Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    6:19 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: US politics > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: SOLAR PANELS: Do you have any on your house? Back to Topics
101Speedster

Champion Author
Ventura

Posts:31,572
Points:2,841,855
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Oct 19, 2008 12:12:22 PM

Got solar? Got wind?

Do you think that the government should be subsidizing the cost of solar panels for homeowners that want them on their houses? How about windmills?

If you have them, how many do you have? Do they cover all of your electricity usage?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,238
Points:326,410
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 4:02:00 PM

"Off-grid living is largely beyond the reach of most modern families. "

Over on wind-sun.com they are not diluted believers (like chief). The experts say "to go completely off grid" they say "take your highest power bill dollar amount and add three zeros to the end of that number and that should be your budget starting point".
So if your highest power bill during the summer is $125 then to go totally off grid you need to budget for $125,000 and hopefully you should have some left over.
That covers solar panels, batteries, inverts, backup generators, better insolation for your home labor for all that and so on.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,238
Points:326,410
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 3:54:43 PM

"You are talking about large solar farms. We are talking about roof top systems."

When you were crying about having to pay $5 a month and wanting your free entitlements you were talking about roof top.

"None of your dire predictions apply."

Oh really? I want to know how you figure that?

So, how do roof top solar panels get around "sunshine at any spot is always intermittent and often unreliable"?
Or " to be a standalone energy supplier, PV solar needs batteries to cover those times when solar is not producing – about 75% of the time under ideal cloudless skies"
And what do you do about the huge "fluctuations in supply on the reliable and essential parts of the grid."

That is 3 out of 5, a far cry from none.
I guess you don't know very much about solar power generation.
Profile Pic
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:72,613
Points:2,885,070
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 12:38:02 PM

Chief, the illustration pointed out that a one meter solar panel might power 2 light bulbs, but only for the center of the day when the sun is high. Some days are cloudy. A power system based on solar would necessarily need a back up system.

Today's low-voltage uses, such as computers and LED lights, could make good use of rooftop solar, but still it would be intermittent. Great to have the lights on in the middle of the day. Home-based solar installations might reduce a person's grid-electric use somewhat, but they are going to need to still be on the grid. Off-grid living is largely beyond the reach of most modern families.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 12:11:32 PM

Actually, most of the issues that 175 addressed applies to local roof top solar...

Most notably the first, second and fourth...
Profile Pic
Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

Posts:3,322
Points:1,297,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 12:03:18 PM

17Sat7AM
You are talking about large solar farms. We are talking about roof top systems. None of your dire predictions apply.
Profile Pic
flyboyUT
Champion Author Utah

Posts:27,021
Points:1,372,190
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 11:56:34 AM

Yeash I75 - kiss your local Forester - they need lovin too!
Profile Pic
I75at7AM
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:72,613
Points:2,885,070
Joined:Feb 2006
Message Posted: Jul 25, 2014 11:52:37 AM

Here is an Op-Ed piece about the Five Fatal Flaws of Solar Energy

"Firstly, sunshine at any spot is always intermittent and often unreliable."

"Secondly, to be a standalone energy supplier, PV solar needs batteries to cover those times when solar is not producing – about 75% of the time under ideal cloudless skies."

"Thirdly, solar energy is very dilute, so huge areas of land are needed to collect industrial quantities of energy. --In the real rotating world, where sunshine reaches usable intensity for only about 25% of the time, the best-located panel (one meter square) would have a capacity factor of about 17%. It would receive 170 watts of energy – not quite 2 light bulbs."

"The fourth fatal flaw of solar energy is the pernicious effect of the dramatic fluctuations in supply on the reliable and essential parts of the grid."

"Fifthly, large-scale solar power will create environmental damage over large areas of land. Solar collectors may manage to convert only about 10% of the sun’s energy into electricity, the rest being reflected or turned into heat. But the whole solar spectrum is blocked, thus robbing 100% of the life-giving sunshine from the ground underneath, creating a man-made solar desert."

It might be easier to use genetic devices (trees and crop plants) to convert solar energy into carbohydrate and cellulose, which Man can collect, process, transport, store, and burn as needed to release the solar energy.
Using native genetic collection devices does not harm the land nor other native species of plants and animals, and in fact enhances the local environment.

Plant trees and prosper. Invest in chainsaw makers.

Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,238
Points:326,410
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 11:21:23 PM

"Future solar installation will pay $5 a month for the maintenance of the grid. Far cry from what they wanted. "

So now what solar power people are expecting something for nothing.
Ahhh, yes liberals and their entitlement.
Guess what, if you want a power grid that can send power both ways you need a smart grid or we can just go back to only the power company generating power with conventional power plants.
Profile Pic
oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:13,238
Points:326,410
Joined:Jul 2006
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 11:10:25 PM

"My electric bill without solar panels is usually under $50/month..."

I don't have solar panels and my yearly average power bill was $44/mo......
Want to know what I used, a little thing called conservation and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars.
Profile Pic
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

Posts:22,105
Points:3,617,390
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 7:39:50 PM

"Why did it suck when you had solar panels, SE3.5?"

The yearly maintenance and repairs cost more than my electricity savings. I could never recover my initial investment, because every year I went more in the hole.
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 5:33:08 PM

ldheinz - "At what cost? Over how much time?"

You still haven't answered the question. You just keep avoiding answering it.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 11:12:51 AM

"Old story and we won."
Sure, because it's not enough for people with Solar Panels to suck off the taxpayer teat, they have to be allowed to use infrastructure without paying for it...
Profile Pic
Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

Posts:3,322
Points:1,297,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2014 10:38:29 AM

Buzzlol
Old story and we won. All current solar owners are grandfathered in for 30 years so no extra charge. Future solar installation will pay $5 a month for the maintenance of the grid. Far cry from what they wanted.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 2:49:03 PM

"My electric bill without solar panels is usually under $50/month..."

Doubtful that you would be able to say the same if you lived in Arizona...

If you DO live in Arizona, and have solar panels, there is a simple solution, get off the grid...
Profile Pic
BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:3,464
Points:48,825
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 2:31:36 PM

.
< "Arizona Public Service Co. is proposing charging customers who install rooftop solar panels $50 to $100 or more a month to cover the cost of maintaining the power grid." >

. My electric bill without solar panels is usually under $50/month...

[Edited by: BuzzLOL at 7/23/2014 2:32:47 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 1:41:14 PM

A better question is how much did it cost the taxpayer...
Profile Pic
Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

Posts:3,322
Points:1,297,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Jul 23, 2014 11:13:20 AM

Shock
You don't seem to know anything about power production. In the summer the power companies use to have to run high cost generators to keep up with the usage. You were billed for this with an addition to your power bill.
While we solar users are saving money so are you because the power companies no longer have to run those systems. This saves you money too.
You can thank me later.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:47:35 PM

"At what cost?"

A better question is how much did it cost the taxpayer...
Profile Pic
Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

Posts:3,322
Points:1,297,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Jul 22, 2014 1:40:21 PM

Idheinz
My system has paid for its self and continues to give me free power. My first system was installed in Oct 2006, increased output in Oct 2009. ( added more panels. The 68,000 KWh was produced since the upgrade. Had to change the size of the inverter. An average of just over 1,500 KWh per month. I get all my power free and get a check for my excess at Christmas. Course its Christmas every month when I get my power bill or lack thereof.
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jul 21, 2014 3:46:13 AM

At what cost? Over how much time?

[Edited by: ldheinz at 7/21/2014 3:46:44 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Chiefaz
Champion Author Phoenix

Posts:3,322
Points:1,297,685
Joined:Sep 2008
Message Posted: Jul 18, 2014 1:15:20 PM

Over 68,000 KWh produced with over 1,700 KWh in my bank.
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jun 26, 2014 9:17:32 AM

Yes, and that article didn't even mention the class warfare that Germany's energy policy is causing. Only rich land owners can get the huge solar panel subsidies, which the poor pay for in their electric bills.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jun 26, 2014 8:41:54 AM

Germany's Green Energy Disaster

Yet further reasons for why we need to get rid of the Federal handouts for "green" energy...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 6/26/2014 8:43:09 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jun 7, 2014 7:21:42 PM

Probably because it cost hoime far more to apy for solar panels then it did to pay his electric bill...
Profile Pic
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,572
Points:2,841,855
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Jun 7, 2014 12:42:56 PM

Why did it suck when you had solar panels, SE3.5?
Profile Pic
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

Posts:22,105
Points:3,617,390
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jun 5, 2014 5:25:54 PM

"Got solar?"

I did when I lived in Illinois. It sucked. Buyers thought it sucked, too.
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jun 5, 2014 4:59:40 PM

The Illinois Democrats have been attempting to bankrupt the state for years, and this is just one more part of it.

BTW, I looked into getting solar panels years ago, and Solar City estimated that my payback time was infinite. They couldn't pay for themselves in their lifetime, and that was an estimate from Solar City.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jun 5, 2014 8:49:31 AM

Sure, Illinois liberals have not yet caused a complete financial meltdown, so they push for these new initiatives with money they don't have, then whine about how if they don't make the huge "temporary" income tax increase permanent, then the state will be forced into financial ruin.

Notice, once again, that without huge taxpayer handouts, solar power just would not exist on any kind of scale...
Profile Pic
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:23,166
Points:2,273,800
Joined:Sep 2004
Message Posted: Jun 5, 2014 8:29:17 AM

Illinois is looking to pass legislation to jump start solar panel subsidy

Profile Pic
Tru2psu2
Champion Author Winston-Salem

Posts:17,212
Points:1,986,465
Joined:Feb 2004
Message Posted: Jun 5, 2014 6:33:50 AM

Eventually would like to
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jun 5, 2014 4:50:20 AM

I'm curious about how illegals avoid paying sales taxes at stores. Are they issued special tax exemption cards for use at the drive up window? How do they get their withholding back?

And, of course, what this has to do with solar panels...
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jun 4, 2014 11:39:23 PM

You have to stop listening to those voices in your head speedy, because I never mentioned anything about illegals...

Sorry if I stepped on your liberal toes by pointing out the truth about your socialistic state...
Profile Pic
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,572
Points:2,841,855
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Jun 4, 2014 11:33:42 PM

Let me apologize now, Shock, if there are any ILLEGAL aliens in California that have to spend extra money on taxes so that others can have solar panels on their homes.

Wait, ILLEGALS don't pay taxes. Us taxpayers are forced by our politicians to give handouts to those breaking the laws of this country.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: May 17, 2014 11:46:21 AM

"Where I live, they just make sense"

Sure, where you live they believe it's OK to take money from one set of people and give it to another....

Without industrial handouts, forced on the industry by the liberals, and the handouts from both state and federal taxpayers, solar panels would not make economic sense...
Profile Pic
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,572
Points:2,841,855
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: May 17, 2014 11:20:24 AM

Where I live, they just make sense.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Mar 27, 2014 1:48:20 PM

Some people claim that Solar can compete with conventional energy sources. If so why is Solar City complaining that it will go out of buisness without taxpayer handouts?

California-based SolarCity, one of the nation’s largest solar system contractors, has admitted in Securities and Exchange Commission filings that any curtailment of tax dollars would spell doom. Nearly a third of the cost of its equipment has been paid for by the taxpayer.
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Mar 16, 2014 5:19:50 AM

Shockjock, the Ivanpah solar collector site is about 30 miles SW of Las Vegas, and is directly along a path from Las Vegas to Los Angeles. It may be remote for people, but it's in a really bad place for airplanes.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Mar 15, 2014 8:55:11 PM

Pilots flying both private and commercial aircraft near Las Vegas have filed complaints abut possible unsafe conditions caused by a large solar power plant in the Mojave Desert
Profile Pic
101Speedster
Champion Author Ventura

Posts:31,572
Points:2,841,855
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Feb 10, 2014 2:48:32 PM

Rebates or tax credits?
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Feb 2, 2014 11:48:31 AM

If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is, especially when it comes to solar...

Solar power company head facing dozens of felony charges

"Michael Fricker sat stone-faced in Pima County Superior Court. He's facing a total of 35 felony counts. The charges including fraud, theft, money laundering, and illegal control of an enterprise.

The News 4 Tucson Investigators were first contacted by his alleged victims in November, 2012.

Residents in Marana's Sunflower community complained that the company failed to deliver on the promise of rebates for the solar systems installed on their rooftops.

One of those alleged victims, Carol Girvan, tells the News 4 Tucson Investigators she was promised a rebate of more than $15,000 for the purchase a solar system."
Profile Pic
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

Posts:22,105
Points:3,617,390
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jan 25, 2014 2:17:20 PM

"warmer climate makes them more cost effective"

Warm & sunny climate makes everything "solar" more effective.
Profile Pic
ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:22,629
Points:2,806,005
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jan 25, 2014 1:27:18 PM

The last time that I was in Puerto Rico many of the apartments had solar water heaters. Perhaps the warmer climate makes them more cost effective there.
Profile Pic
SE3.5
Champion Author Indianapolis

Posts:22,105
Points:3,617,390
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jan 25, 2014 11:31:44 AM

I had two panels on a previous home to assist my hot water heater. The upkeep (maintenance and repairs) cost more than the decrease in my electric bill. I gave up.

Of course my initial investment was a total loss.

[Edited by: SE3.5 at 1/25/2014 11:31:32 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 10:38:40 AM

Could Renewable energy be the death knell for the German industrial economy?
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 17, 2014 10:55:01 AM

Solar City wants you to bet on them being able to continue to rape the taxpayer for handouts

""Valuing it is in the eye of the beholder," said Raymond James' analyst Pavel Molchanov, who noted that SolarCity has yet to turn a profit.
"The business model relies heavily on the investment tax credit - without that, it would not work," he said."



[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 1/17/2014 10:56:34 AM EST]
Profile Pic
HEDGEHOGS
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:1,606
Points:41,600
Joined:Mar 2007
Message Posted: Jan 14, 2014 10:46:49 AM

no
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 14, 2014 9:15:22 AM

Sounds like a high price to pay to be environmentally correct.
Profile Pic
Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

Posts:2,482
Points:135,945
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jan 14, 2014 12:41:30 AM

To be environmentally correct.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,117
Points:2,632,990
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Jan 13, 2014 9:38:17 AM

3 times? Why did they do it?
Profile Pic
Cirdan
Champion Author Nevada

Posts:2,482
Points:135,945
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Jan 12, 2014 2:04:10 PM

Not at home, but we have them at work. Only costs 3 times what it would to buy electricity from local utility.
Post a reply Back to Topics