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Author Topic: SOLAR PANELS: Do you have any on your house? Back to Topics
101Speedster

Champion Author
Ventura

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2008 12:12:22 PM

Got solar? Got wind?

Do you think that the government should be subsidizing the cost of solar panels for homeowners that want them on their houses? How about windmills?

If you have them, how many do you have? Do they cover all of your electricity usage?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 3:06:20 PM

Look at all that black smoke.
That's how much smoke you get from setting 4 to 6 truck tires on fire.
Great for the environment.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 1:11:49 PM



This is classic!

ROTFL

The solar panels on the roof of the Green Party almost burned their building and City Hall down!

ROTFL

BONFIRE OF INSANITIES: SOLAR PANELS START FIRE AT GREEN PARTY-RUN HOVE TOWN HALL

"A large fire occurred yesterday at Hove Town Hall caused by a faulty solar panel on the roof of the building. No-one was hurt. Locals have been quick to take aim at the Green party with jibes over their record in office at Brighton and Hove city council, which owns the building."

ROTFL

More evidence that liberalism is truly a mental disorder.

SMH

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2015 6:06:48 PM

Speedy what that said is the solar panels did NOT ADD VALUE to the buyers of the home. In fact they detracted so much value that they owners had to remove them to sell the home.
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101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2015 3:03:28 PM

>>A house a few doors down from me had to tear off their solar collectors in order to sell the house<<

Makes no sense to take away value from your house and throw away free electricity.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Mar 9, 2015 9:51:10 AM

Think This Winter Was Cold? Try It with Only Green Energy
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2015 12:27:40 PM

Ultra-High Efficiency Solar Cells Move to the Rooftop
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2015 11:59:23 AM

A house a few doors down from me had to tear off their solar collectors in order to sell the house - buyers just weren't interested in a house with those monstrosities on the roof.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2015 11:10:46 AM

More data to show "solar" is just a scam
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>>>Amid claims that solar companies have misled homeowners, the Arizona Senate is considering legislation that would require them to disclose the true costs of rooftop solar panels.

Republican state Sen. Debbie Lesko claimed in an op-ed for the Arizona Capitol Times on Friday that she decided to introduce the bill after hearing from a couple who was told that installing solar panels would increase the value of their home by $25,000, only to find out that potential buyers consider them a liability.

“A solar company talked them into leasing solar panels for 20 years, even though they are in their 80s,” Lesko pointed out, adding that numerous lawmakers and watchdog groups “have raised serious questions about the financing agreements and sales practices of some of the roof-top solar companies.”
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“I can tell you that in Arizona, as people now go to sell their homes after entering into these long-term agreements, a lot are in for a surprise,” he added. “Some have already received that surprise when they realized they have to pay off [the panels] or have a lien put on their house.”<<<
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Just more proof that the solar craze is nothing more than a scam and all subsidies should be stopped immediately. If it cant stand on its own merits then let it die a disgusting death.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2015 8:20:48 AM

Why 'Baking Powder' Increases Efficiency of Plastic Solar Cells
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2015 12:47:25 PM

Just another indication that chieffy's so called savings resemble a pile of old horse feed.
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>>>California’s commercial and industrial energy costs are about 37% higher than the national average in the continental United States due to Governor Brown’s 33% sustainable energy mandate. And with rates 41% to 46% higher in San Diego County than the national average, local investment and job growth are being hammered.<<<
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Chieffy - for one who professes to be so learned about the electrical system you seem to be rather ignorant of how it really works. Regardless of if yo have your solar toy the peaking stations are required to be there and operational. So the so called "investment" in your toys has no effect --- except to make power more expensive for everyone.

Sure chieffy - they "invested" in your hobby out of the goodness of their hearts. Hey I have a bridge to sell you too - its a great "investment".

By all means let us know when you feel it is cost effective to go off grid and prove that your neighbors dont subsidize your hobby.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2015 11:22:18 AM

Flyboob
No monies given to me by my neighbor. Money was invested by Pinnacle West Capital Corp, an investment fund. APS did not put a cent in. Parent company did the investing.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2015 11:19:25 AM

Flyboob
So stupid, so unlearned.
The high peak generators are there but do not have to be used. Therefor, no fee for all power users.
So against something that you are blinded to it!
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2015 11:10:17 AM

A1 - I saw the sarcasm and just wanted to set the record straight for anyone who had any doubts.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2015 8:18:48 AM

"So let's see I produce a product that helps lower my neighbors power bill"

Actually, you solar panels increase your neighbors power bill by adding the cost of the solar panels that your power company helped you buy to their bill..
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 11:42:19 PM



ChiefAZ, "Also your comment about me stealing taxpayer money, the real thieves of taxpayer money are your neighbors in the Twin City ghetto that you live in.
Go to work and make your own money."

Ahhh yes, you couldn't even go a few sentences without making a cheap personal attack.

Now if I was a liberal, I would report you and DEMAND that the mods BANNED you.

But lucky for you, I am a caring, tolerant conservative who, unlike progressive liberals, believes in free speech and that people should be allowed to say what they want.

Even when it proves them stupid.

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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 11:39:19 PM



flyboy, "A1 - you know the answer to that - there are no subsidies involved. 100% of the cost of my planes I pay for."

I DID know the answer to that.

I am sorry that I did not make my sarcasm clear.

I was supporting you and ridiculing the know it all libs around here.

flyboy, VERY good laying out all the facts for ChiefAZ - not that he will pay any attention to them.

Let's go flying!

;-)



[Edited by: AnotherOne at 1/27/2015 11:39:51 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 11:25:22 PM

A1 - you know the answer to that - there are no subsidies involved. 100% of the cost of my planes I pay for.

Now chiffey brings up some good concepts - the flying field - part is on city owned land and part is on state land. We pay rent on the state land. Here in Utah its called SITLA land. The land is owned by the state and is managed to produce profits to pay for schools. On their land you pay market values for the rent - no discounts at all. On the city land we have that under a use agreement with the city that stipulates that we bear all the expenses to build and operate it and it is open to the public - IE a recreation facility open to all not just the members of our club. The onley stipulation is all fliers must belong to AMA - part of the membership to AMA is that the organization provided liability insurance to the city so they are safe in case someone is injured at the field. Zero city dollars were expended on the field chiffey. Zero city dollars are expended on maintain the field.

Chiffey our club paid to build and maintain the flying field - no tax dollars are involved. The land before we were given permission to use it was raw land and not being used by the city. The access road we paid to build and surface - no tax dollars. The surface streets and highways that everyone uses for personal use have no connection to my hobby chieffy. They are paid for by property taxes, license fees and fuel taxes - just as all roads are. As far as my hobby bieng a source of irritation - I dont see how as the nearest house is over five miles away from the flying field. Now do yo have any other silly comments that show yo know nothing about that which you speak.

Now as far as yo saving people money - not hardly. the peaking load generators still have to be there and are still used. The transmission lines to wheel the power from the baseload and peaking load plants are still there chieffy - your solar system makes zero difference as it is not dependable enough to actually be part of the grid except by accident and the electric companies would just as soon you didn't have it as it is more of a problem to then than an asset. The only reason you were given - yes given - the money from your neighbors is because a bunch of liberals forced them to give you money using the force of law.

Chieffy - when you go "off grid" and actually cut the ties to the system and the support everyone else pays for then come back and talk to us. Be sure to tell us how cheap it is to operate "off grid".
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 9:45:36 PM

AnotherWhat
Unless he flies his RC's in his back yard he is costing the people of Utah money to support his Hobby. Does he drive to his place of flying? Does he fly them in someone's farm land or a park. Well, people pay to support the park in support of his hobby. Does his hobby help his neighbors, I don't think so. So let's see I produce a product that helps lower my neighbors power bill by eliminating the need for high cost generators to meet high use demands. Savings my neighbors fees for the high usage times.
My "hobby" as you may want to call it is beneficial to my neighbors. His hobby is irritable to his neighbors.
Also your comment about me stealing taxpayer money, the real thieves of taxpayer money are your neighbors in the Twin City ghetto that you live in.
Go to work and make your own money.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 2:50:11 PM



flyboy, "chieffy - the difference is ---- I freely admit my hobby of building and flying RC airplanes is a hobby"

How much has the government PAID you in "rebates" [money STOLEN from other taxpayers] for your RC airplanes like is the case with ChiefAZ's phony solar panels?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 12:58:47 PM

chieffy - the difference is ---- I freely admit my hobby of building and flying RC airplanes is a hobby and that it does not have a positive monetary return. Read closely now chieffy - it is a hobby - something done for fun.

Now you on the other hand insist that your hobby, or chosen toys, actually is a cost effective investment of money and you keep insisting that you did it to save money. Yet you cannot show us where what your saying makes economic sense. The figures of what you say the total cost is and your total investment and the net return and a host of other economic indicators keep shifting each time you post some information. You also seem to have a difficult time understanding how returns on investments really work.

So if it makes you really really happy continue to try and insult others who disbelieve your unfounded or unproven claims.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 10:55:48 AM

AnotherWhat
Oh yea tit for tat?
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 10:54:19 AM

EZpleaseExit
Guarantees are useless. Does it come with a warranty? Bet you don't even know the different?
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 10:49:57 AM

Flyboob
For a grown man that plays with toys and pays for them you have no room to speak. How much are your toys costing you and what is their return.
Lives in a cave and plays with toys. Are you the 10 year old?
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2015 10:47:16 AM

AnotherWhat
Go bury your head in the snow. It isn't spring time yet. We'll let you know what the ground hog sys?
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 11:08:48 PM

Actually, the spewing of insults sounds more like a 10-year-old than a retired person.
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 11:08:12 PM

Actually, the spewing of insults sounds more like a 10-year-old than a retired person.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 10:53:18 PM

Chiffey if you really think your solar hobby toy is still going to be providing all of your electrical needs far into the future your entitled to your dreams.

As to whether my mutual funds will keep pace and exceed inflation - well no one knows the future for sure but based on the past hundred plus years of history they should maintain their value plus. Does your solar toy have a 100-150+ year track record of being "economic" to own? You still haven't proven to most of us here that even with all the subsidies (that is your neighbors and us paying for your toys) you receive that your toys are a good investment - especially when you look at things like opportunity cost.

My prediction is that after a sufficient number of folks come up with these solar things on their roofs the power companies will start demanding that they pay their fair share of the cost of building and maintaining the grid - which you dont now. Then they will only pay you the wholesale cost of power - IE what they pay for it when they have to buy it. Then the rest of us people who are really conservatives will soon demand that the rest of us stop subsidizing your hobbies and then you will find the true cost of your toys - they wont be worth it.

But in the meantime I will still have sufficient income from the funds I put in actual investments to buy the power I use and have a ton of money left over.

[Edited by: flyboyUT at 1/26/2015 10:55:40 PM EST]
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 10:13:32 PM



ChiefAZ, "Another What
And the people running these topics should outlaw dishonest individuals such as you from being allowed to muck up these pages!"

Ahhh yes.

One personal attack after another after another.

Day after day.

Week after week.

And yet you cannot answer simple questions.

Why is that?

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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 10:03:26 PM

Chief, by chance to you also have that newfangled magnet molecule alignment device on the fuel line of your vehicle? I'll bet that you would be saving thousands of dollars per year simply by buying that very cheap device that they sell for only $299.99. It also comes with a lifetime guarantee!
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 9:16:43 PM

Another What
And the people running these topics should outlaw dishonest individuals such as you from being allowed to muck up these pages!
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 9:13:14 PM

Anotherwhat
Warrantied for 25 years to produce 80% of original power. Built to last 50 years.
What, you don't believe your car salesman when he tells you your car is guaranteed for 10 years. Only if you have a warranty?
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 8:21:37 PM



ChiefAZ, "Flyboob
At the end of 30 years I will have a solar system that still provides me with most of the electricity that I use."

Well, there is another outrageous claim about your solar system.

That it will still be working fine after thirty years!

Is that what the salesman told you? And you bought it hook line and sinker.

WOW!

btw, HAPPY 80th BIRTHDAY.

There ought to be a law against dishonest solar salesmen taking adavantage of and scamming the elderly!

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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 8:14:39 PM

Flyboob
At the end of 30 years I will have a solar system that still provides me with most of the electricity that I use. Scratch that, the electricity that my wife uses. That is unless I live to be 110! After O-Vomit gets his way, how much is your Mutual Funds going to be worth?
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 8:10:56 PM

Another what
I don't know what you are thinking but then neither do you.
Being from the twin cities, are you a L,M,N or O?
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 7:39:00 PM



SE3.5, "Do they work under three feet of snow?"

ROTFL

Surely you jest.

They don't even work economically under "three feet of sunshine"!

ROTFL
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SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 7:04:53 PM

"SOLAR PANELS: Do you have any on your house?"

Do they work under three feet of snow?

[Edited by: SE3.5 at 1/26/2015 7:05:06 PM EST]
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 6:24:13 PM

Well chieffy I'm not sure what you mean by your use of the term "annuity". According to this definition I dont own any at all.
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However I do own shares of about ten or so mutual funds that are managed by one company. I used to own funds that were managed by more than one company but I consolidated it all into one company. The funds range from an aggressive growth fund to bond funds in an attempt to get a balanced set of investments to reduce risk but still get a good overall return. As I said I have been getting an acceptable net return over the last 30+ years of about 7-8% after taxes. Now I will have to pay more taxes as I take the money out of the funds but that is another story.

Regardless of what yo call them insurance annuities are not what I would consider a good investment but to each their own I say.

chieffy - do some math - at the end of thirty years what will you have left? Are you saving money and investing it because of all your so called free power? What is the real rate of return of your total investment in your solar hobby? Let me give you a hint chieffy - your so called investment in solar is one sick puppy compared to real investments.
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 5:53:22 PM



ChiefAZ, "Another what
No. you were deliberately trying to sound like a RedNeck"

Ahhhhhhhh!

So now you know what I am THINKING!

ROTFL

Tell me what I am thinking NOW!

OK, it is a few seconds later, tell me what I am thinking NOW!

ROTFL

Chief AZ, "So shut up and get the your [sic] know what off this topic!"

ROTFL

Now try to get back to the subject, ChiefAZ.

Answer the question that all of us have been asking you that you keep trying to avoid .... what was the TOTAL cost of your system? And who paid what amounts?

We will wait (again) for your answer.

Why do you refuse to answer simple questions? Other than that a truthful answer would show how WRONG you are about everything about your system.

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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 5:06:41 PM

Another what
No. you were deliberately trying to sound like a RedNeck and since I was born southern I take umbrage with your stupid attempt. Only if you speak like that all the time, which I doubt, is that kind of trash acceptable.
So shut up and get the your know what off this topic!
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 3:36:41 PM



ChiefAZ, "Bad take on a southern accent. Just makes you sound stupid."

ROTFL

So that was a 'southern' accent?

I wonder who speaks that?

I was simply using someone ELSE's grammar.

And you think it 'sounds STUPID'!

ROTFL

Thanks for admitting it.

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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 3:04:37 PM

Another one
Bad take on a southern accent. Just makes you sound stupid. Oh, I'm sorry, we already deduced that didn't we.
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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 3:01:54 PM

EZEXITPLease
"you bonehead' can't you read. Pinnacle West Capital Corporation is the parent of APS. Sooooooooooooooooooooo what's your point.
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billjohnson
All-Star Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 2:54:52 PM

i rent so i do not.
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EZExit
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 12:52:51 PM

Chief: <<<"You talk of annuities. I have those, remember I sold them. I have 3 and my wife has 4. I also have a SEP IRA from my insurance office days. You probably has some, so you say. Ever read the portfolios? Almost all annuities has stock in solar companies. A lot of them has stock in Pinnacle West Capital Corporation. Are you sure you haven't invested money in my solar system. If so, why are you knocking your investments and telling people not to invest in them?">>>

--You bonehead, Pinnacle West is the parent company of your electric utility, APS! ROFL!
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 12:07:07 PM



Yeah, "Flyboob", "You probably has some."

I know I 'has' some!

"Almost all annuities has stock in solar companies. A lot of them has stock in Pinnacle West Capital Corporation."

Yeah!

Every companies 'has' summa that there!

SMH

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Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2015 11:59:35 AM

Flyboob
You talk of annuities. I have those, remember I sold them. I have 3 and my wife has 4. I also have a SEP IRA from my insurance office days. You probably has some, so you say. Ever read the portfolios? Almost all annuities has stock in solar companies. A lot of them has stock in Pinnacle West Capital Corporation. Are you sure you haven't invested money in my solar system. If so, why are you knocking your investments and telling people not to invest in them?
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AnotherOne
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 5:12:31 PM



flyboy, "But you have decided to take your money and the money of others and "invest" it in a system that will need to be replaced in a few years. Economically it does not make sense to me."

And that is progressive liberalism summed up, isn't it?

Steal OTHER people's money to advance some false cockamamie scheme that doesn't have a snowball's chance of succeeding and line your own pockets with it.

It is what liberal's are all about!

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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 5:11:22 PM

Sounds like you're doing OK, then, flyboyUT. I have a lot of computers that run up my electric bill a lot.

In any case, solar panels are about the LAST thing anyone should do to save money on their electric bill. By far the cheapest and most effective thing is a tube of caulk. Plug any air leaks that you can find. A drafty house is an expensive house to heat and cool.
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flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 4:37:07 PM

chiffey did yo follow the math in my last post.

Take $55,000 that may or may not have been your "investment" in your solar system. Invest it in a good growth and yield mutual fund. Historically they have returned about 8% but for the sake of argument lets use a return of 6.5%. That will yield roughly $3,575 per year. Now even you should be able to divide 12 into that and see something close to $300.

But that really isnt too accurate as my investments over the last 35+years have returned (after taxes) about 7-8%. So for the sake of argument lets use 7.5%. Then your monthly return starts to look like $344.

But Chiffey if you were to take what your system actually cost based on your previous posts of somewhere around $80,000 plus than at the 7.5% return you would get about $500 per month return ----- and still keep the $80,000.

But you have decided to take your money and the money of others and "invest" it in a system that will need to be replaced in a few years. Economically it does not make sense to me.

Personally I would rather pay my small monthly power bill and take the money I could have "invested" in solar power and keep on putting it in the mutual funds.

Do some math chiffey and see who will have more of an estate in another 30 years. Here chieffy - this might help you understand what I am saying.....
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>>>During the 20th century the stock market returned an average of 10.4% a year. Just $1,000 invested in 1900 would be worth over $19.8 million by the end of 1999. At 15% average return per year, it only takes 30 years to turn $15,000 to $1 million.<<<
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Using the calculator in this link chieffy lets set a time from say 1980 to present and adjust the outcome for the effects of inflation and assume you will reinvest the dividends.
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>>>

Compound Annual Growth Rate (Annualized Return)

A problem with talking about average investment returns is that there is real ambiguity about what people mean by "average". For example, if you had an investment that went up 100% one year and then came down 50% the next, you certainly wouldn't say that you had an average return of 25% = (100% - 50%)/2, because your principal is back where it started: your real annualized gain is zero.

In this example, the 25% is the simple average, or "arithmetic mean". The zero percent that you really got is the "geometric mean", also called the "annualized return", or the "CAGR" for Compound Annual Growth Rate.

Volatile investments are frequently stated in terms of the simple average, rather than the CAGR that you actually get. (Bad news: the CAGR is smaller.)



CAGR of the Stock Market

This calculator lets you find the annualized growth rate of the S&P 500 over the date range you specify; you'll find that the CAGR is usually about a percent or two less than the simple average. <<<
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So chiffey I plug a date range of 1/1/80 to 12/31/14 into it and tell it to adjust for inflation and include dividends and it spits out a "True CAGR" of 8.35% and says that each dollar invested in 1/1/80 is worth about $16.56 now. But that isnt the real story if you had been investing say a fixed or increasing (inflation adjusted) amount each month. Then suddenly your "solar investment" begins to really look sick.

But by all means dont believe me - go ask a financial advisor who you trust....
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Chiefaz
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 11:29:46 AM

Flyboob
Gee, you have a $70.00 electric bill. My first bill in this house was $365.00 for 1 month. That's over 5 times what you say your average is.
Oh, tell me your magic investment that nets over $300.00 per month. I have a little set aside, I may be interested?
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flyboyUT
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2015 10:29:19 AM

idheinz - believe it or not I actually keep track of my electric, water and gas usage by month and year in a spreadsheet I use. It started as kind of a joke but I have kept it up for about 8 years now. My average electric use per month has been about 722 KWH for that length of time. It will bounce around month to month with the highest being in the heat of the summer and the least being in the winter. But when its cooler here the gas goes up to offset the reduced electric so it all balances out. My average electric bill is less than $70. That is before they add in all the "fees, taxes, surcharges and assessments " etc. Where I live you pay for your electric and water and all other stuff except gas on one bill. FYI - I have already added extra insulation in the attic - did it 20 years ago.

I continually chuckle at chiffey who says I need to "invest" 30-80 thousand dollars (depending on what day he is trying to tell us how much his system cost) to save 70 bucks a month. He just will not accept that people can take that same (lets average it out) 55K and invest it and get a net monthly return of in excess of 300 bucks. So he really does think it makes sense to lose over 300 a month to pay a 70 buck bill.
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