:30 AM

Panda: We're about to get into a verbal game of philosophical view points that is going to lead to an extending of another year past the five already on the books about this very topic.
The taxation of weed is trumped by the way taxation is spent in the country for it seems to be all part of the same tired math.
So the legalization equates to poor choice making? Imagine if the legalization of alcohol didn't take place. Then maybe those poor choices would not have been made in the first place?
Or they were made still from the back door or an illegal alcohol transaction in which a poor choice was still hypothetically made.
Maybe society deserves better?
Choices made are a matter of individualized perception of how some may or may not choose to view a law.
Being responsible is fairness to oneself while being irresponsible is maybe an individual unfair to oneself.

[Edited by: fueluser10 at 7/20/2014 11:46:00 AM EST]
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Panda
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 11:06:03 AM

FU: “Some are going to waste taxation funds with or without a budget. (IE pork barrel spending.)”

Of course, separate issue—another topic.

FU: “So why not fix the issues that have been lingering around now for decades that need taxation as its constructive backbone?”

Not what I said. I said spend less, i.e. reduce expense by legalization.

FU: “Legalizing alcohol created taxation profits. Poor outcome teenagers binge drinking and people driving on the roads drunk and causing possibly tragic accidents.”

Again—these are poor choices by consumers. Stay up late and pay the price.

You say pro-prohibition, but it is more expensive to go after underground sales and consumption as we see now with underground drug cartel.

FU: “See the first Pandora's box being opened was legalizing alcohol and its continued affect on society. Now we are playing around with the second Pandora's box called legalizing weed and some of us don't think that its not going to have an affect on society as well?”

The temptation will always exist whether it’s legal or illegal. The choice is using it responsibly or irresponsibly. Making or keeping it illegal increases costs to society.

Responsible people/parents/kids make responsible choices, period.

Irresponsible people/parents/kids make irresponsible choices, period.
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fueluser10
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 10:10:13 AM

Panda: Some are going to waste taxation funds with or without a budget. (IE pork barrel spending.)
And no, alcohol and weed taxation isn't going to alone fix the issues that are messing with this country of ours.
So why not fix the issues that have been lingering around now for decades that need taxation as its constructive backbone?
The answers I'm fairly sure are there and available to be indulged in but for some reason we get lip service as an answer instead of a utilized answer taking care of a problem in the first place.
The lesser of two evils. Legalizing alcohol created taxation profits. Poor outcome teenagers binge drinking and people driving on the roads drunk and causing possibly tragic accidents.
Partially legalized weed to maybe fully legalizing weed: Another taxation profit machine device created. The outcome.. lord knows how that is going to work itself out.
That ideal is like putting the train before the railroad tracks and then complaining that the train isn't going fast enough for some as they want it to.
See the first Pandora's box being opened was legalizing alcohol and its continued affect on society.
Now we are playing around with the second Pandora's box called legalizing weed and some of us don't think that its not going to have an affect on society as well?
According to some its already going on.

[Edited by: fueluser10 at 7/20/2014 10:15:50 AM EST]
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Panda
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 9:28:06 AM

FU: “And if a worker at any job is smoking weed before work or during work, that kind of crap makes sense?”

That’s a poor choice Fuel—it has nothing to do with legalizing pot (or legalized alcohol).

WISE choices: Don’t drink and drive, don’t toke on the job, get a good nights rest.

POOR choices: Drink on the job, toke and drive, stay up all night before work.
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Panda
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 9:17:50 AM

FU: “I have said this before.. those whom are responsible for taxation funds maybe ought not waste money via spending more then is being taken in. 17 Trillion plus now and growing in debt. Poor ole alcohol taxation I guess just can't be depended on to make much of a difference now either now can it?”

So why not reduce the budget by eliminating law enforcement and incarceration of dope sales and use?

And why is it that alcohol/hemp sales tax can’t make a difference? You can’t expect one tax to solve the debt problem, but it can offset the cost of enforcing lawful use.
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fueluser10
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 4:07:18 AM

rjhenn: Are you in this topic forum to Bogart and push answers away that I guess doesn't float your boat of wanted reasoning?
You and others seemingly love to push the words "babble," "straw man," and "red herring" like they were topic forum curse words.
Laws are protecting society, if they were not doing as they were intended then why isn't society in a state of chaos right now?
Going by the words that you used.. A police officer enforcing the law in regards to cannabis is causing someone harm?
And do you know what I am benefiting from? The education that I am getting from your words and the ones expressed that are similar to yours.
How about creating a topic forum that mentions the laws that are hindering society and see what the rest of the website thinks about them.
And if a worker at any job is smoking weed before work or during work, that kind of crap makes sense? GOOD customer service whether medical or retail trumps smoking weed.
People want to have trust in who is taking care of them.. not to walk around with worry in the back of their minds about who might be high and taking care of them while a drug like cannabis affecting them in whatever manner that it might.

[Edited by: fueluser10 at 7/20/2014 4:15:04 AM EST]
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jul 20, 2014 1:37:44 AM

fueluser10 - "My answer return answer to your question: I don't have an issue with the law banning weed."

Which doesn't answer anything.

"If I had a teenager who was growing up in the different currents of "trendy" thoughts that are seemingly molding society today via this pocket of thought or that pocket of thought like legalizing cannabis."

Followed by more meaningless babble.

"I have no disagreements with the laws that give society the benefit of doubt when the laws are created to protect society."

Except that, as pointed out many times, those laws aren't protecting society. In fact, they're doing far more harm than good.

Which implies that you somehow benefit from that harm.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 11:41:06 PM

In Colorado demand is significantly exceeding supply. That will change.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 10:37:54 PM

Doctors smoke it. Nurses smoke it. Lawyers smoke it. Judges, too. Many very successful people enjoy it. It is absurd to keep it illegal. It makes a mockery of our justice system to even have to deal with it.
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El_Gato_Negro
Champion Author Miami

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 9:06:28 PM

You know the price before and after on the other side of the country?
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Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 7:12:18 PM

Why isn't the price of weed going down in Colorado? It's legal now.
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fueluser10
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jul 19, 2014 3:23:41 PM

rjhenn: I'm a citizen of society just as you are and nothing more.
My answer return answer to your question: I don't have an issue with the law banning weed.
If I had a teenager who was growing up in the different currents of "trendy" thoughts that are seemingly molding society today via this pocket of thought or that pocket of thought like legalizing cannabis.
And I'd have one train of thought for them. SEE how far you get when you start following in the steps of your friends whom think that they are maybe smarter then their families or the authorities are.
If you want to be fair to yourself then don't fool around with weed.
I have no disagreements with the laws that give society the benefit of doubt when the laws are created to protect society.
Panda: I have said this before.. those whom are responsible for taxation funds maybe ought not waste money via spending more then is being taken in. 17 Trillion plus now and growing in debt. Poor ole alcohol taxation I guess just can't be depended on to make much of a difference now either now can it?

[Edited by: fueluser10 at 7/19/2014 3:29:03 PM EST]
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