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Author Topic: SOLAR PANELS: Do you have any on your house? Back to Topics
101Speedster

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Ventura

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2008 12:12:22 PM

Got solar? Got wind?

Do you think that the government should be subsidizing the cost of solar panels for homeowners that want them on their houses? How about windmills?

If you have them, how many do you have? Do they cover all of your electricity usage?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 1:23:37 PM

IDHeinz
You are still having trouble reading?
KWh Kilowatt Hour.. measure by which the power companies charge for power.
Youu keep saying 70,000. I have told you many times that is since my inverter was replaced. First system installed, inverter malfunctioned and was replaced. System ungraded requiring a larger inverter. At each of these times the meters start at Zero. Too tough to understand?
BTW Your claims contradict each other...where do you hide your eyeballs????
BTW, Claim to have paid $21,000 for the original system. I did not. I showed in my entries that I paid $21,000.00 both systems.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 1:08:29 PM

Chiefaz - "Be careful IDHeinz don't believe in KWh!"

Why shouldn't I believe in kwh? Because you don't know what the term even means?

Chiefaz, your numbers keep changing to fit whatever you want to say at the moment. You said that you originally paid $21,000, but then you added more panels to make the total $29,000. You just said that you have gotten a total of 70,000 kwh out of your system, and assuming net cost metering, since Phoenix pays $0.12/kwh, that means that you have received a total of $8400 back, and since the system is 8 years old you probably won't get back your initial investment over the life of the system.

Or to state it more clearly, you claim that you have received $250/month for 8 years, or $24,000, but you also claim that you have received $70,000 kwh, which is only $8400. Your claims contradict each other. Please explain this.

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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 12:51:16 PM

"Those panels are capable of producing 8.18 Kwh per hour. That usually equates to a daily output of 40 to 60 Kwh depending on sun and length of day."

If this were true, then over an 8 year period you should have produced 117,000 - 175,000 Kwh, yet now you claim that you just went past the 70,000 Kwh point.

This is what I mean when I say your obviously made up numbers just don't add up. Every time you spew a new set of bogus numbers out, there is no correlation with your previous made up figures...
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 12:43:30 PM

Unless you are paying 35 cents/Kwh for electricty, your bogus numbers just don't add up Chief...
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 12:35:33 PM

Troller-Diesel
Be careful IDHeinz don't believe in KWh!
Your statement is that I have it wrong. Check the entry again. I said KWh. BTW. How much did you make at night? You are joking right. Or do we have another comedian on here?


[Edited by: Chiefaz at 8/25/2014 12:37:44 PM EST]
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 12:31:28 PM

IDHeinz
Where do you get your numbers.
1. I paid $21,000 for my system.
2. I have had my system for 8 years.
3. I replaced a $250.00 a month with a zero power bill.
4. 96 months times $250.00 comes out to $24,000.00.
5. As I have said, I'm in the moneymaking phase of the system.
Anymore weird notions you have?
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Troller_Diesel
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 11:30:47 AM

70,000 Kw today? Wow. Impressive.

How much overnight?

BTW, electricity is usually measured in kWh...



[Edited by: Troller_Diesel at 8/25/2014 11:31:43 AM EST]
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2014 10:38:49 AM

I checked with Solar City a while back. They said I would have a negative payback at my house.

Chiefaz - "To All You Nay Sayers... 70,000 KWh today. Eat your heart out. "

My heart's fine as is. So assuming net cost metering you have generated $8400 worth of power with your $29,000 system. You haven't even covered depreciation on your solar installation. Congratulations.

Chiefaz - "I refuse to get into the corner with all you naysayers. Would not be fun with all you negatives."

I hope you're having fun. You are sure paying enough for the privilege.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 11:27:40 PM

FlyBoy
I refuse to get into the corner with all you naysayers. Would not be fun with all you negatives.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 11:24:51 PM

Daruma
Check to see if you have a Solar City in your area. They install the system for free and lease it to you. If the solar won't save you money they won't install it. Best way to start. Good Luck
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 11:22:36 PM

To All You Nay Sayers... 70,000 KWh today. Eat your heart out.
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Daruma
Rookie Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 9:57:58 PM

I'd try solar and wind power generation if I could afford them. I was just reading about a passive solar home that stays 73 degrees without a furnace or air conditioning. It would be nice to reduce or totally eliminate utility bills.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 7:16:35 PM

Oh so adult there Chief. NOT!!!!!

If you cant hold up your end of the conversation without resorting to childish language maybe you need to go sit in the corner with the rest of the kiddies and take a time out or something.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 12:02:08 PM

Chiefaz - "All the data is in my entries. If you can't read it get your 5 year old to read it to you. "

No need. Apparently the 5 year old is the one who made up the data.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 11:28:25 AM

"they call me a liberal"

Chief, you are one who advocates and takes advantage of government handouts.
You sound like a liberal to me...
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2014 11:26:44 AM

"I don't have to prove aanything"

Because you given nothing but anecdoatla evidence which myself and several others have proven to be inaccurate or plain misinformation. Your data just doesn't add up....
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 3:26:21 PM

Look Chief you can call me lots of things. You can even call me a yeoman striker or a snipe but calling me a liberal is just too nasty and unkind.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 2:44:42 PM

Shock
Thank you, you said it. I don't have to prove aanything. All the data is in my entries. If you can't read it get your 5 year old to read it to you.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 2:41:48 PM

FLyBoy
Read the entries, they call me a liberal. So man up and take it?
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mweyant
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 11:25:07 AM

This has suddenly become an issue for me--I won't take up your time by telling you the reasons why.

How does property tax fit in here? I just read that in Maryland, property tax credits are available for 3 years. Trying to find good data on that.

I don't want them. My electricity bill is not too horrible. I will keep researching, but if anyone has any hard data on property tax increases, I'd love to see it. I will post any if I find and not just for Maryland).

[Edited by: mweyant at 8/23/2014 11:26:06 AM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 10:07:39 AM

Shock - talk about vile unkind cussin at someone . For this Solar enamored person to call me a liberal. Are there no depths he will not sink to?

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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 8:55:59 AM

"You still can't read. Go back and read my entries the past couple of weeks.You still can't read. Go back and read my entries the past couple of weeks."

I have... And?

"Oh, I don't have to prove anything to you"

That's simply because you have nothing to prove. Everything you have put out has simply proven to be untrue...

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wbacon
Champion Author Philadelphia

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2014 5:16:23 AM

no
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 11:43:49 PM

Shock
You still can't read. Go back and read my entries the past couple of weeks.
And Oh, I don't have to prove anything to you. I'm comfortable in my skin!
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 2:03:49 PM

"You speak vile I return the compliment"

What vile words would that be chief?

"Over the past couple of weeks I have placed a myriad of information on this
subject"

Nothing that can be confirmed nor that adds up when examined...

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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 1:07:29 PM

Shock
You speak vile I return the compliment.
Over the past couple of weeks I have placed a myriad of information on this
subject. But in spite of that, all you can say is you lie, you lie.
You and your ilk said I could not cover a $250.00 power bill with my system. I posted information showing that I only had to replace 40% of that. The rest is fees and Taxes that go away if you don't have a power bill. No comments only more accusations.
I'm told I'm stupid for not knowing the KWh doesn't exist. Yet everything I
have suggests the opposite. No comments but more accusations,
It's getting tiresome listing to you Liberals trying to wear down this conservative.
Know what, after 31.5 years in the military, I don't wear down.
Call me a liar and I'll call you something worse.
Read the entries posted in the past couple of weeks and educate yourself.


[Edited by: Chiefaz at 8/22/2014 1:12:00 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 8:54:54 AM

"I have given you all the proof you need"

But you've given no proof what so ever, plus it's been shown several times be various people that your figures just don't compute...

"Shock
you are one dumb s.o.b."

Now who's the one making vial accusations Chief? Once again, you are the one in obvious error...
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 4:01:16 AM

Chiefaz - "Have not noticed any heat loss at night."

How would you notice it? Can you see in infrared?

Chiefaz - "Any water drawn is replaced by hot water from the copper tubes."

But at night, the copper tubes are cold. Since hot water rises, the water from the tank rises into the copper tubes where it heats the pipes using heat from the water heater. You are paying to heat the tank, and therefore the outdoors at night.

Chiefaz - "Since this happens at night very little water is drawn. "

But the water doesn't stay put, it moves by itself into the copper tubes, even if you aren't drawing any water.

[Edited by: ldheinz at 8/22/2014 4:05:02 AM EST]
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2014 2:18:43 AM

Flyboy
Another liberal heard from. If you can't read and fathom the reams of information that I have posted, join Shock in detention after class.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 10:58:18 PM

Chiefaz I also do not follow your figures and reasoning. However when you cannot carry on a conversation without cursing at others maybe its time you just go away and let the adults here discuss stuff.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 10:41:47 PM

Shock
you are one dumb s.o.b.
No amount is enough for you. You can't even keep your thoughts and statements on an even keel. I have given you all the proof you need. I am not going to give you any more. All I can say is, Get Lost.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 10:38:26 PM

IDHeinz
My system does not have panels. It has 5, 8 gallon copper tubes. This is heated by the sun thru glass. This way the heat is retained longer.
Have not noticed any heat loss at night.
Any water drawn is replaced by hot water from the copper tubes. Since this happens at night very little water is drawn.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 7:52:27 PM

"You said Federal Taxpayers don't save!"

They don't....

"You keep clamoring for proof"

That's because your figures are inconsistant and change to suit your argument...

"You prove me wrong since I am the one with the system and know a helluva lot more about the process"

And yet your claims are completely onconsistant with real values.

"What do you provide, only vile words and accusations"

What vile words would that be chief?

"You are the one that needs to present facts"

I have, on numerous occasions. Even did the math for you....

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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 6:17:02 PM

Chiefaz, do you have a nighttime disconnect for your solar water heater? Solar water heaters are notorious for removing heat from the tank to heat the panels at night,
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 1:45:25 PM

Oilpan4
No, I am not a liberal. My last vote for a Dumocrat was 1960, JFK.
For your information That's over 50 years ago. (so you won't have to look it up).
I have a clothes dryer in my garage vented to the SSW side of my house.
I do my laundry in the early morning when the temperature is lower than later.
I installed a solar hot water booster system. When on. the cold water side of my system goes through the solar system to the cold water side of the heater. This keeps my heater from ever going on, since the operation of a hot water heater is controlled by the cold water input.
I also installed a hot water heater that has the controls on he top so you
can control it without unscrewing the little door. My heater doesn't come on unless it's needed. Then my solar power takes care of it.
I don't just helter skelter install things without research. About like what you should do before you open your mouth.

[Edited by: Chiefaz at 8/21/2014 1:48:13 PM EST]
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 1:33:11 PM

Shock
You are one stubborn cuss. You said Federal Taxpayers don't save!
I repeated it and asked you what you were drinking?
You keep clamoring for proof but only provide statements. You prove me wrong since I am the one with the system and know a helluva lot more about the process. I even listed the bill as produced by APS.
What do you provide, only vile words and accusations. You are the one that needs to present facts and not just damning something you don't like.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 11:19:48 AM

"The people that save money because of my solar system are all payers of
taxes of some sort"

You've yet to provide proof of this allegation. All that you have shown is that "Federal Taxpayers don't save"...

"APS has 1.2 million users. If the fee was $5.00 that would be a savings of $6 million dollars a month."

I see a bunch of speculation, no proof that this is actually what is happening...
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 10:44:01 AM

Shock
Out of context again!
The people that save money because of my solar system are all payers of
taxes of some sort.
My statement says "I save them money by keeping the power company from using their emergency generators and charging a fee for the service.
APS has 1.2 million users. If the fee was $5.00 that would be a savings of $6 million dollars a month.
Even you would be in the number.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 8:53:34 AM

"Federal Taxpayers don't save"

Exactly my point Chief. You've ripped off the Federal taxpayer, and judging by the price you pay for conventional electricity, you certainly are not saving the power user base of Arizona any money either...
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 1:49:47 AM

"Downside with running a supply pipe on the roof to the inlet side of the heater, besides the fact that it might freeze, is that it would only heat the volume of water contained by the pipe. Far short of the volume of most heaters."

A 40 foot length of 1.5 inch pipe can hold over 3 gallons of water. I figure the attic would hold 60 to 80 feet of pipe just making one loop.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 12:14:38 AM

Shock
You are a hoot. Federal Taxpayers don't save. You are on what???
The only non-federal taxpayers are the 47%. They don't need solar as we pay everything for them
The people that I save money for are all taxpayers because the 47% also save the fees.
Wake up and smell what it is you are smoking.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 21, 2014 12:00:08 AM

"you should also paint the pipe flat black to absorb more heat. Also, if you slant the pipe you won't need to use the compressed air. Just plumb in a bypass and open the valves and let the attic pipe drain".

If the pipe is pvc it will be painted black and wont worry about the air. The air will be for if I use steel pipe, to get water out to prevent some rusting.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 5:35:04 PM

Freezing is a concern here. Happens sometimes. I've read about systems that use a heat exchanger and run antifreeze in the panel.

But a local guru says that is overkill for this area. All you need to do is run pipes to/from the collector and put a small solar-powered recirc pump in line; and include valves so you can drain the system if a freeze is possible, of if out of town.

That sounds easy simple and low-cost enough for me.

Downside with running a supply pipe on the roof to the inlet side of the heater, besides the fact that it might freeze, is that it would only heat the volume of water contained by the pipe. Far short of the volume of most heaters.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 5:29:08 PM

oilpan4, you should also paint the pipe flat black to absorb more heat. Also, if you slant the pipe you won't need to use the compressed air. Just plumb in a bypass and open the valves and let the attic pipe drain.

Another thing that I did was to install water saver shower heads and a 50 gallon water heater. The hot water is endless. It even gets hotter as you shower.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 5:15:12 PM

"I am considering placing a solar hot water system on my house. Would be nice to just flip that breaker off and save 25% on my power bill."

You don't even have to do that. For very little cost you can eliminate most of that for at least part of the year. The cheapest way I can think of to employ solar water heating is to put a length of pipe that runs the length of the roof ridge line, just making one loop up in the attic. Then plumb that into the water heater, it will preheat the water from 100'F to 120'F or more in summer.

But the way I do it the system will need to be drained and purged with compressed air in the fall so it doesn't freeze and burst. I have a large collection of quarter turn ball valves. Using 4 or 5 wont cost anything or put much of a dent into my valve collection.

Problem with solar water heating tubes is they have a much higher failure rate than PV and the solar tubes are only freeze rated down to like 17'F.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 12:37:32 PM

I set up a clothesline in my laundry room. I've got a dryer, but in the wintertime it gets way too dry, so adding the humidity helps make the house more comfortable while not throwing away heated air. It's less so in the summer, though.

Solar water heaters are quite popular in Puerto Rico.
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SemiSteve
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 12:12:15 PM

What a great idea on clothes drying, oilpan4.

Bravo!

I am considering placing a solar hot water system on my house. Would be nice to just flip that breaker off and save 25% on my power bill.

SHW systems can cost less than $1000 to install for DIY.

If it saves $40 per month that would pay for itself in about two years.

There after the savings are all mine.

And the reduction of demand on the grid is instant.

Along with the reduction of my carbon footprint; and the decrease in power pricing due to less demand.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 11:56:43 AM

Since I bet chief is one of those wasteful liberals that does not have a clothes line and runs his clothes dryer in the middle of the day, here is one for you.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar-heating/3671-using-attic-heat-dry-clothes-help-cool-house.html

I was suprized to see how much energy the clothes dryer indirectly uses by drawing 100 to 150 cfm of out side air into your house as it discharges the hot air to the outside, causing your home AC to have to cool that incoming air. Its almost like opening a small window.

Since cheif like to say I am wasteful, I did not even own or use a clothes dryer from 2006 to 2011 (I had a front loader washing machine). When I finely got one, I ended up with 2. One is out side in a shed, I use during the summer and the other one is inside, vented to the inside, used only during winter.

[Edited by: oilpan4 at 8/20/2014 12:01:25 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 10:34:54 AM

It may save the consumers (and even that is debatable, got anything to prove your statement?) but it doesn't save the Federal taxpayers a thing Chief.

You just continue to live in your delusional world with your made up numbers and let the rest of us deal with reality...

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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Aug 20, 2014 6:18:57 AM

Shock
You don't read so good. Solar systems allow the power companies to go through summer without having to turn on their expensive emergency power plants to handle the summer overloads. That saves the taxpayer, my neighbors to save millions of dollars a year in saved fees. APS has 1.2 million customers. The fee say $5.00 per household for summer fees $6 million a month. Looks like you can't stomach success.
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