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taximan007 Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:10,066 Points:1,708,240 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2007 12:22:44 AM Ignore taximan007 Report Abuse From Hamilton Reed of The Michigan Sportsman 1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns. 2. Washington DC’s low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis’ high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control. 3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics." 4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991. 5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid. 6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals. 7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you. 8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet. 9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense — give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125). 10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns and Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery. 11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for spinal paralysis, a computer programmer for Y2K problems, and Sarah Brady [or Sheena Duncan, Adele Kirsten, Peter Storey, etc.] for firearms expertise. 12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1917. 13. The National Guard, funded by the federal government, occupying property leased to the federal government, using weapons owned by the federal government, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a state militia. 14. These phrases," right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people," all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state. 15. We don't need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution. 16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense, which is why the army has millions of them. 17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles," because they are military weapons. 18. The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, et cetera, is responsible for recent school shootings,compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40's, 50's and 60's, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, et cetera 19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, and the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity. 20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy. 21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20. 22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears." 23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed. 24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows. 25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves. 26. A self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon." 27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted. 28. The right of online pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights. 29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands. 30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution. 31. Charlton Heston as president of the NRA is a shill who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit. 32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition. 33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too. 34. Police officers, who qualify with their duty weapons once or twice a year, have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain. 35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection. 36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun. 37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, which is why the police need them but "civilians" do not. 38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good. 39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon. 40. When Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands," they don't mean you. Really.

taximan007

Champion Author
Indianapolis

Posts:10,066
Points:1,708,240
Joined:May 2006

Message Posted: Apr 19, 2007 12:22:44 AM

Ignore taximan007 Report Abuse

From Hamilton Reed of The Michigan Sportsman

1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC’s low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis’ high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994, are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense — give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p. 125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns and Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for spinal paralysis, a computer programmer for Y2K problems, and Sarah Brady [or Sheena Duncan, Adele Kirsten, Peter Storey, etc.] for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created by an act of Congress in 1917.

13. The National Guard, funded by the federal government, occupying property leased to the federal government, using weapons owned by the federal government, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a state militia.

14. These phrases," right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumeration's herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people," all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" refers to the state.

15. We don't need guns against an oppressive government, because the Constitution has internal safeguards, but we should ban and seize all guns, thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense, which is why the army has millions of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they serve no military purpose, and private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles," because they are military weapons.

18. The ready availability of guns today, with waiting periods, background checks, fingerprinting, government forms, et cetera, is responsible for recent school shootings,compared to the lack of school shootings in the 40's, 50's and 60's, which resulted from the availability of guns at hardware stores, surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, mail order, et cetera

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, and the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. A self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of online pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston as president of the NRA is a shill who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers, who qualify with their duty weapons once or twice a year, have some special Jedi-like mastery over handguns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people, which is why the police need them but "civilians" do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. When Handgun Control, Inc., says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands," they don't mean you. Really.

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kiatoindos Veteran Author Chicago Posts:425 Points:81,130 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: May 10, 2013 7:19:46 PM Ignore kiatoindos Report Abuse Get real I'm from Chicago we have some of toughest gun laws in the country and the most murders!
HotRod10 Champion Author Wyoming Posts:2,275 Points:40,450 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: May 9, 2013 4:44:37 PM Ignore HotRod10 Report Abuse "The Nazi Party never seized all the guns from private ownership. In fact, they actually relaxed gun laws in every area except one: Jews were not allowed to manufacture or sell/purchase firearms and ammunition." "Looks like the Nazis wanted more people to own guns. Good thing we know better." In 1938, the Nazis "relaxed" some of the restrictions from the 1928 law, but there were no big changes. The government still retained full control over who could legally own guns, and it didn't work well for the ones who were banned from gun ownership - millions of Jews were slaughtered within the next 7 years. Yeah Marty, "we know better"...sure we do.
Edger Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:40,217 Points:2,472,085 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: May 3, 2013 2:17:57 PM Ignore Edger Report Abuse 46,455 Background Checks For Gun Purchases Each Day Under Obama That's over 70 million background checks under Obama. Makes you wonder how many are first time buyers.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,444 Points:2,229,925 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 26, 2013 12:13:42 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Now the 103 million rounds they mention for 2012 sounds reasonable, for "an average 1300-1600 rounds per DHS officer". That works out to one range session a month with about 150 rounds each session. Especially if that range session includes live tactical training.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,053 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 11:17:12 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse I see not much has changed in the gun control landscape. Just a bunch of stupid ideas being presented by people totally ignorant of firearms and everything related to them.
Edger Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:40,217 Points:2,472,085 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 6:13:43 PM Ignore Edger Report Abuse Wow! All the ammo DHS is buying. 70,000 DHS officers are currently authorized to use weapons? I hope these aren't the pat down types found at your local airport. DHS Denies Ammo Purchases Aimed at Civilians [Edited by: Edger at 4/25/2013 6:15:14 PM EST]
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 8:58:24 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Another hypocrit . >>>Funny thing about this new policy of Pier Morgan's--I mean his not wanting to bring politics into America's latest mass-murder spree. Because in the past, whenever the CNN host was able to exploit dead innocents and sanctimoniously demand the government restrict our Second Amendment civil rights, he has done so without shame or conscience. So if I understand Morgan, this particular murder spree is not about "the gun" or "access to guns" or "wild West America," but about "deranged criminality." And, this particular murder spree, unlike all the others since Morgan crossed the pond, "has nothing to do with politics." I wonder what makes this particular murder spree earn a special Piers Morgan exemption? Could it be because what's being reported as the alleged murderer's manifesto not only mentions Piers Morgan by name, but says, "Mr. Morgan … I want you to know that I agree with you 100% on enacting stricter firearm laws[.]" Apparently, when the suspected mass-murderer is a Piers Morgan fan, his crimes win a Piers Morgan exemption.<<< Sure does seem like a double standard here to me.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 8:51:53 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Like Cumo, Obama has no clue of what he is talking about it seems . >>>This is not hyperbole. Obama traveled to Minneapolis on Monday to say magazines that hold more than 10 rounds ought to be banned. He stood in front of row after row of police officers and described magazines that hold more than 10 rounds as "weapons of war." But he did not bother explaining how law abiding citizens with only 10 rounds are to survive in a 30 round world. Obama, and those who think like him, live a theoretical existence where 10 rounds looks sufficient on paper. Therefore, they presume it must be good in reality. However, in the real world, the law abiding citizen who is limited to 10 rounds is at least 5 rounds light, and may actually be 15 rounds behind before gunfire is even exchanged.<<< When he demands that all police forces in the US, all govt forces within the US (like the Secret Service) and the DHS who want to buy machine guns for 'personal defense weapons' can only use a ten round magazine maybe I will listen to him. Until then its just more proglib nonsense based on feelgoodism and do what I say junk.
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,553 Points:269,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 8:10:58 PM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse Looks like the Nazis wanted more people to own guns. Good thing we know better.
ShanC Champion Author Rochester Posts:12,094 Points:405,845 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 7:15:34 PM Ignore ShanC Report Abuse >The violence started there AFTER the Nazis seized all the guns >from private ownership. The Nazi Party never seized all the guns from private ownership. In fact, they actually relaxed gun laws in every area except one: Jews were not allowed to manufacture or sell/purchase firearms and ammunition. These laws are public data and can easily be reviewed. The "1938 German Weapons Act" (which superseded the 1928 Germany gun laws) were as follows: 1) Citizens were required to have a permit to acquire a firearm. (Just like the 1928 law.) 2) Citizens were required to obtain a separate permit to carry a firearm. (Just like the 1928 law.) 3) Firearm ownership was restricted to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." (Just like the 1928 law.) 4) Gun manufacturers and dealers had to maintain records with information about the gun buyer and the gun's serial numbers. Those records had to be delivered to a police authority every year. (Just like the 1928 law.) 5) The legal age at which guns could be purchased was LOWERED from 20 to 18. (A lessening of restrictions by the Nazi Party.) 6) Permits were valid for 3 years, rather than 1 year - 2 years longer. (A lessening of restrictions by the Nazi Party.) 7) People who had annual hunting permits, or were government workers, or were NSDAP members were NOT subject to gun ownership restrictions. (A lessening of restrictions by the Nazi Party.) Note: Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns, not to long guns or ammunition.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,444 Points:2,229,925 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 7:01:43 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse I75at7AM - "Hey Tony - you want to compare violence to Nazi Germany? The violence started there AFTER the Nazis seized all the guns from private ownership." While Tony's statements are pretty ignorant, there was a lot of violence in Germany from the end of WWI until the Nazis took over. And the Nazi's didn't seize all the guns from private ownership. They seized them from undesirables, like the Jews, who they later slaughtered. Other than that, they slightly liberalized the previous strict gun laws.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 4:13:17 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse I75 - we will never know if she would have 'reformed his attitude' or what. Her supporting him now is dumb as all get out IMHO. In my opinion anyone who assaults a lady is subhuman anyway. Their removal from the gene pool will improve it over time. Regardless of how angry you might get I cannot think of a valid reason to strike a lady. [Edited by: flyboyUT at 2/7/2013 4:21:54 PM EST]
I75at7AM Champion Author Dayton Posts:66,529 Points:2,433,445 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 3:46:48 PM Ignore I75at7AM Report Abuse I think fly was remembering Chris Brown, pop singer who beat up Rihanna in the back seat of a limo a few years back. Ahhh, but who are we to criticize, time heals all wounds. In to her words, you can't cure stupid. What if Rihanna had been packin' heat the night in the limo? Would she have waxed Chris Brown's doors? Or would he have grabbed the weapon and turned it on her? I guess some people don't need access to guns, as the are mentally unpredictable! [Edited by: I75at7AM at 2/7/2013 3:47:07 PM EST]
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 3:36:53 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse It has been brought to my attention that I have unjustly accused Chris Rock of assault and battery. I am sorry I made that mistake and apologise for mistaking him with the other guy. I still dont like his stance on gun control but I was not fair to him.
Edger Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:40,217 Points:2,472,085 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 2:26:04 PM Ignore Edger Report Abuse 86 year old woman defends home and cat Attacker suffers grazing bullet wound, cat still okay as far as we know.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 10:58:59 AM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Its a real shame that Tony is showing such signs of old age that he cant think straight. As far as That other guy - if his girlfriend would have had the means to defend herself she wouldnt have gotten beat to a pulp and we wouldnt have to listen to his drivel anymore.
I75at7AM Champion Author Dayton Posts:66,529 Points:2,433,445 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2013 10:18:27 AM Ignore I75at7AM Report Abuse Another reason to support gun control: because Tony Bennett and Chris Rock say so Hey Tony - you want to compare violence to Nazi Germany? The violence started there AFTER the Nazis seized all the guns from private ownership. So you should shut up and sing. Chris Rock should just shut up.
greentre All-Star Author Pensacola Posts:786 Points:276,055 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 5:33:15 PM Ignore greentre Report Abuse Back to taximan007's original post of 40 reasons... #1 & 2 "Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, and Chicago cops need guns." and "Washington DC’s low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis’ high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control." Many are making a point that these areas have such crime because the weapons flow in from surrounding areas. Does this hold true for California with the highest number of gun laws on the west coast in relation to the bordering states? Gun laws by state. California definitely has the highest gun crime rate for the entire U.S. according to the FBI. FBI Stats. I do understand this state has a higher population than the surrounding states, but this leads to fewer gun dealers in the surrounding states. FFL dealers in Nevada - 566; Arizona - 1483; Oregon - 1539; California - 2209. Nevada has the longest border with California and the fewest FFL licensees. (Remember: FFLs are not limited to gun shops only. It is possible for individuals to possess Federal Firearms Licenses for gun collecting, etc. and these individuals are included in these numbers.) Just an observation...
ShanC Champion Author Rochester Posts:12,094 Points:405,845 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 5:10:19 PM Ignore ShanC Report Abuse >The only purpose of guns is to kill people This is technically incorrect. They have many purposes. However, they were invented and are designed to kill people.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 4:53:56 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Really good video imbedded in thisarticle - it deserves a listen. . >>>"Your own history is replete with high school rifle teams, Boy Scouts, marksmanship merit badges, you could buy rifles at hardware stores, you could order them, mail order, delivered to your home, your country was awash in readily available firearms and amunition and yet in your past you did not have mass school shootings. Other people have already expressed the question, what changed? It was not that the availability of guns suddenly exploded and increased, it was actually decreased, what changed is societal decay."<<< The man hit the real problem exactly. It is a terrible shame that Marty and the other gunophobes will not evel liten to people like this.
greentre All-Star Author Pensacola Posts:786 Points:276,055 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 4:45:41 PM Ignore greentre Report Abuse Just an observation: Marty says "I'm standing up for life." Obama says "if there is even one thing we can do to reduce this violence, if there is even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try." So, in that vein; * A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone "almost certainly would have been killed" if they "had not used a gun for protection." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard." * Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders. Of these, about 436,000 or only 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun. (4,904,000 violent crimes commitied WITHOUT a firearm) * Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year. * A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year. * A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found: • 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim" • 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun" • 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim" How many lives per year are SAVED by the use or display of, or at a minimum the fear by a criminal that the intended victim is armed with a gun?
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:43:18 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse oilpan - Marty sez he has me on iggy and wont read any of my posts nor read any of my links. Guess he doesnt like being the receipent of the truth. But feel free to copy the post, put it under your name and ask him the same thing. Sure would be fun to see what he has to say. I think he and michiggy are somehow related - cant face faces adn discuss things - only answer is to loudly proclaim that they have anyone who doesnt agree on 'iggy'. ;-)
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,053 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:37:46 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Hey Marty will you answer the questions I posed"? Guess not.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,118 Points:2,185,160 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:14:35 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "The only purpose of guns is to kill people" No more then stating the only purpose for ethyl alcohol is to get people falling down drunk. Yes in both cases they are very effective for the purpose described, but that is not necessarily it's only or even it's main purpose in either case...
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,118 Points:2,185,160 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 3:10:23 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse I don't hunt, yet I personally own 6 weapons (1 Shotgun, 3 Rifles, 2 Hand guns). I use my weapons to target practice and for home defense. I (being one of the 80%) believe that gun ownership is guaranteed byt the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, and no where in the Amendment does it state that the right to bear arms is only valid if you are a hunter...
Edger Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:40,217 Points:2,472,085 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2013 2:58:07 PM Ignore Edger Report Abuse U.S. Gun Owners Outnumbered Hunters by 5 to 1 in 2011 Too many MSM, Government folk and the Prez himself relate the Second Amendment to hunting and maybe some sport shooting. "There were 13.7 million hunters in the United States over age 16 -- 12.7 million of whom used rifles, shotguns or handguns for hunting, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service." "That means hunters constituted only 15.9 to 18.1 percent of the estimated 70-80 million gun owners in the U.S. in 2011 -- the latest year for which statistics are available." I wonder what the other 80% of gun owners think of gun ownership?
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,860 Points:1,198,890 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 3:22:29 PM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse I agree, too bad she didn't have the time to empty 3 or 4 rounds into each of them, 2 in center mass, 1 in the head. [Edited by: jdhelm at 2/4/2013 3:23:20 PM EST]
Edger Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:40,217 Points:2,472,085 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 3:12:16 PM Ignore Edger Report Abuse Fly, she's alive and still has time to pickup some pointers on self defense. Too many Americans will never get that chance.
PopcornPirate Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,908 Points:1,171,505 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2013 9:24:15 AM Ignore PopcornPirate Report Abuse Good Shooting MOM....
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 4:54:25 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Edger the only mistake she made is she didnt shoot him more than once and keep shooting at the others.
Edger Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:40,217 Points:2,472,085 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 3:10:30 PM Ignore Edger Report Abuse Home invasion suspect arrested after woman opens fire Mother and son are ok. One criminal, not so good.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,444 Points:2,229,925 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 7:11:44 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse MiddletownMarty - "Most common fallacies presented by gun-nuts:" And the gun controller equivalents. "Nirvana fallacy: you're not going to prevent everything so why bother doing anything?" Do something, anything, even things that have never worked, just so it looks like we're doing something. "Oversimplification: You won't accomplish anything by banning guns." We can prevent violence by banning guns. "Strawman: You want to take all my guns!!!!" You want to kill people! "Red Herring: People die these other ways, why don't you outlaw cigarettes!" The only purpose of guns is to kill people. "False Equivalency: People die just as often in car accidents, why don't we ban cars? I just heard: you don't blame the dog when a dog kills someone, you blame the owner." The War on Drugs isn't working, but that's different. "Arguing from an anecdote: I once knew an old lady who saved herself big bad man once using a gun." Newtown proves that we need to ban assault weapons and large capacity magazines. But we should still let crazy people take care of themselves.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,444 Points:2,229,925 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 7:07:36 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse MiddletownMarty - "If there were no guns to steal, none would be stolen." Criminals would still get them. "My point is that at some point those illegal guns were possessions of "law-abiding" citizens." Not necessarily. They may have been stolen from the police or the military. "There's no way that every illegally-possessed gun was acquired by stealing it. Theft (and some of that unreported), yes, but also private sales and sales at less-than-above-board gun shows." Not much. "I'm standing up for life." Yes, let's make things safer for criminals. And more dangerous for the rest of us. "What's wrong with making it harder for one person to kill other people?" What's wrong with making it harder for people to defend themselves against criminals?
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,860 Points:1,198,890 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 8:48:14 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin
Guitar_Man Champion Author Colorado Springs Posts:8,526 Points:126,430 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 3:41:49 AM Ignore Guitar_Man Report Abuse I find it utterly hysterical that these same politicians want to pass even MORE laws to force people to do and not do certain things... Yet they IGNORE their OWN law that requires them to pass a budget! (Yep, it's in the US Constitution...a yearly budget is MANDATORY...from the President to the Senate to the House.) Same old, "Do as I say, not as I do" crap out of Washington!!
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,053 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 3:32:18 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Hey Marty will you answer the questions I posed"? You already know the answer to that: Never. "Daurel" said it best: "He will deflect or just ignore any question he does not want to answer and do his best to make you the "Bad Guy"" Daurel gets it! [Edited by: oilpan4 at 2/1/2013 3:34:34 AM EST]
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 10:45:28 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Hey Marty will you answer the questions I posed?
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,053 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 9:17:36 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "If there were no guns to steal, none would be stolen. My point is that at some point those illegal guns were possessions of "law-abiding" citizens. There's no way that every illegally-possessed gun was acquired by stealing it. Theft (and some of that unreported), yes, but also private sales and sales at less-than-above-board gun shows". Criminals didn't steal legally bought heroin, crack, weed, shrooms, illegal untaxed moon shine whisky from law abiding people. Making something illegal doesn't stop criminals from getting it. Theft is just one of the tools they use to acquire what they want.
Lucchese Champion Author Oakland Posts:3,135 Points:129,015 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:56:15 PM Ignore Lucchese Report Abuse Marty >> ".. the person who privately sells a firearm to whoever ... commits a violation ..." What about Marty's violations of English grammar ? That should read - -- ".. the person who privately sells a firearm to whomever ..."
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,553 Points:269,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:50:55 PM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse Most common fallacies presented by gun-nuts: Nirvana fallacy: you're not going to prevent everything so why bother doing anything? Oversimplification: You won't accomplish anything by banning guns. Strawman: You want to take all my guns!!!! Red Herring: People die these other ways, why don't you outlaw cigarettes! False Equivalency: People die just as often in car accidents, why don't we ban cars? I just heard: you don't blame the dog when a dog kills someone, you blame the owner. Arguing from an anecdote: I once knew an old lady who saved herself big bad man once using a gun.
flyboyUT Champion Author Utah Posts:22,848 Points:1,011,635 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:18:27 PM Ignore flyboyUT Report Abuse Marty says - "I'm standing up for life." Acid test --- Marty what is your position on abortion? . . Then Marty says - "And the person who privately sells a firearm to whoever shows up with the most cash commits a moral violation of the worst sort if the purchaser is (or becomes) a criminal." So if you advertize your car for sale in the local paper and sell it to someone who seems like a ok person and they get drugged up and drink till they are legally drunk then use the car to kill a family just who is morally responsible Marty? . . Last but not least - "Other weapons don't have the same capacity for carnage as do firearms." Marty how many people died on 9/11/01 because people used the high capacity boxcutter knives?
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,553 Points:269,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 5:52:01 PM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse "Here we go again, marty, with the Left wing's point of view, always standing up for the criminal and taking the rights of the honest citizen who follows the laws." I'm standing up for life. "That if a criminal does find a way to purchase a fire arm other then through a license dealer, the criminal still committed state and felony violations, not the legal citizen." Firearms are purchased privately and at gun shows all the time. And the person who privately sells a firearm to whoever shows up with the most cash commits a moral violation of the worst sort if the purchaser is (or becomes) a criminal. "If there were not one fire arm at all there would still be criminals and they would still be using other weapons like baseball bats, hands, knives, etc so use some common sense and realize the problem is the mind set of a criminal." Other weapons don't have the same capacity for carnage as do firearms. What's wrong with making it harder for one person to kill other people? "Marty just wants police officers and the military to be carrying fire arms." I do. Police and soldiers certainly do have their problems, but they submit to background checks and psychological tests. [Edited by: MiddletownMarty at 1/31/2013 5:53:40 PM EST]
sissurf Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:19,878 Points:1,675,350 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 4:15:52 PM Ignore sissurf Report Abuse Marty just wants police officers and the military to be carrying fire arms. As if the military and police only have angels on their force and don't have their own problems. So what if only Police Officers and the Military were able to carry guns will crime stop?! Police officer arrested on rape charges Updated: Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 3:57 PM EST Published : Thursday, 31 Jan 2013, 3:56 PM EST Ahoskie, N.C. (WAVY) - An Ahoskie police officer is behind bars on charges of rape and indecent liberties with a child. According to Troy Fitzhugh with the Ahoskie Police Department, agents with the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation were contacted following a criminal complaint about Ahoskie police officer Andres Jorge Snape, Jr. Snape was placed on a two-week administrative leave with pay, and in that time, the NCSBI had finished their investigation into the criminal complaint. Fitzhugh said Snape was then fired, arrested Jan. 30 in Hertford County and charged with seven counts of statutory rape, seven counts of indecent liberties with child and seven counts of statutory sexual offenses. Snape's first court appearance will be Feb. 1 and a $1 million bond has been set. Stay with WAVY.com for more on this developing story.
sissurf Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:19,878 Points:1,675,350 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 3:10:54 PM Ignore sissurf Report Abuse Here we go again, marty, with the Left wing's point of view, always standing up for the criminal and taking the rights of the honest citizen who follows the laws. You are missing the point. That if a criminal does find a way to purchase a fire arm other then through a license dealer, the criminal still committed state and felony violations, not the legal citizen. If there were not one fire arm at all there would still be criminals and they would still be using other weapons like baseball bats, hands, knives, etc so use some common sense and realize the problem is the mind set of a criminal. Look at how many people have been killed in mass murders from firebugs (arson). Have you outlawed gasoline, beer bottles, matches, or anything else that blows up?!
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,553 Points:269,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 9:04:18 AM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse Perhaps believing one needs a gun is a precursor to becoming wacko.
Tru2psu2 Champion Author Winston-Salem Posts:14,476 Points:1,555,630 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:34:30 AM Ignore Tru2psu2 Report Abuse If we really want to stop the problem we have to understand how these wackos get to be wackos....and correct that...
MiddletownMarty Champion Author Connecticut Posts:17,553 Points:269,345 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:24:25 AM Ignore MiddletownMarty Report Abuse If there were no guns to steal, none would be stolen. My point is that at some point those illegal guns were possessions of "law-abiding" citizens. There's no way that every illegally-possessed gun was acquired by stealing it. Theft (and some of that unreported), yes, but also private sales and sales at less-than-above-board gun shows.
jdhelm Champion Author Iowa Posts:11,860 Points:1,198,890 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:22:23 AM Ignore jdhelm Report Abuse taxi, I have to admit, I hadn't read your list until just now - great list.
sissurf Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:19,878 Points:1,675,350 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:39:48 AM Ignore sissurf Report Abuse "From whom do criminals acquire guns?" Where do criminals get anything? Do you really think it's just the guns they are stealing? Have you ever seen a crime and did nothing about it? How many chances did you say, you want us to forgive your nephew was it, he's just going down the wrong path and needs someone like you to direct him in the right direction? When is enough a enough when it comes to those that have no decency for honest law abiding citizens? When will a child or an adult learn their lesson? How many chances should we give the thug? Yea, blame us law abiding citizens, that sure seems logical!
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,053 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 1:14:35 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "From whom do criminals acquire guns"? From people like me, because of the state of newyork I cant take any guns on vacation in maine because I might break one of their stupid laws. So they get left locked up in the safe which doesn't mean they will really be safe.