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ldheinz

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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2010 5:17:33 AM

This topic is for a discussion on whether or not Marijuana should be legalized.
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rjhenn
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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 6:18:33 PM

Interesting, but I'd still like to see a comparison to the rest of the country. If the trend is down in the entire US, then Colorado's reduction probably has nothing to do with pot.

Which is pretty much what you'd expect anyway.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 4:05:39 PM

Here's a link to the Washington Post article about the reduction in traffic fatalities.
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rjhenn
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 2:25:06 PM

How does the reduction in traffic fatalities in Colorado compare to the rest of the nation?
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 1:08:51 PM

Yes, people high on cannabis are much safer drivers than drunks, probably because they don't drive until they're sober.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 12:42:46 PM

Fewer traffic fatalities?

Every State in the Union should legalize recreational cannabis.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 10:34:19 PM

Colorado: Teen Marijuana Use, Traffic Fatalities Fall Post-Legalization
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 10:37:49 AM

malcm “Prohibition? I'm personally sorry that it did not have the desired result of making persuasively evident the insidious danger inherent in alcoholic beverages.”

If we were to ban everything where there is some sort of “insidious danger” then nobody would ever be able to leave their homes and we'd spend our lives alone living in fear of every little thing.

There's an “insidious danger” just commuting to work every day, whether by car, bike or public transit, but nobody suggests we ban that.

Swimming can be “insidiously dangerour” but most Americans enjoy it.

Even such everyday things as having a BBQ'd steak or eating ice cream present “insidious dangers” but few people refuse to indulge.

Almost everything is dangerous if used inappropriately so the issue should not be banning but it should be knowing how much of a good thing is too much.

There are health benefits to drinking alcohol in moderation. In fact, your intestinal flora produce a small amount of alcohol during digestion.

There are also known health benefits to using marijuana under certain circumstances. Why ddeprive sick people of that?

malcm “Common sense apparently hasn't done the job.”

No, it doesn't. Some people still want to legislate bans instead of using common sense. Prohibition has never, ever worked. As an example prostitution has been prohibited for thousands of years but there are still prostitutes. As long as there is a need or want somebody will always ignore the ban. Regulation always works better though sometimes it's cumbersome.

malcm “Will it be able to prevail over the continual seduction of various drugs? It seems that humans are simply just not that smart.”

The smart ones know that prohibition doesn't work. The not so smart ones still keep wanting to ban things.
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midorishonen
All-Star Author Houston

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 10:33:31 AM

If not marijuana or alcohol, people who want a buzz WILL find an alternative.
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BabeTruth
Champion Author New York

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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 9:02:11 AM

If the "vast majority" is able to enjoy things like alcohol or marijuana responsibly then why should they all be prohibited just because of the irresponsibility or addictions of a few?

Just like everything else, society should deal appropriately with those few who can't handle it and give the "vast majority" the freedom to use or not use as they see fit.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 16, 2014 7:58:01 AM

Legalization has not produced the problems feared.

Anybody who is waiting for marijuana to be legalized in their State to enjoy it obviously has enough restraint to be able to control their usage level adeptly enough to avoid allowing the drug to damage their life.
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malcm
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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 11:15:09 PM

Sadly, 'the "vast" (?) majority still leaves in its wake the very sizeable minority tragically affected by alcohol in various ways. But it seems we're stuck with it, and probably will also soon be hit with increased drug use.
Too bad.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 8:21:29 PM

The vast majority of alcohol drinkers are able to enjoy the drug without having their lives destroyed.

That is why alcohol prohibition failed and why marijuana prohibition is also failing.
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malcm
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 7:55:02 PM

Prohibition? I'm personally sorry that it did not have the desired result of making persuasively evident the insidious danger inherent in alcoholic beverages. Common sense apparently hasn't done the job. Will it be able to prevail over the continual seduction of various drugs? It seems that humans are simply just not that smart.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 15, 2014 2:51:18 PM

Washington: Retail Marijuana Sales Total Nearly $4 Million In First Month
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 12, 2014 4:34:13 PM

US ranks 15th in the world for freedom. Sort of. It is a position we share with 3 other nations: Denmark, Ireland and Mauritus. This means we also share positions 16th, 17th and 18th with them as well.

World Liberty Rankings (click on '2014 rankings' for a download)

That still qualifies us to say we are free.

Legalizing Marijuana would help improve our ranking.

Bahamas 1
Liechtenstein 1
Hong Kong 3
Barbados 4
Dominica 4
New Zealand 6
St. Lucia 6
Australia 8
Switzerland 8
St. Vincent and Grenadines 10
Canada 10
Chili 12
Finland 12
United Kingdom 14
Denmark 15
Ireland 15
Mauritius 15
United States 15

...

North Korea 180
Somnalia 180

[Edited by: SemiSteve at 8/12/2014 4:35:39 PM EST]
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midorishonen
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 12:46:50 PM

I think the word freedom was an appropriate word at the time the country was founded, but I feel now its a tad bit too strong of a word. Maybe something along the lines of," Life, Privilege,and the pursuit of Happiness."
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2014 6:58:36 PM

Brookings Institution on Colorado's Legalization of Marijuana: 'Resounding Success'

There are degrees of freedom, SemiSteve.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2014 8:42:27 AM

It is a lie to say we have freedom in the USA when people are not free to do something of their own choosing which does not affect others.

Because cannabis is illegal we lie to ourselves that we have freedom.

We need to fix that.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 9:51:21 PM

If things should be made illegal if they affect behavior, then it's quite obvious that beer, wine and alcohol would have to be made illegal. No rational person would argue that they don't affect behavior.

But you'd also have to ban tobacco. Have you ever seen anybody deprived of their nicotine fix, shaking and looking nervous?

Or what about coffee? Many people I know say they can't function in the morning without that first cup of coffee so it obviously affects behavior.

Of course that would also include Coca Cola, Pepsi, Red Bull and all sorts of other caffeinated beverages. Oh yeah tea too.

Then there's the caffeine in chocolate bars, hot chocolate. And oh yeah, chocolate ice cream from Baskin Robbins would have to be banned too because of the behavior changing caffeine in it.

So, if affecting behavior is the rationale for prohibiting marijuana, it should be applied across the board and there are a lot of things that would have to be banned, including, I'm sure, things that you use.
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 7:04:01 PM

Yes and no, malcm. Pot is used regardless of whether or not it is legal, and there is no indication that legalizing pot increases the intoxication level of society. In fact, the reverse appears to be true.
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malcm
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 6:35:41 PM

It seems that the discussion here touches on substances that affect behavior, therefor having the potential to adversely affect the common weal. Logical?
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AC-302
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 4:56:54 PM

"Don't criticize it...legalize it.."
-- Peter Tosh
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 1:28:35 PM

Just who determines "need"? What things in your life do I get to decide that you don't "need" and therefore make illegal? That's why things are automatically legal unless they are made illegal.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 10:50:12 AM

Who needs Baskin Robbins?

What with the way obesity is affecting us all through the cost of health care, perhaps we should make such indulgences illegal?

Tou -freaking- che'.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 7:25:26 AM

If you want to live like a religious reclusive Amish that's fine. But don't push to legislate that everybody else has to do the same.

You have your Baskin Robins. Let others have theirs.
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malcm
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 9, 2014 1:36:04 AM

I stand corrected - freedom stands sacrosanct amid the constant striving for protection from the harmful negatives of the many pleasures available to the unwise overuse of liquor, drugs, tobacco, sugar, etc., etc....so - - - "--tell Saint Peter at the Golden Gate that you hate to make him wait, but you gotta have another cigarette - or toke, or shot of booze, or - - "? I'm glad my family is free of most of it --but-- Baskin Robbins, here I come!
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 8:58:26 PM

If the only things that were available were things that people *NEED* then most people have a very austere and boring life, especially if it was some authority that decides what's needed and what's not.

For instance, does anybody *NEED* a Lexus, Mercedes, Cadillac, Escalade, Corvette or whatever other luxury car comes to mind? All people really *NEED* would be a bare bones econobox that could take you from point A to point B.

How about ice cream? Cookies? Potato chips? It could be argued that we don't even *NEED* cheese, butter, eggs or even steak. Just basic protein shakes and some carbohydrate mush would be enough to sustain life.

Relaxing after work, do you *NEED* to see the game on Saturday night, sitting on the couch with a beer? Or does anybody *NEED* wine with dinner, or a scotch or glass of port after it?

Do you *NEED* a radio in your car? Do you even *NEED* a car or could everybody get by with public transit?

That sort of thing should be the kind of questions anybody should ask themselves before they start trying to dismiss legalization of marijuana by saying "Who needs that!?"

No of course we don't *NEED* marijuana. But then, we could just go back to plowing the fields by hand like people did a couple hundred years ago if we only legalize what people *NEED*. After all, it still works for the Amish.

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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 5:32:57 PM

There are a lot of things in this nation that we have but not nobody needs.

That's because it is a not a matter of need.

It is a matter of freedom.
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malcm
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 5:10:50 PM

The stuff seems to have a tendency to make the stupid even more so. Who needs that!?
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theTower
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Aug 8, 2014 2:52:53 PM

Gottta love it.
Pot smokers sue San Diego, say long drives to dispensaries pollute air

Union weed smokers?
Man. I really am regretting the decision to quit smoking weed.

[Edited by: theTower at 8/8/2014 2:53:05 PM EST]
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midorishonen
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Message Posted: Aug 7, 2014 5:30:11 PM

BT: I don't see any reason that constitutes a ban on marijuana other than "just because", but that's not a sound reason.

Current and some past presidents have smoked marijuana*, so obviously it doesn't hamper your life.

*Note: Not drawing the conclusion that smoking marijuana can lead to presidency of the United States.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 7, 2014 12:14:07 PM

You’re probably right about what’s happening with the youths midorishonen.

It stands to reason that at least SOME would drift to Colorado thinking that just because they grew marijuana in the apartment they shared with their friends that they’d qualify to get jobs in the Colorado “grass fields”.

But then, isn’t that often the way with the young? They have a well-deserved reputation for not thinking things through completely or logically.

Are there more unemployed as a result of the laws or have they just moved there from elsewhere? Or are they just using the new laws in Colorado as a convenient excuse?

But consider, what is the greater good? To have youths temporarily unemployed at maybe a slightly higher level than usual (I’d need to see some real stats to agree that there really are more unemployed) or to have them locked up in jail getting a criminal record that will harm their chances for employment for the rest of their lives?

I know the standard response is that using marijuana in the first place is a choice, but realistically, it’s a choice that a possible majority of people risk in their youth. And so far nobody has yet managed to produce any evidence that its very use harms anybody other than the user.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 7, 2014 11:33:24 AM

Florida will be voting on medical marijuana this fall.

Amendment 2 would make it legal in the State of Florida to purchase possess and use marijuana for medical reasons with a prescription.

About time!

Definitely vote YES on 2...

Looks like it has very strong support:

" Eighty-eight percent of Florida voters support legalizing medical marijuana, compared with just 10 percent who oppose it. And 71 percent of the state’s voters said they would support having a medical marijuana dispensary in the town they live."

Politico Poll Conducted July 17-21, 2014
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midorishonen
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 5:42:55 PM

BT: Well, ages 18-25 are the hardest hit demographic in the job market. I believe they were looking into a new avenue of employment and didn't know that they wouldn't be qualified for the jobs opening in the marijuana market(very appealing employment aspects if your that age and in need of work) and now they are left in limbo, don't know what else to do now. The bigger picture here to me, is not the marijuana,but the youths that need employment.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 3:17:55 PM

As for your misquote that I couldn't find the source quickly, I suggest you reread what I posted.

It has nothing to do with how short or long a time it takes to find something on the subject, it's whether or not I find the same article you're referring to. You risk looking very foolish if I find another article that fits the vague parameters you gave but says the exact opposite of what you claimed.

But hey. You don't care. You said so yourself.

So why are you wasting your time here? You should be out "having your life".

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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 3:12:41 PM

STArrow "Debate can be fun when you care, I don't, and therefore don't need to convince anyone."

Then why do you bother to post an opinion that you won't/can't back up?

And why come here several times over several days?

Your statements don't ring true.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 2:21:06 PM

From the NYT ediotorial linked by idh:

"The social costs of the marijuana laws are vast. There were 658,000 arrests for marijuana possession in 2012, according to F.B.I. figures, compared with 256,000 for cocaine, heroin and their derivatives. Even worse, the result is racist, falling disproportionately on young black men, ruining their lives and creating new generations of career criminals.

There is honest debate among scientists about the health effects of marijuana, but we believe that the evidence is overwhelming that addiction and dependence are relatively minor problems, especially compared with alcohol and tobacco. Moderate use of marijuana does not appear to pose a risk for otherwise healthy adults. Claims that marijuana is a gateway to more dangerous drugs are as fanciful as the “Reefer Madness” images of murder, rape and suicide."

Hard to argue with that. Every point is absolutely valid.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 1:50:49 PM

ldheinz: "Is that the one I posted on the 28th, SemiSteve? "

Ahh, yes. Missed that. Thanks. I'll check it out.
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 1:49:50 PM

StArrow68: "Our society doesn't need more legal drugs."

--Need is not a requirement. Our society has lots of things we don't need. It is a matter of freedom.
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StArrow68
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 1:39:21 PM

Debate can be fun when you care, I don't, and therefore don't need to convince anyone. I doubt that I've voted for very many winners in CA since Prop 13, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy living here with opinions that may not match the majority.
As for your contention that searching for a specific topic, a study of youth homeless in Colorado, and can't find the source quickly, well, so be it. Enjoy what you drive, we do.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 1:25:20 PM

StArrow68 - "I don't have to explain why to hold my opinion."

ldheinz "But that's part of debating. If you want to convince someone else to change their opinion, reasons come in handy."

Exactly ldheinz.

Taking such an attitude "I don't have to explain why to hold my opinion." basically tells us that even you don't think your opinion is worth spending any time on.

As far as how long it might have taken me to find YOUR article among the hundreds of hits from a google search, and reading through each one to see if it is indeed the one you had in mind, and still not knowing for sure, don't make me laugh. My response to you took far less time than searching would. And the more you double down on your stance, the more it shows the poverty of it.
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 1:20:35 PM

StArrow68 - "Our society doesn't need more legal drugs."

How does making them illegal improve them? Does that change them somehow?

StArrow68 - "I don't have to explain why to hold my opinion."

But that's part of debating. If you want to convince someone else to change their opinion, reasons come in handy.
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StArrow68
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 1:13:50 PM

It might possibly have taken less time to find the article than to type your last post.
Nice thing about a free country, I don't have to explain why to hold my opinion. Have a nice day.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 12:09:59 PM

It's precisely because I DO have a life that I'm not going to waste my time searching through pages and pages of google returns trying to figure out exactly which article a person had in mind StArrow. It's not just a dozen links that can be found but often hundreds or even thousands.

If you don't think something you want to present is worth taking another 30 seconds to post the link to, then why should anybody else think it's worth their spending more time trying to track it down?

Anybody can post something and say it came from a news article, but without a link to the article or some other identification, then how are we to know that it isn't just made up?

Asking your readers to find out which article you had in mind, without saying exactly which one it was, is an exercise in stupidity. Googling based on the scanty information you gave results can result in many articles that can be contradictory to what you said. Without knowing for sure if it's the right article, they could make the original poster look foolish.

So far you still haven't told us anything more than just that your opinion is "no", without any clear indication of why.
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StArrow68
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 11:27:28 AM

Silence might also indicate that I have a life :) When I can search Google News and find a dozen links, I figure anyone who isn't trying to play dumb might also be able to find the articles and possibly even the source. I didn't suggest anything but that others might find it interesting.
Our society doesn't need more legal drugs. IMO
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ldheinz
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 11:23:12 AM

Is that the one I posted on the 28th, SemiSteve?
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SemiSteve
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 9:07:39 AM

The New York Times editorialized on Sunday that marijuana should be legalized. -need to find link.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 8:22:28 AM

ok. Fair enough midorishonen.

So do you have a comment on the contents of the article?
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midorishonen
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Message Posted: Aug 6, 2014 2:20:20 AM

BT: I only put that link on here because StArrow68 said he couldn't or wouldn't. Just so anyone interested could know what he was referring to. I never said I agreed with it.
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BabeTruth
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Message Posted: Aug 5, 2014 4:19:45 PM

I note that neither StArrow68 nor midorishonen has risen to the challenge to support their contention that marijuana use in Colorado is the cause of more homeless youth.

Could it be that they now realize they were wrong?

Silence definitely indicates agreement in this case.
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